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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 23, 2013 - 01:20am PT
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Hey, educate me in high northern astronomy, please.
Can you guys way up north towards Alaska see a full moon around summer solstice? Or is too far south and so doesn't clear the southern horizon or even the trees to the south?
Here at Tahoe, 39th parallel, it's pretty low in the southern sky.
Just wondering, thanks!
p.s. Cause I think the moon orbits the earth more or less in the sun-earth plane. Correct?
I am trying to research it - how the moon phases appear above the arctic circle, for example in summer, but I'm not finding it so far yet.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 23, 2013 - 01:39am PT
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not quite in the Earth-Sun plane
my calcs show that the Moon is below the horizon in Barrow Alaska (71.3003ºN, 156.7358ºW) today 6/22/2013
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2013 - 01:41am PT
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Amazing. Thanks, Ed.
Will have to research this more, revisit the basic principles!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 23, 2013 - 01:55am PT
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An interesting question. Please continue and elucidate further.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jun 23, 2013 - 02:07am PT
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I'm lookin at it now & it's pretty super. Can see the whole thing here is whistler.
Is it just me or have we had a lot of super moons lately??
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 23, 2013 - 02:07am PT
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The "Ecliptic plane" is the plane that the Earth's orbit is in...
the Earth rotates and it's equatorial plane is tipped 23.5º off the ecliptic plane
the moon's orbit is also tipped 5º off the ecliptic plane
At a high enough latitude, the summer Sun will stay above the horizon for the day (as it is for Barrow today)...
a full Moon is "behind" the Earth opposite the Sun... if the Sun never sets, the Moon never rises....
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2013 - 02:26am PT
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Thanks, Ed, that pic's a "super" good one.
Super "elucidating," huh Wayno? :)
I imagine something like a quarter moon would put on an interesting show up in the arctic circle at summer solstice (and other times too) for a visiting tourist, say from the 39th parallel.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 23, 2013 - 03:50am PT
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That worked for me. Big thanks , Ed.
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aguacaliente
climber
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Jun 23, 2013 - 04:41am PT
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Ed, this is kind of a nitpick, but because the moon's orbit is tilted 5 degrees out of the ecliptic plane, the full moon does not have to be exactly 180 degrees opposite the Sun from an Earth viewpoint. The plane of the lunar orbit precesses on an 18.6 year cycle. I believe this means that there are certain times where it would be theoretically possible to see a full moon on a day of 24-hour sun. If I have the geometry right, the full moon would be highest when close to the minor lunar standstill - look at the figure at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_standstill
Try calculating for Barrow on the full moon of July 21-22 (still midnight sun). I get that the full moon would be about 1 deg above the horizon. While it's questionable whether something 1 deg above the horizon is observable in practice, atmospheric refraction helps.
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cyndiebransford
climber
Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
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Jun 23, 2013 - 04:52am PT
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Here is a photo I took last night while out kayaking at 11:00PM on the Kenai Peninsula, Alaska.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 23, 2013 - 05:59am PT
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It's looking good in mowab...
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Dapper Dan
Trad climber
Menlo Park
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Jun 23, 2013 - 10:10am PT
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The Super Moon going down about 6am here near the mammoth hot tubs...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 23, 2013 - 10:21am PT
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It's shining brightly in Okinawa as well and looked huge coming up this evening around 8 pm.
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MisterE
Social climber
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Jun 23, 2013 - 10:48am PT
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Amazing shot, Cyndie!
Thanks for the info, Ed.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 23, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
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aguacaliente you're certainly correct that there isn't an exact 180º difference in the alignment....
My calculation shows that the Moon has an altitude of something like -2º at 1:30am on 6/22 at Barrow
It would be a fun exercise to calculate what days both the Sun and the full Moon were visible in the sky at the same time...
for 7/22/13 I do indeed get the full Moon and the Sun in the sky at altitudes of roughly +1º at around 2:30am local time
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SCseagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Jun 24, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
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Wow Cyndie!
