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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 5, 2006 - 12:38am PT
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Well I've had a week to ponder Gibby's MELtdown, and my feelings haven't altered one bit.
This is something that's hit right here in Taco City recently when, upset with my ridicule, a certain poster resorted to addressing me as "jewboy".
I'm glad to acknowledge that many people jumped down his throat which resulted in a lame apology proffering the excuse that it was the alcohol talking.
It is my feeling that alcohol doesn't talk. It merely lubricates the jaw.
So I for one don't accept a glib cop-out by Mr. MELtdown.
But here is the really weird part; in a thread about the Road Warrior's juice patrol the same poster who pleaded ethanol poisoning then showed up to claim that alcohol was like "truth serum" and that Bravefart was expressing his heartfelt sentiment.
It really surprised me nobody called him on it.
But now that the weekend is here a little entertainment is in order so I figured I would resurrect the issue, kick back, and watch him tap dance.
Yoo hoo. Batter up.
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JAK
climber
Central NC
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1) I think Mel Gibson's a complete frickin' kook.
2) I think Mel Gibson's an anti-semite. I have a hard time believing anyone who has seen The Passion of the Mel would rationally think otherwise. It was obviously designed to demonize the Jews.
I do have a question Ron - are you actually Jewish, or just Hebrew? There is a difference, although I recgonize most people overlook it.
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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I think, we should all start drinking more. Jesus loved wine so much he turned all that mother f*#king water into wine! Passion of drinking!@
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 01:12am PT
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Hebrew?
That's an interesting distinction.
I assume you are differentiating those with specific religious belief from those of ethnic descent.
My religious beliefs are exactly that. I don't debate them.
Elsewhere a climber named Brian Smoot suggested that as a largely secular jew I had no right to complain about my neighbor's kids putting up a disparaging sign with swastikas.
My grandfather played a major role in my upbringing. Three of his siblings along with their spouses and children died in the camps.
I doubt very much that the Nazis would have given any of them a pass if they claimed to be secular jews.
Juan, what's that called? The hypocrite two step? If you debated a rock it would come out a draw.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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I am happy to see this stuff come up, because it reminds us that there are people who, not when drunk but when sober, actually think the holocaust was a hoax.
But Ron, why are you so upset about jew-boy?
That's a little like me getting upset when my rail road working, high school educated buddy calls me "college-boy" as a slur, isn't it?
Racism is a funny subject. One expert on the subject used to say that we are all racists, but it's how we deal with that that matters. I think she was right.
But you can get into some big arguments telling someone who fancies themselves totally without prejudice that they are a racist, and god forbid you point out any discrepancies in their (in their opinion) 'non-racist' behavior.
As for alcohol as truth serum, could be, rabbit. I think it is safe to say that some people change a lot when they are really drunk, but as to what comes out being the truth or not, I really do not know.
My sh!thead ex-wife, after we were divorced and not on good terms, would get into one of her drunks and call me up and ask if I still loved her, and would I come see her, LOL! When she was sober, this was the furthest thing from her mind. I never could decide what the truth of the matter was.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 01:45am PT
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Well actually dirt I tend to agree with your "expert". Have you seen the film White Man's Burden?
Made me very uncomfortable to realize that I battled my own innate prejudice.
But just because alcohol can cause far more noticeable changes in some than in others doesn't mean it doesn't bring out the inner person.
The bigger the change, the phonier the person.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Ron,
I have been saying prayers for the Jewish people for the last three weeks. What's the deal. If you want to keep thinking I hate Jews thats you option.
Juan
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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I thought that the German racial biologists of the Ahnenerbe worked long and hard to identify distinctly Jewish racial characteristics and were, in the end, unable to come up with any acceptable formula. In fact, I think they discovered that 12% of German Jews had blonde hair and blue eyes. Even with all the dedicated work they put into their skeleton collection at Strassburg, Himmler's students of Rassenkunde only came up with some vague stuff about fat ear lobes and skinny backs. So what's all this business about pure ethnic versus religious Jews? Just wondering . . .
