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Messages 1 - 101 of total 101 in this topic
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:45am PT
Where's the best place to go cash it in?

Scrape a few more together and buy my beachfront property in Nebraska.
j-tree

Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
Nov 8, 2013 - 11:57am PT
http://bit.ly/19KXu6d
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
I watched those things last year go up from something like $14 bucks to $145. Then they only went down to around a $hundred and stayed. Don't know what's happened now that the big black market site shut down.

But if only I had bought a zillion at $14 and turned em!
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
Holy Crap! I just looked and they're selling at $350?!!!!!!!!?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 8, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Yeah, I saw in the news yesterday that Silk Road is up and running again.


http://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Selling_bitcoins

Thanks.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 8, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
Can you say 'tulip mania'?
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Nov 8, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
Speculation silliness.

Beyond the speculation, their other primary actual use seems to be for fishy stuff, such as the previously mentioned Silk Road. Great.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 8, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
that was pretty good J tree
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 8, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
I'm still unsuccessful finding a reputable merchant where I might spend my "gift." I came across a couple dating sites that take bitcoin but I'm not really interested in them. Looks like I might have to either play online poker or cash out cheap since I'm not interested in buying from Dread Pirate Roberts either.
adatesman

climber
philadelphia, pa
Nov 8, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
If you can get to Vancouver, there is now an ATM that takes/converts them.

http://mashable.com/2013/10/30/bitcoin-atm-2/
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 25, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
Check out bitcoin exchange today...

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

$836. Wow.

http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/11/22/richard-branson-now-takes-bitcoins-for-space-travel/

http://bitcoin.stanford.edu/
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Nov 25, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
Geezus! $837! I wish I still had the 5 bit coins I once had. Oh wait, since they're virtual I guess I never had them, that's right. So I couldn't sell them now for over $4000 bucks.

Well I wouldn't buy them now but at $14 they were a nice buy.
MisterE

climber
Nov 25, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
The disconnect from the real world continues in the love of money.

Fixate well my friends, for this is the future you conceived.

Meanwhile, the non-bitcount world around you is slowly or quickly perishing due to your consumptive perspective.

This is just the next level of the world as a resource not a gift.

Carry on with the selfies and dis-associative processes. It is the legacy of this time.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 25, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
Just like Zucherburg came up with a smoother version of the Winklevoss brothers concept and left them crying at the side of the road, so it seems is about to happen again with then and Bitcoin.

It could be tomorrow, or next week, a month from now or later next year, but one morning people are going to wake up to find their Bitcoin speculation bubble burst.

paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Nov 25, 2013 - 11:15pm PT
Historically, the real money is in guns and drugs, maybe some slaves...can you use bitcoin to buy a nice 13 year old girl ?

(yes - this is 2013...wtf http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=28f_1380537487);
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 25, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
I'll post a good article later but suffice it to say: Buyer beware.
Already quite a few accounts have been hacked and the 'accounts' cleaned out.
MisterE

climber
Nov 25, 2013 - 11:17pm PT
Well played, Tom - miss you Brother.
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Nov 25, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
dude I miss you guys like nobody's business ;-) and I blew up my shoulder AGAIN dammits....but not gonna threadjack, pm me here its my new email addy...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 26, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Bitcoins: Widely known and widely misunderstood

Some people think of bitcoins as investment vehicles. Others see them as weapons against nefarious central banks. Both impressions are certainly wrong.


By Michael Hiltzik
November 24, 2013, 5:00 a.m.



Back in the 1980s, when I lived in Nairobi, foreign residents had a simple way of obtaining Kenyan shillings.


They'd write a check in, say, U.S. dollars on their U.S. bank accounts to the Indian man who owned the ice cream store down the block. He'd pay over shillings at the current black market rate. Then he'd mail the check to his brother in Toronto, who would deposit it in the merchant's name in a Canadian bank account.

Presto! The expatriates got shillings to spend locally, and the shop owner spirited his profits out of the country for conversion to a hard currency, secure for his retirement. Everyone was happy (except possibly the Kenyan government, whose tax and foreign-exchange laws were being flouted.)




I've been thinking that the ice cream man would be a perfect customer for bitcoins today.

You've probably heard of bitcoins. They're a virtual currency, meaning they exist nowhere but on a network of ledgered accounts owned by people all over the world. The system is decentralized, so it's not under the control of any government or, arguably, any single authority at all. Bitcoin values are set not by a government authority but partially through a complicated mathematical algorithm and partially by what people think they should be worth at any moment.

As a result, their value has been highly variable — over just the last month the price of a single bitcoin has been quoted by Mt. Gox, a leading exchange agent, as low as $190 and as high as $900.

Bitcoins have been much in the news lately, not entirely for reasons that delight their promoters. One was the FBI's shutdown of Silk Road, an online marketplace where sellers peddled drugs, firearms and other illicit goods and services, taking bitcoins as payment. That pointed to how the relative anonymity of bitcoin transactions is supposed to be great for criminals, who obviously appreciate being able to evade tracking by law enforcement as they move assets around the world. (Silk Road's alleged San Francisco-based mastermind, Ross Ulbricht, was denied bail last week by a federal judge in New York.)

The other event that has put bitcoins on the map was a hearing last week by the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Government Affairs. The session aimed to give federal regulators a chance to talk about how they're dealing with a medium of exchange that works outside of government coinage and the established banking system. Their testimony conferred legitimacy on the bitcoin simply by showing that the regulators are not especially inclined to outlaw it — in fact, to a certain extent they welcome it.

So bitcoins have reached that point in public awareness where their existence is becoming widely known, and widely misunderstood. Some people think of bitcoins as investment vehicles — an opportunity to get rich by getting in at the ground floor. Others think of them as weapons against nefarious central banks and their inclinations to debase currency. Both impressions are certainly wrong.

The only people who see bitcoins as opportunities to make a killing are insiders, of whom there are few, and rubes, of whom there are too many to count. A mutual fund for investing in the things has even been launched by the twins Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss, who got famous for claiming that they created the idea for Facebook and were mulcted out of their fair share of the spoils by Mark Zuckerberg. After observing that the offering's registration statement bristled with risk factors, the august Financial Times reported, "something tells us this is one Winklevoss-innovation Mark Zuckerberg won't be stealing."

As for the creation of an independent world currency outside the control of established governments, dream on — central bankers are not fools, and they're much more likely to co-opt the bitcoin system than bow to it. In fact, the co-opting process is already underway.

First, a quick history of bitcoins. They were invented in 2008 by a computer programmer or programmers using the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto. His, her or their identity is still unknown. The idea was to create a system of electronic cash operating outside the existing financial system. Bitcoins exist as entries in encrypted online accounts; you use them to pay or be paid by transferring them, or a fraction of them, from your account to your counterparty's account, with the transfer validated by computers on the network so that you can't spend more bitcoins than you own. (The validation isn't instantaneous, so even the smallest bitcoin transaction involves a 10-minute delay.)

