End the Climbing "Festivals"

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Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 28, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
I believe we have reached a point where the 847,639 annual climbing festivals need to end.

For a group of people who constantly claim they love adventure, solitude, wilderness, and dislike crowds...what gives? Why the endless, growing "festivals" that overload the resource, causing extensive damage to the natural environment, and ruin the recreation experience for non-participants?

The Red Rock Goatrope Clusterf*#k is a prime example. We have a "festival", the baby of a commercial enterprise - Mtn Gear, that has grown so large that it completely takes over every moderate crag in the place, sending groups of a dozen to indivdual crags for "clinics".

Here's a list of where the Goatrope Clusterf*#kers will be at Red Rock during the "rendezvous":

March 29 – March 30, 2014

Calico Basin/Red Springs

1) Moderate Mecca
2) Kraft Boulders
3) Cannibal Crag
4) Jabba the Hut
5) Riding Hood Wall
6) Dickies Cliff
7) Gnat Man Wall
8) 3rd class above Moderate Mecca
9) Cowlick Crag
10) Cut Your Teeth Crag
11) The Fox
12) Hide and Seek Crag
13) Third Class below Reptile Rock

First Pullout

1) Civilization Crags
2) The Hamlet
3) Iron Man Wall
4) The Fixx Cliff
5) The Oasis
6) Tuna and Chips Wall
7) Newcastle Crag
8) UItraman Wall
9) Aquifer
10) Viagra Tower
11) Scramblers Wall

Second Pullout

1) The Magic Bus
2) Black Corridor
3) Hunter S. Thompson Dome
4) Meet-Up Wall
5) USS Crag

Sandstone Quarry

1) Front Slab/Fender Bender
2) Wake Up Wall
3) Chrysler Crack

Willow Springs

1) Outhouse Wall
2) Black track Area
3) Ragged Edges Area
4) Tonto Area
5) Case Face

Are you kidding me?

Yes, I can (and will) be somewhere other than RR. I avoid these clusterfux like the plague, and even if I didn't I'm not hanging around the moderate crags anyway. But I remember when I was climbing those routes at those crags, and I know plenty of people who want to be climbing on those crags, who have that week off, and can't risk being c*#k blocked by these solitude loving commerical adventurers traveling in groups of 12, dominating entire crags.

And while sure, they are once a year at an area, the size and number of them continue to grow, making scheduling increasingly problematic. Crags are seasonal, one week could be a quarter or more of the prime sending weather for an area for the entire year. Time to end these ridiculous things once and for all.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 28, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
I never understood why any climber would want to go to one these things.

Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Mar 28, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
Maybe some folks like the sense of community these gatherings provide. For some people, climbing is more than just rock & routes.

FWIW- I have discovered that I have much more in common with climbers from the other side of the globe than I do with my neighbors or co-workers and these gatherings do provide a good way to meet up with like minded folks.

I too prefer the quiet solitude of remote, seldom visited places as opposed to the gym like atmosphere of the crowded crags you find at so many destinations but it is pretty easy to find solitude if you're willing to hike more than 30 minutes from the road.
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Mar 28, 2014 - 01:59pm PT
In the time it took you to write out that whole rant you could have loaded your truck and driven to Keyhole for a couple of days away from the madness.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
Nobody types that slowly.
Seamstress

Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
Sigh. You should see what one group does out here for its climbing courses. It isn't one weekend but several in the spring and in the fall. They arrive at the crack-o-dawn and move out to the crags before 8:00 AM. Then they coordinate rotating their groups through various areas so that no one from the general public has a prayer of getting on a route for the enitre weekend. Even though they aren't regulated as a commercial group, the climbers are paying for their classes and the club is exempted from all the commerical restrictions on group size, etc If it walks like a duck, it is a duck. I hate to see limits on climbers, but once money is involved, selfishness rules. I began climbing in crowded New England, but those folks know how to share. The team I speak of knows how to monopolize.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:09pm PT
Credit: poached from the web
tradryan

Big Wall climber
San Diego
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:11pm PT
I never understood why any climber would want to go to one these things.


I hear that. Although in their defense, those areas are already total goatroped charlie foxtrots every weekend anyway...
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
I sympathize, El Cap. The only "festival," if it is that, that I like to attend is Facelift, because it accomplishes a great deal of good, and generates even more good will. Plus, I get to see a lot of friends I otherwise wouldn't see. But I never do any climbing then, so maybe it's not a festival to begin with.

Otherwise, if I hear there's a "festival" or equivalent going on, I go elsewhere.

