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| Messages 1 - 68 of total 68 in this topic |
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Really sad.
Condolences to the families.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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You mean Deadly New Jersey Nut attack
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE. . . .
yeah, sure, NRA. If he had a knife, it's doubtful anybody
would have been killed. . .
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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If he'd made his first stop the international terminal and El Al he's most likely been the only one terminated.
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Mimi
climber
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I'm afraid that's exactly where our country's heading, TGT.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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What I don't get is with all the tools all over the airports how did this go on for so long?
Or are many as useless as they appear? And they seem so proficient at shooting kids with toy guns but they can't take out a real shooter.
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Mimi
climber
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He was trained by TSA wasn't he? It was workplace violence from what was reported earlier. He was able to easily get through security.
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MisterE
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2013 - 11:35pm PT
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Sorry up front for the gun thread - no issue with the debate.
Skip's co-worker dropped his GF at 7AM as well.
Worried more about the spawning and resultant "Grand Theft Auto" generation
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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What I don't get is with all the tools all over the airports how did this go on for so long?
Or are many as useless as they appear? And they seem so proficient at shooting kids with toy guns but they can't take out a real shooter.
Because the gun lobby want you to think that more guns are the answer. They sell guns to the criminals and the lunatics then tell the sheep that only owning a gun will save them from the criminals and lunatics.
I just can't wait to see how they try to explain this one away. "What we need is even more armed guards to protect the armed guards?"
TE
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Does it matter to the dead what make, model and caliber killed them?
Call it an "assault rifle", call it a " thunder stick" WTF?
Why the desperate effort to blather semantics?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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'Cuz gun-nutz just want to do anything they want, with any gun, to anyone, at anytime, and if you don't like it, you're an anti-Constitutional commie.
If we weren't talking about guns, most would consider such behavior to be childishly myopic & self-oriented.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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You guys are fiddling away while Rome burns. A crazy guy shot some people. So why is LAX still shut down? Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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"Nowhere do I see any mention of the brand, caliber, etc."
Most news sources are now reporting that the weapon was an AR-15, and the shooter had several hundred rounds of ammo on him.
Yeah, I know.....that doesn't mean jack-shit to you gun-nutz.
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Cracko
Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
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Modern journalism.....If you are not talented enough to write a good story, you create a good story!
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Deekaid
climber
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semi-automatic AR 15 not an assault rifle
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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You know Ron that is just the News industry. People die by the dozens every day in car accidents but you only really hear about the multicar manglings. So who's agenda does that promote?
"Not an assault rifle" Whew thank Gawd that'll make the bullet holes feel better.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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irony is most of the are most wuss and weak and haven't been in a street fight. yeah. what he said!
wait. what???
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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You know, we can argue semantics and meaning of "assault rifle" and "The Constitution" until we're blue in the face. Won't change the fact that there's a segment of our society that's prone to violence and sociopathic behavior that's being egged on to commit horrible acts by the RW noise machine.
Tell me this: how many attacks have been committed with grenades and/or fully automatic weapons? Pretty much zero. Because they're really hard to get.
People are lazy, and if you limit the availability of weapons that allow killing a lot of people quickly, the number of times a lot of people are killed quickly will drop. 5.56Nato is a horrible round for anything bigger than a gopher, and there's no legitimate reason for military-style/capacity versions to be available to anyone with a credit card that walks into Walmart.
Edit: should point out that 5.56Nato is used by the military *precicely* because it won't kill. A wounded soldier is not left behind like a dead one, and caring for the wounded is an economic and psychological toll that makes early surrender attractive.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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^^^ what's your point?
there were 36 murders in LA this October. 29 were from gunshot, 1 was a stabbing.
edit-i was responding to a post that has now been deleted.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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I linked at least 3 incidents of knife stabbing fatalities on Nov. 1,2013.
(For some reason most of the links didn't work)
My point was that none of these knife murders received any hyped attention in the national mainstream media.
Look , you gun- elimination fanatics are going to have to face a few facts of life.
Either eliminate the Second Amendment or quit ringing your hands. Put up or shut up.
Good luck.
What you fail to recognize or appreciate is the political meaning that underlies the right to private gun ownership in the United States.
Until you are able to deflect that political meaning away from a constitutionally protected right and shift it totally onto these rare incidences in which guns are misused ,you will not succeed in taking guns out of law-abiding citizens hands.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Nov 2, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
F##3ken anti-gun nut wusses.
