Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 73 of total 73 in this topic |
jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
|
|
Dude! so right.
I mean, have you SEEN the used gear prices on Ebay lately? OutRAGEous!
Now, if you wouldn't mind selling me some baby angles, beat up hexes, and a miscellaneous set of bail nuts for... say... $5 that would be outstanding.
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
OP... You have this on your(?) blog:
Newsflash: Every sweater that you own for climbing is made out of plastic. That’s right… You are paying cashmere prices for the same material as that disposable fork you’re eating your kale salad with. And how much plastic is used to make one sweater? About the size of a small apple! Stretched out into plastic thread, and woven by machine (or child in sweatshop) into that fancy sweater. Total cost of plastic? 79 cents. Total cost to you? $249.99. Stop the madness..
The fallacy in your argument is you have only included the cost of the bottle, $0.79 and you have presumed the labor is done by a child.
What proof do you have that child labor is used?
Are you trying to tell the world you can make the same article of clothing for $0.79 and a small child? It seems you have forgotten the investment in machinery that can easily run tens of thousands of dollars.
If you don't like the cost of gear you have three choices:
1. Make your own.
2. Take up bouldering on sunny days.
3. Quit climbing and take up something economical like fly fishing or Formula 1 racing.
|
|
thewesleysummers
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
|
Proof? The proof is in the pudding... check the tag on your gear... none of it is made in the USA. Why? Child labour!
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
I just read all your posts.
I for one, don’t believe in climbing shoes.
What does that even mean?
Do you own a car? Do you calculate only the cost of the steel and rubber and wonder why the car costs so much?
Do you only look at the cost of a 2x4 and wonder why a house costs so much?
There is so much more involved than COGs when pricing a product, not the least of which is labor and needed technology.
Transcendentalism is an interesting essay topic for high school students but it fails miserably in the 21st century.
I think climbing may not be for you.
|
|
NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
Ihateplastic, don't forget the cost of chemical engineering R&D to develop suitable compounds that are collectively referred to as "plastic" and the manufacturing processes to manipulate those compounds into useful stuff, and to make it achievable on a large scale for a modest price.
Also, we have to look at not just the cost of producing the thing, but what we as consumers are willing to pay for it. Without that profit motive, why should the smart people who figured out how to make something useful with that lump of plastic actually do it? The alternative is we can just collect plastic bottles ourselves and figure out how to make a jacket out of it.
Or go to Iceland to harvest down off of eider ducks, or...
I prefer to spend my time making software tools and then pay money for the jackets I use. Ha ha, I was recently on the opposite side of the argument about mungeclimber paying for plumbing when I was advocating a DIY approach.
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
check the tag on your gear... none of it is made in the USA.
Metolius cams- "Hand built, inspected and individually proof tested in Bend, Oregon"
Feathered Friends - "right here in Seattle, Washington" (some exceptions)
McHale Packs - 100% handmade in Washington.
American Apparel - "Made in Downtown LA"
Black Diamond Welterweight Gloves - Made in the USA
Flint and Tinder - "100% Made In America"
Filson - "Filson now has more Made in USA products than ever"
Outdoor Research Gradient Hat and Mentor Pants - Made in America
Browning Full Curl Merino Wool Base Layer - Made in America
REI Mojave Tech Long-Sleeve Shirt - Made in America
Orvis products - Many, many items Made in America
Duluth Trading - "We're 100% committed to domestically sourcing as many of our products as possible"
How many more examples would you like?
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
Wesley summers you don't know sh#t, but it's cool you got time to tell the whole world about it.
|
|
overwatch
climber
|
|
Trolling up some activity for your blog? Maybe a spot for you on Naked and Afraid?
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
I can promise you Dan McHale ain't no kid!
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Geez, so what isn't over-priced? At least a nickle bag of crack is still a nickle, right?
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
Exactly why should climbing gear be cheap?
As nice as it would be if it were less expensive why do you think "it should be"?
|
|
mcreel
climber
Barcelona
|
|
A good way to save money on gear is to bolt everything. With a rack of draws, you're good to go. Who wants to carry around large cams, anyway? Those things are heavy and awkward, not to mention expensive.