The cleverest part of the bitcoin story is how they're created, or "mined." This is done by rewarding computer operators for solving a mathematical algorithm that grows more difficult over time, so that it becomes harder to add to the store of bitcoins — just as it's harder to add to the world reserve of gold over time. Today there are about 12 million bitcoins in circulation, worth a little over $9 billion at Friday's quoted price of $760. The mathematical algorithm dictates that there will never be more than 21 million bitcoins, the last of which is expected to be "mined" by 2140.

Although a Bitcoin Foundation informally oversees this network and its rules, there's no single governing agency — the system is based on open-source software and designed to be self-policing.

What all this means is that bitcoins are real, in the sense of being units of value that can be transferred. But despite the aspirations of some of their promoters, they're not real currency because they have no value outside the non-bitcoin world, as gold does. Nor do they have value placed on them by the fiat of a central government, as do dollars or deutsche marks.

That's why their value quoted in legitimate currencies fluctuates so widely. The originators of bitcoins may have been motivated by mistrust of central banks or fears of runaway inflation to create a pristine new international currency, but as Francois Velde, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, recently observed, "it is hard to imagine a world where the main currency is based on an extremely complex code understood by only a few ... without accountability, arbitration, or recourse."

On the other hand, their value as instruments of transfer is obvious. That's where the Kenyan ice cream man might benefit. If he had a bitcoin account and access to a computer connection, he could simply ask his customers to pay him for their Kenyan shillings by putting dollars in his account, where they would be denominated in bitcoins, then convert those into Canadian dollars and deposit those in a Toronto bank. Not even a check would have to be mailed.

That's probably how bitcoins are mostly used today — for international transfers needing to be done quickly, say by bank account holders in Greece or Spain worried that their assets, denominated in local currency, were threatened by government devaluation. If the transfers are done fast enough, bitcoins' value fluctuations don't matter.

"You just move the money in, move it across the ledger, and move it out again," says Susan Athey, an economist at Stanford. "In principle, you need to only worry about the exchange rate for 10 minutes." Athey says it's the transfer mechanism that's really revolutionary. "All these articles about how bitcoin has moved from $100 to $500 are missing the point," she says. "The point is that we have a new technology that allows any individual in the world to send value from one place to another instantly, in a way that's secure and verifiable."

That's a warning to traditional banks. "Some of their policies do seem archaic," Athey says, mentioning the inordinate delays and fees involved with moving even modest sums from your bank to your broker. "Having an alternative will put a lot of pressure on these systems to modernize."

In fact, the system doesn't have to be based on bitcoins — Ripple, a service to which Athey is a consultant, says it accomplishes the same goal without bitcoin's 10-minute delay. As the technology spreads, it will have an impact on users from big businesses to minimum-wage migrant workers remitting their pay back home, where the availability of smartphone connections may well be outpacing the availability of banking services.

It will still take time for the bugs to be worked out of the new technologies and their real virtues to become better appreciated than their superficial pizazz.

Nor is the system especially secure, as its promoters claim. At least, it's no more secure than the online systems of big banks and retailers, which are routinely hacked; one bitcoin user forum lists dozens of thefts of bitcoins from encrypted accounts.

As for bitcoins' usefulness for criminal activity, that's not going to be the making of bitcoin, or of any other virtual currency. As Jennifer Shasky Calvery, director of the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, told the Senate committee last week, "legitimate financial institutions do not go into business with the aim of laundering money on behalf of criminals." And the bitcoin community desperately wishes to be considered legitimate.

Calvery reported that the Treasury has already made bitcoin exchanges subject to the Bank Secrecy Act and other regulations. The digital currency business is still embryonic — that $9 billion in existing bitcoin value is dwarfed by the $1.2 trillion in U.S. currency circulating around the globe. As it grows, you can expect central banks, government treasuries and law enforcement agencies to find ways to keep their arms around it. (Remember the predictions that cellphones would make government wiretaps impossible? Didn't happen.)

Much of the discussion of bitcoins today focuses on whether the digital currency is doomed, or here to stay. Asking the question that way will give the wrong answer. Bitcoins themselves may or may not survive, but the technology that spawned them certainly will. Ice cream shop owners around the world can bet on it.

Michael Hiltzik's column appears Sundays and Wednesdays. Read his new blog, the Economy Hub, at latimes.com/business/hiltzik, reach him at mhiltzik@latimes.com, check out facebook.com/hiltzik and follow @hiltzikm on Twitter.


Copyright © 2013, Los Angeles Times

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

The LA Times reports that Virgin Galactic will accept bitcoins as payments
for their suborbital flights. HaHaHaHaHaHaHa!

"I'm sorry sir, you didn't read the fine print? With bitcoin payment we
only offer one-way service."
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 28, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
It's absurd! Bitcoin fever! 1.0 bitcoin is now at $1179!

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

Check out the curve for the last 30 days and the last 12 months for a sense of it.

It's fun to watch this start-up. It'll be fun to track it to see if it catches gold, then surpasses it. I'm so on the fence about this with memories of (a) the dotcom bust and (b) the success stories of, google, YT, twitter, facebook, etc..

I am now in for .1 bc.

A main question I have right now is what keeps another enterprise from starting up on the same virtual currency model? and yet, who's to say we couldn't have two or three systems running concurrently also? Regarding (virtual) values, let's recall just last week or so Annie's shotgun sold for $330K or so, lol!!

EDit

I originally had 1.0 bitcoin. I gave it to a loved one. Since then, I've become interested ever more in the phenomenon, after some research, so a few days back I bought back in - for a tenth of what I had just for fun just to see - in part to be a participant in whatever THIS is, lol!!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 28, 2013 - 09:33pm PT
There will be another enterprise that deflates Bitcoin's bubble, and probably within the next year.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Nov 28, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
You seem pretty sure of yourself, Debbie. ;)

.....

There will be another enterprise that deflates Bitcoin's bubble, and probably within the next year.

So we'll track it together then, I know I'll stay tuned, should be fun!!
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Nov 28, 2013 - 10:06pm PT
I keep a little bit of an eye on tech and entrepreneurial news. This topic has been written about - no crystal ball needed.

And who's Debbie??
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Nov 29, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
There is a sucker born every second.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 29, 2013 - 07:51pm PT
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/11/29/man-throws-away-7500-bitcoins-now-worth-7-5-million/
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Nov 29, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
Some anonymous person somewhere (the inventor of bit coin) has the key necessary to steal as much bit coin as they please. That would not make me feel too comfortable loading up on bit coin, unless I needed a bunch of machine guns and a pound of heroin.

The story about the tossed 7.5 million is hilarious.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Dec 5, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
China's afraid of bitcoin, lol!

