Why are Liberals wrong about everything?

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Messages 1 - 127 of total 127 in this topic
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 23, 2014 - 12:49pm PT
How to piss off a Liberal:
1. Get a job
2. Refuse handouts
3. Buy a gun
4. Start a business
5. Value human life
6. THINK

this will disappear quickly.......
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 23, 2014 - 12:50pm PT
Lubbock

isn't that where Buddy Holly was from?

oops, is this another new political thread?
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
Yea and it was the only thing that ever happened here too we all visit the memorial once a week to remember why Lubbock exists. Ha I actually had forgotten about that until you mentioned it

I get such a warm fuzzy feeling anytime Locker responds to anything I say I'm so star struck right now
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
Bring them old balls down to the great state of Texas and might just do it. I meant that respectively btw
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:07pm PT
Well at least he's being respective
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 01:14pm PT
How did you get my picture ^^^^
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:15pm PT
Damn it Cragman. we are too wrong about everything.

I will say this though… that Lubbockclimber is a great climber and a heck of a guy.
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
It's ok it's all in good fun I knew I would get flamed hard core I'll just go hug my guns
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
I will stand behind what I said. You are a great climber and I am a liberal who is always wrong. heh heh..
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
Do we know each other John M.?
Surely your not referring to me when you say "great climber".
And hey republicans are idiots too I'm not sure what you would really call me republican, liberal, hippie dippie idiot. Idk I love my guns but all for legalizing weed, hate universal healthcare, love drug tests for welfare, hate George Bush, love Colorado and Cali, hate most republican candidates. I'm f*#kking crazy I guess!
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:31pm PT
locker buys his underwear from Victoria's secret
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
I was just joking with you Lubbockclimber. trying to make a play off of your original statement. But Locker really does buy his underwear from Victoria's secret.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
I'm not sure what you would really call me republican, liberal, hippie dippie idiot. Idk I love my guns but all for legalizing weed, hate universal healthcare, love drug tests for welfare, hate George Bush, love Colorado and Cali, hate most republican candidate

you are the perfect independent American, member of no political party

congratulations Lubbock
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
Cool cool I was just wondering if had happen to run into somebody I know on the the giant ocean that is the internet
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:42pm PT
no problem locker. Don't' be so touchy.



and I mean it. stop touching me.. haha
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 01:45pm PT
Can we stop talking about Locker's underwear
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Feb 23, 2014 - 04:48pm PT

We don't have to sympathize with lubbock anymore. . .
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 23, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
Hi Fatty!

can't stay away can ya?

what do you figure, maybe five more posts until deactivation again?

pity
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 08:02pm PT
What ya mean stevew
Gilroy

Social climber
Bolderado
Feb 23, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
It's flatter 'n Kansas, you're a climber yet you still moved there.

'Scuse me, Steve. I'm just jumping in here...

Love the music scene in Lubbock. It has produced some giants in the industry. Besides Buddy Holly, there's a statue of Waylon down there too as you take the state highway through town (on your way to Colorado or New Mexico) to get to real climbing...
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 08:30pm PT
Bump
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 08:45pm PT
Fatty -

see if your will can keep you from getting banned every 10 posts

it may be time for some self examination


or not
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 23, 2014 - 08:45pm PT
Locker, yer trip present should arrive soon.

Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
I agree.

See you next time
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 08:51pm PT
If I'm wrong about everything, then that would make me an expert on being wrong. If I am an expert, then that would make me right on being wrong at least some of the time. If I am right on at least something, then the first thing can't be true.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 08:56pm PT
this sentence is false
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:06pm PT

Asking for sympathy is one thing, but then jumping into a politard
BS thread is pretty f'n crass.

dig a hole
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 09:18pm PT
Hey f*#kk you Steve
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:24pm PT
come on Steve. Everyone has a weird day once in awhile. I thought the thread was meant as a joke. Maybe not, but still.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:25pm PT
there's only 1 k in f*#k fellas
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:27pm PT
yea.. but two ##
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:29pm PT
Just keeping it grammatically correct.


Besides: he started the politard thread first so F#$kk you Steve!
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2014 - 09:29pm PT
God damn of course it's a f*#king joke
John M

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
then ease up Lubbockclimber. Maybe Steve is just having a bad day. You know about those don't you..
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:31pm PT
You stay out of this OP!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Feb 23, 2014 - 09:39pm PT
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Feb 24, 2014 - 09:19am PT


You know, without liberals, you'd be working 80 to 90 hours a week for
a pittance. Your benefits would be non-existent. You'd be able to buy
overpriced food and other necessities from the company store.
There wouldn't be any organizations like the FDA to monitor and ensure
your drugs and food were safe, or other ones to ensure the motor vehicle you drive was safe, roads and buildings were constructed safely.

Yup, just like Mitt, you don't owe anybody anything, you've done everything by yourself.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 24, 2014 - 11:04am PT
It will be Christie tor the win.

always impressed by the resiliancy of stupidity,
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Feb 24, 2014 - 11:13am PT
Steve nailed it...add clean air, clean water, civil rights, gay rights and so on to the list. Republicans, always on the wrong side of modern history.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 24, 2014 - 12:01pm PT
I'm a proud liberal.

A gun-owning, hunting, fishing, served in the military, worked for the military, employed, started working at 15, tax paying, never received public benefits, paid my own way, proud liberal.

I support EQUAL rights, not codified discrimination against gays, women, people of color or any other group. I support separation of church and state and intelligent gun controls like background checks, waiting periods, and mag capacity limits. I don't believe "corporations are people, my friends".

