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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 7, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
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Sorry for the rant, but I noticed Metolius cams are complete garbage. Aside from their offsets cams they are garbage. At least ones that I have. This weekend I lost my 2nd (!) green mastercam (#6). Why? Not because it walked and got stuck, not because someone dropped it, not because I took a fall and got it fixed. All I had to do is press the trigger to take it out and both of the cables snapped!!! What the hell? How does it happen? I wasn't even yanking it and it wasn't a tough placement to get out (I placed it on lead and was cleaning on rappell). Snapped at first contact. Tried to get it out but it got further stuck. It is on Sherrie's crack if anyone wants to see.
I also have a yellow metolious Master cam and yellow (#2) metolious TCU. BOTH of them had a problem where lobes on one side were stuck and not functioning at all. After soaking both in lubricant for a night one resumed working. The other is still shut.
I don't think there are many stories like my first, but do other people out there notice that they tend to lose their mastercams quicker vs BDs?
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TREED
Trad climber
Gunks
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Dibbs!
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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very interesting Vitaliy. I have recently fattened out my rack to full BD cams and was thinking of going with Metolius next. In fact, I also happened to nearly fix a big one (sage BD) in a too-small placement the other day. I jacked those cables HARD and fought the thing out. No problemo for the cables or other parts of the cam. I have also worked pretty hard on many or most of my other BDs with zero trigger cable problems, or breakage more generally.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2014 - 08:13pm PT
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Cables shouldn't break. I think it is a freak accident. But I have too many metolious cams that have problems. This last one was just ridiculous.
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Sheets
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Good to know, I've been debating master cams vs aliens for awhile now.
Crap, hope someone get's V.'s cam out. I (or my partner) fixed three cams on three popular climbs in the Valley & always feel bad about leaving garbage on routes.
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Matt's
climber
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"I wasn't even yanking it"
yeah, i'm sure vitaly
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Johannsolo
climber
Soul Cal
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I have many small METOLIUS cams on my rack and love them. Grey, Purple, Blue, Yellow, Orange and Red. Never had a cable break and no other problems. Probably got them over 10 years ago. Maybe they have changed but the old ones were the bomb.
I see your problem, you got the cheap Chinese knockoffs spelled METOLIOUS.
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WBraun
climber
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Stupid cams
Why even both placing them,
just run it out ......
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whitemeat
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
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wow, that sucks man... I LOVE me metolious cams though... the only ones I dont like are the TCUs and the black and green master cams... the other small master cams are golden though!!!
switch to totem cams bro... they are THE BEST for aid/free/gym hehe :)
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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I just got a bunch of Mastercams and really like them. Too bad you are having some troubles with yours, but the dudes at Metolius are top notch and most likley will take good care of you if there is a problem.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"I think it is a freak accident. "
Yeah, that pretty much sums up my impression, too. I've always found Metolius to be pretty damn good gear...certainly better than BD sh#t.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Metolius cams indeed do suck to a certain degree. Besides the small expansion range and ridiculously hard aluminum that doesn't bight into sh#t. I too and many others I know have had various problems from lobes sticking due to the extremely tight tolerances between lobes, tendency to want to get stuck in every irregular placement or walk it's way back at even the slightest movement and the cheap ass way homo string (read "lace") the new mastercams have, which is hard to impossible to replace. Other than all that... they get the job done.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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That's funny. I replace trigger cables all the time on BDs, Aliens, and sometimes even my old HB Quadcams - and I never replace trigger cables on my Metolius cams (mostly TCUs). Must have been a bad batch or something.
That upper crack on Sherrie's Crack used to have a green Metolius stuck there for years & years. Think it's just the wrong size crack for getting that cam stuck, sort of like the top of Moby Dick center and old #4 Camalots.
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bigbird
climber
WA
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Vitaliy have you talked to Metolious customer service? They are generally big on safety, at the very least you can make them aware of the issue you experienced.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Over the years I've had far more problems with wires on BD cams than on Metolius, but most of mine are at least several years old, so I don't know what the quality is like on either manufacturer's newer cams.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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enter "BD", "China", "C4s", "Peter Metcalf", and "Sabretooth crampons" in …
three,
two,
one,
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Maybe you shouldn't use them to scrub the terminals on your car battery.
