Discussion Topic |
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Heh!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Thanks for channeling Ron.
Mormon family ranchers illegally grazing their cattle on Federal Land that has been declared habitat for the endangered desert tortoise.
In addition to that, the land is hard-core desert and has been over-grazed and abused for the last 150 years.
A huge bill for unpaid Federal taxes.
Looks like an open & shut case!
The Mormon ranchers coast to an easy win!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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“Who is the trespasser here? Who is the trespasser on this land? Is the United States trespassing on Clark County, Nevada, land? Or is it Cliven Bundy who is trespassing on Clark County, Nevada, land? Who’s the trespasser?”
Go squat in Yosemite and when the rangers come for you, tell them something like this. Let us know how it works out.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=71952&tn=0
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Madbolter
Big Wall climber
I used to be hard
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Regardless of opinion on this matter, the establishment of "First Amendment Zones" is bullsh#t.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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What happened to Ron?
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dirtbag
climber
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I also blame wolves for this mess.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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dirtbag, dirtbag, dirtbag-------wild horses, coyotes, bears, & cougars in Newbada
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wolves in Idontno, Montluna, & Wyldroaming.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2014 - 09:02pm PT
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Issues like 'zoning speech' are why it matters who gets appointed to the Supreme Court.
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dirtbag
climber
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Fritz, are you so naive that you don't believe the Feds have been helicoptering wolves into NV?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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He musta painted those pics on one of his record-setting POTUS vacations.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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he got he eyes right on the selfie.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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he did say he was The Decider....
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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LOL! Thanks for picking up the slack! I saw that story but wasn't thinking "OMG RANDY WEAVER", or "WACO"...I was thinking it might make an episode or 2 of "WHEN COWS GO BAD".
Of course, if you happen to have read teh comments under the article, you would have thought Stalin had moved to take over the state or some such....
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Wow Khanom. You went from full on Lib to conservative just by trying to be a productive farmer. How is this quote to be taken?
Khanom said: "Bottom line:
The intersection between "conservative" pro-legality and "liberal" pro-government intervention has produced a toxic all-encompassing controlling government that neither respects individual rights nor supports them in any way. A multi-tude of special and self-interests with little or no regard for common sense.
It's the worst of all worlds. We're fuked!"
I'm not saying that this rancher wasn't given the bullshit run around by the bureaucrats, but he doesn't have a leg to stand of if that story is correct.
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Dal Maxvill
Social climber
Granite City, Illinois
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What right are we losing? The right to trespass and squat on land that doesn't belong to us?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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And why let it go this long?
It's a bitch, either way.
Frontier justice is needed.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
And why do they need three million bucks to round up some scrubs?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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He Bomz, he scores! And 23 Skidoo-doo follows that.
What does a tortoise stampede resemble?
Feds in action.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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The EPA, the Endangered Species Act, Eminent Domain are being abused. The Federal Gov't is overstepping its bounds. Plain/simple.
The whole purpose of BLM is being abused.
EDIT: He's on Fox News right now....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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I would ask people to not make this a partisan issue either. It is about Feds putting in more controls on lands that are supposed to be free-access areas.
This guy in Nevada is just grazing his cattle on BLM land. What if this happened at the Shuteye Ridge (which is also BLM land)?
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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lol you watch fox...
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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This is tough situation. Cliven Bundy has called the bluff, and it ain't working out. If I were the judge at this point, let Bundy go uncharged for back-charges as long as he pays forward or gets out of there. I feel for this guy and want the best for him.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jesse, the problem I have is why the Fed gov't is charging people and excising fees from people to have their cattle graze.
I'd think that the cattle does more good than harm to the land. The only reason the Fed is charging is greed to pay for a questionable 'save the desert tortiose' program, where the Feds. themselves are killing tortoises.
Maybe the Feds should pick on the urban developers, but I'm sure the single farmer is an easier target.
EDIT: lol you watch fox...
Did you have any doubt, Brah? Maybe you should too, you might actually hear what the rancher has to say and get some real viewpoints.
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Madbolter
Big Wall climber
I used to be hard
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The Feds didn't care about the death and habitat destruction of the desert tortoise when they did a bunch of roadwork in Joshua Tree National Park in the late 1990s/early 2000s. They killed a lot of them to widen the road for motor home-driving tourons. Tortoises are a red herring.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Didn't they widen for the climber-tourons too?
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dirtbag
climber
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Excellent job, Healyje.
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John M
climber
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He has every right to graze his cattle on public land for free. The feds just get in the way. We should be allowed to do whatever we want to on our land. Thats what public lands mean. Its our land.
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WBraun
climber
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They want all cattle rounded up standing in gmo fed feed lots to get fat to be eaten by stupid Americans.
Thus Americans will become fatter and stupider then ever.
This sells more stupid junk that stupid American corporate materialism survives on.
This stupid vicious circle must never be stopped otherwise there is no "America" ...
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Applying a Laissez-faire overlay to western lands owned by the federal government seems like a rip-off to other Americans. Then why can't I set up a lumber milling operation on national forest land and just start selling lumber to passerby's?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Why is so much of the land in Nevada owned by the Federal Government?
Is it really necessary to tie up all that land? If it is, why? What's the government doing with it?
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Too much cattle-grazing does damage the land. That's why the feds try to put some limits in and ask for fees to help with maintenance.
He makes money off those cattle. Do we want to let anyone make money however they want on any public land?
Since it's my land too, and I'd rather it not have cattle on it, can I make him move them so I can put in a motocross course?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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OH Schist!
Are some of you people actually believing that cattle-overgrazing improves desert land??
A lot of the western U.S. was not desert until Ranchers turned cows loose on it in the late 1800's.
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John M
climber
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Then why can't I set up a lumber milling operation on national forest land and just start selling lumber to passerby's?
exactly !!@#!#!!! Thats my plan, but those greedy bastards want us to pay for it. But its our land and I should be able to do whatever I want on it without those greedy Feds getting in my way on my land. Logging is more healthy for the land then just leaving it to burn. But those socialist pigs will just let it grow until it burns. That way they protect their government fire fighting jobs. If they would let us log it, then we would have more good jobs and less fires.
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Madbolter
Big Wall climber
I used to be hard
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TMJesse
Didn't they widen for the climber-tourons too?
TMJesse, no. Actually we climbers tried to fight the road improvements.
Besides the damage to the tortoise habitat, there was a loss of many turnouts that made hikes much further, along with removal of some of the park's largest Joshua Trees and general changing of the flavor of the park.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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If the Feds aren't going to do anything productive with that land, they should sell it to that rancher. He at least has a purpose for it.
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John M
climber
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A lot of the western U.S. was not desert until Ranchers turned cows loose on it in the late 1800's
there you have it. Cattle grazing helps create more desert tortoise habitat. what could be wrong with that?