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
Anyone want to go climbing with this guy with his Salvation Army sisal rope and Goodwill sourced climbing shoes?
|
|
philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
|
|
I think Ferraris are overpriced Ferraris SHOULD be cheap.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
I would think that cams have only slightly over paced the CPI. Ropes, shoes, soft ware, niners and passive nuts have under paced the CPI
I bought my first cams about 20 years ago--I don't recall the precise amount I paid, but I'd be surprised if cam prices have over paced the CPI from then to now, even slightly.
Also consider that it's generally easy to get something like 20% off MSRP on most products. In the "old days" (different for all of us), you walked into your local mountaineering shop and paid full MSRP for almost everything.
I think almost all rock climbing products are less expensive in real dollars than they were 20 years ago (anywhere from "somewhat" to "a lot"). For time periods before that, I can't say, but I'd guess the trend from more expensive to less expensive is pretty much true as far back in time as we could go.
Also, I'm not always a huge fan or believer in the type of classical economics they teach us in high school, but it at least sometimes does seem to describe the way the world works. If it was easy to come in and undercut the established companies' prices, people would do it, and in some cases they have (think Mad Rock). This has likely lead to lower real (and even actual) prices in things like shoes, although La Sportiva seems to always try to push the price envelope.
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
cheap climbing gear is like a cheap tattoo...except for the dying part.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
Huge fan of the blog, Wesley. All my 5's!
|
|
thewesleysummers
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
|
^ woot, woot!
|
|
JimT
climber
Munich
|
|
I come from a lot further back than 20 years and believe me climbing gear is dirt cheap compared with then, mind you we didn´t carry much either so the total cost was probably less. Compared with the other costs in my life its of no relevance whatsoever, for every student looking for a cheap rope there is someone with a house, 2 kids, wife and a pension plan.
Economics is cool and suprisingly crude, coming into the market and undercutting the others only works long term if you have a way to make the same product cheaper, then you end up looking over the fence and thinking "why am I working twice as hard as him for the same money" and put your prices up. When I price one of my products I work on what I think is a rewasonable earnings ratio and calculate backwards from there, if the market accepts the price I sell loads, if it doesn´t I don´t. No ones in the business of subsidising climbers.
|
|
thewesleysummers
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
|
^ i did not "plug" his business... there is no mention of website or contact info. I advise all of you to find your own climbing life coach! Climb on!
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
THE did not plug his business because he was too busy PLUGGIN' him.
This guy needs his sisal rope to receive a WOS treatment.
|
|
mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
|
|
It's a simple formula--lower priced raw materials + lower labor costs = higher retail price...
...bottom line is more profit margin--welcome to capitalist America, love it or leave it :-)
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
Apr 7, 2014 - 09:36am PT
OP... You have this on your(?) blog:
Newsflash: Every sweater that you own for climbing is made out of plastic. That’s right… You are paying cashmere prices for the same material as that disposable fork you’re eating your kale salad with. And how much plastic is used to make one sweater? About the size of a small apple! Stretched out into plastic thread, and woven by machine (or child in sweatshop) into that fancy sweater. Total cost of plastic? 79 cents. Total cost to you? $249.99. Stop the madness..
The fallacy in your argument is you have only included the cost of the bottle, $0.79 and you have presumed the labor is done by a child.
What proof do you have that child labor is used?
Are you trying to tell the world you can make the same article of clothing for $0.79 and a small child? It seems you have forgotten the investment in machinery that can easily run tens of thousands of dollars.
If you don't like the cost of gear you have three choices:
1. Make your own.
2. Take up bouldering on sunny days.
3. Quit climbing and take up something economical like fly fishing or Formula 1 racing.
I have some pretty nice Columbia Sportswear stuff that I didnt pay more than $15 for at the outlet store. It has a Made in USA label.
People pay Patagucci prices for stuff from China because they think it is cool, not because they have to.
|
|
thewesleysummers
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2014 - 03:07pm PT
|
Exactly!
|
|
fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
|
|
lol at people taking this seriously
|
|
John Butler
Social climber
SLC, Utah
|
|
Somewhere about 30 feet up a route the price you pay begins to becomes less relevant than the quality of the gear...
jb
|
|
Fletcher
Gym climber
A very quiet place
|
|
Did you know that if you look up the word "gullible" in an online dictionary, there is a picture of yourself there? :-) As a side note, I once worked for a company that made an operating system and lots of software to go with it. In its Dictionary app, if you looked up "gullible" it would show the definition along with your Mail photo. :-)
That blog is a parody and I think it's the third time something from it has been posted here. Snags a lot of fish each time. I think it's really well done and entertaining.
