Deadly Assault Rifle Attack at LAX (OT)

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MisterE

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 1, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
This sounds crazy:

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Los-Angeles-Airport-LAX-Shooting-230220201.html

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/01/21279788-sources-alleged-lax-gunman-had-new-world-order-conspiracy-theory-tract?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Nov 1, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
Really sad.

Condolences to the families.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 1, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
You mean Deadly New Jersey Nut attack
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 1, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
Friend of mine was one terminal over, last plane out. Lockdown from that point, I hear.

DMT
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Nov 1, 2013 - 07:08pm PT

GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE. . . .

yeah, sure, NRA. If he had a knife, it's doubtful anybody
would have been killed. . .
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 1, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
If he'd made his first stop the international terminal and El Al he's most likely been the only one terminated.
Mimi

climber
Nov 1, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
I'm afraid that's exactly where our country's heading, TGT.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 1, 2013 - 07:48pm PT
What I don't get is with all the tools all over the airports how did this go on for so long?
Or are many as useless as they appear? And they seem so proficient at shooting kids with toy guns but they can't take out a real shooter.
Mimi

climber
Nov 1, 2013 - 07:50pm PT
He was trained by TSA wasn't he? It was workplace violence from what was reported earlier. He was able to easily get through security.
MisterE

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 1, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
Sorry up front for the gun thread - no issue with the debate.

Skip's co-worker dropped his GF at 7AM as well.

Worried more about the spawning and resultant "Grand Theft Auto" generation
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Nov 2, 2013 - 07:44am PT
What I don't get is with all the tools all over the airports how did this go on for so long?
Or are many as useless as they appear? And they seem so proficient at shooting kids with toy guns but they can't take out a real shooter.

Because the gun lobby want you to think that more guns are the answer. They sell guns to the criminals and the lunatics then tell the sheep that only owning a gun will save them from the criminals and lunatics.
I just can't wait to see how they try to explain this one away. "What we need is even more armed guards to protect the armed guards?"

TE
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Nov 2, 2013 - 08:05am PT




philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:00am PT
Credit: philo
TheMaster

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:02am PT
Eddie, you are an idiot. A gun dealer can't sell to a criminal or a mental patient. Hasn't been able to for years. Quit blathering.

I have read a dozen articles in which they call the weapon an "assault rifle". Nowhere do I see any mention of the brand, caliber, etc. Have we reached the point where media hears a couple of hysterical witnesses say it "was an assault rifle" and the investigative journalism stops there?

Also, the mayor needs to check himself. Stupid comments like "100 rds that could have killed everybody in the terminal"? These "officials" need to stop acting like hysterical teenage girls and act like leaders once in a while. They just engage in the blathering like the citizens they are supposed to be leading.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:12am PT
Does it matter to the dead what make, model and caliber killed them?
Call it an "assault rifle", call it a " thunder stick" WTF?
Why the desperate effort to blather semantics?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:20am PT
'Cuz gun-nutz just want to do anything they want, with any gun, to anyone, at anytime, and if you don't like it, you're an anti-Constitutional commie.

If we weren't talking about guns, most would consider such behavior to be childishly myopic & self-oriented.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
You guys are fiddling away while Rome burns. A crazy guy shot some people. So why is LAX still shut down? Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
how many nightly shootings across the country? And they all get about thirty seconds of news coverage if that. It HAS to be "sensational" for the news to get behind it- so they can further agendas of the owners. And when those come along they milk em for all they can get. City streets and ghettos arent "sensational". And you NEVER hear of the gun incidents like the local stations play where some home owner shoots to burglars in the act. Almost always have to YOUTUBE search those.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
"Nowhere do I see any mention of the brand, caliber, etc."

Most news sources are now reporting that the weapon was an AR-15, and the shooter had several hundred rounds of ammo on him.

Yeah, I know.....that doesn't mean jack-shit to you gun-nutz.
Cracko

Trad climber
Quartz Hill, California
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
Modern journalism.....If you are not talented enough to write a good story, you create a good story!
Deekaid

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
semi-automatic AR 15 not an assault rifle
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
You know Ron that is just the News industry. People die by the dozens every day in car accidents but you only really hear about the multicar manglings. So who's agenda does that promote?