John
locker

Social climber
"Sh#t shack across from the city dump"
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:44pm PT


"I never understood why any climber would want to go to one these things."...


The "Herd instinct" ala Sigmund Freud...



and me either!!!...

NEVER been to a single one and don't plan to...

mongrel

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:49pm PT
Any commercial event on federal land is illegal unless they've gotten a use permit for it, done NEPA compliance, and so on. The EA needs to address issues of loss or limitations on recreational use by the non-paying public, among other things. If you want to improve the situation, take it to the BLM or whoever is in charge of Red Rock and insist they do their job. It's an increasing problem in many places where campgrounds and the recreational sites (in this case, crags) are a very limited resource during the prime season, which is exactly when these companies want to cash in on the public land. It's BS and the land managers should stamp it out.
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:53pm PT
I prefer no crowds - actually I avoid crowds and go so far as to try and avoid anyone but...when I was visiting my dad in NH a couple months ago the MWVCF was a great option for me to get away and climb some ice even though I knew zero climbers on the East Coast.

Sure...pretty much all the attendees were somewhat noobish (not all but most) and it was irritating but I did have fun; climbed, met a couple of cool youngsters and met some other vintage gear collectors which eagerly sold me some stuf...oh and I learned a few things too.

Easy solution is to go somewhere away from the festivals for what - 2 days? You'll find solitude from at least the noobs because they'll be 'goat roping' together.

moosedrool

climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 28, 2014 - 02:53pm PT
I would go to every one of them if I could.

But I like crowds. I climb in a gym too.

o_O

Moose
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
Tami,

I understand why you disagree. You're protecting your profession. After all, you literally train clownshows for a living. And these things put Ringling Bros to shame.

scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Mar 28, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
Well, the Woodson Shindigs were fun, but i guess not a lot like what you describe.
mongrel

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 28, 2014 - 03:42pm PT
WML,
Good! but a lot of commercial uses aren't. It would appear that either the general climbing public didn't make themselves heard about access, or that the BLM ignored them. Regardless, at least there was the proper process, whether one likes the outcome or not.
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Mar 28, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
Just make sure you leave BALCH FEST 2013 out of this mkay?
Credit: micronut
John Butler

Social climber
SLC, Utah
Mar 28, 2014 - 03:55pm PT
Well... looks like Panty Wall may still be available

;-)

jb
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2014 - 03:58pm PT
Not impressed, Weston. They'll leave more trash than they pick up and beat down more desert with their crag gangbangs with a dozen milling about the base of routes, than they will prevent putting up a sign.

If they had a service project shooting burros from helos, it would be infinitely more useful.

Meanwhile, BLM has the shittiest campground in existence serving the area, with inadequate capacity. But hey, we got a multi million dollar visitors center for Johnny Flathat to sit in and sip his coffee. Because of course the visitors need a modern architectural wonder to experience nature...rather than getting outside and actually going out to experience that nature.



Balch Fest is poison oak fueled anarachy. Not a "festival" in anything other than name. Fully exempt. Carry on with your Balch-self
speelyei

Trad climber
Mohave County Arizona
Mar 28, 2014 - 04:41pm PT
Huh.

Reminds me of this time I blundered into the aftermath of a "rainbow family" gathering.
overwatch

climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
Johnny flathat...ha! Like all good trolls it is based in truth
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 28, 2014 - 04:49pm PT
I never understood why any climber would want to go to one these things.


I guess people really love top roping.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 28, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
Man fu ck a festival. Especially anything to do with hoardes of n00bs. Based purely on greed at the expense of everyone else.

You want to be social go to a gym. Or a pub.
moosedrool

climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 28, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
Fluffy, get off my back!!!

lol

Moose
salad

Big Wall climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 06:27pm PT
everyone is just hoping to hook up and get lucky.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 28, 2014 - 06:38pm PT
Moose!

You're pro-festival and a gym rat??
enjoimx

Trad climber
SLO
Mar 28, 2014 - 06:51pm PT
RRR is for noobs basically. It does seem pretty stupid. I definitely would t go to that.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 28, 2014 - 06:55pm PT
If you really want to explore the power of SUCK check out an ice area post ice fest. In a cold dry year the climbs can be trashed for the rest of the season.
overwatch

climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 07:04pm PT
what are you going to do? I guess the only solution is to walk farther and do longer routes or don't be there
moosedrool

climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 28, 2014 - 07:07pm PT
Moose!

You're pro-festival and a gym rat??

You forgot the n00b part.

Guilty on all accounts.