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:00am PT
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Glad to hear some stupid American climber-tourons fought against road improvements.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:15am PT
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Chaz! Re your easy question!
Why is so much of the land in Nevada owned by the Federal Government?
Because no-one could homestead, ranch, or mine that property under the Homestead Act or Mining laws, and last long enough/make a living and end up owning the land. A lot of the private land on your Nevada map was given to the railroad companies by the Federal Government in the 1860's as an incentive for building a railroad through the middle of no-where.
The simple truth is: Goverment land in the Western States is land that was so worthless, or remote that no-one homesteaded, mined, or otherwise worked a deal with the government to gain ownership, before the Department of Interior and the Department of Agriculture took over ownership of those lands in the early 1900's.
Your entrepernarial anchestors didn't grab it before 1900, and it belongs to all of us now!
Got it! We all own the shist lands now!
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:16am PT
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thats right. we all own it so I should be able to do what I want on it without the government interfering.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:19am PT
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Sorry John, we own it all together. You can't take it for yourself.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:20am PT
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We don't own it. The government owns it.
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:25am PT
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Its my land. I should be able to do whatever I want on it. besides.. cattle grazing and lumbering do more good then harm. They create jobs. They keep the forest from burning down and according to Fritz, they make more desert tortoise habitat. Which probably means those studies saying the tortoise is endangered are false. They just haven't looked in the right places. You know government people. They can't do anything right. If they would let me run the BLM I would get it straightened out in no time. We could have cheaper beef prices and less forest fires.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:26am PT
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The Nevada Cattlemen's Association is not even taking a position on this, and the are anything but bleeding heart liberals. I suspect other ranchers do not like to see Bundy getting a free ride.
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:26am PT
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the government is of the people, by the people and for the people. The government is the people. I'm the people, so I own it.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:29am PT
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John M writes:
"I'm the people, so I own it."
No you don't.
Here's how you can tell.
If I'm part owner, I should be able to sell my share, and cash out.
But we can't do that, because we don't actually own any of it.
The government owns it.
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:32am PT
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then we should overthrow the government, because that is our land and we should be allowed to do whatever we want on it. I trust cattle ranchers and lumber people more then I trust the government to do whats right.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:34am PT
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So the only answer to an over-reaching government is no government at all?
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:36am PT
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I did not say that. we should take back our land. The government should run the military and leave the rest alone. Blue was right. that land was for free access. I should be able to do whatever I want on it without having to pay anyone because that is my land. why should they get to charge to use our land and then waste that money on paying for illegals to live for free so that the illegals can have more babies which we have to pay for and then they take over America?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:39am PT
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The government could generate some real money by selling off a big bunch of BLM land, and save money every year by having less land to manage.
There's no reason the Federal Government needs 85% of Nevada.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:43am PT
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John M has gone full retard
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:47am PT
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Pay off some of the national debt by selling unused public land? What a concept! only trouble is, they would give away rather than sell to the highest bidder. The USA is far from "broke."
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:48am PT
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piss off fluffy. I'm just being bad ass !!!@#!!@#
Don't you love America?
Are you one of those obama fascists? I bet you are.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:48am PT
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I worry that some of you are taking this thread seriously.
It was a joke from the start, and if you don't understand the joke???
--------
I do worry about you, and your slight-grip on reality.
Best Wishes!
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:50am PT
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Stop being a Hater Fritz.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:55am PT
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:56am PT
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Now I get it! Next time I find a cow trampling MY wilderness, I can slaughter it and eat it fer dinner! Now, that is proper use of MY land!
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:56am PT
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Fluffy.. you are just a hater.. probably voted for Obama.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:59am PT
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"Now I get it! Next time I find a cow trampling MY wilderness, I can slaughter it and eat it fer dinner!"
I don't see why not.
Non-native invasive species are pests and varmints. Anyone with a hunting license should be able to harvest them, on public lands.
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 01:03am PT
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Jessie.. you don't seem to understand the libertarian way. The cow doesn't belong to you. The land does. Leave the cow alone and do whatever you want to the land and let everyone else do what they want to the land. If you want to cut down some trees, then do it, but do it in a good way.
of course if you dig a big pit and build a fire in the bottom of it because you are doing what you want on your land, and the cow falls in, then you probably shouldn't let it go to waste.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 01:07am PT
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I don't see an difference at all between a free-range cow wandering around on public lands and a farm-raised trout planted in a public stream.
Except I don't normally eat fish.
They're both there for me to catch and eat. Nevada Rancher volunteered to stock the BLM Lands with steak-on-the-hoof, for the public to harvest.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Apr 10, 2014 - 01:08am PT
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Chaz, reading your point/counterpoint to anything makes me dizzy.
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John M
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 02:03am PT
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in case anyone was confused
I do not believe that Fritz is a hater. Or fluffy.. okay.. maybe fluffy. It was all a joke on a boring night with major back pain…
good night y'all..
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crankster
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 09:55am PT
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Ron will be ok once the study is completed.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 10, 2014 - 10:26am PT
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you know what. f*#k this sh#t. It's a bright and sunny day. A big blue sky.
I now own that sky. all of it. don't look at it (or if you do pay me royalties).
and make your guberment owned cows quit farting.
The page before this one cracked me up.
Well played John!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 10, 2014 - 10:29am PT
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John M. re: I do not believe that Fritz is a hater. Or fluffy.. okay.. maybe fluffy. It was all a joke on a boring night with major back pain…
good night y'all..
No umbrage taken, but then I was in on it. Bet the Mormom Ranchers win.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 10, 2014 - 10:37am PT
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The comments section of that thing is comedy gold. Like a moron pretzel factory as these dipshits twist themselves into knots trying to justify a guy stealing public grazing for years.
It's like a bevy of Blurrings all in one place. A murder of dunces. A herd of hillbillies. A clatch of Cletuses. A group of Gomers, a family of fukwits.
"But his family was stealin that grass, I mean grazing that land, before the BLM existed."
Well, I guess you'll be ceding your house and property to the Native Americans then if "preemptive rights" is you angle.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 10:47am PT
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It's OK to leave your ropes hanging unattended for months in the National Parks, though.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:04am PT
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That dude has more kids than most people have cattle!
His best quote: "I fired the federal government." BwaHaHaHaHaHa!
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:09am PT
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Le Pirate is doing a phenomenal job representing my stance in this horse and donkey show..
Liqueur jockey now that's funny!
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:25am PT
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You went from full on Lib
Uh Bill? Maybe you missed that part where our boy Khanom was full-monty in the RunPull "Revolution".
Last I checked Ron Paul is far, far from being a liberal.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:46am PT
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Don't Taze ME Bro!
