keep tahoe Bold.

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Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 12, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
less bolts are better than more.

walk off.

place from stance.

run it out.

explore what you are made off,
and future generations may inherit the
opportunity to argue with evolution.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 12, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
may ur nuts keep u safe
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Aug 12, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
Word
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Aug 13, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
Credit: Salamanizer
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Aug 13, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
walk off.

The Gunks has had established rappel routes for the last 10 or 15 years that usually go right through good climbs. The walk off trails on the ridge are now overgrown in a lot of places. I hate this. My daughter and I were on a classic 5.5 two summers ago and I was belaying her up the first pitch when a couple of dipsh1ts throw their lines down right on top of me. They rap down, clip my gear at the belay and proceed to pull their ropes and run them for the last rappel. All of this with hardly a "do you mind?" and they fully expected me to tell them to continue on with my daughter climbing up the pitch.

Fvck them. I told them to hold their horses and wait for my daughter to finish the pitch. I thought they were going to sh1t their Patagonia climbing panties while they were waiting.

The Gunks are really beginning to wear thin on me... and I haven't even been drinking.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 13, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
Walking off most climbs will cause far more environmental damage than grid bolting 90 foot wall.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 13, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
Perhaps...

But which causes more damage to our masculinity?
Blizzard

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:25am PT
"Walking off most climbs will cause far more environmental damage than grid bolting 90 ft wall"

Yah but doesn't driving your car to the crag do more environmental damage than both. a good trail helps prevent the damage known as erosion. all i know is I would rather walk off a bold climb than rap a grid bolted one. I agree with norweigan we need to start putting up bolder routes in and around tahoe area. trad ground up. however I don't mind convenience anchors for certain crags unless the walkoff is convenient as well. I disagree with the top rope bolts aka convenience anchors at 90ft but agree with the convenience anchors at woodfords. to me bolted anchors means more climbing less walking. i like convenience at crags if it means i get to climb more routes.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:32am PT
But which causes more damage to our masculinity?

I have more than enough masculinity to go around.

Yah but doesn't driving your car to the crag do more environmental damage than both.

Doesn't matter. Once you are there you either rap a route you just climbed, or you thrash the vegetation and cause erosion scrambling down the gullies.

a good trail helps prevent the damage known as erosion.

If there is a good trail... which there most often is not.

all i know is I would rather walk off a bold climb than rap a grid bolted one.

Great... good for you... do it... have fun. But expecting everyone else to do what you would rather is a bit lame... especially when it causes more destruction than the alternative.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
i only solo naked during a full moon using no chalk or climbing shooz.
burntheman

Trad climber
slt
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
KEEP TAHOE FREE OF SALAMANIZER
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Keep Tahoe Blonde.

Eric
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
Rap routes at areas where there are not or have not had rap routes makes the place more dangerous the added danger of rock fall and noobs coming off the ends of ropes
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
the only issue with the ethics of climbing nekid is my balls are so huge, they sometimes get chafed by rock abrasion.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
duct tape
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
Weird all the references to 90' wall. The anchors are good there as it is mostly a place for top roping, and plenty of people go there to learn the sport or teach others. It's also a good place practice trad and get a first lead in. Rapelling down is easy and rarely affects others, and walking off causes no to little erosion since it's all on rock. It's also one of many areas in eagle canyon each of which offers different types of climbs (mayhem cove all sport, eagle lake cliffs a mix of sport and trad, and eagle creek trad with top roping options, eagles nest trad with anchors, plus the multi-pitch routes).
I understand the arguments here, just not sure why 90' is being mentioned, unless someone has been placing bolts there.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 14, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Actually, I think there is two references to 90' wall. And I just threw 90' out because sport climbers I know are usually surprised that it isn't grid bolted... which would cause some Tahoe climbers to sh#t their pants in a fit of rage. Not saying it should be bolted, just saying it could have been... and it would not have increased the ecological impact one bit... in fact, it may be more ecological. And yes, there is erosion in the gully people use to access the anchors... and yes, it is affecting the vegetation.

MORE IMPORTANTLY: there is a large dead snag ready to launch off the top and onto the ledge above the climbs to the left. Doesn't look at all stable, so be careful up there.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
That large snag is nowhere near going, and walking up it is what keeps the non-rock part of the gully from seeing any erosion (or would if everyone did it). I will say that the snag does add a little danger as I have had gear catch on the branches when moving to set anchors.
taking this pic of my friend maggie rappelling down last friday i was sitting on the end of the log. at this point it is super stable
Credit: i'm gumby dammit

i definitely don't want to see it grid bolted either, but i think the top anchors are a big plus even if it does make it more crowded. keeps the crowds down elsewhere.
DataMind

Social climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
Soon Tahoe will become a convenience-latent "adventure" land, were all you'll need is a rope on a few biners. Unless the locals take matters into their own hands.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
Whatever you say gumby.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
sorry if i offended you, but the log is nowhere near 'ready to launch'. you could yard on it all you want it's not gonna budge at this point.


but back on topic, what is the reason for this topic? is there bolting going on recently somewhere or just someone throwing salt in old wounds? pretty much everywhere i go there is either pro or bolts, but rarely both. course i haven't been around long.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 14, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
You didn't offend me. I only go to 90' about once every couple years. The snag seemed unstable to me and others when I was there about a month ago, with a big break about 1/4 of the way from the top. There were several families below, so I didn't test it... but I'm pretty sure I could send it with a little effort.

I think Wegi is just bored.
Blizzard

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 14, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
what is the boldest route in tahoe? which routes set the bar for bold?
Lambone

Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
Aug 14, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Keep
Tahoe
Woo

who's with me?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 14, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
what is the boldest route in tahoe? which routes set the bar for bold?

Anything at Luther Spires.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 14, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
The Gunks has had established rappel routes for the last 10 or 15 years that usually go right through good climbs. The walk off trails on the ridge are now overgrown in a lot of places. I hate this.

I totally agree. I learned to climb at The Gunks, and the walk off was always beautiful. It never occurred to us to rap. I mean, why would someone want to do a thing like that?

A few years ago I was back climbing with Williams, Holtkamp and Yoho (boy was that an interesting posse,) and there were all these rap routes. There were people dangling all over the place.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
what is the boldest route in tahoe? which routes set the bar for bold?
the unnamed bolted chimney at eagle lake. some of the bolts are almost 5' apart.
Laine

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Aug 14, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
What does every climb have to be bold?
Why the assumption that Tahoe was bold to begin with?

I think there are/were a lot of bold climbers who climb in Tahoe, but a lot of Tahoe's rock has great cracks and a lot of the trad routes are not bold, but moderate and well-protectable. Similarly sport areas like Big Chief have well-protected clip-up routes that have been around quite a while. Like most areas I've ever been to, there are some bold climbs and a lot of less-than-bold routes. You pick your poison.

This idea seems a very elitist and unrealistic view of the area, imo.
Laine

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
You've further my point, Ron. Jay Smith and others have put up many bold routes in more areas than just Tahoe. Their perception of what a route should be shaped the climb, not the rock itself. They also didn't put up routes in specific walls in these areas because it didn't live up to their level of what they wanted to climb. Yet others did - and now Tahoe has a variety of routes, both well-protected by any standards as well as heady test-pieces.

I still fail to see the logic.

jghedge

climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:21pm PT

"walk off."


The tops of most sport crags never get touched except by the developers.

Bolt anchors are more impact than trails from the top back down to the base?

No.

Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
Bolt anchors are more impact than trails from the top back down to the base?

That, like most things to do with climbing is entirely situational. There are plenty of areas where walk-offs cause all sorts of problems like erosion, rockfall, damage to delicate plants and intrusion on wildlife to name a few. There are other areas, and I would include The Gunks, where the walk-offs are beautiful and pose no such problems. Unless eating handfuls of wild blueberries on the way down is damaging to the environment.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
^ says a guy who no longer climbs
jghedge

climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:41pm PT

"That, like most things to do with climbing is entirely situational."


Inarguably though, lowering off/rapping causes far less impact (basically none) compared to walking off, except in the rare circumstance when you're walking on bare rock the entire way.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
at shakespeare rock, some are bold (not really yet though)
Credit: i'm gumby dammit


and others are bowld
jasmyn gets buzzed by angry owl
jasmyn gets buzzed by angry owl
Credit: i'm gumby dammit
jghedge

climber
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:44pm PT


"whilst the approaches usually wind up causing major change eh..?"


What alternatives do you suggest for the approaches?

i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
don't think i got on it. pretty much everything i got on there is here - http://www.aboutlaketahoe.com/climbing/shakespeare-rock.htm
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 14, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
Weedge was just trolling anyway.

But, yeah, I've never climbed at Shakespeare rock. I'm not a fan of choss. I'm sure the FA's were bold endeavors, that pile looks like it would fall over if you sneezed on it.

Bold is new highball problems with no one else watching, a long way from the road.

Bold is soloing something you've never seen before. Again, with no one else watching, a long way from the road.

Boldness manifests itself in many ways.

Tahoe climbing is bold, some people just choose not to spray.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 04:09pm PT
There is some good rock there amongst the choss
Laine

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Aug 14, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
I think we should strive to Keep Tahoe Classic, by preserving our gems in their natural state (or unnatural state - whatever the case maybe) and continuing the develop new routes that meet the level of awesomeness already established. The old and bold should be left as is because there is so much potential for new iconic lines. And while not every cliff needs to be climbed, expanding the area's ecosystem services like climbing is good for us all.

But I think bolts and bold can live in that world.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Aug 14, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
chop every other bolt on alot of sport routes will be a good start to keeping tahoe bold.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Aug 14, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
And it's hi ho hey, I am a bold marauder
And it's hi ho hey, I am the white destroyer
For I will show you silver and gold, and I will bring you treasure
I will wave a widowing flag, and I will be your lover
And I will show you grotto and cave and sacrificial alter
And I will show you blood on the stone and I will be your mentor
And night will be our darling and fear will be our name
--Words of Richard Farina

And I will place no more bolts on your bumps
And I will laugh at the results this may have
If anyone chooses to listen
--Words of guess who
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Aug 14, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
KEEP TAHOE FREE OF BURNTHEMAN AND HIS TOP DOWN GRID BOLTING NEXT TO CRACKS POSER FRIENDS.

If you're going to baselessly talk sh#t, at least have the balls to back it up with your real identity. I'll be in Tahoe on Saturday, we can discuss this face to face if you'd like...


Back on to topic:

Keep Tahoe Bold isn't some argument for bolt chopping and endless debates about ethics etc...
Laine nailed it down the best. It's about preserving the classic routes and the unique character of each climbing area while at the same time striving to meet the highest standards for new route in each area.
That may be awesome well protected and well thought out bolt protected sport climbing areas free of chipping, glueing and squeeze jobs, or balls out zero fixed gear, R/X routes protected only by ones own faith in ability with gnarly bush whacking epic fest walk offs. Each area is unique, every route it's own entity.