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/business/international/china-bars-banks-from-using-bitcoin.html?hpw&rref=business&_r=0

Bitcoin, at its introduction in 2009, traded for less than $1. BoA placed the currency's maximum value at $1,300 per Bitcoin and said its maximum market capitalization would be $15 billion.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/12/05/bitcoin-china-pboc/3876727/
sempervirens

climber
Dec 6, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
but as Francois Velde, an economist at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, recently observed, "it is hard to imagine a world where the main currency is based on an extremely complex code understood by only a few ... without accountability, arbitration, or recourse."

Isn't that a description of the Federal Reserve itself?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Dec 6, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
Some say that's the way of it, lol!

The market's been extremely volatile today. Elvis leg!
Bitcoin should be back in the news tomorrow.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets

.....

unless you run all over the internet screaming “HEY EVERYBODY, I’M JOE SMITH AND THIS IS MY BITCOIN ADDRESS!” it’s basically impossible to figure out who owns an address.

Another important aspect of Bitcoin is that it was intentionally designed to be cash-like... the two biggest: cutting out the middle-man and irreversible transactions.

http://codinginmysleep.com/bitcoin-in-plain-english/

...credit card processing has invented a new method that really hurts merchants: the charge dispute.

So we should see strong robust lobbying efforts then by banks, VISA, etc.. against Bitcoin.
adatesman

climber
philadelphia, pa
Dec 6, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
A main question I have right now is what keeps another enterprise from starting up on the same virtual currency model?

Nothing, which is why there are quite a few similar cryptocurrencies. Bitcoin is by far the largest, but also the first. Time will tell how it will shake out and how bad hacking/theft becomes with no sovereign backing of the currency.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies
adatesman

climber
philadelphia, pa
Dec 6, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
By the way, HFCS- dunno if you'd be interested in the coin mining side of it, but a friend of mine mentioned that he's been mining litecoin on his gaming rig and netting ~$8 per day once electricity cost is factored in (he already had a video card suited to this sort of thing... AMD HD7970). His plan is to convert the litecoins to bitcoins since they're easier to cash out. Or something like that.... My eyes glazed over pretty quick.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Dec 7, 2013 - 06:32pm PT

I read in today's Denver Post that some guy bought a Tesla auto with
BC this week. . .
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Dec 8, 2013 - 10:38am PT
adatie, interesting list there, thanks. Just one thing that strikes me are the names. Bitcoin (like Google and Maximus, lol!) is a great name. All other things being equal a name (brand) can spell the difference.

The mining side is interesting, in the last few weeks I've become more familiar with it. Damn, I only wish I had but one more life to give to all the great things going on the world these days, you know? Hey, you seem to be paying attention to the bitcoin universe, are you participating?

For 91.4 Btc. (Imagine having acquired them bitd for 5 dollar/piece.)

http://money.cnn.com/2013/12/06/autos/tesla-bitcoin/

Curious if anyone here at the ST Crag has a wallet, if so post up, I'd like to tip you a cup of coffee (hot!) this chilly - no scratch that, this everything-frozen-stiff morning - in btc - for reading this post, ha ha.

Also watch here for a great deal coming up on surplus climbing gear. Looking forward to transacting some in digital to add my support, maybe YOU could make out like The Dread Pirate Roberts! ;)

C'mac, (you think he ever reads these OT posts?) where is your bitcoin address? I looked for it on the forum first page and site first page to donate in digital currency this morning, again to add my support to the digital currency universe. Check into it sometime when you're not climbing or flying. Happy birthday, too! :)

PS

Like this...
1K9o6Kz4QxS62TC1pzVi25n7XcP7D6Bizv
(Feel free anyone to tip me a cup of coffee this cold morn for posting such a hot pic, lol!)

http://codinginmysleep.com/bitcoin-mining-in-plain-english/

"This de-centralization aspect of Bitcoin is just as important as the encryption. Everyone has a copy of the transaction database, everyone verifies that transactions are valid and everyone holds a copy of all the rules. This means that we don’t need a bank because we’re all the bank. We’re not reliant on any company that can fail or become “too big to fail” nor any government or party that can rise or fall. As long as there is a functional internet and two or more people running a copy of the Bitcoin software, Bitcoin will still exist – it’s that hard to shut down. Since we’re all the bank, this also means that no central authority gets to decide who can transact business with whom. Remember a while back when Visa and MasterCard cut WikiLeaks’ ability to accept donations, but the KKK got to keep raking in the racism money? That can’t happen with Bitcoin."

http://codinginmysleep.com/bitcoin-in-plain-english/
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 25, 2014 - 09:37am PT
Any on you Bitcoin holders affected by the Mt Gox hack?

According to the document, the exchange is insolvent after losing 744,408 bitcoins — worth about $350 million at Monday’s trading prices.

http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/02/bitcoins-mt-gox-implodes/
http://www.scribd.com/doc/209050732/MtGox-Situation-Crisis-Strategy-Draft

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 11:36am PT
Bitcoins are the new penny stocks. Can't wait to see "Wolf of Wall Street II"
although rumour has it that it is to be called "The Bitchcoin of Wall Street".
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:03pm PT
Hate to say "I told you so", but . . . . .

yeah, the price will come back up because a man has just got to buy his heroin

weezy

climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
the best part about bitcoins is that you get to watch libertarians slowly discover why financial regulations exist to begin with

https://twitter.com/The_Pocius/status/435568115791826945
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
Keep in mind, Mt Gox was just one of several prominent exchanges.

It seems to me, Bitcoin is showing remarkable resilience as e-currency. Today's market value (eg. at bitstamp) is still up more than 10 fold over this time last year.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/bitstamp/USD
http://www.coindesk.com/price/

As you know, anytime there's something this groundbreaking it's likely to have its bugs, beta versions and disparagers.

Don't be such a gloomy gus.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
So what kind of even semi-legit 'currency' varies ten fold in a year?
What a scam.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:12pm PT
What a scam.


It's a start up, gloomy gus.

So one should go into it expecting it to have its speculative side (or commodity side) in addition to its currency side.

If you don't like the speculative side of it, then by buying and selling quickly you can avoid it.

Whether Bitcoin survives or not, the technology behind it is here to stay, it seems to me. I've been following along since learning of it, I think it's pretty cool and it has a lot of very smart people interested in the mechanics of it.

You see it as a scam, others see it as an innovation.

Here, just for you gloomy...
http://www.coindesk.com/cash-invented-seen-media-today/
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
It's a startup all right. And there will always be smart people doing shady
things. Give me one reason why a reasonable person would put their hard-earned
money into this instead of a legit investment. It is gambling at best, a
pyramid scheme more accurately. And I'm not gloomy, just a realist and a
legit investor. I love watching 'smart' people lose their asses. Americans
love the new and quick and exciting. I'll stick with making my 14% per year, on average.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
Give me one reason why a reasonable person would put their hard-earned
money into this instead of a legit investment. It is gambling at best, a
pyramid scheme more accurately.