Assault rifles had been banned in CA long time ago.
Anyway, this kind of person would make an explosive if he couldn't get access to another weapon and ripped a few more faces off.
Stupid Straw Man argument.
He didn't go 3rd world on them I mean... No he went "American" on them.
They (anti-gun nuts) want all of us to live experiencing tooth and claw fights everywhere
WTF?
(and these nuts hate women so bad, they're full of hatred)... Again WTF? Are you insane or asinine?
irony is most of the are most wuss and weak and haven't been in a street fight. You are one dumb ass mother f*#ker.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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I linked at least 3 incidents of knife stabbing fatalities on Nov. 1,2013.
(For some reason most of the links didn't work) they didn't work because you put them within the quote function and it made the [/quote part of the link. It's pointless though. None of the 29 gun murders in Los Angeles received national attention either. If the guy had killed a TSA agent and caused the shutdown of a terminal at LAX with a knife, it still would receive national attention.
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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If the guy had killed a TSA agent and caused the shutdown of a terminal at LAX with a knife, it still would receive national attention.
Perhaps, but it would not have provoked this hand-wringing thread.
'wringing'
So , all you've got is a misspelling and a photo which is somehow suppose to link me to uneducated moron gun "nutz"
Btw , it's spelled "nuts"
That ad hominem boilerplate Politard stuff never works.
Better use your enormous brain power to find a way to eliminate the Second Amendment.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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If the guy had killed a TSA agent and caused the shutdown of a terminal at LAX with a knife, it still would receive national attention.
Perhaps, but it would not have provoked this thread.
Yes that act would have certainly spawned at least two or three threads.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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PeoplesCube, huh?
Ward Trotter = Donald Thompson?
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Ward Trotter
Trad climber
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Ward Trotter = Donald Thompson?
Nope. Sorry. Ward Trotter=Ward Trotter .
Lots of people enjoy Peoples Cube.
I'm a student of history.
All "progressives " should appreciate their ideological similarities with the Socialist totalitarianism satirized in the People's cube.
A lot of the people on that site have actually lived under a system where only the government owns guns. And own everything else btw.
The current crop of baby boomer progressives that are now running this country remind me a lot of the cafe-society European intelligentsia of the late 1800s, early 1900s, whose justifications ultimately paved the way for the awful collectivism of Nazi Germany ,Soviet Russia, and Communist China.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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No doubt...but here at ST, the primary person who posted that kind of Krap® on a regular basis was Donald Thompson.
Not sayin'....jess sayin'.
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Deekaid
climber
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Clips are what women put in their hair...guns accept magazines
I AM SEMANTICS MAN!!!
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MisterE
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2013 - 08:33pm PT
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Sorry if I mis-posted the type of gun - pretty clueless about this, and was just reporting what I had seen on the news.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Yeah, miss quoting gun type, now that is the sorry part of this story.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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DT kinda slipped away...wonder what happened to him?
Why would he bother with another avatar?
Edit: Oooooo....looks like DT got the boot sometime around Feb 1 of this year....
Hmmm....things are adding up....
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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I kinda miss the time way back when the ST whackadoodles were actually coherent in their arguments and knew how to spell properly....
I blame Bush43 for this, as clearly if anyone is living proof of the Peter Principle, he is.
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MisterE
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
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So now that there is the idea for this kind of attack, what is the preventative measure?
There is too much traffic in and out of the airports for individual vehicular searches - do you beef up security even more and add even more check-points at the entry points?
That sounds nightmarish - everyone has big bags...
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Riley...Most of us are afraid to wash our v-ginas without PPE only because of OSHA whistle blowers..
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Worried more about the spawning and resultant "Grand Theft Auto" generation
Yeah, it's definitely violent video games. thing's me, and just about every boy and most girls my generation, have been toying with for 20 years.
When people start pulling strangers out of cars and jumping them over freeway ramps, then I'll give it to you.
If only we had armed guards, armed civilians, a gun turret by the bathroom and the planes were equipped with heat-seeking missiles this could have been averted.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Eddie, you are an idiot. A gun dealer can't sell to a criminal or a mental patient. Hasn't been able to for years. Quit blathering.
What idiotic blather.
Actually, worse than than, a deliberate misdirection.
40% of gun sales do not go through "gun dealers".
As you know.
You're trying to protect the sales of guns to violent people convicted of crimes, gangs, and insane people.
