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ec
climber
ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 21, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
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Forest Plans To Rebuild Needles Fire Lookout Tower
February 20, 2014
Springville, CA – The Needles Fire Lookout Tower, located on the Western Divide Ranger District within the Giant Sequoia National Monument on the Sequoia National Forest was destroyed in a structure fire in July 2011. The purpose of this project is to rebuild the Needles Lookout Tower with a structure that maintains the same “look and feel” as the original structure while complying with current building codes and safety requirements.
There is a need to ensure all electronic equipment is replaced with new equipment meeting current technology standards, providing the necessary communication for agency personnel (e.g., firefighters and wilderness rangers) and supporting backcountry users. There is also a need to restore the lookout as the popular recreation destination it used to be.
The Needles are a series of massive granite rock formations rising up from the North Fork of the Kern River near its junction with the Little Kern River. The Needles and other geological features are identified as objects of interest in the Giant Sequoia National Monument Management Plan.
The lookout tower was constructed in 1937-38 by the Civilian Conservation Corps atop the rock formation at 8,245 feet. A Forest Service employee, stationed in the tower, was responsible for detecting fires and relaying radio messages to a dispatcher, who in turn sent firefighters and support equipment to extinguish the reported fire. The tower was utilized as this employee’s office as well as their home for the summer months while the lookout was on duty.
A draft Decision Memo detailing the proposal is available for review at the Western Divide Ranger District Office, 32588 Highway 190, Springville, California. For additional information, or to obtain a copy of the draft Decision Memo, contact: Linn Gassaway, Zone Archaeologist, at (559) 338-2251, extension 396. The draft Decision Memo is also available at http://www.fs.usda.gov/goto/sequoia/Needles
Comments will be accepted for 30 calendar days following publication of the legal notice in the Porterville Recorder. Legal notice will also be published in the Bakersfield Californian. Comments should be provided by mail, fax, e-mail, or in-person to the responsible official: Rick Stevens, District Ranger of the Western Divide Ranger District. Comments can be mailed to: 32588 Highway 190, Springville, CA 93265; e-mailed to: comments-pacificsouthwest-sequoia@fs.fed.us with Subject: Needles; or faxed to (559) 539-2067. Acceptable formats for electronic submissions include e-mail message, plain text (.txt) or rich text format (.rtf); Word document (.doc or .docx); or portable document file (.pdf). Hand-delivered comments should be submitted during the business hours of 8:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.
(via US Forest Service)
http://www.lakeisabella.net/forest-plans-to-rebuild-needles-fire-lookout-tower/
http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558/abc123/forestservic.download.akamai.com/11558/www/nepa/83810_FSPLT3_1624350.pdf
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Edge
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Feb 21, 2014 - 05:27pm PT
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Man, I'd love to get the contract to rebuild.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Feb 21, 2014 - 05:42pm PT
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Will there be cookies again?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 05:48pm PT
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Cool.
Margee will be stoked
Hope they do a good job with the stairway
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 05:52pm PT
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Yay! I hope it happens....
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Feb 21, 2014 - 06:15pm PT
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Awesome. It is a shame it was in its current state for a few years...
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Climberdude
Trad climber
Fresno, CA
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Feb 21, 2014 - 07:27pm PT
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I have not had a chance to review the documents yet, but do intend to and will comment. A potential issue could be the FS deciding that the rebuilt lookout is a security zone and thus climbers would lose access to this area. I wonder if this is discussed in the documents as it seems that the federal government is designating any place that has communication equipment as a security zone with limited access.
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ec
climber
ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2014 - 12:07pm PT
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Bump ta get da word out!
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ec
climber
ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 24, 2014 - 11:46am PT
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Again!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Feb 24, 2014 - 11:48am PT
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I guarantee I could do it with Brandon for 1/4 the guvmint cost.
And that includes me sitting in an easy chair drinking beer while watching Brandon.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Feb 24, 2014 - 11:54am PT
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A potential issue could be the FS deciding that the rebuilt lookout is a security zone and thus climbers would lose access to this area.
Dual bureaucracy, not just in America. There are glaciers, and then there are glaciers.
I call party foul!
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ec
climber
ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 25, 2014 - 07:57pm PT
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ooomph! back to the top...
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Feb 25, 2014 - 08:45pm PT
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It boggles my mind that climbers would be the main proponents of installing a tourist attraction on top of some of California's finest rocks.
"Would you be in favor of new lookouts being built?"
I'm absolutely not in favor.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Feb 25, 2014 - 09:58pm PT
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I've been there numerous times.
Calling it a "tourist attraction"?