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NA_Kid
Big Wall climber
The Bear State
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Cool story bro, but I'm pretty sure I've had trigger wires on many brands of cams break. I like my purple and orange master cams. Metolius cams and all their other gear is NOT s#!t
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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black mastercam is my favorite.
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WanderlustMD
Trad climber
New England
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My TCUs have gone years without trigger breakage (or any real fraying, for that matter).
Sounds like you may have had some bad luck. Metolius makes good stuff as far as I have seen and I'm sure they will take care of you.
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Lanthade
climber
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned it yet, but the trigger "wires" on master cams are Kevlar, not metal. In theory more susceptible to damage and then failure. Haven't had any problems with mine though...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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The nice thing about the standard (metal) trigger cables on Friends, Camalots, TCUs, etc. is that they usually visibly fray before breaking.
So you get a chance to replace them.
Vs. the kevlar string on mastercams.
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pell
Trad climber
Sunnyvale
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Just do not use Metolius single stem cams in sizes bigger then orange. Small (purple to blue) are good, yellow and orange are OK, red and bigger suck.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2014 - 12:38am PT
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Vitaliy have you talked to Metolious customer service? They are generally big on safety, at the very least you can make them aware of the issue you experienced.
What am I gonna tell them? "Hi, I placed your cam in a perfect spot and when it was time to take it out the kevlar cable snapped as soon as I applied light pressure to the trigger."
I am sure their response would be something like "ummm do you want a cookie? got your cam stuck huh?"
When I tried to retract the lobes with my hand on one side and move it out I basically just pushed it in downwards and wasn't able to get it. So I have nothing to send them for proof.
Never had so many problems with one brand of cams.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Just another sign you should take up sport climbing V!
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Hexes are durable.
I only have a couple small master cams and they get sticky if I don't keep them really clean, kind of annoying but I like them besides that.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Its true they suck. I placed my #4 fcu in a crack at 90' wall and forgot it. noone returned it!
but i will say that i liked it enough to really want it back.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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this? from the guy who never has a camera? I call bullsh#t, Metolious rocks, you suck..how much is BD paying you?
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Alpinist63
Mountain climber
Schleck-Country
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on the very first mastercams, there was a problem with the kevlars not well fixed on the cams, so they snapped. I got mine replaced and the new ones work fine
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tarallo
Trad climber
italy
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i never had a problem with metolius
try : wired bliss( made in usa ) they are great
totem cams the best (do not follow Mnamara review.....)
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Manjusri
climber
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I've been rocking one set of Black Diamond C3/C4s and one set of Metolius mastercams as my base rack for several years now. I've had a few broken wires on the black diamonds but no problems with the kevlar on the mastercams, even though I tend to reach for the metolius first.
I baby my gear, keep it protected from the sun and weather when not in use which I imagine degrades the kevlar and glue quicker. The kevlar seems to handle the day to day abuse of getting crushed in the pack better than the stiff black diamond wires.
I love metolius (esp the offsets) but I still like carrying different brands for a wider array of options to fit odd placements.
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all in jim
climber
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"What am I gonna tell them? "Hi, I placed your cam in a perfect spot and when it was time to take it out the kevlar cable snapped as soon as I applied light pressure to the trigger."
I am sure their response would be something like "ummm do you want a cookie? got your cam stuck huh?"
What's the point in speculating what they might say? I speculate that they will send you a replacement. It might be worth it to take the two minutes it takes to call them to find out what they have to say.
I have Metolius tcu's that are 25 years old and still work fine.
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Grippa
Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Vitality you need to use your nut tool to walk the cam back out of the crack. Take the hooky part of the tool, and work it into the notches of each cam lobe to contract and move. This method works great with Metolius gear.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO
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Let's see: Climber takes long fall and gets caught without personal injury by a Metolius cam AND then call the cam sh#t because he can't get it out.
Some people just can't be satisfied. Subsequent posts make clear that the "wires" on all brands of cams fail at some point. Sounds to me like gratitude and appreciation for the technology that allows us to pursue this insane sport and survive falling might be in order?