Make up your mind, first you had bitcoin in mind as currency, now you're (back to) speaking of it as investment. Frankly, I don't think you're really clear on what bitcoin is and its usefulness. BTC's investment phase might be over. Everyone paying attention knows this. Those who invested early in the innovation made out big time if they got out, say, when China banks did. And by way of their involvement they supported the innovation, good for them. Meanwhile all manner of support technology is coming on line to advance e-currency, so we shall see. It's clear you're happy with your investment strategy so have at it, it's investor's choice. I had .1 btc for awhile in a digital wallet, I used it, as currency, to buy a balaclava (from overstock) among other things. Apart from fun and the learning experience, the transaction went through flawlessly and as far as I could tell it was win-win for all.

Look at your quote again. Don't tell me that's not the attitude of a gloomy gus or debbie downer.

Bye now.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
Bitcoin is being taken down, because someone(s) who couldn't get in on it has the power to take it down. Yes, the technology isn't dead. It will come out in another, sanctioned, form. I am betting it will be connected with American Express.

Speculation is a ruthless game and often a dirty game. People who had money in Mt Gox will never see that money again. That's going to be a shot heard round the world, for a lot of people who are riding the fence on crypto-currency.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:38pm PT
Sorry, I was mislead by your talk of speculating so I thought you were gonna
use it in lieu of a Money Market account. First World Nonsense.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:51pm PT
No...I am guessing they have a gun pointed at their head. It should be entertaining to read the official statement.
Hours later, Mt. Gox CEO Mark Karpeles told Reuters in an email: "We should have an official announcement ready soon-ish. We are currently at a turning point for the business. I can't tell much more for now as this also involves other parties." He did not give any other details.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/25/bitcoin-mtgox-idUSL3N0LU1OX20140225



edit: I've got a nephew who posts stuff on FBthat I wouldn't dare respond to, partly out of not wanting to snag some tripwire in his head, but also because I know some of the things he posts have merit. I am a chicken.

But it seems to me there's a pretty concerted campaign been going on to discredit Bitcoin this last year.

The nephew posted this blog story on his feed today, about how misinformation is used to discredit and sabotage. I am guessing that is what is going on with all these Bitcoin bumbles.
http://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Feb 25, 2014 - 03:53pm PT
Does anyone remember the dot.com meltdown? Same thing.

The infrastructure may be worth something, but any currency not backed by real assets is worthless. As Reilly indicated, it is closer to a pyramid scheme in it's current form.

And people do invest/speculate in the fluctuation of currency valuation, so they are not mutually exclusive.


happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 25, 2014 - 04:39pm PT
Currently live streamonYouTube: Andreas M. Antonopoulos

From his website,http://antonopoulos.com/:
Andreas is a passionate technologist, who is well-versed in many technical subjects.......His expertise includes Bitcoin, crypto-currencies, Information Security, Cryptography, Cloud Computing, Data Centers, Linux, Open Source and robotics software development. He also has been CISSP certified for 12 years.

As a bitcoin entrepreneur, Andreas has founded three bitcoin businesses and launched several community open-source projects. He often writes articles and blog posts on bitcoin, is a permanent host on Let’s Talk Bitcoin and prolific public speaker at technology events. Andreas is also writing a bitcoin book for developers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mWkY5yIAnc&feature=youtu.be


Right now,seems to be not Gox specific, but people may be interested in viewing at leisure,as it is supposed to have a segment on the topic.
krahmes

Social climber
Stumptown
Feb 26, 2014 - 12:00pm PT
We all ready have a virtual currency and it’s called the US Dollar, backed by the full faith and credit of we’ll fuk your sh#t up if you don’t play ball. Murica Fuk Yeah. Enjoy your dentalium shell.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 12:43pm PT
Happie, thank you for your posted link at youtube. That was very useful, insightful.

Curious if you were directed there somehow, by a news story yesterday perhaps, or just happened to come across it. Anyways, I really enjoyed that. Thanks again.

haha...
Donations and tips:
Bitcoin: 1andreas3batLhQa2FawWjeyjCqyBzypd
any coin via Cryptsy key: 93e51571e08fa93fed18ac126d4bcd4bbcfa9962

Good link here, too:
http://antonopoulos.com/

Thanks.

.....

and mine...
1K9o6Kz4QxS62TC1pzVi25n7XcP7D6Bizv

HFCS, too, accepts tips and donations. :)
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Feb 26, 2014 - 12:54pm PT
Don't like Bitcoin? Don't buy it. That's the beauty of a free market. If someone's dumb enough to invest their life savings,then tough sh#t. That's the nature of RISK. It blows up soometimes. I fail to understand the extreme backlash.
bjj

climber
beyond the sun
Feb 26, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
"The infrastructure may be worth something, but any currency not backed by real assets is worthless."

You mean like, oohhhh... THE US DOLLAR?!

A currency backed by absolutely nothing.

This thread is a perfect example of why some people literally should not be allowed to have an opinion. They read only the most tertiary of things about a subject, would never in a million years understand the core principals, theory and implications about said subject no matter how long they tried, then announce to the world their carefully considered opinion.

Which in this case is to declare the whole subject "Pyramid scheme". Oh and also to smugly interject how they're making 14% (sure you are).

Go back to watching reality TV. You understand nothing.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 26, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
Curious if you were directed there somehow, by a news story yesterday perhaps, or just happened to come across it.

I saw a Twitter post replying to the person I referenced - Andreas Antonopoulos, in my feed. It was related to the MTGox story, but I cannot recall exactly how. It appeared the man was well regarded, and so I looked at his profile to see if I wanted to follow it. In reviewing his profile, he posted about being on that YouTube Stream. Before posting about the video, I clicked through to his personal website to get further confirmation that he appeared credible, which he did. That made me feel the stream might be worth suggesting.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 02:02pm PT
dmt, go here...

http://blockchain.info/wallet/

As the page says, it takes literally seconds to acquire for yourself a "digital wallet". Do this and then come back here with your btc address that you've created. For yourself. And post it up. Here.

You see, I too have a digital wallet. I keep about $30 dollars or thereabouts in it. For all sorts of little things, so far mostly for internet tipping and minor purchases for fun. Not crazy at all when bitcoin is used in this way, for example.

Post up your public btc address (again, takes only seconds, alright, at most, a minute or two) and...

...then I'll TIP you. That's right. In seconds. Just like that. Voila. Like magic. How about that? your next coffee's on me!!!

This will show a side, one side, of its usefulness, and I think you just might be impressed. Game?