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:50am PT
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I still blame the wolves.
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GuapoVino
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:57am PT
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Wasn't Romney and Ryan going to sell off a lot of public lands? They might have even sold the land in question here. If that had happened then the new owners may have kicked him off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kPi6M0rIco
This kind of reminds me of a rancher that used to graze cattle on Padre Island in Texas. At one time it was privately owned. Someone used to have a ranch on it and raise cattle. It was a pretty sweet setup - covered with grass and didn't need any fences. The owner and his son sold the island to the govt in the 1930's but retained grazing and mineral rights and was able to continue using it for ranching. When the son died in the 1970's those rights terminated and it became a National Seashore.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:58am PT
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Jesse said: "Now I get it! Next time I find a cow trampling MY wilderness, I can slaughter it and eat it fer dinner! Now, that is proper use of MY land!"
I'm eating at Jesses place. He'll have lots of extra fair trade free range meat since Werner is all veggie like. Man, this topic and this thread was made for Ron Anderson. BTW NWO, there is a process and oversight. I agree with you that the gov is getting too big, too intrusive, but this guy has no more right to graze his cows there for free than my mom would.
Non-issue. Those are some interesting comments in that section under that article though. Wow.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
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Captain Reporter at 3:15 "They tazed my cousin just because we had a couple questions."
It's clear to anyone how aggro these protesters are.
If I was a BLM dude, I'd be pretty worried about what these people are capable of.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:36pm PT
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Here's our friend Alex Jones, who starts his broadcast with:
"Over 250 armed Feds, with armored vehicles, helicopters and drones, are massing, to kick the open range grazer off the federal "quote", land."
I guess I missed the 250 armed Feds, armored vehicles, helicopters and drones in the video. He also says "At gunpoint". I saw tazers, dogs and about 20 (maybe) officers? He also says they will arrest "anyone that holds up a sign". I saw signs, but no arrests......
This dude will say anything.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:41pm PT
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Survival, ya dummy, that's The New World Order Math.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:41pm PT
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The individual Tazed was a 57 year old woman. BLM brought out a backhoe to bury the killed cows on the spot. Killing mother cows and leaving the orphaned calves to die. Real "humanitarian," they are. Where is PETA when they might actually serve a real purpose?
Addressing the "custom and practice" in the West, as pertaining to acquisition of "rights." I'm not anywhere close to being a lawyer, but my understanding of both water and grazing rights, is they accrue to the first appropriator who "makes beneficial use thereof." This is the basis of all adjudicated water rights in Colorado, Wyoming, and to my knowledge, the other western states (Nevada included). How this affects grazing rights--I haven't a clue. I don't have any "public lands" upon which I operate. My ranch is 100% privately owned real estate, as demonstrated by the ghastly property taxes I pay every year. The issue here is lands which were free range before the inception of the BLM are also subject to "Grandfathered" appropriation. The huge amount of otherwise "worthless" land "owned" by the Federal Government also impoverishes the various counties by being exempt from property taxes. This is land, which not that many years ago, would have sold for $1.00/ acre, and had no buyers waiting in line. But--somebody's gonna' get either hurt or killed in this faceoff.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:57pm PT
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^^^^ so true
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Apr 10, 2014 - 02:09pm PT
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Addressing the "custom and practice" in the West, as pertaining to acquisition of "rights." I'm not anywhere close to being a lawyer, but my understanding of both water and grazing rights, is they accrue to the first appropriator who "makes beneficial use thereof." This is the basis of all adjudicated water rights in Colorado, Wyoming, and to my knowledge, the other western states (Nevada included). How this affects grazing rights--I haven't a clue. I don't have any "public lands" upon which I operate. My ranch is 100% privately owned real estate, as demonstrated by the ghastly property taxes I pay every year. The issue here is lands which were free range before the inception of the BLM are also subject to "Grandfathered" appropriation. The huge amount of otherwise "worthless" land "owned" by the Federal Government also impoverishes the various counties by being exempt from property taxes. This is land, which not that many years ago, would have sold for $1.00/ acre, and had no buyers waiting in line. But--somebody's gonna' get either hurt or killed in this faceoff.
You better hope you are wrong. Because if you are right, then me and my indian brothers, who were grazing before any o' you whites showed up, are going to graze on YOUR property. Because the Feds sold the land to you, or allowed you to stake claims, does not change the fact that we came first. The stealing of our grazing rights on your land, and selling it to you does not negate our right! Doesn't matter if you paid tax, it was illegal in the first place.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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The pop-ups on this site are amusing. When I click on the "health care" thread, I get a pop-up for health insurance. When I clicked on this thread, I got a pop-up for criminal defense counsel.
John
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 10, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
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Ken-
Nope. It doesn't work that way. Your "ancestors" did not occupy and make improvements to the land, since they were nomadic. Appropriation of water involves building diversion structures and irrigation ditch systems. Your ancestors simply were hunters and gatherers, not residents utilizing the grazing for domesticated livestock. The bison were transients through the land. The closest I can find would be the Anasazi, or "Ancient Ones" in the Mesa Verde/Chaco Culture. They actually built irrigation reservoirs, grew crops, and had domesticated turkeys. But...you'll need to talk with "Uncle," since HE's appropriated that land...after the Ancient Ones departed 900 years ago. It's now all National Parks. (Mesa Verde N/P., and Chaco Culture national park). You. LOSE.
P.S. You also need to consider the language of the treaties the Native Americans "signed," which forfeited their claims to this land, in exchange for the reservations. Yeah, it was not a good business deal on their parts, but the alternative was worse: extinction.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
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Glad to see they are finally removing that freeloading pos and his cows from public lands.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Apr 10, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
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I'm gonna start slaughtering livestock on trails. Damn pack horses. I need some more glue anyway.
And Ken, we don't need to consider Native American land rights. They're a conquered people.
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Dal Maxvill
Social climber
Granite City, Illinois
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:07pm PT
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Addressing the "custom and practice" in the West, as pertaining to acquisition of "rights." I'm not anywhere close to being a lawyer, but my understanding of both water and grazing rights, is they accrue to the first appropriator who "makes beneficial use thereof."
If you occupied and improved your neighbor's property, you could eventually obtain title by adverse possession. The federal lands are immune to adverse possession, so this guy has no unwritten rights to that property.
However, if he starts moving on to your privately owned land, you'd better start shootin' them cows.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
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Bend over Brokendown Rodger, here I come, Obama's Stormtrooper of Death
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
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Your "ancestors" did not occupy and make improvements to the land, since they were nomadic.