Please don't hurt me.

lol

Moose
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 28, 2014 - 07:46pm PT
As rants go, this is pretty damned good. Never done the red rocks thing, but having Ammon as a teacher for a day would be pretty damned cool. And at least they are all grouped up so that there should be places free and available?
Flip Flop

Trad climber
Truckee, CA
Mar 28, 2014 - 07:53pm PT
Back in 1999 I stumbled on the Pfaltz Spring Climbers Festival in Germany. We were just looking for a farm with camping. As we drive up the valley we noticed that they had strung lanterns on various crags. Big drunken dancing hee-haw massive bonfire hoe down, deutscher-style. It was a lucky find on my birthday.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 28, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
I can think of dozens of areas with prime climbing and not only no lines, but no climbers. It is the benefit of being a skilled off road driver, a trained geographer and always being interested in exploring for over a third of a century in a target rich environment of the canyon country.


Get off your ass or quit yer bitchin' shlt talkers!.
(I bet that german thing was a blast)

I'm very encouraged by stuff like the Facelift.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Mar 28, 2014 - 09:34pm PT
Well, I've been there during one of the RR Rendezvous (not by choice) and, frankly, it didn't interfere at all with anything I wanted to do, which was longish trad routes, and not necessarily obscure ones either. As far as I could tell, the festival participants were clustered around short climbs near the road.

This was during the earlier years of the RRR, it may have become more obtrusive; that I can't say.

I think, by virtue of the era I come from and the things about climbing that attracted those of us who started then, that I'm as allergic to crowds as anyone. But like it or not, in the 56 years I've been at it, climbing has developed as a social activity often done by large usually convivial groups. This is especially true of bouldering and gym climbing, but sport climbing has also fostered the trend, since lines that do not depend on natural protection opportunities can be packed in parallel, putting large numbers of climbing teams together in close proximity.

The social scene attracts people who would not have been drawn to climbing in the old days, and their interest in getting together with others fuels the process of festival creation. Its all part of the evolution of the sport, and there is nothing we sometimes crabby old farts (and throwback young farts) can or should do about it, other than remember to stay away as much as possible from things we don't like, and be thankful for the fact that the gravitational inertia of the crowds keeps them away from a multitude of locales that require a bit more effort to get to, the kind of effort we grew up making anyway.

Those of us who enjoy using the lastest improvements in gear should remember that it is the increased climbing population that makes such things possible. So rack up with Totem cams, the latest Goretex, a fancy belay/rappel device, and the nth iteration of technical climbing shoes, walk a little further---perhaps a touch off the beaten track---and all will be well.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 28, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
Those of us who enjoy using the lastest improvements in gear should remember that it is the increased climbing population that makes such things possible.

not really. specious reasoning.

you're assuming that just because there are more people buying that sh#t it wouldn't have been designed without them.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 28, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
Yeah, Balch fest kicked Ass! And rather than closing off areas to climbers, it opened one up to them. A perfect introduction to area! Lots of climbing, good will, camaradrie and just fun!

There has to be a formula for this, maybe climbing events can't be above a certain size? Commercial sponsorship doesn't seem real great, either... Unless it's a no strings gift, rather than an attempt sell stuff on site or otherwise promote the sponsor over the event (?)
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Mar 28, 2014 - 09:44pm PT
TV wrote:

I can think of dozens of areas with prime climbing and not only no lines, but no climbers. It is the benefit of being a skilled off road driver, a trained geographer and always being interested in exploring for over a third of a century in a target rich environment of the canyon country.

Amen... headed out the door for a little romp in the sand box.
micronut

Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
Mar 28, 2014 - 10:04pm PT
Elcapinyoaz said BALCH FEST was "Poison Oak Filled Anarchy."

Awesome. That made my day.

Maybe its because it doesn't cost anything, gives you a rash and makes you sore for seven weeks. You think TECNU might sponsor a band for next year?
okie

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 10:24pm PT
Balch Fest was great.

I like the Fall Gathering at Quartz Mtn. in Oklahoma. Got to reconnect with some folks I hadn't seen in over 30 years. Nice small group party/climb/party/climb formula but the Quartz runouts are not recommended on a hangover.
goatboy smellz

climber
लघिमा
Mar 28, 2014 - 10:26pm PT
I thought all you Californias loved festivals?
It just looks so..... festive.


Camp Four on the Floor festival.



Joshua Festivus Tree


Good luck ElCap I'm sure you will find your happy place.

MisterE

climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
Awesome troll, Will.