"Not an assault rifle" Whew thank Gawd that'll make the bullet holes feel better.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
F##3ken anti-gun nut wusses.
Assault rifles had been banned in CA long time ago.
Anyway, this kind of person would make an explosive if he couldn't get access to another weapon and ripped a few more faces off. He didn't go 3rd world on them I mean... They (anti-gun nuts) want all of us to live experiencing tooth and claw fights everywhere (and these nuts hate women so bad, they're full of hatred)...irony is most of the are most wuss and weak and haven't been in a street fight.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
Get straight dumb asses
Consult your gun and ammo before commenting or you just look stupid

Dat der gun is dat did the killing is obviously an Ar-874 &@&3: late model with Russian combo bore and it shoots 2738 mm and 337 grain at .83838 secs owe kilowatt of actual kill seconds ..it's not assault people ..it shoots 87.27 rounds per millisecond. I mean how dumb can you be .. . I mean WTF

Clean the jizz off your gun books and get to studying son

How f*#king stupid can you all be to call it an AR - 15 you jack ass !!

And anyone knows that 100 rounds is not the recommended ammo dump to kill a terminal of people ... Stop with the hysterics !!! The kill radius, firing capacity, clip ratio, and pounds of torque c#m strength alone for this harmless weapon would not give you more than 50 dead in a classroom of children ... Lol .. I mean how could this be any simpler ..

Guns don't kill people ...
Get is straight !!
Ok
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
You'll end up living with this, f##3n anti gun trash:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domodedovo_International_Airport_bombing
These people won't stop at lack of guns if they decide to go to town.
Praying Uncle Sam will somehow protect your priceless asses...guess what Uncle Sam doesn't give a rats tail anymore unless you're 1%. Keep banning guns, you'll be living like 3rd world dogs and slaves (like the most of the world lives). You only got your "democracy" cause your ancestors preserved gun rights.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
irony is most of the are most wuss and weak and haven't been in a street fight.
yeah. what he said!






wait. what???
adatesman

climber
philadelphia, pa
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
You know, we can argue semantics and meaning of "assault rifle" and "The Constitution" until we're blue in the face. Won't change the fact that there's a segment of our society that's prone to violence and sociopathic behavior that's being egged on to commit horrible acts by the RW noise machine.

Tell me this: how many attacks have been committed with grenades and/or fully automatic weapons? Pretty much zero. Because they're really hard to get.

People are lazy, and if you limit the availability of weapons that allow killing a lot of people quickly, the number of times a lot of people are killed quickly will drop. 5.56Nato is a horrible round for anything bigger than a gopher, and there's no legitimate reason for military-style/capacity versions to be available to anyone with a credit card that walks into Walmart.


Edit: should point out that 5.56Nato is used by the military *precicely* because it won't kill. A wounded soldier is not left behind like a dead one, and caring for the wounded is an economic and psychological toll that makes early surrender attractive.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
Credit: apogee
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
^^^ what's your point?

there were 36 murders in LA this October. 29 were from gunshot, 1 was a stabbing.



edit-i was responding to a post that has now been deleted.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
I linked at least 3 incidents of knife stabbing fatalities on Nov. 1,2013.
(For some reason most of the links didn't work)

My point was that none of these knife murders received any hyped attention in the national mainstream media.

Look , you gun- elimination fanatics are going to have to face a few facts of life.

Either eliminate the Second Amendment or quit ringing your hands. Put up or shut up.
Good luck.

What you fail to recognize or appreciate is the political meaning that underlies the right to private gun ownership in the United States.

Until you are able to deflect that political meaning away from a constitutionally protected right and shift it totally onto these rare incidences in which guns are misused ,you will not succeed in taking guns out of law-abiding citizens hands.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:21pm PT

Nov 2, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
F##3ken anti-gun nut wusses.
Assault rifles had been banned in CA long time ago.
Anyway, this kind of person would make an explosive if he couldn't get access to another weapon and ripped a few more faces off.
Stupid Straw Man argument.


He didn't go 3rd world on them I mean...
No he went "American" on them.


They (anti-gun nuts) want all of us to live experiencing tooth and claw fights everywhere

WTF?

(and these nuts hate women so bad, they're full of hatred)...
Again WTF? Are you insane or asinine?

irony is most of the are most wuss and weak and haven't been in a street fight.
You are one dumb ass mother f*#ker.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
I linked at least 3 incidents of knife stabbing fatalities on Nov. 1,2013.
(For some reason most of the links didn't work)
they didn't work because you put them within the quote function and it made the [/quote part of the link. It's pointless though. None of the 29 gun murders in Los Angeles received national attention either. If the guy had killed a TSA agent and caused the shutdown of a terminal at LAX with a knife, it still would receive national attention.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
"Either eliminate the Second Amendment or quit ringing your hands."

