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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 20, 2014 - 10:13am PT
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I don't think this has been posted up your side of the pond yet, but Pete's biography is now available.
The authors are John Sheard and Mark Radtke.
Mark's web page describes the book as;
Pete Livesey – Fast and Free. A Collected Biography Compiled and Produced by John Sheard and Mark Radtke With Articles by; Geoff Birtles Martin Berzins John Cleare Jean Claude Droyer Jim Eyre Peter Gomersall Dennis Gray Ron Fawcett Jill Lawrence Peter Livesey John Long Nicho Mailander Mark Radtke John Sheard and Many More. Publication Date 1st March 2014 All proceeds to ‘Take Heart’ the cardiac charity Leeds General Infirmary
Amazon link is.....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pete-Livesey-Stories-Rock-Climbing-Legend/dp/1910077011
I've ordered mine, it will no doubt be a rivetting read.
Regards all,
Steve
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 20, 2014 - 10:20am PT
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Livesey was one of the best British climbers of his generation, he also was the only Brit, and I climbed with many, who I didn't enjoy climbing with. Taciturn to a fault with little of the famous dry British wit to fall back on.
Might still be a good read, he was a leading figure during a very colorful period in British climbing.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2014 - 10:32am PT
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Hi Jim,
Livesy was propably the most influential (for me) British climber of that period. Whilst he was perhaps not the technically the 'best', he was certainly up there with many, and was by far the most travelled and prolific in that time.
I read a recent quote, and I'm paraphrasing here about his activities at the Leeds Wall, an early training venue at Leeds Uni. 'Pete would come along and traverse while we did hard problems - we thought that was because he was crap, in fact it was because he had a plan'. Something to that effect.
I never met him formally, but was climbing parallel to him on one of his big Lakes routes during the FA (which he did with John Sheard). It was spectacularly impressive....
For sure he did produce a crap guidebook (to the South of France) but it got me there and I do keep going back! And reading his (and some of your) adventures pushed me to up my own game, so I have a lot to thank him for.
Regards,
Steve
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 20, 2014 - 10:39am PT
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He was certainly prolific and well travelled. I met him first in Yosemite. He didn't have the engaging personality of other Brits I met at that time like Rab Carrington, John Cunningham, Pete Minks, Mo Antoine, Tiger Mick Coffee, Al Harris and others but he was a leading light during a fascination chapter in British climbing history.
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snyd
Sport climber
Lexington, KY
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Mar 20, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
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Livesy ran the cafe at Malham Cove in Yorkshire for years. All my English buddies called him "The shabby chipper".
Met the guy when he sold me a "flapjack". I thought I was getting pancakes. I guess that I should have known better.
Anyhow, I stirred his pot with tales of his now very popular Crack-A-Go-Go with 5 nice fat bolts.
Good Times...
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Mar 20, 2014 - 12:46pm PT
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He was certainly prolific and well travelled. I met him first in Yosemite. He didn't have the engaging personality of other Brits I met at that time like...
I seem to remember you saying this a year or so ago. I thought he HAD got an engaging personality. OK, a drier than dry version of a dry British sense of humour, but mischievous like you wouldn't believe! Or maybe it's just that he was the only climber that I've ever considered remotely as a hero figure.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 20, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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Ha, ha Coz....a selective memory that doesn't extend to where I just put my reading glasses.
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Urnst
Big Wall climber
UK
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Mar 24, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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Some great tales from Yosemite in this collection. I think you'll discover he had a wonderful and pretty unique sense of humour when you read this book.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Mar 24, 2014 - 12:26pm PT
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There you go again, J-Do. You said the same thing about Denz too. Get a clue; Livesey was one of the funniest climbers Vandiver and I ever met. We were very fond of him and Ron F. Those two nicknamed me Captain America and it went on from there. We hung out with them during the period when they did the FFA of Crack-a-go-go; what feather that was. I will always miss him. Truth be told, Donini, you were not exactly a barrel of laughs then, need I point out? Who are you really commenting about?
He and Fawcett were certainly competitive and arrestingly skilled and so perhaps at times you felt the muscle beneath the skin with them, so to speak. That whole camp of Brits was great company, as well.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 24, 2014 - 01:43pm PT
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I am advised my copy is in the mail, I'll let y'all know what I think.
Steve
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 24, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
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I'm glad you enjoyed their company Peter. You can respect and not connect.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2014 - 04:59pm PT
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'Don't let the buggers start talking about me after I'm gone'
I should start by saying that the book is unusual. In the UK we tend to take the piss out of our heroes when they are alive (It's how we show our respect)and ignore them for at least sixty years after they die. Only then are we likely to be nice about them.... This book however is not premature.