Weird rant! Along the lines of "Standing in a bread line asking for toast."
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2014 - 11:14am PT
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Let's see: Climber takes long fall and gets caught without personal injury by a Metolius cam AND then call the cam sh#t because he can't get it out.
WTF are you talking about? I did not fall on this cam, ever. I pulled the trigger to take it out and momentarily the cable snapped.
this? from the guy who never has a camera? I call bullsh#t, Metolious rocks, you suck..how much is BD paying you?
I don't usually bring a camera when I am cragging. How would you know if Metolious rocks, Squishy? You don't even climb dumbass.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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The older Metolius cams are bomber construction. I have a set of 4CU's I got in maybe 2000 and they are still working fine. Never even had to replace a trigger wire yet, though they do tend to gum up easily and are more prone to rust than most brands.
However those Kevlar or whatever lace strings they use on the newer cams is total sh#t. You get about 6 months before "Snap"! Every other cam I have I usually get a few years out of the cables. If yours aren't breaking, you're not climbing enough ;)
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Hmmm. Well I can't comment on your experiences, but I have a large number of Metolious cams that I have been using for the past 20 years without a single problem. My BD Camalots on the other hand have had trigger repair, after trigger repair, after trigger repair.
Maybe contacting Metolious directly and asking them for help before bashing them on internet would be a good idea.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Just don't f*#kin' fall and you'll be aight.
Simplistic, but it's one philosophy. And pretty damn cheap, I admit. But I don't climb enough to justify commenting fyrthyr. All I really know is nuts and pins.
Real simple, V. Call them and tell them you are Vitaliy and you are not happy with their product. See how delighted they are to deal. You may be amazed. You might even come away happy.
You have the highly-prize ST Cred goin' like no one.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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DMT,
Got a couple Totems over the holidays. When we climb you can try them out if you haven't already.
Vitaly,
Go back, try and get the cam out. Check the base for the string. If it is a bad run of string, then everyone benefits from sending it back to metolius to analyze.
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Paco
Trad climber
Montana
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The only problems I've ever run into with Metolius cams are design related, and opinion based at that.
Although the new single stem cams are a bit longer, I've always thought Metolius pieces were a bit short, and since you can't pull just two of four lobes on the Metolius cams (especially the newer ones), they can get stuck if you're not careful.
They're super light, dependable cams. Not SH#T. Definitely not SH#T.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2014 - 02:16pm PT
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Vitaly,
Go back, try and get the cam out. Check the base for the string.
I tried to get it out so I can send it in, but it didn't work and it walked in and was upside down. If you want to take it out, do your best. It is on Sherrie's crack at Pat and Jack. If not, I really hope someone can bring a saw and take that garbage out. I would if I could.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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It's the Friends I'm always replacing trigger wires on. Usually one cam breaks each climbing trip. I have to keep asking myself why I still consider them my good friend.
Lots of Metolius in my arsenal but I don't think I've ever broken a trigger wire. The trigger wires are more exposed (on the outside of the stem) with Friends and they're protected a little better on the Metolius but I don't know anything of the new kevlar strings.
Trigger wires are an issue still that I think could be improved upon both for longevity and equally important, ease of replacement.
Arne
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Highlife
Trad climber
California
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Over the years I've found that all sizes (ESPECIALLY the large ones) of the TCU's have weak trigger wires, feel flimsy and less reliable, and wear out quickly. The large sizes in the master cams are fine and comparable to C4's (although like most, BD's have just become my standard in these sizes), and the smaller sizes of the master cams (yellow and below) tend to be the sh#t and what I prefer over BD C3's. But that's just me.
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vlani
Trad climber
mountain view, ca
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Vitaly, did you lubricate them recently or something? I wonder what things like WD40 would do to those glued kevlar tips.
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Chapel Hill, NC
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I like my Masters, but I agree that the trigger cords on them suck. I have had a couple of them that were fairly new where the cord sheath has separated and bunch up in the trigger. Another where the cord has broken outright. All on cams that were less than a couple years old, whereas every other broken trigger I have had has taken years.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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I had a mangled, smaller 4cu after my partner took a huge fall.