Keeping Tahoe Bold is about preserving the awesomeness of Tahoe, and really the whole of climbing by respecting local standards, choosing routes based on aesthetics and not just because it can be climbed, preserving those aesthetics by not grid bolting, retro-bolting or excessive cleaning etc... Realizing that each situation is unique and we should consciously stop and think objectively, even critically of our own decisions and motivations before we choose to take any action.

There is enough room for everyone and routes that represent their individual vision so long as we care to look beyond ourselves.

So keep it Big, keep it Bold, keep it Aesthetic and keep it Badass!
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Aug 14, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
How long is the 90' wall? It looks very scenic up there. Kind of like Skaha but maybe nicer
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Aug 14, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
He doesn't climb...? He's not cool..! Random Coolzip...
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
choosing routes based on aesthetics and not just because it can be climbed, preserving those aesthetics by not grid bolting, retro-bolting or excessive cleaning etc.
i often wonder about that when i look at this part of shakespeare rock
giegs

climber
Tardistan
Aug 14, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
I've been surprised at how easy it is to avoid people around here. Been climbing here for the last month and haven't had any issues really. Super easy to avoid people and do your own thing at areas that don't seem to get much traffic. 90foot is that little crag to the right of Lost In Space, right? Sugarloaf is lovely. Thanks for the hospitality and not straying too far from the (exceptionally) beaten path I suppose.

Back to Flagstaff in the morning. Might be back in a couple weeks.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
the old dudes who ran it out are the shite.
every single one that i meet authors eyes that
speak.

you whom qualify yourself
with diluted courage got no stare.

it's quite simple.
and that is the best message.

keep your ill prepared hands off our mountains,
or else we'll kindly remind you of your cowardice
with blank rock where blank rock belongs.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
no way brandon i was not trolling
i don't even know what that is,
i was simply sharing a sentiment that i strongly
believe in and uphold.

the beauty and opportunity of our crags is not infinite
and must be respected with a light
(read: bold) passage by all patrons.

ours is not a convenient medium.
never it was, and suitors looking
for easy wisdom need to seek elsewhere,
like the indoor go-cart track or something.

there's tons of those around.
and the chicks dig dudes whom can sit there
and pivot their bold ankles.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
90foot is that little crag to the right of Lost In Space, right?
Yes, and lost in space is also the name of one of the routes at 90'. a thin face that needs bolts....
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
^^ This is hell of an owl... looks like a demon. Probably the best picture ever posted here. I'm going to be haunted in my sleep by this. Looks like it's about to land on her head, look like "Birds" horror movie
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 14, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
a moment after that it actually extended it's talons as if to grab her (or the dog, which is what they really didn't like) and then turned upward. here is a shot of it overhead
Credit: i'm gumby dammit
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:36am PT
Keeping Tahoe Bold is about preserving the awesomeness of Tahoe, and really the whole of climbing by respecting local standards...

Alright, how many here are Tahoe locals?



...




That's what I thought.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:46am PT
I've been here 20+ years. 3 kids born at Barton. Does that count?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:50am PT
Sure does!
portent

Social climber
your mom's house
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:55am PT
God, this is a whiny thread!!

You should all meet and have a battle royal at 90 Foot Wall!!

Except for Wes and Ron, you two should just screw and get it over with!! ;)
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 08:59am PT
Carson ain't Tahoe.
Footloose

Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:02am PT
gumby,
http://www.aboutlaketahoe.com/climbing/shakespeare-rock.htm

Interesting site, is it yours?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:03am PT
So we have established Ron isn't a Tahoe local.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:20am PT
Everyone knows that Ron. Everyone also knows, if you live off the hill, if you drive UPHILL to get to the lake, you don't live in Tahoe.
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Fuk a goldfisn and save the lake. Keep tahoe gold.
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:27am PT
Dr. Christ... I'm local... and so is WEEEG.

Local is defined by the dedicated users of the area.
If you live in Tahoe and climb 15 times a year.... Your not a local. Jus sayin'
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:28am PT
Now El Dorado Hills is Tahoe too?
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:29am PT
see above, I edited
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:38am PT
I will be sure to tell all my neighbors, many of whom were born here, that they are not locals because they don't climb enough.
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:41am PT
OMG, your such a contrarian!

In regards to local climbing ethics.... You're correct, they are NOT locals.

Are you trying to be annoying? Is this a craft your practicing?
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:43am PT
Yes Footloose it is mine.
Footloose

Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:58am PT
gumby, cool!

Looks like you've been busy!

As you're probably already aware, Wrights and Woodfords link to Luther.
Still a work in progress?

Inspiring site photos!
In fact, I just may visit Shakespeare today or tomorrow,
so thanks.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:13am PT
Yeah, still a work in progress. the Luther spires page was the template for the section so any incomplete pages still link there. i have enough content to do everything but woodfords and the loaf, just trying to find the time to write it all, climb, work my real job and spend time with the kids is tough. and the dogs take up as much time as the kids dammit.
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:15am PT
^^^^^^^^^
Sell the kids.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:15am PT
now claiming to be the "ol man of tahoe"...

When did I claim that, Mr. Carson?

they are not locals because they don't climb enough.

In regards to local climbing ethics.... You're correct, they are NOT locals.

Interesting. So how many times a week does someone who was born in Tahoe and who has been climbing for 10 years need to climb before they are considered a local climber? And if they have lived and/or climbed here for 20 years but have lately only been getting out once a month, do they lose their local status?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:46am PT
Rong, every time I piss in the woods, it goes into YOUR drinking water.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:53am PT
Damn, locals sho gotta know a lot of bullshit! I'm glad I'm just a local here on Mother Earth, maaaaaaaaan.

As far as Tahoe goes, it's pretty awesome. I even get a Dirk Diggler for Lake Bigler.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 11:05am PT
Yeah, if I were a CARSON CITY local I'd "know" (rather think) that. But in fact, ya'll use ground water out there... ground water that originated UP HERE.

But when I leave Tahoe and head down to THE VALLEY, I only piss on Mcllelans.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 15, 2013 - 11:12am PT
christ, no one on the site is more HARDCORE than the Ronski. The Stonededmasters bow to him in all his glory.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 15, 2013 - 11:50am PT
Just a mental picture of that owl taking off with a dog...
Pie

Trad climber
So-Cal
Aug 15, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
Keep Tahoe Woo! SF and Hwood Woo!
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 15, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
I've seen a guy pee in his own mouth. Didn't even have to pay. Reminds me of this thread for some reason....
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 15, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
Keep spraying, old and "bold". Chances are high I won't see you at the crags the next coupla days. Chances are even higher you'll be shaking your angry little dribbles out here as usual. How bold.

I guess I can come back and invent a bolt number for what I'm about to climb just like you did with that Calaveras climb? That'd be bold!

Don't let me get in the way of your pissing contest though, you and Wes are providing much needed moisture to the mountains.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
Just saw a sticker: Keep Tahoe Washoe

Liked it
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 15, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
Well, if you ain't white or if you have a hint of accent, you will never be a local to Tahoe, even if you live there for 50 years, right?
WML

climber
Edge of the Electric Ocean Beneath Red Rock
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Local blah blah blah...whatever.

Old school, bold school, new school, nude school...respect the rock, respect the previous work, and respect local ethics. Not terribly complex.

For areas with conflicting local ethos, then figure it out. If you feel like you "shouldn't" be doing something, then you probably should not.

And don't rap bolt at Woodfords. Wait, is Woodfords considered Tahoe? It's down the hill...is it part of the proper Tahoe basin geographically?



HMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Aug 15, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
I am here to post in this very important thread.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 05:47am PT
i don't expect to change the minds and hearts of
the established aspect of our flock whom deem that
more bolts are justified;

but i do hope to provide a perspective for
the up-and-comers whom are entering this domain
with curious inquisition, and innocence;

we are their immediate predecessors, with scrutinous
eyes upon us.

i am thankful for the likes of Salamanizer who
lightens his foot in the mountains, by asking
more of his Body and Soul,

and in doing so upholds the unspoken commandment:

(that was / is scribed in stone by heroes like robbins, bachar, smith, crawford, sumner, and other tahoe suitors that comprise our heritage)

travel thru while minimizing your wake, and thus communicate your
respect and adoration of our vertical environment.

continually ask more of yourself as a climber: tap new wells of
courage, creativity and resolve when you build your sollution to
the infinite riddles of the mountain.

dont just pound stakes admiring your sparks when stimied or scared.
Branscomb

Trad climber
Lander, WY
Aug 16, 2013 - 08:41am PT
I can't say I've always risen to my best in boldness, as Vardanega and Don Garrett can testify, but my best memories of climbing are when I did manage to commit to doing it or else.

My take is that when we chip holds to make it possible for our feeble abilities or bolt up something that maybe doesn't need it, but we do it because we're afraid, well those things are a permanent thing. It will never be the same as when we first found and dreamed it.

If for whatever reasons in our heads we alter it to bring it into our ability, then we take away from the future generations of climbers the magic of seeing that stone and maybe doing it in a style that does make for the kind of memories I have of the best climbs I have done.

That's the big rip-off to my mind, to take away that opportunity from future generations just so I can have head rush today. We need to have a bigger sense of responsibility when we consider our actions and not just think it's about mememe.

RonV

Trad climber
Placerville
Aug 16, 2013 - 08:51am PT
but i do hope to provide a perspective for
the up-and-comers whom are entering this domain
with curious inquisition, and innocence;

Well said Chuck.


Bob, you ARE my hero.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Aug 16, 2013 - 09:03am PT
Tahoe. Where Gaks dont stray too far from the homogenized and repetitive boring roadside crags. There is still adventure and solitude for those that care to leave their guidebooks at home!
the maggiewand
the maggiewand
Credit: Stewart Johnson
Indian rock
Indian rock
Credit: Stewart Johnson
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 09:46am PT
Just to be clear, I haven't claimed to be a local anywhere since 2002. And I certainly don't advocate adding bolts to existing lines, unless done with the FA's blessing (or in some cases the overwhelming consensus of the community).

the sport routes i put up have zero cred in my memory banks.

Isn't Led Zep Arete a spurt climb? Seems you were kind of fond of that one. I know others really enjoyed it. What about Lightning Dream? If I recall that is another stellar spurt climb. You may not have put it up, but clearly it is a worthy spurt climb.

They were just more bolted face climbs.

So, you just piss bolts all over a rock face like it was a $2 throw away whore... and then preach to others about sound ethics and respect for the rock? You ever consider a career as an actual preacher and/or politician?

Once done there was no celebrations really. Just the day was over and another bolted face climb added.