Nice.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Clips are what women put in their hair...guns accept magazines
I AM SEMANTICS MAN!!!
Actually, guns are what little boys play with, FIREARMS accept magazines.
You're an idiot.
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Deekaid
climber
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oooo good one, kenema
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Deekaid
climber
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so it is a 12gauge shotfirearm?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Eddie, you are an idiot. A gun dealer can't sell to a criminal or a mental patient. Hasn't been able to for years. Quit blathering.
The mental patients and criminals might have go to a gun show where no background check is required. Which makes you wonder why a background check would be required anywhere
just saying
Peace
Karl
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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The mental patients and criminals might have go to a gun show where no background check is required. Which makes you wonder why a background check would be required anywhere
just saying
Peace
Karl
Wrong.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/20/more-americans-have-died-from-domestic-gunfire-than-all-wars-in-u-s-history-is-that-true/
More Americans Have Died From Domestic Gunfire Than All Wars In U.S. History – Is That True?
AUTHOR: LORRAINE DEVON WILKE JANUARY 20, 2013 9:19 AM
PBS’s Mark Shields gets it right @ PolitiFact
Let’s start with the number: 1,384,171.
1,38,171 people have died in the most devastating war fought by Americans. Which war, you ask? World War I? World War II? The Civil War?
None of the above. This number is from the war being fought on the streets, in the neighborhoods, private homes, schools, and work places of the United States of America. Deaths by gunfire. Domestic gun deaths perpetrated by criminals, the mentally ill; enraged husbands, angry children, and some by unfortunate accident or suicide. And the number only reflects gun death statistics since 1968.
And, stunningly, this number exceeds the number of casualties in all the wars in U.S. history by 212,994. Impossible to believe? It is a claim made and proven:
PBS commentator, Mark Shields, made the claim on December 21, 2012, just a week after the Sandy Hook shootings, and during the PBS NewsHour with Judy Woodruff and Mark Gerson. From the show’s transcript:
JUDY WOODRUFF: Let me turn you both to the gun control discussion.
We heard from the head of the NRA, Mark, today, Wayne LaPierre, who is advocating putting an armed guard in every school. The president has launched a task force this week. Where do you see this headed?
MARK SHIELDS: I mean, to call Wayne LaPierre and the NRA have a tin ear, I think is an understatement. I mean, they seem to be almost whining about criticism of their position, that it somehow was rooted in the press bias or elected officials who have gun-free school zones.
You know, Judy, the reality is — and it’s a terrible reality — since Robert Kennedy died in the Ambassador Hotel on June 4, 1968, more Americans have died from gunfire than died in all the — all the wars, all the wars of this country’s history, from the Revolutionary through the Civil War, World War I, World War II, in those 43 years.
Given what seemed to be a hyperbolic statement – more than all wars in U.S. history? – Pulitzer Prize-winning and fact-checking website, PolitiFact, decided to investigate Shield’s claim. Putting their iconic “Truth-O-Meter” to work, they came up with some startling facts.
In considering all gun deaths in America since 1968, not just homicides, they gleaned their figures from databases at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the FBI:
“The number of deaths from gunfire is a bit more complicated to total. Two Internet-accessible data sets from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention allow us to pin down the number of deaths from 1981 to 1998 and from 1999 to 2010. We’ve added FBI figures for 2011, and we offer a number for 1968 to 1980 using a conservative estimate of data we found in a graph in this 1994 paper published by the CDC.”
The compilations they extrapolated from that research led to the figures for each of the year-increments in the chart below, with 2011 clearly lower because it only reflects FBI figures, with more complete statistics to come …but even with that, the total gun deaths trump wartime dead.:
War deaths were compiled using a comprehensive document prepared by the Congressional Research Service, as well as the website icasualties.org. The war dead statistics were arrived at by combining “all war-related deaths, not just those that occurred in combat,” which makes the fact that these numbers are dwarfed by domestic gun deaths all the more shocking:
Simple arithmetic tells us Mark Shield’s statement is correct: gun deaths in America since only 1968 exceed the casualty totals of all U.S. wars by 212,994 deaths.
These numbers put the urgency of more effective and better implemented gun control into high relief. They also remind us that the most devastating war being fought by Americans is the one happening right on our own doorsteps, serviced by very weapons too many have aggrandized above the safety of our own citizens. Simply put, that needs to change.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Pud wrote
The mental patients and criminals might have go to a gun show where no background check is required. Which makes you wonder why a background check would be required anywhere
just saying
Peace
Karl
Wrong.