The cam stops broke. It was not operable when I sent it in to Metolius for inspection.
I sent it in with a letter explaining the situation, and that I would like the unit to be sent back for sentimental reasons, and the fact that it was my property when they were done with it.
They sent back a letter, explaining that the cam failure was due to user error (Most likely), and that they destroyed the unit.
I wrote them back multiple times and asked why my property was destroyed and not returned to me as I had requested.
They never replied.
I am not a fan of the any Metolious cams for reasons mentioned above. I do have the older generation TCU's, and they are in storage unless I need a 4th set for something.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2014 - 03:54pm PT
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Vitaly, did you lubricate them recently or something? I wonder what things like WD40 would do to those glued kevlar tips.
No. What is crazy about this situation is that this cam is almost new. It was probably a year since I got it, but it was almost never used since most people I climb with like BDs and had own BDs of that size to supplement my rack.
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climber007
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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V..
I use Metolious masters and offsets for all my small gear and have for years. I don't use any sizes larger than yellow except in the offsets for a short list of routes... like the Nose for example.... I have taken many whippers on them, aided a bunch on them, etc..., and they have been bomber.. I do also have some with the new kevlar wires, and they too have been fine..
I can't speak to placing/removing the larger (non-offset) ones... but the large offsets have been awesome (when you need em) and I / my followers have not experienced any weirdness with them..
With that said, the blue and yellow sizes can be sticky to remove in my experience, even when well placed..
The only real issues I have had has been self induced... After a pretty long fall onto a yellow on space walk, I had to give it some TLC and lube... and a few others have needed lube from sheer usage and falls..
dustin
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Vitaliy is spelled with an I, yes?
sorry for the fasttypo
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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and METOLIUS is spelled without the second O in the thread title.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2014 - 01:26pm PT
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Too bad I didn't spell it right. Would hate for people to not see it in the search engines and buy this piece of sh#t.
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msiddens
Trad climber
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Had both and while the cam lobes are more durable than the soft metal alien/totem basics, I prefer that softness and consider it a "feature". I still have a set of offset and master cams but am essentially Aliens for small cams.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Camalot triggers have given me way more grief over the years, especially the early versions. Less of a problem with C4s but still. I haven't had problems with Metolius, the older or the newer kevlar trigger wires. I haven't been that hard on the newer ones though (kids, work, what can I say?)
Rigid friends are pretty much the only thing that will take years of abuse without trigger problems.
Vitaliy's problem sounds like an unlucky fluke?
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Byran
climber
San Jose, CA
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The problem I have with Metolius Powercams and TCU's is that the trigger doesn't have anything to stop it from being pushed *forward* (the way Camalots do). When the trigger is pushed forward to the base of the lobes it puts a serious kink in the trigger wires, and over time they will fray and break. Another annoyance is that the cam lobes themselves can rotate on their axle (again Camalots don't allow for this because of the dual axle design), which sucks when you go to place one in a desperate situation only to find that it's all tweaked, or if one walks around in a crack enough it can become "inverted" and a pain to retrieve.
Luckily they do a great job with replacing the trigger wires if you mail them in.
I don't own any mastercams, but in general any flexible stem cam is going to be much harder to retrieve. I've never had to leave a cam behind, and that's probably at least in part due to me not owning any flexy stem cams.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2014 - 04:11pm PT
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if one walks around in a crack enough it can become "inverted" and a pain to retrieve.
I lost another green cam of theirs on NE Buttress of Higher for exact same reason. When I placed it. I was not in a desperate stance and remember doing a good job. When my friend said it got inverted I could not understand how. Got down, looked at it, and it really was. So I lost 2 green cams, 1 purple because it walked in and got stuck, had trouble with two yellows, now only one of them doesn't work. So about half of my metolious rack (aside from offsets) was lost for no good reason. I do like their offsets and Yellow/Orange sizes for climbing, but not a big fan overall. If that is not obvious in the OP.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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I have three sets of most sizes of Metolius cams. They are quality gear.
I've broken a couple wires over the years. This is to be expected.
Sorry you're having bad luck but, like Russ says, chances are Metolius will stand behind their product.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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I have been using MET TCU/FCU's for over 20 years and have NEVER had them fail in any fashion. Never.