And it was okay for you to do because you just didn't care... but it is not okay for some kid to do it these days because we NEED to keep Tahoe "bold?"

In all honesty, I'm just trying to understand the double standard here... you guys could do it because it was the '80's and you were young... but young climbers these days can't do it because they have to keep it bold, because you said so?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:02am PT
So with your 20/20 hindsight you think you should not have bolted those faces and want to pass that wisdom onto the younger generations? That is so sweet. But what if they see a face that just looks fun to climb and just want to bolt it so they can climb it... which I assume is what you did. Are you saying they shouldn't do it and the climbing community should not condone it?

To return the kind gesture/wisdom, should someone climb all your bolted faces with natural pro and pull the bolts to keep them more "pure" and "bold?"
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:11am PT
Another way to look at it could be, 'Would your hindsight be the same if your previous foresight had been different?'
In other words, why deny the current generation the ability gain hindsight on their own, through their own actions and experiences like you did.
Blizzard

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:17am PT
Heylo peoples,
since this is a keep tahoe bold thread i was wondering if you guys got any tips for climbing trad routes ground up? Im young and dumb and have never had a mentor in climbing. I came from the beach to the mtns and learned climbing with books, trials, and tribulations. I've pulled off some widow makers and chopped a rope before and figured trying to learn on my own is not only dangerous to me but the partners i sandbag into joining me. tHat doesnt mean i am going to stop doing it, it just means i am gonna think more and seek advice before doing it again. So far I have learned basic common sense stuff like keep your belayer out of the rock fall zone. have the follower trundle the big stuff. throw small rocks on the wall away from da crag. place loose rock on a ledge if it is available. Yes i understand that i know nothing. Just seeking advice here. I am wondering about tag lines and their pros and cons also. Thanks for all the insight you guys provide.

-Bruce McIntosh
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:22am PT
What gumby said.

if you can climb a route like "snot" on natural gear, ill pull the bolts with my teeth for you.

Interesting... never heard of it. Another face you sprayed bolts on that meant nothing to you?
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:30am PT
pffft! that was like rap down bolting inside a crack
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:53am PT
I love it when old people think they get to decide what climbing (or anything else) is all about for younger generations. Reminds me of my grandpa telling me the reason driving fast was so fun was the fear of death and the need for complete focus... something you just don't get with seat belts and modern cars.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:53am PT
yeah I definitely wasn't talking about pissing on someone else's work, just leaving open the ability to explore and develop new areas to keep that part of the adventure alive.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:56am PT
leaving open the ability to explore and develop new areas to keep that part of the adventure alive.

As long as it meets the old guard's definition of "bold."
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 11:02am PT
As long as it meets the old guard's definition of "bold."

i'd argue that bold is timeless,
and yesterday's interpretation of bold
within our discipline has not much changed.

dilution of courage over time
is something that we must counter,
else our resources go to hell.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:08am PT
old guard doesnt even like the young trads that are doing amazing things these days. cheatin, ya know. dont know exactly how, might have somethin ta do with that there plastic gym trainin.

yung uns don't even know how to do a proper hip belay. PHSST!

Is pining for the days of adventure of yore mean you are really nostaligic, or you just realize at the top shape you were in, mental and physical, you really suck by today's standards?

Get off ma lawn ya lilly-livered young punks!
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:19am PT
Where do V-hard boulder problems, some highball, fall on the bold continuum?

The pad people own the future of hard climbing in Tahoe. The golden, somewhat stylistic foggy age of roped climbing in Tahoe, is for the most part, past. See Ron's deep thread on the topic.
burntheman

Trad climber
slt
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:25am PT
Oh Sally, you almost make it sound like we have a history. I suppose a direct email wasn't enough to identify me. Perhaps a meet and greet would help the situation. Where you climbing on Saturday?

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:39am PT
Who you calling Sally?

Bryce, give a shout if you want to hit the boulders.

Ron, I'm betting you couldn't top out many of the v1's, not only because they are too hard, but because you would chicken out.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:51am PT
Sure, they all drilled a sport route here and there where they deemed them fit.

And so, that is somehow OK cuz they did it 'back in the day', but not OK now?

Back when I did drive-bys, all we had were shotguns and 22s, today these young uns are using UZIs and AKs, and thats jus not right I tell ya!
Blizzard

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:56am PT
"pad people own the future of hard climbing in tahoe"

I agree that they own the future of hard climbing in tahoe less than about 20ft off the ground most of the time less than about 12ft. However I have a friend that is bouldering v10 in tahoe and developing new problems but if he follows anyone up corrugation corner 5.7 he is scared and refuses to lead the route. what does this say about climbing hard grades such as v10? do the number grades even do justice to the climb? Bachar-Yerian is 11c r/x yet people who climb 5.13 and up do not try it. all im saying is that yeah the pad people own "hard climbing numbers" but most of the boulderers developing new areas do not test themselves on trad. Which discipline is harder does not matter to me I am not trying to claim i own hard climbing in tahoe nor the future of it. I believe all aspects of climbing will contribute to its future.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
However I have a friend that is bouldering v10 in tahoe and developing new problems but if he follows anyone up corrugation corner 5.7 he is scared and refuses to lead the route. what does this say about climbing hard grades such as v10?

Well, it sounds like that "scared" feeling is how the "old and bold" define real climbing, regardless of difficulty... so he must be doing it right.

He makes it up (or could) Corrugation Corner, following or otherwise, right? But the vast majority of those who climb Corrugation Corner will NEVER EVER make it up a v10... EVER... no matter how hard they try. He has more climbing opportunities available to him than the average trad climber, assuming he finds someone to lead, which I'm sure he can... therefore, he wins.

As for the bouldering ive done, i never once used a "pad". And ive bouldered 30 plus footers. they were prolly v.25 ers.

More likely vB-
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
exactly.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
You ASS ume

I've done Farley (didn't remember which one it was, had to look it up, clearly not THAT memorable of an experience for me). I've OS'd plenty of other tard climbs: Fracture, Taurus, OOTD, stuff I don't remember at High Energy Wall, Crystalline Dream, blah blah blah. You haven't done Upward Bound, v1... and never ever ever will... with or without pads.

So where is "snot" anyway?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
about v1, maybe v2.

You realize there are a bunch of Mitchell Canyons and Dog Valleys, right? Give me more specifics and I will go confirm the grade for you... as long as it isn't choss.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
A single person, the boulderer friend, example doesn't represent the whole group. There are definitely boulderers who can lead on gear.
Fact remains that turning a v10 boulderer into a solid 5.10 trad leader is much more plausible than a 5.10 gear leader ever sending v10, let alone v 5 or 6.

So now this discussion has evolved from trad v/ sport to trad v/ bouldering. What's next?

Ron, I said mostly over because there are exceptions, with Woodfords being the most obvious. BFE Nevada isn't Tahoe. Read deeper.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
It will always be old school "traditional" climb vs. everything else... just like it will always be old school conservative white "traditional" republicans against everyone else.

ironic old music
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 16, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
i never could climb past easy 12. 13 wasnt even a thought- i never wanted to work that hard.

... and there you have it. getting stronger does take work.

Yaniro crushed trad lines of the day then went FORWARD to sport climbing, rap bolting, hang dogging, and plastic training.

having said that, training methods common today, like plastic bouldering, were completely non-existant then, so getting stronger was logistically a lot harder.

patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 16, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
oh and without approval from this forum or years in the Valley or IC, a 100 pound woman sporto can climb multipitch 14b in the Dolomites. Long runouts on pins, cams and threads.
http://www.climbing.com/news/sasha-frees-5-14b-on-north-face-in-dolomites/
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 16, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
i chose not to hang dog crap i had no business on.

that is an arbitrary decision you and most of your generation made for yourselves, kinda like lycra.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
But i could boulder hard 5.12 no problem it the landing was doable.

V4, congratulations

edit: and wes, ive done most the stuff at the milks.

No you haven't. You may have done "most" of the stuff under v4, but that ain't "most" of what is there.
Blizzard

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 16, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
I believe john bachar bolted the first line in the gorge with rick cashner ground up. 5 bolts in 60ft. they call it pick pocket 11a. done in 88. pretty impressive huh. I'd say that is bold. sh#t.
edit:
I meant it was the first bolted line in the gorge i believe.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
im about to go all t*r on you
and delete this thread

you boys bickering about
lame ass shet
when you could be constructively
discussing bolts.

i totally didn't want my
neato thread ends up
a pissing match,
shite flinging drama bomb.

but that's what i get,

cinco, quatro, tress, dos....

...i always get stuck at dose.
Blizzard

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 16, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
Heylo peoples,
since this is a keep tahoe bold thread i was wondering if you guys got any tips for climbing trad routes ground up? Im young and dumb and have never had a mentor in climbing. I came from the beach to the mtns and learned climbing with books, trials, and tribulations. I've pulled off some widow makers and chopped a rope before and figured trying to learn on my own is not only dangerous to me but the partners i sandbag into joining me. tHat doesnt mean i am going to stop doing it, it just means i am gonna think more and seek advice before doing it again. So far I have learned basic common sense stuff like keep your belayer out of the rock fall zone. have the follower trundle the big stuff. throw small rocks on the wall away from da crag. place loose rock on a ledge if it is available. Yes i understand that i know nothing. Just seeking advice here. I am wondering about tag lines and their pros and cons also. Thanks for all the insight you guys provide. oh and i do wear a helmut.

-Bruce McIntosh
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 16, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
when you could be constructively
discussing bolts.

You're a funny guy. When has there EVER been a constructive "discussion" about bolts? In 20-something years in the game, I've never seen one. Action speaks, the rest is just wanking.

PopLockeAndDropIt

Gym climber
Hialeah, FLORIDA
Aug 16, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
Wait, wait, wait...so you're telling me that Ron Anderson has traveled more than 15 miles away from the Carson Valley?



....


Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 16, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
delete this POS thread.

Any time anyone mentions Tahoe, we get what we have here.

DELETE IT!

DMT
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Aug 16, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
A completly useless pissing match fersure.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
I believe john bachar bolted the first line in the gorge with rick cashner ground up. 5 bolts in 60ft. they call it pick pocket 11a. done in 88. pretty impressive huh. I'd say that is bold. sh#t.

Great route. No complaints on the bolt spacing. Great warm up for the harder routes to the right. LK finished a project just right of it that day... 12c I think he said? Starts around where the "t" is in this photo. Looked techy. Hey, look at that, there is a wall in Owens I would actually go back to!!





When has there EVER been a constructive "discussion" about bolts?
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 16, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
When Ron gets called on his tired BS, it is suddenly a pissing match?