'wringing'

Credit: apogee

Edit:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1519086/College-is-a-waste-of-time-OT
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
If the guy had killed a TSA agent and caused the shutdown of a terminal at LAX with a knife, it still would receive national attention.

Perhaps, but it would not have provoked this hand-wringing thread.

'wringing'

So , all you've got is a misspelling and a photo which is somehow suppose to link me to uneducated moron gun "nutz"
Btw , it's spelled "nuts"

That ad hominem boilerplate Politard stuff never works.

Better use your enormous brain power to find a way to eliminate the Second Amendment.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:42pm PT

If the guy had killed a TSA agent and caused the shutdown of a terminal at LAX with a knife, it still would receive national attention.

Perhaps, but it would not have provoked this thread.

Yes that act would have certainly spawned at least two or three threads.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Credit: philo
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
Credit: Ward Trotter
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
PeoplesCube, huh?

Ward Trotter = Donald Thompson?
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Ward Trotter = Donald Thompson?

Nope. Sorry. Ward Trotter=Ward Trotter .
Lots of people enjoy Peoples Cube.

I'm a student of history.
All "progressives " should appreciate their ideological similarities with the Socialist totalitarianism satirized in the People's cube.
A lot of the people on that site have actually lived under a system where only the government owns guns. And own everything else btw.

The current crop of baby boomer progressives that are now running this country remind me a lot of the cafe-society European intelligentsia of the late 1800s, early 1900s, whose justifications ultimately paved the way for the awful collectivism of Nazi Germany ,Soviet Russia, and Communist China.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
No doubt...but here at ST, the primary person who posted that kind of Krap® on a regular basis was Donald Thompson.

Not sayin'....jess sayin'.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
Clips are what women put in their hair...guns accept magazines

I AM SEMANTICS MAN!!!
MisterE

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
Sorry if I mis-posted the type of gun - pretty clueless about this, and was just reporting what I had seen on the news.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 2, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
Yeah, miss quoting gun type, now that is the sorry part of this story.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Nov 2, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
I have a suggestion.....




How about we merge all anti-gun threads into one "FEMME BOYZ" thread?? There, they can discuss how the guns are bad and scary, how to do nails and hair, etc...
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Nov 2, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
DT kinda slipped away...wonder what happened to him?

Why would he bother with another avatar?

Edit: Oooooo....looks like DT got the boot sometime around Feb 1 of this year....

Hmmm....things are adding up....
adatesman

climber
philadelphia, pa
Nov 2, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
I kinda miss the time way back when the ST whackadoodles were actually coherent in their arguments and knew how to spell properly....

I blame Bush43 for this, as clearly if anyone is living proof of the Peter Principle, he is.
MisterE

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 2, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
So now that there is the idea for this kind of attack, what is the preventative measure?

There is too much traffic in and out of the airports for individual vehicular searches - do you beef up security even more and add even more check-points at the entry points?

That sounds nightmarish - everyone has big bags...
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Nov 2, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
.


tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest

Nov 2, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
I have a suggestion.....




How about we merge all anti-gun threads into one "FEMME BOYZ" thread?? There, they can discuss how the guns are bad and scary, how to do nails and hair, etc...

There was another comment about a street fight up thread ?
Lol

Ironic considering you gun nuts are too scared and paranoid to clean your vaginas without a personal protective device ..

Now guns equal manliness is the eyes of these tiny dicks?

If any of you diehard gun-tards ever even see a GSW to the head, let alone have to actually pull a trigger, you would end up creaming your panties.
The gun would be taken away from you and if you were lucky it wouldn't end up any further up your a*# than your rectum..
Lol


Your feeling lucky punks?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 2, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
Riley...Most of us are afraid to wash our v-ginas without PPE only because of OSHA whistle blowers..
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 2, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
Riley must be a femme boyeeee lol!
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Hehe
Maybe


But I ain't scared of the Vajaja..
Well, most anyway
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Nov 2, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Worried more about the spawning and resultant "Grand Theft Auto" generation


Yeah, it's definitely violent video games. thing's me, and just about every boy and most girls my generation, have been toying with for 20 years.

When people start pulling strangers out of cars and jumping them over freeway ramps, then I'll give it to you.


If only we had armed guards, armed civilians, a gun turret by the bathroom and the planes were equipped with heat-seeking missiles this could have been averted.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 2, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
Eddie, you are an idiot. A gun dealer can't sell to a criminal or a mental patient. Hasn't been able to for years. Quit blathering.

What idiotic blather.

Actually, worse than than, a deliberate misdirection.

