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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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"discussion of this climb has become centered around whether or not it was bold or easy, and apparently it is neither. "
Hmmm... So, the route has rejected many a "bold" climber, and climbers having done the "hardest" routes around - then and now, never been repeated, took (in my mind) incredible boldness to put up in the first place (the climbing, not dealing with the punks harrassing them), logged probably more air time on the FA than any other route on the Big stone, etc., etc., etc.... ANd yet it's not bold?
Explain, please...
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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oops, i misspoke/mistyped, said exactly the opposite of what i meant to say (see context above). now been corrected, typing on ST w/ one eye and working w/ the other!
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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DMT,
I'm usually with you on just about everything, but I think your analogy doesn't hold up here. I never said they should let it go when they were after the truth about whether the route was put up in good style or just what antics were perpetrated against them. I was all for that, and by that standard I would have been all for Bonatti's attempts to get the real story out (I say "would" because I was in the pre-fetal stage for most of it). What I'm doing here is analogous to telling Bonatti that now that Lacedelli has come forward with the truth, it's not worth clamoring for Compagnoni to show equal contrition (heck, I don't even know if Compagnoni is still alive).
Also, I feel like the situations are a little different. I haven't read all the relevant books, but my understanding is that Bonatti's life was endangered by the other two's actions. Although what was done to the WoS boys was pretty bad, I don't think they were put in mortal danger by any of the BS that went down.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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"make no mistake, THAT is what you will be choosing"
You guys take this WAY too seriously! Way more than the climbing world at large.
You could have avoided a lot of this through comunication in the first place, in'82. You could do that now, by not being so shrill.
People were bad to you. It has happened to every one of us in one aspect of life or another.
I was there, (no chopping no shitting on my part), I did Aquarius during your tenure, your approach looked weird, but what the hell? After that, by the time we came down from the Nose you were on the ground, also. One of you was parked next to our rig, we laughed together you played 'Rainbow'.
"Those guys aren't so bad, no matter what they say," I thought.
If your climb was as big a deal as you need for us to believe, and evidence is building in your favor, it WILL come out -more people will have first hand things to say.
You guys have had a lot of interesting and informative things to say in these threads and I will be so bold as to speak for a lot of us and say, thanks!
This last bit, however comes across as whining, which as I think you know, has caused (on both sides) a lot of this controversy bullsh#t.
An artist doesn't explain her work. Are you artists?
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nvrws
climber
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Rich, I would like to go on record as saying you are an awesome rant/rave(r). The unfortunate thing is that we all can't see the glee in your eye and the ever so subtle grin at the ends of such rants. I do recall more laughter than tears or nashing of the teeth after such displays. Keep it up the subtlety is not lost.
tim
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Craig Shaw
Mountain climber
so portland maine
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OK, meet in El Cap Meadow and face off…………….A few words from an old fart, who was there.
First of all I want to thank you guys of reminding me how it felt to hike up to the base of West Butt, during the summer of 82. Three of us were getting ready to do the West Butt during this time. We hiked past this “history” for 10 days. OH by the way thanks for all the dropped gear! Even though it was mostly bolts and hangers.
I just don’t get it. 25 years later and all this Sh_t.
This is what I do remember, when we started to fix the first five pitches of the West Butt. (We took three days to fix since we were the D.O.C.C.) We saw a team was a few pitches up on this fu_ken apron. We didn’t understand why only 300 to 500 feet off the ground, why they didn’t fix, and spend down time on the ground??
Then we found out, they hadn’t done any climbing in the valley before and they decided to do this first ascent, and I didn’t feel that they respected the valley, the cap or anyone who has put their time in. At the time I had only been climbing for two years. But, I had great respect for who had come before and the stone. I feel they didn’t.
As their 38 days went on, mostly on this apron. They were afraid to come down. And I don’t blame them. If I was to rape this stone, I should be scared.
I could go on and on this afternoon,. But, I my time is better spent climbing. C-YA
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Ah, yes. Your reconciliation story was touching--I was moved to tears. I'm also really impressed that you both had the ability to just get over it and move on. The whole thing... it's... just... sniff... wonderful.
But would you have acknowledged your handiwork if you had instead cut the legs off of his desk, sabotaged his chair and computer, sent him repeated threatening emails that his car was about to be blown up, had some thugs come to corner him in the hallway, and THEN deposited and smeared your "grandiose handiwork" throughout a folder of his important documents? The look on his face after hearing THAT confession would be priceless indeed! I would like to be there to see that look. :-)
Don’t know, I’ll have to give that one a try!