Keep it classy ST
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Aug 16, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
yes, please. tuolumne was good to me, and now I see that in fact I do agree.
jghedge

climber
Aug 16, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
Pickpocket is a G-Rated sport climb

Is somebody trying to claim otherwise, because it was lead-bolted? Haha
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
ah it is not completely useless, this thread.
some folks get their jocks in a knot,
that'll always be the case regarding
bolts.

the value in this thread is that
the young eyes upon us will
inherit the vitrol passion that
accompanies our pursuit.

i am a father,
and one thing i've learned as such,
is that i cannot assume that maturing
individuals know what i deem as common.

the young folk need to see,
again and again that bolts are
to be fiercely considered before placing,
and that many people in the community
feel strongly,
one way or another about the bolt's presence
and validity.

these repeated exposures to bolt discussions
contribute to future suitor's ethical
positions.

much like (gag) politics.

so i'm merely stating, and living out
a point of view that i hope
others will consider.

when they choose their stance on the issue.

i merely and strongly believe
that those whom overuse bolts are
hasty in their pursuit of self-worth and meaning,
and lack the patience and discipline to
allow a route it's rightful birth,
which should arrive according to
some level of low impact.

now this is debatable. gee really!
because young honnold could come and free-solo
my prospective line and then claim the first ascent,
and all future suitors must strap on
those set of balls to experience the route.

that's beyond me and my ethics,
but i hope for a medium ground between
that example and the opposite
of lowering down a face on a rope
and boshe-ing your way into the history books.

keep tahoe bold.
bold is better than compromise.

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 16, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
the opposite
of lowering down a face on a rope
and boshe-ing your way into the history books.

What about lowering down a face on a rope and drilling a handful of bolts that will be used by many happy people to safely explore movement in the vertical world?
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 16, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
Well written Norweegin. Keep it as real as absolutely possible, but give an aspiring on-sightest(is that a word) a chance at sending. Dank
Aki J

Trad climber
Placerville, CA
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
the young eyes upon us will inherit the vitrol passion that accompanies our pursuit.

As far as I can tell, many do.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2013 - 05:45am PT
christ you got me all tangled up,
i see your logic, but i have
to conclude that ours is not a grounds of convenience.

there are plenty of saturated mediums
within our culture that offer
convenience and hyper-safety
to suitors.

gyms.
main street sidewalks.
malls.
amusement parks.
indoor race arenas.
on and on.

boldness should distinguish climbing
from the more common outdoor pursuits
like shooting guns, or four-wheeling,
or dirtbiking - all of which require
very little imagination, resolve, and
tallent of participants.

this may sound trite and self-absorbing
and i completely realize that i am
at the mercy of my hell-bound culture,
and bolts will come faster that
they can be removed.

we are a run down populace,
with less and less life inside us
at each generation.

but it's still satisfying to
make proud verbal stands,
as well as diligent, though lite
strides in the mountains

i think of redwoods and cedars.
they've a vitrol passion in the form
of chemicals in their structure
that reject pests and parasites
that want to climb their heights
and enjoy their view and exploit
an atmospheric opportunity.

but im a logger, so that's my lesson in hypocrisy.
whenever i work in the cedars,
the next day, the sawdust born tannen
has welded shut my eyes, like
a solid case of conjuntivitus,
and i can't see,
which is humbling.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 17, 2013 - 06:30am PT
I like your vibe Norwegian, but you can't tell others how to enjoy a sport as broad as rock climbing. Because you like a Bold 5.10 doesn't make it wrong for others to enjoy a sport 10. And as soon as one bolt is placed, it is all a matter of semantics for how many more there will be.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 17, 2013 - 07:21am PT
We will take this sport, and we will own it.

Competition is the main driver of ethical conformity. Its been 20-30 years since rock climbers competed in the Arena of Boldness.

DMT
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2013 - 07:29am PT
Competition is the main driver of ethical conformity. Its been 20-30 years since rock climbers competed in the Arena of Boldness.

DMT

dingus we do it all the time.

in my opinion we instinctively
yearn for the respect of our peers.

this underlying competition
for the respectful position
is what drives mad boners
world wide.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 17, 2013 - 08:02am PT
Rock climbing is very much like rock and roll - sure there is a historical context. Even a kid can love the Pink Floyd. But its an exception.

We respect our elders (and our image in the carnival mirror) but we heed and compete with our peers.

Today's climbers are not competing on the concept of boldness. You know this is true, or your thread would be pointless???

You kids listen to SHYTE! Why BACK IN MY DAY THE PINK FLOYD blah blah blah blah blah

I respected my dad but I didn't follow his rock and roll. Neither did you I'll warrant.

Climbing has its historical context but the MOST important context is the here and now. Instead of telling those kids what to listen to?

Rope up, and launch your skinny ass up some blank slab like those old partners of yours (who don't do that sh#t anymore... hmmmm.) and establish some rock and roll the kids these days will like?

DMT

ps. You can't preach boldness. But you can practice it.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2013 - 09:08am PT
dingus i don't want to preach.
my girls have taught me to
appreciate today's pop music,
and i've shared some of my
music culture with them.

my intent is to re-iterate a perspective
that otherwise get's swept beneath
the virgin mary's pubic patch.

committing climbs are golden.
over-bolted sport routes and bolted cracks are pb (lead).
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 17, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
One man's gold is another's lead.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 17, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Right on, weeg

Cheers
DMT
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 17, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
If you follow anothers path then you're not really exploring now, are you? If the path is set in chalk marks, the difficulty known, then that's not really exploring as Wes claims. Real exploration has, and will always have some risk. Exploring without risk is oxymoronical, and claiming otherwise is hypocritcal, and frankly pussified thinking.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Aug 17, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
Yes, Pussified ! Quite!
The two largest cliffs in Tahoe
have just a handful of routes between
them . That tells me Young Tahoe climbers
have no balls and they are anything
but bold.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 17, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
If you follow anothers path then you're not really exploring now, are you? If the path is set in chalk marks, the difficulty known, then that's not really exploring as Wes claims. Real exploration has, and will always have some risk. Exploring without risk is oxymoronical, and claiming otherwise is hypocritcal, and frankly pussified thinking.
Thats one way of looking at, and I agree to an extent. But you can be exploring, find a wall without any prior beta and just because there are bolts there doesn't take anything away from your exploration. The you can choose to clip them, or not. It is also incorrect to think that sport climbs come without risks, or adventure. they're just different risks, and a different type of adventure. Some of my boldest moments involve second attempts to get past a crux on a sport climb after bloodying myself up on the first attempts. Maybe that makes me pussified. i don't really care though.
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 17, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
Gumby, I agree with you to an extent. Sport climbing in itself isn't necessarily pussified. Just thinking that climbing must be safe, and not respecting different styles from different times and calling the og pioneers washed up is ridiculous. The saying "there are old climbers and there are bold climbers but never old bold climbers" needs to be tossed off a short bolted route.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 17, 2013 - 05:39pm PT
If the path is set in chalk marks, the difficulty known, then that's not really exploring as Wes claims.

When did I claim that was exploring? I'm pretty sure with over 10 years of geologic mapping experience I know what exploring is.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 18, 2013 - 05:31am PT
Dont bother Wes, these bumbling chuffdaddies come on here to act all tough cuz they did a run out chossy 5.10b once.....

..and somehow this is morally superior to the majority of climbers today who want to be better climbers.

mcreel

climber
Barcelona
Aug 18, 2013 - 06:37am PT
I don't think that the number of bolts is irrelevant, once the first is placed. It's a matter of style and taste, like a good guitar solo. Too many notes, and the whole thing can be technically impressive, but forgettable.

There's nothing wrong with a good sport climb, but not every climb has to be a safe sport climb. Nowadays, if you don't feel up for a sporty climb, there's usually a safe climb a few steps away. We need to preserve diversity, so that a variety of experiences is available.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2013 - 06:57am PT
mr compton i have to assume
that you were won of those
lads that made the track team
and headed up the poetry club.

your stamina is impressive,
as are your (implied) achievements on stone.

and your literary jabs aimed
at demeaning a good intent
are well-executed.

i cower down, sir,
humbled by your apparent prowess.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:33am PT
Lol, you got me Sir Wegian, I ran cross country and was an Eng lit major in college.... and I would certainly trade all that endurance for the power to do a proper front lever.

I actually suck at sport climbing compared to those I climb with at the areas I go to. But at 44, I'll take what I can get.

FWIW, in the late 80s/early 90s, I was a hard-core trad that scoffed at even the convenience anchors going up. Now I clip permadraws and hangdog the glued and chipped chosspile lines into submission for the sake of a coveted number and attached letter.

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing, but to point out that one's satisfaction in the game of rock climbing is all relative to the experience one is seeking. ...and that experience can even change by the day.

There is no moral high ground.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:03am PT
i found what some need here WEEG! Its allll clear to me now!





http://www.deadseriousnews.com/new-fda-approved-device-silences-queefs/
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:13am PT
So how well did it work when you tried it out on yourself?
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:14am PT
"There is no moral high groung"... especially if yer a bottom feeder and a number chaser.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:27am PT
Define bottom feeder... and yes I train to do harder moves. I chase numbers like some chase virgin lines. Neither is better than the other.
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:47am PT
Clipping permadraws on chipped chosspiles is as good a defination of bottom feeder as I've heard. ;0
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:53am PT
Bumbling up 'bold' 5.10 while 20# overweight then coming on ST and thinking you are better than sportclimbers that train to be fit. ..
...is the definition of bottomfeeding to me.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:57am PT
You guys are pretty fuking funny. I've never advocated for turning every climb into a sport climb or adding bolts to established lines, at least not without the agreement of the majority of what passes for a community up here in Tahoe. The call to "keep tahoe bold" implies Wegi is unhappy with recent bolting activity, yes no? Or just needed to pound on his chest a bit... ain't nothing wrong with that.

So, is it the convenience anchors on top of the 5.9 below High Energy Wall that got you upset? The bolted lines on the blocks below Sugar Loaf... the same lines the "bold" walked past countless times and didn't think twice about. Are those silly little slabs somehow reserved for the "bold" when they get around to it... or can the pathetic losers who don't feel like risking their lives every time they tie-in take their friends up there and have a good time climbing safe lines? Or is it something else?

Why the call to "keep tahoe bold?"

FWIW, I've onsighted 10 climbs up Cloud Burst/High Energy without knowing a thing about them, and 3 more knowing only the grade. I suppose that isn't "bold" because someone had climbed them sometime before me. Certainly not as bold as aid climbing a chossy line, scrubbing (on lead of course!!!), and then red pointing it. Most sport climbing pussies I know routinely take 30+ foot whippers... but that's not bold, that's just fun. When was the last time you took a 30 footer?

Don't get me wrong, I know how much work goes into cleaning lines, and I appreciate the work/effort... just not the condescending attitude towards all other forms of climbing it breeds in some.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:02am PT
Wasn't Pump Lust on Snowshed originally a gear line? That seems bold, but then, it's been a few years since I've looked at it.

