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plasticluvr
Gym climber
ft lauderdale fl
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 9, 2014 - 12:30pm PT
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http://www.deepestvalley.com/sign-the-regpa-petition/
Renewable energy is a good thing, but this place is just to special for development.
I think other sites should be considered.
Taking this away from future generations would be a huge mistake.
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Capt.
climber
some eastside hovel
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They take our water.Now they want the land as well. Don't they have sun down there?
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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before the hyperbole gets out of control, the document is a planning document which establishes some areas the county prefers for renewable energy development. it does not necessarily invite people in to build wind or solar plants.
The thing people don't seem to realize is that DWP already owns the land, and realistically, the county probably can't do much to stop them from developing energy on their land if they want to.
CEQA seems to be a more likely avenue of stopping DWP from building solar plants than county opposition.
That being said, iterations of this document have suggested the county and its citizens largely support solar plants in the owens valley. I think that's bullsh#t.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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"Modern Science?" Nah, just the cheapest way to earn the most money in the long run....and not paying attention to the "real" long run. imho, lynne
Edit: and yes, I love the Eastside, but Ouray and Ridgeway are fast stealing my heart. :)
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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I signed it and wrote a letter too.
I am sure there is a better place for the solar ranch.
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fairweather
Mountain climber
Roseville, CA
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Mar 10, 2014 - 12:08am PT
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How about all open land along I10 between Indio and Phoenix to start. There's already a few of them out there. No comparison in scenery to the Owens Valley. There are plenty of places to go rather than Owens Valley.
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fairweather
Mountain climber
Roseville, CA
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Mar 10, 2014 - 12:55am PT
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I may have been misunderstood....
I'm not at all for green energy.
The whole climate change thing is a sham, but that's for another thread.
I'm just saying, if you have to build them - do it somewhere else.
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pa
climber
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Mar 10, 2014 - 08:33am PT
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Apparently, solar farms are becoming obsolete. Why create the supply hundred of miles from the demand?
Many countries in Europe are finding it more efficient to place the solar panels on the millions of rooftops and structures already existing in the cities.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Mar 10, 2014 - 11:25am PT
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The problem with residential-based solar panels is that large companies have a harder time charging you for them in perpetuity.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 10, 2014 - 12:45pm PT
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^^^^^^ YUP!! This stuff ought to be kept in the cities where access to transmission lines is easier. Put the source closer to the need. Period. One of the downsides of these utilities not being "public" anymore is that profit is the main motive. There were downsides to the old system too....
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Mar 11, 2014 - 01:13pm PT
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I like Andy Selters' article too. While it may be more complicated for DWP to integrate solar energy generation into the urban landscape, It would bring us several steps closer to a decentralized community based power generation system that makes sense in the long run. Large scale generation systems and long distance transmission networks are inefficient and have an unavoidably large environmental impact wherever they are located. Count me in with those who would like to preserve the unique natural environment of the Owens Valley.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 11, 2014 - 01:27pm PT
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I dont want those "solar ranches" ANYWHERE Dingus,, ive seen one and it made me ill. I think its the biggest crock of crap ever.
I am with Ron on this one..... and I hate the GD windturbines also... killing Eagles, Condors and making lots of landscapes very ugly.
Been out to Kelso Valley lately??????
All of that GREEN stuff, that is subsidized by TAX Payers, is BS. Cause it has almost zero addition to the grid.
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barry ohm
Trad climber
escondido, ca
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Mar 11, 2014 - 01:30pm PT
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And the people on the East side Dont use Electricity ?
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 11, 2014 - 01:51pm PT
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Ron, putting these things in the hills of San Diego, or southern California for that matter, is asking for trouble. Why? Fire hazard. These things need to be IN THE CITIES that they support generally speaking. On the roofs of offices, parking structures, and private residences is best and very cost effective to tie into the grid.
None of these monstrosities need be placed in Owens Valley, the Mojave, or any other place in the boonies to supply energy to Southern California.
I do have solar panels on my house. Covers all household electricity for us.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 11, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
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"How dare you! NOT in my backyard."
A fair observation, but some places are better choices for such projects than others, for reasons beyond strict utilitarianism & functionality.
And you can bet yer arse that if they put such a plant in one of your favorite Woodsford Canyon-like places, you'd be bitching to high heaven right here.
Nope...you're just being a muckraking rabblerouser with comments like that. Back to your hole, troll!
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Mar 11, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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They need something to cover up that dusty old lake. Might as well cover it with solar panels. It will keep the dust down and probably improve air quality.
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barry ohm
Trad climber
escondido, ca
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Mar 11, 2014 - 02:23pm PT
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Actually, San Diego-Imperial valley has a explosion of windfarm solar projects. Do I think the East side is the place to build solar? No. What I do think is the USA needs a plan for th next 25 years and a plan for the nxt 100 years for our Electricity demand, Water storage and treatment, sewage and infrastructure. Most of our infrastructure was developed 50-100 years ago and we are all living off the Backs of that generation. While I consider myself to be Environetally aware, I have spent much of my life working for a Utillity and see solar projeects nothing more than a bandaid of a bigger issue, Cheers
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 11, 2014 - 02:24pm PT
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Chief, you are a typical troll. Back to your hole!
