New Carabiner

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Messages 1 - 37 of total 37 in this topic
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 22, 2014 - 04:54pm PT
Here some info and a video of the new twin gate carabiner from Grivel.
http://steviehaston.blogspot.fr/2014/01/grivel-twin-gate-carabiner-revolution.html

fluffy

Trad climber
Colorado
Jan 22, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
Great idea I like it

Interested in how they hold up over time, that precision fit seems crucial to proper, safe operation
Dick Erb

climber
June Lake, CA
Jan 22, 2014 - 05:05pm PT
What an ingenious idea.
squishy

Mountain climber
Jan 22, 2014 - 05:10pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

ok that's badass...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 22, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
Interesting innovation, but it clipping it on the rope end of a draw, or through a fixed piece, while sketched out might take some practice.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 22, 2014 - 05:23pm PT
Very clever idea. I, too, wonder about its long-term durability, and I also wonder how easily I could clip it with one hand in the real world. Still, I can certainly see its increased safety vs. both a wire gate and a conventional gate.

John
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jan 22, 2014 - 05:26pm PT
Smart stuff makes me smile...I'm smiling.
miwuksurfer

Social climber
Mi-Wuk
Jan 22, 2014 - 05:55pm PT
Rock Exotica has had a "twin gate" caribiner for years. The bi-wire.

mooser

Trad climber
seattle
Jan 22, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
I could definitely see the immediate benefit in a variety of situations, but yeah...it's kind of hard to imagine being able to clip in those moments of desperation. Really ingenious design, though!
salad

Big Wall climber
Jan 22, 2014 - 06:35pm PT
i dont think i have ever made a clip that wasnt desperate
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
Jan 22, 2014 - 06:43pm PT
Pretty cool actually. The demonstration video is a classic as well.
fat-n-sassy

Social climber
San Francity, CA
Jan 22, 2014 - 07:00pm PT
what salad said
Roots

Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
Jan 22, 2014 - 07:33pm PT
^Hey I resemble that remark...now if I could just get outside to actually belay. urgh...

PS you forgot to mention my belay hat and wicked cool belay glasses : )
Texplorer

Trad climber
Sacramento
Jan 22, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
Would want a whole rack of them but could be nice to replace a locker or two. Usually not desperately clipping a locker and I like the speed of use in that category.

Also could be good for holding nuts or pins while on aid climbs. I can't tell you how many times my partners or I have had the old phantom unclipper drop a few precious offset nuts off the capitan.
WBraun

climber
Jan 22, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
These biners are good for climbers.

I know yer all scared so get these and ya won't be scared no more.

Well done video Stevie ........
MisterE

climber
Jan 22, 2014 - 08:37pm PT
A couple of things:

They didn't compare it to an auto-lock carabiner

What is the cost? Nothing here:

https://www.google.com/#q=grivel+twin+gate+carabiner&tbm=shop
Rocky IV

Social climber
Jan 22, 2014 - 08:42pm PT
I can't wait for the rock and ice review that gives it 5 stars.


Looks like it could have its uses. I might get one, but I'm young and invincible, so I mostly trust the archaic technology of screw gates and consider them good enuff.
hamie

Social climber
Thekoots
Jan 22, 2014 - 09:04pm PT
A 'must have' for those who wear Da Brimm.
briham89

Big Wall climber
san jose and south lake tahoe, ca
Jan 22, 2014 - 09:06pm PT
Man I could have use this top rope soloing today. I was using half the rope with backup knots, and it would have been really nice to not lock and unlock the locking carabiner I was using for the knots to my harness. I will buy one of these just for that.
looks easy from here

climber
Ben Lomond, CA
Jan 22, 2014 - 10:37pm PT
Well, I won't completely disregard it until I get a chance to hold it and try it personally, but at first look it seems...gimmicky.

Yeah, all the things in that video can happen, but not back-clipping and using draws will mitigate most of them a high enough percentage of the time for me to feel safe, certainly safer than the time I'd spend hanging in a tenuous position trying to fumble-f*** with the dual-gate the first few hundred times I tried to clip it. Also I don't think I've ever worried about how long it take me to close or open my screw-gate 'biner.

And +1 for how much does it cost?
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Jan 22, 2014 - 10:49pm PT
I liked the look of the Kong Ergo Wirelock more, looked like a good compromise for more security with little extra clipping hassle, but haven't picked up any. The downside is it lookes like there is no way for the Kong to open the gate while under any load, which gives me pause for wall use.

This grivel thing just looks like too much hassle for even slightly desperate clipping.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 22, 2014 - 11:12pm PT
They should replace the second gate with a corkscrew.
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Jan 22, 2014 - 11:23pm PT
Steve's fingers look stubby
TrackerTodd

Mountain climber
CA
Jan 22, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
Super cool idea, he makes it look so easy! Ica nt wait to get some and try em out.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Jan 23, 2014 - 01:58am PT
what is the weight?
H

Mountain climber
there and back again
Jan 23, 2014 - 10:57am PT
Sometimes its hard enough to hold a bent gate steady with one hand and clip the rope in. Sure if its stable like a hanger bolted to a wall. But on the end of a quickdraw? It definitely has its uses but definitely not sport climbing.
enjoimx

Trad climber
SLO
Jan 23, 2014 - 01:44pm PT
Does it integrate with the Mammut pants with a built in harness?
Rudder

Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
Jan 23, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
I love Stevie's feigned looks of consternation. Hilarious.