I believe there is, and will always be, a need for welfare and public assistance. I believe there will always be a group of lazy ass people leeching off the public...half desperately poor living in ghettos, the other half plutocrats living in mansions and buying our tax policy via lobbyists and politicians. I believe I'd rather pay taxes to keep the poor 1% in food and housing, than pay a lot more to keep them in prison once they steal and rob to get food or basic needs.

I believe substance abuse and addiction is a public health issue, not a criminal one and that prohibition enables black market gangsters. I believe that most, but not everything benefits from capitalism...there is no f*#king innovation in constructing actuarial tables, and thus a public option for health insurance should the minimum, though single payer would be better.

I believe Jamie Dimon, Hank Paulson, Lloyd Blanfein and their ilk should swing from the gallows or face the guillotine. I believe the cowards George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and Bill Kristol should be next after the bankers...except their arms and legs should go in the guillotine instead of their heads, so they can see what it's like for all the young soldiers permanently maimed in service of their vanity war, after those chickshit as#@&%es avoided service or straight up deserted when they had the chance to fight themselves.

I believe no child should go hungry in this country, regardless of how useless their parents might be. I believe 99% of people want to work, and that Mitt Romney's boys and Paris Hilton can lower thenmselves to drive a Porshe instead of a Bentley when their inheritance is taxed. I believe abortion is between a woman, her doctor, and her own beliefs or conscience, not some outsider and their imaginary sky-man. I believe freely available birth control is the best way to reduce abortions. I believe any theocrat whining about abortion should show me how many kids he's adopted or STFU.

I believe the modern GOP is controlled by their looniest fringe..the Plutocrats, Theorcrats, and BatshitoCrat xenophobes, in a way the left has not been in my lifetime. So yes, I am a proud liberal. Who has been right a hell of a lot more than I've been wrong.

The Tea-oh-P can go f*#k itself.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
drum circle full of liberals dropping acid again

John M

climber
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:04pm PT
great post elcap..

you too steve. Sorry if I jumped to conclusions.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:08pm PT
ok, so let us now hear from some forum conservatives what they "oppose" in ElCap's post

must be lots of it...

ready, set, go!

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:12pm PT
liberals are taking away the public lands
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:13pm PT
+1000 for ElCap! Great Post! It should be reposted frequently as a rebuttal to the right-wing rants.

Cheers!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:18pm PT
liberals are taking away the public lands

really? prove your belief by presenting the differing legislations championed by, voted on,
and signed into law by both Democratic and Republican administrations that "take away public lands"

should not take too long for you as you have already examined the data prior to conclusion
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:19pm PT
That is so spot on, EC. I'm going to share it, if you don't mind (if you prefer otherwise, I won't, though).
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
ECIYA, I wish I could shake your hand for so well and eloquently stating a clearer perspective of what so many of US agree about.


Now for the irrational, mouth breathing, science denying, knuckle dragging, corporate shills of the neoconservative, born again, tea bagging whitewing I give you this motivational meme as encouragement to keep trying desperately to hide from the truth.
You can do it.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:20pm PT
hurry.... Norton has fallen and can't get up!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 24, 2014 - 02:21pm PT
I cant SIDE with either

really Ron, can't side with either"?

ElCap has presented what "liberals" want and believe to be true

I find it hard to believe that you personally would disagree with ElCap's above post

but I guess you do as you cannot make up your mind

so, can I invite you to at least tell us all the parts you don't agree with in his post?

why aren't you a liberal also, Ron?

I am, and damn proud of the principles I believe in
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Feb 24, 2014 - 05:29pm PT
Great post Elcap!

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 24, 2014 - 06:02pm PT
Pyro posts a picture of a guy on the ground and then says that I have fallen?

that all you got, Pyro?

guess so, because when challenged to back up your public lands statement you could not do it, so instead, like a third grader, your come back reply is to post an irrelevant picture

weak, gee can I assume you voted for Caribou Barbie to be one heartbeat away from being Commander in Chief of the US Armed Forces? yeah, I would put money on that
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Feb 24, 2014 - 07:19pm PT

Thanks, Elcap. . . for more eloquently putting what I tried to say.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 24, 2014 - 09:17pm PT
ok, so let us now hear from some forum conservatives what they "oppose" in ElCap's post

must be lots of it...

ready, set, go!

I hate to be picky, but El Cap's post purports to state what he believes. Such a post can be incorrect only if it misstates what he believes, even if the stated beliefs have no basis in fact. Although I haven't met El Cap personally, I have gleaned enough from his posts to have great confidence that what he says he believes, he believes. I therefore see no reason to "oppose" it.

I also have enough respect for his intellect to consider what he says. His are posts I always read, even if I disagree with many of his conclusions, and his trip reports are some of the best on ST.

If I thought it would serve a purpose, I would set forth my own beliefs, but anyone who cares has already read enough to know them. I just want to thank El Cap for setting forth his views in a way that is respectful, articulate and worthy of consideration, even by those of us who disagree.

John
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 24, 2014 - 09:21pm PT
hey take it easy everything will be Okay del norton.

I've not done any research but have a wild guess that some liberal might have closed one of my favorite hangouts.

http://alliedclimbers.org/access-issues/action-alerts/103-action-alert-williamson

maybe you can guide me norton.
bigbird

climber
WA
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:15pm PT
Why are we even having this conversation on a climbing forum?

In any case the culture wars are largely over. Even Mitt Romney's former campaign advisor in Iowa admitted....

“Younger people want to move past the old arguments on the culture wars. Frankly, the culture wars are over and Republicans largely lost.”






Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:30pm PT
I've not done any research but have a wild guess that some liberal might have closed one of my favorite hangouts.

hey, its ok pyro...I understand

I just tend to take people seriously when they make definitive statements that are not true
,,in the present age of the internet when it takes only a few minutes to get the facts right
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 24, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
If I thought it would serve a purpose, I would set forth my own beliefs, but anyone who cares has already read enough to know them.

yes JohnE, we know you consider yourself a conservative and voted for McCain and Romney

but my invitation was to ask forum conservatives, like you, to look carefully at ElCap's statement of what being a "liberal" means to him, and then state exactly what parts of it you oppose, because you know, opposing them liberals is largely what voting Repub is about

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 24, 2014 - 11:07pm PT
fatty be gone
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:28am PT
"...setting forth his views in a way that is respectful, articulate and worthy of consideration, even by those of us who disagree."

Well no wonder we haven't heard any of the usual Repub-droids rebut ECIYA's fine position statement. That's just not possible!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:41am PT
I'm a proud liberal.

A gun-owning, hunting, fishing, served in the military, worked for the military, employed, started working at 15, tax paying, never received public benefits, paid my own way, proud liberal.

I support EQUAL rights, not codified discrimination against gays, women, people of color or any other group. I support separation of church and state and intelligent gun controls like background checks, waiting periods, and mag capacity limits. I don't believe "corporations are people, my friends".

I believe there is, and will always be, a need for welfare and public assistance. I believe there will always be a group of lazy ass people leeching off the public...half desperately poor living in ghettos, the other half plutocrats living in mansions and buying our tax policy via lobbyists and politicians. I believe I'd rather pay taxes to keep the poor 1% in food and housing, than pay a lot more to keep them in prison once they steal and rob to get food or basic needs.

I believe substance abuse and addiction is a public health issue, not a criminal one and that prohibition enables black market gangsters. I believe that most, but not everything benefits from capitalism...there is no f*#king innovation in constructing actuarial tables, and thus a public option for health insurance should the minimum, though single payer would be better.

I believe Jamie Dimon, Hank Paulson, Lloyd Blanfein and their ilk should swing from the gallows or face the guillotine. I believe the cowards George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and Bill Kristol should be next after the bankers...except their arms and legs should go in the guillotine instead of their heads, so they can see what it's like for all the young soldiers permanently maimed in service of their vanity war, after those chickshit as#@&%es avoided service or straight up deserted when they had the chance to fight themselves.

I believe no child should go hungry in this country, regardless of how useless their parents might be. I believe 99% of people want to work, and that Mitt Romney's boys and Paris Hilton can lower thenmselves to drive a Porshe instead of a Bentley when their inheritance is taxed. I believe abortion is between a woman, her doctor, and her own beliefs or conscience, not some outsider and their imaginary sky-man. I believe freely available birth control is the best way to reduce abortions. I believe any theocrat whining about abortion should show me how many kids he's adopted or STFU.

I believe the modern GOP is controlled by their looniest fringe..the Plutocrats, Theorcrats, and BatshitoCrat xenophobes, in a way the left has not been in my lifetime. So yes, I am a proud liberal. Who has been right a hell of a lot more than I've been wrong.

The Tea-oh-P can go f*#k itself.


You may be a proud liberal, but after that rant you may just be a hyporcrite or a liar. I'll delineate why shortly. Really, hanging the GOP? And you've been right about what, more than you've been wrong?

Do you really think you can just say sh#t, like Obama, and people are supposed to buy it?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:57am PT
I'm a proud liberal.

A gun-owning, hunting, fishing, served in the military, worked for the military, employed, started working at 15, tax paying, never received public benefits, paid my own way, proud liberal.

Cool, do you want a merit-badge for that? We all did that, but I never served in the mil, so you got me there!

I support EQUAL rights, not codified discrimination against gays, women, people of color or any other group. I support separation of church and state and intelligent gun controls like background checks, waiting periods, and mag capacity limits. I don't believe "corporations are people, my friends".

Do you support the rights of "people of color" to be canned when they under-perform? How about women? Can religious people deny the right of taxed service to people they disagree with on a religious basis? Does that include Muslims?

I believe there is, and will always be, a need for welfare and public assistance. I believe there will always be a group of lazy ass people leeching off the public...half desperately poor living in ghettos, the other half plutocrats living in mansions and buying our tax policy via lobbyists and politicians. I believe I'd rather pay taxes to keep the poor 1% in food and housing, than pay a lot more to keep them in prison once they steal and rob to get food or basic needs.

Make up your mind! Quit trying to mince words and have it both ways.

I believe substance abuse and addiction is a public health issue, not a criminal one and that prohibition enables black market gangsters. I believe that most, but not everything benefits from capitalism...there is no f*#king innovation in constructing actuarial tables, and thus a public option for health insurance should the minimum, though single payer would be better.

Single-payer bullshit again? Do you really think that is effective? There are better ways to reform the system that have already been proposed, and shot down by intolerant Dems.

I believe Jamie Dimon, Hank Paulson, Lloyd Blanfein and their ilk should swing from the gallows or face the guillotine. I believe the cowards George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and Bill Kristol should be next after the bankers...except their arms and legs should go in the guillotine instead of their heads, so they can see what it's like for all the young soldiers permanently maimed in service of their vanity war, after those chickshit as#@&%es avoided service or straight up deserted when they had the chance to fight themselves.

Boy, that's nice. Did Obummer ever serve? Biden? So let's kill the Repubs.

I believe no child should go hungry in this country, regardless of how useless their parents might be. I believe 99% of people want to work, and that Mitt Romney's boys and Paris Hilton can lower thenmselves to drive a Porshe instead of a Bentley when their inheritance is taxed. I believe abortion is between a woman, her doctor, and her own beliefs or conscience, not some outsider and their imaginary sky-man. I believe freely available birth control is the best way to reduce abortions. I believe any theocrat whining about abortion should show me how many kids he's adopted or STFU.