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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yeah, the distinction has always made me wonder. is being a jew both a race and a religion? what other religions give themeselves a racial distinction.
a drunken biggot is the same when sober only more pitiful.
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Ultrabiker
Ice climber
Eastside
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I can't stand folks that put up Bolt Ladder's next to cracks!!!
Regardless of their Race, Color, Religion, Creed and any of that Civil Rights American BS!!!!! What a bunch of insecure whining! Who cares??? I thought that this was a "CLIMBING FORUM" not a platform to share ones insecurities. Shut up and go climb with some Style and Class! WHAAAAAAAAA!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 09:59am PT
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Looks like Prettyboy has a new name.
Aren't you here a bit early? Normally you don't show up until monday morning.
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Ultrabiker
Ice climber
Eastside
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Hey Piton Ron, can you actually physically climb anything higher than 5.6 without having to pound in a pin and hang from it?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 10:15am PT
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Supertopians should not be misled. Ultrabutthole did not get his name from his churlish behavior, but rather from his penchant for taking long rides without a seat.
Reportedly he is so stretched out that monkeys fly in and out.
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Ultrabiker
Ice climber
Eastside
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Why thank you, "Super Man"!
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Looks like the ultra-Aryan Nation has rolled in.
There goes the neighborhood.
HEy Ronbo, les go pound in some pins on some 5.6. Tar-baby can hang there with us, and we'll drink a beer and have a good time.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 11:41am PT
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Dirt,
brilliant actually. We are no longer OT.
Alcohol, bigots and climbing, you tied it all together with a few lines.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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HAHA, hey Ronbo, even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.
But the idea of hanging on some pins with you and Tar-baby on a 5.6 has a great appeal. The remoter and further from wankers the better.
We can even drink German beer, haha! No aryan wankabees invited.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 04:07pm PT
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Dirt, the term Aryan has gotten a bad rap thanks to the consequences of the weaknesses of some of its proponents. It should be seen in perspective as merely an ethnic description in the same vein as, for example was noted earlier, Hebrew.
I've enjoyed some German beers. After all my father was born in Berlin when Hitler (actually wasn't his real family name something like Schikkelgruber?) was merely another failed Austrian landscape painter. Like many europeans my father believed in teaching his kids to enjoy drinking in moderation.
I remember not liking the beer (or watered down wine) he gave us at first.
There's a very interesting film written and directed by Menno Meyjes and starring John Cusack that takes place in Germany in the 20s and looks at Hitler as a failing artist posing a tragic "what if" question.
The name of the film is simply "Max".
Anyway, beer is one of those wonderful things that has spread worldwide and yet each culture has made its own distinctive style of libation. I only wish it was as easy to bridge cultural borders without the lubricating effects of ethanol.
Still, aside from reduced co-ordination and slurred speach, it never induced me to abandon my political beliefs or values.
I still think its a cop-out to say that it was the alcohol talking.
BTW my father moved to Argentina in '35 and was taught to speak english in the late 40s by an art and music lover from Amsterdam who, having a German mother, had been raised speaking german (and english) as well as her native Dutch.
She would years later become my mother.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Ron,
I felt angered and disappointed by Mel's comments. Truly, I don't get it.
Mel's film The Passion of the Christ is biblically and historically accurate. It does not portray the Jewish people negatively, but rather the Jewish religious leaders of the time who persecuted and ultimately caused the death of Jesus, apparently for political reasons.
That ain't my point.
Prior to the film's release, I watched a fairly lengthy interview of Mel. In it the interviewer suggested that some might consider the film anti-Semetic.
Ron, I want you to know that in this interview, Mel spoke very highly of the Jewish people, and referred to them correctly as God's Chosen. He showed great respect and deference for both the people and the religion. I wish you could see the interview, and hope that you can.
Which is why his drunken comments came as such a surprise and disappointment to me.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 07:05pm PT
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So Pete,
do you think the interview responses were prepared pc positions or sincere?
