Mamunia

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Messages 1 - 48 of total 48 in this topic

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 24, 2014 - 01:21pm PT

Not the song by Wings, the desperate, super thin and sharp, two pitch route in Joshua Tree. Anyone have any info on this climb? I was working on it this weekend and what an incredible line. Not sure if it will go for me (or anyone) but will keep trying.

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Joshua Tree

Feb 24, 2014 - 01:51pm PT

I'd hit up M&M if you haven't already.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2014 - 04:40pm PT

The first pitch has a couple hard moves getting to the flake that felt around .12. The second pitch has a 8 foot very hard section on sharp friable sidepulls, just before it goes beyond vertical. Kind of terrifying on my mini-trax but a wild line. I'll be back on it in cooler temps with fresher tips.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2014 - 04:42pm PT

All the decent holds have chalk on so get on it.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2014 - 10:33pm PT

Someone must know something? There were plenty of thin masters back then who maybe gave it a try? I'd love to hear how easy only 13a is to the young guns. Honnold would solo it? Tommy would call it 14d.

Levy

Big Wall climber

So Cal

Feb 24, 2014 - 10:49pm PT

I did the 1st pitch with M & M & crew,back in '92 or so. Several of us led the 1st pitch which we were calling 5.12 b/c. There was a thin move stepping onto a razor edge around the 3rd bolt or so. The 2nd pitch seemed grainy & a bit loose so nobody put in much more than a cursory effort & we declared it jive.

At that time slabby climbing was going out of fashion, and we declared that Mamunia, was a synonym for "men with breasts". Man, we got a lot of laughter miles out of that one.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2014 - 11:37pm PT

Yea, hard there but I thought the moves around the last bolt were harder. The big flake there is pretty cool but the one on top of the last pitch is huge. Wild back in there.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.

Feb 24, 2014 - 11:46pm PT

yeah, the way it is now is not how it was originally done

i hear things, see?

be vewwy, vewwy careful sweet people

just sAyin

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 26, 2014 - 04:32pm PT

Anyone else besides Bill? I did talk to Rob M about it but he only talked about the first pitch. Who belayed Troy on the second pitch and why do people think it was not freed by him?

pelut espania

Big Wall climber

Espania

Feb 26, 2014 - 07:24pm PT

Who belayed Troy on the second pitch and why do people think it was not freed by him?

Mi Americano amigos! Mamunia es muy bueno en es fantástico even por the American dogs! Troy Mare es un hero en Espania and to say he no do pitch dos is classico Americano dog puto lengua by Americanos like Cozgrove and other old hombres who canot escalade the big cliffs. I do all pitches a vue and make downrate nunca as I am Pelut from Espania and not an American perro with the bolsa of mentiras and hate. Viva Espania!

Trad climber

JTree & Idyllwild

Feb 26, 2014 - 09:40pm PT

The first pitch (6 bolts)was done by Troy Mayr in 1988, originally rated by him at 5.12c/d and subsequently downrated by Coz and others to consensus 12b.

Pitch 2 (7 bolts) was done a year later, in 1989, and rated 5.13a/b, credited to Troy and Rob Mulligan, so Rob would be the one to ask about the details of that ascent. The second pitch was also given a separate name: "Illusions"

During the late 80's Rob had a solid track record of bouldering many V9/10 problems at Josh, and many 5.12/13 FAs, so he could certainly climb at this level.

With flakey slab climbs (although it's hard to characterize the second pitch as a "slab" since it's is vertical if not overhanging), over time, edges continually disintegrate under foot or get pulled off, so these types of climbs generally only get harder and harder over time as holds disappear....like the first pitch of Gunslinger on the North Astro Dome.

As far as I know, since 1988, the first pitch has been climbed infrequently, but the second pitch remains somewhat of a mystery.

Some years back the great Australian climbing photographer Simon Carter asked me about it, and subsequently took shots of his girlfriend Monique leading the second pitch, but I'm not sure if she redpointed it.