40% of gun sales do not go through "gun dealers".

As you know.

You're trying to protect the sales of guns to violent people convicted of crimes, gangs, and insane people.

Nice.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 2, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
Clips are what women put in their hair...guns accept magazines

I AM SEMANTICS MAN!!!

Actually, guns are what little boys play with, FIREARMS accept magazines.

You're an idiot.
Deekaid

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
oooo good one, kenema
Deekaid

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 11:41pm PT
so it is a 12gauge shotfirearm?
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Nov 3, 2013 - 01:55am PT
v 2, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
Eddie, you are an idiot. A gun dealer can't sell to a criminal or a mental patient. Hasn't been able to for years. Quit blathering.

What idiotic blather.

Actually, worse than than, a deliberate misdirection.

40% of gun sales do not go through "gun dealers".

As you know.

You're trying to protect the sales of guns to violent people convicted of crimes, gangs, and insane people.

Nice.
Yes,
60 IQ idiotic ...

Because you can't tell who is crazy.
Crazy is not a stamp on your forehead .
It's something that might be a full time deal for some people.
But for others it may just come once a month, or year, or just one time in a life .

A gun dealer can not predict or make a diagnosis of emotional instability... Lol
In fact you can argue that most of the people buying guns have some kind of emotional instability because killing in on their mind! Lol.. I mean of you are by yourself locked in a f*#king house with a bunch of guns you got a problem. Be it programmed by the wack, gun crazy culture, or scared like a little bitch, or angry, or just too stupid to figure out anything else to do with his or her day..

I mean this is an issue that is one part consumerism, one part emotional, and one part stupid and there are not any gun dealers who are going to be able to figure out which one is which on any given day.

Lol
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 3, 2013 - 02:25am PT
Eddie, you are an idiot. A gun dealer can't sell to a criminal or a mental patient. Hasn't been able to for years. Quit blathering.

The mental patients and criminals might have go to a gun show where no background check is required. Which makes you wonder why a background check would be required anywhere

just saying

Peace

Karl
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 3, 2013 - 04:24am PT
Clips are what we use in climbing?

Clippy Clips is the full name though.

DMT
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Nov 3, 2013 - 05:50am PT


The mental patients and criminals might have go to a gun show where no background check is required. Which makes you wonder why a background check would be required anywhere

just saying

Peace

Karl

Wrong.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 3, 2013 - 06:01am PT
Apogee I like the faux Randian Russian who can't make up her mind if she's a man or a woman.

DMT
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Nov 3, 2013 - 06:01am PT
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/01/20/more-americans-have-died-from-domestic-gunfire-than-all-wars-in-u-s-history-is-that-true/

More Americans Have Died From Domestic Gunfire Than All Wars In U.S. History – Is That True?
AUTHOR: LORRAINE DEVON WILKE JANUARY 20, 2013 9:19 AM


PBS’s Mark Shields gets it right @ PolitiFact
Let’s start with the number: 1,384,171.

1,38,171 people have died in the most devastating war fought by Americans. Which war, you ask? World War I? World War II? The Civil War?

None of the above. This number is from the war being fought on the streets, in the neighborhoods, private homes, schools, and work places of the United States of America. Deaths by gunfire. Domestic gun deaths perpetrated by criminals, the mentally ill; enraged husbands, angry children, and some by unfortunate accident or suicide. And the number only reflects gun death statistics since 1968.

And, stunningly, this number exceeds the number of casualties in all the wars in U.S. history by 212,994. Impossible to believe? It is a claim made and proven:

PBS commentator, Mark Shields, made the claim on December 21, 2012, just a week after the Sandy Hook shootings, and during the PBS NewsHour with Judy Woodruff and Mark Gerson. From the show’s transcript:

JUDY WOODRUFF: Let me turn you both to the gun control discussion.

We heard from the head of the NRA, Mark, today, Wayne LaPierre, who is advocating putting an armed guard in every school. The president has launched a task force this week. Where do you see this headed?

MARK SHIELDS: I mean, to call Wayne LaPierre and the NRA have a tin ear, I think is an understatement. I mean, they seem to be almost whining about criticism of their position, that it somehow was rooted in the press bias or elected officials who have gun-free school zones.

You know, Judy, the reality is — and it’s a terrible reality — since Robert Kennedy died in the Ambassador Hotel on June 4, 1968, more Americans have died from gunfire than died in all the — all the wars, all the wars of this country’s history, from the Revolutionary through the Civil War, World War I, World War II, in those 43 years.

