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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Kos, there's that great sense of humor again, you too Nature.
What I was asking or wondering....It seems to me that (depending on the ownership of course) a privately help corp. that does not have to keep market shareholders happy might be more user friendly to the employees.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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^^^
Depends. Here's an example. My mother spent a time working for Georgia Pacific. GP was a publicly traded firm (one of the largest paper and pulp companies in the world). Employees were treated very well with good benefits while it was public answering to shareholder. My sister had worked for them for a long time and recommended it highly to mom when she was downsized after almost 30 years with another firm.
Then, in 2005, Koch Industries, the second largest private firm in the country, bought out GP and took it private. Within about 2 years, employees were leaving in droves. Including Mom. Morale was low, employees felt they were treated much worse. Anecdotal, but true.
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WanderlustMD
Trad climber
New England
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I've never had issues with their gear and I've used it a lot. Hope they are around for a while
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stuv
climber
pas de montagnes
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were the layoffs at the factory in SLC or China?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Anything that adds to the above salary "cost per employee" is reviewed by the corporate directors as being accountable to shareholders. My comments about Obamacare above were not meant to be funny or specious. Many corporations with long-standing health care plans have been adversely affected. Having been involved in the management of 4 businesses over my career, the number normally used in computing the costs of a new hire (or a layoff!) is based at agreed salary plus 20%. That covers vacation time, and benefits package in addition to FICA and unemployment insurance. Anything which affects that number is viewed adversely by the board of directors as affecting profitability.
That said, based on BD's spread sheet, I would be very leery of investing my money in a company losing that kind of $$$. It doesn't matter to sophisticated investors if the company is making great climbing hardware or sewer lids. I personally hate to see the legacy of Yvon Chouinard sent to China to get fukked up. I still have several "original" Camalots with the "Diamond C" maker's mark.
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Gene
climber
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Brokedownclimber,
Salary plus 20% seems light to me. Depending on what's involved, 25% to low-30% range seems more realistic.
g
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Blaming things on Obamacare is really saying that the preposterous, exaggerated figures associated with American health insurance - however you shake it - is starting to take the country down. The financial aspect of the entire healthcare system is totally out of whack, but since here in the US the profit motive is attached to virtually everything (or it's not American), I think the whole thing is going to have to collapse before a socialized system is finally in adopted as the only viable option. Shifting monies from other sectors will happen over people's dead bodies because people won't be "done out" of a dime for you or anyone else.
The whole healthcare system is a house of cards so far as I can tell. If you have great coverage the care is world class. But sooner or later it simply won't be affordable for anyone. This is going to get ugly, I think because businesses will start folding.
JL
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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If by "factual" you mean pulled completely out of your ass with no backing in reality, sure. That's not what most of us consider "factual".
BD is a corporate entity, traded on the NASDAQ as BDE, comprised of a few merged companies. The bulk of their production is done overseas in China and the Phillipines. So please demonstrate to me, exactly WTF "Obamacare" has to do with it?
So who is getting laid off then? Chiners and Philippinos?
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Gene
climber
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Chiners and Philippinos?
Come on, Bluey. You can do better than that.
g
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hagerty
Social climber
A Sandy Area South of a Salty Lake
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Does anyone have a link to an actual news article instead of speculation? I haven't been able to find anything.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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BD belay parkas are the only ones NOT cut with a maternity cut. I just tried on one from every manufacturer represented in Vancouver, and this is the only one that was slimmer around the middle than around the chest.
really? you tried on the Patagonia DAS and the ArcTeryx equivalent, as well as what RAB is offering in this segment, and found the BD item to be the slimmest of the bunch while still functioning as a legitimate belay parka (i.e. sufficiently warm, with a hood, with the double-zipper thing to accommodate the belay tube)?
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Gene-
You're correct; I've been retired too long! I'd say 30-35% in today's economy. It should have been typed as 30%, not 20%, by the way. A lot depends on company size and number of employees. I'd guess the "Big Pharma" would possibly use 40% because of all the high level professionals employed. My son works as a biochemist for Merck, and from his seniority, gets 5 weeks a year vacation. That doesn't come free to the shareholders. So far he's made it through 2 rounds of layoffs, too.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Sell BD.
Buy Kimberly-Clark.
And it don't depend on nothing more than faith
in growing numbers who experience urinary or fecal incontinence.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Mouse is right! With all the schitt around, there's an overwhelming need for toilet paper!