Not true. Read about Anasazi and Mogollon cultures. What about all the pueblo peoples that built towns and grew crops, pretty much year round? Mound builders were crop growers and irrigators. So were numerous central American cultures.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
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Glad to see they are finally removing that freeloading pos and his cows from public lands.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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Survival--
You didn't read all my post, since I made that exact statement. The Anasazi were exceptional in that the were actually sedentary agriculturalists. But they abandoned the land in ~1100 AD. There were no sedentary agriculturalists in Nevada until whitey showed up.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:53pm PT
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Brokedown, my post did refer to Anasazi, but also multiple other crop growing cultures.
None of this however, justifies Joe public thinking that the land belongs to his cows in perpetuity.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 10, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
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Look on the bright side, one more opportunity to exterminate some of these "sovereign citizen" vermin.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
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These threads are awesome just because I get linked to "news" websites that I never knew existed that are unequivocally amazing. Patdollard.com Theblaze.com This sh#t is mind blowing.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:16pm PT
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There were certainly other agricultural societies among the native Americans, but we're discussing the western USA, not the Mississippi river mound builders. And not the central Americans either since they aren't relevant to this so-called "discussion/slander fest."
My problem here is not whether the rancher is right or wrong, but with the tactics involved going out to simply slaughter the cows which are privately owned, and on the other hand letting the burros run and reproduce out of control while devastating the land. There are a lot fewer of the cows than burros, and the cows are periodically "harvested" by rounding up and selling some of them for the food chain.
My problem is with the concept of being the biggest and baddest bully in the neighborhood...with guns, helicopters, and tazers being used on 57 year old women.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:17pm PT
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The fight began when Bundy stopped paying the Bureau of Land Management’s grazing fees in 1993, arguing in court filings that he had no obligation to pay the agency because his Mormon ancestors had worked the land decades before the agency was formed.
That's a solid leak proof argument. Considering "his Mormon ancestors" also settled Las Vegas. All Mormons whose families have been in Lost Wages for 150 years are now exempt from LV property taxes.
Bundy's been getting a free ride for 20 years. I say make him pay up or off to jail.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
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My problem here is not whether the rancher is right or wrong, but with the tactics involved going out to simply slaughter the cows which are privately owned, and on the other hand letting the burros run and reproduce out of control while devastating the land.
Rodger, somehow I don't think this actually started with feds just showing up and blasting cows, do you? Wasn't there something said about the rancher not paying his "feed your cattle on our land fee"?
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ECF
Big Wall climber
So Far East I might as well be dead
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:24pm PT
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Sorry, but I'm not reading five pages of partisan bullsh#t.
Let me freebase this story for you:
Rancher is clearly in the wrong
Gov has no right to restrict the first amendment ANYWHERE in the USA.
People are using this as if it was a righteous cause, it isn't.
But the truth is this has nothing to do with cows, tortoise, or fees.
It is about total control of the vast wild areas of Nevada and Oregon.
They have a plan, and they want everyone out of these areas.
If it was about money, they have already spent more than they were due.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:24pm PT
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There are a lot fewer of the cows than burros
Prove it. Guy has 900 head on the plots in question.
They have a plan, and they want everyone out of these areas.
Ah yes, the nefarious "they". Nobody can tell us whoTF "they" are, but "they" have a master plan. Maybe "they" are the illuminati, or the Masons, or the NWO, or the League of Shadows, or maybe a secret cabal of George Soros and Rupert Murdoch, with a sidecar of PootyPutin.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:25pm PT
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Sorry for the OT diversion, but I just drove from Reno to Springdale, Utah across highway 50, and returned by driving from Las Vegas up to Fallon/Fernley on hwy 95. Holy sh#t, Nevada sucks. What a backwoods shithole that state is. And I should know, being from Texas.
Carry on...
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
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Isn't Hwy50 dubbed the "Loneliest Hwy in America" or somesuch?
Seems like I went on that going to Ibex years ago.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:38pm PT
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Isn't Hwy50 dubbed the "Loneliest Hwy in America" or somesuch?
If not it should be. That's a damn long stretch of nothing.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
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Not really up for us to decide what laws, rules, fees apply to us and which we may ignore. If you don't want to pay to graze your herds like everyone else maybe you're in the wrong business. If you still insist on breaking the law expect the usual repercussions.
In other words grow the f*uck up ya big baby.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 10, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
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Isn't Hwy50 dubbed the "Loneliest Hwy in America" or somesuch? Blah Blah Blah
It is a beautiful road though. I've seen wild Mustangs galloping through the sagebrush.
6 is MUCH lonelier now that three of the "towns" have died. Nearly 200 miles between gas stations. You are warned.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
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Look, let's get our facts straight.
First off, his real name isn't Cliven Bundy, it's Dklibin Al-Elbundi and he isn't mormon, but a [eastern] Libyan muslim. The whole affair is simply a continuation of the Bush administration's FDA 'Easy as she goes' operation to try and stop the smuggling of cows into Mexico in order to raise funds to support Al-Qaeda attacks (an American was recently killed in Spain during the running of the bulls by one of these fundamentalist steers). Their targets are hastily established and easily stampeded cia outposts the world over and - the most sacred cow of all (Allāhu Akbar) - the Bluffdale NSA data center.
And think about it, the whole 'native amormocan' / Tea Party cover is easy to see through (clue: mormons don't drink tea) and the whole BLM fees / tax martyr deal (martyrdom - it's part of the Islamic connection). If you need further proof then think about his ranch's oh-so-coincidental proximity to Yucca Mountain - what's he been hiding there? We're just lucky they moved in on him before he could set off a dirty cow bomb the strip.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 08:44pm PT
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Looks like all the supertopo idiots here are always wrong.
Too Bad "Ron" isn't here to tell you idiots himself .....
“It is not about turtles it is about water.
There are developers working for military contractors that want that land and water for mining weapons grade minerals for industry…
they want to sell the land by the highway for real estate development because it’s close to I-15
and the Bundy’s have been refusing to sell what they actually own directly for over 20 years.
Many buyers sent me out there with crazy offers for that land for many years.
It is prime real estate not worthless desert. There is a natural gas pipeline going through there and lots of water under ground too.
Somebody connected to a military corporation is using political power and the BLM to muscle those people out.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iygs0yURzRo
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2014 - 08:52pm PT
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Werner: There are developers working for military contractors that want that land and water for mining weapons grade minerals for industry
Werner: They want to sell the land by the highway for real estate development because it’s close to I-15
Which is it? Or will it be a new-money libertarian stronghold of 4500sqft, nuclear-powered McMansions?
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 08:55pm PT
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I didn't say any of that Joe.
Those are quotes from a media source.
Nice disinformation agent you are .....
UPDATE: Up to 5,000 Armed Militia Members Will Be Arriving in Bunkerville, Nevada Today
Will Ron A be there?