You should do some research into how many conservatives adopted or have foregone abortions before you spout that kind of bullsh#t.

I believe the modern GOP is controlled by their looniest fringe..the Plutocrats, Theorcrats, and BatshitoCrat xenophobes, in a way the left has not been in my lifetime. So yes, I am a proud liberal. Who has been right a hell of a lot more than I've been wrong.

The Tea-oh-P can go f*#k itself.


Do you support lower taxes and a smaller gov't?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 25, 2014 - 02:34am PT
"Did Obummer ever serve? Biden? "

Maybe not, but they haven't been the architects of a war that cost thousands & thousands of lives, and uncountable changed lives, either. Do you really think that's a direct comparison?

Nice try, blue...but your 'rebuttal' is weak sauce.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:04am PT
Apogee, tell that to the widows of Benghazi. And this is the same crew that advocates a 'Resposibility 2 Protect' doctrine, ever hear of them?

Arab Spring?

Samantha Power, Susan Rice and the other acolytes think they know best. They don't fire weapons, they just destabilize sovereign gov'ts for their globalist agendas.

Who's worse, the Bush's or them?

Oh, and I wrote this piece up on Saturday;

http://patdollard.com/2014/02/what-have-we-sown/
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:06am PT
Who's worse, the Bush's or them?

the Bush's.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:14am PT
It was a largely rhetorical question, Wade...with the answer to that question would demand some reasoning and justification, not just simply picking a side.

But whatever, you're entitled to yer thoughts....
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:16am PT
It was a largely rhetorical answer. those are my thoughts. Hope you're well. cheers Blue.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:19am PT
I an well, Wade, rock on!!!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 25, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
The problem with asking a (supposedly) rhetorical question is that someone just might answer it.

If you accept the FauxNews RepugDroid view that Benghazi was a total f*#k-up on the part of the Obama Administration, a poorly managed incident that resulted in the deaths of a few people has no comparison with a war that was started under false pretenses and resulted in the loss of thousands of lives and mass destruction of an entire country.

You guys gotta be pretty feckin' desperate if that's the only comparison you can find.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 25, 2014 - 01:46pm PT
School That Threw Away Kids’ Lunches Now Spending $50k On Public Relations Help
Jameson February 24, 2014 Class Warfare Exists

http://iacknowledge.net/school-that-threw-away-kids-lunches-now-spending-50k-on-public-relations-help/

When a Salt Lake City elementary school noticed that a few dozen of its students had past due lunch bills, school officials immediately took action: they marched into the cafeteria, seized the food the kids were eating, and dumped it in the trash. The fallout was immediate and unrelenting. Parents protested, the rest of the world shook their heads in disbelief, and no less than two state senators visited the small school to question the judgment of the people in charge.

“It was pretty traumatic and humiliating,” mother Erica Lukes told the Tribune. Her daughter, 11, was among the kids whose lunches were taken away. “These are young children that shouldn’t be punished or humiliated for something the parents obviously need to clear up.” [source]

The school initially defended its actions by saying that the lunches were thrown away because of rules regarding not serving food twice. They seemed to not think about whether or not the lunches should have been seized in the first place. The outrage stemmed not from the fact that the food was dumped in the trash, but that the school had decided to quite literally take the food out of the mouths of their students to make a point to the parents.

But maybe the school felt that saving the money on school lunches was so important, it was worth it at all cost. That scenario seems hard to sell now that the same school is spending fifty thousand dollars on public relations consultations to help repair their damaged image. That’s enough money to buy 20,000 school lunches for the kids.

So what does spending $50,000 on public relations get you?

The most important lesson is that you shouldn’t take children’s food away, humiliate them in front of their classmates, and toss the uneaten food in the trash. Things that might have been obvious even without the outside help.



According to NPR’s Howard Berkes:

“Under Secretary of Agriculture Kevin Concannon says in a letter to state school chiefs that schoolchildren should not be subjected to undue embarrassment and stigma when they have outstanding balances in their school lunch accounts.

“That’s a response to the incident in Salt Lake City last month when school lunches were taken from children and tossed in the trash due to unpaid bills. Parents at the school complained they weren’t adequately notified.

“Concannon urged school districts to adopt clear procedures for payment and notification of overdue balances.

There is another lesson to be learned here: next time you plan on trying to save a few hundred dollars, make sure what you plan to do won’t end up costing you $50,000 in bad publicity.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
I'm a proud conservative. I own no firearms, off-road vehicles, or trust fund. I am a son of an immigrant, a tax-paying-without-grumbling, full-benefits-to-employees-paying, hardworking, paid for myself and others proud conservative.

I am a conservative because I have spent much of my life fighting people who think they know more than I, telling me what they think I should do. I think that people in general, and some liberals in particular, think they are smarter than they really are and, for that reason, want to impose their preferences and values on everyone else because they view the preferences and views of others as inferior.

I support EQUAL rights, not codified discrimination against or in favor of gays, women, people of color or any other group, including but not limited to white males, Christians, Muslims and people with whom I disagree.

I support the Constitution as the document defining and limiting our government. If we disagree with its provisions, we need to amend those provisions. I believe that acting in contravention of the Constitution constitutes not only illegal activity, but the most grave threat to the very fabric of our coexistence as a society.