Well Chief, there are a few of us who have, hence the thread.
Besides, those ultralights have the worst head on them. The cable terminations bulge out and offer the least amount of placement options.
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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So I lost 2 green cams, 1 purple because it walked in and got stuck, had trouble with two yellows, now only one of them doesn't work. So about half of my metolious rack (aside from offsets) was lost for no good reason.
F*#kin' A.
Have you lost lots of other gear too or only Metolius?
Just wondering.
I've never had to leave a cam behind for any reason.
Only have one older Metolius unit and just got an orange mastercam.
Maybe that's why.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Agreed.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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You do not want to hear the response I instantly got
Aww come one now - don't tease us Chief!
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Ham and Eggs
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt Cook Village
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Used any other brands Vitaliy?
How would you rate your placement/recovery skills?
Have you taken many lead falls that test your placements?
Whilst sounds you have climbed some great routes with great guys, have you had the chance to learn a bit about placement from some awesome aid climbers (aid seems a great way to learn the nuisances of gear placement) or following super mountain guides?
I have climbed with some pretty strong guys who rarely ever fall in the alpine environment, so there placements aren't tested much
And I have followed some of the best guides in the business who place gear for clients who fall all the time (Benegas brothers, Craig Luebben, Scrappy Synott, Marko Prezelj, Guy Cotter, Pat Littlejohn, Seb Montez). The same gear also needs to be placed so the client can clean the route efficiently with minimal risk of damage or drop - tricky tri-cams in limestone, granite and greywackle - BD, Camp, Metolius, Omega, Totem standard and off-sets in standard and awkward cracks. Those great rockecentrics stacked in tricky to reach deep cracks. Basically everything their is and when I ask what is the best gear, the unison is that everything works, but you have to look after it, consider what your partner does when they've borrowed/cleaned it and accept that apprenticeships take years.
Not inferring pilot error by default
Guess you'll have to use another brand; or invest alot of enthusiasm in becoming world-class kick-arse at placing and maintaining the gear you have - which can be a satisfying step in your dreams towards further adventures
Thanks for sharing your experience. I'll stick with the C4's and X4's that noobs like me give a thrashing, but seem to hold up well-enough
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Rudbud
Gym climber
Grover Beach, CA
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After seeing you place a #1 camalot in the most horrible spot ever a couple weeks ago, Im not sure it's all the cams fault V.
Just saying Bro. Noob shit!
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Guernica
climber
right there, right then
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Have to chime in that I've always loved Metolius gear, their cams especially, and the one issue I've had (don't remember the details as it was years ago, but I think a wire got tweaked on wartley's revenge at smith) was cheerfully and expediently dealt with by replacement with a brand new cam... so A+ for customer service too, in my experience at least.
^Now how's *that* for a run-on sentence!
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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I climb on mastercams, TCUs, BD, and a mess of others from time to time. I use and abuse the lot of em. They all work well and hold up to plenty of abuse. Occasionally things wear out. Occasionally things even break. Such is life.
Opinions will of course vary but I've whipped on too many Metolius cams to put much stock in one rant about one lost cam. Stuff happens.
edit: to get to the point
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol
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After Trango, I've found more Metolius cams stuck in cracks than any other.
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Laine
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Jan 10, 2014 - 12:16am PT
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Can anybody on the internet not lose their gear like a man? Silently, with pent up rage they'll release later on small animals? Feckin hilarious. Where do you come up with this stuff?
But seriously, I've not had problems with the master cams but I recently placed an x4 thinking it was a master (I was using a friend's rack), pretty much identical. X4s are bullet.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 01:19am PT
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Have you lost lots of other gear too or only Metolius?
Just wondering.
Never lost any other cams. As far as I can remember. I did have some whips on my gear and it held so far. Knock on wood. I promise that placements on both of these green cams were great. I don't know why the thing got inverted on NEB, and on Sherrie's the cable snapped with a light pull.
Can anybody on the internet not lose their gear like a man? Silently, with pent up rage they'll release later on small animals?
Will release the range when I look at your facebook before I go to sleep bro..