Out of my league.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:14am PT
Ah but there IS a moral high ground. That morality is established by ACTIVE climbers though, not the retired. Morality is not handed down from on high, nor is it dictated by the elders.

Morality is defined anew with every generation.

Deal with it.

Or don't.

Just understand... if you're not climbing new routes your morality towards them is pretty much irrelevant.

DMT
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:14am PT
Climbing isn't important. I love it, devote a lot of time to it, but huffy self important little pronouncements about what true climbing is just show how trivial the person spouting them is. Speaking of the frothing moral high grounders, of course.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:16am PT
http://www.deadseriousnews.com/new-fda-approved-device-silences-queefs/
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:19am PT
Ron's thought of the day. Didn't see him out at the hulk yesterday. Doubt he could manage the hike!
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:24am PT
I miss Salt Lake... where you could do a classic trad climb to warm up, watch one of the low key local legends float the 11c R next to it and catch a TR on their rope, and then glean beta from then for the 5.12 sport climb... all within 100 feet of each other... all without any bitching about "boldness" or "over bolting"... just people having a good time climbing on rocks. The next day you could find the same folks putting up safe sport climbs for others to enjoy... or chossineering some new lines on some of the higher peaks... or lounging around on a crash pad with a latte.

Is it the Sierras or just California in general that breeds the bullshit elitist mentality, where having fun climbing takes a back seat to "boldness" or perceived "number chasing?"

I placed gear for the first time in 2 years yesterday. Did Space Truckin placing 9 pieces. I need validation from people I've never met... was it bold? Come on, please tell me it was bold. Did I do okay for a boulderer? For christ's sake, yesterday won't be nearly as much fun unless I get someone to tell me it was bold.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Chim,, i need a refund on the queef suppressor, it isnt working...
jghedge

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:24am PT

"Ron's thought of the day. Didn't see him out at the hulk yesterday. Doubt he could manage the hike!"

Or the drive!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:28am PT
Dr Christ MISSES Salt Lake City???

I don't believe it! Lol :-D

No Dr Christ California climbers are pretty chill just like the SLC climbers.

The operative word here is 'climber' nawmean?

DMT
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:30am PT
I miss Salt Lake... where you could do a classic trad climb to warm up, watch one of the low key local legends float the 11c R next to it, and then glean beta from then for the 5.12 sport climb... all within 100 feet of each other... all without any bitching about "boldness" or "over bolting"... just people having a good time climbing on rocks. The next day you could find the same folks putting up safe sport climbs for others to enjoy... or chossineering some new lines on some of the higher peaks... or lounging around on a crash pad with a latte.

Is it the Sierras or just California in general that breeds the bullshit elitist mentality?
First I've gotta take the moral elitist high ground here, as it's my one peeve. It's Sierra. Never Sierras. NEVER!!!

Now that that's out of the way, have you ever run into the attitude you mention while climbing? I haven't. I think it's indigenous to the supertaco, not any geographic area.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:32am PT
Hehe, Hedge, you may have a point there.

Yeah, Wes, I don't get the elitism. Mostly, I think it lives online because people who harbor such opinions are usually too cowardly to let it live in person. They do things in the quiet of the night with crowbars, or spout missives that they don't even follow (ferchrissakes, one of the holier than thou admits to rap bolting!).

Some of the best crags I've been to mix trad and sport as it fits the climb. Nobody bitches, they just have fun. I can understand the need for different ethics, but I hardly paused to ponder them while rapping The Hulk yesterday. I guess that's how it goes when you're alpine Cali-dudin' amongst people who actually climb.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:39am PT
calls the hulk ALPINE ROFLMAO!
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:42am PT
Cali-dudin' alpine. You wouldn't get it. Lessee, 3400' of gain in 5 miles, climbs that start high above your pay grade (and probably ability to breathe effectively). Magnificent views of the back country in a beautiful place with happy, well-adjusted people. Yeah. You really wouldn't get it ;).

Before the excuse train of why you can't manage to be a real climber anymore yet you feel the need to lecture us who do because you're the all knowing man of the mountains starts, I'll just invoke one name: Donini. Better in years, knowledge, and spirit than your armchair coulda, woulda, shoulda. There, now STFU, misanthrope ;).
the czar

climber
meyers, ca.
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:05am PT
leggo my ego! hey chim, since your apparently 20lbs overweight we should probably get out tomorrow and work it off.
Credit: the czar
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:06am PT
Wasn't Fathers Day sent on lead, with no fixed gear, a few years ago?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:06am PT
I think Ron once mentioned Indian Rock as being the best alpine rock in Tahoe... so take that for what it is worth. It takes a whole hour to hike up there and tops out at about 8600'!



LaConte used Sierras.


Sierra, Sierras, NevAHduh, NevAWduh, whatever... I don't speak Spanish.


And YES, I have met mostly cool people while climbing in California... although most of them have been from out of state.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:15am PT
Wasn't Fathers Day sent on lead, with no fixed gear, a few years ago?

Pretty sure that was a head point. Without bolts the "clean" lead would not be?

I think Ron once mentioned Indian Rock as being the best alpine rock in Tahoe... so take that for what it is worth. It takes a whole hour to hike up there!

Oh, I'm sure he does consider it alpine. I honestly can't keep up with his rule changes. If you pay attention enough, the words "liar" and "hypocrite" start insistently ringing in your head, although the phrase "clueless windbag" is probably just as apt. I would like to ask him: What do you consider The Hulk? Road side cragging?

Doubt the old fool has laid eyes on the rock.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:15am PT
LaConte used Sierras
Now he's on my list too. I don't care i'll punch a baby in the face if his first word is sierras
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:17am PT
Hahahaha!!!
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:29am PT
Come on gumby, I had to grade "Sierra's" assignments when I was teaching or she would fail. And if she ever hung out with my step-niece, they would be the Sierras.

Technically, sierra means saw... so sierraS means sawS... the mountain range in question looks like a bunch of sawS to me, rather than a single saw.



How was it Jebus? Did you write a TR? (Honestly, I'd only look at the pictures if you did). Did you SEND?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:34am PT
Its SIERRAS there is the UPPER and LOWER Sierra mtn rangES..
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:35am PT
Punch the Baby! Lol! Love you Gum!
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:35am PT
Okay, I concede... Ron set me straight... the proper name is clearly Sierra with NO s.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:35am PT
No TR. Sent, yes. Positive Vibes, truly the rock climb of dreams. More jams than the Dead. Definitely had to lively up myself for that day, and now I feel like I got a beat down. In a good way.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:36am PT
Name those ranges Ron or stfu!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Jebus beat downs are FUN!!!! Trust me I know...
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:37am PT
Nice work. I'd like to do that before I get too old.

So you recommend taping? I haven't worn tape gloves since Indian Creek in 1996.
WML

climber
Edge of the Electric Ocean Beneath Red Rock
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:37am PT
'grats on the send, Jebus! I know that had been on your list for some time, well done.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:39am PT
I taped one hand. Michael Jackson, bishes! And the taped hand came out the worse for wear. So, I dunno. You'll definitely be shoving your mitts in the rock in an Indian Creek-like fashion, so follow your nose on that one.

edit: Thanks, Weston! It definitely lived up to the hype. Now I won't have anything to talk about anymore though. Well, I guess I can still beat off in the dead of night while whispering "positive vibes" to the darkness.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:40am PT
Id just point out that most of the ranters here are of the FOLLOW crowd, not the lead crowd. THANK GAWD for that....
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:44am PT
Astute as all your other observations, Ron. Or nonsensical. Oh, right, same thing.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:51am PT
yeah queeefuss? Well, im one hell of a lot closer to a Donini that you-will -ever-be. And im miles away, which puts you where.

How much ice have you done? How many high peaks? How many ALPINE routes?
Or how about Mid winter Sierras ventures?
How many routes have you put up? How many areas have you developed?

The CRICKETS will now sing..


the ones moaning the most DO the least.. Isnt that "special".
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:57am PT
Yeah, Queefus, it's a pissing contest.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:00am PT
You're right, I don't put up climbs. If I did, I wouldn't rate 5.10c climbs 5.11c like you have either ;).

And snow? Ice? Thank you, no. Don't like it, don't care. Have at it, build snow men to your delight. Eat the yellow snow, it suits you.

You hang around downing other climbers for doing what they love, that places you a far shot away from Donini status. You need to hand in your "climber" card, you've abused your privileges ;).

Yeah, Queefus, it's a pissing contest.

Yeah, and Ron can pee in his own mouth! I can never win with competition like that!

Seriously though, every time I climb I run into people far more impressive than him who don't sit around crowing all day long like a farm yard cock. The level of ego leads him to comparing himself to actual living legends, he doesn't even know where he sits.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:14am PT
Brandon,, let me tell you of a BOLD Tahoe climber. His name is Bill Todd, who now resides somehwere in Kansas. He started climbing in the very early 70s in the region along with others like Rick Sumner , Jon Taylor, Greg Dexter, Richard Harrison, and many other well known climbers. Bill and crew put up many BOLD routes in the Tahoe area including some of the test pieces at the Leap , Sugarloaf, Echo Summit, Flagpole peak, Indian Rock and countless others.
His style was PURE BOLDNESS and most of his routes require a certain "head" to do. Bill was part of the four that put out the FIRST ever comprehensive guides to Tahoe in 1976, the "RED" guide.

Bills routes gained instant reputation , much like another Stellar climber by the name of John Bachar. In fact , Tapestry" at the loaf was considered by many to be the Bachar-Yerian of the tahoe region. Others like "wipe out" or "EBs WALL" and many others required one to climb far above protection on difficult moves. When these were put up, "SAVE THE ROCK" was the going mantra as clean climbing had just been introduced. So sparingly placed bolts were the NORM. It wasnt about whos ego could be stroked the hardest by doing an insane runout. It was about going as far as YOU could -giving the rock its due respect and chance and then, only after reaching your maximum pressure guage de-internale, you stopped and began a delicate hand tapping. Those were testaments to CLEAN CLIMBING.

So today, when you go there, there are at least two routes crossing "tapestry" and bolts all over it. NO ONE ever experiences the Tahoe BY any more. Instead they do yet another bolted knob climb festooned with shiney hangars. You dont even see a pic of anyone on it. Its THAT memorable now.

So excuse us washed up relics for having a memory. Excuse us for knowing what the cause and effects are since weve been there. And excuse us for trying to save that rock.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:19am PT
Just don't clip the bolts, dude!


BwHahahahaha!


We should page tripod Aidan for this new entry.


p.s. What were your rap bolted routes about? Fluffing your climbing grade?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:25am PT
And excuse us for trying to save that rock.