Given what seemed to be a hyperbolic statement – more than all wars in U.S. history? – Pulitzer Prize-winning and fact-checking website, PolitiFact, decided to investigate Shield’s claim. Putting their iconic “Truth-O-Meter” to work, they came up with some startling facts.

In considering all gun deaths in America since 1968, not just homicides, they gleaned their figures from databases at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the FBI:

“The number of deaths from gunfire is a bit more complicated to total. Two Internet-accessible data sets from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention allow us to pin down the number of deaths from 1981 to 1998 and from 1999 to 2010. We’ve added FBI figures for 2011, and we offer a number for 1968 to 1980 using a conservative estimate of data we found in a graph in this 1994 paper published by the CDC.”

The compilations they extrapolated from that research led to the figures for each of the year-increments in the chart below, with 2011 clearly lower because it only reflects FBI figures, with more complete statistics to come …but even with that, the total gun deaths trump wartime dead.:

War deaths were compiled using a comprehensive document prepared by the Congressional Research Service, as well as the website icasualties.org. The war dead statistics were arrived at by combining “all war-related deaths, not just those that occurred in combat,” which makes the fact that these numbers are dwarfed by domestic gun deaths all the more shocking:

Simple arithmetic tells us Mark Shield’s statement is correct: gun deaths in America since only 1968 exceed the casualty totals of all U.S. wars by 212,994 deaths.

These numbers put the urgency of more effective and better implemented gun control into high relief. They also remind us that the most devastating war being fought by Americans is the one happening right on our own doorsteps, serviced by very weapons too many have aggrandized above the safety of our own citizens. Simply put, that needs to change.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Nov 3, 2013 - 06:12am PT
Philo haven't you read the federalist papers?


The sonsabitches were smart... Hamilton's piece on population control is especially fascinating.

DMT
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 3, 2013 - 10:17am PT
Pud wrote

The mental patients and criminals might have go to a gun show where no background check is required. Which makes you wonder why a background check would be required anywhere

just saying

Peace

Karl

Wrong.

Prove it

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/gun-show-firearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html

"......Known as the "gun show loophole," most states do not require background checks for firearms purchased at gun shows from private individuals -- federal law only requires licensed dealers to conduct checks.

Under the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law clearly defined private sellers as anyone who sold no more than four firearms per year. But the 1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act lifted that restriction and loosely defined private sellers as people who do not rely on gun sales as the principal way of obtaining their livelihood. ....."

Not to mention Online

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-08-05/politics/41068573_1_background-checks-private-sales-gun-sales

"The marketplace for firearms on the Internet, where buyers are not required to undergo background checks, is so vast that advocates for stricter regulations now consider online sales a greater threat than the gun-show loophole.

A new study by Third Way , a center-left think tank with close ties to the Obama administration, found that thousands of guns, including so-called assault weapons, are for sale online and that many prospective buyers were shopping online specifically to avoid background checks....."
Deekaid

climber
Nov 3, 2013 - 10:32am PT
California requires background checks even at gun shows that is probably what he was referring to
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Nov 3, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Karl, The 'Proof' is in the law.

In California, background checks are required on all long guns and handguns regardless of where they are purchased. Private Party, Gunshow, Dealer or Online sales all require a FFL transfer.

If you buy a firearm online for example, it will not be shipped to your local Federal Firearms Licensed dealer until they confirm it is a California compliant firearm.
Once this has been accepted by both seller and Transfer agency (FFL) it will be shipped.
Once it arrives the waiting period begins. If purchaser does not qualify for any reason, they will not receive the weapon.

Not directed at you personally but, the biggest problem facing gun laws that work is misinformation and the fear driven reaction of the ignorant.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Nov 3, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
To anti-gun Nutjobs....
(for the record, I'm not speaking from purely theoretical standpoint of someone who never been shot at. Personally, had been shot at from AK, rifles, and heavier weapons. Had, for example, bored patrol of about 8-9 government soldiers shoot many rounds at me near my place,from AKs, just for entertainment, hitting the air and ground around me as I was running--they are bored to just shoot people directly sometimes and want to have more entertainment before they kill you, etc)

I grew up in a world where guns were banned (there were no democracy either, but that's okay...sometimes you learn you're simply lucky to be alive). Street violence was disgusting and much more pronounced than in the US. It was like living in South Central, but worse. Gangs roamed local forests and camping and hiking wasn't safe by any means, even in groups of two. People would use hammers, axes, knifes, bricks, razors on you whenever they felt like they could overpower or outnumber you. Any physically weaker person was a prime prey. The police simply could not control all this. I learned to make "eye-stabbing brass knuckles" from forks when I was a young teenager, to keep myself safe from street predators, and I carried those. It was a tooth and claw world. Nevertheless, I thought gun prohibition was "normal".