Today is National Beer Day (at least according to the New Belgium folks). Have a beer and laugh a bit at yourself (I do it all the time... at least the laughing at myself part!). It's all in good fun!
Cheers,
Eric
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
|
|
Fletcher, the lack of seriousness with which you take the continued fleecing of the adventuring public is disappointing.
|
|
overwatch
climber
|
|
Yeah...lol olol ok ololololo lol loo
|
|
johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
|
|
Some of it may be a little pricey but, is this really from a "badass" climber?
Quote Nothing proves how badass you are more than having a shiny new rack of cams dangling off your harness, other than some well loved hexes.
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
No need for a net there DMT, they are just jumping right in the boat today.
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
This is NOT a troll!
Those who believe it to be a troll are being trolled!
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
Oh no, I've been had!
|
|
Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
|
|
Okay, I'm too lazy to read the article on the OP link. AND I'm too lazy to even read everyone's posts. BUT! Let me say this about the subject line:
If you are so smart, why don't you start a climbing gear company yourself and put every one else out of business!
I can see you know with your locally made, organic fiber, fair trade, USA skilled labor crafted, fully benefited employees with 4 weeks paid vacation and full medical selling very high quality very low cost gear and clothing while you get rich like Scrooge McDuck and give it all to charity like Paul Newman while you humbly dirt bag it like Honnold in his Chevy van. We will all bow to your awesome business prowess and only speak reverently of you. Plus you will get laid like crazy were'ver you go without even having speak in complete sentances.
(I hope my post is still on topic)
|
|
thewesleysummers
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2014 - 11:20pm PT
|
You took the time to write that ^ but not read the article? The reason I don't do what you suggested is because I'm too busy climbing... You know, what you used to do, and now tell your grand kids about..
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
^^^^
The Wesley summers is such a hard man lol! Take that spider savage!!
FYI real guides (not poseurs like you), actually get pro forms & deals on gear so they pay cost at most.
Then they don't have to cry about it like little bitches on their troll blogs.
|
|
Wildincognito
climber
Eastside
|
|
^^^
FYI real guides (not poseurs like you), actually get pro forms & deals on gear so they pay cost at most.
What "cost" are you speaking of? Do you even know what that term refers to?
This blog is awesome!
This topic should be copied and pasted on the BD topic.
Keep up the good work.
|
|
jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
|
|
nobodys offering me any cheap gear yet.
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
What "cost" are you speaking of? Do you even know what that term refers to?
I know that when I get a chance to buy something at cost it's about 1/2 the price & that's all that I really care about or need to know. If u think u need to know more you deserve to pay retail for the rest of your days.
+1 on hilarious blog tho, great stuff.............. Unless it's real.
|
|
Wildincognito
climber
Eastside
|
|
I know that when I get a chance to buy something at cost it's about 1/2 the price & that's all that I really care about or need to know. If u think u need to know more you deserve to pay retail for the rest of your days.
+1 on hilarious blog tho, great stuff.............. Unless it's real.
To quote Wes from earlier -
"Exactly"
Don't worry I'm past the need to know stage.
I won't ask the obvious follow up question- because you might answer and get people in trouble.
BTW this blog is awesome because it's real!
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
......must not........get.......trolled......again..............
|
|
mark miller
Social climber
Reno
|
|
Folks we thought this sh#t was over priced 40 years ago but didn't complain. You just bought the stopper you thought you would need for that next tick on your list and go out and climb.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
This... this blog. It's so brilliant. It's so f*#king brilliant.
Thank you.
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
RyanD wrote:
"......must not........get.......trolled......again.............. "
Isn't that a Who song,"We won't get trolled again!!!"
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
I am sick and tired of spending ridiculous amounts of money for gear that SHOULD be cheap!
I am sick and tired of spending ridiculous amounts of time reading threads which may or may not be trolls.
Troll was a ridiculous Brit effort at nuttery.