Me too! haha

Totally fun to see this new product!

For me, I'm mostly heliums now, at 32grams each.
Bda9426

Trad climber
Tacoma, Wa
Mar 7, 2014 - 11:50pm PT
A few thoughts:
This is a solution looking for a problem, at least more so than the alternative. It's neat to have on a quickdraw, but they're heavy and also legitimately make those more desperate clips just that much harder to make.

Regular biners won't come off the piton/ice screw/bolt like the video showed because the rock wall or ice would get in the way and not allow the biner to orient itself like that. Try it out to see for yourself.

I could see this actually causing more whippers due to its inconvenience. Picture some dude pumped out of his mind, he takes in a bunch of slack to make the clip, but just can't quite get that first upside-down gate open with shaky sweaty hands. You know that feeling. So with all that slack that you can't quite pay into the biner, you're taking a bigger fall. Yes it gets rid of the back-clipping problem, but I honestly don't like the idea of anything training people that it's alright to back-clip. These won't go mainstream and be commonplace enough to justify teaching such a bad habit. That just adds more people to the already frighteningly vast pool of uninformed and careless climbers.

That said, it would inspire more confidence when climbing above one of these biners than just a regular gate. But the margin of extra safety seems minimal. Perhaps save these draws only for the easy clips. As a locking biner, again looks awkward but might be neat to have reserved for specific applications.

Any winter glove (like for AI, WI, expedition climbing) makes it noticeably more difficult to manipulate. Dude must have practiced a thousand times before recording that promo video.

Overall thoughts:
-It's nice to have 2-3 of these among my 10 draws on a regular sport route. Still too heavy and difficult to manipulate for me to replace my wire-gates with them.

-For locking applications, these don't seem near as versatile as the standard screwgate, or even some of the other alternative lockers.

-It's a neat idea with very limited realistic applications. Probably more for the skeptics, newbies, or those climbers who need unique/interesting gear to feel good about themselves.

-This product will probably not go far due to it's impracticality for most situations.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Mar 8, 2014 - 01:22am PT
Rock Exotica has had a "twin gate" caribiner for years. The bi-wire.

But they got it "wrong." Unlike the biwire, one gate on the Grivel opens up, the other down, and this makes one-handed clipping more feasible, as Stevie demonstrates.
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 8, 2014 - 02:23am PT
But they got it "wrong." Unlike the biwire, one gate on the Grivel opens up, the other down, and this makes one-handed clipping more feasible, as Stevie demonstrates.

Have you tried it?

The RE biwire looks like you can open both gates just by putting your finger twixt them.
miwuksurfer

Social climber
Mi-Wuk
Mar 8, 2014 - 09:17am PT
But they got it "wrong." Unlike the biwire, one gate on the Grivel opens up, the other down, and this makes one-handed clipping more feasible, as Stevie demonstrates.

I haven't actually tried it yet. Seems you would just open the outer gate and slap it on the bolt, rope, etc. Might be nice replacing lockers on an anchor maybe, not replacing normal biners en-route.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Mar 8, 2014 - 10:04am PT
The gram weight of the Lambda is no surprise,..
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Mar 8, 2014 - 10:07am PT
Lorenzo, I did try the biwire when it came out and concluded it was very awkward in practice, far more awkward then the Grivel carabiner appears to be in the Haston video.

Of course, that evaluation could be the result of insufficient practice on my part, but every climber I know who actually tried out the biwire rejected it.

The Grivel appears to be better. Whether there is any real need for what is offers is another question.
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Mar 8, 2014 - 10:25am PT
I could see it having a couple uses here and there. Otherwise, NO!
Lorenzo

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 9, 2014 - 05:45am PT
Lorenzo, I did try the biwire when it came out and concluded it was very awkward in practice, far more awkward then the Grivel carabiner appears to be in the Haston video.

Haha. Well, he is clearly an amateur magician who has the whole act down with facial distractions and everything. I bet he does a good hidden card trick that looks easy, too.

I'll probably never buy either, but I submit you haven't done a proper comparison from your description.
RDB

Social climber
wa
Apr 16, 2014 - 06:31pm PT
Hadn't seen this thread. And likely would have ignored it. But had a chance to play with the dbl gate for a few minutes. Not into faff and thought these one pretty cool.

Just as easy to use as Stevie shows. No magic here. Just exceptionally elegant and simple design work.

and ya, dislike lockers but I use them on occasion. A few this last week in fact...glacier skiing and ice climbing. Rather had these new ones which is why I thought it worth mentioning.



Messages 1 - 37 of total 37 in this topic
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