Despite what is obviously a touchy subject for you, you seem to have maintained bit of a sense of humor; good for you. The whole thing’s pretty interesting from an outside perspective. I hope you find what you’re looking for. I hope we all do.
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Richard, a quick question (again poised by a complete outsider) I read a bit (although not all of) the Intfada thread and it seemed as though you were again defending your actions from (to use one of Pete’s favorites) Distracters.
What’s the deal? Is this just shite boiling over from the original WoS controversy or does this kind of shite just seem to follow you around.
(Apologies in advance if I’m missing something here)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Thanks, NS. We'll all just keep looking, I guess. I DID think your story was hilarious.
Mmmm... trying, trying to just ignore the retro-spew from Craig Shaw... no... just... can't... control it.... (people fleeing in terror, mothers gathering up their small children)... uhhh... gotta post... noooo! (Time passes as the mad ranter suffers paroxysms, then, slowly, a look of peace settles upon him.)
Ahhhh... got it now! Yes! Control has been achieved! Whew! I'm all better now.
Landgolier, aren't you proud of me? I got past that one!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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No, NS, the Intifada story has never been one that I've felt we were subject to any real criticism. Actually, there are many posts (and many more private emails) telling us that they're glad we did the route and downgraded it.
My "responses" on the Intifada thread were in reference to a totally different forum (that is referenced early in the Intifada thread) in which this ONE guy, Ben Folsom, accuses us of a bunch of bogus tactics on the route. I don't think anybody really takes it seriously at this point, buuttt, in the past my silence has been taken as tacit agreement. So, I just set the record straight for anybody who might put any stock in Folsom's "account" of what he (somehow) thinks happened.
As far as controversy following us around, well, I guess there's some truth there, but, from a sociological viewpoint, you can certainly generate no end of theories about it. My own theory about the Intifada "controversy" (if there really ever was one) is that a VERY few people just thought: "Mad Bolter... ugg... drilled angles... ugg... baaaaddd Mad Bolter!"
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WBraun
climber
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I would never tell you who the shitters are on a public forum.
You're out of your fricken mind Dude!
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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"OH by the way thanks for all the dropped gear!"
Craig Shaw, so you're the guy who pilfered through the bag we jettisoned and snaked my ledge fly and rain gear, or do I misunderstand your statement?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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since when was spending a long time on a big wall a crime???
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Craig -- Well, I *suppose* we could carry on this mentality by saying something along the lines of "being your first wall route, "only" climbing West Butt and only having been climbing for two years" that we can pretty much dismiss your staement all together, as you hadn't paid any dues yet, on or off The Captain, or in the ditch and therefore couldn't have any clue as to what you were talking about...
Somehow, I thought this thread was about suppressing such idiotic thinking though.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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hi again, just checking back in-
at 5:02pm, i really was asking a serious question.
could anyone who was already on the scene back then comment?
thanks in advance.
i guess i could take craig's post as some sort of answer, but it's not exactly even tempered in tone, and i have never heard of him before.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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check it out -- i went bouldering today and f.a'd a killer new slab. i got SWOULE on that sukker. i took a big dump off the top, smearing the crimps with feces, then punched out a couple of belligerent "locals" who asked me what i thought the vee-grade was. i'm gonna name it "wings of steel", after my crome-moly tendons and insane crimp strength.
werd, peas out.
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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i took a big dump off the top, smearing the crimps with feces, then punched out a couple of belligerent "locals" who asked me what i thought the vee-grade was.
Ha ha ha - Holy Shite!!!!!
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Oh shite, I'm still laughing!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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I feel like I'm being baited, Werner, but I'll rise to it: "I would never tell you who the shitters are on a public forum. You're out of your fricken mind Dude!"
Your post doesn't imply that you are now admitting to know, but, assuming you do, send me or Mark a private email.
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WBraun
climber
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You are a fool number one.
I've always said I know 2 of them. You don't listen very well.
I'm not sending you a private email either. It's for you to find out. It's your witch hunt!
I told you guys repeatedly I was never part of any of this idiotic Wings of Steel senerio either back then nor now. Even back then I had no clue what was going on except for second hand info that was filtering around by various individuals. They told me! I didn't give a rats ass if you climbed it or didn't.
I was doing my own thing, do you get it? I doubt it. You are a twisted soul.
You need help, and money can't buy it!
Now go do your thing whatever that is ...........
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