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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 28, 2013 - 05:38pm PT
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Just saying.
I've been dealing with vegan cooking for nigh on six months now. It sucks.
Vegetarian cooking? Awesome! So much good eating to be had that doesn't involve meat, obviously.
Vegan cooking? Super limiting. Simple vegetarian recipes are out of bounds because of something like 1 tsp of fish sauce.
My work around is to purchase dairy from local farms where I know everyone involved.
Any experience with this?
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Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
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Dec 28, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
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Dude, you're screwed!
Besides, tell your girlfriend that plants have souls too.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
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I'm a vegan (most days) from midnight until 7:00 am....except when i get up for alpine starts.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
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i hear vegan, and i always think of pointy ears and illogical thinking.
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clinker
Trad climber
California
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
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Climb at Pinnacles National Monument. Many routes will provide a nice snack of moss for you. I asked a vegan if it was edible, he replied "bring salt".
He and his wife did make a great lasagna, with the fixings.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
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I'm with her regarding factory farms and the general aspect of eating another animal when you can find nutrition elsewhere, but I draw the line when it comes to dairy and eggs. They are delicious.
That said, if I know the cow, chicken, or pig that I'm eating, and know that it lived well, I'll chow down with no worries.
It's all context I guess, I eat vegetarian nine nights out of ten, but the vegan thing just limits you in such a way that you're going to be less healthy unless you're super militant about it.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
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OH cool, your girlfriend is going to live forever? I always wondered who got to. Well good thing she's got that diet, it'll be a very healthy zillion years of boring.
Me? I'll eat steak and cheeseburgers and cake and acid and all the good things in life. F*#k pigs, if they had thumbs they'd be ruling Texas right now.
If she wants a pencil-necked hippy as a man good for her, I'd be doing deadlifts and eating farm animals whole if I were you.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
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My teeth say I'm SUPPOSED to be an omnivore.
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Erik
Trad climber
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:27pm PT
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Veganism (and vegetarianism) is just our foolish attempt at convincing ourselves that we are god-like and above nature, and that nature itself is tainted. Early Biblical writers tried convincing themselves of the same by coming up with the Garden of Eden myth, where the lion lay next to the lamb, etc, and no blood was ever spilled. 400 million years of teeth and claws argue otherwise, not to mention the archaeological record of the past 1.6 million years of hominid evolution.
Now, if someone is vegan or vegetarian because of the appalling suffering the human cancer is imposing upon industrial-farmed animals, I agree 100%.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
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One pole
just our foolish attempt at convincing ourselves that we are god-like and above nature, and that nature itself is tainted.
To the other
the appalling suffering the human cancer is imposing
All the same
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fat-n-sassy
Social climber
San Francity, CA
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
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She's not worth it.
MOVE ON.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
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hey there say, brandon...
wow, well, you will work it out... hopefully though, come to terms with enjoying whatever you choose... i know folks that have been very frustrated by not eating what they were accustomed to, and took it out on the family, :( and even friends, :O
the old saying:
the way to a man/etc? is through his stomach?
may have some bearing, etc...
at least, behavior, does come into play...
hope it all works out and god bless!
note:
say, as to this:
knowing the cow, etc, before you will eat it...
my twin buddies raise their own beef, so they DO know what they are eating...
but, you reminded me of a story that my ex boss lady told me, from her growing up in germany... it was 'knowing the supper, TOO GOOD though' just before christmas meal:
they'd keep the goose in the house, in the bathtub, out of snow/col, as they got it ready for to be the supper (through the months)... well, of course, she said--the kids got too attached to it and their folks couldn't KILL it...
thus:
they had FISH instead... (i reckon it was smoked fish, from the cellar??)
she told the story in such a matter of fact way, but it still
makes one smile, to think on all this...
(well, i once raised a goat in the laundry room, 'til we got a fence fixed) :O
say, donini:
I'm a vegan (most days) from midnight until 7:00 am....except when i get up for alpine starts
:)
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
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YER GUNNA DIE.. I told the animal....
IM GUNNA EAT YOU I also said.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
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Cute is always tasty....
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 28, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
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Most climbers i know, especially the young ones, are opportunivores.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
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Actually, it's the opposite.
Any good recipes?
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weezy
climber
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Dec 28, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
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oh no, i have a girl who actually cooks healthy meals for me! FML!!!!1
c;mon mate.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
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I cook. I'm good at it.
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weezy
climber
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Dec 28, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
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supplement with the occasional kielbasa
;)
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
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What? You think I'm trolling?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 28, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
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I've never met Vegan..AFAIK
Maybe this is just a joke..