Really astute stuff that tugs at our existential dichotomy.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2014 - 10:33pm PT
^^^
Goatboy, even though those are some nice looking young gentlemen, this isn't really the place to share your vacation photos.

If anyone one should care about this kind of thing, it's you Goaty. Guys struggling on 5.8 can't really afford to have all the n00b crags stacked with festival go-ers.

Seamstress knows what's up. Mounties, dirty Mounties.

SOLITUDE!



Adventure!
goatboy smellz

climber
लघिमा
Mar 28, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
Let us know when you are coming back
to the real western frontier to
toprope some 5.9's ElCap.

If you were really alpha you would go ahead
to Red Rocks and assert your dominance like
a real man instead of whining like a bitch online.

Bring your Boombox (do you still have one)
along with your tapes (still have those) of
AC/DC, Black Sabbath, and Stevie Wonder to blast
at the crags.

Scare those noob f*#kers off with attitude and don't
forget to wear lycra and scream like a cuckold when
you send your proj.

[/sarcasm smileyface]
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Mar 28, 2014 - 11:10pm PT
I just ask the organizers to take into account the impacts their events have on the regular climbing community...
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 28, 2014 - 11:20pm PT
Holy curmudgeon thread, Batman.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Mar 29, 2014 - 12:02am PT

you're assuming that just because there are more people buying that sh#t it wouldn't have been designed without them.

Well, to some extent yes, although the contorted logic of your sentence is not something I'd ever use. I'm assuming that financial incentives help motivate potential designers, and the more people who are interested in designing things, the more likely it is that someone will design something useful. But it isn't simply about design, but also about effective manufacturing that produces a high-quality product and a decent profit for the designer.

So, for both recruitment of designers and production of their ideas, you need to have an appropriately-sized markets, and the increase in climbing participants, brought about at least partially by changes in the culture of climbing, is surely responsible, if not for the growth itself, then at least for the rate of growth.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Mar 29, 2014 - 12:07am PT
I just thank my lucky stars I climbed in the 1950s before any of this was even thought of. Such simple times were a blessing.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Mar 29, 2014 - 12:08am PT
Tami,

I understand why you disagree. You're protecting your profession. After all, you literally train clownshows for a living. And these things put Ringling Bros to shame.

I only sort of disagree. I don't train clowns. I train acrobats. There IS a difference.

I have to admit I have little experience with climbing festivals so really don't have a clue.

But was inspired by the OP to post that picture.


Grin.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Mar 29, 2014 - 02:48am PT
Elcapinyoazz, So much fuss and judgement about how people choose to enjoy themselves when no inherent harm is done. Been to a couple and got to hang with some friends and "legends"; around a fire, in a hotel room, and on the cliffs. Had a good time, heard some great stories and tall tales, learned some useful things, and made some new friends. There's all kinds of ways of enjoying it out there. Most of the time I prefer a more solitary experience, but community can be fun, too.

PS Only been to the Syndicato/Granite Mountain and Oakdale festivals, but I can vouch for Grossman and Mimi putting together great events!
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Mar 29, 2014 - 03:02am PT
^^^ +1,
I ve been to a bunch! From Cali to Wyoming.

I even beat Conrad A. in a grip pulling contest at RRR.

I think it's a good way for the merchandisers to get a bunch of people psyched on there products. What other ideas for promos do you have for them to push products? Maybe the Super Bowl halftime show.
bergbryce

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Mar 29, 2014 - 03:05am PT
I feel ya. It's spring break week for CA community colleges.
That crag list is out of control. I recall not even 6 or 7 years ago the crag list for the red rock rendezvous was small and acceptable and really easy to work around. That is not a small impact in terms of number of crags that are going to be gang TR'd, not to mention the camping. Blah.

Go find solitude, blah blah blah... yeah yeah, we can all do that. That doesn't change the fact these huge groups change the character of a climbing area significantly during and after the fest.
x15x15

climber
Mar 29, 2014 - 11:03am PT
Yup, I got into this climbing gig as a college brat in the 80's as something I can do to get away from the BS of social structure.

Now its just one big group love hug...
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Mar 29, 2014 - 11:27am PT
Never been to one and have no interest. I got into climbing because I was basically a loner in high school, and at the time climbing was not a spectator sport. It was shrouded in romance and mystery for me. But a lot of people are different and love the social aspect. Here are a some images from the New River Rendezvous that I ripped from the internet. It seems more about partying than climbing, but everyone seems to be having fun.