You guys are free to judge me, call me a noob, do your regular internet wanking from the couch, but the point of this thread is for me to give a review and show the middle finger to the brand that IN MY OPINION produces shitty cams in medium to larger range at the moment. In fact, even if I took that thing with a snapped cable out, it would be pointless for me to send it back to them in exchange for a new cam. I would not use that garbage. Do you think their incredible customer service can ger me a gift card to REI so I could get a cam of a different brand?
Tom, credit where credit is due...noob sh#t fo life!
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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Jan 10, 2014 - 01:32am PT
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I don't think there are many stories like my first... So your general take away might be that, this being an (apparently) not all that common occurrence, painting with this rather broad brush MIGHT be a little over the top.
Not calling you a noob. No disrespect. You're probably a cool dude. But I draw my own conclusions about whether or not to listen to reviews based on how considered I think said reviews are. I'm not picking that up from your original post.
Besides, my own experience says quite the opposite.
Cheers.
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Ham and Eggs
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt Cook Village
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Jan 10, 2014 - 01:42am PT
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How long you had your "opinion" for V?
How long you been climbing for?
How many years you worked as engineer or toolmaker?
Takes the average UIAGM/IFMGA guide 6-7 years of a lot of climbing, which draws them away from opportunities to post on the net, before they are assessed to be capable of guiding others.
If Metolius don't work for you then I can appreciate why the expense hurts.
But don't go getting the knickers-in-a-knot when others ask a little about whether there may hap be other factors at play.
Give it a couple years of learning mate. You seem on a pretty neat trajectory. You've an FA and repeated some neat routes, switching leads. Why not embrace the value in assessing how your own techniques may impact the fatigue on gear a little more?
That said though, if you got a bad batch then bummer. Just makes you an unlucky bloke - see if you can boost that karma.
Namaste
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 02:51am PT
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Why not embrace the value in assessing how your own techniques may impact the fatigue on gear a little more?
Are you saying it was my fault the kevlar cable popped on a pretty much new cam with a light press on the trigger? Do you think it was my fault two of my yellows 'stuck' together and one of them begun to work again after a night long bath in wd40? The other is still not moving. I wasn't storing them in a sand dune and wasn't washing them in acid baths.
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Ham and Eggs
Mountain climber
Aoraki/Mt Cook Village
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Jan 10, 2014 - 03:18am PT
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Either you're trolling mate, or this angst is before it's' deserved time
Nup. I'm not blaming your dear self V.
I'm asking how long you been climbing for
Who taught you how to place gear
How long you been an engineer or toolmaker for
To consider if the way the gear has been used is a factor
If you've been unlucky, to work on that karma
You don't "press" on the trigger, you pull on it. And such an angst review from such a small sample size from a guy who's been climbing for just X? years with tears is curious when he provides little discussion of how he may have contributed to fatigue.
And your attack on others is just not measured. To borrow another man's line. "I'm not a tough guy, but I've sorted a number of blokes who thought they were tough guys". Try that attitude and you may find honey poured over your tent. You'll be screaming "Who did this to ME" as you plow on your ranting search. The more useful question is an internal quest "What do I do to make people want to"
Plenty of other 5.11 climbers around with just as great ambitions, though perhaps a more engaging attitude. Pull your head in pup. Project the humility you show in some of your achievements into the relationships you are trying to have with others. Metolius ain't trying to rip you off. Nor are 'your/ me me me' dissenters. You are part of our collective community, nurture that and you will be appreciated all the more for it
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Johnny K.
climber
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Jan 10, 2014 - 09:35am PT
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WBraun:
Stupid cams
Why even both placing them,
just run it out ......
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 11:12am PT
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You don't "press" on the trigger, you pull on it.
Sorry wrong choice of a word. English is my second language.
And your attack on others is just not measured.
I do not think I attacked anyone here who has not attacked me/provided constructive feedback after reading the post. When someone pops in and says "oh how are your dumbass gonna blame the cam for getting stuck after whipping on it?!" I will not tolerate the rude f*#k and call him a moron because he did not even read the OP. Kind of like the Chief in his last post, MY PROBLEM WITH THAT CAM WAS NOT LUBING IT EVER, IT WAS THE KEVLAR CABLE POPPING WHEN I TRIED TO TAKE THE CAM OUT FROM AN EASY PLACEMENT. I used wd40 to get another two of their cams unstuck after they stopped camming in for some reason.
