A lesson in water politics

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Messages 101 - 120 of total 137 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
John M

climber
Feb 13, 2014 - 11:49pm PT
LOL.. yep Jerry would eat off your plate.

There were sites for water storage planned for the state water project. One was just south of the San Luis reservoir. wiki explains some of it. skip down to Controversy and Modern issues. I'm not certain how balanced it is, or if it covers every issue, but is explains some of the issues involved. We already pump water over the Tehachapi mountains. Because we didn't finish the state water project, I don't think the aqueduct is being used to capacity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Water_Project
klk

Trad climber
cali
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:07am PT
We already pump water over the Tehachapi mountains. Because we didn't finish the state water project, I don't think the aqueduct is being used to capacity

Indeed we do. I always appreciate the xmas lights they drape over the aqueduct in season when I'm dropping down into the basin.

southern sj agribusiness development has created new demands on that cvp water. and the changing climate has meant there's less water to deliver. plus, much of what was ag land when the cvp started is now residential, so the demand is way lower. and mwd has been one of the best in conservation management-- way better than some of the norcal districts like sacramento.

i don't have an insider's take on last year's lat season deliveries to mwd.

and let me be clear-- i'm not entirely opposed to the cvp. there's no imaginable 21st century california that's livable that doesn't involve subsidized water delivery.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:25am PT
Tax credits for xeriscaping our yards.

Pasadena doesn't give tax credits, it PAYS YOU to Xeriscape, as does LA
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:30am PT
Why is greater reservoir capacity is not a viable solution?

The only issues that immediately come to mind for me are:
1) construction and operation costs, who pays for it vs. who benefits from it
2) environmental impacts, ecosystems that require fast-flowing water and sedimentation, fish spawing grounds, etc.

the first issue is TIME. To build a substantial dam would probably take in the range of 20-30 years. Won't help us soon enough.

Dams are also inefficient. An enormous amount of water is lost to evaporation.

We largely don't need it. Most of the water that might be captured by dams is ALREADY captured, and that that is not, is because there is no simple way to capture it. We could build a dam in the LA basin.....but there happens to be a city located there.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:39am PT
"Because we need more and more water. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be looking for ways to use less, of course. We are facing a potential long term draught. How do you make more water? Dams are more damaging than disaliation, IMO. It is easy to yell slogans, but difficult to find solutions. We got to do something. Any water solution for California will have some impact on the environment. We just need to find least damaging."

here's how:

http://ideas.time.com/2013/10/11/how-los-angeles-can-become-water-independent/

Repairing leaks, capturing rainwater, and wastewater recycling could end L.A.'s dependence on distant water sources

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:47am PT
I'm for building a desalinization plant for the sole purpose of AG only in California.

where would you build it?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:57am PT
Dingus while your post is good you skirt the real issue. Population.

This is simply not true. Los Angeles uses the same amount of water as FORTY years ago, in spite of millions in population growth.

In the following link, in about the center, there is an explained table of where water goes.

The proportion of ag is 33, urban use 9

So the big gorilla is ag, when it comes to Statewide use of water:

http://californiawaterblog.com/2011/05/05/water%E2%80%94who-uses-how-much/
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Feb 14, 2014 - 01:05am PT
A DMT thread with no selfies is like a day without sunshine





















































Ditto a rSin post without schizophrenia. Not to worry, haven't seen one of those yet
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Feb 14, 2014 - 01:43am PT
I am not sure what some of you are saying about the agriculture. Do you want to limit it by, let's say 50%? Somebody has to produce food. No?

Food production is good business. It is subsidized in other countries too. That said, the water managment is fuked up.

We need both, better water usage and more water resources. IMhO

Andrzej
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 14, 2014 - 01:55am PT
for those of you who missed it, bluering and the chief have just proposed that we spend a few hundred billions of taxpayer dollars creating a lake or two that will inundate the i5 corridor and other related infrastructure along the low points of the sj. valley.

they've also just revealed that neither of them can read a topo map.

or possibly that they've just really drunk.

Fine. Let's just spend 10 times more on a train that goes though the area we don't need. That's a sober idea. Especially when everybody is bitching about water shortages.

How much would it cost to build reservoirs in that area? Since you're such a sober genius you prolly have the figures right at your hands. Although it is late.

You don't think we can build reservoirs on that line? I doubt you. It can be done. It 's a long area, just find the right spot.

And even if it has to be dug, it is still worth it in the long term.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2014 - 09:40am PT
How much would it cost to build reservoirs in that area? Since you're such a sober genius you prolly have the figures right at your hands. Although it is late.

You don't think we can build reservoirs on that line? I doubt you. It can be done. It 's a long area, just find the right spot.

And even if it has to be dug, it is still worth it in the long term.

Doesn't matter how many reservoirs are built, they will get used to capacity sooner rather than later. Folks complain about population, TOO MANY PEOPLE!!!11111

What do you think MORE WATER will do for the population of California?

I've written before about Sites, the area and canyon in Colusa County that Schwarzenegger's government proposed and the state water agency wants to drown to slake SoCal and Westlands Water district ag user thirst. Its a beautiful area with old school ranches, what this part of California used to look like.

Why drown yet another valley to slake a thirst that cannot be sated? How many more valleys must die before people learn the lesson. Try not to panic, do some breathing or something. Unsound decisions are made from this fear, witness Iraq and Afghanistan debacles - lurching, ridiculous, panic-laden reactions to fear. So the reservoirs are low? So some ag users will have to let their trees die? So fricking what?

Ground storage does seem to be the way.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2014 - 11:06am PT
I heard about an interesting project down in the Panoche water district - San Joaquin valley west side. This is an area served by the Delta Mendota canal - Trinity River water shipped to a desert region with no natural drainage.

can-this-solar-desalination-startup-solve-california-water-woes

Hopefully this thing won't be the same blight as that Mojave solar power generation thing (but I have my doubts).

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2014 - 11:18am PT
Well its not like building the largest wind farm in the US at a major junction of the Pacific flyway migration route (ie Altamont Pass)... but yeah, a blight nevertheless.

DMT
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Feb 14, 2014 - 11:42am PT
I told you, go nuclear!

Andrzej
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2014 - 11:53am PT
You mean... in some cases, DOING NOTHING is better than doing ANYTHING?

Have to agree with you right there.

That's twice now, that I've agreed with you on some point or other.

There's hope for you yet!

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2014 - 12:15pm PT
moosey demonstrates our sin (and mother Russia's too)

Lol.

DMT
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:17pm PT
Energy of the future will most likely be a space-based solar power plant.

One would hope.

I an torn about the nuclear power, to tell the truth. France an Belgium use it as their primary energy source, so it can be done. On the other hand, when just one plant blows up, it can be a total disaster.

Andrzej
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:23pm PT
Rainwater capture is also promising. In just one large rainstorm, 10 billion gallons of runoff, one twentieth of our yearly need, end up in the Pacific Ocean. The technology to capture large quantities is not quite developed, but people are working on it.
http://ideas.time.com/2013/10/11/how-los-angeles-can-become-water-independent/#ixzz2tGzoDzN2


Bingo.... what solution/s are "they" working on?

Here is an example in this short video, "Free Water":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aQrZtG-LVg
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
PUAKO, BIG ISLAND Kohala Coast
Feb 14, 2014 - 12:27pm PT
Water politics, whoever is deeper in the wave has the right of way....tired of people dropping in on me with no knowledge of wave etiquette ...
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Feb 14, 2014 - 01:29pm PT
& how many radiation leaks has france had in the last ten years?

At least 4.
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