Do you think that alcohol can actually take over a person's sense of what is right? Can actually close an open mind?
You speak of disappointment, but I'm not sure IN WHAT. Do you think that this is a case of people all to eager to see a person more successful than them be brought down and are on a feeding frenzy, or a case of well justified indignation.
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JAK
climber
Central NC
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yeah, the distinction has always made me wonder. is being a jew both a race and a religion? what other religions give themeselves a racial distinction.
AFAIK Jewish means a follower of Judaism and does not imply ethnicity. Hebrew does (descendants of Noah, biblically speaking), and doesn't necessarily mean Jewish).
That's why I always thought "I hate Jews" was kind of a weird ethnic slur. I don't think it's actually referring to an ethnic group.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Ron,
I can tell you that Mel Gibson is a passionate Believer and Christian - that was fully evidenced in the responses in his interview. His responses were absolutely sincere and straight from his heart. Remember, he made the movie because he believes.
Which is why I was so incredibly disappointed in Mel to make those dumbass comments! It did not seem consistent with his character as I understood him to be. So I just don't get it. I'd like to know what the heck he was thinking!
And no, of course the alcohol doesn't account for it.
Incidentally, I grew up as a Token Goy on an All-Jewish Street. The Jewish kids for the most part kept to themselves, but I played a bit with them from time to time. The big kid next door, who was a year-and-a-half younger than me but twenty or thirty pounds bigger, particularly liked killing me in various contact sports like football and British Bulldog.
One time I got into an altercation with one of the kids, and I called him a "Kike". He told his mother, his mother called my mother, and my mother made me immediately march down the street, knock on the kid's door, and apologize to him.
It was a damn good lesson I learned that day.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2006 - 11:26pm PT
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Hmm, token goy. Interesting.
I'm no expert on the subject, but I thought true Christians believe in love and understanding. Yet it would appear that, with a holocaust denier as a father, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
There was that terrific scene in Godfather III where, before Michael Corleone confesses the murder of his brother, Cardinal Lamberto picks up a stone from out of the fountain and cracks it open to show that despite being submersed for centuries the inside is dry, just as the hearts of men can be surrounded by Christianity and yet remain devoid of its true meaning.
I don't say that Gibson lied about embracing Christian values, but I am quite far from being convinced.
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WBraun
climber
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People are not perfect. They make mistakes, only a liberated soul is perfect. The Saktavesa Avatar like Jeasus Christ is perfect.
So are you perfect? Always holding everyone (fallen souls) like you and me to the highest ideals eh Ron.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2006 - 02:13am PT
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Huh?
The Saktawhat?
I've screwed up plenty of times (and thats just this week) but I haven't slurred a group of people who have played a pivotal role in my earning near a billion dollars along with my own private island.
So, double standard? Well not really. I have a feeling that Meltdown Mel will be learning about peeing in the tall grass.
Still, I like that scene in Lethal Weapon umpteen where Danny Glover leans out of the window and imitates a siren.
I sort of imagine YOU doing that in the Valley Werner.
(Watch out! I've got Ouch's email address and I know how to use it! lol)
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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thanks JAK.
locker,
you have good vision.
wbraun,
we are all perfect.
we just need improvement.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Mel's meltdown? Big deal! Offensive as it may have been his words did not actually hurt anyone. Or call for anyone to be harmed. He has a right to his words. AND... none of us has the slightest idea what he might have been through in the previous 24 to 48 hours. Stress can make any one snap. SO WHAT! He will probably be dredged out into a public contrition for hurting peoples feelings and everyone will kiss and make up. But in this country right now we have prominent media talking heads calling for the outright assasination of democratically elected heads of states. Shouldn't they be held accused and accountable? Shouldn't we all be outraged?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2006 - 10:18am PT
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But they're on TV philo.
We don't pay $7.50 for them to entertain us!
Apples and oranges.
Neither mitigates the other.
But this thread wasn't supposed to be about how BADLY he screwed up or not. Its about how lame it is to say, "It wasn't me. It was the alcohol talking."