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 10, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
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That rancher should be waterboarded and then keel-hauled, mutinous motherf*cker that he is. If he survives that then throw his crusty ass off Half Dome after making him walk the cables (aside to Herr Braun, DO NOT RESCUE THE SORRY PIECE OF SHEEIT).
Don't waste any expensive bullets on him, they come out of our precious tax dollars.
Enough said?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 10, 2014 - 09:16pm PT
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Bruce: Re your post/question:
All Mormons whose families have been in Lost Wages for 150 years are now exempt from LV property taxes.
It's possibly a fact, except Las Vegas was not anything but a farm 150 years back.
From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Las_Vegas
Not until 1895 did the first large-scale migration of Mormons begin in the area, at long last fulfilling Brigham Young's early dream. Through wells and arid irrigation, agriculture became the primary industry for the next 20 years and in return for his development, the farmers named the area in honor of the railroad tycoon and Senator, Clark County, Nevada.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 10, 2014 - 09:20pm PT
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So as not to be accused of making uniformed comments, I did a random walk through the thread and did some reading.
My problem here is not whether the rancher is right or wrong, but with the tactics involved going out to simply slaughter the cows which are privately owned, and on the other hand letting the burros run and reproduce out of control while devastating the land. There are a lot fewer of the cows than burros, and the cows are periodically "harvested" by rounding up and selling some of them for the food chain.
I did not see anything in the article about slaughter and apparently some folks don't recognize the value of a good donkey show.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 10, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
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I watched NBC news tonight and they failed to mention this historical confrontation of an American Rancher aka: delusional tax-cheat vs. the Great Satan aka BLM Law Enforcement.
I suspect that Fox News devoted much of their broadcasting day to the incident that Werner posted a link to this morning along with his recent mention about tomorrow bringing:
Up to 5,000 Armed Militia Members Will Be Arriving in Bunkerville, Nevada Today
I was betting on the Mormon Rancher/tax cheat to win, but if the bullets start flying, I'm betting on our government.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 10:05pm PT
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I herd that this year's Burning Man is going to have one hell-of-a BBQ with locally grown, range-fed beef, all free.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 10:19pm PT
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Nevada needs less cows and more wolverines.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 10, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
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Don Quixote must die!
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 10:54pm PT
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In the beautiful Wicklow mountains of Ireland, local farmers are allowed grazing rights on military property, provided all livestock are removed prior to certain pre-designated live-firing days. On one of those days, my battalion was surprised to see a much less beat up than usual vehicle in the firing zone but we followed orders and engaged that target with 84mm recoiless rifles.
Apparently some farmer hadn't checked his calendar properly...luckily for him (and us), he wasn't in his truck.
No conspiracy, no NWO, no Stalinist or fascist plot, just some idiot farmer who couldn't follow some simple rules to keep his freebies coming. Same story here.
TE
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:55pm PT
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When the Newworldorder bot raved about what we will lose, I remembered Republican VP's Dan Quail's similar thoughts:
when he addressed the United Negro College Fund, whose slogan is "A mind is a terrible thing to waste," and said, "You take the UNCF model that what a waste it is to lose one's mind or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."[14][15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Quayle
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 10, 2014 - 11:57pm PT
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Full Retard
Mormons ought to know the ending to this story already
So f*ckin stupid
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:07am PT
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“No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans.”
 Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval |
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:11am PT
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F*#k that redneck as#@&%e . . . he stole the land just like the rest of us "merican as#@&%es.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:12am PT
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This is going to get interesting. There are already militia members there. They say more are on their way.
This thing needs to de-escalate, with the gov't concession that maybe we shouldn't be charging people to graze on land at the expense of a silly tortoise.
I'm happy to have cameras on scene. Prolly the only thing that kept this from going 'Ruby'.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:12am PT
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Shoot the fuuucker for stealing my land with his cows.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:14am PT
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funny, how you guys joke about this sh#t.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:17am PT
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maybe we shouldn't be charging people to graze on land at the expense of a silly tortoise.
huh?
herp derp
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:19am PT
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I'm not joking Bluey . . . we don't own the land brother.
Why is the tortoise so silly?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:21am PT
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Do you know how many cattle graze on public lands for free?
Why is this land costed?
EDIT: The tortoise is fine, much like the Peregrine Falcon. It's an excuse. Not preservation.
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:22am PT
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Sagebrush rebels are due some respect, even though they are sometimes idiots. Amusing to watch. I'd like to be a fly on the kitchen wall during morning coffee at Bundy's.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:25am PT
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Bruce, you might as well argue with a stump...
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:26am PT
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... actually the stump may have higher powers of reasoning.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:27am PT
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Do you know how many cattle graze on public lands for free?
Yeah, that doesn't make it right . . . right?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:30am PT
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Do you think the same fuzziness might exist between "Terrorists" and "Militiamen"?
So, we're equating head-chopping terrorists with defenders of Bill of Rights?
Nobody has fired a shot. They are simply defending a mans right to his lands that he has always used, prior to 1993 and 1998.
He is in no-compliance of the law though...but they need to stand down.
Needs to go to Fed Court, and then the Supremes.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:33am PT
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"They" don't own the land either . . . f*#k them too.
It is a no win situation . . . the karma of Manifest Destiny . . . destined to fail. You cannot win with arrogance, greed and egotism.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:37am PT
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Bruce, they are DARING the Feds to fire a shot.
This is why it needs to be down-sized. Get the Feds out. Go to court.
DO NOT SHOW UP WITH GUNS! People don't like that in America.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:41am PT
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BLM is wrong in this case.
Period
Wrong all kinds of ways. Both in purpose and in execution.
I think you folks have no idea how serious folks here are about this one.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:43am PT
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Get the Feds out. Go to court.
Hey Gomer McDipsh#t?
What part of "judicially" are you failing to understand? Do I really have to explain to your ignurt ass that the judicial system IS the courts?
The Bureau of Land Management and the National Park Service have made repeated attempts to resolve this matter administratively and judicially.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:43am PT
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The BLM is wrong all the way around . . . how can you "manage" the Land?
Stoopid f*#king 'mericans.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:47am PT
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:48am PT
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Needs to go to Fed Court, and then the Supremes.
already lost several times in federal court dipsh*t
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:50am PT
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NWO is a bunch of pussies . . . interested in maintaining their supply of mascara.
Just look at that fat white f*#k with his fancy firearm.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:55am PT
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With morons like Bluester cheering them on, these folks seem to be cruising down the martyr highway at a rapid clip...
... that the locals want to argue with the feds does not mean the feds will want a Kumbya moment after other methods of settlement have been previously rejected.
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:55am PT
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Militia=bat sh#t crazy...
Lock all you f*#king crazy nut jobs up and throw away the key!