You aren't trying to save the rock, you are trying to hold onto your past. There is nothing wrong with that, just be honest about it.

The bane of the traditionalist, whether in climbing or politricks, is the assumption that keeping their version of history intact is worth more than someone else's experience.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:35am PT
which ones, i did about 8/9 rap bolted routes.. What was i rap bolting for? It was those times , and i had to experience it to have EXPERIENCE. It was a BRIEF interlude in my climbing phases.

Thats amateur crap,, ive even DRILLED POCKETS !!!!! Ive been to the darkest sides there is. And ive risen to the light side as well. Ive done ice, alpine high peaks winter climbs, fas of around 300 routes from the Sierras to Susanville, and pioneered 7 areas in the greater tahoe region. Spent two yeas putting together a guide..

Knowing a history of an area and being involved in that history on both sides of the coin gives you a far clearer picture of what has and will be.



edit: wes, YOU werent there, where you even alive then? DONT tell me why i hung up my pins off the rack bub.!! I DIDNT want to do that. But clean climbing made SENSE and as much as it bugged me i started placing stoppers and hexes instead of WELDING in a ringing pin. Do your "research" youll find climbing mag had many articles BITD on the damage being done.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Ron, that was a good slice of the past. Thanks for sharing, seriously.

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:41am PT
DONT tell me why i hung up my pins off the rack bub.!!

I never told you why you did anything bub. I couldn't give a sh#t if/why/when/where you shoved your ringing pins. Not sure where you got the idea I did. But then again, most of your "ideas" are a mystery to the vast majority of us.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:43am PT
Ron, that was a good slice of the past. Thanks for sharing, seriously.

I do like his tid bits from the past, just not his constant editorializing on everything that plagues this site. Hey, maybe he'll even keep that post and not erase it like he's been doing lately!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:45am PT
Wes,,you retarded or whut? From you first line - "you werent trying to save the rock.." Yes,, Yes we are/ were... How old were you in 1975?


and actually queefuss, i saw the thread turning into a shyt fest without me in it- a wee experiment i did. So i thought what the H..Ill STILL get points in despite having to answer idgets and their jabs.

Now EVERYONE knows you dont like me. I know you dont like me- your the only one in my life to ever wish me a slow death from cancer, or at least communicate that. You need to drop the crap, save it for when/if we ever meet again in person. Then you can fully express your desire for my death, but until that time really,, quit the bs.






Edit: Weeg, i believe you can see as do i a certain heartless soul sort of situation in younger generations no? When i was a youngster in climbing, that is when the clean climbing change took place. We had heart and soul then, bolts were a seldom seen feature, walk offs the norm, or natural anchors were used. I remember the Loaf when you could count the visible from ground bolts on two hands all the way around it. And they were hard to spot being the black Leeper or Dolt hangers.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
Ron you are a drama queen through and through and your cry baby bent comes through loud and clear. You are at best an annoyance to me, not an enemy as you have dubbed me you cry baby never were.

More threats is your usual mo, I see. Don't worry about meeting, I'll be out climbing! Actual classics too, so no Anderson routes, bwahahahaha.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
Brandon,,Ill explain my sport areas for purpose here.

A) Prison Hill. Small clusters of 30/40+ foot formations of polished andesite very little if any natural pro - zero on any faces.

B) No other activity there save the ancient 1/4 incher set in the pocket pool wall by Brad Clayton in 1974 where two top ropes were done. Out of the way and isolated.

C) Rock quality is very good, LANDINGS are very poor.

Basically it was very well suited to sport routes so we made a "circuit" of one to three or four short lead routes per formation. All top anchored and bolted safely - CONVENIENCE was also considered HERE. It was all about sport. Some we did top down others g/u including solo g/u as well.

There are a few trad crack lines in the easier ratings but for the most its steep crimpy climbing on some of the most polished andesite in the region. We only did what we could do without more than a hang or two in rehearsal. There is much opportunity for harder lines there up to .14 i would imagine.

So those are the ingredients used to determine that to be a sport area.
There are MANY like it scattered about in hidden draws, canyons, and ranges,, many. So if you feel the need to explore, and are sport minded, look to those places like P Hill. Ive no regrets about the place, even though i dont remember most of the routes as well as i do those of the "trad" variety i put up. Although, i saw a rope cut in a nano second there on a small edge almost all the way through!. That edge was rounded off for safety sake as trs were sure to hit it. It was a razor.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
Onto another BOLD climber named Al Swanson. (AlDude here).

The guy was everywhere around the region, from Donner to Woodfords, all points in between. And always with a stretcher out sort of flavor to his routes. Those on echo and Mid domes all have spice between the clips all done on the lead tapping away. And there are some hideous runouts with equally hideous moves on some of them. Many were put up in the "sport surge" times, yet still have the feel of something a wee bit more serious. I once took a forty footer tumbler down a long azz slab when a foot caught a knob and tipped me. I didnt die but lots of air between is the norm for Al. Which is exaclty why the routes were so appealing,, the mental/physical combined challenge.
jghedge

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 01:36pm PT


"Ron you are a drama queen through and through and your cry baby bent comes through loud and clear."


Rong is trying to set some kind of world record for how hard it's possible to spray about WATCHING people climb, hahahaha.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Wes,,you retarded or whut? From you first line - "you werent trying to save the rock.."

From me actual first line: "you aren't trying to save the rock"

But whatever. You should get out more, try to relax.
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 06:54pm PT
Czar, let's get out. Since i'm so fat I should probabally bring a stick clip instead of my usual sytle of standing on your shoulders to clip the first permadraw on our new chipped chosspile. Dank.
Credit: Chim-Chim
THis photo was from the recent wedding of Pat and Wes
Credit: Chim-Chim
The party got kinda crazy
Credit: Chim-Chim
So I went climbing instead
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Chim you PHAT LAZY MFER! Now ya got queefuss,, patprick and hedge worm all foamy and shyut.
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
Is jeebus the dog or the sheep? The sheep I reckin'
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
Yaaaahhhhh baaahhhhhhh he is da sheep.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
I'm okay with your homoerotic fantasies, fellas. And, well, I am handsome, so I don't blame you for your exciting sexual role playing :).

I regret to inform the homosexual bestiofiles that somebody already put a ring on it though :(. Sorry, maybe in the next life, gays, uh, I mean, guys.

Sweet dreams, jelly beans.

edit: Sheesh, no wonder the guidebook isn't finished! He's too busy queerin' off! Hahaha... Seriously though, ETA on that guide to the most magical of mystery areas? And, no, I'm not speaking of my anus.
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
Good one jebus you got me.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
Ah, just having fun between studying. It's like being back in school!

Still looking forward to the guide though. Wish I had the time to keep it old school and explore it all myself, but life is to damn busy.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:03pm PT
You just be sure that queefuss is the FIRST person you notify when done .. Yup yup...Cuz he kaint climb wiffout a guide.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:03pm PT
you guys are a trip, go climbing.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
its too dark and too smokey to go climb right now.
bit'er ol' guy

climber
the past
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
Kurt Smith

Anybody else linning up to solo manic?

oh..right..Bachar.

He let The Kid go first!

or how 'bout way old school...Dick "skippy" Richardson.

Check the guide book dude,

ground up stance drillin on sight hard 5.11 in EBs and a swami!

Badass.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
BOG,, those are just more "phat has been malingerers forcing their ways upon the poor noobs while stroking their egos ".. Chris Sharma is OLD school to these folks.
JOEY.F

Gym climber
It's not rocket surgery
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
Going to miss going here, another family cabin bites the dust. (not mine) but privilaged to stay off and on for 30 yrs or so. Rubicon Bay.
2 of 3 owners not interested, dang....
2 of 3 owners not interested, dang....
Credit: JOEY.F
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Aug 19, 2013 - 12:59am PT
Keep tahoe bold, as long as you place a bolt 15 ft up the line. Or better yet bolt the whole route so I do not have to bring anything other than quickdraws. Screw that heavy trad gear.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:03am PT
and permadraws would solve the nasty quickdraw problem, and maybe a cable that could turn my segway into some sort of climbing walmart electric cart.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:57am PT
Also, I think rap rings as a descent from Hogsback is a bad idea, a roller coaster would be much more convenient.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 19, 2013 - 10:02am PT
its too dark and too smokey to go climb

Hmmm, that's odd... I did 400' of 5.10-5.11 tard climbing, 20 boulder problems with the gf, and helped clean up 3 new quality bp's this weekend. Also took in a good show at Sand Harbor last night.

I know, I know, it still doesn't match the level of bad ass you WERE... but I bet I had more fun than you this weekend... I win.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 19, 2013 - 10:07am PT
this place is like a locker room with old man smell.

Old Spice aftershave and stories of yore that never were for the teller.

and so much bitter butthurtedness re the 'new generation'

Has beens that never were
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 10:20am PT
Rick Sumner - another BOLD tahoe climber. With names like "Toombstone terror" at the leap he did with Richard Harrison and Jay Smith.

During doing FA at the leap in the early 70s, Rick took multiple LONG FALLS including a 100 plus footer that left him with several broken bones. His group put up some of the hardest climbs in the region..

Rick actually took another WELL KNOWN BOLD Tahoe climber on his first multi pitch route, Paul Crawford was that youngster who would soon be o force of his own. Rick climbed with the likes of Harrsion, Smith, Crawford, Todd, Dexter, Taylor, and about a thousand others . On a afternoon crag session just a while ago, i watched rick climb past bolts to fiddle in some gear. His accomplishments and ethics are well documented in the Tahoe region and together with Greg Dexter, Bill Todd, Jon Taylor created the first ever comprehensive guide to the Tahoe region, and then a year later Rick came out with the "greeen Guide" and expanded version from the Red guide. They also did the first routes on Indian Rock as well as many other places. Those guides "opened" up the region like nothing has since, or ever will. It was the first official documentation of MANY areas including the Loaf , Spires, Eagle Canyon and many others.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
Ron, I have no dog in this little pissing match. I don't recognize the mythic figure you are trying to describe. I never took a fall longer than 60 feet. I was always inconsistent and backed off more bold climbs than I accomplished, I was just a 5.10 or occasional 5.11 climber and certainly not among the ranks of others such as Smith and Crawford. In short I was just the guidebook chronicler of the day and had the privilege to climb with some of the more accomplished climbers of the day. Please leave me out of this.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Ohwww it was ONLY 60' when you broke yourself badly? Well then lol!