I hope most people are intelligent enough to realize that while inebriated Gibson was speaking his true opinion, not that of some alien homunculus that took over his body while he was out bar hopping.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Ron, what if alcohol just makes people more impulsive, and they make a bad choice in a heated moment?
Alcohol also brings out agression in some people. I remember seeing something scientific about this, but it seems that even people who are not truly as#@&%es can become one if they drink enough.
I just don't buy that alcohol is always truth serum and that their true character comes out when someone is really really drunk.
IF that were true, my true character would be that member of the 7 dwarves, Sleepy. OR maybe in the rare cases of excessive consumption, that less well known 8th dwarf that they kept locked in the closet, Pukey.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2006 - 10:43am PT
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How do you know they're not truly a$$holes that are just usually careful to hide it.?
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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That's possible, and no doubt it happens. I just don't think it is always the case.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Ron, Do you get any flak from Mormon's in Utah? I haven't , personally seen much anti jewish bias amog mormons but my petrception aren't always 100% accurate.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Once while under the influence, I went on a major diatribe about how STUPID the show Knight Rider is. I mean, I went on and on and on. I vaguely recall doing this (I was really hammered), but others confirmed I'd done so with great gusto. The weirdest thing is that I have zero recollection of ever having actually seen this show in my life.
Does this mean my true inner self is one of a tv critic?
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TYeary
Mountain climber
Baldwin Park, Calif.
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Perhaps mister "Blackheart" made a mistake. Maybe it WAS the alcohol talking. Maybe not. It very hard , sometimes, to see what is truly in a persons Heart. Again, maybe, we really wouldn't want to know.
One thing is for sure, you never have to put money in his pocket again, if you feel that way.
This whole affair saddens me and reminds me how much I'd rather be climbing!
Tony
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2006 - 11:45am PT
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This is strange. I once saw Crimpie in a cameo appearance ON the show Knight Rider. She had this bird that "disrespected" the car.
As for Mormons and Jews.
The LDS Church ostensibly holds Jews in high regard, but there have been issues.
One of the most noted stories was the now discontinued practice of baptizing deceased holocaust victims into the church.
When I first came here blacks weren't even permitted into the Mormon priesthood. Its nice to see that they've entered the 20th century, if a tad late.
Only this year at Conference the head Mormon cautioned followers against the practice of discrimination, so I don't think it would have seen mention were it not a persistent sore spot.
In my own experience here in Utah virtually every racial slur and antisemitic display I've been exposed to (and there have been many) has been made by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints.
Pretty phucking sad.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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i've had too much german beer lately to address this topic with any clarity.
and as dirt daddy well knows, i routinely run laps on these threads, so now his marinol has loosened him up and he thinks i might benefit from nailing some righteous 5.6 while sippin' a tall one.
ok dirt, that's compelling.
now, alcohol loosens inhibitions, which often pulls the lid off whatever's in there, be it smarmy smoozy, aggression or whatever. such is an aspect of the unpredictable nature of the booze hound, or itinerant sloppy rookie drunk alike.
i'm going to my poor man's bouldering pasture and i will not let any notions of knight rider enter my head. nope, gunna shuv that out. block it out. darn crimpster, you are a truble maker.
tarbuster out.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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Tarbuster, I'd sing the Knight Rider theme song here to create an ear worm (I'm a devil aren't I?). However, lucky for all, I have no idea what it sounds like. Maybe after some whiskey it'll come to me....
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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When school is in I hear the word Nigger everyday.
Juan
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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What is a Ear Worm?
Juan
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
St. Louis
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When a song gets stuck in your head - some refer to that as an ear worm. They are generally quite difficult to kill, but can be easily replaced by other more hideous ear worms.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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must.
get.
out.
sumwhere there is a file photo of kirk and spock covering their ears in hopes of blocking out some hideous alien noise...
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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What exactly is a racist?
Do racial stereotypes exist?
The answer is yes. Are they accurate, in many cases yes.
Take Jews for example, they are hard working decent people. They take care of the their families and are a real asset to civilization. The excel in Science, Medicine and other fields.