Prove it
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/gun-show-firearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html
"......Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks.
Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law clearly defined private sellers as anyone who sold no more than four firearms per year. But the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act lifted that restriction and loosely defined private sellers as people who do not rely on gun sales as the principal way of obtaining their livelihood. ....."
Not to mention Online
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-08-05/politics/41068573_1_background-checks-private-sales-gun-sales
"The marketplace for firearms on the Internet, where buyers are not required to undergo background checks, is so vast that advocates for stricter regulations now consider online sales a greater threat than the gun-show loophole.
A new study by Third Way , a center-left think tank with close ties to the Obama administration, found that thousands of guns, including so-called assault weapons, are for sale online and that many prospective buyers were shopping online specifically to avoid background checks....."
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Deekaid
climber
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California requires background checks even at gun shows that is probably what he was referring to
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Karl, The 'Proof' is in the law.
In California, background checks are required on all long guns and handguns regardless of where they are purchased. Private Party, Gunshow, Dealer or Online sales all require a FFL transfer.
If you buy a firearm online for example, it will not be shipped to your local Federal Firearms Licensed dealer until they confirm it is a California compliant firearm.
Once this has been accepted by both seller and Transfer agency (FFL) it will be shipped.
Once it arrives the waiting period begins. If purchaser does not qualify for any reason, they will not receive the weapon.
Not directed at you personally but, the biggest problem facing gun laws that work is misinformation and the fear driven reaction of the ignorant.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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California is one state. I guess this might limit guns to criminals without the means to hit up a gun show in the next state
Peace
Karl
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Karl,
It's illegal to buy a gun in a state where you do not reside, whether at a gun show or anywhere else.
So you can't just go to a different state, buy a gun, and bring it back to California without being a felon.
You can't even move here from a different state, and bring with you any non-California compliant guns you may have legally owned before, without being a felon.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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So you guys support the california laws with these background check restrictions that most other states don't have and which the NRA strongly resists?
Peace
lar;
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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No. The California gun laws, where they differ with our neighboring states, are both ineffective and asinine.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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So it would be fair to say that you'd support gun laws (or lack of gun laws) where mental patients and criminals could buy guns without checks at gun shows or online.
(Not saying what's right or wrong, just checkin)
Peace
Karl
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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It's already illegal everywhere in the country for a criminal or a mental patient to possess a gun.
It's also illegal to sell a gun to a criminal or a mental patient, in all fifty states.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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I lived in and drove a rig out of San Bernardino during the Rodney King riots. The racial tensions were sky-high in San Berdo for weeks surrounding the verdict. At one point I opened my door to go out to my car to get to work, and four black dudes were just hanging out on and around my car. I called over, "I need to get to work. Can I get to my car?" Nothing provocative at all. I was as low-key and even humble in my request as possible, not wanting to start any trouble.
They started yelling all sorts of vile crap and dared me to come on down.
I went back inside, got my .357, and my friend grabbed his shotgun. We opened the door again and stepped out just enough to show that we had firepower, and I said, "Look, all I want is to get to work. I'm not starting any sh|t, but if you want some, then let's get to it."
Instant dispersal!
My friend watched my back from the doorway while I got into my car and went to work. I drove my rig armed.
The alternative? Call the cops? What a JOKE! The cops had more to deal with during that period than they POSSIBLY could, and anybody that lived in the Inland Empire during that time knows what I mean. The idea that the Nanny State is going to give you the protection you need, even in a fairly "low key" riot situation is living in a fantasy land! And if things really go bad, even the National Guard isn't going to save your butt.
I'll keep the ability to protect myself and my own family, thank you very much. And here in Colorado, the sheriffs all agree with this basic perspective. Law enforcement's job is made EASIER by a responsible and armed citizenry (and the percentage of nut-jobs remains very small, even though the base population keeps growing).
So, I got to work and am alive today to talk about it. Others from that time did and are not. And that's just one of several such stories I could tell.
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WBraun
climber
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"I went back inside, got my .357, and my friend grabbed his shotgun.
We opened the door again and stepped out just enough to show that we had firepower,"
LOL Hahaha
Watch the supertopo wingnut anti-gun nuts go crazy now.
Stupid anti-gun nuts have no clue what's really going on .....
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Nice post Tioga. Karl, there is no "gun show loophole" in this "North of you" next state over. Regardless, it only shows your ignorance on this subject. I know you to be a good person. I ask you to look deeply at only 2 things.
