Health Care changes

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Messages 1461 - 1480 of total 1554 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
kennyt

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 3, 2014 - 04:45pm PT
This thread is the best troll ever
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Mar 3, 2014 - 04:58pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Mar 2, 2014 - 07:06pm PT
sketch simply took a comment out of context, and made it something it wasn't.

Really?

What specifically did I take out of context, and make into something it wasn't?

I ask because your SOP is little more than echoing someone else's ad hom... even when they're wrong.

What's the basis of your criticism? Can you back it up?

I doubt it.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 3, 2014 - 05:02pm PT
Funny thing about your experience with Anthem...I've had several insurance companies over the last 10 years, and Anthem by far has been the biggest pain in the ass to deal with. Impossible to get on the phone, inept representatives with conflicting/erroneous information...they have really sucked so far.

That are all blood-suckers, no doubt. We've perhaps been lucky. I just hate being thrown back into the morass of trying to arrange something new now. I don't have spare time or blood pressure (not to mention money) to deal with all this all over again!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 3, 2014 - 05:15pm PT
I'm soooooo down with that. Though I support the idea of reform, dealing with these changes have been a hassle.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 3, 2014 - 05:47pm PT
My doctor actually just signed up for Obamacare. He has his own practice, and said that it was a little better than the plan that he was currently paying.

I'll never forget what he told me: "Insurance companies are evil."

It was posted on the first page of this thread. They make money through premiums, and their expenses are claims. It isn't hard to see where the profit motive lies. They bring in as much in premiums as possible, and they try to deny as many claims as possible. Capitalism. It works great in other areas of the economy.

It sucks when capitalism runs your healthcare, though. Sort of like the military. We would have a crappy military if we all voted on each weapons system. Can you imagine watching TV ads all of the time trying to spin the citizens into buying this fighter plane over that one?

Healthcare isn't a free market and never has been. You don't shop around for the cheapest healthcare. You shop around for the best doctor, and occasionally put off elective procedures until you have the coin. Most of the time you just pay what they bill. Have any of you had surgery and seen the bills? They are in some gibberish code.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy

Mar 3, 2014 - 02:15pm PT
I'm soooooo down with that. Though I support the idea of reform, dealing with these changes have been a hassle.

Coward.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:14pm PT
It sucks when capitalism runs your healthcare, though. Sort of like the military. We would have a crappy military if we all voted on each weapons system. Can you imagine watching TV ads all of the time trying to spin the citizens into buying this fighter plane over that one?

Healthcare isn't a free market and never has been. You don't shop around for the cheapest healthcare. You shop around for the best doctor, and occasionally put off elective procedures until you have the coin. Most of the time you just pay what they bill. Have any of you had surgery and seen the bills? They are in some gibberish code.

I'm not convinced that free-market healthcare is such a bad thing. For the most part, I've been paying my own healthcare since the early 80s. Twenty-five years ago, my premium was $33/month. $20 co-pay. $250 deductible. $2000 max out of pocket. It wasn't a big deal.

Somewhere along the way, it went in the crapper. I'm not sure if was hospitals or drug companies competing... and driving up costs. Demand for research dollars? I don't know. But there's no good reason that healthcare costs have risen so fast.

Free-market healthcare wasn't so bad 30 years ago. What happened?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:47pm PT
madbolter replied
No, I think what has become clear to the middle class at this point is that we are NOW being forced to subsidize a whole pile of people that we weren't before. And, ironically, they don't seem to want what Obumblecare is pushing.

So, WE pay more anyway, and they don't even care to sign up for it.

Who wins? The insurance companies!


You're forgetting that you never don't pay. Before we were paying in hidden ways through inflated hospital bills, higher insurance premiums, lower wages for healthcare workers and higher taxes. Take a McDonalds health care plan. What they used to offer would cover up to $10,000 of medical benefits (for a cost of $1,600/year to the employee). If that employee got any real illness of had to be admitted to an ICU for literally any reason, that cap would be hit in the first few hours of their care and all the extra costs would need to be absorbed by "the system." Under the ACA, that person actually gets health care coverage that will pay for the majority of the costs associated with acute and chronic illnesses.

You, as an employer buying low cost, moderate benefit health insurance for your employees, are relaying on that same system to absorb whatever costs your plan won't cover. The ACA says that you need to make sure they are adequately covered now and you can't push those extra costs onto everybody else. Why is it your responsibility to get your employees health coverage? I think it's a stupid system, as I've said.

You are correct that insurance companies are big winners here. The ACA actually includes provisions that actually caps health insurer's profit margins to ensure that if they overcharge their members they don't simply get to keep all the money. If you've been paying attention then you'd notice the last couple of years many Americans have gotten rebate checks from their insurance companies...mandated by "Obumblecare."

But listen, if you think a for profit insurance based healthcare finance system based on employer funded/pooled health insurance is an inefficient and insane way to pay for healthcare in our country, you aren't alone, but you won't find any sympathy from Republicans.
slabbo

Trad climber
colo south
Mar 3, 2014 - 06:58pm PT
So..how many people here had NO insurance for whatever reason ? I was a multiple pre existing condition,,can't work, no SS or medicaid..got dumped

What is the alternative to obamacare ? NOW ? maybe hit the retirement savings for $$$$ for an ECHO test ?? That goes pretty quick.

You got a spare $80 K for a new hip ?

Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
Have you had a hip replaced and settled all of your bills through an ACA policy?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:19pm PT
Sketch pondered
I'm not convinced that free-market healthcare is such a bad thing. For the most part, I've been paying my own healthcare since the early 80s. Twenty-five years ago, my premium was $33/month. $20 co-pay. $250 deductible. $2000 max out of pocket. It wasn't a big deal.

Somewhere along the way, it went in the crapper. I'm not sure if was hospitals or drug companies competing... and driving up costs. Demand for research dollars? I don't know. But there's no good reason that healthcare costs have risen so fast.

Free-market healthcare wasn't so bad 30 years ago. What happened?

I love this post because it spells out all the privileges of being a healthy, single male. I had a similar plan with BCBS for years as a 20-something in the early 00's and man plan crept from like $60/month to over $100 before I finally got "real" employer based insurance for my whole family. As a young, healthy male you and I were basically pure profit for insurance companies who could entice us with cheap premiums and peace of mind, knowing full well that we could be dropped if we ever got actually sick. Anyone who was older, a woman, had a preexisting condition or developed a chronic illness enjoyed none of the perceived benefits of "free market" health insurance as you described it. The "free market" they got meant they paid higher premiums, had coverage for their conditions exempted from their plans or simply couldn't find insurance at all.

It's similar to a white guy in Alabama saying "I don't see what the fuss was all about there were plenty of seats at the front of the bus back in the 60's." And yes I realize that's not a perfect analogy and no I'm not calling you racist.


sketch further queried
Have you had a hip replaced and settled all of your bills through an ACA policy?

You do realize there is no Obamacare call center taking your claim, right? It's the same old crappy insurance company but with more rules about the kinds of plans they can offer mandated under the ACA.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:20pm PT
Free-market healthcare wasn't so bad 30 years ago. What happened?

You got old.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:30pm PT
Dave beat me to it...but what the hell:


"Twenty-five years ago, my premium was $33/month. $20 co-pay. $250 deductible. $2000 max out of pocket. It wasn't a big deal."

And then you got older.


"But there's no good reason that healthcare costs have risen so fast."

Except that you got older.



"Free-market healthcare wasn't so bad 30 years ago. What happened?"

You guessed it....you got older.
kennyt

Trad climber
Oregon
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:41pm PT
I got a f*#ked diagnosis last May and I'm pretty sure my old policy would have canceled me somehow if not for the new rules thanks to Obamacare. Anthem blue cross has never denied anything and they're into me for about 300k now and at least three more expensive surgeries to go. My families policy went up 200 bucks a month but oh well.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Mar 3, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
Sorry that you are ill, kenny and I'm glad you are getting good coverage. Your policy also hasn't risen due to your illness (thanks, Obamacare!).
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Mar 3, 2014 - 08:15pm PT
You guys say it's all about me getting older.

I just looked for a similar policy. The best I found was $150/mo. 100% out of pocket for first $1250. 50% co-pay up to $5000.

This is not nearly as good the policy from my younger days. Also, the new policy doesn't know about the plate in my hip and other related issues.

I get what you're all saying about getting older. I just think a policy similar to what I had would cost a boatload more to a healthy 20 something.
Sketch

Trad climber
H-ville
Mar 3, 2014 - 08:17pm PT
One other thing:

Thanks for keeping it civil.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Mar 3, 2014 - 08:22pm PT
I'm not convinced that free-market healthcare is such a bad thing. For the most part, I've been paying my own healthcare since the early 80s. Twenty-five years ago, my premium was $33/month. $20 co-pay. $250 deductible. $2000 max out of pocket. It wasn't a big deal.

Somewhere along the way, it went in the crapper. I'm not sure if was hospitals or drug companies competing... and driving up costs. Demand for research dollars? I don't know. But there's no good reason that healthcare costs have risen so fast.

Free-market healthcare wasn't so bad 30 years ago. What happened?

I've been buying my own insurance of the past 10 years or so.
Other than the freaking tax code which allows employers to buy their employees health insurance tax free but doesn't provide the self-employed the same benefit, it hasn't been so bad.

Until Obamacare.
Premiums took a big jump last year--went from high-but-sorta-manageable to really freaking high.
Obamacare may be the straw-that-broke-the-camel's back for some of us (those that don't get health care from big daddy government or employer).
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 3, 2014 - 08:31pm PT
It's not only that you are older, it is also that the level of care that people expect has risen and the number of treatment options has increased.

A while back I saw a TV news show that compared the cost of prescription drugs today vs. 1970 or so. They used one elderly woman in an anecdote and cited the high cost of all her prescriptions.

What the show failed to mention was that, of the five or so drugs she was taking, three of them didn't even exist in 1970 (I recall one of the drugs was Lipitor, which went on the market in 1996.)

It's like saying that computers are becoming more expensive because the percentage of household income that is spent on computers is higher today than it was in 1984.

We can't expect healthcare in 2014 to cost the same as it did in 1984 because healthcare is not the same as it was in 1984.

Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 3, 2014 - 08:35pm PT
VERY IMPORTANT POST

Let it be known that I received an email from Sketch in which he stated that I had not "lied"when I said that I had never called President Bush "Dubya".

Sketch not only stated this but also apologized to me for calling me a liar.

I have to say that damn few people are as stand up as Sketch demonstrated to me.

He and I probably will continue to disagree on some things but I respect him, period.
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