On the other hand take ___.
Juan
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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climbers:
chatty hypersocial misfits who sumtimes go outside fer big thrills.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2006 - 01:35pm PT
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Take your hypersocial and stick it in a crack.
Oops. That wasn't me. It was the alcohol talking.
lol
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Mimi
Trad climber
Seattle
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And then drink heavily, or not.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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YOu want drug talk? I'll give you drug talk!
Just wait til next week, about Monday or Tuesday night, LOL!
Nah, sad thing is, I'm about the same, sober, stoned or drunk, only a little niced when under some influence. Except, There's somethign about REAL drugs. I get a LOT of girl's phone numbers in the recovery room, LOL. That's the truth! I must be REALLY nice deep down.
I'd sure like to know what I say in recovery though, cause it must be the right thing. Maybe I just need a shitload of demerol and valium to appeal to women?
Is THAT your secret, Tar-baby????
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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no secrits dirt dadeo rodeo,
'just like the company of gurls, wymin, ladies, cowgirls, felines, cragdarlins,
and my super hoppin' wife and it's a gen-u-wine interest.
homage to lisa and wedding day:
end of shameless male ego plug the thread drifteo.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 11:56am PT
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I thought this thread had died, but I'd like to thank JIMB for getting us back on topic.
Some interesting details there.
I've always thought that Jodie Foster seemed pretty darn perceptive and bright, and having personal contact with Gibson gives her a leg up on us "experts" in the peanut gallery.
What's more I think the point about collared drunks going through the anger phase and lashing out at any obvious characteristic may have some validity.
So now I'm kinda screwed.
I always say that people who straddle fences for too long tend to lose their balls, but at least on this dust-up the jury might still be out.
Anyway, JIMB, we've always been willing to welcome others. Just ask Sammy Davis Jr.
Circumcision optional.(Yeeeouch!)
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scuffy b
climber
The town that Nature forgot to hate
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Ron, I like your phrase about alcohol merely lubricating the jaw.
There are plenty of closet racists in the world. Maybe it's true
that we all are racist, I can't say.
How well we deal with our own flaws is a major component of our
worth or decency as people.
The following is not meant to depict Gibson--I don't know enough.
If a man can only be seen to be anti-Semitic under the influence
of large doses of alcohol, and during the rest of his life he is
considered to be decent and fair, can we not be impressed by the
effort he makes to hide or compensate for his flaws?
Can we judge a man by his acts?
Thanks, Steve m
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 03:20pm PT
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Scuffy,
there's a difference between hiding it and dealing with it well.
Jennie,
I strongly doubt that anti-semitic rhetoric has been heard much from the pulpit, but this is the first time I've heard of practitioners cautioned against it.
Xenophobia is natural, but again, its HOW WE DEAL WITH IT that matters.
Where I live people use the expression "jewing" somebody, with the context ranging from negative to, if anything, worse.
The thing that bugs me even more is that they do so without nervously looking around. It is blatant and unapologetic.
And mormons can't even claim it was the alcohol talking can they?
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Kartch
climber
Mutahna
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Ron you're labeling an entire religion, I know Mo's that did drink and continue to drink, some in public some in private. Saying Mo's don't drink is just a hasty generalization. Hahaha.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Right! as the joke goes, "Mormons only drink in secret" Ha-Ha
I can understand your feelings more than you think. I've lived in areas with a strong anti-mormon bias and I got a lot of flak for being one. It hurts. And when you call them to task on it, they try to minimize it or justify it. Or just say they were "funnin me".
Within the LDS church there is significant friction between Devout followers and so called "Jack Mormons". There is even a cliche "There's nothing worse than a Jack Mormon!" I wonder if the abuse you've been subjected to by Mormons might be from the wayward Jack Mormons than the true followers who try to live the faith. (?)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 04:05pm PT
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So you're saying that alcohol can talk, but its hard to hear when its in the closet?
lol (just kidding)
But a little more seriously Jennie, let's turn it around. Would I have nothing to object to if, say, the slurs were only against Orthodox Jews?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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You're right. Bigotry is always wrong. But I'm just sticking with the argument that the church itself doesn't promote anti-Semitism. But like the Catholic church not containing Hitler, fascists or the Mafia from shedding blood, the LDS faith isn't completely successful in disuading all of it's members from making anti-Semitic statements.