Credit: Rankin
Credit: Rankin
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 29, 2014 - 11:41am PT
Some festivals produce noteworthy results. Proceeds from the Ouray Ice Festival makes it possible to employ three people to got out nightly and turn on, adjust and maintain the sprinkler system.....and then go out again in the morning to turn the system off, all free of charge.
WTF

climber
Mar 29, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
If there could be a festival based on peyote and top ropes that might interest me.


Studly

Trad climber
WA
Mar 29, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
Never attended a climbing festival, but i think its a great thing for the folks that enjoy it. Each to their own, but then again why pass up a opportunity to put folks down because youre so much cooler. Ive climbed in Red Rocks when the festival was on, and all I can say is if you cant find routes or locations where the Rendevous folks are not, then youre not climbing hard enough or hiking far enough. Look at it as a opportunity to get on routes you might not normally do. But way easier to whine about it all from the safety of your keyboard. The same folks that hold these festivals are many times the same people that spend their time fighting for climbing access and resonable rules regarding bolting, closures. etc.
fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Mar 29, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
Why wouldn't they fight for access and the right to bolt?

There's money to be made.

Whoring out of the local crag. Win-win for all involved!
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
youre not climbing hard enough or hiking far enough...way easier to whine about it all from the safety of your keyboard.

Atta boy Studly, you tell us! I just can't climb hard enough, and I should have to hike for 4 hours to mentor my kids because a commercial enterprise is taking up 37 crags. No sh#t, read that again THIRTY SEVEN!!!! crags.

It's all so easy to tell people to just go hike all day and not enjoy anything on those THIRTY SEVEN different crags from the safety of your keyboard.



limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Mar 29, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
I'm confused. If everyone is so into adventure and solitude why would you climb somewhere that is popular enough to attract a festival in the first place?

I've never been to one but I bet it could be fun!

Climbed in a popular spot once and ended up with another party on the same route so I didn't go back. No big deal, they were having fun and probably nice people.

On the other hand if RR is you local area it's probably frustrating. For a little bit and only in certain spots.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2014 - 02:07pm PT
only in certain spots

Calico Basin/Red Springs

1) Moderate Mecca
2) Kraft Boulders
3) Cannibal Crag
4) Jabba the Hut
5) Riding Hood Wall
6) Dickies Cliff
7) Gnat Man Wall
8) 3rd class above Moderate Mecca
9) Cowlick Crag
10) Cut Your Teeth Crag
11) The Fox
12) Hide and Seek Crag
13) Third Class below Reptile Rock

First Pullout

1) Civilization Crags
2) The Hamlet
3) Iron Man Wall
4) The Fixx Cliff
5) The Oasis
6) Tuna and Chips Wall
7) Newcastle Crag
8) UItraman Wall
9) Aquifer
10) Viagra Tower
11) Scramblers Wall

Second Pullout

1) The Magic Bus
2) Black Corridor
3) Hunter S. Thompson Dome
4) Meet-Up Wall
5) USS Crag

Sandstone Quarry

1) Front Slab/Fender Bender
2) Wake Up Wall
3) Chrysler Crack

Willow Springs

1) Outhouse Wall
2) Black track Area
3) Ragged Edges Area
4) Tonto Area
5) Case Face
overwatch

climber
Mar 29, 2014 - 02:14pm PT
For the record I totally agree with you. RRR is the bloated whale of guide/schools/festivals
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Mar 29, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
If RR was my local spot I would probably be frustrated too. Being anti social I tend to avoid these things, with the exception of the Facelift and or other specific work projects only. I like to give back, but that does not require a social aspect for me.
locker

Social climber
"Sh#t shack across from the city dump"
Mar 29, 2014 - 03:28pm PT


and then there is the environmental impact events like this have...

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 29, 2014 - 03:37pm PT
Which is worse?
1) Festivals?
B) competitions?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Mar 29, 2014 - 04:06pm PT
Its cool they (RR Rendevous) let you know which crags they will be at, so you can go to the 150 other crags that they are not at.
Greg Barnes

climber
Mar 29, 2014 - 05:26pm PT
70 posts whining about a big fun climber party? One where - gasp - climbers actually get to climb on real rock?

Wow. If you're not out climbing, don't you have something better to do? Like argue politics?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 29, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
bad time to bump the sushifest thread?
goatboy smellz

climber
लघिमा
Mar 29, 2014 - 06:59pm PT


Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 29, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
70 posts whining about a big fun climber party?

WRONG!

Your's is post #70, and it seems you aren't whining. ;-)

Greg, you should negotiate with Mountain Gear or whomever and make your guidebook the "Official Guidebook of the Red Rock Rendezvous"
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Mar 30, 2014 - 01:59am PT
Your's is post #70, and it seems you aren't whining.