I haven't done the route, but always looked up there wondering about a third pitch to the top??

drewsky

climber

Seattle

Feb 26, 2014 - 11:22pm PT

I did the first pitch years ago. I remember it being thin and crumbly. I also recall the hardest part, by far, being a slabby friction/balance deal in the upper section of the climb, with a reach move. I claimed three bail 'biners, including one from the beginning of the second pitch. I didn't try the second pitch, though. What I remember best of all was rapping and pulling my rope into a patch of prickly pear. That made for some fun belaying later on.

Could it have been the second pitch that got a .13c rating originally? I didn't really look at it so can't speak to whether it seems climbable or not.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2014 - 10:52am PT

I would agree the crux of the first pitch is around the last bolt passing it and getting to the bottom of the massive flake. I thought is was rated 12a and felt it was harder than that but 12c would be correct. I did ask Mulligan about it and he said he only did the first pitch. He's in Europe now but I will ask him again when he returns. I do remember him being somewhat reticent about the whole thing. The second pitch is way harder than the first. Thanks Coz for the info.

Trad climber

JTree & Idyllwild

Feb 27, 2014 - 12:32pm PT

Hi Coz, I'll take your word for that...to be honest I don't remember exactly what Troy rated the first pitch (memory is a funny thing...it's been 26 years!) but the more I think about it, I do recall the downrating was a full grade, not just a letter grade, so you'd be correct.

...you got the second ascent, and the girl!

Rob Mulligan would be the one to ask about pitch 2. If he says he was never there...then it probably has never been done, since he was credited in Al Bartlett's guidebook with the FA of pitch 2 along with Troy.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2014 - 12:36pm PT

Rob definitely did not climb the second pitch.

ydpl8s

Trad climber

Santa Monica, California

Feb 27, 2014 - 12:46pm PT

Maybe Cesare Maestri did the 2nd pitch, french free of course. (I apologize if my humor offends)

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2014 - 04:01pm PT

If Troy rated the first pitch 13C, how did the second pitch get a 13a rating supposedly by Troy? I was back on it last Sunday. The second pitch is really hard but I think it will go.

RtM

climber

DHS

Mar 5, 2014 - 05:35pm PT

Mamunia

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2014 - 08:35pm PT

Cool shot Robert. I am on pretty good holds and just finishing the overhanging part to the second pitch. You can see the two flakes pretty clearly. The first pitch ends at the top of the first one. The one above the anchor on the second pitch is completely detached and hanging out from the wall. No idea how it is staying there but rapping in over it is really terrifying.

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Lassitude 33

Mar 5, 2014 - 08:44pm PT

I don't believe the first pitch was originally 5.13c, but 5.12c. The second pitch has always been rated harder. As for the other gratuitous comments, I don't give them much credence.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2014 - 08:46pm PT

Hey skeetch, read the whole story before commenting dude.

Trad climber

JTree & Idyllwild

Mar 5, 2014 - 11:14pm PT

I'll put in a good word for Troy here. Whatever happened with the 2nd pitch, Troy saw a good line and the route is the result of his vision. Funny that it took over 2 decades for someone else to take a serious look at it.

Troy cut his teeth on the slabs of Suicide Rock in the mid 80's. Charles Cole had taken him under his wing, and some of Troy's first leads were first ascents of hard and scary slab climbs (11+/12), drilling from stances on the lead.

Charles and Troy were testing out various concoctions of 5.10 rubber, and they put up numerous slab testpieces that have been rarley repeated- hard, thin and scary.

In the 90's I focussed on putting up new routes on Tahquitz, and Troy moved on to the newly discovered Williamson Rock, where he was a key player in its development, and he became a talented sport climber.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 5, 2014 - 11:26pm PT

I know Troy and most of the others around then cut their teeth on classic trad. I'm just trying to get/confirm the history of a really classic beautiful route.