But then, Ron, you know it isn't just bad mormons doing it. Anti Semitism plagues our whole Western Civilization. You may get it from mormons cause you live here. But who you gonna get it from in Minnesota, Pennsylvania or Georgia?
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Richard Large
climber
sneaking up behind you...
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"But who you gonna get it from in Minnesota...", yeah I really HATE those Minnesotans.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Uh-oh. Did I offend a damned Lutheran?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 04:44pm PT
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Thanks Jennie, but I have enough to deal with here.
Certainly its ubiquitous, but my concern is that living where there is a majority of mormons tends to create this sense of "unity" which as such is more prone to xenophobia.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Ron,
If it gets out of hand you could talk to the local bishops or stake presidents. The church DOESN'T want that stuff happening. If some or several mormon people are oppressing you, let it be known to the church. You don't have to take that stuff!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 06:27pm PT
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Funny you should say that.
I've just been looking up an old acquaintance who's now on the quorum of the seventy!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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That may be the critical path to follow. Best wishes!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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d-know,
He is reputedly one of my ancestors. A number of family members have Porter as their middle name. There are at least four biographies written on the man. but there seems to be discrepancies in facts. for instance he's presented as being from 5'8" all the way up to 6'4".
I know high school coaches tend to exaggerate their players sizes but eight inches is a little over the wall.
There's some controversy as to whether he was actually a member of the Danites. Hollywood has pushed that legend but it may well be false.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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do you think he drank, and was a bigot?
or just unique in his rightousness?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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He was certainly unique and well out of the Mormon mold. Many reports say he was a drinker.He was Joseph Smiths bodyguard for some time and I have doubts Smith would have put up with much drunkeness.
His killings are probably exaggerated but it appears he may have killed several criminals on his own.
Bigotry can be an open ended word, defined by the times. I'm not aware of any racial or religious bigotry but he was very hard on opponents of the church.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 07:50pm PT
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This thing just ate my post damnit.
Try again.
Porter Rockwell was a serious customer. His size isn't much of an issue. After 1836 Sam Colt negated the size issue as big guys made easier targets.
Any of you Texas climbers check out where the Colt Navy was field tested at Enchanted Rock.
Anyway Rockwell was more than just a dry gulcher (and even THAT takes sand).
But what about the outcast Danite, Wild Bill Hickman, buried in secret somewhere in Wyoming?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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I don't know much about Hickman. I do know joseph Smith forbade Mormon men to join the Danites. Theoretically, the Danites never came to Utah with the Mormon pioneers but there are legends that say a Danite secret society existed in Utah. I don't really know but between Hollywood and the local legend makers I think that might be another exaggeration.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 07:56pm PT
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Oh and Jennie,
the Word of Wisdom wasn't until the 90s, before then mormons didn't need to drink in the closet.
Hell, Brigham Young used ephedrine dailly. (Probably shouldn't go there.)
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Ron
I believe the Word of Wisdom predated the 1890's. If you have the time, I can check. Don't know about ephedrine but I do know Coca Cola had cocaine in it during the early years. Mormons are instructed to abide by the law but many believe the government has too heavy a hand in regulating pain killing medications.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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The Word of Wisdom was given February 27, 1833 at Kirtland, Ohio. This is from section 89 of Doctrine and Covenants.
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 89
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, February 27, 1833. HC 1: 327—329. As a consequence of the early brethren using tobacco in their meetings, the Prophet was led to ponder upon the matter; consequently he inquired of the Lord concerning it. This revelation, known as the Word of Wisdom, was the result. The first three verses were originally written as an inspired introduction and description by the Prophet.