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Ohhhh, Mice do say the darndest things.
This has been (generally) a good thread to read. Learned a bit from most of you. Guess the bottom line is there really is no over all equation for success. Like a chameleon, a business and their employees have to keep adapting to current changes while trying to for see the future. Cheers, Lynne
Edit: Is your weather today as perfect as our in No. San Diego County? It's a 10 for sure.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Largo is correct about the entire healthcare system needing overhaul, and he's also correct that things are going to get ugly before things get better.
I worked "with" big Pharma, and not "for" them for almost my entire professional career. My company manufactured various "feedstock" or starting materials which were ancillary to manufacture of licit pharmaceuticals. I finally "bailed" in 2004 because of the burgeoning and overwhelming regulatory issues that were rapidly becoming too much for a smaller manufacturer. I sold out my technology to a larger company and went to work as a "consultant" until 2009, and let them worry about the FDA, OSHA, EPA, and several other agencies. Add in the ever increasing health care costs, and other burdensome issues, I was glad to sell and close my doors after a successful run of 26 years.
Why are all the American companies running overseas? Why is BD having "problems?" My answer is not labor costs directly, but the escape from having to deal with Federal alphabet soup agencies and have specialists employed full time to do so! I absolutely LOVED doing the work of my career choice, and I also realize there's no way in H*&l I would start another manufacturing company in the USA. No. Way.
BD is obviously feeling the pinch pretty hard from their earnings report JStan posted. I don't know how many employees BD has presently, but any "bump" in healthcare costs which are significant could lead to layoffs.
Also is the possibility of major sales downturns in the marketplace; this is an example of a "niche" business feeling marketplace volatility.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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I didn't want the topic of BD doing down to become a rant for healthcare, but it's just that most of family have been in medicine (dad, sis, oldest daughter) for ages and I've heard about the crazy dollar wrangling involved over what has become in many instance a most shameless cash cow. Perhaps BD is not sinking for that reason, if indeed they are, but I expect that as the crisis keeps worsening, and people actually start dying, and everyone involved with health care keeps demanding six figure pay checks, America the Brave is going to hit the speed wobbles like crazy.
I hope BD makes it. Peter Medcalf has always been a bro to me.
JL
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James Wilcox
Trad climber
Goleta/Virginia Lakes
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Looking at BD's 2013 10K report that was released in March, their operating expenses took a 30% increase over 2012. BD attributes the increase to the acquisition of POC Sweden and PIEPS Holdings. POC makes safety gear and PIEPS does beacons.
The 10K has a positive outlook for fiscal 2014.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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I am not anywhere close to a business or financial expert but it seems to me that BD is suffering the same fate that many companies are undergoing in a rapidly shifting technological/economic environment.
Perhaps the Siren Servers that are crunching reams of data ,as we speak , are telling the owners of BD something that cannot be ignored about their operating stats, their customers, and the future of their business --- in a way that has dictated that they currently pursue a policy of contraction, instead of stasis or expansion.
One thing is futuristically probably certain in the long run: don't be surprised if climbing equipment, in a decade or two , is largely manufactured locally , either in homes or small local factories where 3D printers running on downloaded design software will crank out rope, sling, carabiners ,and cams at fairly low price.
Imagine the savings in transportation and its environmental and energy costs if many consumer items are eventually produced in this or a similar manner.
The obvious downside will be a further hollowing out of the middle class in the massive loss of jobs---something you can see happening throughout developed societies even as we speak.
Think of what has happened to the music industry since the advent of digital networks---an industry that once supported a robust middle class.
Think of Kodak that once supported a work force of 140,ooo with a budget of 25 billion in its heyday. Today: Instagram , with a budget of I billion, employing 13 people.
We are indeed living, and will continue to live, in interesting and challenging times.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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BD was bought out by Clarus. The last venture Clarus was involved in was Armor Inc, a defense contractor that got into a lot of trouble, allegedly selling defective gear and attempting to pay bribes. It appears that the only asset Clarus bought to the merger in 2010 was losses carried forward. The merger might have been a good ploy to boost stock value so insiders can bail out. BD and Gregory provided the vehicle to do just that. Found this interesting blog from 2010 when the merger happened, the most interesting material is in the comments that follow the blog.
http://climbingnarc.com/2010/05/black-diamond-equipment-gregory-mountain-products-acquired-by-clarus-corp/
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