Ham and eggs, I have no desire to answer your questions, because to be honest I am not looking for climbing community to pour honey on my tent. I just call it as I see it, and if you are offended by what I said here, well tough life mate, go get yourself a napkin. I am not looking for anything from you. I am not looking to be liked or desired by you. If you don't like what I think than hell, we are not gonna get along, and that's fine. I have plenty of good friends in real life who I value. Here I am obviously not happy with the product, which had caused my annoyed post. I was happy to hear some other people saying they had similar issues. Like Salamanizer for example, who has been climbing for much longer than I and who climbs on a regular basis. I did not start this thread for people to call me out for being a noob and not being able to place a cam. Just sharing my experience.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jan 10, 2014 - 11:14am PT
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I have double racks of the tri and 4lobed metolius cams.
Best in the business!
Maybe you should inspect ur climbing gear before the lead climb!
I've got an emergency trigger kit that I always carry with me.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jan 10, 2014 - 11:37am PT
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Thanks for the report Vitaly. It's appreciated. Clearly the cam was at fault and failed due to a Mfg flaw. Not because of you. Not because of lube, not because of the devil or whateverelse folks are suggesting. A flaw. It's rare but it happens to others cams too, plenty of reports out there. I love the Metolius cams and that's what I bought for my kid when he needed his first cams. They were used and beat to sh#t, dirt cheap. Sent them back to Metolius and they cleaned, straightens them, sewed new slings and they looked new.
Metolius cams are superb devices that work fantastic. Doesn't mean that they can't screw one up while making it. Those freaking kevlar cables can get all clusterf*#ked on the Metolius Supercams. I had my large get clusterf*#ked right in the Epinephrine chimney at the worst time Ggggrrrr. Squeezing the trigger caused the cable to roll right next to the cam and get pinched, causing the lobes to be stuck in the open position. So angry that I had to carry an unworkable brick (they are heavy cams) through there, it took 2 hands at the belay stance to get it unclustered, then it jammed for my partner later although he got it to work in his placement. Getting a new one from REI did not alleviate my being pissed at it for failing when I needed it, and although I love those cams and the replacement hasn't done that to me...yet, won't be taking one on a long route like that ever again. Grrrr.
BTW, speaking of lube, I've had great success lately with some sweet water based lube called ID sexy or some such. Might have to try it on the cams later.
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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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Jan 10, 2014 - 11:43am PT
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I generally like Metolius and the old tricams hold up forever. Mastercams place great But Mastercans have some somewhat unforgivable durability issues.
Due to a design flaw The cam stops on purple cams routinely snapped off leaving the cam inoperable. Metolius eventually stopped milling grooves across the cam face which fixed the problem but never fessed up to the original issue.
The rubber tubing over the thumb loop cable is poor quality and will eventually break leaving you with exposed cable and a sling that can't move freely. No fix.
I got them and I use them but I wouldn't buy anymore of them.
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Jan 10, 2014 - 11:51am PT
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Wooooh, heading' to Canada for some big ass mountains and ice ..... Good luck friends with this one!
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Jan 10, 2014 - 11:55am PT
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I've had a set of Master Cams for about 4 or 5 years, and I'm still using the same TCU's that I got over 15 years ago. Great gear. Never had to leave one behind, and have never had a wire break. Sounds like an aberration in your case.
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Jan 10, 2014 - 11:59am PT
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Locker- 8 pitons and 3 TCU's is what I was told to bring
Oh... And a rack O' Nuts, but always got thos packed!
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2014 - 12:08pm PT
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Don't forget to take your Metolius cams!!!...
And some ice screws.
Couchmaster thanks for a balanced reply. Respect my opinion, have yours, exactly why I started the thread.
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Myles Moser
climber
Lone Pine, Ca
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Jan 10, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
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Thanks Locker!
To the Blitzo!!
Here Here
Vitaly... You'll work it out, give them a jingle.
Ice screws... Crap thought I forgot something
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