1—9, Use of wine, strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks proscribed; 10—17, Herbs, fruits, flesh, and grain are ordained for the use of man and of animals; 18—21, Obedience to gospel law, including the Word of Wisdom, brings temporal and spiritual blessings.
1 A aWord OF Wisdom, for the benefit of the council of high priests, assembled in Kirtland, and the church, and also the saints in Zion—
2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the aword of wisdom, showing forth the order and bwill of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days—
3 Given for a principle with apromise, adapted to the capacity of the bweak and the weakest of all csaints, who are or can be called saints.
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of aevils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of bconspiring men in the last days, I have cwarned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—
5 That inasmuch as any man adrinketh bwine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, apure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
7 And, again, astrong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
8 And again, tobacco is not for the abody, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome aherbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with aprudence and bthanksgiving.
12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;
13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.
14 All agrain is ordained for the use of man and of beasts, to be the staff of life, not only for man but for the beasts of the field, and the fowls of heaven, and all wild animals that run or creep on the earth;
15 And athese hath God made for the use of man only in times of famine and excess of hunger.
16 All grain is good for the afood of man; as also the bfruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground—
17 Nevertheless, wheat for man, and corn for the ox, and oats for the horse, and rye for the fowls and for swine, and for all beasts of the field, and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, ashall receive bhealth in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall afind bwisdom and great ctreasures of dknowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall arun and not be bweary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the adestroying angel shall bpass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.
The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy. < Previous Next >
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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If you want that deleted, please let me know.
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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I tend to think alcohol makes you tend to blurt out whatever is prepossesing your mind at the time. I don't think what's said is always what you "really" believe.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Here you have a guy who finances, directs and plays Jesus himself in a big budget Hollywood movie. That's not so much a Christian as a narcissist, and when the narcissism gets too big you have people thinking they "own" huge parts of LA. It's sad that the guy who started in Gallipoli and Road Warrior could so grievously lose his way.
He'll never recover from this one.
JL
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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That's probably true. I don't have much experience with alchohol but enough to think you're correct.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 09:02pm PT
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Hey Largo, I've only got a size 7 in MY mouth, what size is yours?
Didn't Jim Cavezal (sp?) play the carpenter? (I didn't see it. My Aremaic is rusty.)
Sorry Jennie. I'm not an LDS scholar but I thought they gave up alcohol in the early 1890's.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Ron
OK when you become an LDS scholar I'll check back with ye.
By the way, I'm no longer a closet drinker if any body gives a dang.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Jody,
I hope you didn't lose respect for me for giving away my ladysmith .38. It's too heavy for church and too light for bear, right?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 09:28pm PT
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I caught BOTH those shots Jody, but I figured, what with the name of the film and all, that it was for plausible deniability to appease the HCI proponents.
And seeing that guy strip the upper off that Beretta made me damn glad I never bought one.
Jennie, if it wasn't for the name I'd own one. A good compact.
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WBraun
climber
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The glock 23?
How many glocks you have?
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Ron, don't you have some nice .40's for sale???rg
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 09:36pm PT
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Combat tupperware does have its applications.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 09:43pm PT
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I got a springfield but its crap.
Hey Jody what good is a 17 if you can't have hicaps?
I've got 5 32rd mags for an 18.
Too bad I only have a 17, 17L, and 19 in 9mm.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Pardon me for inserting myself in the mayhem but what is the advantage of the Glocks?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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I've shot a SIG and Beretta. I liked the SIG but it seemed to big to carry in a purse.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 09:48pm PT
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Bob, there might be a Millenium Pro left in Mike's estate.
I've got a Kimber .40 I might let go that's excellent, but you have to be a 1911 lover.
(What a finagler, hijacking my own thread for arms trades!)
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Howcome nobody really talk about SIG. Does it have a fatal flaw?
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landcruiserbob
Trad climber
the ville, colorado
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Ron, I had to get away from the LEB thread, It was putting me over the edge.rg
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 10:12pm PT
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Three conversations at once.
