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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 10, 2006 - 07:34pm PT
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Slab climbing is getting to be something of a lost art. It just isn't trendy. Historically, some of the greatest and most challenging climbs have been on slabs - e.g. in Yosemite, Tuolumne, Tahquitz/Suicide, and Squamish. (Mostly granitic rock.) A proving ground for precise footwork and balance, and often for boldness, given that on-sight slab climbs are often not well protected by modern standards.
I was wondering why this was the case. We used to slab climb a lot at Squamish, and there are many hard routes, up to 'easy' 5.12 anyway. Often quite bold, but not always. We learned a lot by climbing such routes. Usually established in the days of EBs, 1/4" Rawl compression bolts, and bathooks. Even with sticky rubber, and most bolts replaced with 3/8" stainless expansion, slab routes over about 5.11 are rarely climbed. The more moderate but runout ones likewise.
To my mind, a slab is something between perhaps 30 and 70 degrees, where the main tactics are friction, balance, and mental resiliency. Of course, it blurs a bit at the upper end - when does a slab become a face?
A few modern climbers sneer at anything less than vertical as being a 'slab', but one wonders how many have ever slab climbed. I've always thought that rock climbers should be well-rounded. If you can climb 5.14a face climbs, 5.12 thin cracks, 5.6 offwidths, and no slabs at all, you're missing a lot. Likewise if you only do bolted climbs, although many of the 'sportiest' slabs have only bolts.
Anyway, it is interesting that the hardest true slabs seem to be in the 5.12 range, and many such routes were established 20 years ago or more. Is it possible for there to be harder slab climbs, or is 5.12 the limit? And why don't people climb hard slabs much any more? Is it just because they're too scary, or not trendy?
Anders
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GoMZ
Trad climber
Paradise
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Jul 10, 2006 - 07:48pm PT
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Good question. I think maybe it has to do with the routes typically being more run out. Or maybe some people have had bad or scary experiences by underestimating the insecurity of slab climbing (no big jug to shoot for most of the time). I agree that it seems to be a lost art. Personally I enjoy the mental challenge, but have to admit it is not my strongest climbing style.
I've never climbed any harder than 5.11 so I don't know if they could be harder than 5.12 or not, but I would think it is definitely possible, although hard for me to comprehend:]
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Jul 10, 2006 - 07:53pm PT
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This seems to have a lot to do with the rise of bouldering as the style of choice for the strongest young American climbers, and that same powerful style and love of the overhung being applied to sport climbing.
Viva la Slab! nothing else like it for climbing off the couch with nothing but technique on your side
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 10, 2006 - 07:58pm PT
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Yeah. Slab climbing doesn't reward fitness as much as steep rocks.
Hell, you actually have to know how to climb, to climb slab. WHich is why I steer clear of 'em.
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pFranzen
Boulder climber
Portland, OR
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Jul 10, 2006 - 08:02pm PT
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It's because of us slackers who are too cheap to re-sole our shoes. You ever tried to climb a slab with your big toe sticking out?
I think Johnny Dawes has some wicked 5.14 slabs over in England somewhere. I remember seeing pictures of them in an old issue of Climbing that made my head spin...
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Fluoride
Trad climber
California somewhere
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Jul 10, 2006 - 08:25pm PT
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"it is interesting that the hardest true slabs seem to be in the 5.12 range, and many such routes were established 20 years ago or more."
True slab climbs to be put up in good style require scary runout climbing, maybe standing there on some questionable edge/stance on a hook and a ladder while you take the time to hand drill a bolt. Heady, but unfortunately something not many climbers today would find fun by any means (which yay, more slab for those of us who want to go get scared and explore).
I have tremendous respect for people like Dan Dingle. He put up Crest Jewel (& CJ Direct) all on lead, all bolts hand drilled. He found gorgeous slab lines and made them work. Table of Contents on Stately Pleasure Dome is also one of his works of art. And also put up in that same proud style. TofC is one of my favorite slab lines in TM.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jul 10, 2006 - 08:36pm PT
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I really enjoy it. But have much less experience than I would like. And no leads worth mentioning in this august company.
I once tried a 5.10 slab problem in WV. A few bolts on a 50 foot sandstone slab. I was nowhere near good enough to send it then - feed were sliding inside shoes! Shoes would not stick. Not even a decent fingernail nub.
Stayed around to watch the next party try. One guy got about 5 feet higher by trying to work right from the first bolt. Pendulum run and rope jump. Yahoo!
That problem is now closed and bolts chopped, since the rock is poised to drop a few hundred feet into the Cheat River. And I wonder if I am good enough now :(
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hotspur
Social climber
santa cruz
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Jul 10, 2006 - 09:03pm PT
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Many answers to your questions, but points well taken. I am often dissed for gravitating toward slabs.
But to the point: "And why don't people climb hard slabs much any more? Is it just because they're too scary, or not trendy? "
I suspect that like many climbs in the valley (and elsewhere), years of rubber have polished the slabs so that what was once an intimidating climb now may seem unapproachable. For example, perhaps those of you that have been around can answer whether Energizer has always been so slick, or has it become more polished over the years?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 10, 2006 - 09:53pm PT
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I love slab climbing. Makes you think hard, and in the moment like Tai Chi, but you're not getting wickedly pumped ever moment (unless you count burning calves)
(although at it's limit, it's pretty stressful as you never know when you're going to slip off and falls can be long)
Yeah, I enjoy those Dingle routes are great.
But where's our own notorious Bruce Morris. He's a slab god didn't you know?
I used to enjoy the first 7 pitches of Hall of Mirrors. Now I'm too sane to brave the big falls on old bolts on that thing. You'd have to make hard 5.10 moves, one after another, 15 feet led out. If you started to fall, you'd sigh and think "Oh God, I have to climb that whole nightmare all over again"
Peace
Karl
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 11, 2006 - 12:51am PT
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from the '87 Meyers & Reid Yosemite Climbs climbing history section:
"As the free-climbing revolution developed in the 70’s, it became clearer that the potential for difficult new routes was not limited to crack climbs. With some minor exceptions (the Snake Dike and Peanut, among others), face and slab climbing had traditionally been the domain of Glacier Point Apron, where since the 1960’s bolts had been placed to protect the wandering slab climbing. The 70’s saw incredible development on the Apron, in large part due to the advent of friction shoes. The main participants in the early 70’s included Mike Breidenbach, Vern Cleavenger, Tom Harrison, and Rik Reider (who with Rabb Carrington produced in 1972 the most difficult and serious face route for the next seven or eight years – A Mother’s Lament). By the late 70’s, Bruce Morris and Chris Cantwell were attacking the right side of the Apron, producing many short but worthwhile routes. Unfortunately, many of the leading aficionados of Apron climbing have elected a boldless use of the bolt. In search of another route to the top of Glacier Point, in 1980 Cantwell, Morris, Scott Burke and Dave Austin completed work on a line that accomplished just that. Called the Hall of Mirrors, it involved several bolt ladders that have doubtfully been as free as reported. The 1980’s have seen further route development, but with the introduction of the new high-friction shoes, any routes of significance in the future must show far greater boldness."
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 11, 2006 - 01:35am PT
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Those routes depended on footwork, a lost art in the wake of sticky rubber.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jul 11, 2006 - 02:31am PT
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Gene Drake always told me he thought that old rubber worked better for thin dimes, esp in TM. Said a pair of EBs didn't roll off like all this 'new fangled' stuff. He was probably talking Fires....
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Blight
Social climber
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Jul 11, 2006 - 06:45am PT
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There are a couple of V15 ish boulder problems by Tokio Muroi which are slabs.
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Degaine
climber
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Jul 11, 2006 - 09:15am PT
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I agree, TOC is a wonderful slab route – thanks to Dingle for that one. Although I’ve taken huge whippers on the first pitch between the second an third bolts, I’d say the three bolted third pitch is the most exciting and obviously rarely done considering the rusted ¼” bolts in place (so far I’ve only seconded that pitch).
I agree with the OP that slab climbing is a lost art. Most neophytes started in the gym which does not really develop the slab style of climbing. Too bad, too, because I probably owe any meager footwork skill I may have to the slab climbing I have done.
As far as difficulty is concerned, maybe the relatively low angle nature of slab (compared to steeper face or overhanging climbing) that does not permit difficulties above the 5.12 range (but who am I to judge since I do not climb at that level, just postulating), with only a more vertical wall providing the level of difficulty necessary for a 5.14 grading.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Jul 11, 2006 - 09:42am PT
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At least among the Yosemite crowd I think that the rock fall risk of climbing on Glacier Point Apron has dampened the whole field. At least for myself GPA used to be my favorite area in the valley, particularly on semi rest days. Long runouts maybe, but slow falls. But I rarely go over there now. Seen pictures of the rock falls. Scary stuff. By the way, right side a Goodrich is a blast. Worth the risk evey now and then. :]
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 11, 2006 - 10:08am PT
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Warren Harding demonstrates smearing technique. Yosemite. 1976.
Table of Contents. Tuolumne.
Foot Note.
You got to stick your butt out.
Deucey on Sweet Nothings.
Al Dude is one of the few, still keeping the craft alive.
First ascent of The Arena. Tahoe.
He's got a stance and goes for the hammer.
Hand drilling from stance on the first ascent of Fight Fire With Fire. Echo Lakes.
First ascent of New Blood 5.12. Pieshop, Tahoe. Hand drilled from stance on lead.
Joshua Tree has slabs everywhere.
Tucker Tech. Slab climbing near Saddle Rocks.
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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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Jul 11, 2006 - 10:19am PT
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Sweet Photo's!!
I think slab climbing is still very much alive.....climb it all the time....Especially in TM.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 11, 2006 - 10:22am PT
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awesome pictures Blitzo!
the difference between slab and face sort a blurr at some angle, but Royal Arches slab/face area is a nice one too... I've surprised myself over there occasionally (not being able to read the fine print helps, can't tell the difference between .10a and .10b). Delicate feet, smearing leading to smedging leading to edging... just don't worry about what keeps you levitated too much.
Of course, there are a lot of Ed Leeper's old hangers up above the first pitches... but also some very very long routes.
And then there is Tuolumne!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 11, 2006 - 11:27am PT
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Back in the day of "the leader must not fall," slabs were just one more style.
In the day of "push until you come off and then try again," slabs (like squeeze chimneys) aren't very inviting.
I've enjoyed climbing slabs, but I wish there were a few more on the apron and up in Toulumne that were less runout--took one long skid on a slab (wore a hole in the bottom of my shoe that I could stick a finger through) and have no desire to do that again.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 11, 2006 - 11:30am PT
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i'm going to have to humbly disagree with you guys. i know many, many new-age boulderers who focus a great deal of their energy on standard-issue modern-day super-steep boulder problems, but who are also extraordinary skilled slab climbers. they seek out and send the most outrageously thin dime routes. little cottonwood canyon, in particular, may very well host the largest selection of the hardest slab climbs in america. mike beck, mike call, boone speed, steven jeffrey, lance bateman, sam tingey, and a host of others are doing unreal slab climbs -- super highball, V10 - V11 type stuff. routes like the "O face", "lance's scary slab," "big", the left side of the eastgate slab -- these are less-than-verticle slabs that involve classic roubidoux focus: extreme smearing, crimping down on holds so small they can hardly be seen -- beleive me, slab climbing is not a lost art, in fact i think these guys have advanced the art in the last few years -- but these guys also pretty much deliberately avoid the limelight and climb for the approval of their peers, not their "sponsors" -- they don't have any -- and so their accomplishments on the slabs are flying beneath the radar. there are lots of folks keeping the flame alive, but if you're not out there everyday in the trenches with them, you'd never know they existed.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 11, 2006 - 11:43am PT
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I still get on hard slab once in a while. I think the reason no one does it anymore is twofold. One, it hurts like hell; it hurts your fingers, it hurts your calves, it hurts your brain. Two, it just isn't as much fun as pulling steep positive holds. Even though I have put many hard slab routes up I don't enjoy doing them as much as I enjoy the steep pull so why should newer climbers?
As to the maximum difficulty, well I personally think that the ratings got a bit compressed in the eighties and if anyone ever does start climbing hard slab again they will re-rate a lot of the harder lines put up. The hardest slab route I was involved in putting up with Kris Solem was 'The Gold Standard' in Courtwright. At 12c it is almost impossible to climb. I got on it again a couple years ago and couldn't get to the top while I can regularly dog my way up 12c sport routes. This was WAY harder! I wouldn't be surprised to see some of these routes popped into the 13s someday.
The other issue is that some of these sorts of routes do get harder as they age. I was talking to Drew in Tuolomne last year and he had tried 'Mystery Achievement' and pulled a few holds off. I went out and looked at it and it may never go again. There were definitely more holds when I did it in 84.
It really is too bad that more people don't slab climbing. Maybe with the resurgence of 'Trad' climbing more people will decide to see what all the fun is about. I mean, you have never fallen until you've slid 40 or 50 feet down a polished granite slab!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 11, 2006 - 12:04pm PT
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or slid down 25 feet of cheese-grater slab then hit the ground, hard. you don't have to tie into a rope to experience hard, scary, dangerous slab climbing. there's a few pretty damn hard slab routes at the horn in the henry mountains that check in at 30+ feet.
new V8 slab established near flagstaff last april:
knee-knocker highball at the horn:
killer moderate highball slab, flagstaff, established last fall:
there's lots of new slabbage happening out there. you guys have your heads in the sand!