Mind you, it's not for nothing, either. Rather, it's FOR your many posts over the last year or two I've particularly enjoyed - yes, you've grown on me across that time - yes, you can believe it, lol! - and so I want to send a bit of positive reinforcement your way as encouragement to keep up your greatness at this site - which just wouldn't be the same without you. :)

... and to show a bit of the BTC ecosystem's usefulness.

Cheers,
HFCS

.....

It suddenly occurs to me... I wonder were CMac to assign a btc address to every thread on the forum if anything could ever come of that. I know I like some threads more than others and would consider tipping them commensurately. Anyhow just a thought, gotta run...

I think someday it might be standard that every internet presence, more or less, has associated with it an e-commerce digital address.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 26, 2014 - 02:43pm PT
ok i now have an empty wallet. curious about this so doing some research.

via blockchain.info 1BC is about 540USD. but I can buy BCs locally at 1BC for 650+USD. why is that?
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 02:58pm PT
Nature, cool! Hey my work just got busy. Don't do anything, certainly don't buy any bitcoin yet. I'll be back in a couple of hours. You should have a public address associated with your digital wallet. If not, learn about them, takes literally minutes. When you get one post it here and when I get back we'll test it!

.....

Nice, dmt. Okay, give me a second. This will just be a test amt. Then I gotta run. More later...

Now a minute later...

Okay, check your wallet. What do you have?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 26, 2014 - 02:59pm PT
1GWkJCZHdqyabaLFXwemg6zwHvC6EQoWSu
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 03:04pm PT
Check your wallets, boys! :)

I've got to run in two minutes, back in a few hours...


Remember, don't buy any bitcoin (at least till you understand something of the ecosystem) and you CANNOT get into any trouble. Obviously.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 26, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
0.00042948 BTC $ 0.25
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 03:09pm PT
Bingo!!

Your next coffee's on me!

For your cetacean advocacy! :)


.....

Nice, dmt.

Now check it again.

For the many fine posts of yours I've enjoyed during my time here!

Cheers!


If you can't find a handy converter, most wallets have one, I'll post up a favorite later tonight.

In the meantime check out mycelium, it's my favorite far and away for my mobile device. It shows both BTC and USD. Later...
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Feb 26, 2014 - 04:17pm PT
The concept of money has always been weird. How times have changed. Once
upon a time back in that primitive age of 2013, you could get rich if
you could crank out bitcoin hashes at peta speed.


command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Feb 26, 2014 - 06:24pm PT
Did they mention the sky high electric bill to run the miners?
Although this winter the things have a dual purpose of heating the house.


TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Feb 26, 2014 - 06:48pm PT
Trying To Sell Silver Dollars For .99 Cents Outside a Coin Dealer

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7usCHnZ-8c
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 26, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
Just get yourself a Google Wallet if you want to transfer money to people--no reason to fool around with bitcoin foolishness.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
So dmt and nature, what are the amounts in your wallets? You know, our little game of fun here doesn't count for full value till you spend it, lol!

You each should have two receives, the first to simply test your addresses, the second enough for your cuppas. :)

Next step: Check this out...

http://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mycelium.wallet&hl=en

I use this Mycelium app (wallet) on my mobile device (the other, Blockchain, off my laptop). Mycelium: Cool design. It's never failed me. Transactions are quick. Take it in to a participating bitcoin merchant (after transferring your funds from your blockchain wallet to your mycelium wallet) and spend your balance!!

.....

Nature, you pay a premium for those bitcoin for cash local sites. I wouldn't use one, they're a rip off unless, I guess, one is hard up for bitcoin for some reason or other. I've used Coinbase for a couple of months now, very happy with it. But remember, it's not a good idea to leave a lot of btc in any online account.

http://coinbase.com/

Hope this helped.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
blahblah,

so let's pretend I just posted something you really really liked - you thought it was great info, great beta, or whatever - and you wanted to show your gratitude to me, you wanted to reward me (tip me) let's say 50 cents right away. Could you do it right now with your Google Wallet? Could I get your tip in less than a minute in my wallet? If so, prove it.

My bitcoin address:
1K9o6Kz4QxS62TC1pzVi25n7XcP7D6Bizv

Is the Google Wallet this simple? Don't think so.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 26, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
You just need to post an email address (doesn't need to be Gmail)--not sure how that's any more difficult than posting your bitcoin address.

Seems like:
1. You're conflating easy money transfer (a good thing certainly) with an odd made-up currency (maybe a good thing, I don't know, but seems like Bitcoin itself as currently implemented sucks balls) and
2. You've got a bit of an attitude problem for some reason!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 26, 2014 - 09:53pm PT
blahblah,

oops, my bad. In the rush I simply forgot a couple smiley faces. Here, take two:

If so, prove it. :)

My bitcoin address:
1K9o6Kz4QxS62TC1pzVi25n7XcP7D6Bizv

Is the Google Wallet this simple? Don't think so. :)


Better (conveyance of attitude), I hope. :)

.....

You can now send btc over email with "Tip Bot" -

http://www.coindesk.com/can-now-send-bitcoins-email-tip-bot/

New services emerging in the bitcoin ecosystem pretty much everyday now, it's hard to keep up. Exciting times!
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 26, 2014 - 10:03pm PT
Bitcoin is for suckers and there's one born every minute.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 26, 2014 - 10:23pm PT
h f c s -- the smileys make a difference!
I still think there is a significant difference between easy and inexpensive financial services like transferring money between people, which is undoubtedly a good thing, and the Bitcoin currency in general. But time will tell.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 26, 2014 - 10:59pm PT
Okay -I am going on a Total Whacked Out Conspiracy Theory here....

DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU AGREE NOT TO ASK FOR THE TIME YOU TOOK TO READ BACK AFTER FINISHED READING(This really makes no sense at all, but I want to have it as point of note)



HFCS's posts to DMT made me think maybe I should actually try to understand bitcoin a little before making my proclamations as if I actually had a clue(because of course, I don't).

But I got sidetracked pretty quickly and back onto my "what dos it mean?" rail. So. I spent the last 5 minutes as such. After reading "why to use BC" on the Coindesk site, I lost interest in the currency itself and became interested in knowing more about it's...well, emotional basis, for lack of a better word.

Looked up a bit about the name used for concept developers, Satoshi Nakamoto and what that name might signify. The pages gave some ideas that parts of thename might mean:
“Satoshi” means “clear thinking, quick witted; wise”. “Naka” can mean “medium, inside, or relationship”. “Moto” can mean “origin”, or “foundation”. Those things would all apply to the person who founded a movement by designing a clever algorithm.

blah,blah, blah. I forget where I went after that. But then I thought, because it seems all these internet heros and villains like naming things with words which have inobvious cryptic connections. and I thought... "I thought the Mt Gox was "Mount Gox" like some sort authorative name, but on the YouTube stream yesterday, they pronounced it "Em Tee." At the time, I thought "Yeah, empty all right, that's ironic.")