So, some wake up calls started to come:
(if you think such scenarios below are impossible in the US, you're really, really naive...Recall LA riots or New Orleans situation, also think about how long will this "government" will survive and stay in control and if anything is guaranteed to you here, including long and safe life and if there's anything at all, whatsoever protecting you from potential angry mobs, looters, civil war and unrest, etc). Even police...when they become thugs coming to people's home, taking people and killing them, to take over their property, you have nowhere to turn to for "justice". Don't think this will not happen in this US. You have NO guarantees against this (government failure). Theres A LOT of anger built up in many in US population. Something that may explode. Growing up I thought our local government won't ever fail too--nobody thought, including very smart people).

--so, one day I turned on the TV and saw a person who had been skinned (possibly and likely alive) drugged by soldiers. This person did not have a gun take themselves out when they had been taken by the violent, angry mob.

--I had been attacked by a large pack of dogs in a cemetery, when I came to visit family member's grave. These dogs were hungry (and large) and if they get you down, they can eat you.

--Police themselves killing people, for their property

--other incidents kept happening, like people being burned alive by the angry mob.
In many regions, ethnic confrontations erupted as the government begain to fail. People had been:
1) raped in turns in front of family members and then all burned alive
Sometimes rolled up in a carpet and burned alive like this. Sometimes using just gasoline.
2) had meat cut off them and skinned while alive, dismembered while alive
3) after killing the family inside the house, their guts hung
on the fence as a signal to others that this house had been "taken care of"
etc, etc


You can find descriptions and photos of this type of violence in materials mostly regarding places like Yugoslavia war--but this was just one of many places where this happened--however, the "information tyranny" that currently heavily censors media and Internet in the US (or at least what comes up on searches performed in English language) does not want people see true face and remember atrocities that happened in many OTHER places. The degree of atrocities is suppressed "not to fuel ethnic conflict" and things were "forgotten". The only reason even Yugolsavia atrocities are still known about, is the fact of trial for war crimes. Most of these situations in other regions, however, had never been addressed by any International tribunal. They are forgotten, as if never happened. So, living in the West, in a privileged nice area like good parts of Frisco, may feel like living in a warm yoga room, and having your future guaranteed....good luck with this guarantee. It's OK, myself, I never thought these things could happen next to me too.

In the meanwhile, the real world is governed by "claws vs. steel" thing and will be governed this way forever (due to humans having 99% of DNA in common with chimps, probably...and chimps being extremely violent and cruel creatures towards own species...). Those yupster/neohippie/progressives who're trying to ban guns from their 3K/month frisco apartments....will possibly wish one day they had gun with that ONE LAST bullet...for themselves...if mobs go after them in their house and to atrocious things to them, if the Law fails.
(my former Tahoe landlord's house, btw, had suffered home invasions twice, in Bay area and SAME individuals invaded his house both time...this guy is now a gun instructor...he's a millionaire, but still works as a gun instructor...seeing the thugs enter his home while he was crouched shivering in the attic was a life changing experience)

People who thinks that their Big Nanny government will be protecting them everywhere and forever, are really stupid...They want every one, especially women--and women first and foremost, as they hate them--to be victims of daily street violence, be forced to submit to the violence of street thugs and possibly want this entire country/democracy to submit to some tyranny, eventually. I think anti-gun people are very dangerous...they are the ones who smile and apologize to thugs who attack them, and walk by and run when others are being attacked.

Also, if US fails as a country and democracy and plunges into civil unrest, there'll be no "big Uncle" to come and stop violence anymore (as in "sending peace-making troops" aka bombing the hell out of all in sight). There'll be no big Uncle to send humanitarian aid to them, to even provide something to eat...as big Uncle itself had failed. Who will come to your aid? China? haha...Where will you flee if your own country fails...you'll have nowhere to go. China will you use as slave in rice fields, may be.

Anyway, assault weapons and Korea town:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2972256/posts
http://freedomoutpost.com/2012/12/hey-lefties-heres-an-example-of-the-need-for-assault-rifles/

This is a good one (Koreatown):
"Additionally, it was reported that 200 police uniforms had been stolen and according to a Korean radio announcer at the time, "We cannot trust a person just because they are wearing a uniform."