I believe thewesleysummers to be some sort of Brit nut as well..."Child labour."
Good. Y'all're not Wesley from Nashville, then.[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
|
|
To all of you,
I am very, very, disappointed that thus far no one has welcomed Wesley to the virtual campfire. It reflects shamefully on the tribe.
He offers a very thoughtful counterpoint to the usual, self indulgent blather typically posted up here, his posts and blog, will in the fullness of time be collected by future Grossman's - you watch!
Wesley is a Confucius for the modern climber, the conscience we have let fall by the wayside. There's a rich vein of wisdom here that's barely been tapped - and best of all it's free you knuckleheads!
You wait, in six months everyone, EVERYONE, will be talking about HIM, even Werner.
If I lived in the US I'd hire him as a coach, for sure, you should too.
Steve
|
|
Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
|
|
^^^^^^
Bruce, FFS, really, you need to open your mind, there's a bigger game at play here and you need to be part of it.
Steve
|
|
Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
|
|
That is quite possibly the worst blog on the entire internet. (and that's saying something) If its a joke its not funny and if its serious its sad, can we all just agree to never bring it onto ST again.
|
|
overwatch
climber
|
|
Confucius says good luck with that
|
|
maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
This isn't a troll. It's a pathetic whine from someone who needs to get a job that pays the bills and leaves a bit left over for playtime.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
ᴵ ᵃᵍʳᵉᵉ ᴵ ᶠᶦᶰᵈ ʰᶦˢ ᵃʳᵗᶦᶜᶫᵉˢ ᵗᵉʳʳᶦᵇᶫᵉ⋅
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
From a Van Driver, too!
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
Who wants to go climbing with THE wesley?
|
|
thewesleysummers
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2014 - 01:55pm PT
|
I appreciate all the great comments everyone!!
To those who just seem angry, and call my posts a waste of time.... perhaps you can get off your butts and actually climb something? You know, like you used to back in the day??
I am available for guiding if you need a refresher...
|
|
chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
|
|
This guy puts a lot of work into what is basically a joke. Must have a lot of free time. I'd guess he's a college student, living off Mom and Dad's dime. Get a job, freeloader!
|
|
Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
|
|
If your posts are serious then you're not qualified to guide someone to the bathroom much less a rock climb, and btw most of us still climb quite a bit.
If you're such a badass why don't you actually put up some pictures or post a TR to convince someone that you might know what you're doing because your blog only shows us that you have no understanding of this sport at all.
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
Spot on Spanky!
|
|
thewesleysummers
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 8, 2014 - 02:08pm PT
|
Shouldn't you be aiding up El Cap right now? I don't need to post trip reports for you to drool over, just to prove what I'm capable of. I am providing a service to the actual community of climbers out there, and if you don't like it, you can close the fly on your portaledge and turn off your iPhone.
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
Speaking of getting trolled, I saw a few familiars had posted in the comments on Wesley's blog. Check it out lol.
|
|
Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
|
|
If this is a troll... WHICH IT IS NOT... then punishment is due. For, as we all know all too well...
TROLLS MUST DIE!
|
|
Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
|
|
Wes, You need a mentor. Spend some time with a real "trad" climber. One who has been climbing before the word "trad" was invented.
|
|
fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
|
|
is that an arroyo you're roped up for there?
|
|
Jstod
Trad climber
North Vancouver
|
|
Profound insight on Wes' blog from the "5.14! What does it take?" article:
"Cruxes: I always find that for me, the crux on a route is the hardest part."
… me too!
|
|
Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
|
|
^^^^
Insight and wisdom. He's just bursting with it. It's great - I'm hooked.
Steve
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
|
Apr 14, 2014 - 02:26pm PT
|
Quoted from the site: ".....Anyway…. after that, they go to the Eiger. A bunch of stuff happens, he tries to find the killer, people die… but it’s mostly mountaineering, and nobody likes to watch mountaineering.
5/5 Stars! * * * * *
What do you guys think?"
4.5 star review (out of 10...pfft, just kidding) and I'm still laughing. Thanks man!
|
|
Wildincognito
climber
Eastside
|
|
|
Apr 17, 2014 - 03:50am PT
|
Bump to watch Clint Eastwood!
|
|
| Messages 1 - 73 of total 73 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!