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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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regular gas oven with convection bake mode, set to 175.
barely cook the ground beef because it will cook more when you dry it then again when rehydrated. Add onion and brown gravy mix or there will be no flavor.
Storebought is fine though. Hell, you're only going out for a few days.
Mary Janes Farm stuff from REI has the best flavor but it's like ten dollars for beans and rice but it's the best gdamn beans and rice you'll ever eat.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, all... wow, this is really nice!
too many names to thank here, on this share...
nice links, too...
note:
say, kunlun_shan... still really enjoy and love that cookbook!
when i do the monthly grocery, the first week of may,
i am seeing which things to try, :)
thanks again, so very kindly!!!
oh, and say, all:
we used to use drying racks in south texas, to dry fruit...
no sun around these here parts :(
so i think i will just try drying stuff in the oven, just
for the 'fun of trying it' :)
edit:
wow, say, lynnne, happy to see you... YES! a save link, for this thread, for future use, :)
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julton
climber
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Lorenzo your link is wrong about the empty canister weight. But this isn't a thread about stoves, a subject that generates very strong feelings. Suffice it to say that a butane stove is best suited for my style of cooking, with a partner and an eye toward well prepared meals of some complexity. And with butane rather than save weight a cozy is just another item in my pack. With heavier alcohol fuel it is likely different. That's all I meant to say, just that a cozy isn't necessarily worth having.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Lorenzo your link is wrong about the empty canister weight.
Well I have weighed canisters. Every one I have used, actually. The old ones that looked like brake fluid cans actually held more and weighed less.Each manufacturer is a little different and they even change a bit as safety standards change. They are pressure vessels that have to withstand over 200 lbs, which is about what you get if you boil one. ( not saying you should try that)
But 90- 110 g for a 100g (3.53 oz) canister is pretty typical.They are getting heavier.
I use a couple butane stoves, ( I own 7 stoves of all types going back to the original SVEA 123 days). Call jetboil and ask. (888) 611-9905
One of the fellows on that forum did:
Just called Jetboil, they say a 100g can is 94g empty and a 230g is 126g empty.
Pretty close to 1:1 fuel:canister. The larger size is a little more efficient at 1.2:1 , but only if it isn't cold and you used exactly one canister.
And you probably can't use all the fuel in a canister, so the extra 7 grams I quoted is quite reasonable. An empty canister isn't the same one that has been spent. They need a minimum pressure to function.
But this isn't a thread about stoves, a subject that generates very strong feelings. Suffice it to say that a butane stove is best suited for my style of cooking, with a partner and an eye toward well prepared meals of some complexity. And with butane rather than save weight a cozy is just another item in my pack. With heavier alcohol fuel it is likely different. That's all I meant to say, just that a cozy isn't necessarily worth having.
If you are having success with your system, great. The whole idea is to have fun. If you can get through your trip with one canister and don't Carry a second, ( I'm too chicken ) yours is the most efficient without the extra couple ounces of cozy. I tended to carry a half full canister as a backup, which of course means you end up with a boxfull.
But saving weight or complicated meals aren't necessarily a function of the stove. You have to think of it as a system. Pot, windscreen, and meal planning all matter. Often the hottest stoves are the worst in that regard.. Colin Fletcher and MSR touted boil time as the big test of efficiency years ago, and that proves not to be so much the case.
Titanium, the new wonder camping material, turns out to be a relatively poor heat conductor, much of a hot flame will be lost to the air rather than heat food. That's why Jetboil uses the flux ring and neoprene cozy.
And, if you heed Jetboil's advice, you shouldn't be doing anything but boil water in their lightweight titanium models, because the flux rings that transfer that heat are brazed on and could melt off. And while a flux ring does help transfer heat, that works the other way when the stove is off, so eat fast. It is why it comes with that little plastic cup/cozy. The lightest model is also 8.5 ounces not including a canister. A simpler system can shave 4 ounces. It sounds like gram weeny stuff, but when you have a bad back weight can mean not going.
I have a couple boxes of stoves and cooking gear. What you have been sold on as efficient isn't always the case, and some adaptation will often greatly enhance efficiency.
And it is all part of going light, which I assume is why the tread was started.
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julton
climber
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Well I have weighed canisters.
Apparently not a Jetboil canister.
