A lesson in water politics

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Messages 101 - 120 of total 183 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Feb 13, 2014 - 11:54am PT
Retracted.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 13, 2014 - 12:10pm PT
Its about population isnt it?


Did you know,, that in Cal, NV, Az, NM and TX, the minority birth rates are 60% to 86%. Populations that know nothing of conservation of any shape or form.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Feb 13, 2014 - 12:22pm PT


So whats the next big crisis? Climate? Water? Oil? Disease? Natural disaster? Terror? Overpopulation?
So many options, so little real effort to change. Reality, it seems, is that the masses either dont realize the potential, or simply dont care.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Feb 13, 2014 - 12:33pm PT
Mm-k.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Feb 13, 2014 - 01:06pm PT
No, I read English just fine. You do not write clearly, and invite scrutinization.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Feb 13, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
You know what? Never mind. Just keep doin your thing. It adds a fascinating aspect to the dialogue.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Feb 13, 2014 - 03:08pm PT
care to tell us the last vote you made for a rep who didnt think birth control was a sin?

A little overcooked, but solid point.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Feb 13, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
Not that its germane to the topic, but ive voted for many that approve of birth control.

Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Feb 13, 2014 - 07:16pm PT
Read Cadillac Desert by Marc Reisner. CA and most of the west wouldn't have be having a population explosion if things hadn't been done with the natural flow of water in the west.

moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Feb 13, 2014 - 08:34pm PT
I don't get you, rSin. Why are you so angry? Can we have a civilized discussion?

Andrzej
klk

Trad climber
cali
Feb 13, 2014 - 09:41pm PT
Obviously YOU dingus did not read Bob's link.

Bob's link too the ppic page ought to have calmed you down-- it points out very clearly what most folks here have been telling you, that the vast majority of water used in cali is used by agriculture and has nothing to do with population growth.

the boldfaced part of in your quote from the link comes from the book I keep trying to get folks to read, The Great Thirst.

Norris Hundley was the leading expert on water history in the western US and one of the leading experts on contemporary water law and policy. Read his frickin book if you want to try and say something informed on the topic. The book ought to be a starting point, rather than a Bible, but you can't even be a n00b if you don't do the beginner work.

I'm guessing that your fixation on urban population growth as the major problem stems from living on the east side-- the east side is indeed one of the few places in Cali where most of the water ends up in urban/residential useage, largely in LA basin. DWP is a huge, and much despised, presence on the East Side, and I can see how a local whose grip on the issue was largely shaped by that could reach the understandable, but erroneous, conclusion, that the Owens Valley experience was representative.

But the Owens case is the anomaly. For a start, only a tiny slice of water in the state of California ever came down that side of the Sierra Crest. The western slope is and always has been vastly more heavily watered, and most of that water goes to agriculture at subsidized prices. It gets turned into beef to feed the nation's obesity epidemic, and much of the rest gets exported to Chine in billions of tiny little almond-shaped packages.

We could easily quadruple California's population. That's not a happy prospect, for me, personally, but statistically it is the case. ANd that has been, traditionally, the way water change has gone--

The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Feb 13, 2014 - 09:51pm PT
it points out very clearly what most folks here have been telling you, that the vast majority of water used in cali is used by agriculture and has nothing to do with population growth.

Where is the final product of all that expanding thirsty agriculture ending up?

In the mouths/bellies of the increasing population... correct?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 13, 2014 - 10:04pm PT
I do know that a small extinctable Smelt is depriving Central Valley Farms of needed water.

Destroying the Central Valley farms is a sin. The smelt is expendable IMO. And there is no guarantee they will be destroyed.

There are simple solutions that lazy State Operators just won't spend the time on. It could be a win-win.
julton

climber
Feb 13, 2014 - 10:13pm PT
Where is the final product of all that expanding thirsty agriculture ending up?

In the mouths/bellies of the increasing population... correct?
Incorrect.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Feb 13, 2014 - 10:16pm PT
I do know that a small extinctable Smelt is depriving Central Valley Farms of needed water

heh.


The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Feb 13, 2014 - 10:26pm PT
Incorrect.

Really... where is all the produce going then.
John M

climber
Feb 13, 2014 - 10:29pm PT
I appreciate what you are explaining klk. I hadn't realized that even though my dad worked for state water resources for 30 years. We always lived on the west side and so I didn't have an appreciation for what goes on on the east side.

I believe the Chief is meaning not just california population growth, but world wide population growth. ( could be wrong about that ) Something we can't really do anything about.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Feb 13, 2014 - 10:34pm PT
I believe the Chief is meaning not just california population growth, but world wide population growth...

Precisely.

70plus % of all California grown Agriculture/Produce is exported throughout the planet and consumed by, Humans as indicated by KLK.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Feb 13, 2014 - 10:36pm PT
my dad worked for state water resources for 30 years

that's cool-- those were the glory years.

was he tech side? policy? admin?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 13, 2014 - 10:39pm PT
I remember back in the mid-80's when New Melones Reservoir was a brand new watershed addition. They even added awesome boat-ramps, stocked it with bass, catfish, trout, and other fish. Me and my Dad did okay on weekend trips to the young lake reeling in bass.

Now it's an awesome watershed that extends the reach of the Stanislaus River holding capacity that is a needed backup to Don Pedro Reservoir.

It extra holding capacity that only started in the mid-late 80's. Good idea!

Now if we could just have a couple of similar large, deep reservoirs between San Lois and Bakersfield, and as a result, feed the LA basin lakes, we'd be super solid. Dry years and wet years to overflow down stream to Southern holding 'tanks'.

Most eco-nuts hate reservoirs but they offer a lot. Water-sports, water (duh), wildlife access, and supply to farm lands.

No-brainer.
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