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Jul 11, 2006 - 12:33pm PT
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Bob is correct that hard slab bouldering is alive and well, but slab lead routes have languished for many years -- for many of the reasons cited above. Though occasional very hard slab moves are also still done on some Big Walls and as part of longer free climbs.
I also agree that grade compression has occured on many of the older test pieces. Hensel and Kevin Powell established some of the most difficult slab routes ever at Suicide Rock. Hensel's Someone You're Not though rated 5.13a is likely harder.
Precise footwork on small holds is an art that many do not learn anymore (and with softer shoes, is easily forgotten/hard to maintain in practice). As a result, slab climbs seem more insecure than in times past.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 11, 2006 - 01:48pm PT
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Shoes are becoming a bit of a problem too. No one is really making board lasted shoes anymore (except 5.10?) and without them doing full pitches of hard slab is almost unbearable. Softer shoes are fine for bouldering but it is almost impossible to have enough foot stamina to do a whole pitch with those softer shoes, and this is even more apparent if you try to stop and drill on stance.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 02:26pm PT
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Some interesting thoughts so far. We haven't strayed far into subjective discussions of grading systems, comparative grading (is a 5.12 slab harder than a 5.12 crack?), or what is a slab.
I tend to agree that there's some grade compression of slab routes done in the 1970s - 1980s. I'm not sure how they should be graded, but they're often PDH.
The pictures have all been good, also - I need a slide scanner! Allowing for photo angles, some of the boulder pictures didn't look particularly slabby - although they surely showed friction, balance and other requisites.
One thing about on-sight slab leads: the leader of the first ascent has an experience that no one else can ever have. I don't know if there's any other kind of rock climb you can say that about. A slab first ascent also often takes more effort and time than other kinds of on-sight rock climbs.
I still have pair of Boreal Ballets, resoled with Stealth rubber, for slab and face climbs. And another pair in reserve, so far unused. Maybe Acopa has something that fits this need?
Anders
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 11, 2006 - 02:56pm PT
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Seemed like a new slab climbing resurgence was taking place when people started attacking faces using a Bosch pulled up by the second with a pulley snapped to the leader's harness. When power drills were banned in National Parks and Monuments, this kind of new age slab climbing was stopped in its tracks.
I agree about the decline in the kind of shoes available for long slab type leads. The 5.10 Altia, even with cardboard lasts, was the best shoe for combining smearing and dime edges. Nothing around like that today.
Now, I stick to OW because it combines friction with high angle - modern maturity. It's also more like riding a road bike uphill.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 11, 2006 - 03:03pm PT
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This is a great thread!
ablegable had scoped out and put up a bunch of easier slab climbs in and around the Valley... these are "feeder climbs" to the harder stuff, getting people inured at the idea of running out the leads while chanting the mantra: friction is my friend. Sometimes we went back and put in bolts to knock down X protection to not more than R... there are occasional spicy bits that may peak at .10a, but most of the climbing is in the .7 to .9 range.
Hopefully many of these will show up in the new guide book, but I believe that topos may be available from ablegable for those interested...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 03:22pm PT
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Thanks, Ed. I thought of entitling this "The Fine Art of Leading Slabs", but people might have confused it with dirtineye's thread from a few weeks back about seconds.
I once did a fair amount of cycling, and found it very good training for slab climbing, and indeed all types of climbing and mountaineering. You get very strong calves.
The more moderate slab climbs at Squamish often puzzle new climbers. Put up with EBs and 1/4" bolts on lead, often on less than clean rock. Now the rock is clean, there's sticky rubber, and new climbers are used to routes established on rappel, with frequent protection. So they ask why there aren't more bolts, e.g. every few metres, or at least bolts at what are now feasible stances but may not have been in the past. A little education and history usually sets them straight. There are a few well-protected slab routes, but even the moderate ones often have long runout sections that are only a bit easier than the crux. As is often observed, you can see what you're getting into from the ground, you can read about it in the guide, and if you don't care for it no one's making you do it.
I was worried the thread might be diverted into a quasi-religious discussion of what is and isn't a slab. Though it does slightly increase the percentage of threads that are climbing-related.
Anders
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 11, 2006 - 03:29pm PT
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some of the boulder pictures didn't look particularly slabby - although they surely showed friction, balance and other requisites."
anders, let's say for the purpose of this discussion anything less than vertical (90 degrees), which is also footwork-intensive and requires good crimping strength, is a "hard slab".
for example: "how's yer papa" and "how's yer momma" at josh, along with stuff like "once upon a dime", also at josh, or "blue suede shoes" in the valley, epitomize hard slab. and all these climbs are pretty close to vertical - 80 - 90 degrees.
side note: quicksilver and freewheelin' -- for roped slab, does it get much better than that? ( besides suicide, i mean...)
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 11, 2006 - 03:51pm PT
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The one thing that did change with the advent of hooking and power drills is that the pro on slab routes did get closer together. Once it became ok to hook, you were no longer faced with the prospect of screaming calves while trying to drill. Add in the power drill and a bolt only takes 10 minutes and it is a 3/8" too. Look at Courtwright for some fine examples of routes put up during this time period, The Gold Standard is 6 bolts and a belay in only maybe 50 feet of climbing but it took 2 days to put up and get a clean ascent. There are some well protected routes on Dutzy Dome too.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 03:55pm PT
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I agree - if it's less than ninety degrees (vertical), it could be a slab. But doesn't have to be. As for the crimping part - let's ask the resident guru, Crimpergirl.
Anders
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Matt M
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 11, 2006 - 04:02pm PT
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shoes are a major gripe with me as well. My megas were ALMOST a perfect slab shoe except that sling shot rand at the heel left you CRIPPLED in pain after several pitches. Hear that Sportiva?!? Make a mega without the sligshot! oh wait - they don't sell it in the USA any more....
shoes can be KEY though. Slab vary a lot and different shoe work on different slabs (smooth slab Glacier Apron, rough slab Squamish apron, Edgy slab TM, etc etc)
I asked my buddy once about his ascent of Hall of Mirrors. How did he climb hard slab and get good at. "You need to become a conesiour of shoes," he said. "I've owned 32 different pairs in my carreer. I used 3 differnt ones on that route and a different one on each foot for one pitch." Sage advise - there are slabs I used my Mocs, slabs I used my miuras and slabs I used my Megas.
Slab Shoe of choice right now? Sportiva Cliffs!
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Matt M
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jul 11, 2006 - 04:19pm PT
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Now that we seem to have some slab vets on here. (sweet!). Let's discuss the slab topic that never seems to have an answer. Falls. When you're 30+ feet out and looking at the big slide (Me on P3 of Dream On in Squam) my mind focuses on NOT FALLING - Period. Someday as I climb harder stuff (I bailed to U. Symphony and rapped below the 11b when it got too hot - weak sauce was thick that day!) that big slide will come and no one really says "do this" or "do that" Whats' the word from vets who have "taken the big slide"
Regarding angle - I think it need to be less than 80 degrees - even 70. 80 is darn steep and to most seems vertical. Almost all those bouldering shots look like steep, technical face climbs to me. I see this tendency a lot with my younger friends when I boulder - if it's not overhanging they often call it "slabby!" yikes. HArd to define but if your hips are hugging the rock, more often than not, I;d call is steep face not slab.
But back to the good stories... Ahh the time I thought I was on the 3 bolt 5.9 on the upper apron but was really on a Peter Croft 1 bolt 10 = I bailed right and the 40ft between my last bolt and the anchor was the longest lead of my life. I marked every good crystal and moved with care like I've never done before or since. Imagine my despair as my partner PADS up the route not even having the decency to crimp a SINGLE hold. Just smears the thing! That was the only time I bailed because I was mentally drained and actually felt ill. Still, I'll go back and complete it someday....
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 04:48pm PT
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Slab falls.
1. Don't fall.
2. Don't f*g fall!
3. Don't even think about falling. Like some other things, a lot of slab climbing happens as much in the brain as elsewhere. (Modern climbers may have difficulty understanding that falling is sometimes not a good idea, as even with reliable bolts it can have real consequences.)
4. If you do fall, usually you know it's coming - the deer in the headlights routine. If you can persuade yourself that you're not going to fall, maybe you won't. If you do fall, the suppressed subconscious part that knew it all along will be a bit readier. A "controlled" slab fall isn't a total oxymoron.
5. Slide, never tumble or roll. Rubber is way easier to replace than skin etc - trust me, I also used to bike race.
6. Wear a helmet - if you do tumble, guess what body bit is most vulnerable? Real men wear helmets when slab climbing. Trousers and long sleeve shirts may also be advisable.
7. If the angle is low enough/the fall is short enough/you're fast and nimble enough, you can run. But you may have to run really really fast, and if you trip on something or the rope, you're going to be sorry.
8. Be nice to the second! (Dirtineye: any ideas?) Slab falls often happen slowly enough, with low enough impacts, that an alert and happy second can suck in a fair bit of the rope. Works best with hip belays, ok with belay devices, not so hot with grigris. Although sucking in rope may increase the fall factor, even if it reduces the distance fallen. The leader, in her/his semi-controlled fall, may also be surprised to be pulled up short. But this is a tactic to actively consider.
9. Scrapes, bruises, and lower limb injuries are easily acquired. It's surprising how un-smooth many slabs are, and how many little thingies there are waiting to trip or ding you.
My longest slab fall was 20 metres or so, at Squamish long ago. The spectators cheered and hooted. Which in an adolescent male sort of way discourages falling also.
Anders
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Jul 11, 2006 - 04:55pm PT
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favorite fall? the "I'm OFF . . . . maybe not"
tipping all the way to standing straight up, no hands, then slowly stopping. oddest moment of balance.
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Off White
climber
Tenino, WA
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Jul 11, 2006 - 05:07pm PT
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Matt's story from the Apron reminds me of Deep Throat on that lovely piece of stone. If memory serves, there's a 90' 5.9 pitch with a single 1/4" bolt roughly halfway with a ribbon of smoothed over quartz dike for a clipping stance. I recall hitting the dike some distance from the bolt and having to pad over to it aways. Leading, you're hooking these micro edges with your fingernails and paying very close attention. With the blessing of a rope from above and suction faith and friction you can just pad up with palms flat on the stone.
The apron on Squamish Chief is pretty great too, but as noted, a very different flavor from the Glacier Point Apron. We wound up following some line of unknown bolts out right of Unfinshed, only to wind up with some fellow rapping down from above some pitches up scrubbing away -- seems the route wasn't finished yet. Dirty Little White Boys maybe? Hard for sure, but not run out for slab climbing.
Heh, slab thread needs a picture. I think it's Ephemeral Clogdance on GPA.
and the Dike Route in Tuoloumne, a venerable classic.
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pFranzen
Boulder climber
Portland, OR
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Jul 11, 2006 - 05:10pm PT
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This thread is making my palms sweaty.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2006 - 05:19pm PT
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PF: ROTFLMAO! So true.
Anders
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 11, 2006 - 05:22pm PT
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For those long slab falls, go back to older gear. There is just nothing better for keeping you upright at the end of that fall than a good swami that has pulled up around your chest. And if the belayer is ok with it a hip belay is ok with me, just make sure you use a biner on both sides of your waist and know how to wrap.
It used to be the rule that you just didn't fall. That mindset got us up those climbs. That is the real trick, just 'don't fall'. On the advice of a good friend I once lead 'Tune Up' in the Meadows. The second pitch has three 40' runouts in a row. The real problem is that the rock is so magnificient and is comprised of little crystal shelves. They are too smooth, point ever so slightly downhill, and are just a little too small, and there is not a good crimper 'thank god!' edge anywhere up there where you can stop and say to yourself that you are safe, for the moment. I couldn't even climb the next day I was so mentally fried. BUT, I didn't fall! There isn't any other venue that teaches you the rules better than Tuolomne Meadows either.
Is the Bachar-Yerian a slab route? Doesn't matter, the rules are the same; don't fall.
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Joe Metz
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jul 11, 2006 - 05:30pm PT
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I've stopped slab falls by quickly resetting a foot. Taking small steps in desperate situations is also helpful - sliding back to a tenuous position from an even more tenuous situation feels SOOOOO good when the last bolt is way back over the horizon somewhere...
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mooch
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jul 11, 2006 - 05:54pm PT
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Jan -
"I still get on hard slab once in a while."
Didn't you really mean....."I still get a hard on once in a while."
See you at Courtright ;)
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 11, 2006 - 06:57pm PT
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Who the heck is Mooch? Nah, I get those nearly every day. After all, I climb in gyms now days.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jul 11, 2006 - 07:27pm PT
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bvb: You are the man with the killer pics. (Hey dude, I’m bouldering to get ready for ya...)
Regarding the earlier grade compression comments about older routes: more like grade inflation has made them look compressed. Changing the ratings won’t change the reality of their difficulty.
As Largo once told KP when talking about a dicey move at the end of a long runout:
[KP] Man, if you pitched from there…
[JL] You don’t pitch from there.
[KP] But, what if you did pitch from there?
[JL] You don’t.
[KP] But, if you did p…
[JL] You don’t!
[KP] Yeah, bu…
[JL] Ho Man! You just DON’T pitch from there!