But anyway.... I thought "I wonder what the word"Gox means" and there are two origins to the word which were interesting1, the technical use, means "gaseous oxygen" ...flatulence, perhaps? Urban Dictionary, says "To delay at the last minute"

Hmm...my mind is thinking. A thought, from the air occurs: "What about all those recently dead bankers?" "Well, I don't know!" my other part of mind replies.

Then the first part of mind says "Well, think about it." "Okay" part two says, and sort of blow part one off.

Then I see an updated statement form MT Gox owner
Dear MtGox Customers,

As there is a lot of speculation regarding Mt. Gox and its future, I would like to use this opportunity to reassure everyone that I am still in Japan, and working very hard with the support of different parties to find a solution to our recent issues.

Furthermore I would like to kindly ask that people refrain from asking questions to our staff: they have been instructed not to give any response or information. Please visit this page for further announcements and updates.

Says about nothing, really...

Oh yeah - also somewhere back in the earlier thinking about Satoshi Nakamoto was somewhere mentioned it was believed "he" was the original owner of Mt Gox. That is important to my whako theory.

Then Part One of my mind says "Well, actually what is going on is that the Gox funds have been hidden because something is about to go down. The "insider" who created the foundation (and Mt Gox) is "delaying at the last minute."


And THERE IT IS!!!! It's just as clear as the day is bright!


Remember -I warned you. No, I cannot return your time. But I bet those Gox BitCoin aren't lost.










happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 12:59pm PT
I did warn you Dingus... Have you lost faith in me now too? I don't have Bitcoin(no need, at this point, since I buy mostly food, car insurance and gas). But I can Tweet you a Starbucks coffee if you're on Twitter! I, too, enjoy your posts.

I like the tipping idea too, and think it would be a very interesting concept fora forum to experiment with.
julton

climber
Feb 27, 2014 - 01:16pm PT
Aside from tipping on internet forums what are other examples of the advantages of Bitcoin?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 01:50pm PT
People like the freedom they believe is possible with the currency, and the FU to authorities.(That's turning out to be a big joke. US has issued supoenas surrounding the Gox epic-http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/2/27/prosecutors-subpoenahighprofilebitcoinstartup.html0.

Also, the handling fees on transactions are very small in comparison to other services(PayPal,Amazon, Credit Card, Debit Card).

It's been said that a Bitcoin account cannot be frozen, which some people have had issue with PayPal doing when PP thinks you may be dancing on the fringe of ethical/legal business, or moshing it altogether.T(Another joke- since Gox obviously halted payouts and..well now look!)he Feds can,and have, confiscated funds from Bitcoin services when they have deemed them to be guilty of something illegal(after all, Dept. of Defense needs to get money for black ops SOMEWHERE, and can only pad the expenses on the books just so much...).

People thought it was more secure that other online payments, but it turns out there has been a coding flow that would allow hackers to get at transactions, known since 2011.

Bitcoin is attractive to people who fear governmental or other organizational intrusion. But it seems tome this has just been a hopeful illusion maintained.

Interestingly,what I have seen in today's posts is that the original owner of MTGox, Jed McCaleb still owns 12% of the company(though not found any verifiable source for that information) and also that he launched a new venture,and is seeking beta testers on a website called secretbitcoinproject.com. Though the site looks like something an 8-year oldput up, apparently it is genuine, and was originally reported by TechCrunch on 2/13(Keep in mind that Jed McCaleb has been the "best guess" at the identity of Bitcoin's inventor).





Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 27, 2014 - 01:58pm PT
Bitchcoins - the sound of one hand clapping.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 02:26pm PT
^ What If

The whole debacle surrounding Gox is simply a misinformation campaign intended to staunch the flow of people moving into cryptocurrency?

What WOULD happen, if cryptocurrencies overtook centralized currency exchange(Really-I don't have the kind of brain that has an interest in understanding of these things)?


That is the question.....

Can centralized governments afford for this to occur? Because I can tell you - when you've got discussion forums on Etsy on the subject and more than a token few sellers accept crypto-currency(which is the case), it tells me that the movement in on-well past what most people would currently believe possible.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 27, 2014 - 02:45pm PT
Happie, hula hoops were all the rage once too. Bitcoins pose no threat to
real currencies, they are the sound of one hand clapping, really. Now, IF
they were to stabilise in value and IF they were to prove cheaper to use
than Paypal then they would be a viable alternative. But that ain't gonna
happen because even IF they were to stabilise you can rest assured the
cost of using them will rise to equal the cost of Paypal - that's the way
markets work, well, free markets anyway and Bitcoins are obviously not a
free market.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 03:11pm PT
I think that there are a few things going on with these digital currencies, and speculation shouldn't be the focal point. That's the shell guy telling you to keep your eye on the ball.



What I think is going on right now is a tussle between the freedom fighter(crypto developers, Bitcoin in particular)and "someone else," (perhaps the International Monetary fund?). That someone wants their finger in the pie, it's as simple as that. and,they will likely get it, with Bitcoin.

What about the other digital currencies...Likely they,too,will have to pay to play.

But there will ALWAYS those who have a need to not play within the lines. Someone smart is probably working on morphing digital currency that isn't static - doesn't land in one spot long enough to be be logged. From what I have read today, it seems that the code weakness has been when a transaction occurs. So someone has got to find a way to turn that weakness into a strength.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 27, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
Happie, do some research. I won't insult you but the IMF could care less.
The value of bitcoins that WERE in circulation was about equal to the
total currency valuation of Malawi. I could be off by an African country
or two so don't quote me.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 27, 2014 - 09:13pm PT
DMT- Possibly, yes.

Reilly - I admit that I am very much a n00b in this arena. But the little bit of looking around I have been doing (just since reading your post 10 minutes ago) suggests that Bitcoin actually ought be of very much concern to the IMF. Among some of the documents I viewed, was the following, which I think bears merit.

In a paper written by one Nicholas A. Plassaras(linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/nicholas-plassaras/21/b92/82a ) titled "Regulating Digital Currencies: Bringing Bitcoin Within the Reach of the IMF" which can be read at:
http://pix.cs.olemiss.edu/csci103/bitcoinMarketplace.pdf

One finds, on page 20/26, the following:

V. HOW TO COUNTER THE BITCOIN THREAT VIA THE IMF

Finding a way to regulate Bitcoin is critical in light of its potential destabilizing effects on the foreign currency exchange. Although there
might be a number of ways to mitigate Bitcoin’s impact via domestic legislation, those solutions are beyond the scope of this Comment.
Instead, I discuss ways in which the IMF can be used to counter the threat posed by Bitcoin.