I found the book a compelling read. It's a compendium of essays about , or by Livesey. Some had been published in magazines back in the day, and are familiar, others I'd not read before. The list of contributors is impressive, with essays by some who will (should) be known; Long, Droyer, Berzins, Fawcett ('Tap' to Livesey),and Mailander, amongst the 47 pieces that describe his remarkable talent,impact and humour.
Dennis Gray's essay rightly describes him a sporting polymath. I knew he was a 'good' runner, but not that he came third (as a junior) in the Seniors Amateur Athletic Association national championships (Track to you in the US), he was a good enough slalom canoeist to be considered for Olympic selection, was an outstanding caver, a climber of remarkable ability and a successful mountain runner and orienteer with numerous podium placements and won a 'Survival of the Fittest' competition beating an impressive selection of world class athletes. I am exhausted merely recounting it.
The book makes clear the national and international influence Livesey had on our game, it's scope and impact, particularly on British climbing, but also on the US at a key time in the valleys development. I was much less aware of his impact on the European scene through contact with the likes of Droyer and Mailander. It is indeed quite a record.
While some of the elements are understandably poignant about Pete, it is largely celebratory, the man's wicked sense of humour shines through in several essays. His sins too are recounted, some chipping here and there, but these were minor transgressions, and in the balance of things are of little significance. (That's aging for you!)
There is also a selection of photos, only a couple of which I had seen before. That of him soloing New Diversions in the valley seems typical and many young rock gods would do well to aspire to his physique - Birtles' photo of him; 'You Too Could Have a Body Like Mine' encapsulates the sheer audacious physicality of the man.
It is a loving compilation of the man's character, and abilities, a real labour of love I suspect, and John Sheard and Mark Radtke should be congratulated, along with all of the contributors who wrote about Pete for the book.
I think it's fabulous, and that you should all buy it!
Steve
'Fast and Free' Pete Livesey, Stories of a Rock Climbing Legend,332 pages. Compiled and Produced by John Sheard and Mark Radtke. ISBN 978-1-910077-01-6. Profits from the book go to Take Heart, a medical charity based in Yorkshire.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Thanks for the review Steve, That’s a book I’ll get for sure.
I met the author,John Sheard, that summer at Snell Field when you and I were there in 1976. I would like to get a signed copy from him. If anyone has a contact, send me a private message.
The mention of the Leeds bouldering wall brought back memories of spending a rainy day there with Gib and Al Manson. I remember working that hideous traverse!
Rick
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Urnst
Trad climber
UK
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Hi Rick A, send me your postal address and I'll get a signed copy out to you.
Sheardy recounts tails of bouldering with you in Cham.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Blakey
Thanks for the review.
Urnst
Signed copy? Pete Livesey? That's extraordinary...
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Sounds like a cool book. Livesey was hugely influential on the British climbing scene. I started climbing in 1976, he was the person doing all the hardest first ascents.
What was so cool, to us back then, was that he was just a rock climber in search of the hardest rock climbs. Not a hint of any desire for mountains or ice-climbs or Scottish gullies or "Greater Ranges" or any of that stuff. Competitive, driven, focused on hard free climbing on warm, dry, sun-kissed rock--exactly what we wanted, too.
Of course, he was not really the first. But his arrival coincided with a new magazine, Crags that more or less worshipped Livesey's approach--warm, dry rock. It either ignored or made fun of mountaineering, alpinism, climbing history, old guys, clubs. The "other" UK magazine, Mountain, seemed dull and irrelevant.
Crags and LIvesey had a symbiotic relationship; each thrived on the success of the other. Together they influenced a whole generation of new, unknown climbers to train really f**cking hard, lead the hardest routes, solo routes just a little bit easier. An egalitarian vision. If there was to be a hierarchy, an elite, it would be ruthlessly ability-driven, not derived from reputation or cronyism or Mt Everest.
It was so ideal, so simple: UK's version of "a rope, a rack, and the shirt on your back."
(of course, 30+ years on, it all seems so naive...but hey...)
Anything from Jill Lawrence in there?
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2014 - 05:07pm PT
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Yes,
There's an essay by Jill on Right Wall, She belayed Livesey on the FA and was the first British woman to do the route. (For the benefit of others, I know you know that ;-) )
Steve
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Sean Kelly
Trad climber
Devon, UK
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Jill Lawrence led the first female ascent of Right Wall some time after the original ascent, and Pete actually got a casual passer-by to hold his ropes. Even the FA details in some of the guides are wrong. You are probably thinking of Pete's first free ascent of R. Edwards's Resurrection nearby.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2014 - 05:41pm PT
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^^^
Hi Sean,
Well, quoted from Jill's essay......