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mooch
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jul 11, 2006 - 08:03pm PT
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Here's a hint Jan:
The better half is in Iraq.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 11, 2006 - 08:05pm PT
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I would not disagree about the ratings Henny, but I feel that they will get re-rated at some point because the world has moved on and those things are not the same difficulty, by today's standards, than a sport route with a similar rating is. It will be another generation of climbers that make those decisions though, so it doesn't really matter what we think.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 11, 2006 - 08:07pm PT
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love the slab talk...
...it's not even that you "don't fall" when I climb slab, I am concentrating on moving, nothing else. When I am in the zone the bolt appears in my constrained field-of-view, I clip it, and keep moving. I don't look to the next bolt, I don't look at the last bolt, I just move.
Gary was starting up a slab route at the base of Tollhouse Rock a few winters ago, and lost it... he slid down, maybe 10 to 12 feet standing up. When he stepped off the slab at the ground we smelled burning rubber. No shit!
Anyone done Demimonde 5.11c The Royal Arches Serenity Crack Area FA 1991, Eric Mayo, Andy Roberts, Dave Caunt, Rick Harlin?
My toes hurt from that jewel... didn't even get to the hard part. You can TR it after climbing Trial By Fire 5.8, a nice little offwidth pitch.
Don't see many people on either of these routes much.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Jul 11, 2006 - 08:10pm PT
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My partner Richard Aschert and I did a new 13a/b slab route in the S. Platte a few years back. It also has 12b/c and 12a slab pitches.
Seems pretty hard to me.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 11, 2006 - 08:40pm PT
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Yea, I did Demimonde with Eric Mayo way back when. It was hard. R. Harlin was on that one with Caunt and Eric? Surprises!
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Karen
Trad climber
Good question?
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Jul 12, 2006 - 12:42am PT
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I admire individuals who can climb hard slabs ANYDAY over sport routes!!! It always irks me when I hear certain types call slab climbing, "stink bugging"... seems anyone with some training can get up over-hanging jug routes, put em' on slabs and they will piss their Pranas !!!!
Hall of Mirrors....WOW...remember an article years back on this route in one of the climbing mags, it has been a climb that has held alure for me, beautiful slabs that seems to go on forever. Then the first time I saw Pywiak dome in T-Meadows, I knew I had to climb the routes on that dome~did~amazing !!! The Dike route, Needle Spoon, even that easy route Z-Tree was fun....
Woody and I climbed the first pitch of Crimes of Passion on Tahquitz last weekend and I tell ya' it sure seemed harder than 10b, it felt more like a D.
also, have to make a comment on "face" climbing with crimper holds, I just cannot call that "slab", to me a slab is pure friction, I am sure someone will disagree...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 12, 2006 - 02:12am PT
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I hate to give my secrets away but Galactic Hitchiker is a really fun route with only 3 or 4 kinda dicey or lead out sections that should trouble a solid 5.10 leader much.
Short approach, 26 pitches if you run them together, hitchhike down from Glacier point to descend
Topo and TR's on my website in the freeclimbing trip reports section
http://www.yosemiteclimber.com/TripReportfree.html
Peace
Karl
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 12, 2006 - 02:20am PT
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I heard somewhere that the Bachar Yerian might get chopped!
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 12, 2006 - 02:25am PT
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Here's some hand drilling on the first pitch of "Mid-Life Crisis" in the Arches Terrace Area:
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 12, 2006 - 02:32am PT
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Somewhere on the apron. 1975.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Jul 12, 2006 - 02:41am PT
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 12, 2006 - 02:51am PT
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Midlife Crisis was great, until the second pitch with the, now very rusty, hangers... came down without pushing through happy to get the first pitch many years ago (maybe 5?).
Cool to see the bolts going in...
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 12, 2006 - 04:04am PT
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So many bolts on the second pitch of M-L Crisis that the quantity outweighs the pseudo-objective danger. One quarter-inch bolt can break, but two, almost never, three, impossible
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 12, 2006 - 11:17am PT
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....I know, I was telling myself that, over and over, but the mind is a funny thing, at least mine is, and once you get that little worm in there churning 'round 'n 'round, it can be difficult to go on. There is a long trail of bolts, and it should be fine, up until the second unclips the last one and the team is dependent on the anchor bolts.
There I go again...
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 12, 2006 - 11:35am PT
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I'm telling you, a lot of folks would be in for a very rude awakening if they went to Suicide and jumped up a couple of those Henny routes, done about 25 years ago now.
Also, there's a route on Royal Arches called Greasy but Groovy that had some sensational slab climbing and on-the-lead bolting. Wonder if anyone ever does this one. Those bolts are like coffin nails now. You should have seen Ricky Accomazzo out on the lead on that one--sometimes fifty feet above the last bolt on 5.10, and liking it.
JL
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Jul 12, 2006 - 12:00pm PT
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I gotta agree that thin face and slab are two different things, though it's always so hard to judge actual angle from pics. I know it's a blurry line between steep 5.hard slab and 5.12 thin face, but to me the distinguising factor is whether the cruxes are accomplished through megacrimping or footwork. Does that make sense to anybody else?
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 12, 2006 - 12:07pm PT
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That makes sense. You know your really slab climbing when your smearing with your feet and pushing with your palms instead of crimping edges.
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Dragon with Matches
climber
Bamboo Grove
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Jul 12, 2006 - 12:49pm PT
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Although I suck at slabs and avoid them too much, I do love the satisfaction that seems to come with every move... and is amplified by exposure. Those runouts where every move gets scarier... yet feels better than the last.
Onsighting the first pitch of "Stampede" at Cochise was 11a slab breakthrough for me, yet far less satisfying than leading Needle Spoon because the former has fatties every bodylength.
I also backed off a pitch on Great Pumpkin at a time when I was casually soloing 5.10+ fingercracks. Positively lame.
I look forward to getting old and decrepit and forced to climb slabs more.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 01:03pm PT
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"I gotta agree that thin face and slab are two different things, though it's always so hard to judge actual angle from pics. I know it's a blurry line between steep 5.hard slab and 5.12 thin face, but to me the distinguising factor is whether the cruxes are accomplished through megacrimping or footwork. Does that make sense to anybody else?"
if this is our criteria then we've defined slab climbing in a very, very narrow way, and eliminated from the "slab" category pretty much every single route at suicide, including the 5.8's on the weeping wall, as well as most everything at roubidoux and woodson. all those venues require precision footwoork in tandem with serious dime-edge crimping abilities.
standard woodson slab. note fierce crimping going on:
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 12, 2006 - 01:06pm PT
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I don't really find it useful to make the distinction between slab and thin edging either. On a slab route I will crimp to death any hold I find so what's the difference? Besides, most of the really hard slab routes mentioned are pretty damn crimpy. If you aren't crimping on every available speck then it probably isn't harder than about 11a. Go to Suicide and do Seasons End (11c) and tell me you aren't crimping like mad. And that is about the slabbiest harder route I can think of.
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Richard Large
climber
where you least expect
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Jul 12, 2006 - 01:13pm PT
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The falling definition....
If, when you fall, you...
A: Smell burning rubber -- you are climbing slab.
B: Hear the wind whistling past your ears like a jumbo jet -- you are climbing steep face.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 01:17pm PT
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exactly. the 11c direct finish to season's end is hella low angle, about as low-angle as suicide gets, but it's so damn bald you're crimping like a fiend on fingernail-width edges. kevin powell's woodson masterwork "lemon chiffon" is another good example. damn thing is so low-angle you can practically stay in place by laying spread-eagled out flat on the slab, but if you want to make upward progress you'd better suck it up and get ready to crimp n' smear. like a demon, i say!
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Jul 12, 2006 - 01:26pm PT
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Right, I'm not saying crimping in slab = crying in baseball. I'm just saying that I think the dividing line has to do with whether the crux is standing on nothin' with your palms on the wall 3 moves in a row, or locking off on two fingernails. To me, anything where the crux depends on your footwork and balance and not your crimp strength is slab. I guess that does maybe put a theoretical limit on the route difficulty that could be called slab, but I'm not happy with any other criteria for distinguishing slab from face.
I mean, none of this is that big of a deal, I'm just as happy to be climbing it no matter what you call it, and I'm damn sure never going to be climbing anything at .13b.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Jul 12, 2006 - 01:27pm PT
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The new 13a/b that Richard and I did has fierce crimping, palming and smearing going on. What a good slab climb should have.
Slab climbing isn't cool...they don't teach it in the gyms.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jul 12, 2006 - 01:34pm PT
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Once upon a time, early Fire days, I attempted to lead the second pitch of Ephemeral Clogdance (?) I think. I led out from the belay, clipped a bolt and went, The Wrong Way! Details escape me now, but there was some sort of major clue like I was Way runout, and there was a friendly looking bolt or anchor fifty feet off to the side, and my belayer saying, "I think you should have gone over there!"
I set my sights on some likely looking feature and grimly climbed on.
And popped!
I turned and ran for the bleay having heard you could do that. I came down faster than the rope, while Will made a heroic effort of yarding slack, sucking in multiple arm spans of limp rope. But then, I trippped over some kind of tiny six inch roof and my glasses fell off, I caught 'em, and completely lost my footing, hit the slab with my side, and slid to the belay, caught by an old quarter incher.
All of this did not go unobserved, by Some Guy at the base (that Bruce Morris guy).
"Nice!(or words to that effect)," he yelled up. "Go for it!"
"I dunno, that was a big fall for me I thinks it's time to go have a.. beer."
"It's just a slider!"
We bailed.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Jul 12, 2006 - 01:43pm PT
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Wow -- now people are sub-dividing slab climbing? Small holds, precision footwork and less than vertical terrain define slab climbing. Very few slab routes fall into the pure friction variety where there are no positive holds for hands or feet.
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Jul 12, 2006 - 04:04pm PT
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Courtright Resevoir ... Power Dome
Mid-Wife Crisis, Helm's Deep - felt like paddling up-stream without paddles.
Welcome to Courtright, A Little Nukey - much nicer (aka easier).
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handsome B
Gym climber
Saskatoon, Saskatchawan
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Jul 12, 2006 - 04:16pm PT
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Slim Pickin's Hueco
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 04:18pm PT
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slim pickins. yes.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 12, 2006 - 06:36pm PT
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Me slabbin, old style.
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Sioux Juan
Big Wall climber
Costa Mexico
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:01pm PT
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S T is that nirvana ? or valhalla ?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:19pm PT
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Two of best "slab" climbs I've done are over near Arches Terrace in an area Reid & Falk omitted from the latest Valley guide:
"Movin' Like a Stud" (5.10d) and "Benzoin and Edges" (5.10c)
Put up by Timpson, Don Harter, Bob Crawford, Rick LeDuc and the Washingtonian crowd. Only 5.10, but oh my Gawd! Glad I got Greg Murphy to lead them for me, so that I could mark them off in the book and never go back up there. Pie crusts on pie crusts. Same kind of thing as "Greasy But Groovy" (which I was told by someone who did it to avoid at all costs).
I bet you'll never have to wait in line for any of those climbs.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:30pm PT
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Nice hat!
Falling on a slab climb is like crashing a motorcycle only it is all in reverse. On a bike you are going fast, you slide to a stop. When climbing you are standing still then you get sliding faster and faster.
There are only two types of climbs. The ones you can do and the ones you can't do. Real MEN crank slabs.
I just love the steep climbs in the ORG that end with a short slab at the top. Fun to watch "crankboy5.13" fire the 5.11D steep section then start wimpering at the 10b slabby part.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:37pm PT
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Both! Ha ha ha. Valhala, this was my entrance exam. Photo by Mike Waugh.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:45pm PT
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It was easy with FIRE!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:54pm PT
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Valhalla. Accept No Substitutes.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:55pm PT
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That's classic sh#t there...BVB.
Nice shoes.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 07:57pm PT
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mungeclimber bearing down on "lemon chiffon" at mount woodson.
slab, or thin face?
we report, you decide.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:01pm PT
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Bob, love that shot -- the doubled biners are true era style.
Jan, Vahalla was an entrance exam (and nirvana) of sorts.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:16pm PT
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(c)ABSOLUTE Slab
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:29pm PT
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bvb, help me out here bro... after reading this thread I'm really confused. what's a slab? what's a thin face? are they the same thing or are they different? how big do the holds need to be before they're no longer "thin"? is it still a slab if it's low angle and has big holds? hey, lemon chiffon has a thin crack on it - can it still be called a slab/face or should it be called something else? i've spent years doing this kind of climbing and now i have no idea what it is that i did or what i am doing (ok, so that's not really new, but you get the point). i'm so lost... can ya help?
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:36pm PT
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Yeah, good Valhalla picture, bvb. Hey... there's a cam on the rack (note the era gear sling also). Is Valhalla a crack climb?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:49pm PT
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dammitt darryl, now you've got me confused. hey, i got an idea...let's start a slab vs. thin face thread over on rockclimbing.com! i'm sure the crag intelligentsia over there can sort this all out for us!
"Hey... there's a cam on the rack"
fall '78, alan nelson brought that thing from jardine for $18 bucks...he was soooo proud of it, we even took it on climbs that had no cracks....DOHT!
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Jul 12, 2006 - 08:55pm PT
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henny wrote: bvb, help me out here bro... after reading this thread I'm really confused. what's a slab? what's a thin face?
I'am the other Bob.
BVB last picture is a steep face...not a slab.
BVB..this is a SLAB boulder.
All sport wankers think anything under 90 degrees is a slab. LOL
BVB..how is that wonderful family of your??