Not sure..I'm starting to think it's not real..It really doesn't make any sense, I've been taken in by smarter jokes than this "VEGAN" thing.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
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Nice Tami. :)
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Dec 28, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
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Are there any vegan cooking classes in your area? It would be a "fun" couples activity (it would be my idea of fun, but maybe not yours) and it would surely provide ideas to ramp up the meals via different ingredients and techniques.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा
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Dec 28, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
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Welcome back to the real world Brandon. I hope it works out with the lady friend and maybe you can feed some sense into her.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 28, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
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If it's an ism drown it in jism.
feed some sense into her...like sushi grade salmon, center cut lamb chops, James Beard roast chicken, Penn Cove Select Oysters......
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aguacaliente
climber
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Dec 29, 2013 - 12:55am PT
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Strictly speaking, even a strict vegetarian wouldn't want to eat fish sauce (referring back to page 1) so that's not solely a vegan issue. It's the no eggs, butter, cheese that becomes limiting sometimes.
There is a lot of good Mediterranean food that is vegan. It's not like it's trying to be some sort of contrived vegan glop, it's just good food that happens not to have dairy. Expect to use a lot of olive oil. Nut and seed pastes like tahini make up for a lot of the fatty goodness you miss from dairy. Try this one: Butternut squash, red onions and tahini: http://www.nytimes.com/recipes/1015421/roasted-butternut-squash-and-red-onions.html I thought it was really good.
I don't eat vegan and think it is kind of a fetish, but often want to feed friends who are vegetarian or vegan. It's not really that hard if you know how to cook in a mediterranean cuisine. What sucks is trying to bake vegan (especially dessert - bread is fine). Baking without butter, milk, or eggs is like saying you do boulder eliminates with a clothespin on your nose, it's a contrived difficulty.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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Dec 29, 2013 - 01:00am PT
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OT post of the year?
Me? I'll eat steak and cheeseburgers and cake and acid and all the good things in life. F*#k pigs, if they had thumbs they'd be ruling Texas right now.
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Q- Ball
Mountain climber
where the wind always blows
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Dec 29, 2013 - 01:05am PT
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I admit I am from Tennessee, but how do you pass up a fresh road kill deer? I stop and say "you are edible" as I load it up.
edit: two days ago I picked up three does but i don't have anymore freezer space. I gave them to some needy locals and they were extremely happy!
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Dec 29, 2013 - 01:10am PT
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F*#k pigs, if they had thumbs they'd be ruling Texas right now.
I think pigs with thumbs have been ruling Texas for quite a while.
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thebravecowboy
Social climber
Colorado Plateau
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Dec 29, 2013 - 01:18am PT
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I think porcine bacon tastes better than neocon bacon.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 29, 2013 - 01:27am PT
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My work around is to purchase dairy from local farms where I know everyone involved.
So you are getting good raw dairy? Awesome food that..
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Dec 29, 2013 - 09:58am PT
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Brandon-, you are right in that vegan cooking is very challenging. But despite all the intelligent people here spouting off that you need lots of meat, they should all read a few studies by Caldwell Esselstyn and Colin Campbell. Unfortunately, they also say dairy is very bad as is cooking with oils (they call oil liquid fat). I'm not interested in living forever, just staying active as long as possible and for me eating right is just part of that and anybody who thinks these huge food production companies are looking out for our best interests is just fooling themselves. And the way most (there are some good small producers) meat is raised, processed, and handled in this country is abominable and I just refuse to support it. Generally, you need to go to Europe if you want well raised and handled meat. We do eat some meat here, but for the most part it was wild before it ended up on our table.
After a year of working it, I've got a few dishes that really work meaning even the hard core carnivores like them. PM me if you want to trade ... my goal is 21 good dishes and I'm along way off from that.
I will not proselytize more about this, but the stuff I spewed above is based on scientific studies. So go for it and pound on me if you want, but it would be better if you all read some of this stuff first. And not the bullsh#t about the "Mediterranean diet". There are just so many things wrong with those studies.
Let the sh#tstorm continue!!
Chris
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Dec 29, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
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If you love animals so much you're not eating them, then why are you eating all their food?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
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Tioga, (my dogs name, BTW) if you can't say anything nice then maybe just STFU.
:)
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 29, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
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If you love animals so much you're not eating them, then why are you eating all their food?
Bingo.
Obtaining food during a life on Earth will result in the death of animals, thousands of them, even if you do not eat them.
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weezy
climber
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Dec 29, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
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the best part about being a vegan/vegetarian is having people who don't give a sh#t about you as a human being all of a sudden become agitated about your diet.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
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Ron, thanks. Your words mean the world to me.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 29, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
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I really pity vegans - they really miss out on some fine cuisine...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
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Ron, check your email.