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 11, 2014 - 02:44pm PT
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Mar 11, 2014 - 02:51pm PT
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OK, Chief....you win. See ya!
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barry ohm
Trad climber
escondido, ca
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Mar 11, 2014 - 02:57pm PT
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and the Internet needs Electricity, massive amounts of Electricity
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Mar 11, 2014 - 03:03pm PT
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and the Internet needs Electricity, massive amounts of Electricity
Thant's seriously funny since it posted by someone named ohm!
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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Mar 11, 2014 - 03:25pm PT
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This is what I love about ST! A thread is started about something, and quickly devolves into petty mudslinging! Rather than provide information and stimulate discussion about the topic, people find it more entertaining to be snarky toward one another.
Carry on boys.
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Mar 11, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
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At its March 18 meeting, the Board of Supervisors has the ability to approve the REGPA as is, approve an amended version or reject the plan altogether. The board may also ask for the plan to be amended and brought back for future approval.
http://www.inyoregister.com/node/5683
It would be great to see people show up at the meeting.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Mar 11, 2014 - 03:41pm PT
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Energy transmission, like water supplies, has a cost. Which is not to say that profit should be the main goal of a utility district.
But NutAgain is right...
"The problem with residential-based solar panels is that large companies have a harder time charging you for them in perpetuity."
So how do we subsidize the cost of solar power installations and maintenance without forcing people to put it on their roofs, and also paying for it themselves.
The Owens could probably handle some solar power installations, but at what point that tips over and becomes an eyesore rather than an inspiration to solar power, I don't know.
At the very least, it could power Mammoth, Bishop and Ridgecrest. Now the follow up question is where do you store all the battery farms for storing that solar energy at night? Battery Acid in my backyard?
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pa
climber
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Mar 11, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
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DWP owns most of the Owens Valley.
If this plan is approved, what's to stop them from doing more...all the way to Bishop?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mar 11, 2014 - 10:07pm PT
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Good to see ya out walking Urmas..rj
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Mar 11, 2014 - 10:17pm PT
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solar is knott as green as it is cracked up to be. they will come in and plow up a few thousand acres for 275 mw. a natural gas combined cycle plant would produce 1200 mw, take up 20 acres and be more efficient.
whatever.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Mar 11, 2014 - 10:25pm PT
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The Chief...Excellent point on DWP having the power to shut things down...On the flip side they've raped and ransacked the Owens Valley and continue trying to do so... Shutting out the public on DWP land wouldn't be in their best interest...My 2 cents...
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sDawg
climber
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Mar 11, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
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Chief is being unnecessarily generous in his assessment of your hypocrisy. LADWP doesn't just allow you access to the gorge through their land, and it's not just that they could shut down cragging there. They BUILT THE ROADS and thus created the crags. If there were no LADWP, there would be no cragging and few if any bolts in the ORG. Many of you would have never even been to the east side without LADWP.
Anyone who is unwilling to have a coal-fired power plant literally in their backyard, which is all of you, needs to stfu unless you're proposing a viable alternative that doesn't offend someone else as much as this one offends you. Personally, I think the east side is a great place for renewable installations. Rooftops and urban installations are an important piece, but the economics and the physics of the grid don't allow for them to be the only piece. Europe, in fact, is backing off from this approach after decades of feed-in tarriffs have not led to economies of learning great enough to make home-based installations economically viable.
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pa
climber
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Mar 11, 2014 - 10:42pm PT
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Chief,
I am well aware of the double edge sword that DWP is for those who live on the Eastside.
Personally, I really don't care if access to the Owens climbing areas is stopped. There are plenty of other ways I can get my jollies.
I do care, however, about the wildlife that will get axed, along with the migratory paths of birds, the defoliation of vast tracts of land (more dust yippie!!) and the unnecessary destruction of so much beauty.
Solar farms are obsolete. There are better ways.
And, by the way, I do have solar panels on my rooftop and they take care of all my energy needs and I love them.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Mar 11, 2014 - 11:08pm PT
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How about a solar awning over Vegas? They do t want you to be able to tell time if day there anyway. Might cut the ac bills, too!
Yeah, I dig the east side
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Mar 11, 2014 - 11:10pm PT
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Last Friday, California set a new record for solar power production: 3,926 megawatts, according to the state grid operator.
On Saturday, it did it again. The new record, 4,093 megawatts, is almost double that of peak production in June 2012. It accounted, at peak, for a full 18 percent of all electricity production in the state — enough to power 3 million homes.
Electricity was being produced by 78 percent of the state’s installed solar capacity Saturday, well above the 20 percent of nameplate electric capacity solar plants typically produce on an annual basis, according to the Electric Power Research Institute.
…California also has about 5,890 MW of wind generation, second only to Texas which has 11,213 MW in commercial operation.
California’s wind, solar and geothermal resources make up about 15,000 MW of the state’s generation mix. California’s wind production record stands at 4,302 MW, set June 23, 2013.