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 12, 2006 - 09:22pm PT
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Darrell said: "bvb, help me out here bro... after reading this thread I'm really confused. what's a slab? what's a thin face? are they the same thing or are they different? how big do the holds need to be before they're no longer "thin"? is it still a slab if it's low angle and has big holds?"
Classic Valhalla shots, gents. The Dress Whites are especially nice, Jan! (Who's your tailor?)
And, I'm guessing the Friend on the BVB rack was used as self-defense to fight-off the Woodson groupies waiting for them at the sumwhat...
and bob d'antonio said; "BVB last picture is a steep face...not a slab."
Slabs. Thin-face. It's all how you look at it... (Right?) Tip your head, Bob. Without the tilt-foolery, that BVB shot looks pretty slabby/facey to me...
To wit:
You be the judge...
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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Jul 12, 2006 - 09:27pm PT
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Great photo's...however a number of those "slab" climbs, look to be face climbs to me.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2006 - 09:42pm PT
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Thanks for the discussion and pictures, especially the great ones from Valhalla! That route is so hallowed, and so often mentioned in ST land (Stonemaster Stories...), that it was nice to see pictures of it.
Discussion of what exactly and precisely is and isn't a slab climb may be better saved for one of the many religious discussion threads. All I can say is that I know one when I see one. Though I'll certainly admit that distinguishing between slab climbing/friction and crimping is sometimes like counting angels on pin heads. Or teaching a pig to dance - may only waste your time and annoy the pig. There's not many slab climbs where you don't do a bit of crimping - and darn few crimpy face climbs where friction isn't important.
Anders
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jul 12, 2006 - 10:00pm PT
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I thought that slab meant not more than 5 bolts per full pitch and often only 2 or 3 bolts per pitch. The optimum at 4 per pitch. the ropes were shorter then so a pitch was 150 or 165ft. I only climb 5.9 friction so it probobly is a bit diferent for the grades you guys are doing. We have a great slab bak east. 700ft of granit coming ringht out of Lake George. awsom canoe paddle of about a mile to the cliff and climbing right off the water. That lake suer does feel good after getting your feet fried off on that black granit..... How do you post a photo?? thanks
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 12, 2006 - 10:02pm PT
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Yeah, Henny and I were just talking on the phone... And we both agree that we haven't a clue about where slabbing stops and facing begins. Maybe there isn't clear a demarkation point. (Must consult with our spiritual advisor.)
To my mind, Valhalla ain't no slab. Never was. It's too steep; too crimpy at the cruxes. And certainly, if it's less that vertical that doesn't automatically qualify it as a slab! "Someone You're Not" and "Calienté" are less that vertical, and NO ONE has EVER called them slabs!
How 'bout this... If the photo shows a climber with taped knuckles and fingers, then by definition the route can't be a slab.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Jul 12, 2006 - 10:27pm PT
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Robs, I don't think KP gets off work until tomorrow. So we'll need to wait till then to talk to our "spirtual advisor". He should be able to set us straight.
Semantics, semantics. Maybe "Someone You're Not" and "Caliente" which are less than vertical are "steep slabs"?
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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Jul 12, 2006 - 10:31pm PT
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The first time I got to thinking about this, was when someone referred to "Loose Lady," in Josh. as a slab climb.
In my opinion, if you are putting your fingers over edges and your shoes are not smearing...it is certainly not a slab climb.
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 12, 2006 - 11:16pm PT
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Henny said: "...we'll need to wait till then to talk to our 'spirtual advisor'"
Bwah, hah, hah! Maybe YOUR spiritual advisor... That new testament moaner is in serious need of a guru, himself! :-)
Now, a truly Old Testament slab god worthy of veneration was Larry "Lawrence of Monrovia" Reynolds... That guy, with significant bulk, could really use that weight to good effect on padding slabs! ...could really get those Kronies to stick on to those divots.
We should get KP to organize a seance. (He's good at organizing parties.) If we can't contact Larry, maybe Kevin can channel Couch, Dent or Powell, and coax some real spiritual guidance from beyond the Great Lieback That Lasts.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:00am PT
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"Robs, I don't think KP gets off work until tomorrow. So we'll need to wait till then to talk to our "spirtual advisor". He should be able to set us straight"
goddammitt henny, we can't wait that long! call dispatch or raise him on the satellite phone! we need to know NOW!!111! i'll be tossin' and turnin' all night waiting for the oracle to speak!!!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:22am PT
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of course there is no resolution...
if you are in a corner and stemming, using mostly friction, is that slab?
if you are in a chimney and your counter pressuring off of friction, is that slab? (Bruce said it's really slab...)
it is really meaningless, we use slab technique in lots of places that are not slab, and similarly we use face technique in lots of places that aren't considered face.
The bit of Hoodwink above the roof was interesting for me, mostly I used slab technique but it was pretty vertical next to the bolt ladder, a soft corner so counter pressure worked. I smeared and fricitioned and palmed like a demon, and got up it pretty nicely, to the facey stuff above the last bolt, lower angle ground.
We know slab when we see it, even if we use face technique to get up it...
The Apron, slab; Royal Arches apron, slab... don't matter how.
Anyway, that's my take.
The pictures make me want to go out climbing now, have to wait for the weekend...
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estwing
Trad climber
montreal
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:37am PT
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This thread has got to be one of the best in recent history.
That said I have to ask what allows some people to seemingly stand on nothing, then move to the next spot of nothing, while I am stuck on seemingly blank 5.10 slab sections. The other guys don't appear to be doing anything visibly different, yet they are moving up, not down. What is the secret?
Definetly agree about the quality of routes on the apron in squamish, my summer there was great, wish I had been able to climb even more!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2006 - 12:49am PT
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Can I have my gold star now, please? The one that ST gives to everyone who initiates a climbing-related thread with more than 100 posts? Only four of which are mine, including the first.
Anders
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:50am PT
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The Weeping Wall stuff and Rebolting Development are slabs. Same with the most of the really hard stuff at Rubidoux.
To take an extreme example, To Bolt or Not To Be at Smith is thin face. 120' of dead vertical. Not all dime edges, but not much bigger than a door jamb.
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scuffy b
climber
Chalet Neva-Care
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Jul 13, 2006 - 11:49am PT
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Whether it's thin face or slab depends on the frequency that you
hear:
"I f*#kin hate slab..I f*#kin hate slab..I f*#kin hate slab.."
Not so much on the 80-85 degree stuff.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:25pm PT
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Great thread!
As much as possible I try not to use chalk. But sitting here reading this, "I know I have a problem."
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handsome B
Gym climber
Saskatoon, Saskatchawan
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:34pm PT
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mooch
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:39pm PT
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Damn Jan.....how old were you when you did Valhalla?
And, yes, Valhalla is a STEEP slab climb. Come off it and find out!!
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:48pm PT
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I propose that 'If you can let go with both hands without falling off' then it's a slab route. That means that anything over about 80 degrees is not gonna qualify because you are gonna fall over backwards.
Estwing, it is all 'make believe'! When we told you it was also mental power that got you up thin face, what did you think we meant? It is all about your ability to put your foot there and 'make believe' that it will stay. If you believe hard enough it works, if you don't, you fall, every time. Just like Peter f*#king Pan or the little engine that could. If you want it bad enough, you can have it. Oh, and the ability to pull like a mad fiend really helps.
Oh, and KP has lost his mantle of guruhood. He has lost his ability to believe in himself and his powers to make up his own reality. We need a new guru!
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:50pm PT
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Slab vs. Face.
Maybe it is not the angle of the rock, but the angle of your center of gravity to your feet?
Clearly when CG to feet goes beyond vertical, the crimp is providing a necessary "x" component (or the x component is "more important" than the "y" component).
The problem with this definition is climbing a well inclined latter could be done as a "slab".
Oh well...
Edit:
I was writing this while above was posted.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 13, 2006 - 12:50pm PT
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Mooch (Dave?) I was probably 24 or 25 in that photo which would make it 1974 when I was allowed into the club. You do have to realize that I got 'carded' until I was 40 when the wrinkles finally overcame the baby face.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Jul 13, 2006 - 01:46pm PT
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So I've been following this fine thread with much interest, and in hope that it hasn't lost it's momentum, would some of the "slab vets" posting here speak to the following loosely historical question(s):
When climbers started putting up slab climbs (assuming most of the obvious trad lines had already been climbed), was there any ever disdain among some of the climbing community? In other words, was there ever any accusations of pure slab climbs as being "contrived"?
I imagine there were slab sections to climbs - where crossing blankness was used to link up more prominent natural features, but was there a point where slab climbing became less of a means to an end, and accepted as legitimate climbs unto themselves? Did acceptance come slowly and reluctantly? One of the reasons I ask is because, as Nefarius alluded to above, WoS on El Cap, was not highly regarded in it's day (among the so called elite, that is). So, if heading up into blankness (or the most subtle of features) was not acceptable in aid climbing, was there any similiar disdain for free climbs up slabs? Very curious...
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 13, 2006 - 02:16pm PT
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Nate, I am not sure the right people are here to answer that question for you. You would really need to talk to Higgins and Kamps and people from that era. Most of us here started climbing in the 70s or later and by then slab climbing was already going strong, especially for those of us in SoCal where the test pieces of the day were slab climbs at Suicide or Josh.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Jul 13, 2006 - 02:21pm PT
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"I propose that 'If you can let go with both hands without falling off' then it's a slab route. That means that anything over about 80 degrees is not gonna qualify because you are gonna fall over backwards"
there is still a distinction between falling backwards and sliding off. i have been on plenty of slabs where i could let go and hangout sometimes, but other times (i.e. steeper or harder sections) where if i gave uo a palm or a fingernail or a thumb mantle, i would surely have slid into oblivion. would your definition call that face clibing? i disagree.
further, if you are on a low angle face climb (i am thinking easy routes at ORG) where you are clearly climbing on holds and edges and whatnot, often you can let go and hangout, but that ain't slab climbing. by your definition, bottomless topless is a slab route too.
for a climb (or section or move) to be slab, you have to be relying primarily upon friction for purchase. that seems to be a fairly simple definition. anything other than friction, you are then climbing "crack on slab", etc.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Jul 13, 2006 - 02:28pm PT
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Ed - (our resident librarian), do you recall if Higgins ever wrote anything on the matter?
It's a long shot, but I'm crossing my fingers that LongAgo will post up...
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 13, 2006 - 02:41pm PT
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i don't think there was anything but amazment and respect for the climbers who pioneered modern slab routes. the early ones that kamps and company did at tahquitz were fearsome, respected, and coveted by all the top climbers of the day. and in roper's green guide to the valley, he writes with reverence about the breakthrough route "coonyard", which i beleive he referred to as the "first of a series of 'impossible' slab routes put up on the glacier point apron."
btw, vis-a-vis the slab vs. face question: there are PLENTY of edging sections on coonyard, you are crimping for your life, and without those crimps these 5.9 sections would be more like the hard pitches on hall of mirrors. i recall the first 40' of the second-to-last pitch on coonyard being very run-out, continuous 5.9 edging.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jul 13, 2006 - 02:50pm PT
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Wendall Broussard of Vegas told me a story a few years ago about how he met this kid in the gym who did wonders on overhanging 1 finger pull up type of stuff. They agreed to go climbing in Red Rocks.
Wendall leads Frictiony Face Panty Waist (5.9 or so, no definite crux but all on the feet). The kid has a hard time seconding it because he was not used to that style. At the top WB says "How hard do you think that was?"
Kid says " I don't know, maybe 13a"
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 13, 2006 - 03:25pm PT
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"Wow -- now people are sub-dividing slab climbing? Small holds, precision footwork and less than vertical terrain define slab climbing. Very few slab routes fall into the pure friction variety where there are no positive holds for hands or feet."
"That said I have to ask what allows some people to seemingly stand on nothing, then move to the next spot of nothing, while I am stuck on seemingly blank 5.10 slab sections. The other guys don't appear to be doing anything visibly different, yet they are moving up, not down. What is the secret?"
I think we need a name for those climbs that are 60 degrees, polished, and may or may not have micro crimpers. For me, it has always been slabs. A 80 face that you can edge/crimp up with board lasted shoes is [surprise] a face climb, not a slab.
When I was working with my parnter on getting better at slabs, I tried to figure out why he could causally move up slabs that I couldn't stand still on.
I think it is several things:
You climb hard slabs very gracefully or you don't climb them at all. On a hard, overhanging crack climb, you can tell the leader is working at it. On a hard slab climb, the lead is more likely to look effortless until the point they start sliding down. So he wasn't climbing as causally as it looked.
I go for soft shoes and curl my toes down and around any sort of irregularity or less slopy part of the slab. I find the Mythos work well.
Even on perfectly smooth/uniform slabs (which are rare) you can still "grip" the rock by frictioning your fingers (I often place my hand with spread fingers and then friction by trying to squeeze the fingers together).
All movements with perfect balance. Don't high step unless it is to a much, much better foot hold.
When I get close to my limit, I notice that sometimes my feet literally start "buttering off" even the lower angle depressions/irregularities. Doesn't mean you can't still make upward progress. But you have to lift your foot and replace it frequently just to stay in one spot ("treading" in place).