Of course he's whining. It's second-order whining. He's whining about the people who are whining. And it doesn't seem as if he bothered to read those 69 posts, because not everyone who posted is whining. But now I, who was innocent of the charge of first-order whining, am, by virtue of this response, guilty of third-order whining; whining about the whining about the whining.

Ever use a word so much it suddenly loses all meaning and even stops sounding like a word? That just happened to me. I'd like to whine about it, but have lost the vocabulary to do so.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Mar 30, 2014 - 02:08am PT
It seems that a festival has actually been started here!


I propose we call it whinefest!
John M

climber
Mar 30, 2014 - 02:30am PT
LOL.. whinings whinefest held in lee whining.

elcap.. you got a legitimate beef. In my opinion. but maybe you went too far in wanting all festivals to end. They don't even go climbing at the oakdale festival.
Chim-Chim

climber
Mar 30, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
J-Tree is a great place for solitude and adventure....not.
JimT

climber
Munich
Mar 30, 2014 - 12:13pm PT
Curiously enough I was actually at RR during the rendevous, clearly unlike most posters here. Didn´t notice anything at all but there again anyone who goes to most of the venues listed and expects to enjoy themselves even on a normal day needs their brain examined.
I went to some canyon and climbed something wildly overgraded with huge holds to boost my ego, drank a fair amount of indifferent beer with some intelligent climbers and didn´t go near the campground.
Climbing festivals in Italy ARE cool, all the men can pull 8c, all the women are hot (and pull 8c as well) and the beer is generally better and free.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Mar 30, 2014 - 12:52pm PT
I saw some Italians at the beach once. They were all attractively bulgey.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 30, 2014 - 01:11pm PT
I find it difficult to overlook the vast sums of money and time Paul Fish gives to the Access Fund. Check out the financials sometime, they are online, click back a few years. He gives more than anyone - period - individual or corporate.

That fact clear, and given what a shithole I think RR sport climbing is, I really don't care if he levels the place. If a bunch of gumbies have been sucked out of other crags in NA in the process, all the better.

locker

Social climber
"Sh#t shack across from the city dump"
Mar 30, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
"J-Tree is a great place for solitude .......not."...



Not if you do like MOST people do and stick around Hidden Valley it isn't...

But if you want solitude you can find as much of that as you want out there...


;-)

Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 30, 2014 - 04:51pm PT
I've never waited in line for Throobbing Gristle, modern warfare, kamikaze, castaways, morongo man, maneater, emotional rescue, comfortably numb, or even GBU.
Gotta pick your poison....
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
Mar 30, 2014 - 05:37pm PT
I'm going to slap the word "n00b" on everything I use in climbing. That settles it. The world has the right to be forewarned that I'll be trespassing.

Or perhaps I should rather slap on the word "b00n"...for all of the hard - earned pennies I've squirreled away and then spent on gear, books, courses, etc.

Terrible quandry, either way, I'd say!
Chim-Chim

climber
Mar 30, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
El cap you're officially invited to Woodfest 2014. As is anyone looking for osme fun. Dank
thedogfather

Trad climber
Somewhere near Red Rocks
Mar 30, 2014 - 10:01pm PT
For what it's worth, none of the RRR clinics are out in the canyons so most multi-pitch trad areas are open. But, don't overlook the fact that the RRR is the same week as spring break so most of the classic multi-pitch routes also will be crowded. The week before the Rendezvous is almost as congested on sport crags as during the RRR. College groups show up at all the popular moderate sport crags and drape them with top ropes. Even without the RRR, the last two weeks in March are not good times to expect to be able to get solitude on the popular sport crags or to be alone on a classic multi-pitch.
10b4me

Sport climber
www.tenbeephotography.com
Mar 31, 2014 - 12:01am PT

Some festivals produce noteworthy results. Proceeds from the Ouray Ice Festival makes it possible to employ three people to got out nightly and turn on, adjust and maintain the sprinkler system.....and then go out again in the morning to turn the system off, all free of charge.

Thanks for mentioning that, Jim.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Mar 31, 2014 - 12:09am PT
Steve Molis and I were there during Spring Break in 2010; account with lots of photos at http://www.supertopo.com/tr/A-Week-in-Red-Rock-151-A-Photo-Essay/t371n.html.