RyanD

climber

Squamish

Mar 6, 2014 - 12:00am PT

Thanks for the pic.

Looks like a cool climb. Digging the esoterica involved in the history here too,

Good luck on clipping the chains johannsolo.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

extraordinaire

Mar 6, 2014 - 02:23am PT

I know Troy and most of the others around then cut their teeth on classic trad. I'm just trying to get/confirm the history of ...

Terse response to a very reasonable, and informative post by BG.
You seem like kind of an as#@&%e.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 04:03am PT

And you are one Bitch!

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Mar 6, 2014 - 04:21am PT

hey there say, all... i am not a climber, but i really appreciate reading all these shares about routes, things remember, things being learned and shared...

glad to be at the taco and share in all this...
just 'eaves dropping' here, tonight...

usually just read these kind, and don't post, since i don't know 'these things' ...
but i really enjoy them... :)

drljefe

climber

El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson

Mar 6, 2014 - 09:43am PT

Kind of a weird contentious vibe to this thread...
Best of luck on the route John, I commend you for going after these old hard slab routes.
I've always been intrigued by this one- the hardest on the Astrodomes, and the photo of Mari Gingery on it in my old guide(with Troy on the cover). In that guide the first pitch is listed as 12c, the second 13a.
Send it!

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 10:47am PT

And yes, I am an A$$hole.

Tan Slacks

climber

Joshua Tree

Mar 6, 2014 - 11:00am PT

Warning! Thread drift!

Bob said ...

"...you got the second ascent, and the girl!"

My memory is also pretty weak (really weak) but can anyone confirm? ... I have this fuzzy memory about being at a wedding near Turtle rock, Karen Tracy playing the harp and a reception somewhere at a Josh house. Is this some sort of weird dream or did it happen? I'm serious.

Coz, BG, ?

PS, I do remember the down rating of Mamounia and Troy seemed very cool about it when I heard him talking to others in Idyllwild.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Mar 6, 2014 - 11:22am PT

Cool stuff. I think it's funny how to get good info on a lot of routes you have to hang out at the saloon or wait in the parking lot of Nomad for Todd to walk by. So many hard routes in the park that rarely get done, it's cool to hear the FA stories. Got a chance last week to camp next to J.P. Oullet and tell him stories about the bad ass routes nearby and how they were put up and the ethic of JT. He really dug it and he's one of the most talented guys out there today.

Someday when I'm big and strong...

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Lassitude 33

Mar 6, 2014 - 12:54pm PT

Hey skeetch, read the whole story before commenting dude.

If you mean the prior posts (which is hardly the "whole story"), yea I read them. Some are informative, some just the same old trash talk.

If you mean having been around and actually knowing something, well I suppose that the answer to that is an affirmative too.

Cool that you are trying to repeat the route, but the apparent "ready, shoot, aim" of some of your posts is pretty amusing.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2014 - 01:16pm PT

Then please add any information you have (which you are alluding to), which is all I am asking. This site seems to bring out the best in people. (jk)

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Lassitude 33

Mar 6, 2014 - 03:15pm PT

Scott, I'm not accusing you (or anyone) of lying... don't see where I've said anything like that.

I do know that many a FA has ended up being down-rated later (though it seems that doesn't usually apply to your hard routes -- which if anything seem to get bumped up when eventually repeated), but it is not an unusual occurrence. This seems especially true with hard routes put up in the 80s -- when the number of 5.12s and 5.13s were still pretty limited and the number of people climbing at that level were even smaller.

So, if the first pitch was first called 5.13 by Troy, and upon a repeat down-rated, it doesn't necessarily mean that the obviously harder second pitch wasn't climbed free. Troy is a naturally gifted athlete and very good person, who established dozens of very hard routes (at least hard to me). As such, if he claims to have climbed it, I'll accept that at face value.