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 13, 2006 - 03:49pm PT
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here's a sweet slab we found a couple of months ago way up on mt. eldon with a killer view overlooking flagstaff. it fits your bill -- there are no holds on the thing, just a couple of butter-dish dimples your can smear your tips into, and nothing -- i mean nothing -- for the feet. my buddy in these pics is a solid, solid boulderer if the rock is 40 degrees overhanging; this V3 slab took him a bunch of tries over two days. go figure.
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Jul 13, 2006 - 04:00pm PT
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Jan,
Club?! There's a Club?! Dammit...why doesn't anyone tell
me this sh#t?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 13, 2006 - 04:52pm PT
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well bob, we figured it was because you'd never join any club that would have you as a member.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 13, 2006 - 04:58pm PT
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Bob, you missed out because of the maximum height requirement. Good thing there was no minimum height requirement or both of us would have been left out. :p
And why aren't you in The Portal doing fun things? Honey due list got you again?
Bob, do you think the 'Sick Midgets Wall' is slab or thin face? Are we gonna see you in TM in a few weeks?
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 13, 2006 - 05:05pm PT
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Me trying to climb hard slabs is like me trying to speek Vietnamese.
In Vietnamese the tone means as much as the consonant and vowel sounds. My friend would teach me a word. I practice, practice, practice. Then I'd try saying it to his mom. She'd look at me blankly. I'd try again. Still no go. And so on. Eventually my friend would say what sounded to me to be exactly the same thing I just said, then his mom would nod in understanding and repeat exactly what I thought I just said, and I'd have no idea what I could do differently to make all sound OK straight from my own mouth.
On hard slabs, my bf will say, put your foot on that good spot. And I will. And he'll say no, on the better part of that spot. And I'll think "???". So I move my foot a bit. No the good spot, and so on. I fall. Then he delicately steps his way up and say, "Did you see where I stepped?" Um...unfortunately, no.
There's also something about climbing with Au-thor-o-thai that I'm reluctant to do when I can't hold on to nothin'.
In conclusion...I think that all slabs are difficult!
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Jul 13, 2006 - 05:06pm PT
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Jan,
I'm headed to the portal right now. To do some slabbin' as a
matter of fact. And, since no one cares about the sick midgets wall except sick midgets, its a moot point.
Tuolumne in August, babe. Time for mermaids and full contact golf.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 13, 2006 - 06:17pm PT
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Have fun Bob, see you on the 4th or later if you aren't there yet.
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Jul 13, 2006 - 06:26pm PT
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Van Belle,
I think you're right. Why don't we start our own club?
We can call it BUBS (Big, Ugly, Bobs). Requirements are
obvious. I think we can recrute Harrington and Gaines.
What do ya say? It can be slab climbing and reach oriented.
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Jul 13, 2006 - 06:40pm PT
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Jan,
For your entertainment. The short bus just let out
at the portal.
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mooch
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jul 13, 2006 - 06:54pm PT
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Jan -
mooch = Dave....ding ,ding, ding, get that man a Stonemaster certificate!
You headed up to Courtright this weekend? Power Dome slab awaits!!
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 13, 2006 - 07:01pm PT
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Man, what a bunch or grey haired old dudes! It's amazing any of them can still climb. Well, except the worlds strongest mutant will never get weak.
Speaking of mutants, it's too bad Waugh wasn't a girl. We could have bred him with Kauk to get a super mutant. Although it sounds like Kauk's offspring is already wicked strong.
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Jul 13, 2006 - 07:12pm PT
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Who says any of 'em can still climb?
These guys are just trying to figure out
how to get back to the cabin. The prune
juice just kicked in.
By the way...Who says Waugh isn't a girl?
Hmmmmmm?
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Fluoride
Trad climber
California somewhere
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Jul 13, 2006 - 08:47pm PT
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This thread rules. Anders gets a gold star. Even though it should probably be broken into a part 2 and a new one started cause this one is starting to take awhile to open when you click it.
Apocalypse, yeah I've always considered Loose Lady more of a face climb cause there's enough edging and crimping on it. Something like Chalk Up Another One or Papa Woolsey would be slab as opposed to LL, at least in my mind. If smearing and balance is your main way up the route, it's slab.
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bones
Trad climber
San Diego
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Jul 13, 2006 - 09:03pm PT
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Some awesome pictures here.
I tend to climb alot of slab, both friction and edging, since it's so abundant here in SoCal. From Idyllwild to Jtree to Yosemite, I've pumped out my calves and cramped my feet more times than I can count. I don't know how you first ascensionist bolt these things on lead when I can barely even stop long enough to make the clips, and I top out at only 5.11! Anything above that looks impossible! Maybe I need to get myself a pair of EBs. Anyways, props to you hard slab climbers.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 13, 2006 - 09:03pm PT
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Flouride, that's pretty funny. I always considered Loose Lady a slab climb except maybe the crux move at the bottom where as I need to crimp like a mad dog on Papa Woolsey and Chalk up Another One. Just so you know, Dave Houser and I put up both Chalk up Another One and Loose Lady so I have plenty of experience on both routes. And I think Papa Woolsey is the site of my longest leader fall ever. I was standing about 3 feet above the big knob without having clipped that next bolt yet and fell to the first bolt. All air btw, so that route may be steeper than you think. Although I did try to land on the big knob and basically did a back dive off of it. Good thing I know enough to cover my head with my arms or you guys would have one more statistic to bag on us non-helmut wearers about the dangers to our noggins.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 13, 2006 - 09:47pm PT
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oldschool is getting revved about "slab talk".
slab:
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Jul 13, 2006 - 10:22pm PT
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THREE WORDS
!!!!!!TEN KARAT GOLD!!!!!
Scared me and my buddy Chris, abosolutely silly.
Now it doesn't seem horrific in hindsight behind this here glass monitor thingy *dink dink dink*
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Apocalypsenow
Trad climber
Cali
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Jul 13, 2006 - 10:29pm PT
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No debate, no semantics...slab climbing is very different from face climbing.
With slab perhaps you pinch a crystal. But most of the time you are palming.
With slab, "it" is completely about balance.
Frankly, I am surprised "this" is even a debated topic.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
California somewhere
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Jul 13, 2006 - 10:50pm PT
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Shortimer - MAD props to you (and Dave Houser)!! Chalk Up Another One is one of my favorite climbs in JT! Great eye on that line. Loose Lady is another great line. But for some reason I always find that crimpier/edgier, always thought of it as more facey than slab but if the FA'ist thinks it's slab I gotta take that into consideration. Done that thing probably a dozen times and it never gets old. Thanks for putting up those lines for folks like me to enjoy!
Papa Woolsey has always given me more problems than CUAO for some reason. It's steeper and always seems greasier. But still a great climb nonetheless.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 14, 2006 - 01:54am PT
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I recall that in 1977 the late Eric Weinstein of "Sentry Box" fame once observed that slab climbing is actually the hardest genre of climbing. I asked why is that? He replied that people are much more likely to take falls on a slab pitch. I think I understand now what he meant: I've seen a guy take 14 falls to get "Anchors Away" (5.11a) on GPA and only fall once on the "Butterballs" (5.11c) crack on the Cookie Cliff. I guess likelihood of falling off has to be factored into level of difficulty. And it sure is easy to fall off a slab.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 14, 2006 - 11:49am PT
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i was doing anchors away with the wife all back in the day and shite. took a worse-case-scenario fall, maybe 30 - 35 feet? -- pitched from pretty far out -- and somehow wound up on my side, sliding down on my right hip, looking down, while stabilizing with my outstretched palms. pretty fun fall. wore a hole right though my blue jeans and my socks and my right shoe, where the ankle protrudes. great route. i'd hiked it before in e.b.'s, but on this day was wearing 5.10 "verticals" with the first generation of 5.10 rubber on them. i was so dismayed i called cole in l.a. and asked "wtf, dude??" he laughed out loud at my tale of woe and patiently explained the "interlocking" principle that made 5.10 rubber so sticky on most types of rock. on pure glass, like you'll sometimes find on the apron, where there is absolutely no texture to the rock and so nothing for the rubber to "interlock" with, you're actually better off with e.b.'s...
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 14, 2006 - 12:02pm PT
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Bvb, if you ever go climbing at Dome Rock leave your 5.10s at home cause they don't work there either. However, a nice pair of Sportiva's like the Focus or Mega work great. Now I know why.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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Jul 14, 2006 - 02:23pm PT
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fattrad, if they hurt your forefoot too much, cut the gray leather off the bottom part of the shoe. I do this to all my pairs, but then I have a square sort of fat foot so I need all the expansion room I can get. They are the best shoes for hard edging, but you won't ever own another pair cause Sportiva quit making them.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Jul 14, 2006 - 03:21pm PT
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That's interesting because it matches my experience with the new softer soles: On pure glass friction slabs, the softer rubber seems to "ball up" after a couple of smears and then you fall off - like on Yanero's "Pipe Stem"(?) on Dome Rock. However, older, harder type soles gave you more purchase on glass than the modern stuff, especially when you have to do a bunch of friction moves in a row. The softer modern rubber seems to ball up under foot after a few smears. I think when it's really cold out they don't do that however.
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jul 14, 2006 - 04:43pm PT
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My Acopas are did good out there. You should try them out.
Hey Jan, I'm missing you!
I can never really follow you, but trying is fun. I'll call when my location is corrected.
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emcee
climber
slc
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Jul 17, 2006 - 03:34pm PT
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some more shots of lcc slabbing:
0face
unnamed
one more of the above
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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bump for a great thread. i'm getting sorta burnt on saturation politics and finance noise.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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sweet bump
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Largo wrote;I'm telling you, a lot of folks would be in for a very rude awakening if they went to Suicide and jumped up a couple of those Henny routes, done about 25 years ago now.
Thats no sh!t !!!
Darrell Hensel is king of Suicide.
I have done most all of his lines,But Someone You're Not 5.13A is for sure the Hardest slab route I have ever been on.And should be called Someone I'm not.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Thanks for bumping this post. When I first started climbing (early 80s) that's mostly what I could lead, as I had no upper body strength then to speak of. All those great routes on the Apron and in the Meadows, done in Fires and wearing brightly colored purple paisely tights, with my ample butt up in the air. (Clint Cummins was my partner on a lot of these routes and he had the rather disconcerting habit of taking photos with one hand whilst belaying with the other, so I have an excellent collection of butt shots...I'd post a photo but don't know how.)
I still love slab climbs and never pass up an opportunity to do them when I find them. If you like them, check out Trenchtown Rock in the Reds Meadow area sometime. Routes put up by Bruce Sato, Malcolm Jolley and Urmas Franosch in the 90s. The routes aren't that hard but they are on beautiful rock and not run out at all.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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I am pretty new to leading but I really enjoy slabs, partly because they are scary and they definitely make tap into creativity. Its better with bacon in Tahoe has a pretty nice 5.6 slab with only a tiny crack for pro on the first pitch. While this is less than paltry in terms of what most of you folks out there can climb, I was far more proud of getting up that slab than some harder leads i have done on bolts. Even slabby boulder problems are pretty sweet- at least if I fail I know its more a lack of mental dexterity than physical strength.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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Slab climbing's not dead...
And it never will be
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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Ah, Tollhouse and Courtright :)
Slab climbing was the first kind of outdoor climbing I learned how to do. Not that I am good at it or anything (lead 5.7 on a good day), but it will always have a fond place in my heart.
I remember being coached that first day .. "stick your butt out, weight on your feet .. pretend you're mooning us !", lol.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Not too many longish slabs up here in Montucky--been putting in some multi-pitch easy cruisers to add to my repertoire. There's a few .6,7,8,9,10 and .11's here to hone the skills on, though I remember getting my ass kicked on a Croft .11 at the Smoke Bluffs on a trip with the family to Squamish, making me realize that the long lost art that is practiced here by some commands respect.
edit: How to rate a slab climb ? Kind of like how to rate and off-width if you ask me. Hard to quantify, but some generalizations can apply.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Thanks to The Chief for posting Stone Mtn NC photo: memories that brings back!! I guess it dates me that R and X didn't exist then - but you knew what you would be getting yourself in for if you went to Stone.
Also, somewhere in this thread should appear huge huge appreciation to Roger Brown who is basically as we speak (or is just finished) rebolting a big area on Glacier Point. Having done a 65-footer in the piton era off the last Coonyard 5.9 pitch (excuse: off route), and NOT dared to fall on Monday Morning to Patio or Patio to Coonyard some years later, I'd love to take advantage of his labor and revisit the spot.
And Calaveras Dome area bears mention in the litany of fabulous slab areas in CA. A few routes still need loose flakes broken off, but there are some diamond-solid ones too that should get lots more ascents, in particular the two stance-bolted 5.11bR/X routes on Hammer (Lo-Cal) Dome. Only merit "X" for damage to your mind, because the rock is so smooth you can go a looooong way without consequence. Slab-lovers, don't miss Cal Dome.
Great topic, gold star. Number of posts certainly shows slab/thin-face is not dead!
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Just gotta post one of the lesser known slab locations. I'd planned to spend a week out there this summer, but got hosed by the weather, too much snow early in the season, too much rain later on. Here are some pics provided by a buddy.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Yikes! My feet hurt just thinking about all those slab climbs. Stone Mt has always seemed a cool crag, even if scary. Nice pics. Great thread.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Phyl!
> All those great routes on the Apron and in the Meadows, done in Fires and wearing brightly colored purple paisely tights ...
