Mt Watkins: a question of ethics

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 127 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Mr_T

Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
Jul 28, 2006 - 12:48pm PT
Patagonia:

Phone
1-800-638-6464

Address
Patagonia Mail Order
8550 White Fir St.
P.O. Box 32050
Reno, NV 89523-2050

Web form
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/contribution/patagonia.go?assetid=2782

Black Diamond:

2084 East 3900 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84124
p: 801.278.5552
f: 801.278.5544
bdmo@bdel.com

Sure, these two may not have sponsored the culprit, but they'll probably put in some work to prove it one way or another. [Edit: These Co's will do a lot more for Watkins, and less for F'ing up climbing up in Yos, than the NPS will. Push on these Co's first. I'm sure that with even a small amount of publicity, BD and Patagucci will get that route clean real fast. NPS doesn't clean routes, they institue bans and issue permits.

Also, anyone here have contact at BD or Patagonia? Perhaps you could rattle a cage or two.]
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Jul 28, 2006 - 12:55pm PT
"That is total bullsh#t. These guys should be fined and kicked out of Yosemite for the next 2 years. They are littering the wilderness - plain and simple."


werd
name some names, biatch
how many climbers have that particular sponsor?

perpetually fixed lines to pre-rehearse free cruxes of a trade route that's a few hundred yards from the road are bad enough, and seem to be more of an elitist insult to fellow climbers that an overt and blatant littering of wilderness, but leaving yer crap on watkins for seasons to change, that really bites. maybe these people really do need some federal regulation?


if it were me, i woould want to know who was responsible to compensate me for my wasted time in planning and executing the effort to get to and climb watkins- not everyone has every week of every season to get out and climb! why should any "community" be sticking up for or in any way protecting any "special" climbers who would knowingly impact another's experience like that? F'em.
BrentA

Gym climber
estes park
Jul 28, 2006 - 01:21pm PT
Hmmmmmm...how many cross-sponsored male/female duos are there on the Patgucci/BD program?

So it sounds like to me that we are talking about Dean and Steph. I'm not scared to mention the golden goats names.

To be quite frank, doesn't this seem like waaaaaaaaaaay too easy an objective for Deano to attempt in this style? Dude just hucked 3rd class laps on Seperate Reality and is being whispered about as a El Cap soloist candidate.

Fuq whoever did it. Sorry crackfiend that that trash harshed your mellow.

I'm all for a good witch hunt. With the direct pipeline to the Valley on this board we should be able to get this sorted out in short order. You KNOW for a fact there are people in the caf EVERY morning on laptops in the corner. I doubt they are checking stock prices.

Just out of curiosity...how would you know a BD prototype from a production one? My cousin engineered them. I saw the protos at our Grandpas funeral and I detected minimal change from production. That was a year and half before they hit the shelves?
Derek

climber
Jul 28, 2006 - 01:31pm PT
Name names, then let the community deal with its own.
nate

Trad climber
virginia
Jul 28, 2006 - 01:49pm PT
is that a flower bomb? I never thought i'd see the day?? and now its gone just like that nature is so amazing!
Mr_T

Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
Jul 28, 2006 - 01:49pm PT
Here are some people sponsored by thise companies:

http://www.bdel.com/scene/athletes/index.php
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/product/landing.jsp?OPTION=COLLECTIONS_LANDING_PAGE_HANDLER&catcode=SPORTS.SPORTS_WE_LOVE.ROCK_CLIMBING

[Removed names, cuz I can't do a simple search myself.]
There are probably other people who get free BD and Patagonia gear.

That's a lot of fixed lines to ditch if you're footing the bill. Add in the value of those cams, and well... unless you've got an injury/rescue happening, it's probably reasonable to guess that this person had a sponsor covering gear costs.
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Jul 28, 2006 - 02:11pm PT
hate to bring facts to the lynch mob, but everyone's favorite scapegoat isn't on the BD page you referenced.
handsome B

Gym climber
Saskatoon, Saskatchawan
Jul 28, 2006 - 02:16pm PT
Damn it Trashman, this isn't the time for "facts" and "logic" it's the time for irrational, violent action!









Now where is my torch?
BrentA

Gym climber
Las Vizzle, on the rizzle
Jul 28, 2006 - 02:21pm PT
Im not advocating any of that. In fact, I trying to say (from what I've read here) that it doesn't sound like Dean.

I also think the Valley can be a petty little sewing circle and it oughta be pretty easy to find out who's stuff this is.

It could quite easily be someone we wouldn't even think. Some guy from Alabama who trained in the gym for a year to free Watkins, left all his jive up there for his hero's return. Went back to bama and forgot all about big wall dreams...

...or a hundred scenarios in between that and Dean.