Rick A

climber

Boulder, Colorado

Mar 6, 2014 - 04:26pm PT

John,
Regardless of whether it is a first or second ascent of the second pitch, it seems like a fine project and an excellent accomplishment once you get it.
Thanks for a climbing thread and prompting the back stories of the route.
Rick

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Lassitude 33

Mar 6, 2014 - 07:06pm PT

I won't say much further due to my apparent "false" voice. Is that like a falsetto?

And, perhaps more pertinently -- and without burdening this thread with more ad hominen -- no one seems to have been there (witnessed) when the FA went down. And that includes me.

So, carry on -- and as Rick mentions, lets hear a report when it is repeated.

kev

climber

A pile of dirt.

Mar 6, 2014 - 07:17pm PT

Stop spraying and go climb P2 monkeys!

Trad climber

JTree & Idyllwild

Mar 6, 2014 - 09:15pm PT

Here's some more esoterica to give you a sense of the zeitgeist when Mamunia was first climbed (1988).

This was my Basecamp write-up for Climbing Magazine, June 1988. Scott Franklin is on the cover climbing Smith Rock's Scarface (14b) in pink tights. There's a nice photo of Coz on Sun Bowl (13a/b) and a very brief mention of Mamunia.

CALIFORNIA

JOSHUA TREE

First-ascent fever borders on epidemic

During the 1987/88 season, activists put up an unprecedented number of new routes, and firmly established 5.13. John Bachar commented, "More bolts were put in this season than in the last five."

Both Joshua Tree's vastness and power drills were responsible for the route explosion, allowing certain motivated climbers to fire in ten or more new routes in a day. Many of the new climbs sport 3/8" bolts, a welcome change from the manky 1/4" spinners of the past. In keeping with local tradition, all new routes were done from the ground up, although hangdogging insidiously slipped into vogue, with new 5.13's usually requiring many days and many hangs.

On one route, Charles Cole and Troy Mayr added a new twist to the ground-up game, preplacing the drill on a toprope and lowering it to the leader when he arrived at a drilling stance. Despite chopping threats, their now-popular route, Cactus Flower (5.11b), still stands.

Kurt Smith got the season rolling by leading a couple of former topropes:
Bikini Whale (5.12b) (now with 3 bolts) and Chicks For Free (5.12b/c). Smith's finest creations were Duncecap (5.13b), a steep edging climb on Cap Rock, and Hold Your Fire (5.13a), requiring a very awkward mantle over a bulge.

Ron Kauk made a brief visit, guiding rock star David Lee Roth who cruised the Monument in a sleek, black, Mercedes 450SL with a huge skull and crossbones embossed on the hood. Kauk made the second ascent of Hold Your Fire in an impressive one-day effort, confirming the 5.13 rating. He then succceeded on the often-tried toprope, Brown Out, rating it 5.12d.

During his inspired stay, Scott Cosgrove established two steep leads on the Baby Apes Wall: Apartheid (5.12c) and Buffalo Soldier (5.12d). He also bagged a couple of even more difficult routes, Sun Bowl (5.13a/b) and Father Figure (5.13a), both desperate, bolt-protected, overhanging faces.

After multi-day efforts, Tom Herbert led Money For Nothing (5.12b/c), a former toprope first climbed by Cosgrove. And true to his trademark, Dick Cilley toproped Persian Room (5.13a), an interesting, overhanging flake to groove to pockets on the Blob.

Randy Leavitt ferreted out some classic testpieces in the Wonderland of Rocks. Slaves of Fashion (5.12c) is an overhanging thin crack on Punk Rock, and Existential Decay (5.12d) is an overhanging, stemming corner to the right of Nihilistic Pillar.

In the Homestead area (due south of The Fortress), he found two more very difficult corners. The Thrill of Deesire (5.12c) offers a wild lead and requires stemming, laybacking, and arete moves. Leavitt broke the 5.13 barrier with Dihedralman (5.13b), a radically overhung corner, capped by a roof, followed by an exciting face above. He also climbed several classic 5.10's here. And for the offwidth connoisseur, Leavittation (5.12a) near the Willow Hole parking area, climbs a 15-foot roof via hand/fist stacks and knee locks.