Sig is a good brand, they have some good ones. Before the boom the 220 was the best out-of-the-box .45
The application for Glocks is if you're going somewhere where the ammo quality may be suspect, or the environment is very dirty.
(but that could be an alcohol induced bias.)
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Thanks guys I'll let you get back on topic.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jesus, er, I thought Mel himself played Jesus in that movie, which I never went and saw, obviously. My bad.
Howevewr I live just down the street from where Jesus, er, Mel got arrested so the jokes are sort of thick around here about Mel owning the place and so forth. No body would much give a sh#t had he not come off as so high-handed and divine in the first place.
How far they fall . . .
Maybe his next flick will be about the Prodigal Son, and this time he will star in the thing.
JL
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2006 - 10:43pm PT
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I hear somebody already owns the intellectual property on Prodigal Sun.
They must be in negotiation.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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The number of guns a man owns is a direct reflection of their small penis size. More guns smaller penis.
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WBraun
climber
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You must have a small penis then Juan since you know.
My grandfather was a gunsmith, he made guns. A bomb landed on his factory and all was kaput. There goes the lineage.
My father became a hairdresser because of this. :-)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 8, 2006 - 01:07am PT
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LOL
According to THAT graph Juan needs an electron microscope to take a whiz.
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WBraun
climber
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LOL Jody hahahahahahahaha
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Crap, for a minute there I was worried LEB had a bigger dick than me.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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You guys are really heavy into big gun talk. I'm going to have to buy a gunsmith book just so I know what concealed weapons you're talking about, here.
Yes, Mel made a big,big blunder but I'm hoping he gets contrite enough that he'll be forgiven. I've slandered people on more occasions than I'd like to admit. Maybe not Jews but there are many other targets when I'm feeling proud and bitchy. It's really more that, than the alchohol. The booze just loosens the tongue enough so it comes out.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2006 - 12:17am PT
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Probably better choices than one on smithing.
But Locker's recommendation is really quite good for a woman to carry concealed.
Kahrs are great, the best features from both Glock and the old Detonics. Made in Mass, which is not quite as anti-gun as certain democrats there might wish. My brother-in-law has a CCW there and there's nothing wrong with the Sig he carries,...until you need to reload using that stupid euro buttrelease (don't get me going, I offered to upgrade him.)
Anyway Jennie, you might want to pick up some books from the former Paladin Press like Secrets of Street Survival ISRAELI STYLE, by Eugene Sockut (if you think I'M paranoid you should see what this guy carries) or Real World Self-Defense by Jerry VanCook, which has a chapter that I think Jody entitled (Arrested for Staying Alive). haha
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2006 - 12:44am PT
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But to get back on topic I was happy to hear that Mel Gibson met with members of the jewish community today.
Well, OK, it was his lawyers.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Which brings me to the question: What do we do for lawyers in Utah?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2006 - 01:20am PT
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My lawyer's wife is jewish so he comes well recommended.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2006 - 02:02am PT
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Stole it to get back on topic.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Salt Lake
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Rokjox,
Never needed one in Utah the Saints are so considerate and law abiding. Presently I'm in Idaho and my sister has a malpractice suit. But we couldn't find a Hebrew attorney so I'm afraid the case may be lost!
Could that be considered slander by flattery, Ron?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2006 - 02:38am PT
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I always wondered why it seemed more acceptable to say "black power" than "white power".
White guilt?
I think that stereotypes either way, positive or negative, ARE prejudicial.
But if it was off limits what would we do for humor?
I guess one has to try to be perceptive and attempt to understand the intent BEHIND the rhetoric.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 18, 2006 - 07:41pm PT
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"Hey Piton Ron, can you actually physically climb anything higher than 5.6 without having to pound in a pin and hang from it?"
Uh, no. And your point is.....?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 18, 2006 - 07:42pm PT
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Oh, bollocks! I thought he said "Piton Pete"!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2006 - 09:10pm PT
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Damnit Pete!
I can climb worse than you!
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| Messages 1 - 108 of total 108 in this topic |
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