The paper goes on to suggest some options and issues which would arise, and later includes:

VI. CONCLUSION

This Comment introduced Bitcoin in conjunction with the history of the International Monetary Fund in order to demonstrate the possibility of future conflict between the two. The peer-to-peer, decentralized, and largely unregulated system that is Bitcoin contains the potential to threaten the global economic stability that the IMF was created to protect. The threat posed by Bitcoin is, for the moment, only theoretical. But as more and more people come to understand the advantages of digital money over paper money, the threat it poses becomes increasingly real. If thefuture of e-commerce entails a transition to digital currencies, it is critical that our economic,political, and legal institutions are prepared. Recognizing the importance of Bitcoin in the context of digital currencies is the first step in understanding how to best plan for the future.

The paper was published April 7, 2013
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 11:06am PT
So did you guys find an outlet for your bitcoin yet?

Nature, haven't heard back from you. You should have two receipts at your address, the first just a test and the second for your whale activism.

julton, I was going to post a response to your post w another example aspect of bitcoin's usefulness (ala what's going on in Ukraine right now, re inflation, etc.) but you could probably gather as much (and more) from here...
http://www.moneyandtech.com/feb27-news-update/

(oops, apparently video is down right now)

Regarding Ukraine's inflation and shortage problems happening there now, those local Ukrainians in the know in the bitcoin ecosystem could readily exchange bitcoin (and probably have already) for euros or bitcoin for dollars or vice versa and circumvent Ukraine's currency altogether. Knowing better is doing better. But unless one's already skilled in bitcoin, of course this would be difficult.

dmt, I'm not familiar with the apple platform at all, so I can only tell you of my success and satisfaction with the Mycelium app for the android platform. Which is simple and easy. If the issue is apple apps in general, I imagine you have climbing apps or other apps on your mobile? so I'm not sure how downloading the Mycelium app would be any different re risk?

Regarding risk, if you're using bitcoin for purchases or transfers in city travel or whatever, you can of course minimize risk by carrying only small amts in your mobile device. So if by some malware it's ripped off, no big deal; or if your mobile is lost or stolen, once again no big deal at least re its bitcoin. Again, I only keep $20 or so in my mobile wallet knowing I can increase it in seconds if an increase is ever needed.

Gox declared bankruptcy today, remarkable is bitcoin's resiliency in the face of it. (Though many knew it was coming and already made allowances for it.)

dmt and nature, if perchance you're not going to consume your "cuppas," please play em forward somehow. Forever dormant bitcoin is wasted bitcoin.

Happie, it seems to me you're spending a lot of your time in bitcoin "study" in the soap opera drama of it all, the blogs, conspiracy theories, etc.. Research the actual technology itself, for starters at the Bitcoin 101 level (there is a lot of easy to understand material out there for this) and a lot of things will be easier to understand, there won't be so much confusing gray area.

hfcs
1K9o6Kz4QxS62TC1pzVi25n7XcP7D6Bizv
WBraun

climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 11:11am PT
The world elite bankers will try to sabotage the bitcoin for it's threat against their system ......
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 28, 2014 - 11:17am PT
HFCS - My interest doesn't lay in the usefulness and technology of the thing. At this point, I have no need for alternate currencies, as I run a pretty skim wallet on all fronts. I don't need to jump in just to be in.


But let me ask you a question. Supposing the "plug gets pulled" on the internet. I'm not interesting in discussing "that's highly unlikely." Just taken at face value - How would one access their Bitcoin/digital currency if they are unable to access the internet, any internet?
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Feb 28, 2014 - 11:23am PT
Fools & their money are soon separated.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Feb 28, 2014 - 11:26am PT
My interest doesn't lay in the usefulness and technology of the thing.

Okay.

Supposing the "plug gets pulled" on the internet.

Supposing the plug gets pulled on the space-time continuum...

Later.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 28, 2014 - 11:45am PT
Happie, good find and in all honesty the IMF would be remiss on two counts
for not looking at the bitcoin's effects. The first is the obvious one of
what effect it might actually have on the world's currency. The second is
that no bureaucracy can let any opportunity to make a mountain out of a molehill
go unpunished, so to speak. In the article they did note that

"The threat posed by Bitcoin is, for the moment, only theoretical."

In view of the recent developments it may prove to be purely academic. In
the grand scheme of things, as I noted, the one hand clapping runs thusly:
there was recently $7 billion USD worth of bitcoins in circulation. That is
about 1/10,000th of the world's total currency, almost a rounding error.
And it turns out I wasn't far off yesterday when I compared it to the GDP
of Malawi. I just checked and we would have to also throw in the
Central African Republic.

I would also ask you if the bitcoin is valued in dollars, euros, and renminbis
then it has no intrinsic value of its own, does it?
Eric Beck

Sport climber
Bishop, California
Feb 28, 2014 - 12:27pm PT
I would also ask you if the bitcoin is valued in dollars, euros, and renminbis
then it has no intrinsic value of its own, does it?


Do any of you think that dollars, euros and renminbis have any intrinsic value?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 28, 2014 - 01:37pm PT
Reilly - I think somewhere in that paper, the author provided numbers as to how the value of a Bitcoin could increase exponentially in some scenarios. I just glanced through and didn't locate, so possibly it was in another document I read(though I think not).

The document does detail how use of Bitcoin to make a speculative attack on a country's currency would work. again, I didn't read it in depth, but it is outlined in a way that seems to imply taking a "don't worry" attitude would be grossly negligent.

It doesn't take *that* much to destabilize a currency.

The paper also includes a suggestion that the IMF really needs to have a reserve of Bitcoin itself to counter such an attack, but...how to get that BTC?


How to, indeed.


They just have, but people can go on ahead and believe this recent brouhaha was just incompetence or criminality on the part of Karpeles.

(Edit: My feeling is that last year when the Dept. of Homeland Security raided Dwolla(a client of MTGox) and seized that almost 3M assets) they got their "in." It's likely that Kareles got touched in the dealings(of COURSE he did). He was probably given a choice to cooperate or take it the hard way.)


Yak-Chik

Trad climber
Phoenix
Feb 28, 2014 - 01:38pm PT
I don't know what a stupid bitcoin is but in my opinion the Gox guy looks guilty.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/28/us-bitcoin-mtgox-bankruptcy-idUSBREA1R0FX20140228


Mt. Gox CEO: We're Bankrupt, and the Bitcoins Have Disappeared
-$480 million !
Attackers take advantage of fundamental flaw in the Bitcoin protocol.
At the press conference
With a deep, apologetic bow, which is followed with Karpeles announcement
that Mt. Gox has seen around 750,000 bitcoins belonging to customers,
along with 100,000 of Mt. Gox's own bitcoins, disappear (stolen)
http://www-refresh.vice-motherboard-test.appspot.com/read/watch-mt-gox-
ceo-mark-karpeles-admit-the-bitcoins-have-disappeared






blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Feb 28, 2014 - 01:47pm PT
Do any of you think that dollars, euros and renminbis have any intrinsic value?