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 29, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
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So lets kill as many as we want.
Let's just not pretend that there aren't consequences to any diet, or get all self righteous.
Because hey vegans--you guys are mass killers too.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
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FWIW, I'm an omnivore. I just respect my girlfriends eating habits.
I enjoy cooking, it's a hobby. It's been a challenge learning to cook vegan, but she's flexible in her vegan diet. Dairy finds it's way into dishes if it's something we want to eat, but I try to cook vegan when possible.
Really, it's about respect for someone you care about.
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weezy
climber
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Dec 29, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
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amazingly enough, there once was this female human who cooked vegan meals for me. then she found a better looking, younger replacement and now i have to cook for myself which means i drink a lot of beer. i find that olympia pairs with ramen nicely. ymmv.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
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Is it being replaced that fuels your desire to post negative comments?
I hope not. Hopefully you're just a dick. No need to let unrequited love sully who you are as a person. People are good alone. I was for years and years. It's good for you if you have the right attitude.
Whoops, thread drift on my own thread.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Dec 29, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
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I've dated two vegans...
And I am thankful that they shared the awesomeness of brewers yeast or nutritional yeast with me. That stuff is yummy! I put it on my eggs, meat, and dairy all the time....mmmmMMMM!
I also think it's funny when they'd rather eat a heavily processed soy product that's soaked in toxic petroleum based product (which of course is burned off during processing), processed more, with more over processed additives, usually soy. I'll stick with my organic soft boiled egg, thanks.
But really my issue is ascribing to a cult attitude, and forsaking all systematic thought processes for The Way.
One of my favorite vegan moments was going to a dinner party where the two vegans I mentioned above were doing the cooking. When I told them that I couldn't eat their tomato wine based vegan lasagna due to a food allergy, they were confused...
'But it's vegan!!!!! And organic!!!!'
HAHAHA
Was almost tempted to put myself into anaphylactic shock just to freak them out and show them the view from one of the other perspectives.
I also love the way petroleum and chemical based products are vegan...ha!!! So funny to think that the acid in my car battery is more vegan than my soy sauce.
:)
Cheers
LS
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dirtbag
climber
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Dec 29, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
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It's all about limiting your impact on animals, Dirtbag. Equating the plow and harvester with the slaughterhouse is hilarious.
So getting chopped to bits by plows, displaced from habitat and slowly starving to death is more humane than a slaughterhouse?
Maybe such carnage is unintentional, or incidental, but the fuzzy little bunnies, raccoons, and foxes couldn't care less. You guys are kidding yourselves. The only way to avoid it is to stop eating entirely.
Any takers?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 29, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
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I prolly should keep my mouth shut on this topic, but I'm getting ready to eat some turkey and eggs for lunch. My only veggie MAY be an avocado...
So sick of vegetarians, and what not....F*#k off and eat. Leave me alone!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dec 29, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
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the day you actually paying the full cost of your meal they will welfare boy...
If I understood that, I might be able to comment. So I won't...
Nice edit...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
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Avocado is a fruit.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 29, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
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Meatless meal:
A Vegan can only have the chiles and the sauce. ( the sauce was damn good, though ). Eggs are eggs, cheese is cheese, and the beans, rice, and tortillas are poisoned with Lard.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
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Are the refritos vegetarian?
Like I said, I'm an omnivore. That plate looks delicious, Chaz.
Edit; you answered my question, my bad. Delicious!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 29, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
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"Are the refritos vegetarian?"
They were, until I fried them in lard! Mmmmm. I'll never buy canned beans again!
You could substitute vegetable shortening for lard, and probably be just fine.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dec 29, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
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Brandon,
Frijoles Refritos son muy facil.
All of my recipes are built around something constant, and this one's structured around two tablespoons of salt. ( the salt ratio is damn important to me, too much and the whole thing tastes like salt, too little and it won't taste like anything )
Refried Beans:
 4 cups dry Pinto Beans
2 tablespoons salt
1/2 cup vegetable shortening ( or lard )
water
Rinse the beans.
In a small or medium stock pot, dump in the rinsed beans. Fill the pot halfway with cold water. Maybe more. Too much water won't hurt anything. Just don't fill it so high it may boil over and make a mess. Cover the beans with several inches of water at least.
Cover, and bring it to a boil.
Once it boils, turn the heat way down. I set the bean pot on a iron trivet over the flame to make sure I keep the heat low enough. Simmer the beans for at least 2 1/2 hours. ( you might be able to do this in a crock pot )
After the beans have cooked for a good 2 1/2 hours, strain the liquid out them.
Save the liquid. You'll use it later.