You gun nut militia tard dooms day wackos don't do much for making a case to those not quite convinced of your ways just yet. Kinda were as it seems to be your whole MO..
Its like self sterilization... The blind leading the blind..
Keep up the good work ;)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:56am PT
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climb2ski, I get that! But people need to be careful with this gov't.
If the gov't was smart they'd stand down. Back off.
If they have legal recourse, then go to court. It has gotten worse now though. They have killed his cattle.
This will be ugly. The FEDs should back off.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:57am PT
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Why should the feds back away?
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 11, 2014 - 12:59am PT
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It's like he's missing part of his brain
What happened man? Alcohol? Drugs? Mom drunk or high on drugs?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:00am PT
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Militia=bat sh#t crazy...
Lock all you f*#king crazy nut jobs up and throw away the key!
You gun nut militia tard dooms day wackos don't do much for making a case to those not quite convinced of your ways just yet. Kinda were as it seems to be your whole MO..
I'm the "crazy" one???
EDIT: Why should the feds back away?
Waco.
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:03am PT
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Hopefully the Feds do what they have to to get you bunch of wackos in line if that's what it comes to. I a,sure they will if need be!
If that means it gets ugly so be it. You militia wackos will loose either way. If they don't just have to kill you all you'll at the least spend the rest of your days in a jail cell setting a mighty fine example for your cause ;)
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:03am PT
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But people need to be careful with this gov't.
"Meet the new boss . . . same as the old boss."
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:13am PT
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If they don't just have to kill you all you'll at the least spend the rest of your days in a jail cell setting a mighty fine example for your cause ;)
Ya know what, as#@&%e, you can put a little smiley face after your hateful statement, but yer still an as#@&%e that wishes I die or go to jail.
Very tolerant of you. Tell me one thing the protesters are doing wrong. And then contrast that with what the Occupy Idiots did in their protests.
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:15am PT
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That was a wink ;)
You guys carry guns and make threats with them..
People with guns have a track record of using them!
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:17am PT
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Waco.
lol whatever
those freaks could have ended it peacefully anytime they wanted to
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:17am PT
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Do people with knives have a "track record"?
I have several guns. Never fired a shot in anger yet. Check yer facts!
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:17am PT
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... and people without guns have a hard time using them...
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:18am PT
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Bang bang, shoot shoot.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:19am PT
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Waco
lol whatever
those freaks could have ended it peacefully anytime they wanted to
O.k., we'll just dismiss that one b/c you lost....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:26am PT
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Bruce, very nice work, and I do know the story.
Lets use logic and follow Eric Holder and Fast and Furious gun-running. Where would you go with that, based on the evidence?
I got more too.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:36am PT
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Eric Holder is a liar and will go down. It will be rough though.
How do you drop America's top cop? Get him so pissed off that he loses his cool. He loses it.
That's just the start. The IRS scandal and Fast/Furious will be the death of Holder's tenure.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:40am PT
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Do yous guys watch pro wrestling in yer spare time?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:43am PT
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If you don't see Holder breaking, you're blind.
EDIT: Reilly, I debate politics in my spare time. Is there a difference?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 01:59am PT
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I have no idea of the relevance of Howell, who you quoted.
I do know that Holder is prolly a liar and is not releasing all requested info to the Oversight Committee. He should be jailed. After a trial.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 11, 2014 - 02:57am PT
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What the hell point are you making, Bruce?
You're totally off-topic, brah.
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John M
climber
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Apr 11, 2014 - 03:32am PT
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If the gov't was smart they'd stand down. Back off.
If they have legal recourse, then go to court. It has gotten worse now though. They have killed his cattle.
This will be ugly. The FEDs should back off.
umm.. uh.. yeah.. ya know.. well um.. like hey man..
the feds have taken it to court. THEY WON !!!!
so umm like ya know. ummm..
even the nevada cattle association doesn't agree with this guy.
So umm like you know. umm
how do you enforce the rules if you go to court and the people say.. "screw your court"?
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Dal Maxvill
Social climber
Granite City, Illinois
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Apr 11, 2014 - 08:54am PT
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They are simply defending a mans right to his lands that he has always used, prior to 1993 and 1998.
He's a freeloading trespasser. He has no rights to that land. He was told to get off the lawn several times. If I'd done the same thing in Granite City growing up, this is when the farmer breaks out the shotgun loaded with rock salt.
Why are you defending a leech?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 11, 2014 - 09:15am PT
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Bruce, just a heads up. I believe that for the last few years you have been paying government agents to rework Wiki. If you want to accept it as gospel truth, just realize that it's gospel truth as the government wants you to see it.
As long as you remember this you'll be fine: "We have always been at war with Oceania."
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 11, 2014 - 05:12pm PT
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Branwashed people like to lump "issues" together into one, prescribed to them by media, package--"red herring" fallacies all over the place.
Benghazi...
IRS...
herp derp derrp
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 11, 2014 - 05:32pm PT
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Floorabove
climber
The Gunks y'all
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Apr 11, 2014 - 05:38pm PT
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Watching that you tube video made me want to machine gun some protestors. F*#king white trash !
Edit: too bad they weren't in Albuquerque! Haha!.
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Apr 11, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
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This whole side show is having exactly the effect it is intended to.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 11, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
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Funny... I wonder how this would play out if they were Hispanics poaching public land for their cattle.
Nah, they are good ol'boys in flannel and boots... fighting the Man... standing up for THEIR land... which it turns out they don't own and actually owe money for using... long live Merka, greatest country EVER... except for the government... just the constitution... but only the parts I agree with... the parts about the guns, not the parts about equal rights for people I find repulsive.
Merkins!
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little Z
Trad climber
un cafetal en Naranjo
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Apr 11, 2014 - 07:03pm PT
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Is it really necessary to tie up all that land? If it is, why? What's the government doing with it?
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 11, 2014 - 10:05pm PT
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Two days into the thread. Is the rancher dead yet? If he was homeless, a nigger, or a redskin he might be.
Cliven Davis was at Wounded Knee too. Dude is a real champion of the rights of Amerikans.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 11, 2014 - 11:13pm PT
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Stay away from gun rights. This rancher's case has absolutely nothing to do with this or other issues.
Actually, it does have to do with gun rights when the dipshits in the video start ranting about their ARs and the armed militia shows up.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 11, 2014 - 11:31pm PT
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I saw a bunch of felonies committed in that video - all of them committed by those in uniform.
You can't issue terrorist threats, or assault someone with a deadly weapon for no good reason. It doesn't matter who you are.
Where in police training are cops taught they're supposed to aggravate and escalate a situation? Nowhere. That's where.
All the cops had to do was LEAVE, and the scene would have immediately cooled, as evidenced by what happened once they left.