To mention a few specifics, I support the First Amendment's:

 Guaranty both of the disestablishment, and of the free exercise of, religion;

 Prohibition against infringement of freedom of speech, regardless of the popularity or identity of the speaker or speakers, or their designation as individuals or groups of individuals or associations, partnerships, corporations, LLP's, LLC's or any other shorthand;

 Guaranty of freedom of the press, regardless of the method of dissemination or organization doing the dissemination. The New York Times Corporation has as much right to its press freedom as I do, even though it is a corporation.

For that reason, I believe those saying "corporations are not people" are really simply trying to restrict the expression of those with whom they disagree. For shame!

I support the Second Amendment's reservation to the people, meaning to individuals, of the right to bear arms. If this guaranty applies only to state governments, the guaranty is meaningless. This does not prohibit intelligent regulation respectful of the overall right to bear arms, such as background checks. It does, however, mean that we must resolve doubts about the reasonableness of regulation in favor of freedom.

I believe that capitalism has been the engine promoting the greatest prosperity ever seen in the world, because it is based on voluntary, mutually-beneficial exchange, but capitalism requires government action, including regulation of economic activity. This has some specific implications:

I believe there is, and will always be, a need for welfare and public assistance, and that government must meet most of that need, because otherwise people who can and should help can shirk their duty to do so. But government owes a duty to those it helps to do its best to make them self-sufficient. Too often, policies designed to "help" have, instead, created permanent wards of the state, and benefit only those paid to provide the alleged "help."

Similarly, government has not only the power, but the duty to undertake the production and distribution of public goods, meaning those for which there is a need, but no market demand because there is no ability to exclude.

Despite straw man arguments to the contrary, capitalism cannot exist without a government of just laws and regulation. We expect firms to compete on the basis of price and quality. We do not want competition based on unfair exploitation, deception, collusion or violence.

As a conservative, I believe government must undertake actions to optimize the effects of market transactions producing externalities. This means that laws and regulations speaking of maxima or minima almost certainly do not optimize, and are therefore usually ipso facto unreasonable.


I believe the financial crisis had its roots in well-intentioned government policy to increase home ownership. For several years before the crash, conservatives pointed out the danger, and Congress, led by Mssrs. Dodd and Frank, overrode those concerns. For that reason, I find it particularly ironic that liberals trusted those two to create legislation that they allege will solve the problem.

Furthermore, as a conservative, I believe that if a lender lends to a borrower who cannot repay, the "fault" does not lie solely with the lender or borrower. Blaming the consequences of the burst real estate bubble solely on a few people (even solely on Dodd and Frank) is ridiculous. There is plenty of blame to go around. If we want to enforce a reign of terror on those responsible, most of us would lose our heads.

Conservatives don't back something and then pretend they opposed it if it turns out badly. Both Republicans and Democrats supported the invasion of Iraq. They shared the same intelligence. The cowardice of politicians trying to say "I didn't mean that" disgusts me. It's certainly fair to hold Bush II responsible for poor execution, but to say that only Republicans or conservatives were responsible for the invasion requires selective amnesia.

That said, as a conservative, I consider war the greatest violation possible against human freedom and, for that reason, something we should never undertake unless we are ready, as a whole, to support it wholeheartedly. I supported the conversion to a volunteer army because I thought it would impose the cost of further war making on society as a whole, rather than entirely on draftees. That didn't seem to work, because we didn't pay for future wars on a pay-as-you go basis. Maybe liberals have a better idea there.

Finally, I observe that the Democrats are bought and paid for by those who seek to use government to enrich themselves at the expense or everyone else: government employees, plaintiffs' lawyers, businesses making products the public does not want to buy, and rich preservationists wanting the proletariat to eat cake. They have in common a disdain for ordinary Americans, as shown on ST by the snide comments made about WalMart shoppers and the disrespectful comments about the United States generally. As much as I disagree with the Tea Party, at least they don't show the same contempt for their fellow citizens.

John
overwatch

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
Should start putting OT on the climbing threads
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Feb 25, 2014 - 04:46pm PT
I too have to commend Will for an outstanding elucidation on what it means to be moral, reasonable, and compassionate. So well stated. Outstanding sir. Much respect.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 25, 2014 - 04:52pm PT
Nicely stated, John, and with a similar level of opinion. As you said, you can't rebut such a statement, because to do so is to say that the writer does not believe what they wrote.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Feb 25, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
JEleazarian ..... well said.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 25, 2014 - 05:09pm PT
Bluering queried.

Do you support lower taxes and a smaller gov't?

TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Feb 25, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
John, you are confusing conservatives with Republicans, Liberals with Democrats. Please note the difference between the two supposedly opposite thread titles.

I, and I expect, the vast majority of Americans, agree with >90% of what both you and Elcapinyoazz support.

TE

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 25, 2014 - 05:31pm PT
And too many people confuse Liberals with Democrats. Not the same thing these days, whatsoever.

Funny thing is that there's sizable overlap between these two positions.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 25, 2014 - 07:01pm PT
interesting post, JohnE

but I have a problem with it

everything you said makes nice sense, how could anyone disagree with the sweeping and broad principles you laid out that you support?

but what you said does not define you as a modern day "conservative" or Republican

why? because you merely said what damn near everyone else supports..

almost ALL Americans support the 2nd Amendment, including almost all Democrats, or "liberals", so it does not hold water to define conservatism as being different from liberalism regarding the 2nd

for example, if you had said that as a modern Republican you support your congresspeople's votes in the House and Senate to not extend background checks to gun show sales then that would differentiate you from the Democrats vote on that bill

high school kids, five years old, almost all Americans support the "Constitution", big deal,
your support for it is taken for granted, that does not define you as a "conservative" because "liberals" also support, and equally serve and die for, the Constitution

so, I find your definition of your conservatism oddly vague, weak, and really just a repetition more of your "values" that are much the same as anyone else's

in addition, I asked for forum conservative's to state what they "opposed" regarding ElCap's recitation of why he is a liberal, not why they define themselves as conservatives



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Feb 25, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
"Reason: The outright Repug/Teabagger HATE POSTS I have witnessed on this and other websites towards anyone that does not side with their political and ideological agendas.