A five mile trail makes for determined "tourists"
It's an historical artifact worthy of preservation
On a practical level for climbers, if the lookout is not rebuilt it won't be long until first the campground at the end of the road is closed and soon after the access road itself disappears to be replaced by bulldozed piles of earth and a locked gate.
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MH2
climber
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Feb 25, 2014 - 10:06pm PT
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Why do we need to rebuild the lookout?
I'd tell you what was so special about it if only it weren't too cool for words. Definitely don't need to rebuild it but it would be cool if they did. Some things are just right, and the lookout was one of those.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Feb 25, 2014 - 10:44pm PT
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Solem, what is the word? Right on target Wendel.
TY
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ec
climber
ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 27, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
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Wow...I was merely trying to get the word out so those that had been there that cared enough to join into the public input could. While all the comments have merit, some remind me of the lame-ass comments for movies and sh*t, "I haven't seen it, but..." If you hadn't been there, STFU...
 ec
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Feb 27, 2014 - 08:29pm PT
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If you had been there you'd know the answer.
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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Feb 27, 2014 - 09:42pm PT
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I agree with TGT that having the lookout there preserves access, otherwise in no time the FS has no money and no reason to maintain the road etc. And the tower was cool, something special about it, it somehow belonged there.
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MH2
climber
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Feb 27, 2014 - 10:21pm PT
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ec
climber
ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2014 - 11:50pm PT
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I never wanted input here. Input to the Feds.
ec
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
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I've been there. Couldn't care less if it was there or not.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Randisi kinda brings up a good point I hadn't considered. It was a really cool structure. It really sucks that it got destroyed, but I don't understand rebuilding it. It's not the '20s any more. We have satellites to monitor fires these days, and don't need lookout towers. In light of the complaints about a lack of $ for road maintenance... it seems a bit wasteful to put money into it.
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MikeL
Trad climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
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Never had the cookies, but Margee was a class act and a wonderful person to visit the times that I climbed there.
If forgoing the rebuilding of the structure will threaten future climbing, then rebuild. If not, then no matter other than losing a piece of nostalgia. Everything is impermanent . . . even memories.
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ec
climber
ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 2, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
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BJ, I wasn't crying, buddy. Yeahs public forums have their moments.
Whatever...thx for the apology.
ec
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Yes,
Let's get rid of these blights on the landscape too.
Margie's house somehow had more of this feel minus the crowds.
Hope they can find a vintage firefinder to equip it with.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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It boggles my mind that climbers would be the main proponents of installing a tourist attraction on top of some of California's finest rocks.
While there's a vocal segment of climbers who support the rebuild, climbers are nowhere near the main proponents. I've been to meetings of the Giant Sequoia Nat. Monument Association, hardly a climbers group, and the numbers of hikers clubs, school and church groups, scout groups and so forth who have pressured the FS to rebuild the lookout dwarfs the numbers of climbers. Basically climbers have zero clout in this decision.
I agree with the decision, and as my friend I respect your point of view. The Needles Lookout was unique among such structures, and just because I would favor seeing it restored does not mean I support building new lookouts all over the place. I think that is a straw man argument.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Generally, I am opposed to structures in the wilderness. But the Needles Lookout was unique as far as I'm concerned. And, other than replacing this particular one, it's not like the Forest Service is going to implement a new policy of building new ones where there were none before.
While I can't say that I'd cry bitter tears if all evidence of the lookout and the stairs were removed, leaving it somewhat pristine. That would be remarkable frankly. At the same time I would be happy if it was rebuilt and I could take my family there for cookies and simply enjoy yet again the vibe from that structure. How can you reconcile the crowds, the bolts, the rap anchors, the trails, the litter, yet take offense at a structure that was there before all of those other things?
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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They could build a Mountain Hut complete with Coffee Shop and Spatzli.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Looking forward to the rebuilt lookout, and the nice new hefty fire extinguisher in the corner.
: )
the lookout was a wonderful place to have a friendly discussion with a federal employee...
maybe even bring lettuce, or a steak... helped them like the climbing community...
and it was a wonderful place to bring those who did not climb.
access? yes.
and for those who chop, just think of it as one big nasty bolt! Haha Ha
but if you have never been, and want to complain, how about just go complain at places you already go?
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Yafer
Trad climber
Chatsworth, California
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I agree/ Don't rebuild that thing..
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Yafer my friend, I'll bet you that if the "thing" hadn't burned down and you hung out up there burning in your way, you would be saying "man this is so cool..."
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rwedgee
Ice climber
canyon country,CA
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The great irony is that she is put there to watch for fires but couldn't find one in her own house...really ? The price tag for a new on is going to be in the millions and then pay someone to sit the and sleep all day is a colossal waste of money for something that is useless but "cool". Better off just using it on the road or just sack up and hike in if they close it.