Yeah! I remember in particular your leads on Green Dragon and Hogwash (lowly rating, but I couldn't touch those glassy moves). I still have the slides, but no slide scanner yet. I do have a regular scanner, or if you have .JPG files, I can tell you how to post photos.
I didn't have much upper body strength then, either - Sundays I often headed over to the Apron, as my arms couldn't take more pump. Too bad my footwork never got to where I could climb slabs at your level, but did complement each other's strengths.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Nobody looks for you on a slab.
They think you are out climbing something interesting.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Coz wrote: "I climbed with most of the best brits of my day and they couldn't climb slabs."
Umm, Woodward and a little number called Hall of Mirrors? Wouldn't that fall under best brits of your day and hard US slab?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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There are big slabs in The Gorge of Despair...
Medium slabs at Courtright...
and teenie slabs at Josh...
Girls like slabbin' too...
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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yeah, woodward and hensel made a deadly slab team. and ron fawcett was no slouch when it came to cashing in a dime or two.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nothing like having slabbin' as a subject to make me go overboard...
Some of the best slabbin' anywhere can be found at Dome Rock. Rob Brown got this shot of me latchin' dimes on that old Yaniro gig called Pipe Dreams...
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Willoughby
Social climber
Truckee, CA
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More Stone Mountain drift. I got memories of that place too; some of my earliest multipitch leads were at that place during a Spring Break road trip. We got snowed/rained out and eventually made a pilgrimage to the Jack Daniel's distillery.
The thought of jumping off that tree ledge to catch your leader on some antique bolt, though - too scary for us, especially back then!! Luckily for us beginners, it wasn't all pure friction slab. Here I am back in the day on some super-easy something or other with my Big Dog shorts, a rack o' hexes, and a tightly cinched chalkbag (and a goofball photographer) - stylin'!!!:
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Brutus, 20 pitches up a 39 pitch slab (Hitchhiker)
each blue dot is a belay. We ran two pitches together most times.
Peace
Karl
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Jim Lawyer
climber
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Slabs in Spain...El Yelmo, north of Madrid. Surprisingly runout.
Goats are good at it too...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Those goats are rad!
I've seen Bighorn Sheep up on 5.8 on Saddle Rocks in Josh...
Here's another Josh slab. Sexy Sadie back in the day. Anyone remember those old green rand 5.10 edging shoes? They were the bomb.
And of course the real gramicci's...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Stop me before I do it again.
Guy Keesee got this shot starting up another big slab in The Gorge of Despair. Prow of Cobra.
Phill Warrender and Gary Valle did this phenomenal route in about 1979. It is 5.9. It boasts a 12 mile approach over Harrington pass.
If this climb were near a road it would be a "50 classics" must do favorite 4 star line up at the base kind of climb. Lucky for us, it is waaaay out there....
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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" ...Anyway Johnny an American, who talks funny... "
Classic. I'll be chuckling for days.
Here's Rob Brown on a nice Kern Canyon Slab called Wake Up Call...
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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this might be a reposted image for this thread, but oh well.
famous golden slab in Tuolumne
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Chimney Rock? vicinity I forget the name.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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those Asolo's are cherry in that image!! Woodchuck country bouldering. I think on the north? end of Woodchuck lake? anyone remember the wood shitter over there?
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Levy on Nancy's Crack
wait a sec, that's not a slab!!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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big rock lake perris, CA
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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hand drillin on slab, tho hard to see in shadow.
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Double D
climber
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Went out with some friends on Aries Butte in Zion high country the other day. It's a 5.6 with really no moves to speak of. It's the only "easy" way up the dome. Upon summiting I was blown away by all the big horn sheep foot prints. Go figure, the masters of slabs!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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oh sh#t, you did not paste courtright pics did you? now it's on!!
Chris on, i think, Little Nukey or Welcome to Courtright
:)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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i think that's me on the hairy end, not sure tho.
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tenesmus
Trad climber
slc
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one of the best threads ever. thanks for resurrecting it Bob.
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lars johansen
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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It never rains at Courtright:
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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dig that lars!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2008 - 04:58pm PT
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How nice that this thread has re-appeared.
There are some on-topic photos and stories of slab climbing at Squamish on the thread by that other guy, at http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=668163
More to follow, apparently, if the guy ever gets around to it.
We never really did settle on a definition of slab climbing, but as one of your Supreme Court justices said of pornography, I know it when I see it.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Funny definition, and, it works!
Missed this thread somehow's, the first go 'round.
BVB posted, back then:
i'm going to have to humbly disagree with you guys. i know many, many new-age boulderers who focus a great deal of their energy on standard-issue modern-day super-steep boulder problems, but who are also extraordinary skilled slab climbers. they seek out and send the most outrageously thin dime routes. little cottonwood canyon, in particular, may very well host the largest selection of the hardest slab climbs in america.
Etc. I'd agree with "suspenders dude" (as we called a Bob sighting here). Take a gander at the route database on Mountain Project and see all the stuff in Little Cottonwood for example. New and old, kids be slabbin'. Old classics still gettin' a work out.
Andy's photo's here show some fine slabbin' in LCC:
http://www.utahclimbers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2151&start=0
No wonder a few folks who spend some time here cut their teeth on "dixie crystals".
Fun stuff...
-Brian in SLC
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2008 - 05:44pm PT
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Brian, your first photo looks a lot like a chimney. I bet Ed and gang could figure out some way to heel-toe it. Though I suppose a slab-chimney may be possible. :-)
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Water groove and more secure than plain slab, to be sure. Good ol' Stone Mountain.
Couple shots of my favorite easy slab in Little Cottonwood:
Always good to get the first clip:
Great piece of rock:
View top down:
Always seem to be dancin' (or grovelling, praying) from chickenhead to chickenhead:
Hard friction is a zen thing, as much as just physical....it seems...
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
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Sanitary Bob
Social climber
chula vista
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slabs are interesting....
Lemon Chiffon?
a slab, with one face move
wherein, the ascender crams the tip of
an index finger into a tiny V-slot
and pulls down with fortitude...
sorta feels like putting your finger
tip in the jaws of a plier
I think...
aesthetic uniformity,
being out on a wide-open plane of rock
makes slabs a sometimes very nice
place to be.
adjusting from the high-angle,
to the low,
or from the low to the high
can be interesting.
the shoe thing, the ones with the
downward pointy toe...yipes
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Gilwad
climber
Frozen In Somewhere
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A slab is anything less than about 120 degrees--overhanging... Or at least that's what it feels like if you're used to climbing steep, physical routes that demand more than pumped calves and torn tips.
Sarcasm aside, I think the reason slabs are less popular is that steeper forms of climbing are more fun--bigger, more gymnastic moves, less painful, faster pace and just generally less annoying. Slab climbing often feels like the most tedious gear climbing--you spend more time dicking about so you can do the move than actually doing it. Slab climbing is like adolescent sex or something--a tremendous amount of nonsense for only a few moves of real progress. Plus, ah, heavy people and those with no arms can do it, can't be too hard? I have no arms and I've climbed some decently hard slabs in the day so that proves that. Might get back into it if I manage to gain another 50 by the time I'm 50.
One thing worth remembering is that many hard sport routes have slabs at the top (a certain 5.13c at Smith being a classic example). So the art isn't dead. A kid in the UK just did a new E-crazy (edit--link above) route that's a slab so people are still at it, but fortunately slabs went out of fashion somewhere between rugby shirts and lycra.
Please keep up the good access work Anders, I sincerely appreciate it. Even if you do have a not-so secret slab problem.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Brain in SLC,
Is that slab climb in LCC the 5.9 pitch above Beckey's Corner? If so, I did that many years ago before I even knew what a runout meant. LCC is so great. Hope it hasn't changed much.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Did someone say Lemon Chiffon?
Munge presses it out with a little beta from Beev
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Good eye, Chief. Here’s a pic of p1 of GFRR. "We’re an American Band, ya’ll"! Geez, look at all that pro... Funny thing on the second pitch, I was sprayin’ to my belayer just below the second (and last) bolt, that with all this pro, might as well be a sports route. Then my feet blew. Didn’t fall but, man, that’ll teach me.
Is that slab climb in LCC the 5.9 pitch above Beckey's Corner?
Nah, you’re close (route you’re thinkin’ of is Pebbles and Bam Bam?). To the right of Beckeys. Tingey’s Terror.
Another classic friction venue in LCC:
Route to the left of the climber is Paranoia Streak and I’ve seen many a suitor shut down on this rig.
This cooler fall weather is sendin' temp's!
-Brian in SLC
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Steep featured slab - NorCal. Criteria for defining slab :
Stanceable - crux involves smears!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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5.7 Jtree slab, "Searching For Klingons"
The second time I did this I got off route finding the first bolt and had to traverse over about 10-12 feet. 5.7 or not I was super-sketched, the first bolt is high up there with a bad fall.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Brian,
Don't remember the name of the route - the line heading right and up from the top of p.1 (or is it 2?) of Beckey's Wall - seen in the upper right quadrant of this photo:
Maybe there is more than one route on that slab now.
Your last pic must be Kermit's Wad, another favorite!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2008 - 06:16pm PT
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Thanks, Gilwad (WG)! I haven't been actively involved in the Access Society here since the spring. After thirteen years of hard work, it was time to move on, and it seemed like a good time to do so.
But you're right - I have a bit of a slab problem. Or is that a slob problem?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Feb 25, 2009 - 12:57pm PT
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killer thread bump, as per mr. e.
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mooch
Big Wall climber
The Immaculate Conception
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Feb 25, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
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Tiki-Ger gettin' his slab on......'Sizzle Lean' (5.9+/.10a)
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Rudder
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Feb 25, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
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Oh man, love this slab climbing talk!
Had a partner who was solid at sport 12s... took him to Suicide for a little slab climbing and he lost all higher cortical functioning. He quit climbing for years after that day.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Feb 25, 2009 - 05:24pm PT
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looking sketchy there... wrote: ""Long live slab.""
Loose Lady, a real gem! Was there last year and some guys were talking about how way scary and runout it was. Haha... obviously never been to GPA or Suicide, TM, et al.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2009 - 02:25am PT
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Anti-OW bump. Plus it was on the front page recently anyway.
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adam d
climber
CA
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Mar 13, 2009 - 02:31am PT
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easy...but bolt free and ~6 pitches of fun.
Empress on Chapel Pond Slab, Adirondacks
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Tork
climber
Yosemite
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Mar 13, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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Mar 13, 2009 - 04:43pm PT
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New Blood 12a - Pieshop :
photo by Blitzo
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DJMac
Big Wall climber
Bonedale, CO
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Mar 13, 2009 - 04:48pm PT
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I had a thing for slab climbing. Preferred them fresh, but didn't have any problem clipping others tiny bolts that much.
South Platte still has a lot of freshies waiting.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Mar 19, 2009 - 06:31pm PT
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"Bottom line is if people demand more climbing sh#t, they'll bump it."
bump
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Mar 25, 2009 - 12:39pm PT
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whole lotta sending goin' on
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 24, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
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Bump for a great topic!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Dec 16, 2009 - 08:24pm PT
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I like slabs, except for the cold snowy-white ones.
E. Ridge Bugaboo Spire: Slab avalanche below, and slabby rock up high!
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oldtopangalizard
Social climber
ca
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Dec 16, 2009 - 10:30pm PT
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Bluering,
Good one over there at Hall Of Horrors. Thirty+ years ago I used to run up that Klingon climb and the one next to it (?). After some years sure enough, I took off, half paying attention, and next thing you know 'sh#t, where am I'. I rallied, but was reminded, any climb without cracks you best keep it cool, 5.7 or not.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 16, 2009 - 10:45pm PT
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gonna be a whole lotta slabbin' going on at woodson this march. can't wait like "whoa!"
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Dec 16, 2009 - 11:51pm PT
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Tom Rogers on Plutonics
Cornucopia, Derrington Washington
Crest Jewel
Shagadellic
Joshua Tree
Fingertips
Ciebola
Professional dancer Paris Wages on her 1st climb in Tuolumne, Hogwash
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MH2
climber
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Dec 17, 2009 - 01:40am PT
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While preparing the following, tuolumne tradster put up a Darrington route, among many other fine images, so
Bill Thompson on the Quinn the Conehead Pre-Memorial Route
When I hear slab from a climber I hear a Sport climber talking because they appropriated the term to toss all non-overhanging face climbing into one convenient bin.
I prefer to think of friction and thin face, the angle depending on whatever you can get away with. Pure friction exists, but only when the angle is low or when the crystals get so small you can't waste time scanning for the biggest amongst the thousands of possibilities.
I'm gonna post up a bunch of stuff on Squamish because that is where Mighty Hiker is from.
a broad view of Squamish slab
Matt M from Seattle mentioned Dream Symphony, a link of Dream On and Unfinished Symphony. The climbers shown below are in the upper corner of Unfinished Symphony. Dream On is to the right, but the first 3 pitches only take you to the level of the belayer. Not many continue with Dream On. There is rumored to be 5.12 friction toward the top. Another route, Anxiety State, exits the corner leftwards a bit above the leader.
Looking down Unfinished Symphony from where the leader was above.
Friction on Anxiety State above the escape from Unfinished Symphony
shoes after Anxiety State
Tom Madden on low angle friction to the right of Diedre
Darren Melnychuk on Dancing in the Light to the left of Diedre
Jeff R on a neglected slab climb, Java Jive
couple of strong climbers about to do the 13 slab pitch coz freed the Grand Wall with
and as he speculates, there is potential at Squamish which the kids have been showing us how on
http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web08f/newswire-stanhope-frees-cannabis-details
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Dec 17, 2009 - 01:59am PT
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Bump for coolness. Also because I enjoy slab climbing.