Just called Jetboil...
You could've just looked at their web site. The funny thing is they're wrong.
They are pressure vessels that have to withstand over 200 lbs, which is about what you get if you boil one.
At 212F? You're nuts. A typical canister would be way more than 200psi.
What you have been sold on as efficient isn't always the case
You don't have a clue. I couldn't care less about efficiency. All I said was that a cozy provides no weight savings for me.
And it is all part of going light, which I assume is why the tread was started.
Not even close. The OP is a chef who wants to know about dehydrating food, not how many millimeters to shave his toothbrush.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Titanium, the new wonder camping material, turns out to be a relatively poor heat conductor, much of a hot flame will be lost to the air rather than heat food. That's why Jetboil uses the flux ring and neoprene cozy.
The whole switch to titanium was a result of the completely false hysteria over aluminum and Alzheimer's and the industry's fixation on selling $100 dollar pots.
Still using the same 40 Year old Svea 123 and aluminum pots.
It ain't broke so I ain't fixin' it.
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Dehydrate a jar of spaghetti sauce into a leathery disk!
Then at camp cook 1.lb of angel hair pasta and add the sauce leather in
tiny pieces late in the boil until its just right for eating.
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 01:56am PT
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the pot cozy is the dehydrator's "slow cooker". saves me fuel, and gives the food the time it needs.
highly recommended, along with eKat's sleeping bag xtra insulation method.....
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Apr 10, 2014 - 12:21pm PT
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One nice cold-weather food that might be worthy of refinement with a dehydrator is "carbonara leather".
Stick these in a blender: bacon, cooked pasta, eggs lightly cooked (stirred into the hot pasta), Parmigiano, Romano, or Grana Padano cheese, as much butter as you dare, and some pepper.
In cold weather, it hardens up into a plasticky gel in a ziplock bag. Dehydrating might make it lighter, but the goal here is high fat/protein for cold weather, with no field prep, delicious, and as compact and pliable as you can get it for packing or in pockets while climbing.
Somewhat tangential but complementary to the dehydrator topic.
I'm going to bookmark this thread too- nice food suggestions.
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julton
climber
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Apr 10, 2014 - 07:59pm PT
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Lorenzo, I must apologize to you with regard to the canister weights. I have weighed Jetboil-100 canisters several times in the past and SnowPeak-110 canisters numerous times and both were always about 87 or 88 grams. But I haven't weighed one recently. Although they look the same I thought, maybe Lorenzo is right after all? I should check. So late last night I dug through the box with the partial empties and found one of each, close enough to being done that I didn't mind burning the fuel. And you're right, they are now each about 10g heavier. The SnowPeak-110 empty was 97.5g and the Jetboil-100 was 98.9g.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Apr 11, 2014 - 10:10am PT
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you're right, they are now each about 10g heavier. Yeah, old Propane/butane mixes were 10% propane. The newer blends are up to 30% for colder weather. Needs thicker cans. There aren't significantly more BTU's in a can, though, so you pay the price when it's warmer. It's not the extra grams that bug me, but that you carry out half of what you carried in and I always felt I had to carry an extra can.
Jetboil doesn't publish their blend, but it occurred to me that a bit of math and published pressures should get you pretty close to figuring it out. Gas laws are linear. When I get home in a couple weeks I'll have to experiment.
I like nutagain's idea of keeping the fat. Calories are always good and fat is the most efficient way to have them. I guess pemmican was the same concept.
Have you tried this in August without things going rancid?
I use olive oil on everything I can,( even the breads and the dried meats) which works well and tastes great to me. Never had an issue with it going bad.
I figure it replaces the fat I cut off from stuff I dried.
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julton
climber
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Apr 11, 2014 - 03:31pm PT
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Yeah, old Propane/butane mixes were 10% propane. The newer blends are up to 30% for colder weather. Needs thicker cans.
SnowPeak and MSR were both claiming 20% a decade ago. SnowPeak now says their fuel is only 15%. The old ones were 87g and the new ones 98g. Why would they need thicker cans if the fuel is either the same or reduced in propane?
it occurred to me that a bit of math and published pressures should get you pretty close to figuring it out. Gas laws are linear.