Or some valley semi-heavy prick who knows better, or a new Chongo...etc,etc,etc...
crackfiend

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2006 - 02:31pm PT
Well what makes me thing it may be a sponsored climber rather than some joe shmoe is the presence of prototype c4 cams... I would assume that a limited number of individualy would have acess to these...btw I knew they were prototypes because they saied "prototype" on the side of them....I think I will shoot an e-mail over to bd and get some input from them about this....
BrentA

Gym climber
Las Vizzle, on the rizzle
Jul 28, 2006 - 02:35pm PT
Hang em high then? Let us know how this pans out.

Just a side thought. If this does turn out to be someone high profile, how fuqin dumb do you have to be to leave gear stamped "prototype" fixed on a route. I'm sure the product design department would like to know gear that is suppossed to be field tested is instead being fixed.

How dumb, just another sad tale from the climbing world.

Cheers
BrentA

Gym climber
Las Vizzle, on the rizzle
Jul 28, 2006 - 03:03pm PT
We obviously need a duck, to see if she's a witch!

Anyway, this sucks. Sometimes climbers suck. I'd like more info before I expound my philosophical thoughts on the matter.

Hurry up with those emails...lol.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 28, 2006 - 03:20pm PT
If the climbing community cannot act responsibly in its treatment of the vertical wilderness in Yosemite National Park (YNP),

and if the climbing community requests that the National Park Service (NPS) get involved in this matter,

then the NPS will certainly step in and exercise its authority to regulate climbing activities in YNP.

The climbing community is the prime user of this vertical wilderness, it is important that our actions in that wilderness respect all of the other users. This is both true from the standpoint of not trashing the place as well as the implicit requirement that we try to help clean up after each other. Complaining to the NPS will result in action, but once that is done, the climbing community cannot guide the nature of that action.

Adherence to the regulations, and cooperation between the climbing community and the NPS has allowed a lightly regulated climbing scene in YNP. If you don't think so, look at the history BASE jumping and hang gliding. A few in that community who would not follow regulations (which were strict) essentially caused the NPS to forbid that activity.

I think that if I were to come across the same scene at reported in the Mt. Watkins TR above, I'd try to contact the people I knew or suspected of being responsible and ask them to clean up their act.

If they refused, or if they denied that they were responsible, I'd bring the act to the attention of the climbing community, without naming names. Hopefully someone in the community might be able to recognize who is reponsible and convince them to go and clean up.

If that didn't work, I'd try to organize responsible members of the community to go and clean up, like John suggested.

While it may be unfair that the mess makers weren't found out, it is a lot less desirable to have the NPS regulate our house keeping habits. It is a priviledge to be able to climb in the YNP, I'd be willing to work a bit for that. If the mess makers can't curb their habits, they will eventually be found out.
Largo

Sport climber
Venice, Ca
Jul 28, 2006 - 03:47pm PT
The main thing is not who did it or why, but the trash hanging all over a classic adventure wall. You can lynch folks later, if you're so inclined. But that trash has to go. An organized two day effort, a crack wall team and a couple three strong backs at the base and it's done. I'd almost pitch in myself, if Karl will join me.

While folks harp and complain that trash still hangs there . . .

JL
Ben Rumsen

Social climber
No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )
Jul 28, 2006 - 03:49pm PT
" While it may be unfair that the mess makers weren't found out, it is a lot less desirable to have the NPS regulate our house keeping habits. It is a priviledge to be able to climb in the YNP, I'd be willing to work a bit for that. If the mess makers can't curb their habits, they will eventually be found out " -

It is a priviledge and these arrogant clowns are going to ruin it for everyone. The NPS will find out. Hey Jesse, chime in when you read this thread. Then go kick these people's rear ends.
BrentA

Gym climber
Las Vizzle, on the rizzle
Jul 28, 2006 - 04:01pm PT
I am due, strike that, overdue for an adventure. I'd be psyched to climb Watkins. I can be in the Valley Monday night if "we" can come together to take proactive action.

I've never seen a topo for Watkins, but have a feeling I can be a solid partner, or a weak ropegun for said project. My sherpa skills are lacking as I have a bad foot, but I can carry my share off...albeit slower than your average dirtbag.

Someone else stand up to help out and Ill dish all my contact info. Cheers,
Brent
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 28, 2006 - 04:01pm PT
While my back ain't as strong as it used to be I'm ready to serve in what ever capacity to help clean up...
Matt

Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
Jul 28, 2006 - 04:29pm PT
"An organized two day effort, a crack wall team and a couple three strong backs at the base and it's done. I'd almost pitch in myself, if Karl will join me"



i will go help gather the abandoned crap and hump it out if, as largo suggested, a quick team goes up and cuts it all loose. weekend would be better for me, but i might be available mid week for a rush mission.
WBraun

climber
Jul 28, 2006 - 04:32pm PT
Why not just tell the guy who left his stuff up there to get it down?

Why should all you folks have to do all his work?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 28, 2006 - 04:34pm PT
I agree, Werner, but if they won't then it is better for us to do it then just sit on our asses complaining on SuperTopo Forum....
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