Yes, at least sort of--it's the nature of "fiat currency" where a government compels taxes to be paid in that government's currency.
You don't pay your taxes to the US government in US dollars -> you go to jail (not all the time, but that's the threat that makes us pay, at least in part).
The "intrinsic value" of dollars is based on the very-real power of the US government.

Not saying "fiat currency" that is merely backed by government power and not anything else is good thing -- that's complicated and I don't know much about it.
But I don't think it's true to say that the value of US dollars depends purely on "belief" or "trust" or anything quite so ephemeral.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 28, 2014 - 01:52pm PT
Yes, blabla, but as previously noted it is more on faith than power. I trust
the US and European guvmints' monetary policies a LOT more than I do Mt Gox'.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Feb 28, 2014 - 01:56pm PT
in this article(Feb 11 of this year)- http://bitcoin-betting-guide.com/james-cannings-blog/imf-managing-director-christine-lagarde-answers-bitcoin-question-on-abcs-qa/- Christine Lagarde(IMF Managing Director) answers a question about Bitcoin, saying the big problem really is that being unregulated, it is a big opportunity for money laundering(as everybody of course knows).

But what I found funny was how immediately after using that dirty word, "money laundering," she comes right out and says "avoiding paying taxes."
Does she care that Bitcoin can be used to finance human slavery, produce snuff porn, move drugs, run weapons.... No. But why should she. Ethics are not the concern of the IMF; keeping the financial players in their places is their job. The problem with Bitcoin, it seems from her standpoint, is that "bad guys" will no longer have to eventually clean the money through legitimate sources. It can stay dirty, dirty, dirty ad infinitum.

And that, is a problem.


edit: Reilly - Well, soon the government will be putting their stamp of approval on Bitcoin, so you'll be able to trust it too, if you want to.
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Feb 28, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
How opposite of funny would it be if the NSA ripped off MtGox?
Maybe the Japanese Keisatsu-chō (National Police Agency) should ask
our FBI to check out who over at NSA is suddenly buying diamonds,
gold, luxury cars and a change of address into swank upscale Virginia mansions all bought with unexplained bitcoins?





kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Feb 28, 2014 - 04:57pm PT
Interesting story about malware stealing bitcoins:

www.darkreading.com/attacks-breaches/more-than-100-flavors-of-malware-are-ste/240166357
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 28, 2014 - 11:35pm PT
Fools & their money are soon separated.

And after you lose it all, don't come here ask for a fundraiser "fest" to be put on for you.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Mar 4, 2014 - 03:06pm PT
Oh yes yes... i've been out of the loop for a bit. I see two transactions. thanks for the coffee! :)

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 5, 2014 - 11:28am PT
Another one got bit...seems like any dealers who didn't fix that code flaw are going to see their funds wiped out. Flexcoin goes down.http://www.flexcoin.com/

March 3rd:
On March 2nd 2014 Flexcoin was attacked and robbed of all coins in the hot wallet. The attacker made off with 896 BTC, dividing them into these two addresses:

1NDkevapt4SWYFEmquCDBSf7DLMTNVggdu

1QFcC5JitGwpFKqRDd9QNH3eGN56dCNgy6

As Flexcoin does not have the resources, assets, or otherwise to come back from this loss, we are closing our doors immediately.

And March 4th
During the investigation into stolen funds we have determined that the extent of the theft was enabled by a flaw within the front-end.

The attacker logged into the flexcoin front end from IP address 207.12.89.117 under a newly created username and deposited to address 1DSD3B3uS2wGZjZAwa2dqQ7M9v7Ajw2iLy

The coins were then left to sit until they had reached 6 confirmations.

The attacker then successfully exploited a flaw in the code which allows transfers between flexcoin users. By sending thousands of simultaneous requests, the attacker was able to "move" coins from one user account to another until the sending account was overdrawn, before balances were updated.

This was then repeated through multiple accounts, snowballing the amount, until the attacker withdrew the coins.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Mar 5, 2014 - 06:30pm PT
The plot thickens....

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/head-online-currency-exchange-found-dead-singapore-n45101
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 5, 2014 - 06:38pm PT
HFCS, your love for Bitchcoin is touching but you never answered my question
from a while back as to why we need it other than to, as Happie pointed out,
avoid taxes and launder drug money, noble ends in themselves.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 5, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
Reilly - I think I also mentioned that digital currency works in favor of A growing number of people are "bankless," and with the usury rates the financial institutions charge, if there's a better option, why WOULDN'T someone take advantage of that? The banks have been reaming us and plenty are sick of it.


Stahlbro - It is strange -very strange- that bankers are dropping like flies, in rather unfortunate circumstances. What is the number now - seven with the last 8 weeks or so?

But I suppose maybe it is a psychological thing....Remember when those high school girls began coming down with symptoms similar to Tourette's Syndrome? The official explanation was that they were "bringing it on themselves in a mass hysteria." as implausible as that may seem, they "were" girls after all.... I would love to see someone suggest in a public way that the bankers are killing themselves out of some compulsion after learning about the death of other bankers. I mean-really....If the cause is good enough to dismiss a dozen young women, it ought to do for bankers.
Gene

climber
Mar 5, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
Hey, Business Owner.

Let’s just say you borrowed 200 Bitcoins two years ago to buy some equipment for your business to increase revenue and profit. That loan allowed you to buy US $500 worth of stuff. You have faithfully made ever increasing interest payments in Bitcoins on the loan and the current loan balance is $120,000. Yikes!

Wait until all Bitcoins are mined – a fixed supply of the ‘currency.’ The economy is booming and you need to borrow operating/business expansion capital. Demand for Bitcoin is high and the price of a Bitcoin is rising cuz there ain’t no more of them out there to be mined. What do you think the interest rate would be with a fixed supply of currency in a growing economy? All your operating expenses are going up because your suppliers want to be paid in Bitcoin.

On Tuesday I order something from you. By next Monday, when UPS shows, up it’s ‘worth’ 20% more than I paid for it. But I can’t put it on eBay because by the time a buyer shows up, it’s worth 20% less than I paid for it.

Bitcoin is no different than tulip bulbs, Pokeman cards, the crap you bought from Zynga for your virtual farm, etc. It’s a commodity that’s worth only what someone will trade you for it in a fiat-currency.

g

FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Mar 5, 2014 - 09:50pm PT
Eric, I mean no disrespect - but sorry the U.S. dollar has a huge value. It is the worlds reserve currency + it's backed by the U.S. & protected by the Dept. of Treasury & the U.S. S.S. If you think this county is broke you are wrong.

What is Bitcoin or any fake currency backed by? Who protects Bitcoin?

We live in a very rich country with enormous assets & value we have not even started to touch.

Yes we have one political party the would like to brake our Government & maybe they will - but that is still a long way off.

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