But i stick to my guns because i did enough of your guys routes of the past to know they were a bit on the BOLD side. And your opening up the region was HUGE for that time! We went from just hearing rumors of this area or that to actually seeing them, having topos and the works!
jghedge

climber
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:19pm PT


Hahahahaha

Nobody wants you to spray for them, idiot. Go away.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
Hedgepuss this is about keeping Tahoe BOLD,, therefore YOU have ZERO place in it. You dont even climb anymore , just a malingerer. Kind of a malignant one at that.
jghedge

climber
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:32pm PT


Hahaha, your own bro's are telling you to shut your ignorant mouth. Get a clue, little one.
DataMind

Social climber
Aug 19, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
Keep Tahoe Petty
PopLockeAndDropIt

Gym climber
Hialeah, FLORIDA
Aug 19, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Bro, he's TOTALLY bold by assocation and name dropping. Duh.

Practice what you preach, plenty of virgin rock still out there, BROTHER.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
nice headwall o roofs and cracks <br/>
 <br/>
"Monkey man wall"
nice headwall o roofs and cracks

"Monkey man wall"
Credit: Ron Anderson

You KNOW it PLADI! Nevader,, the frontier^^^^^ clean hard and gorgeous.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 19, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
clean hard and gorgeous.

That's me every Friday night.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 19, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
I try to shower at least once a week too.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Aug 19, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
It takes a concerted effort.

So fresh and clean afterwards.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
I can't climb without a guide, Ron? I guess my saving grace then is that at least my harder sends haven't been my own pillow soft FA's. That's a certified zing to your sheep shagger, in case you don't get it ;).
PopLockeAndDropIt

Gym climber
Hialeah, FLORIDA
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
SOFT AS DEEZ?
SOFT AS DEEZ?
Credit: PopLockeAndDropIt
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
Same Jeebus, poking fun between work and play. No offense I didn't realize you were male ;) Went out there with the czar today, muggy though, wanted to be bold, just felt old and fat. Pat mat be onto something.
OR

Trad climber
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
Just catching up on this thread...it's funnies.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
Dan,, yur BOLD,, in any ones book. Ive seen many of your creations. Ya hard core bastid! ;-)


As for queefuss, hes not done my better routes. Probably never even seen indian rock.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:58pm PT
Bold is for pussies.

I'm all for preserving it though. It's an important right of passage for some.

Was for me BITD
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
Smack yurself ClimbTuSKEE!;-)


You bet theres a phase - a graph line of boldness for most. It starts young climbs to a pinnacle then backs off as time takes its toll. Life interferes and that drive goes away. Soon the bones are more fragile than they used to be. And you find yourself sewing the hell out of anything you climb. Which is natural. You wont even do your OWN run out nightmares anymore - that is true. Saying its because weve smartened up is also true to a certain angle, of which is the realization of age fragility, and responsibility. But its never been a regret having done those. In fact its a highlight of ones climbing stint.





climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 19, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
5 things seem to have come into play.

One I suck and am not as comfortble on the medium as I was back when I climbed almost every day.

2nd I seem to have more gut level fear than I remember having in the past. This fact is unexpected, very annoying and seems weird.

3rd 20 more years of perspective. I like living, Mostly life is VERY good. I love climbing and I want to do it for a few more decades and I KNOW how quick it can all end.

4th I really dont need to prove anything to myself ...via climbing anyway. Good thing cause i suck.

5th I don't trust my body as much as I did when i was 20. Its doing some weird sh#t lately and trying to leave me stranded like a old car.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
Dood i got one shoulder left, we ALL suck now !!! And so will this generation when it gets to be in our place of time.. Pass the Kao-pectate, Pepto-bismal, geritol and an ensure to wash down the Cetrum silver !
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 19, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
Except for Donini... That dude is starting to piss me off.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
Bahaa,, no CHYT eh..There are a few of ALIEN acception,, of which HE is most definitely one..
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 19, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
4th I really dont need to prove anything to myself ...via climbing anyway.

Your 4th point is key to the whole underlying discussion....

back in the day? If one wanted to prove one's meddle (ie. COMPETE) one had to take on the bold and the stupid.

Its not the bold routes.

Repeat - its not the bold routes. Its the competition... it has changed.

Right now, very few climbers give a rats ass about a new 5.11x. They certainly won't be motivated to competitively up the ante, because climbers don't compete like that anymore (for the most part).

The competition is what drove the hard, dangerous climbing that got done in the 80s. But them that were doing it mostly decided they were going to die if they kept at it. I remember The General's words to that affect.

So they changed the nature of the competition. They very same people who are lauded for their bold routes STOPPED DOING IT and changed the rules. Because they felt the ragged edge of mortality over what is at its core a recreation activity. Keep competing that way and you are going to die, sooner rather than later.

I still solo easy stuff. The only competition I have is with my own nerve. Can I still do it?

Yes I can. Do I give a sh#t if my FAs are bold or not?

No, I don't.

Will I come into someone's back yard and start drilling a clip up? Nope. But it has nothing to do with boldness and everything to do with being 'a guest.'

So keep your Tahoe Bold, by all means. Correction - there is only ONE WAY to keep your Tahoe bold... by doing bold routes. YOU. Who ever you are, bold route aficionado. If all you're into are Couch Speeches go f*#k yourself.

DMT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
We havent put in ONE bolt on any new Nevada routes. Nary uhwun...

And dingus,, you know by proxy, all guide writers get extra cred to commenting on covered areas. You really never did get a copy of the unwritten rules huh...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 19, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
What are your better routes, Rong?

Indian Rock? I won't answer your question about the crag nobody seems to give a sh#t about enough to climb until you stop dodging my Hulk question, wiggle worm ;).

Yes, poplockit, a whole number is soft as a sexy undies pillow fight.
Chim-Chim

climber
Aug 19, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
Never been to Indian Rock but I heard it was quite nice.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 19, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
Very Nice Chim Cracks like You know where! And three nice tiers of stone divided by campable ledges makes for a mini wall right there in tayhow! Facing straight west makes the sundowns supreme.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
shut the f*#kup jebeus and weschrist, jhedge! dinggus and other detractors

ron is a valued component of our's heritage.

you young punks need to learn some respect.

respect is like running it out.
lost upon our generation.

thanks ron,
for being you amongst a lot of them.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 20, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
speaking of areas that used to be bold, but now are just bolts, anyone know whether the t-storms hit the loaf today? seems like they were more on the east slope from my vantage, but my vantage can't see their vantage, and it's on the scope for tomorrow.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 21, 2013 - 05:40am PT
respect goes both ways Wegian

most communities don't have this dualistic thinking, sport respects bold AND bold respects sport.

I regularly sport climb with a guy that goes and does run-out, chossy 12s and 13s trad FAs the very same weekend. sure, i give him sh#t and he gives it back, but he knows I know what he does is bad ass, and what I do is me pushing myself in my own way.

that is respect.
WTF

climber
Aug 21, 2013 - 07:05am PT
This is f*#king classic sh#t right here. GHEY.

Fact. The last tahoe bold man is now dead his name was Dan Osman.

Jeebus. UHHH go back to drinking. Some think drunks are mean and belligerent. Well Jeebus your sober mean and belligerent and by the way one trip into the hulk don't mean sh#t.

Don't get me wrong there are still some bold men round but just not the kind of bold I consider to mind blowing danger seekers like some of those from the past.

Ron was in the 70 and early 80s a bold man doing sh#t well frankly that was bold. I respect him for his willingness to climb sh#t no one else would.
Stewart Johnson

climber
lake forest
Aug 21, 2013 - 07:49am PT
Indian rock
Indian rock
Credit: Stewart Johnson

Here it is again .
The one hour approach has kept climbers away for years now
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 21, 2013 - 07:55am PT
Fact. The last tahoe bold man is now dead his name was Dan Osman.


Fact. Dan Osman was also a sport climber who rap bolted, grid bolted, and even manufactured the base of Cave Rock for comfort.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 21, 2013 - 08:08am PT
Yep, Dan Osman rap bolted sport routes... and had FUN doing them. And I've been sport climbing with Adrian Burgess, Jonny Woodward, Jose Pereyra, and other bold climbers... they didn't bitch about the bolts... they had FUN getting pumped silly without putting their life on the line. A few of them even went on to put up their very own sport climbs. I heard Donini even had fun in Maple a few years back.

FACT is, Tahoe lacks legitimate sport crags now that Cave Rock is gone, but has plenty of bold (museum) climbs that hardly ever get done.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 21, 2013 - 08:47am PT
DANO stancin on 5.12 holds g/u on the thin face- "Book of red"..
DANO stancin on 5.12 holds g/u on the thin face- "Book of red"..
Credit: Ron Anderson


soooooPatrick Compton,, did you even know Dano? Does he look to be rap bolting in that pic i posted? I would also like you to tell me where he "grid bolted" anything.. You can yammer on all you want about me- i dont care. BUT you had BETTER BE accurate if you want to bash a dead friend of mine. THAT IS FAKT you do not want to ignore.



and as far as the Cave and the "patio",,,before Danos efforts there it was a DUMP. trash broken glass and beer cans everywhere. Shat and toilet paper, old pallets and dis-guarded items of all manner. EVEN the actual "local tribe" of Washoes thought he had done a MAGNIFICENT job.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 09:00am PT
I just love watching the bitter old f*#kers bitch and complain and disrespectfully demand respect for their point of view only.

Detractors? Give me a break. Not everyone will agree with your viewpoint and arguments. Get over it. Dont whine and cry when everyone on this damn site doesnt worship and leghump your ideals.

Cheers on The Osman facts, theyre hardly secrets. Yes he was bold, yes he made some questionable ethics decisions, but whatever, it is what it is. Validate as you see fit, but he did create a good pile of issues with some of his decisions

Besides, having a debate about boldness with ron is like having a debate about running with a fat person.

There are lots of new routes going up in the Tahoe region that are both bolted and bold, many on the same route. If youre such the uber-local stewards, then go find them. We're hardly keeping them secret.

As for the so-called detractors, lets go drinking.
PopLockeAndDropIt

Gym climber
Hialeah, FLORIDA
Aug 21, 2013 - 09:18am PT
The patron saint of boldness in the Tahoe community cries loud

He who is told to stop name dropping by one of his own boys.

So, patron saint of dementia-induced babble...

How many hits to the bong

Does it take to be so Rong?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 21, 2013 - 09:19am PT
"disrespectfully demand respect"


BAAAAAAhahahhaaa! Then ONLY ones showing utter disrespect are you youths here.


Others here have been TRYING to have a conversation about Tahoe. While about four doink schmirnoffs sling the shet, like little untrained monkeys.



PopLockeAndDropIt

Gym climber
Hialeah, FLORIDA
Aug 21, 2013 - 09:30am PT
Ron, perhaps nobody has an issue with there being bold routes out there as you seem to think. They certainly have their place. Much the same place that many of the safely bolted routes have - if your head space and skill set is in such a place to take on Tapestry as it was, then take it on. Conversely, if you take on a route more along the lines of, say, Bolt Run at Donner Summit (it's more than 15 miles from Carsonsippi, so not sure if you have ever been there) in order to build skill and competence at a grade, there is a place for that as well. Do all routes need to be closely bolted affairs? Of course not. Do all routes need to be testpieces? The same answer rings true here as well, of course not.