Fixed that for ya.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
so, I find your definition of your conservatism oddly vague, weak, and really just a repetition more of your "values" that are much the same as anyone else's

in addition, I asked for forum conservative's to state what they "opposed" regarding ElCap's recitation of why he is a liberal, not why they define themselves as conservatives

Norton, Will did exactly what you are accusing John of.
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2014 - 08:00pm PT
A this is getting good bump
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 08:09pm PT
Norton asks where I'd disagree with Will's "liberalism", here;

I'm a proud liberal.

A gun-owning, hunting, fishing, served in the military, worked for the military, employed, started working at 15, tax paying, never received public benefits, paid my own way, proud liberal.

Totally agree with these values, they are dying and should be reinvigorated.

I support EQUAL rights, not codified discrimination against gays, women, people of color or any other group. I support separation of church and state and intelligent gun controls like background checks, waiting periods, and mag capacity limits. I don't believe "corporations are people, my friends".

While I don't support discrimination of any kind for hiring and job placement, I also strongly oppose affirmative action, as it puts otherwise lesser qualified people ahead of others just to satisfy quotas, base solely on race and gender. THAT is discrimination.

As for businesses choosing to do business with people they choose, I have no problem with that.

I believe there is, and will always be, a need for welfare and public assistance. I believe there will always be a group of lazy ass people leeching off the public...half desperately poor living in ghettos, the other half plutocrats living in mansions and buying our tax policy via lobbyists and politicians. I believe I'd rather pay taxes to keep the poor 1% in food and housing, than pay a lot more to keep them in prison once they steal and rob to get food or basic needs.

Disagree here strongly. Despite what you may think, I too believe in helping the truly needy. People collecting gov't aid OF ANY TYPE should have to re-apply every 2 years and prove why they cannot be placed into a job by the State/Local job placement people. I think it was Clinton who introduced the 2 year Welfare-To-Work plan. I'd make it quarterly.

I believe substance abuse and addiction is a public health issue, not a criminal one and that prohibition enables black market gangsters. I believe that most, but not everything benefits from capitalism...there is no f*#king innovation in constructing actuarial tables, and thus a public option for health insurance should the minimum, though single payer would be better.

Agree about the drugs. The single-payer crap is unworkable. Just make sensible reforms to the former system we had. Also, set up a basic Fed system (Medicare?) for the uninsured.

I believe Jamie Dimon, Hank Paulson, Lloyd Blanfein and their ilk should swing from the gallows or face the guillotine. I believe the cowards George Bush, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, and Bill Kristol should be next after the bankers...except their arms and legs should go in the guillotine instead of their heads, so they can see what it's like for all the young soldiers permanently maimed in service of their vanity war, after those chickshit as#@&%es avoided service or straight up deserted when they had the chance to fight themselves.

This is the kind of stuff that makes liberals appear to be crazy (and ironically, somewhat violent to those they oppose).

I believe no child should go hungry in this country, regardless of how useless their parents might be. I believe 99% of people want to work, and that Mitt Romney's boys and Paris Hilton can lower thenmselves to drive a Porshe instead of a Bentley when their inheritance is taxed. I believe abortion is between a woman, her doctor, and her own beliefs or conscience, not some outsider and their imaginary sky-man. I believe freely available birth control is the best way to reduce abortions. I believe any theocrat whining about abortion should show me how many kids he's adopted or STFU.

This stuff should not be funded by the Fed gov't. If it's really your "choice", then it's your problem, not mine. And let's leave abortion to the States and women.

I believe the modern GOP is controlled by their looniest fringe..the Plutocrats, Theorcrats, and BatshitoCrat xenophobes, in a way the left has not been in my lifetime. So yes, I am a proud liberal. Who has been right a hell of a lot more than I've been wrong.

Well, that's just your opinion, man...

The Tea-oh-P can go f*#k itself.

That's fine, as a spokesperson for them I can tell you they feel laregly the same way towards you.
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 08:44pm PT
As much as I disagree with the Tea Party, at least they don't show the same contempt for their fellow citizens.

you have to be kidding me.

You have blinders on JohnE
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 08:49pm PT

They can even be gay, Steve !

Indeed, I'm kinda libertarian on this until they start whining about victimhood. Everybody's a fuking victim nowadays it seems, except the sorry SOB collecting free money from the taxpayers...

Ken, give me examples of what you speak.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Feb 25, 2014 - 08:52pm PT
Not to mention no-bid contracts to Halliburton.

Bluering, who is this sorry SOB collecting free money from the tax payers of which you speak?
Got an example?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 08:54pm PT
The bailouts and the whole farm-subsidies thing is utterly wrong. Period.

Same thing with the housing bailouts. That was actually the Genesis of the current-day Tea Party initiated by CNBC's Rick Santelli!

People took out stupid mortgages, were provided to them knowing they were lame by lenders, and I bailed them out. And I still cannot afford a house yet.

Know why? It's currently unaffordable with my financial situation and the market.

RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF BAILING OUT THE STUPID AND LAZY!!!!

It IS that simple...

EDIT: Philo, check out the Jesse Watters segment on Bill O'Reilly.

Surfer dude in Cali who is buying booze/lobster with his EBT card.