We really weren't bothered by other spring-breakers at all. The one climb we would have had trouble on, the very popular and not at all out-of-the-way Birdland, we simply got on early (first ones in when the gate opened by getting there fifteen minutes before the 6 AM opening time) and were down on the trail and on our way out by the time the crowds took over:

Credit: RG

We did have to rappel past some of them, but that went pretty smoothly.
rmagner15

Trad climber
Cathedral city, ca
Mar 31, 2014 - 01:49am PT
Amen.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Mar 31, 2014 - 09:09am PT
Continuing on the spring break strategy theme, early starts on everything work really well. The campground is typically frigid and windy at 5 AM, and this keeps folks in their tents. After the campground experience one spring, I decided a room would make a big difference. Steve and I stayed in a hotel, got a mini-fridge for our room so we could scarf down a breakfast without hardly even getting out of bed, and beat everyone to the climbs (when there was anyone to beat) every day we went out.

Special trick for East Coasters: don't change you watches, stay on EDT for your entire visit. You'll be running three hours behind of local time which makes your 7 AM local 4 AM. Sleep in until 9 AM and you're still gettin' up at 6 AM local time. Of course, this doesn't help with the early-morning campground hypothermia, but it works really well from a hotel room.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Mar 31, 2014 - 10:03am PT
Indian Creek is easier.....get to any climb by 9:00 and you'll be the first one there.
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Mar 31, 2014 - 10:18am PT
Not sure how you can say that Jim. Indian Creek is simply the most crowded area I know, including the areas I've been to in Europe. That place is being loved to death. It used to be that if you avoided Battle of the Bulge and the Cat Wall you could find some solitude. Not any more. It's worse than the gym.
locker

Social climber
"Sh#t shack across from the city dump"
Mar 31, 2014 - 10:20am PT


^^^

Well, one of them must be right...

LOL!!!...

overwatch

climber
Mar 31, 2014 - 10:48am PT
Or it is something in the middle

I don't go anywhere during holidays...not worth the aggravation
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Mar 31, 2014 - 11:31am PT
They're both right.
granite_girl

Trad climber
Oakland
Mar 31, 2014 - 01:28pm PT
I don't like festivals in general, of any kind, but I happened to be in Vegas at the same time Red Rock Rendezvous was happening this year, so I decided to check it out.

1. Ammon's Big Wall clinic was superb. Well worth the price of admission alone.

2. I watched a wee little boulderer girl try an off-width for the first time at a clinic. She had never even climbed a crack before. She kicked ass. Her plan, when she gets home, is to seek out all the off-widths she can find, and kick their asses.

In terms of corporate sponsorship, Smartwool let me "win" a pair of their socks. The Petzl reps sold me on their jumars, and Osprey sold me on a new pack (yes, I really do need jumars, a new pack, and high quality socks). I can't really think of a better way to pick a product than through demo and by talking directly to the manufacturer and experienced users.

Make of my experience what you will.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 31, 2014 - 02:30pm PT
Crap, I just realized that I was at Red Rocks last spring break or the year before with my kid when that was all occurring. Pretty cool to go out climbing with your boy.

We headed to City of Rocks for his spring break and we got a few warm ups in when the wind whipped up and the snow started in on us. It was raining in Zion but dry in Vegas so we drove right there. Booked a casino room for $22 a night, which was a blessing not so much that we had hat showers and cold beer but that the campsite was overflowingly full. ($15 a night to put up with that windy camping BS). But here's the good part, my noobish lad and his buddy (another noob) never really noticed any crowds except for the first climb we tried. (Olive Oil), and we just wandered up the canyon a bit to the first free line and didn't see a soul for 5 or so pitches until when we topped out. Like R.Gold says (first post, his last one on whining still has me cracking up), lot of multipitch routes to do and available and it was more crowded that normal with all the college kids. Yet we didn't feel crowded.

The weather was perfect. So warm that we even got a day of limestone up on Mt Clark where the kids could do harder lines clipping bolts per their custom and hearts content. Damned good times, both of my shoulders were wrecked from playing too hard, so it was nice to not be climbing hard stuff. Here's my sons first gear lead:





Most of the time we were lapping long routes, and if there was a party ahead moving slow we moved to the next line. Damn. good. times. Yowza. Never saw the roadshow but it looks like on paper that they are clogging up the toilet. In actuality, that wasn't the case at all. This post upthread clued me in that I was there
" But, don't overlook the fact that the RRR is the same week as spring break so most of the classic multi-pitch routes also will be crowded. The week before the Rendezvous is almost as congested on sport crags as during the RRR."