'I still hadn't been climbing a year when Pete decided to go for Right Wall and I was pretty much in awe of his ability and ambition. That wall looked scary and completely blank to me and it never entered my head to even consider following his lead, but I obtained some satisfaction in knowing he trusted me to handle the rope to safeguard his ascent of a futuristic and daunting new route'......
And so on.
In Extreme Rock, Livesey is listed, with no second. There's no comment in Williams' Llanberis guide about a second or belayer. I think given Jill's piece and subsequent description of her ascent in 84 that I'm (very) inclined to believe her account...... In addition I doubt JS and MR would have let such an error of memory to stand.
So you see - A good reason to get the book, there's probably other stuff you don't know or have got wrong as well ;-)
Regards,
Steve
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Sean Kelly
Trad climber
Devon, UK
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Hi Blakey
I met Jill Lawrence sometime later at a club dinner at which we were both 'Speakers'. It transpired that her ascent of Right Wall was with Gill Price, also present that evening. Word of mouth! She certainly said nothing about following Pete up the climb. Another friend of mine at that time (went by the name of 'Little Al') saw Ron Fawcett do an early repeat ascent, possibly the second. Undaunted, he followed to make the probable third ascent. again word of mouth evidence. I certainly can't explain what JL was saying in her article (about her following PL on RW), although she did follow him on Foil and possibly the first free ascent of Resurrection?
Sean
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2014 - 05:45pm PT
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I met Jill in the Cochise Stronghold a couple of times in 2003....
She didn't follow Livesey - she never claimed to do that, as she recounts in her piece, she belayed him.
She estimates the second ascent (Tap) was two years later. Her ascent in 1984 was with Rosie Andrews.... I don't know how to square the circle of your recollections and Jill's writing.
But enough of me paraphrasing the contents, you should buy it.
Regards,
Steve
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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May 12, 2014 - 10:07am PT
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Got the book and heartily recommend it. It’s a collection of short pieces by Livesey and many others, and credit goes to the authors because the stories together give a vivid portrait of a multi-talented athlete, who led a very interesting life while performing at the highest levels of caving, climbing, and trail running.
The Brits have always been more candid than the Yanks regarding competition in rock climbing. American heroes like Royal Robbins were certainly driven in part by competition, but it rarely showed up in their writing. Reading some Americans, one would get the impression that American climbers were motivated only by the romance of the great walls and lyrical sunsets which brought to mind symphonic passages. Fast and Free is not embarrassed to focus on the competitive aspects of rock climbing, appropriately so because Livesey came to climbing from a background of organized competition in running.
There is much to enjoy here for the Yosemite climber. The 70s Yosemite scene is viewed through the lens of Livesey and his friends, engaging with the locals on the Yosemite stop of the unofficial World Climbing Tour. There are vignettes on Livesey’s ascents of some of the best free routes of the 70s: with Fawcett on early ascent of Astroman (“only the best route in the world”); with Fawcett again on the 2nd ascent of Space Babble (Calling down to taunt the locals who were watching, “Piece of piss this, when does it start to get hard?”); FA of Moratoriam (which Livesey describes as “the spiritual home of laybacks, whence came all the other little laybacks of the world”). There is also an unexpected, ribald appreciation by Livesey of the regular route on Fairview (“The tallest is Fairview Dome, an 1800 foot sweep of granite, perfectly circular, with curves that ensure its place as the most perfect and biggest breast in the world.”)
The battle royale between American and British climbers, then the best in the world, is one of the themes, observed with the usual British cheek (Livesey calling up to Hot Henry on the lead during his first visit to Britain, “I think you better get a move on kid, you’re supposed to be pretty good”).
If you read only this book you’d think the Brits triumphed over their American rivals at every turn. However, the fact is that the competition was pretty even. Bachar’s on sight solo of Moratorium (which nearly killed him) was the riposte to the insult of Livesey snatching the first ascent of this impressive line. In the story of Livesey and Fawcett’s ascent of Astroman, there is an account of the dehydrated Brits reaching the last hard face pitch at the top, originally led free by Long, and a close reader will note that Livesey records that Fawcett stepped on a piton.
And Mike Graham earns a proud footnote in the appendix. He eliminated a point of aid from the limestone test piece, Bastille, something Livesey couldn’t do on one of his home crags. Livesey is cited for his ascent of Bastille which eliminated the aid down to one piton, and Graham’s complete first free ascent is given second billing. Not quite cricket, that.
John Long’s story of making Livesey’s acquaintance on the FFA of the Chouinard Herbert has the honor being the first story in the book and it showcases Long as a mature writer at the height of his powers. Here is
John relating the approach to Sentinel:
The first complete sentence I said to Pete was slow the f*#k down. The guy hiked like an antelope. “Better throttle it back and save it for the route”, I said. He picked up the pace.