"On the second day of the riots, the police had abandoned much of Koreatown"




They're gonna take the guns from cold dead hands, you know...luckily there're still sane people in this country and they won't let this happen. Armed citizens here is the ONLY protection against some tyrant hoarding people up in camps and overall mayhem, trust me.




Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 3, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
California is one state. I guess this might limit guns to criminals without the means to hit up a gun show in the next state

Peace

Karl
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 3, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
Karl,

It's illegal to buy a gun in a state where you do not reside, whether at a gun show or anywhere else.

So you can't just go to a different state, buy a gun, and bring it back to California without being a felon.

You can't even move here from a different state, and bring with you any non-California compliant guns you may have legally owned before, without being a felon.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 3, 2013 - 02:15pm PT
So you guys support the california laws with these background check restrictions that most other states don't have and which the NRA strongly resists?

Peace

lar;
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 3, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
No. The California gun laws, where they differ with our neighboring states, are both ineffective and asinine.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Nov 3, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
Antigun terrorists...from da cold dead hands they'll take the guns, that's for sure. Most of them think of them selves as of some kind of "world's elite" and live this kind of lifestyle and think their privileged selves as untouchable by common man's problems. The funniest of things is how the 2nd bastion of democracy (Western Europe) is quickly becoming Muslim...Constitution vs. Quran I'm afraid sharia court will have only one opinion...
The whole antigun drivel reminds me of "vegan dogs" subject and other nonsense, etc, a perversion of spoiled indoctrinated "progressive" mind.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 3, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
So it would be fair to say that you'd support gun laws (or lack of gun laws) where mental patients and criminals could buy guns without checks at gun shows or online.

(Not saying what's right or wrong, just checkin)

Peace

Karl
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Nov 3, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
It's already illegal everywhere in the country for a criminal or a mental patient to possess a gun.

It's also illegal to sell a gun to a criminal or a mental patient, in all fifty states.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Nov 3, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
I lived in and drove a rig out of San Bernardino during the Rodney King riots. The racial tensions were sky-high in San Berdo for weeks surrounding the verdict. At one point I opened my door to go out to my car to get to work, and four black dudes were just hanging out on and around my car. I called over, "I need to get to work. Can I get to my car?" Nothing provocative at all. I was as low-key and even humble in my request as possible, not wanting to start any trouble.

They started yelling all sorts of vile crap and dared me to come on down.

I went back inside, got my .357, and my friend grabbed his shotgun. We opened the door again and stepped out just enough to show that we had firepower, and I said, "Look, all I want is to get to work. I'm not starting any sh|t, but if you want some, then let's get to it."

Instant dispersal!

My friend watched my back from the doorway while I got into my car and went to work. I drove my rig armed.

The alternative? Call the cops? What a JOKE! The cops had more to deal with during that period than they POSSIBLY could, and anybody that lived in the Inland Empire during that time knows what I mean. The idea that the Nanny State is going to give you the protection you need, even in a fairly "low key" riot situation is living in a fantasy land! And if things really go bad, even the National Guard isn't going to save your butt.

I'll keep the ability to protect myself and my own family, thank you very much. And here in Colorado, the sheriffs all agree with this basic perspective. Law enforcement's job is made EASIER by a responsible and armed citizenry (and the percentage of nut-jobs remains very small, even though the base population keeps growing).

So, I got to work and am alive today to talk about it. Others from that time did and are not. And that's just one of several such stories I could tell.
WBraun

climber
Nov 3, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
"I went back inside, got my .357, and my friend grabbed his shotgun.
We opened the door again and stepped out just enough to show that we had firepower,"

LOL Hahaha

Watch the supertopo wingnut anti-gun nuts go crazy now.

Stupid anti-gun nuts have no clue what's really going on .....
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Nov 3, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
Nice post Tioga. Karl, there is no "gun show loophole" in this "North of you" next state over. Regardless, it only shows your ignorance on this subject. I know you to be a good person. I ask you to look deeply at only 2 things.

1st) Examine Mexico, the "next state over" the other direction. They put heavy restrictions on gun ownership and essentially all but banned them. (there's an elaborate process on paper to get them that make ownership all but impossible for a normal person) Look at crime stats on both sides of the border, say, Laredo, Mx and Texas. In Texas where gun ownership is rampant, there is little gun crime compared to Mexico, where gun ownership is all but illegal, and gun crime is everywhere. They've made guns illegal except for a few. The downside of that for honest citizens is that those who have guns are rich folks, police and criminals. The Police, as it turns out, are the ones doing most of the kidnappings. These kidnappings occur a couple of times a day and are so common to be all but not reported. Disarming the honest citizens has made them victims of both the police and the criminals, who of course chose not to disarm themselves. Is this what you want? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico

2nd) Would you really want your friends, acquaintances and relatives to have NO access to guns, whereas, the politicians would still have such? For myself, I trust my friends and family much more than politicians, even though most would not know which end to point and choose to not own them. What is in your heart here, for you? Do you really want to trust only politicians?