Plenty of classics were free...but I'm not naming them publicly so that I can still get on them next go round:-)
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 3, 2014 - 03:22pm PT

What's this? A climbing picture shuts down all conversation? I can delete it, sorry to have offended.

moosedrool

climber
lost, far away from Poland
Apr 3, 2014 - 03:29pm PT
lol, Couchmaster.

Next time try to add one or two comments about Obama ;)



Elcap went silent after Dan invited him to the Woodfest. Chicken?

;)

Moose
Sanskara

climber
Apr 3, 2014 - 03:29pm PT
Haha,

I spend much of my time climbing at the Gunks. It is so busy it is much worse than even a climbing festival most weeks.

So many complain of this or that instead if just enjoying what is for what it is. I say just move left or move right. Keep walking and just climb something else. It's all climbing its all fun!

And I don't much like people so I am really lost when one if my social butterfly type partners gets annoyed by a crowds. Wait isn't this what you like, being social, people. I'm confused?

I do hate hacked out ice post ice fest but again just keep moving and you will find something to your liking. Most of the hacked out sh#t is the easy stuff I already climbed early season anyway.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Apr 3, 2014 - 03:30pm PT
Couchmaster, yeah you big jerk, whats the idea of posting photos of climbing? It should be controversial and obnoxious, like me!! hey, heard you should have got a ticket yesterday but you narrowly averted it...
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Apr 3, 2014 - 03:34pm PT
The RRR can be good or bad, depending on the person I guess.

I went for several years and had a good time, but the last couple years weren't very good for a number of reasons that aren't worth getting in to as they are my issues and don't reflect the whole.

I think they have a fairly good balance between the mass amount of people they put on the crags, and what they give back in conservation projects, introducing new people to the sport, and dollars into the local economy. For myself, I just wasn't getting enough out of it to justify the cost.

As many have said, you generally know where the clinics are, and it's not too hard to find places to climb. We spent Saturday climbing with Harrison out at Moderate Mecca, had a great time, and had no crowding issues with the few people that were there. For that matter, I've never had problems finding a place to climb during Spring Break or the RRR. If you head out this way during that time, just shoot me an email, I can send you to a few places where you can climb all you want.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Apr 3, 2014 - 07:35pm PT

women (of both sexes) feel more comfortable in planned, organized settings
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Apr 3, 2014 - 10:31pm PT
Why can't we all just get along together?

Sexis tchokes, komrades.
Sexis tchokes, komrades.
Credit: Sum Wun

Keep Pokemon alive, while we're at it.

Speaking of Harrison. :0)

ElCapPirate

Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
Apr 4, 2014 - 12:28am PT
I’ve been going to the Red Rock Rendezvous since they started it 11 years ago. I did miss one year a few years back because I was on a work gig. The first year I was Jim Bridwell’s helper, along with Brian McCray. I’ve been an instructor for the Big Wall clinic since the second event.

I take a lot of pride in my clinic, I try and teach good ethics such as clean climbing always takes precedence and only use a hammer if it’s necessary and excepted on the route you are on. I emphasize that I frown on heads, only use them if nothing else works, craft the placement well and leave it for everyone following.

I can personally say that we leave the crag cleaner every single year we come and go. This year I saw several of the participants cleaning up garbage left behind from other users, not necessarily from climbers… lots of non climbing traffic in these areas used by the RRR.

In my opinion setting up a few top ropes or fixed lines to jug on for up to 16 people a day (two clinics of 8), is a lot less impact than if 8 different parties were to try to do the same. Most of the instructors have been going to the same crag for years and we know how to minimize our use.

I’ve been to these same crags throughout the year and have been absolutely astonished, even on weekdays, how some groups will take over the entire place. I’ve seen up to five top ropes set up by a group of six.. so, really it’s nothing new to this area. I just laugh and move to something else.

One of the other biggest bonuses for me is I get to see so many olde friends I hadn’t seen in a while… and make new friends along the way.

Lastly, all you haters are missing out on ALL the free beer, good beer too, ha ha.

Be respectful, have fun and live free!!!

Cheers!!!!!!

Oh, and thanks for the compliment granite_girl. :-)


Clinic from '13, RRR's X year
Clinic from '13, RRR's X year
Credit: Eric Odenthal
overwatch

climber
Apr 4, 2014 - 12:45am PT
Good post sir
10b4me

Sport climber
www.tenbeephotography.com
Apr 4, 2014 - 12:50am PT
Ammon, I was in your Big Wall Clinic@ RRR, about for years ago. Learned a lot, and had fun.
Thanks.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Apr 4, 2014 - 12:54am PT


...I just laugh and move to something else.


If you're not "into it," moving on sure seems like a pretty easy thing to do...
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