I'd be interested to read the use-of-force report written by the cop who roughed-up the old woman. But I'll bet he never writes one.
All this for a non-violent civil matter that's not even a crime. The Feds aren't looking very good here.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2014 - 01:09am PT
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It's totally cut-and-dried - he stopped paying his grazing lease payments, his arguments have lost in every courtroom and on every appeal, and yet he still both refuses to pay and continues to graze on public land. His claims have no legitimacy or merit whatsoever.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:31am PT
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Since when is jumping in front of someone's car legal Chaz? Or ranting about your AR?
Bundy has been calling for a confrontation for years now.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:42am PT
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Is jumping in front of someone's car a FELONY, Weschrist?
ADW and making terrorist threats are.
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John M
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:49am PT
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Blocking an officer of the law from doing his job is against the law.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:51am PT
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I don't know. If you do it repeatedly on a federal highway, maybe. If it was done aggressively, as in assault, and resulted in bodily harm, maybe. Pretty sure disorderly conduct can be a felony, especially when preceded by threats of violence against officers of the law.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:52am PT
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John M,
What "job" was the officer doing?
The rancher hasn't been accused of any crime. Has he?
What were the cops doing there, besides stirring sh#t up? You'll notice things calmed down immediately once the cops left.
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John M
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 03:19am PT
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Chaz, I don't know all the details. I believe that it started in 1993 with a modification to the mans grazing rights. I don't know exactly what happened, but I believe that some of this mans grazing rights were taken away. From that point the man refused to pay any grazing fees. The feds took him to court and he was ordered to pay. He refused. They took him to court again and the court said he had to get his cows off federal land. He refused. So now officers of the BLM are removing his cows from federal land. The people protesting this were attempting to stop these officers of the law from doing their jobs. So the rancher is not in compliance with the federal court, and the people trying to stop the removal of cows are breaking the law by interfering in the duties of a law enforcement officer.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 03:36am PT
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I don't understand what the cops were doing in that video, except antagonizing people.
What did they accomplish by the time they left at the end of the video that couldn't have been accomplished by just leaving at the beginning?
Do you think a video like this will serve to recruit more lunatics to the cause than if there had been no video?
The idiot cops aren't making their jobs any easier by willingly starring in Prison Nation screen productions.
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John M
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 03:40am PT
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the video doesn't show the whole picture. Those people were attempting to stop the removal of the cattle. The cops were there to see to it that they were not able to.
Did the police do a good job? I doubt it. But that doesn't excuse some of the things these people were doing. How many times on this forum have people like fattrad and bluering said on this forum that one shouldn't try to physically interfere in what the police are doing?
One of the thing that I find sad is how poor the reporting on this issue is. How can one really understand a sitsuation if the media reporting is so poor or so heavily biased?
Someone brought up how the occupy movement was shut down by the feds. I fully agree that the feds can have too heavy of a hand. I live inside a national park on private property and I have to deal with it daily. Sometimes it can suck.
And some times both sides screw up. I supported what I believed the occupy movement stood for, which to me was trying to hold the bankers accountable for their part in the destruction of our economy, but I did not support some of the actions done by people in the occupy movement. How many times did Fatard bring up the person shitting on the cop car? Hundreds? He tried to shut down any discussion with that one stupid fact.
Too few people seem to care about the truth and it is too easy to obscure the truth. I read over 20 different stories online about this incident, trying to understand it. I read many from what I can only call right wing websites. In many of them they emphasized that this was done without warning. Which is just nuts and a lie. This rancher has a website and on it he lists media stories that said it was about to happen. So they knew, and yet it is repeated over and over that it was done without warning.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Apr 12, 2014 - 04:57am PT
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has anybody ever been attacked by a crazed sumo wrestler?
does your small intestine ever slide down your leg?
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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Apr 12, 2014 - 09:59am PT
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I commend those BLM rangers for making a solid attempt at completing their task and then getting out of there when it was a losing battle. They didn't step it up and start using batons and OC spray like many officers may have in that situation.
Getting those cattle might call for some trickery. To avoid a the belligerent mob.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 12, 2014 - 10:22am PT
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The man lost twice in court. Gtfo. Can we all just start ignoring the system we have all agreed too?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
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Mr Kos writes:
"If that was a mob of angry negros in Redlands I'll bet you would not have seen those "felonies." "
If I saw that, I'd probably know most of the mob members. If not them personally, then more than likely their families.
It's a small town. I've been here almost forty years.
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
The coastal redwoods
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
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Was that truly Ron? Where the deliberate misspellings?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
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Nice!
Same post, 2 threads!
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John M
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
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what was good about it? He doesn't back up anything he said. Where did he get this information? He just wants to slam liberals.
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
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Uhm... He live there John?
do you?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:33pm PT
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Ron postings are now collectors' items...start a 3rd thread just in case...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
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Ron's post makes sense to me in terms of what's going on in other parts of the West.
Rather than Waco or Ruby Ridge what this reminds me of more, is the standoff between the Indians and the FBI on the Pine Ridge Reservation years ago.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:37pm PT
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The only people missing in this fracas are Nugent and Palin...
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John M
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 03:19pm PT
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Uhm... He live there John?
do you?
Living in nevada don't mean he knows what is going on. As the crow flies I probably live closer then he does.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Apr 12, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
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Hi to Ron!
ABC News and other reputable sources are saying that BLM has cancelled the roundup. http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-cattle-rancher-wins-range-war-federal-government/story?id=23302610
In the 4th post on this funny thread, I predicted this outcome:
Mormon family ranchers illegally grazing their cattle on Federal Land that has been declared habitat for the endangered desert tortoise.
In addition to that, the land is hard-core desert and has been over-grazed and abused for the last 150 years.
A huge bill for unpaid Federal taxes.
Looks like an open & shut case!
The Mormon ranchers coast to an easy win!
Great Ranching land down there too. I just took these 3 photos with Google Earth.
I'll stand by my experiences in that general area and the photo the Las Vegas Review Journal posted. It's Shisty over-grazed hard core desert except along the very-few streams with year-around water.
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
out in front
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Apr 12, 2014 - 03:41pm PT
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desert cows, only in 'murica
get camels and goats
why do we need cattle in the desert west? isn't there enough in WI and the more verdant middle states?
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 03:47pm PT
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why do we need cattle in the desert west 'cuz it's our Great Western Heritage and Birthright and what other good reason is there for all thet there' scrubland?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Apr 12, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
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If this white cowboy and the BLM were replaced by a Tibetan herder and the ChiCom's,
what would the hypocrites that are crying for his extermination say?
Ron's explanation is right on the money.