1st) Examine Mexico, the "next state over" the other direction. They put heavy restrictions on gun ownership and essentially all but banned them. (there's an elaborate process on paper to get them that make ownership all but impossible for a normal person) Look at crime stats on both sides of the border, say, Laredo, Mx and Texas. In Texas where gun ownership is rampant, there is little gun crime compared to Mexico, where gun ownership is all but illegal, and gun crime is everywhere. They've made guns illegal except for a few. The downside of that for honest citizens is that those who have guns are rich folks, police and criminals. The Police, as it turns out, are the ones doing most of the kidnappings. These kidnappings occur a couple of times a day and are so common to be all but not reported. Disarming the honest citizens has made them victims of both the police and the criminals, who of course chose not to disarm themselves. Is this what you want? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico
2nd) Would you really want your friends, acquaintances and relatives to have NO access to guns, whereas, the politicians would still have such? For myself, I trust my friends and family much more than politicians, even though most would not know which end to point and choose to not own them. What is in your heart here, for you? Do you really want to trust only politicians?
I've found Karl, that my friends and family do not seek power for it's own sake, to go for what ever it takes to control you, whereas those who run for office more often than have this character flaw.
regards
Couch
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Couch wrote
Nice post Tioga. Karl, there is no "gun show loophole" in this "North of you" next state over. Regardless, it only shows your ignorance on this subject. I know you to be a good person. I ask you to look deeply at only 2 things.
Come on man. I posted links about the gun show loophole, show me your knowledge by documenting your statements instead of just writing stuff.
And saying "It's illegal for mental patents and criminals to possess a gun" means little if gun shows and online sources don't check.
Look I'm not arguing for gun control, just pointing out that the existing checks (outside of california anyway) don't mean anything
peace
karl
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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cool picture Dave
and thanks for pointing out that President Obama did for gun rights what no President in the past 40 years has done, actually signed into law legislation increasing gun carry rights
yep, Bush would not do it and he had 8 years to do so, but President Obama did in in his first
three years
thanks to Obama, I can and DO now carry on Amtrak trains and I also can carry in National Parks
in my state with my CCL
again, thanks for pointing that out Dave
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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So you can't just go to a different state, buy a gun, and bring it back to California without being a felon.
You can't even move here from a different state, and bring with you any non-California compliant guns you may have legally owned before, without being a felon.
chaz, you certainly can go to a different state. You are certainly not a felon, EXCEPT if you are caught, and found guilty in a court of law. You are not automatically a felon for simply doing it.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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LOL
I guess I've had my share of confrontational situations I would rather not have been part of.
I guess, be it gun or drill, it's important to be packin' the appropriate caliber and be prepared to use it....
LOL
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Roots
Mountain climber
SoCal
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To anti-gun Nutjobs....
(for the record, I'm not speaking from purely theoretical standpoint of someone who never been shot at. Personally, had been shot at from AK, rifles, and heavier weapons. Had, for example, bored patrol of about 8-9 government soldiers shoot many rounds at me near my place,from AKs, just for entertainment, hitting the air and ground around me as I was running--they are bored to just shoot people directly sometimes and want to have more entertainment before they kill you, etc)
Tioga - I am sorry you had to live through that type of situation(s).
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Eddie, you are an idiot. A gun dealer can't sell to a criminal or a mental patient. Hasn't been able to for years. Quit blathering.
Try some reading comprehension before you call someone an idiot. I never said they could, I never even mentioned gun dealers, but when a gun dealer sells a gun to a straw purchaser, the manufacturer, distributor and dealer not only make the same profit, but the resulting crime with that gun increases legitimate sales too, it's a twofer. How else do you explain gun manufacturers' and dealers' opposition to universal background checks, which would restrict the second-hand gun market, and stimulate purchases of new guns?
It's also illegal to sell a gun to a criminal or a mental patient, in all fifty states.
Can you really not google "federal gun ownership restrictions"?
It is completely legal in almost all states to sell a gun to a complete stranger, criminal, lunatic or otherwise. It is only illegal if you know or have reasonable reason to believe the buyer is prohibited from possessing firearms. That's a loophole big enough to drive a Mack truck full of straw-purchased guns through.
This lunatic in LAX was just exercising his constitutionally protected right to oppose the government by force that gun nuts maintain is the explicit purpose of the second amendment. They should be cheering him.
TE
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