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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F*#k the stairs, they're putting one of these in.
ec Bump!
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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"Fire lookouts are things of the past."...JMO, all the more reason to rebuild and preserve.
Last fall, Timid and i hiked 10 miles to the fire lookout in our area.
Colby Mt. Fire lookout
The Fire lookout dude, manning the lookout for over 25 years.
The view, Mt Brokeoff and Lassen pk.
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rincon
climber
Coarsegold
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Sep 27, 2015 - 08:34am PT
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"Needles Lookout gets funding"
http://www.recorderonline.com/news/needles-lookout-gets-funding/article_27da564a-6075-11e5-8854-cb9f3a37026e.html
Personally I had hoped that they had forgotten about this, but apparently not. It seems like a misappropriation of funds, since a lookout does not do any of the things that "title II RAC projects" are supposed to do.
"The money is from Title II RAC projects to enhance forest ecosystems and restore and improve land health and water quality on the Sequoia National Forest and other nearby lands in Tulare and Kern counties"
$30,000 isn't going to pay for much though. Where's the rest of the money coming from?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Sep 27, 2015 - 02:41pm PT
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Sep 27, 2015 - 05:18pm PT
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I thought government building were supposed to conform to ADA?
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mooch
Trad climber
Tribal Base Camp (Kernville Annex)
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. It really sucks that it got destroyed, but I don't understand rebuilding it.
Because it's severely needed. Regardless of modern technology and the ability for NOAA to detect fires from space, the fire tower is a much needed asset to this area. TThe Domelands Wilderness and surrounding areas have seen many fires throughout the years, mainly from lightning strikes. Currently, there is a fire going on (Schaffer Fire), which is near the same burn area as the McNally Fire.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I was up there with Margee about a year before the thing burned. We were watching aircraft dropping retardant on a fire. But there were two fires, and Margee saw that they were hitting the wrong one, the one they wanted to let burn rather than the one they wanted to contain. She got on the radio and sorted it out.
Boots on the ground vs. GPS and SatCom...
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Matt's
climber
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As a climber, it would be nice to have the fire tower there again-- makes contact with outside world easier in case of accident. I liked seeing margee living there, and I think it's cool as a tourist destination
But-With respect to fire safety-- how many fires has this station really stopped? Is this really an efficacious use of resources? All I know is that it has caused one fire... I doubt the argument can be made for the lookout from a fire safety perspective
Best
Matt
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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All the Fire Lookouts in the Southern Sierra have Webcams now with mostly a 360* view. https://rockyags.cr.usgs.gov/dashboards/WebCam.htm
I'd love to see the Needles Lookout Rebuilt again. But, it will never be the same as it was. I'm pretty sure Margee wouldn't be there and probably it wouldn't even have anyone living up there. Most of the other lookouts have a road that goes up to it. The Needles lookout requires some tricky logistics to make it happen, some of which only a Helicopter could do, though they have a ship close by. I will be interested in seeing if the Forest Service moves on this at all.....
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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Im sure a friend that lives nearby would certainly appreciate any opportunity at an earlier warning of fire and direction on suppression efforts. There's not many ways out of there.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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I think I was up there in 1990, nice lady working the tower, was that Margee? I do not remember a long hike to the tower, but could have been.
A friend of mine worked the Miami Mountain tower (Mariposa) for years, paid position, seasonal. She quit when they asked her to be a volunteer, was not that good of a job.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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From a few weekends ago. You can still walk to the top but it feels weird without the lookout.
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nathanael
climber
CA
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You can still walk to the top but it feels weird without the lookout.
last year you could walk to the top in the late may/early june, but when I went back in july there was a gate at the bottom of the stairs that was locked and you couldn't get up there to get a view of the needles. bummer for the tourists who hiked out there to not get a decent view, they weren't about to scramble off trail either.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Fat.... is there a railing up there?
I think they need to just make a nice platform....stick one of those 360 degree panorama relief maps on it, add a nice photo display showing how it was at one time, install a coin operated cookie vending machine and leave it at that.
Hikers would still have a nice destination and climbers could still get cookies on Sunday.... a win win.
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Contractor
Boulder climber
CA
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The demo and clean up effort is going to be huge. There's debris strewn all over the hillside.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Guy, do you mean at the end of the staircase? The gate was open at the bottom so we puttered up there. At the top there's just a gap where the lookout used to be. You can lean across, scramble up and sit on the concrete foundation where the structure used to be, or scramble around the summit. Me and kids had some snacks up top and then headed down.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Everything's gotta be a federal phukking production nowadays, eh? They built the phukking Al-Can Highway in like 9 months. That lookout could be built in Kernville in a couple of chunks and heloed up there. 6 months - if yer retarded.
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