I've found Karl, that my friends and family do not seek power for it's own sake, to go for what ever it takes to control you, whereas those who run for office more often than have this character flaw.

regards

Couch
WTF

climber
Nov 3, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
One of the first questions I ask in private party gun sales is "are you crazy".
























That's because they usually want some really stupid money for a gun that's worth half what they are asking.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Nov 3, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
Couch wrote

Nice post Tioga. Karl, there is no "gun show loophole" in this "North of you" next state over. Regardless, it only shows your ignorance on this subject. I know you to be a good person. I ask you to look deeply at only 2 things.


Come on man. I posted links about the gun show loophole, show me your knowledge by documenting your statements instead of just writing stuff.

And saying "It's illegal for mental patents and criminals to possess a gun" means little if gun shows and online sources don't check.

Look I'm not arguing for gun control, just pointing out that the existing checks (outside of california anyway) don't mean anything

peace

karl
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Nov 3, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
and more good advice..
http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ObamaGunHand.jpg
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Nov 3, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
cool picture Dave

and thanks for pointing out that President Obama did for gun rights what no President in the past 40 years has done, actually signed into law legislation increasing gun carry rights

yep, Bush would not do it and he had 8 years to do so, but President Obama did in in his first
three years

thanks to Obama, I can and DO now carry on Amtrak trains and I also can carry in National Parks
in my state with my CCL

again, thanks for pointing that out Dave
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Nov 3, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
So you can't just go to a different state, buy a gun, and bring it back to California without being a felon.

You can't even move here from a different state, and bring with you any non-California compliant guns you may have legally owned before, without being a felon.

chaz, you certainly can go to a different state. You are certainly not a felon, EXCEPT if you are caught, and found guilty in a court of law. You are not automatically a felon for simply doing it.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Nov 3, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
. I lived in and drove a rig out of San Bernardino during the Rodney King riots. The racial tensions were sky-high in San Berdo for weeks surrounding the verdict. At one point I opened my door to go out to my car to get to work, and four black dudes were just hanging out on and around my car. I called over, "I need to get to work. Can I get to my car?" Nothing provocative at all. I was as low-key and even humble in my request as possible, not wanting to start any trouble.

They started yelling all sorts of vile crap and dared me to come on down.


Lol
You really don't play well with others do you !!
Lol

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Nov 3, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
LOL

I guess I've had my share of confrontational situations I would rather not have been part of.

I guess, be it gun or drill, it's important to be packin' the appropriate caliber and be prepared to use it....

LOL
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
Nov 4, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
To anti-gun Nutjobs....
(for the record, I'm not speaking from purely theoretical standpoint of someone who never been shot at. Personally, had been shot at from AK, rifles, and heavier weapons. Had, for example, bored patrol of about 8-9 government soldiers shoot many rounds at me near my place,from AKs, just for entertainment, hitting the air and ground around me as I was running--they are bored to just shoot people directly sometimes and want to have more entertainment before they kill you, etc)

Tioga - I am sorry you had to live through that type of situation(s).
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Nov 4, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Eddie, you are an idiot. A gun dealer can't sell to a criminal or a mental patient. Hasn't been able to for years. Quit blathering.

Try some reading comprehension before you call someone an idiot. I never said they could, I never even mentioned gun dealers, but when a gun dealer sells a gun to a straw purchaser, the manufacturer, distributor and dealer not only make the same profit, but the resulting crime with that gun increases legitimate sales too, it's a twofer. How else do you explain gun manufacturers' and dealers' opposition to universal background checks, which would restrict the second-hand gun market, and stimulate purchases of new guns?

It's also illegal to sell a gun to a criminal or a mental patient, in all fifty states.


Can you really not google "federal gun ownership restrictions"?

It is completely legal in almost all states to sell a gun to a complete stranger, criminal, lunatic or otherwise. It is only illegal if you know or have reasonable reason to believe the buyer is prohibited from possessing firearms. That's a loophole big enough to drive a Mack truck full of straw-purchased guns through.

This lunatic in LAX was just exercising his constitutionally protected right to oppose the government by force that gun nuts maintain is the explicit purpose of the second amendment. They should be cheering him.

TE

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