Running around behaving like you have the last vial of 'bold' in the Carson region is akin to running around with a wooden nickel thinking you have a fortune. There are plenty bold in the younger generation, and running around babbling about the 'bold' days (and mind you it appears that those seem to be in the past tense), just makes you seem bitter and out of touch. Perhaps many in this bold new generation are too busy climbing to unleash ethical diatribes on the internet.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 21, 2013 - 09:37am PT
PLADI,, i havent said one thing about ME being bold. Ive talked about others i know/knew that are bold. Ive never claimed to be any of what you stated. I AGREE about the bolted routes being useful and fun. Ive put my own bolted routes up. I HAVE NEVER said bolted climbs are bad.

Retro bolting- is bad. Installing useless un required anchors is bad.


I dont know why some go right to the extreme in interpretation but clearly, some will do just that. Ohww and i did bolt run shortly after it went in- yep,, the donkey made it all the way up the hill to donner can you believe it!


Now, the next time you go to ORG, stop and just LOOK at it for a while. Then tell me you dont think we went batshyt crazy there.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 09:42am PT
You get a little touchy, dontcha?

You think Im a youth, thats so cute!

You just dont like it when others come in with any sort of different viewpoint. Hence, the term discussion.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 21, 2013 - 10:21am PT
Ron-enator,

When I say Dano did those things, it is out of respect for his ability to see and use the tactics and training of sport climbing WHILE being a bad ass trad.

The two disciplines are only exclusive in your mind and the minds of other Supertopo-ans stuck in dualistic thinking to try to pump their ego and self-worth.

If you see what what I wrote about your friend as a slam, then you are seeing it through your own lense. No, I never met him, wish I had.

timeless footage:



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 21, 2013 - 10:29am PT
Thank you for that Patrick. And no i dont see the two disciplines as exclusive. I engaged in all of them and then some. Ive only said that i prefer, and have better memories of those routes where i did manage to play by the rocks game.. ANY piece of rock can be conquered. But i got better feeling by playing by the rocks rules and not mine. That is what ive tried to convey here. Not that bolts are bad, not that sport routes are bad. Im simply relating my experiences. Much like i would suggest CaboWabo tequilla over anything put out by JoseQuervo. Just recommending the "good stuff" as i see it.



edit: regarding your statement : " pumping the ego and self worth", why would you say that. Some of us are ONLY relating our experience. But by your words, there must have been something that stroked our egos and self worth right?

I know that a few of my runout routes have seldom been repeated and will seldom ever be. I did not do those for other people. I did those for the rock. If i would have had MY way, i would have used those bolts we carried but never dug into. But the rock dictated the means. That is just as "neat" a game as dogging a difficult sport line into submission.

So forward to today. Up at clear creek, dinosaur rock has seen retro bolted anchors all over it, RIGHT next to cracks where we USED to anchor climbs. They are HANDY, but 100% excessive. Ive rapped off every section there on natural gear. But todays mind set is going the way of this very thing. The need for absolute safety over common sense and preservation.

NO BODY wants to DIE climbing. I NEVER want to die climbing. Thats why we spent $$$$ on new ropes, shiney new chocks and then cams. But people, even armed with all of this technology still fall short and slap in needless anchors while disregarding that huge rack they are toting. In one set of anchors at CC, there are a set of anchors so you can lower of the ledge to the ledge set anchors, then rap down or tr. Four bolts - all within five feet of each other and perfectly good cracks inbetween. Cracks which were used to anchor those climbs for some thirty years before the bolts showed up.


i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Aug 21, 2013 - 11:19am PT
Didn't you retro-bolt Deadman's Rappel???
DataMind

Social climber
Aug 21, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Poor Rodney...
DataMind

Social climber
Aug 21, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
What Rodney so eloquently articulated is that we need to find common ground to stand on. The whole "my route is better than your route" grows tiresome and doesn't really motivate ideals. In fact it hinders them.
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
This thread is no longer "BOLD"
It's now lame
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 21, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
Hehehe. Chivalry isn't dead, I see. Sure guys, stand up for one of the most circular, least flexible, most bitter dudes on this site because it looks so sad for the out of touch fella to take the heat so poorly. I used to do it all the time! Then one day you might wake the f*#k up and see who is authoring the same boorish outcome in almost every thread he touches. Or not. Whatever.

I'm not going to drum my chest about my second visit to the Hulk. If you think that, you missed the point and don't care about the serial squirreling out of answering questions that happened in that exchange. But sure, comparing our and our friends' boldness online is super productive and a great way to frame a "debate" on ethics. I know my climbing and why I do it, you can typify it however you want, I don't care what you think about it or my personal life you know sh#t all about.

Btw: WTF, if you have a problem with another's sobriety, you must have it rough. Makes sense the climbing police would have similar problems editing themselves when it comes to others' choices is all I can say!
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 21, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
Up at clear creek, dinosaur rock has seen retro bolted anchors all over it, RIGHT next to cracks where we USED to anchor climbs. ... But todays mind set is going the way of this very thing. The need for absolute safety over common sense and preservation.

First of all... dino rock is a pile of rotting choss.

2nd... lowering off anchors preserves the surrounding area FAR more than having everyone walk off... FAR, FAR more. 3/8" holes in the rock vs. 300' of steep eroding "trail" ... NO CONTEST. Just another case where you "know" it is better because that is how you did it and you say it is better, but in reality you are Rong.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 21, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
Well we certainly dont have to worry about wesspussy EVER BEING BOLD. Wont fukkin happen in ten millenniums. Now go get you booty fisted fukkhead. go drag yur pad while you pinch on pebbles its where you belong.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 21, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
Ah, did you get your feelings hurt?

Fact remains, the only descent rock at dyno rock is Edge of Doom, and even that ain't all that.

How many sets of anchors are up there now?
jghedge

climber
Aug 21, 2013 - 07:45pm PT


"Now go get you booty fisted fukkhead."


Hahahahaha

Freud would have a field day
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Aug 21, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
Good lord, does ron ever know when to shut up? Pardon my rhetoric....and his piss-poor grammar, spelling, and syntax. Pure comedy gold, keep talking...or whatever you call that stuff you type. Have fun dinking around at dinosaur rock and other 5.3 nevada chosspiles, that will save much more good climbing for the rest of us.

I agree with wes, a well placed anchor really has a profound affect on the surrounds. An anchor with questionable necessity in itself can show benefits in other arenas, such as erosion from walk-offs. Such logic is difficult for large egos or small brains to understand. Things change as the user group becomes larger. You cant avoid it. New problems pop up, old ones get bigger and more serious.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Aug 22, 2013 - 04:54am PT
I like how ron's best pussy insult to Wes is to call him a boulderer, which uses no protection at all. Yummy Irony.

... and yeah, butt fisting, at least by him a drink first. Or, is this a new offwidth technique?
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2013 - 05:08am PT
a mentor of mine in both life and climbing
shared with me that
above all,
even above the glaring ethical
differences that abound,
climbing is about community:
the brotherhood and sisterhood
established among our peers
whom share a passion for our pursuit.

and he was of the opinion
that my thread here, is no good,
and that it is damaging a
vein which courses from our heritage,
thru this present and into some future.

the stupid cheap shots displayed here
among a select few immaturites
have reinforced my friend's sentiment.

this has become one of the worst
threads that i've ever seen on this forum,
it really has brought out the beasts,
in their lowest form.

i wont delete it though,
because the immature and assinine folk
deserve their rightful seat within our theatre.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 22, 2013 - 06:53am PT
I'm curious, did you expect different results? If so how did you imagine this thread tracking, when you opened it?

DMT
WTF

climber
Aug 22, 2013 - 07:00am PT
Btw: WTF, if you have a problem with another's sobriety, you must have it rough

Doode the only reason you are sober is you almost f*#king killed yourself while climbing drunk. So don't get all I'm sober high horse on us here Jeebs. Is your sobriety good? Yes is your demeanor/ persona the same drunk or sober yes.

As far as Ron goes he digs his holes he's a big boy he can handle you or anyone here giving him what he has sowed. Right or rong he's got huge history in the area and some bold
Climbs he did during the time in which he did them.

Like I said this thread is GHEY. Adios Jotos
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 22, 2013 - 08:09am PT
Have I drank with you then since you know how I am both drunk and sober? Do you know how I am in person at all, or do you just tea bag Ron on the daily for kicks? It would be nice to know and would help sort out whether you are the raging c#&t I suspect you are from any other malfunction you may have.

Your words hint that you don't handle the idea of sobriety well, that you you probably have your own problems to get so bent out of shape over it in a stranger. Call me a dry drunk if you will, but you are likely a drunk drunk giving all the typical nastiness while claiming to be the victim. And it was you who introduced the topic as a complete non sequitur to this thread. Frankly, it's kinda...strange. Hmmmm? Need to talk it out, buddy?

As far as bad stuff happening to cause my change? Um, yeah, people generally stop drinking because of bad stuff, not usually because they feel so guilty over having such a great, consequence free time. Did you not know that? I don't think I'm any better a person than anybody else for my decision, although I do feel very lucky. Your projections are yours, whether you are brave enough to own them or not.

As far as the topic, the righteous indignation and self indulgent brand of tripe offered here as unassailable truth, it is both typical and telling. What else do you expect, Dingus asks. Probably right on that count, yet somehow I also feel like I interrupted the sweaty evangelist preaching brimstone at the strip mall. Y'all pulpit pounders have as little to do with my salvation, that's for sure.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 22, 2013 - 08:25am PT
It took me a while to realize drinking just made me feel like sh#t and did nothing but make ugly chicks fukable. I miss beer... I love beer... but I don't miss drinking one bit. Always glad to see people give that sh#t up... seen it ruin too many lives.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Aug 22, 2013 - 08:33am PT
Nice, Dr. Christ!
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Aug 22, 2013 - 08:51am PT
did nothing but make ugly chicks fukable.
Freud says, "this person is really full of himself and needs my help"
"you're thinkin with the wrong organ which explains alot."
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Aug 22, 2013 - 10:32am PT
Good lord, does ron ever know when to shut up? Pardon my rhetoric....and his piss-poor grammar, spelling, and syntax. Pure comedy gold, keep talking...or whatever you call that stuff you type. Have fun dinking around at dinosaur rock and other 5.3 nevada chosspiles, that will save much more good climbing for the rest of us.

I agree with wes, a well placed anchor really has a profound affect on the surrounds.

Always funny to see guys mock someone else's writing while messing up their own. Glass houses and all that.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:08am PT
Ron shattered the glass a few thousand posts back.

DMT
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