But John has the last laugh, as Livesey declines to follow the last hard pitch led by Long because of the specter of a long, swinging fall. A rational decision certainly, and one can fault the leader for failing to adequately protect the second; but nevertheless, you can tell that John relished the fact that Livesey wouldn’t risk following moves that John had made.
Ah well, I must admit that these ancient rivalries can still stir the blood even 40 years after. (Full disclosure: I may lack objectivity. I took a nice fall trying Livesey’s signature route in Wales, Right Wall, at Dinas Chromlech in 1977, and the Welsh guidebooks crowed about this in subsequent editions. Damn you Livesey!)
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Feb 12, 2015 - 10:36am PT
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Nice review, Rick A!
Diving in mostly at random, I've read about half the book. John Long's essay is great. Livesey's own contributions stand out, to this day. Which could be a criticism; surely there are climbing writers familiar with Livesey who could give a deep, thoughtful assessment of the man and his legacy, beyond the obvious "he was a great climber/caver/runner.....
It almost feels as if Pete was born in his early 20s, already a sophisticated, canny, thrifty, competitive caver and climber. What drove him? What would Jim Perrin say? Perhaps the lack of deeper analysis is in itself a statement of sorts. His partners and contemporaries still unsure what to make of what happened. As with the changes wrought by Maggie Thatcher, there was no going back.
Anyway, great to be reminded of just how revolutionary his "professional" approach was, even if sometimes it became a bit "too professional." And how easy he made it all look.
Drove his competitors nuts. Inspired generations of young nobodies to think they, too, could do amazing things. Some of us kinda missed the bit about having to be a naturally gifted athlete to begin with....
"American heroes like Royal Robbins were certainly driven in part by competition, but it rarely showed up in their writing"
You should re-acquaint yourself with his Half Dome Tis-a-Ack story. Perhaps the best thing Robbins ever wrote.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2015 - 11:00am PT
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Somewhere (possibly in this book) I read a quote from Steve Bancroft who observed Pete at the Leeds Uni wall, and 'thought he was crap, he didn't have much talent - but what he did have was a plan'
Indeed he did!
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Feb 12, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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Why did Pete quit climbing?
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crunch
Social climber
CO
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Feb 12, 2015 - 12:29pm PT
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Why did Pete quit climbing?
Good question, AP.
My take:
Perhaps he was a victim of his own success.
Several writers talk of one first ascent he did, The Golden Mile, as being his last route. His "swansong."
This was as hard as any he'd done. Yet this was 1980. He'd been at the top for a decade.
At first this must have been easy for a climber of his talent and skills and work ethic. In the late 1960s the top climbers in the UK were the previous generation, the likes of Joe Brown, Paul Ross, Whillans, Pete Crew, etc. No training, little or no midweek climbing. Talented amateurs. They were bold, able to succeed despite being physically unfit.
What Livesey realized, before anyone else, was that if he combined that same level of boldness (he already had this) with specific training for finger strength and stamina (he understood how this worked from brief forays into other competitive sports) he should be able to perform at a higher level.
He succeeded. And fast. But this success created questions, envy, scrutiny. Out of that came a new generation who followed his example, began training. Out of them, some were yet stronger. They in turn developed better ways to train.
For a few years he stayed one step ahead, but by 1980 this was becoming more of a struggle. There were emerging young kids who were about to surpass his best efforts, on both sides of the Atlantic. He must have been acutely aware of this. His The Golden Mile was no long cutting edge, it was just another hard climb, no big deal any more. But it was the best he could do.
So he stepped down. Perhaps he did not want to be a has-been, gradually declining in skills, frustrated, surrounded by young upstarts who made him look old and slow. He did not have the kind of deep connection with the culture of climbing, a la Ken Wilson or Chris Bonington (or Steve Roper, John Long, Pat Ament, Peter Haan, Rick A) to keep him engaged with the sport.
Or, how about this, more nuanced, more Livesey-like: at one time he had relished being the upstart maverick, out-climbing the entire climbing establishment, beating them at their own game. By 1980 he had become the establishment. A role he was not equipped to deal with.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Sierra Vista
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2015 - 12:55pm PT
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Crunch,
All of the things you said.... A slightly shorter view. Climbing was changing, bolt protected climbing was emerging, and the advent of 'sport climbing' removed the boldness (which he had in spades)from the game. He was very disparaging of this. He revelled in the mix of bold and hard.
When he 'quit' climbing he took up orienteering and fell running, with great success. He was still competing and getting podium places when he was diagnosed with Pancreatic Cancer in 97.
Steve
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