John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 08:57pm PT
knowing they were lame by lenders,

maybe a few knew, but I would say the majority did not realize what a mistake they were making.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:23pm PT
A commending post Mr. JohnE!
The differences of politics between you and Will seem to be over abortion? (I'm not really sure of ur stance) but jus because ones ideas differ from that of another, shouldn't we talk it out, then vote. And be consensual with the outcome?
We are closely on the same page here. Why spew hatred when someone doesn't agree with you?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:25pm PT


Yeah, I saw a list of 23 States that provide Welfare/Assistance needs over the Fed minimum wage standard currently being proposed.

We incentivize lazy, and punish small business with Fed regulations. Nice free-market economy you have there....
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
Bluering..

if you were single, how much money would you think it took to live month to month. Not as a healthy dirtbag sleeping in a sleeping bag. But as someone with health problems who needed a roof over their head. give us your guesstimate.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
Ken, maybe like 40 grand or so. In calif....less elesewhere.

Here's the welfare/minimum-wage link I talked about;
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/02/on-labor-day-2013-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-work-in-35-states/

I was wrong, it's 35 States, not 23....
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:33pm PT
^^^ don't you know socialism when you see it?
I thought you'd be for it, being a catholic and all?
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:35pm PT
Ken, maybe like 40 grand or so. In calif....less elesewhere.

were you answering me?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
^^^ don't you know socialism when you see it?
I thought you'd be for it, being a catholic and all?


Part of the mistake people like you make. The Catholic church provides free stuff through charity. They're tax-exempted, but they do good through tax-free DONATIONS, not taxes without my consent.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
Surfer dude in Cali who is buying booze/lobster with his EBT card.

Charles?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
Bluey,
Did you consent to all the donated money's that went toward their Space program. Telescopes and whatnot. Or how much moneys the church payed out to the sexual harassment charges? But that's arguementive stuff. The problem with the Catholic Church is that it thinks it gets good for doing good.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:11pm PT
Blocr, I'm a big proponent of NASA and the space program for a couple of reasons. It promotes science and research of our perimeter, but adds countless advances to technology. I consider it part of the National Defense budget. It is.

When are you people going to let go of the Catholic Church sex allegations? I thought we were talking their charitable contributions with regard to Socialism?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:24pm PT
If someone takes your labor under the duress of force if you refuse

is that

charity

or

theft?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:25pm PT
Blocr, I'm a big proponent of NASA and the space program for a couple of reasons. It promotes science and research of our perimeter, but adds countless advances to technology. I consider it part of the National Defense budget. It is.

Cool me too. But how is it that a church invests with untaxed proceeds?


When are you people going to let go of the Catholic Church sex allegations? I thought we were talking their charitable contributions with regard to Socialism?

I'm not holding a grudge, I've forgiven. But with an authority of do good, get good. What do those old men get? Exasperated by ur donations?
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
come on Blue, is this your answer to my question?

Ken, maybe like 40 grand or so. In calif....less elesewhere.

I don't see Ken posting on this thread recently.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:33pm PT
PS, they allegations were not allegations they are a fact.


Yeah, yeah, I know. Just seems that many other cases were fabricated once the snowball was rolling. Gang-up on the Catholics.

Funny how we hear so much about sh#t like that till this day, but you probably couldn't tell me how many Christian children had their throats cut yesterday morning in Nigeria, just because they were Christians at the hands of Muslims. Seems like it's easier to demonize Catholics than Muslims nowadays. Safer.

I'll give you hint, the death toll is going above 40 as of today, as they're still recovering burnt bodies.

http://patdollard.com/2014/02/some-were-burned-alive-boko-haram-jihadis-brutally-slaughter-43-children-in-nigerian-school/

Seems to be a double-standard in the MSM.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
Charles, couldn't pass that one up.

Jon C
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:43pm PT
Bubble buyers should have read contracts more closely.

I have no doubt that some people took advantage of the loans, but there is proof that many people were deceived. Many people without the intellect. Who is more at fault? The person of low intellect and likely lesser power, or the person of greater intellect and greater power?

the bible gives you a hint Blue.


And why do you not answer my question?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:45pm PT
Charles, the whole "living-wage" arguement is a bit bogus in the larger scheme of things.

It implies that you are "owed" something if you aren't making it.

This is why family-values and an early work-ethic are essential to high schools. As well as the NEED to graduate and try to do well in school.

Working in the latter years of high school should be REQUIRED! All this minimum-wage talk would go away. Nobody raising a family should be making minimum wage, but if they are, that's their lack of fortitude.

They should HAVE to suffer a bit, which is what it is, a bit, and realize that upward job-mobility is very desirable if you do not like living in poverty.

This is where I will sound insensitive, but people have to work through poverty sometimes to get out of it. Not through handouts, but work! Earn it!
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:55pm PT
I fully agree that one should read over a contract very carefully, but I also realize that there are those who were preyed on who simply didn't have the intellect to understand what they were getting into. I would hope that the government would be there to help protect those people. Something I believe it failed at miserably.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:56pm PT
I have no doubt that some people took advantage of the loans, but there is proof that many people were deceived. Many people without the intellect. Who is more at fault? The person of low intellect and likely lesser power, or the person of greater intellect and greater power?

Remember the Community Reinvestment Act started by Jimmy Carter that spwaned Fannie/Fredie, that was further weakened for "minorities" by Dodd/Frank? This is what misguided, blind liberalism sows. Handouts to people who should not get them. Affirmative-action in real estate while those of us who're resposible have to bail them out with our tax dollars.

And you wonder why the Tea Party is so pissed off? That is it in a nut-shell.

the bible gives you a hint Blue

Awesome that you seem to only use the word of God when it suits your political debate. Maybe you should re-evaluate that.