“This shows that California is making remarkable progress in not only getting new resources approved and connected to the grid, but making meaningful contributions in keeping the lights on as well,” Steve Berberich, president of the California Independent System Operator (ISO), said in a statement. ”The milestones illustrate that we are well into a new era when clean, renewable energy is shouldering its share of our electricity needs.”http://www.salon.com/2014/03/11/california_sets_and_then_breaks_a_new_solar_record/
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grover
climber
Northern Mexico
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Mar 12, 2014 - 12:37am PT
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Cover the aqua-ducts with panels.
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Mar 13, 2014 - 10:04am PT
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Hey Norton,
That is great news...
I still think there has got to be a better spot for a solar ranch than a beautiful wild and scenic area.
I don't know all of DWP's holdings but it seems something closer to L.A. would be better.
I like Andy's idea but not sure how it would all work for the utility company,
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Mar 13, 2014 - 11:12am PT
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Now the follow up question is where do you store all the battery farms for storing that solar energy at night? Battery Acid in my backyard?
This one is easy peasy! Don't store it chemically. Combine solar and hydro to make natural batteries!
Use the excess solar power to pump water uphill into man-made reservoirs during the day, and then let it flow downhill through turbines during the night. I think this happens on the western slope of the sierras around Courtwright/Edison/Florence or some of those.
Plus you create more recreational opportunities for anglers. In the Eastern Sierra, there are greater elevation differences in shorter distances, so it should be cheaper to build the facilities for transporting water up and down (but the pumping facility costs should be similar for a given altitude difference). The only thing we have to worry about is pesky riparian habitat. But if you divert a small portion of runoff to slowly create a high altitude reservoir, then recycle the water going back and forth between a high & low reservoir system, you only need to keep diverting enough water to counter the effects of ground seepage and evaporation. So in theory this can all happen in parallel to existing river valleys.
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Mar 14, 2014 - 11:28am PT
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There is a new solar ranch going in in Victorville.
Maybe is could just be expanded. That is a lot closer to L.A.!!!
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Mar 16, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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The meeting is on Tuesday in independence.
I will find out the time and post it tomorrow.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Mar 16, 2014 - 04:56pm PT
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So, Ron, is this where the missing mellow airliner came? Were they turned away like boat people? Reveal, tell all, dump the dirt...
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Jim Clipper
climber
from: forests to tree farms
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Mar 16, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
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You're always east of somewhere, with the magnetic pole all wonky. How is the people's living east of eden, it was once noted.
Manana
5am
10-12 ft
10ft 16sWNW (288°)
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karen roseme
Mountain climber
san diego
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Mar 17, 2014 - 11:00am PT
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BuddhaStalin
climber
Truckee, CA
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Mar 17, 2014 - 11:13am PT
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Proud. Pure comedy gold here. Keep it up, this is great!
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 27, 2014 - 06:26am PT
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The most pertinent post in this thread is...
That is why this is a moot point and a waste of time.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 27, 2014 - 07:59am PT
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http://billmoyers.com/2014/04/25/this-is-how-to-create-a-green-economy-that-works-for-all/
For most Americans, typically, making sure this month’s rent gets paid unfortunately ranks higher than stopping a future sea-level rise. So in his first term, President Obama framed his environmental messages around “green jobs,” with a focus on the economic benefits of “clean tech,” rather than the less politically popular imperative to curb dirty power industries or avert the impending ecological catastrophe
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Apr 27, 2014 - 09:13am PT
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Another issue the Chief keeps trying to make is about the terrible situation that happened to the Dann sisters. And then he wraps it into an argument of the horrendous environmental damage done by the gold mining permitted by the BLM. Both occurrences were deplorable to be sure.
But the questions I have to ask is who was President then, what party controlled congress at the time, and where was the WhiteWing militia when the Dann sisters needed an armed intervention?
The Federal agencies in charge of our public lands have always been in the business of selling off our national assets for a pittance to private for profit rape and run corporations in the extractive mineral fields. I didn't remember any WhiteWingers protesting against the Bush policies promoting these projects for their cronies benefit. Nor do I recall mobs of burly bearded gunmen showing up to protest the Dann sister situation. Hmmmmm.
So now we have a President who's administration actually believes science exists and that it is a good idea to move in a new direction regarding domestic energy production and independence. If the small patches of the total landmass that the BLM permits development on are now used for renewable energy production rather than strip mines I'm good with that and I think that it is a step in the right direction. But now the WhiteWingers come out in armed mobs to say evil Gubmint ovareach.
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KabalaArch
Trad climber
Starlite, California
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Apr 27, 2014 - 11:31am PT
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We added a 1kw array, and solar H/W, about 10 years ago. Started small, with a “solar clothes dryer.” Now it looks like half the homes here have pv.
This tech allows many to build off the Grid. One of the most interesting examples is a home I designed, embedded right in Mammoth. In addition to her 4kw array, she's not connected to the Water District's distribution system, opting for an on-site well instead.
Some years ago, LADWP floated the idea of a conservation easement overlay for the OV, and idea which sank due local distrust of their motives, rightly or otherwise.
Years before this, Nat Geographic featured the OV as “America's de facto National Park.” To many, local and visitor alike, it is. Point here is that this particular proposal is in everyone's back yard.
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