Heat a good sized frying pan, then melt 1/2 cup of shortening. ( or lard )
( this is a big frying pan, like 15 3/4". cut the recipe in half if you think it might not fit your cookware )
Dump the strained beans into the melted shortening:
Stir-fry this for a few minutes.
After your beans have fried for a while, mash them up to your preferred texture, with a potato masher. ( I smash the beans around the outside of the pan, and leave the ones in the middle whole ), and fry them some more.
Remember that water the beans cooked in? The water you saved when you strained your cooked beans? Now's the time to add some of it back to your bean fry. Don't be afraid to add too much liquid back. It'll absorb. ( don't go overboard - you don't want soup - but it'll firm-up for sure when it cools )
Add the salt.
Simmer for as long - or as little - as you like. They're ready to eat now, or they'll wait until the rest of your meal is ready.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
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Well, thanks Chaz. I'm going to make that like tomorrow. Any spices to use, or do you keep it natural? Cumin seems like a good addition.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Dec 29, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
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Cumin seems like a good addition.
Since no one else has stepped up to the immature plate, funny choice of words.
:-)
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Dec 29, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
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Really, it's about respect for someone you care about.
Yeah.. it's really about that^^ Veganism IS quite limiting but the girl makes you happy and you seem interested by the challenge. As long as she isn't one of the annoying militant preachy vegans it's not a deal breaker. Most people can't keep it up indefinitely so she'll likely crack at some point. It just totally sucks on road trips FYI.
I once traveled in Spain for 3 weeks with a vegan and abstained from meat for the duration of the trip out of respect for her beliefs. It was interesting... but not impossible. I was pretty happy to get back to burgers after the trip though.
I'm definitely no vegetarian, but I work for a pretty hard-core health food store. We've got a pretty good selection of cook books if you are interested.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Dec 29, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
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Damn man - you lost me at the Lard - might have been born and raised in the South but I don't do Pig - bad for the heart you know.
Charming Dawn melts chunks of Queso Blanco into the beans with maybe a spoonful of Crema for extra Vitamin D. Gotta watch the heat or the dairy will crack.
What's really neat is to take your Immersion Stick Blender and pulse some of the beans into a thick paste while leaving the rest whole. We do about 40% mushed and 60% whole. Thickens up quite nicely with this method.
Mince and then crush fresh Jalapeno and Garlic with some finely chopped Sweet Onion - cook those into the fray.
We'll even go so far as to throw a fat tablespoon (or two or three)of Cholula or Tapatio into the beans the last 5 minutes or so for that extra kick.
Eat it over the sink straight from the pot, burritos, sides, enchiladas - you can live a week on one bigazz pot of beans!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 29, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
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Veganism....sucks....tautology.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Dec 29, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
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Let's just not pretend that there aren't consequences to any diet, or get all self righteous.
That's right. It's immoral to harm animals and plants. That's why I became a Breatharian.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 29, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
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bergbryce
Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
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Dec 29, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
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I don't eat vegan but I do own Vegan Planet. that's a cookbook of healthy, excellent meals.
A friend of mine is a vegan chef and he used to cook at some high end remote lodges in Alaska. He always used to love telling fat f&ck, rich Texans the desert they can't stop talking about was VEGAN. Many didn't know what that meant. A few were into it.
I eat meat but am always trying to cut down my consumption. Look at the correlation between increased meat consumption and cancer rates if you want to know why.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 30, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
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What's really neat is to take your Immersion Stick Blender and pulse some of the beans into a thick paste while leaving the rest whole. We do about 40% mushed and 60% whole. Thickens up quite nicely with this method.
That's the sofrito, makes it all better. Same process for black beans. I'm just wrapping my head around making the sofrito without bacon or ham hock. It's different, but just as good once you get the recipe dialed in.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Northern California
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Lard is making a comeback as the mainstream pulls away from the fallacy of fat as being the thing that makes us fat and unhealthy. Not that vegans will want to know this, but here's a little plug in favor of lard:
"• Lard & schmaltz. The prime example of fats we all thought were bad for us, lard and schmaltz (rendered chicken, pork, or goose fat) may have been wrongly demonized for years. The main fat in lard—oleic acid—is a monounsaturated fat linked to decreased risk of depression, says Drew Ramsey, MD, coauthor of The Happiness Diet (Rodale, 2010). Those same monounsaturated fats, which make up 45 percent of the fat in lard, are responsible for lowering LDL levels while leaving HDL ("good") cholesterol levels alone. Lard and schmaltz also tolerate high cooking temperatures—they're often recommended for frying—and have long shelf lives." [pulled off the web, google lard]
I like this the way this thread offers cooking ideas-- I love refried beans but haven't ever made them myself. Seems like the way to go and a good Sunday evening cooking project.
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