Also in the Wonderland of Rocks, the energetic Troy Mayr added a difficult line to the forbidding main wall of South Astro Dome. Mamunia (5.12b) follows a vertical, orange streak to the right of Strike It Rich.

Jumping on the bolting bandwagon, the ever-present Mike Paul added Glory Road (5.12a), to the left of Course and Buggy, and cracked the baffling Riddler (5.12a) on Echo Rock.

Johnny Woodward, as usual, put up some bold leads. Quickstone (5.12b) is a face left of 29 Palms, and Every Which Way but Up (5.12b) is a pumping dike traverse at Split Rocks. Woodward also top roped the north face of Headstone Rock (5.12b), then threw himself into the hotbed of ethics by chopping the ancient beginner's bolt ladder, a move which disgruntled many locals.

Mike Lechlinski led the Bosch contingent, seeking the precious overhanging desert patina, then producing some of the season's best classics. Elephant Walk (5.11 +) is the stunning arete left of Equinox, and Bombs Over Libya (5.12), originally toproped by Tom Gilje, is a superb face on the Punk Rock block.

After Joshua Tree's busiest season ever, Randy Vogel's upcoming guidebook supplement will be welcomed by honemasters and weekenders alike. It's due out this fall.

kev

climber

A pile of dirt.

Mar 6, 2014 - 09:22pm PT

I was just pointing out the reason I remember the event so well. I ended up in a four year relationship with his Girl.

How do you say booty!

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Mar 6, 2014 - 10:09pm PT

Kurt Smith got the season rolling by leading a couple of former topropes:
Bikini Whale (5.12b) (now with 3 bolts) and Chicks For Free (5.12b/c). Smith's finest creations were Dunceecap (5.13b), a steep edging climb on Cap Rock, and Hold Your Fire (5.13a), requiring a very awkward mantle over a bulge.

Nice year for KS! Great video of Lindner doing the first repeat (!!) of Dunce Cap here:

[Click to View YouTube Video]

cultureshock

Trad climber

Mountain View

Mar 7, 2014 - 10:29am PT

Rad!

How about some thread drift!

Ive never heard of Slaves of Fashion (5.12c), Existential Decay (5.12d) or The Thrill of Desire (5.12c)

Existential Decay is the slash in the center

I'm more into cracks and these sound interesting. Any thoughts on these routes?

Randy Leavitt on FA of The Thrill of Desire (5.12c), Joshua Tree NP. Photo by Brian Bailey.

I've been on 29 Palms, Acid Crack and Equinox which could be used for comparison.

Luke

bob

climber

Mar 7, 2014 - 10:52am PT

The Thrill of Desire is such a radical route. I love corners and I love aretes. Not that its an arete climb, but you do have to slap a bit up higher if I recall correctly. Its a sweet lead with desperate movement. One gets above gear too up high. Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Luke, I thought the initial stemming on Thrill of Desire was very much like the initial stemming on Gates of Delirium. Crazy at first (or not) ,but comes together quickly.

That area where Thrill of Desire is located is so special. Lots to do out there in the easy to hard range.

Lots to do out there even if one just finds a rock and sits on it gazing over the incredible place they have found themselves in. So cool

Bob J.

fluffy

Trad climber

Colorado

Mar 7, 2014 - 12:30pm PT

F*#kin rock climbers and their shitty attitudes and egos. Spray spray spray and stroke and slag. Who f*#kin cares?

Except you Bob you have it figured out...

Woodward was the one who chopped the bolt ladder? WTF man weird thing to do.

Johannsolo

climber

Soul Cal

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2014 - 01:30pm PT

Although I am not a "professional" climber, it has meant so much and given me so much the last 22 years. It has also cost me just about every relationship since then. If I could go back, I would not change a thing. Thank you to everyone who has posted historical and/or relevant climbing information.