Moon through masts....with touch up by Instagram! Doesn't make up for forgetting a tripod.
Susan
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jun 24, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
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Killer photos everyone!!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 24, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
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No problem seeing the moon from S Face of Denali.
Not sure if it was 'super' although it was for me. :-)
Maybe Ed can compute the comparable latitude given 15K' on Denali.
(I probably could but I'm lazy plus he can do it in his head)
Actually, now that I think about it if Denali is 63N then being at 15K is like
being at about 64.5N. Am I right, Ed?
Crappy pic of a pic on my wall...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 24, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
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when was the picture taken (day, month, year) ?
On 7/22/13 the full Moon will be at an altitude of nearly 10º above the horizon at 2am at Mt. McKinley.
At 15k elevation on the side of Denali, the moon will still appear 10º above your "level gaze" so well above most of the features near by (a 15k feet peak is at an altitude of 0º if it isn't too distant).
Nice image!
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Jun 26, 2013 - 03:06am PT
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you guys really think cyndie's pic is real??? i have some land in florida on the side of a beautiful granite wall i'll sell ya.
almost the super moon here in tahoe from the lovers leap area
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cyndiebransford
climber
Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 03:39am PT
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My photo is real! I darkened the moon in photoshop. Would you like to see the untouched up photo?
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Jun 26, 2013 - 04:19am PT
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that looks much realer. it doesn't have the obvious edges around it an the darkening made it look as though it was not from that sky. the moon still looks enlarged though, unless your lens is a +300mm.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Jun 26, 2013 - 04:26am PT
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Ed, can you plot a graph of the accelerations a person feels during a month on earth?
like a sine wave super-imposed on a circular orbit?
thanks,
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 26, 2013 - 11:07am PT
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Ed, my shot was in May of '77 (sigh).
Thanks for the compliment. Get this - the print was made from an interneg of
a slide. I had a couple of prints made and one went up in a restaurant in
Seattle. I got some requests for copies and when I went to the envelope
that the interneg and slide came back from the printer's in imagine my
surprise to find neither were in there! This was a couple of months later
so when I went back and told them somebody had either filched them or lost
them I was up the proverbial creek. It still rankles.
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Lokesh
Mountain climber
Big Bear California
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Jun 26, 2013 - 11:47am PT
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cyndiebransford
climber
Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
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Jun 26, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
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Gumby, I have a 1200 mil zoom on my camera. I am not sure what zoom the photo was shot at, but I assure you the moon was large that night. I was in a canoe on Lower Ohlmer Lake on the Skilak Lake Loop Road between Sterling and Cooper Landing on the Kenai Peninsula. I just wanted to share the solstice moon from up here, no intention of trying to mislead anyone on my part.
We had a spectacular sunset that night too, but now I am unsure about sharing those photos too. Strange how the moon can rise and the sun can set around the same time up here.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Jun 27, 2013 - 03:31am PT
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Gumby, I have a 1200 mil zoom on my camera. I am not sure what zoom the photo was shot at, but I assure you the moon was large that night. I was in a canoe on Lower Ohlmer Lake on the Skilak Lake Loop Road between Sterling and Cooper Landing on the Kenai Peninsula. I just wanted to share the solstice moon from up here, no intention of trying to mislead anyone on my part.
We had a spectacular sunset that night too, but now I am unsure about sharing those photos too. Strange how the moon can rise and the sun can set around the same time up here. Didn't mean to offend you, and definitely don't want to keep you from sharing other photos. The fact is that the way that the human eye sees the moon and makes it look large while it is near the horizon is an optical illusion that is not captured by the camera. In the vast majority of cases when the effect is seen in imagery, it is the result of manipulation during processing.
As an aside, if you want to know what zoom it was shot at (and you're on windows) you can view the original in windows explorer, right click on the image and select properties, then scroll down through the exif data til you find it. I assume you can do something in a similar fashion on a mac (or search for how to find exif data on a mac).
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