I've seen first hand the well fields and infrastructure that have sucked valleys north of Reno dry leaving behind nothing but dry as a bone desert and abandoned homes and ranches.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
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that have sucked valleys north of Reno dry leaving behind nothing but dry as a bone desert and abandoned homes and ranches I could say the same of thousands of cattle ranches I've seen from the Continental Divide to the Sierra Nevada and southern Idaho to Mexico (and beyond). Or the dozens of old mining towns I've seen that are now "picturesque" ruins, complete with chemically polluted streams and rivers.
Hey it's just mesquite, sagebrush, jack rabbits and rattlers who gives a F**K?
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Apr 12, 2014 - 04:05pm PT
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"Armed Militia," sounds like they are counting on and provoking some action.
Shoot 'em.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 12, 2014 - 04:12pm PT
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New talking points: Reid is trying to grab the land to give to Red China solar prospectors!!
ZOMG!!!1!
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Apr 12, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
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A comment: Nevada is not much of an oil target. There are few accumulations, and they don't cover much area.
Geologically, it isn't a big target. Certainly not big enough for a big oil company to go nuts over.
Water is the real resource in the desert.
I don't see how this has anything to do with water, though. The water source in this area is groundwater. There are some massive fresh water aquifers in the western deserts. Here and there. Not everywhere.
Use of the surface has nothing to do with water use, and grazing cattle have zip impact on subsurface resources.
Just look at the Owens Valley. Los Angeles more or less stole all of that land in order to nab the water. They don't need the surface, and I would love to see them sell a paltry 100,000 acres for local use. They could safely deed the surface rights while reserving the water rights for Los Angeles.
This is just a whacko rancher who has been quite aware that he has been grazing his cattle on land that he does not own. They have given him 20 years to move his cattle from that land. It isn't like the stormtroopers showed up out of nowhere. I find it odd that he got away with this for so long.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Apr 12, 2014 - 05:00pm PT
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As much as I sympathize with a victim of a heavy handed federal agency, I come down on the side of conservation.
Cows fuk up the desert.
Badly.
And if we had kept sheep out of the west, what is now Utah would have more bighorn sheep than deer.
Ummmmmmmm, wild mutton.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 05:19pm PT
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I dare say off road vehicles damage the environment as much or worse as the cattle ever did. I don't see the BLM chasing them down.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 12, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
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I could only post this in response to Ron who historically speaking is wrong on just about everything he has type to ST.
"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
P. J. O'Rourke
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 12, 2014 - 05:33pm PT
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Jan,
are you defending the rancher?
you think he, or anyone, should be able to ignore paying grazing fees since 1993?
and then, after many conversations and court hearings, continue to ignore?
if so, then at what point do citizens really have to respect and abide by our laws?
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Apr 12, 2014 - 05:43pm PT
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Jan- As the owner of several modified Jeeps I assure you that the BLM does cite people for illegal off-roading. I've reported people myself because illegal wheeling make us all look bad and has forced many trail closures.
In my opinion this guy is not only disrespecting the taxpaying citizen, but he his also screwing over his fellow ranchers who are operating legally.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Apr 12, 2014 - 05:49pm PT
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The rancher should be in jail...period.
Defending the as#@&%e defies logic.
He been breaking the law for over 20 years.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
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Chewy, glad to hear they are finally enforcing off road limits.
Norton, it's a tricky issue alright, but yes, I defend the right to break the law if you think the government is wrong. You just have to be prepared to face the consequences.
Wasn't that what the Civil Rights and anti Vietnam War protesters did?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Apr 12, 2014 - 05:57pm PT
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drove past this town today. several patrol cars and a SWAT van in one turnout, about 8 BLM Ranger SUVs in the next.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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Apr 12, 2014 - 06:10pm PT
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"You just have to be prepared to face the consequences" I agree Jan.
If you can't do the time....
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Apr 12, 2014 - 06:52pm PT
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Remember the old 60's song?
It isn't nice to block the door way.
It isn't nice to go to jail.
But we've tried being nice,
And the nice ways always fail.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 06:55pm PT
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Wasn't that what the Civil Rights and anti Vietnam War protesters did?
Did the Civil Rights protestors have a choice?
Just being black was a criminal; exercising their rights in that police state called the South was a criminal act. They had no legal way to express their views.
These dimwits are just a bunch of angry hillbillies threatening agents who are finally enforcing laws after trying to work with Bundy for 20 years.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Apr 14, 2014 - 05:36pm PT
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Well Bruce, to follow up on that thought regarding what is gospel as the government trys to manipulate your opinions. I read in the mainstream media recently that the Pentagon had over 28,000 full time employees who's only job was to do PR. To convince us all that they are doing good things everywhere. That doesn't include what the CIA, FBI etc etc etc etc all are also doing. For an interesting that to that, start with Wiki if you want and read the sanitized version of "Operation Mockingbird". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
1st sentence (currently) "Operation Mockingbird was a secret campaign by the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) to influence media." Which they did and were stunningly effective with it too. From the congressional investigation: "The CIA currently maintains a network of several hundred foreign individuals around the world who provide intelligence for the CIA and at times attempt to influence opinion through the use of covert propaganda. These individuals provide the CIA with direct access to a large number of newspapers and periodicals, scores of press services and news agencies, radio and television stations, commercial book publishers, and other foreign media outlets." That was back when we had a "free" press too.
http://www.dcbureau.org/201309309080/national-security-news-service/the-selling-of-the-pentagon-2013.html
Bruce Kay said:
"Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
Apr 11, 2014 - 06:27am PT
Oh if we could actually prove that, I might not be so sure about wiki, and i'm certainly not certain that it is gospel.
Here's the problem. It is plausible that the gubmint is salting wikipedia. Any amount of speculation on motives and secret buildings full of IT drones can establish that.
Its also plausible that waco and Bundyville are Agenda 21 probes.
If you are satisfied with plausibility in order to make a decision about anything, I'd like to sell you a bridge.
Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
Apr 11, 2014 - 06:35am PT
try this: reverse engineer it.
are there any reasons ( probability based) to doubt the official story of Waco? I do believe it has been scrutinized quite well, like Bengazi for instance.
establishing plausibility is useful, but only to get started ( idea) and is fairly easy (lazy)
establishing probability is necessary to finish ( theory) and takes enormous work and skill (not lazy)
If theory can survive a robust process of probability intact, there's likely something to it.
Bruce Kay
Gym climber
BC
Apr 11, 2014 - 06:44am PT
The deal is.... if you ever encounter a person who is certain about something yet they can only establish plausibility, you are talking to a nut case. An ideologue. A religious kook. A tin foil hat goomba. NWO fruit cake.
If you are going to restrict anyone from voting, they should be top of your list.... but that isn't ethical is it? "
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Apr 14, 2014 - 05:48pm PT
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bump for a combined total of more than 1000
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| Messages 1 - 223 of total 223 in this topic |
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