The Red Roper guide considered Coonyard to Rim via Oasis the most
sustained free climb in the country -- and it probably was given the
footwear available.
I did my first Apron climbs in the late 1960's in Kronhoffers. Then I
got a pair of RR's and climbed things like the Regular Route on Patio,
spending pretty much the entire time terrified. Climbing now in modern
high friction rubber has changed the technique -- and the fear factor --
but I still have fun.
Thanks to those who reanimated this thread (and, of course, to
Anders for starting it), and thanks particularly for all those who
posted such wonderful pictures.
John
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 17, 2009 - 02:22am PT
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I have a particular affinity and love for slab climbing. So meditative and mindful without the huffing and puffing.
Scary oftentimes but that's part of the allure as well.
In Yosemite it can go on and on.
Peace
Karl
Halfway up Hitchhiker looking down pitch 20
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sac
Trad climber
spuzzum
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Dec 17, 2009 - 09:56pm PT
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Friction Bump!
Good stuff MH2!!
A.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 17, 2009 - 10:37pm PT
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so ready for some sweet mt. woodson slabbin'
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Dec 17, 2009 - 11:06pm PT
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Mighty -
I was wondering why this was the case.
Slab climbing, is great for the kids to learn... Those traits you mention are good things to have, as we never know when that will come in handy....
But the fact of the matter is (at least for myself) is that slab climbing, especially the harder grades, can be painful if there is a slip... Falling on the sparsely protected granite means leaving behind plenty of the stuff that covers our bodies... Calves burning, feet bulging the seams of my shoes, toes pounding with pain (possibly from ill-fitting shoes) are the things I remember most when I think of the slab....
No thanks... I don't need to revisit those youthful days.....
But you are correct.. I think it is a lost art.. technical skills are much needed with the slab climbing.. finding that balance between pulling with the hands, and pushing with the feets is a precise art, that is/has been lost in the last 15 years or so....
Post Haircut Edit: I got back to the computer after posting and reviewed some of the pictures of the slabs y'all are climbing.....
Beautiful, fun looking, and great photos... I thought the picture of the shoes was looking down on some rocks, or like a poorly manufactured boob-job...
Great stuff
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Dec 18, 2009 - 12:06am PT
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Dec 18, 2009 - 12:07am PT
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Dec 18, 2009 - 12:08am PT
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Dec 18, 2009 - 12:09am PT
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Dec 18, 2009 - 12:23am PT
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Slabs are a great equalizer for the tall and the small.
I will follow anyone on a slab, It's that run-out leading....I'll leave that to the bolder and more flexible.
A perfect climb has lots of variety - including a slab section.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Dec 18, 2009 - 02:12am PT
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cheetos & everclear
errett out
crescent arch
via felici, val bregaglia switzerland
slab below the nordkante, piz badile
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MH2
climber
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:27am PT
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Bruce,
Yes, that is the Underfling. It now has a continuation, done by Scott Cosgrove, that leads back to Perry's Lieback, thereby freeing all of the Grand Wall. For a few.
Darren has a lot of that stuff they call positive energy.
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Dec 18, 2009 - 04:03am PT
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tenesmus
Trad climber
slc
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Dec 18, 2009 - 09:49am PT
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That wall has so many features. If the granite is good at all then there are like 8 more lines on it (from this distance) How can you sleep at night knowing that's out there?
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mooch
Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
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Dec 18, 2009 - 01:38pm PT
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In the earlier photos with folks bouldering and some boasting of sending "4 move V5+'s", made me recall a moment last summer when we had put up a 5.8 slab route (ok....it was a bit run out, 3 bolts in 100') in Shuteye. Up walks two visiting "5.12/V5 Pillow People" and hop on the route. The one dood gets 5 feet above the 1st bolt and starts in with the King Shakes. After several false starts, he manages to slowly edge/smear/swear/pout to the 2nd bolt then yells down, "Get me off this thing!"
Priceless.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Dec 18, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
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Herb Laeger has a route on the steep side of Punk Rock at Courtright called A Knob Too Far. If you have both feet off the ground you're a 5.12 slab climber. The crux, higher on the route, is a very rare treat: a dyno on slab to reach the route's namesake knob. This knob is about the size of a golfball as I recall, and is not "necked" at all so once you get it, it is a real wrestling match to get up on it. Setting up and committing to a full on dynamic move on a steep blank slab is just wild.
It's not in the book, but it's easy to find. It's toward the north end of the west face on beautiful white granite.
Another route of Herb's which features a dyno on slab, but is more do-able being merely 5.11, is Just Barely on Dome Rock. This one has a sloper ramp to set up on, but the hold you catch is a sloper too though.
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blr
climber
socal
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Dec 18, 2009 - 02:51pm PT
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Suicide... love the slab!
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Dec 18, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
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OP topic link on page one says something about Anders something.....
Mighty Hiker listed as the original poster...
Confused, but will chalk this up to a simple name/avitar change...
cheers mighty H!!!
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 18, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
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Think of me as the always elusive scarlet pimpernel of SuperTopo. Although the reality is that when I appeared here, it was briefly under my own name, as it took me a while to remember a nickname from the distant past.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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Brandon-
Is that you on Blown out?
How's it been man?
J-tree this holiday right?
When are you getting there?
Mucci
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Dec 18, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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The only routes on it are the lines didn't need a drill. I was planing on getting back there this past summer but... life got in the way. Next summer for sure.
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climber
socal
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Dec 21, 2009 - 01:48am PT
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Hey Mucci, yeah that's me. Send me an email or talk to Sean about details on NYE. Tell Kev he's more than welcome too. Hope to see you in Jtree!
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Dec 21, 2009 - 01:50am PT
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Will do,
Nice shot of 10K
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climber
socal
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Dec 21, 2009 - 01:53am PT
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Oh, and Mucci... please, for the love of god... don't forget your grill:)
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Dec 21, 2009 - 01:57am PT
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There will be a CArcAthon!@
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L. Cohen
climber
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Has anyone put together a list of the definitive slab climbs?
Thanks!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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I always thought Shaky Flakes by RA was a good one. P3 or 4 isn't much hader than 5.9, but it will have the calves screaming. The bid-ness ain't bad either. Sometimes the clips are a ways though
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Lee Bow
Trad climber
wet island
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Mooch, got a story kind of like yours.
A few years ago I took this teenaged gym rat out to Squamish. His Mom had actually begged me to get him outside because other than the gym all he did was play video games. (I didn't have the heart to tell her I own five differnt systems and have a collection of over 100 games myself..tee,hee)
So, I get him out there and was totally caught off gaurd. Forget respect. 25 years of experience just means I'm an old fart with no clue how it's done in the MODERN AGE. I take all this in stride and try to avoid smirking too much.
Well, after watching me pick up a bit of sewing machine leg (mostly strain on this occasion, but I'm a big chicken and regularly do it out of fear) he sneers at me. He puts on a serious face and informs me that this now even has a name. Elvis leg. (Not bad)
Then he tells me he's trained himself out of it.
I ask him how.
Apparently a combination of visualization techniques (like I've NEVER heard of it) and Zen meditation.
Umm...ok...a 16yr old Zen Master. Cool.
So, being the RAT BASTARD I am, I put the 5.12 Zen Master on the first pitch of Dream On. 5.10c (light in the grade) with a generous four bolts in 125 ft or so. Chortle, wheeze, chortle.
By the time he gats to the second bolt he's doing this full body fish thing that far out does the worst shakes I've ever seen. I have NO IDEA how he didn't fall off. He clips the bolt and BEGS to be lowered off.
By this time I'm feeling pretty bad, I really didn't expect more than the normal amount of quiver and he had already followed me up 11 slab and finger crack with finess...but now he's crying.
Luckily nobody else was around. In full defiance of the law I split a beer with him and give him my best OLD MAN OF THE HILLS
"Do you know what happens when you hit the scene like a meteor"
"No"
"You hit the ground in a firey explosion. Don't worry it's climbing. We all do it. Eventually you get used to making a fool of yourself. See any one around?"
"No"
"Good, then it didn't happen right?"
The rest of the trip was actually a joy.
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amfibius
Boulder climber
Reno
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I think the reason slabs are a lost form of climbing is because of the way you fall. When you come unglued on a slab you dont just free fall til the rope catches you... you tumble, get scraped up, slide down, wear out your shoes. It's the worst fall...of them all.
Just my 2 centz.
//Sul
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Apr 26, 2010 - 03:21pm PT
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Apr 26, 2010 - 04:34pm PT
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Christmas Tree Pass
In the earlier photos with folks bouldering and some boasting of sending "4 move V5+'s", made me recall a moment last summer when we had put up a 5.8 slab route (ok....it was a bit run out, 3 bolts in 100') in Shuteye. Up walks two visiting "5.12/V5 Pillow People" and hop on the route. The one dood gets 5 feet above the 1st bolt and starts in with the King Shakes. After several false starts, he manages to slowly edge/smear/swear/pout to the 2nd bolt then yells down, "Get me off this thing!"
Priceless.
Mooch, it's happened to me. I was once an apprentice slab master out at the Pass. Leading 5.9, bolts 35' apart with aplomb. (Etymology: French, literally, perpendicularity, from Middle French, from a plomb, literally, according to the plummet)
Real zen at work. You know you've made that kind of smear before, you just have to do it again. That tiny crystal? That things a bomber hold! Sooner or later a bolt will show up, right? It's the greatest feeling in the world to clip that anchor.
Last April I lowered off a 5.6. Just a handful of moves above a bolt and I was frozen. Real cheese grater rock. Two times last year I had a belayer lose control of the rope and have lost all confidence in the system. I only trust my own talents, and they ain't much.
Slab is a mindf*#k, for sure.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Apr 26, 2010 - 04:49pm PT
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Slab is something to be found here but its only fun in the rain.
So for all you slab climbers what do you call this virgin area?
theres about 2000ft of this...
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Apr 26, 2010 - 04:58pm PT
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I call that awesome.
Rock never ceases to amaze...
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Apr 26, 2010 - 09:58pm PT
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One reason why slabs may not be popular... getting off easy looks like this:
It's a good thing it didn't happen right before this ledge!
And all in all we flailed on this effort at Coonyard Pinnacle, not even making it half way. But we both logged 40+ foot sliders with this catching us:
And reading this thread again has rekindled the urge.... maybe it'll pass if I think about something else like my mother or baseball.
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MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
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slabbage bump:
"Strong" Steve McClure on "The Very Big and The Very Small" - 5.14 slab
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I find the gradeing of slab climbs to be tricky. Its such a subjective medium. It is also sometimes quite depressing to get up some henious runout by the skin of your teeth, arrive at the belay with your mind a complete melted mess only to have your partner run up the thing on top rope.
So much of the precieved dificulty has to do with the runout. Try the same move with a top rope and its suddenly so much easier. All that makes for more dificulty in gradeing INMOP.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Yikes! I would Not be happy climbing hard over that stud! it looks like there is barely enough sticking out to catch the cable!
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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I have to add this classic shot to this slab lovers thread:
John Gosling on an early (and first English) ascent of the complete apron.
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semicontinuous
Gym climber
Sweden
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Diamondslab in Toyota, Japan. Mr Suzuki (not Hidetaka, a different legend) tried this line on and off but was not able to ascend it until Boreal released the Ninja. According to Mr Suzuki a few crystals he used on the first ascent are now gone. The last two moves to the gain the sloping top out are quite difficult I think.
This was almost as far as I got after a few days of punishing my already bad ankles.
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Matt M
Trad climber
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Recently relocated to South Texas and ventured out to E-Rock the other weekend. I was by my self so I dropped a rope down the backside. Uhhm, yeah, there was some bad ass climbing going on back there. Any E-Rockers (Hankster?) have pics and stories? I was impressed with the ground up difficulty I found. Holds it's own with Cali or Squamish I thought!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Nov 20, 2010 - 09:44am PT
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Good bump. Nice to see all these great pics and stories again. There's something sort of romantic about long shimmering slab faces. It's a shame it is sort of becoming a lost art. Understandable these days since featured steep stuff is more athletic and fun. Gyms do not train climbers for slab technique at all.
Initially when I first started climbing I loved slab. My first lead climbs were at Devil's Punchbowl. It was more intuitive for me, didn't rely on upper body strength and I could climb much harder grades. I also had some "ignorance is bliss" syndrome. I didn't fully understand the increased injury potential as a beginner so I lacked the fear. These days my instinct for self-preservation overrules any remnant of bravery and foot injuries make it a bit tortuous, but I still like the slab.
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ELM !
climber
Near Boston
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I am loving the pictures here. I was introduced to slab climbing after dislocating my shoulder..."you don't use your hands" was very appealing. I have to say that I still death grip every cranny I can find though. These pics are from Whitehorse in NH..no "hard" routes pictured but hard enough for me.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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I don't feel the need to define the line between thin face and steep slab, but have always wondered about cibola on medlicott. Felt like it really blurred that line well, which on reflection, I realized just now that I might enjoy routes on that cusp more than either pure slab or pure thin face routes! I'll call them "flab" routes for face/slab.