And why do you not answer my question?
What question?
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:57pm PT
this one

Bluering..

if you were single, how much money would you think it took to live month to month. Not as a healthy dirtbag sleeping in a sleeping bag. But as someone with health problems who needed a roof over their head. give us your guesstimate.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:58pm PT
I answered that previously, Ken. Look back.

40 grand in California....
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
My name isn't ken.. so that was a bit confusing. Do you believe that I am ken?
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:01pm PT
I fully agree Sullly.

I live at the other end of the spectrum and have seen people ruined by unscrupulous lenders. Preyed on because they had a dream.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:04pm PT
Sorry, Johhny, got you confused with Ken M.....

EDIT:
John, I live in Silicon Valley where well-dressed, hip, educated people I know just had to have "the house" and are now whining about being under water. I can name one friend and two cousins as examples. Don't buy champagne on a beer budget.

I hear ya, Sully. My wife and I do pretty well. She is dying for a house but I keep reminding her that we have to buy in the SOuth Bay, and at the low end to be able to safely cover our mortgage.

We are still looking. Financially responsible people are becoming frustrated with California. We keep getting out-bidded on the houses we look at. Up-bidding.

I'll probably be bailing out those people too. And people wonder why I am always pissed off....
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:16pm PT
Here's the welfare/minimum-wage link I talked about;
http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/09/02/on-labor-day-2013-welfare-pays-more-than-minimum-wage-work-in-35-states/

I was wrong, it's 35 States, not 23….

Oh Blue, that is from the Cato study. A study that is horribly flawed. This is why I keep suggesting that you get hands on experience. Go to your Catholic church and find out who works with the poor. Then start talking to the poor. I know of no one who has ever gotten every benefit the government offers. And I have a fair amount of experience with that.
John M

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:19pm PT
Did you take every tax break that you could possibly take? Are you sure?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:29pm PT
^^^ are you condoning the raise of min-wage?
After the last 3 raises how come the poor ain't rich yet?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:36pm PT
After the last 3 raises how come the poor ain't rich yet?


You can't see the fallacy of this? Do you understand economics and free-markets?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:56pm PT
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Feb 26, 2014 - 12:14am PT
^^ i ain't great. But I see a raise in min wage as a raise in the GNP. and that jus means more tax money for Uncle Sam. That why he provokes it. This is jus a smokescreen by ur unclesam
to overlook his good credit and over the cliff spending that put the federal deficit where you, me, and every other American owes 80k+. Why does it bother you where the lazy get their food? Is it because you dont think they are standing up as an American and paying off the federal debt?

Maybe the reasoning is, by raising the minwage we'll pay off the debt faster?

Or mAybe by giving the people that earn the minwage an extra 40 bucks a week, they will be able to pay the MANDATORY health insurance bill next month?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 26, 2014 - 02:35am PT
While I know he can defend himself, I want to stick up for Dr. F. here. While he posts plenty of hyperbole, he posts almost all of his hyperbole with his tongue rather clearly in his cheek, rather than dripping in the vitriol with which some others post. He's just stirring the pot. When he's serious, he posts mostly quotes and well-sourced articles.

I think the most perceptive posts have noted the truth -- most conservatives, liberals, Democrats and Republicans share not only an overwhelming amount of common goals, but support the same means to get there. While we attack and criticize each other, we're really nibbling around the fringes. I am thankful that most Americans still agree on most things.

Besides, he's learned the fine Armenian art of "shishing"


John
dirtbag

climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 08:25am PT

Maybe the reasoning is, by raising the minwage we'll pay off the debt faster?

Yes, in part, but not for the reason you think.

Tax revenues would not likely go up much. People receiving the increase would still be at the bottom tax tier.

However, it would reduce public assistance. Much public assistance goes to help the working poor.

Would that be a bad thing?

clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Feb 26, 2014 - 10:43am PT
Raising the minimum wage is good for experienced adult workers. Teenagers can hardly get work, when an employer can hire an adult to do the same job.
Lets say the mw is $10hr, start 14-15yr old at $6hr, allow 16-17yr olds to work at $8hr. Youngsters will cycle into higher wage positions as they age, making opportunity for new hires.

Kids not working is a blight in our communities, I have three in high school and see the effects in this age group. The poor working and middle class families have kids that roam around...that could be learning responsibility and skills, getting out of the house but not on the streets, being accountable to an employer.



Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 26, 2014 - 11:19am PT
JE, did it occur to you that posting a picture of you 'shishing' in the dirt
while wearing rubber gloves does nothing for yer credibility? I view that
in the same vein as soloing with a helmet on.

And I thought it was shashleek (phonetically) in Armenian?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Feb 26, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
And I thought it was shashleek (phonetically) in Armenian?

Quite right, but I figured I'd use the term with which more people are familiar.

John

P.S. The gloves prevent my hands from smelling like onions and marinade. I didn't want to attract bears to my tent!

;-)
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 4, 2014 - 07:43am PT

Factoid?...Solyndra is to Obama as Halliburton was to Bush


WOW!
Hyperbole or ignorance?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 5, 2014 - 10:37am PT
Did you guys hear about Florida Democrat Alan Grayson beating his wife?

yes, I read that yesterday, I never knew Democrats are subject to human weaknesses, you?

I guess only Republicans can claim the moral high ground, family values people and all

significance of posting that = so damn tired of reading of Republicans saying and doing really stupid things that just so relieve to find a dumb Democrat, had to share

WBraun

climber
Mar 5, 2014 - 11:04am PT
Yer all stupid whiny politards, every fuking one of ya ......

and the Putinator is coming.

He's gonna kick yer whiny stupid ass .....
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