Are these the same gas laws that led you to the conclusion that the pressure would be 200psi at 212F?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
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Apr 11, 2014 - 10:20pm PT
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Are these the same gas laws that led you to the conclusion that the pressure would be 200psi at 212F?
Wow. You just reminded me of a George Carlin quote I should heed.
But OK.
Yes they are, as a matter of fact. It is called the combined gas law.
The particular portion of the law we are concerned with is the relationship between pressure and temperature as expressed in Gay-Lussac's ( also called Amonton's) law
Which shows a direct proportion between pressure and temperature on an absolute scale.
But you will find I qualified it, because the constant "k" would vary some with each gas mix. That's how you would determine the mix. And you need to know the vapor pressure of each gas.
Most kids learned it in middle school when I was young. Apparently education standards have slipped since then or your teacher will cover it towards the end of the semester..
Should be fun to hear your refutation of the work of Boyle, Charles, and Gay-Lussac.
But you don't need to do the math. The internet is your friend. It turns out there are plenty of curves on the vapor pressures of gasses. Here is the chart for nButane. (nC4H10)
http://encyclopedia.airliquide.com/images_encyclopedie/VaporPressureGraph/Butane_Vapor_Pressure.GIF
You will see from the chart that the vapor pressure curve intersects with the 15 bar line at right around 373°K, which you might have learned from your middle school teacher is 100°C or 212°F if you hadn't been so busy looking at Suzie's boobs. The can has to withstand that pressure or the butane turns to gas and the can explodes, or at least the butane escapes and does what butane does in a free environment.
( you can also see the vapor pressure falls below 1bar at around zero°C , which means no vapor and the stove won't function at sea level.)
If you use the google query to convert 15 bar to PSI it will return
15 bar =
217.556607 pounds per square inch
Which I submit squares nicely with:
"They are pressure vessels that have to withstand over 200 lbs, which is about what you get if you boil one." Close enough, considering I was working from memory. If you subtract the one atmosphere outside the can at sea level, the pressure diferential is about 203 PSI.
Adding propane will increase the pressure, which is why propane tanks are thicker.
Class dismissed.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2014 - 01:26pm PT
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hey stove nerds-please start your own thread-your info is cool, vital, useful BUT i am hoping to lear more about home dehydrated foods...
FYi, lenti and indian chile stew, done, lima and ham and collards, next up!
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julton
climber
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Apr 14, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
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Sorry David, I got sucked in, trolled probably. Lorenzo can't really be that dumb.
I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for. Recipes? I make a pretty good thai curry starting from curry paste and canned coconut milk, thai eggplant and other sauteed vegetables. Pretty basic. It dries into a greasy leather, rehydrates effortlessly and loses virtually nothing in the translation. I've had the same trouble as a previous poster with dried shrimp (squid too) even when dried/rehydrated separately. No matter how long I soaked it in hot water these dried seafoods would never get past the rubber stage. So now I just enjoy a vegetarian version.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2014 - 07:51pm PT
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Julton, you didn't get trolled, you had a discussion
but recipes, ideas, that's what i want...
i just made my lima and broccoli rape soup with pancetta, 3 bean dal, and some fruit and jerky. i am trying to dry real miso too, less salty than that store dried stuff.
Keep those ideas coming people!
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julton
climber
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Apr 14, 2014 - 08:08pm PT
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I know, Malemute, but it doesn't apply to what we were discussing and doesn't even match the chart he posted. That seemed dumb and is why I figured he's trolling. But perhaps I'm wrong and he just doesn't understand.
Recipes? You can dehydrate almost anything including really oily food (it'll still be oily of course). The real trick is knowing what will rehydrate easily and with reasonable texture and taste. Spaghetti sauce is kind of an obvious one.
Miso never seemed worth the bother to dehydrate to me, unless you're eating a lot of miso.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 15, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
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agreed about the miso, just wanted to see if it works; and it does! and i do eat a lot of it...
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Urizen
Ice climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 15, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
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David,
Your menus are so intriguing that I'm now curious about your methods. What sort of apparatus are you using to dehydrate?
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julton
climber
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Apr 15, 2014 - 01:35pm PT
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I am curious too. And have you tried reconstituting the meals yet? Don't forget you can't use 212F water, that's cheating.
Were you dehydrating liquid miso soup made from scratch with kombu and bonito? If so that's serious devotion.
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