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Relic
Social climber
Vancouver, BC
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Oct 21, 2011 - 01:05am PT
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Bump for my re-awakening slab fetish.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Oct 21, 2011 - 01:31am PT
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Slab climbing's alive and well
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Oct 21, 2011 - 02:55am PT
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Slabs are still bitchin', and always will be.
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Toerag
Trad climber
Guernsey, British Channel Islands
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Oct 21, 2011 - 08:00am PT
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Some interesting limestone slabs around the famous climbing town of Arco in Italy - do a google image search for 'corno di bo' 'parete zebrata' or 'placche zebrata' A lot fo the routes retain the oldskool 'hunt the bolt' character, but some have been retro-bolted - one pitch originally done with 1 bolt now has 10!
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tenesmus
Trad climber
slc
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Oct 21, 2011 - 08:25am PT
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This one was amazing. Ground up. Ran out of bolts and thought, "I'll just climb up to the next stance and see what it looks like." I drilled the hole and thought, "There is only one more crux and I can see the tree where I'll end it..." Half way through that next crux my pants rejected me high-stepping onto a big edge.
I took a 40-footer. Would have been fine if that tree hadn't been there! I had my drill on my back and it caught on an 8 inch limb. When it caught it pulled the gear sling up and squeezed it onto my ribs, separating the cartilage from the lower two. Finished the climb and all that but as the adrenaline wore off I realized I had to hike out. Every time I bent over that cartilage would fold over and send my whole abdomen/serratus into spasms. Very long hike through a boulder field and then a 3-hour drive to home. My ribs were super jacked up for a month.
Fat Matt's Rib Shack.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Oct 21, 2011 - 10:07am PT
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Weather is getting cooler.... time to go gauge some friction.
About a 1/2 mile away is this one, named The Gold Standard- 12.C???? The temps must be down around 50 or you dont stick.
Drillin...
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oct 21, 2011 - 10:16am PT
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Slab climbing is something else. I have seen heavy, not to say fat, climbers outperform strong slim 8a overhang climbers during slab climbing. Someone has said: "During slab climbing we are all equal".
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Social climber
Retired to Appalachia
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Oct 21, 2011 - 10:57am PT
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I always loved slab climbing. Or maybe is was just those beautiful sunny California afternoons in Tuolomne Meadows, and those monster run-outs, that got my blood pumping.
Almost all of my free-soloing was on slabs. Here I am free-soloing Patio Pinnacle on Glacier Point April (circa 1978). Notice no rope - I used to down-climb the routes, not rap off. What a dumb ass.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 21, 2011 - 03:01pm PT
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Cool - glad to see someone is using those bolts that Roger replaced a few summers back!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Social climber
Retired to Appalachia
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Oct 21, 2011 - 03:04pm PT
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For you Crest Jewel and Table of Contents fans....
Here is Dan Dingle and Michael Lucero doing the first ascent of Cucamonga Honey on Lembert Dome back in 1979
And here is Dan Dingle (right) in the Camp 4 parking lot (circa 1980)
Dan was a phenomenal climber. When we did the NB of Middle Cathedral, he led the 5.10 pitch in sneakers. When we climbed Higher Cathedral Spire he didn't even bring rock shoes, did the entire climb in sneakers.
Dan had asked me to help him Crest Jewel and the Table of Contents. I don't know why I didn't hike up to North Dome with him - must have been a chick distracting me.
I thought that Table of Contents was a contrived route - we had spent a lot of time bouldering the start of the route. I guess time has proven who was the genius.
An old photo from the climb Hoppy's Favorite on Glacier Point Apron, circa 1980. Do they sell Hoppy's Favorite milk in Yosemite anymore? Is the climb still there, or was it a victim of the rockfall?
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Oct 21, 2011 - 06:49pm PT
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Sierra Ledge Rat, that Patio P. shot just made me soil myself....
I love slab and have done some monster runs that would be near solo, but down climbing them too? Was it hard to drag your sac along??
That 1980 parking lot shot is big too. My era there for sure, but I was always hanging big with the Oregon crowd. Remember Lesher's brown bread van by any chance??
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 21, 2011 - 07:41pm PT
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I love slab-climbing.
The Sound of One Shoe Tapping (5.8). The crux to me was climbing above not-so-great pro to get established on the upper slab portion (Dont blow yer gear, you'll ledge-out). By J-tree standards the slab section is pretty straight-forward if you're used to Josh slabs.
Stick to What? is another classsic in the area. And Double Dip is good for the grade at 5.6
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okay,whatever
Trad climber
Charlottesville, VA
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Oct 21, 2011 - 08:17pm PT
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I agree... I think slab climbing is tremendous. Balance, self-control, and so on make it so much different than hauling up steep cracks, which I used to enjoy, but haven't done for a while (I'm 57).
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Social climber
Retired to Appalachia
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Oct 22, 2011 - 08:48am PT
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Sierra Ledge Rat, that Patio P. shot just made me soil myself....
I love slab and have done some monster runs that would be near solo, but down climbing them too? Was it hard to drag your sac along??
That 1980 parking lot shot is big too. My era there for sure, but I was always hanging big with the Oregon crowd. Remember Lesher's brown bread van by any chance??
Was the van a big box-looking thing? Parked near the exit of the parking lot?
My brother and I were such poor climbers (figuratively and otherwise) that we couldn't afford to leave gear behind when we bailed. So we down-climbed everything instead of rapping off. We got really good at down-climbing, and I think it made us much better climbers. So, for me, down-climbing was fairly natural.
I used to get in a hurry and rush, I was always forcing myself to slow down and pay attention when I was free-soloing.
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wildone
climber
Troy, MT
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Oct 22, 2011 - 08:58am PT
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Sierra Ledge Rat, you made my heart rate increase a fair bit with that photo! I'd scroll back up and look at it again, but I'm scared to. Seriously, I'm scared of seeing that photo again dude. And is that a chalk bag dragging on the rock or is it your gigantic balls? I think the latter.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:07am PT
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Sla-bump
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:41am PT
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Speaking of Dan Dingle
There is an AMAZING and moderate new route on North Dome that is clean and beautiful, just need a little aid on bolts in a couple short sections (really short)
never hear of anyone doing it.
CHeck it out
http://yosemiteclimber.com/Nataraj.html
Peace
Karl
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Allen Hill
Social climber
CO.
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:48am PT
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Dec 11, 2012 - 09:00pm PT
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Anyone done Demimonde 5.11c The Royal Arches Serenity Crack Area FA 1991, Eric Mayo, Andy Roberts, Dave Caunt, Rick Harlin?
Ed, I did the second ascent when Eric brought me over there to rate "Demimonde" for him. No falls, on site, no hangs. That's back when 5.11c slab was easy for me. I could actually tell the difference between 5.11b slab and 5.11c slab. Remember it helps if you're confident and real aggressive, the results of slab climbing daily for a couple of years. Practice is the key.
Today? Are you kidding? Hah!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Dec 11, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Dec 11, 2012 - 11:29pm PT
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Great story Karl sound like one hell of a route:D!
Slab climbing is so much fun!
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Dec 12, 2012 - 12:25am PT
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Demimonde....Last spring. On site. Slung nut on hangerless second bolt stud.
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Dec 12, 2012 - 12:28am PT
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On site eh, like a web site?
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gonzo chemist
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Dec 12, 2012 - 12:45am PT
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on Fingertips (Tuolomne Meadows)
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Dec 12, 2012 - 01:08am PT
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More like outta site....GBG this year (not 40 years ago). Nice picture Gonzo..What route?
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dcaunt
Trad climber
Chico, CA
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Mr. Morris see if you can name these slabs?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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First one is that 5.10 splitter to the left of Green Dragon -- Mr. Natral?
Second one -- can't say.
Third one -- that 5.10 traversing thing at the base of the Apron, over between MMS and Apron Jam. Done it 100 times; can't remember the name. Lonely Dancer?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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son of sam?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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First, Mr Natural. Second, ?. Third, Son of Sam.
Second one is not up in the Meadows. Wrong backdrop. So, where?
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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to revitalize slab climbing-
revitalize no-hands bouldering
practice balancing slowly across the tops of a line of beer bottles
and re-manufacture Kronhoffer Klettershuen
(Fires were a backwards step)
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Second one is Grease? Grouse slabs, Tahoe
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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(Fires were a backwards step)
I'll assume that's a troll?
I started in Kronhoffers (at The Gunks.)
I know Kronhoffers. They are no Fires.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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most of my early climbing was on graite in Kronhoffers, so perhaps biased
bought Fires as soon as they became available...was generally unimpressed
might have liked them better for the gunks
now using Kaukulators, but wishing there were some Kronhoffers for comparison
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surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Mar 22, 2013 - 11:11am PT
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Saw this throw another site and made me think of this thread - is this a 'proper' way to fall?
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Mar 22, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
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Fun slab story. Dig; Went to Stone Mtn.,NC with a very rigid list of routes to climb.(as only an impetuous teen-age boy can..) Big route for the trip was 'Rainy Day Women', an area classic with a bit of a rep. Well when we showed up there's two dudes up on the thing. Leader would get WAY out and come sliding off. Belayer would literally catch his pard in his arms on the way by! Eventually they bailed. I went up the first thing next morning and sent, mostly spurred by not wanting to take the huge slider!
Post-script; Years later around a campfire I met the man that was taking those big falls. Now a dear friend and partner.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 22, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
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I'm still quite conflicted on the question "at what point does a 'slab' climb become a 'face' climb, i.e., a route you would NOT refer to as a slab. For example, Poker Face over by the Royal Arches area seems to rest just beyond the divide. It's a face climb. 3 or 4 degrees less steep, I might think of it as a slab; but as it is it's all crimping and precision edging. I also think the amount of pro plays a role in one's perception. I heard Poker Face got retro'd and no longer sports those enthralling runouts. If I did it in with today's level of pro, absent the mental hold-it-together-or-else factor, it might seem more slabboriffic. Any opinions, pilgrims?
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Mar 22, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
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I would have to agree with you bvb. The whole 'keep yer brain from exploding' is half the fun of slab that you certainly don't get without run-outs.
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ruppell
climber
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Mar 22, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
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Slabs have no holds. Face climbs have holds. That's how I define them anyway. I have always loved slabs. There's something about having to put all your trust in boot rubber that just makes them special. How many times have you made a move on a hard slab only to think "I can't believe that's holding." Slab climbing is the most mental focus I use out of any type of climbing. The more run out it is the more focused I become.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Mar 22, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
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Whitehorse Ledge, NH. Was all fun and games soloing on the 5.5 but then a little further on, the route was covered in a thin film of invisible ice ....
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Mar 22, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
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Some slab climbs have holds- but if your feet cut there is no way you would hold on- kind of like psych pro- only they are psych fingernail grooves, or one pad slopers.
Otherwise it is a face climb
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Mar 23, 2013 - 01:09am PT
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Interesting to see that photo of Greasy but Groovy. We first climbed that in EBs and were trying to run the rope a mile. Ricky took a sixty foot fall when a flake broke on the 3rd pitch. Putting the bolts in on the 4th pitch was horrendous, way harder than the climbing. Good adventure.
JL
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10b4me
Ice climber
Happy Boulders
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Mar 23, 2013 - 01:51am PT
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Slabs have no holds. Face climbs have holds
Palming and smearing vs.crimping and edging
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Mar 23, 2013 - 01:52am PT
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The Squamish classic Dream On. No line-ups here!
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Rolfr
Social climber
North Vancouver BC
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Mar 23, 2013 - 01:56am PT
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All slabs have holds, it's just about understanding the nuances of the rock. Is a depression a hold, is the change of texture a hold or is that crystal that you can only see if you are not overcome by fear a hold?
Slab climbing is at a minimum 50% mental and is the great equalizer for those of us that have not been blessed with genetic strength.
Falling safely is the other often undeveloped skill for succeeding on slabs. Indoor climbing routes teach safe falling techniques, but it is counter intuitive to run downhill on a runout slab pitch, so most people drag their hands, feet and body parts as a protective impulse.
Like all specialized aspects of climbing, slab climbing has a learning curve that requires commitment to the craft and hours of experience. After years of hiatus to that style of movement, I’ve rediscovered that heady thrill with a bunch of grizzled old hardcore locals at Joshua Tree. Ye-Ha!
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Scrubber
climber
Straight outta Squampton
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Mar 26, 2013 - 12:37am PT
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Lets go climbing Rolf! I always have trouble finding co-conspirators for slabby adventures.
K
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perswig
climber
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May 26, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
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Dale
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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May 27, 2013 - 01:18am PT
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Slabs have no holds. Face climbs have holds
Palming and smearing vs.crimping and edging
Define "hold"!....
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orle
climber
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May 27, 2013 - 01:31am PT
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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May 27, 2013 - 02:31am PT
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Mrs. l.e.f.h. (pictured on Parkline) is a huge fan of slab because she can balance on the tiniest crystals of quartz, so I have an inordinate body of experience on Cookie Sheet/Parkline/Glacier Point Apron relative to how long I've been climbing, and we'll be adding some Tuolumne dome to that list in a couple weeks. I prefer face climbing (more upper body strength, less princess toes), so I've been stealthily increasing the angles of climbs we tackle.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 27, 2013 - 07:53am PT
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Slab climbing. just like roofing but you don't get paied;) BTW i do a ton of slab climbing and am fairly good at it aparently???? according to my spurt climbing friends anything less than 90degrees is slab....
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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