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marky
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 2, 2006 - 02:51pm PT
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but haven't tried it and am open to the idea of it not sucking. Can anyone report hammock-bivy experiences, either on a big wall or alpine wall? thanks
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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I've done a few and to be honest, they all suck. I've even done totally free-hanging hammock bivys, and it sucked too. In fact I would have to say that the single hardest move I have ever done on a wall, was getting into my sleeping bag in a hammock.
I'm not that small of a guy, so the shoulder compression thing was even worse then what you little guy/jockey types had to endure. The spreader bars only made things only slighty better.
The one good thing I liked about Forrest Wallwombs, was they made a great belay lounge chair. With their raised sidewalls cutting both sun and wind, you could smoke a bowl w/o fighting the winds or put your head back, supported by the head pocket, and scope your partner on lead without having to use your neck muscles to support the melon. The sidewalls also created some sense of shade and cut the suns power down significantly.
But other then that, they totally blow.
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nutjob
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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I had the best bivvy of recent memory on a Hammock, but it was tied between 2 coconut palms on a beach in Belize in front of a rad house. Had a 12' chess board next to it, and a sweet private swimming pool with fountains and stuff.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Hey it is better than a night in a butt bag or sitting up on a sloping ledge and scooting back into place all night long. I'm with Can't Say. About halfway through the night the shoulders start to really hurt and by morning it is hard to move. Probably spent a hundred nights in one.
Ken
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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These guys have more experience than I do, but I agree with them. Not the most pleasant thing. Getting into the entire sleeping bag must be one of those 5.12 moves that takes tons of practice to get wired. But I have also spent worse nights than this...
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rwedgee
Ice climber
canyon country,CA
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I guess it was better than sleeping in the haul bag or hanging in the harnesss but it only takes a few hours and you feel like a ham hanging in the red nylon bag. Really stiff the next day. Definitely spend a night in it at home & see if it's worth it.
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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I did it once, was not pleasant, but certainly could have been worse.
Eventually I got kinda comfy by laying on my side with my back against the wall and knees bent out from the wall, feet against the wall. The trick was a three point suspension...two bolts (the anchor) and then the rope hanging from above as the third point. A piece of gear in a crack would serve the same purpose. The granite against your body gets pretty cold at night, so don't forget about that.
I would do it again for a one bivy wall but would take a ledge for anything longer if no sleeping ledges were available.
-Kate.
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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All of the nights I spent in my hammock were blissfully comfortable, with or without the spreader bar. I liked the snug, secure feel after a hard day on the sharp end. My hammock is a one point suspension design with three pairs of straps running to the hammock.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Yeah,
I've slept in a wall womb and it was pretty miserable. At the time I didn't realize how terrible it was until I bought a Grammicci ledge. Those things were stylin'. You would have sweet dreams of your girlfriend all night and then wake up and look over the edge and say, "Oh No...."
She was always cheating on me anyway.
edit: And sleeping on a sloping ledge sitting on your haulbag isn't as bad as a hammock, IMO.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Not as bad as some folks would remember. I would recommend a sleeping pill or a vicodin or something to go along with it.
At least you get some bonus. They're WAY Lighter, and way cheaper too. I predict somebody will start making em again.
Peace
karl
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cybele
Ice climber
finally, west of the Mississippi
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I've been on the same page as cliffhanger. I have felt incredibely refreshed after nights in a properly hanging hammock. It's the powerful swaddling effect. Infants and animals naturally love it. I do have to struggle a lot to get situated, get the bag over my shoulders, etc, and getting up to pee SUCKS but once in, I fall asleep like a baby. The hammock does enforce physical submission... a feeling that some will balk against all night, others will blissfully relax into and feel cradled by ...it's the deep pressure. The key I think is not to have the pressure be too non-uniform, too much in certain areas, like the shoulders. A large guy like Can't Say would have a hard time, for sure. A hammock hanging over a gear rack with stuff poking all over has been my worst nightmare. The thing needs to hang cleanly and spread at least on 2 points, pref 3, for me to be comfortable. I like to put my feet up over the edge, elevated. And get the adjuster straps just right once in. And again, the squirming to get situated is distressing. If you can succumb to the tightness and let it be a massage you will have a better time.
On steep routes though, on an airball belay, it is arduous and nervewracking eating, taking off shoes, etc. with a hammock. You really need a nice bench belay seat to get your tasks done. Then get into bed. A portaledge makes organization and evening tasks much easier I think.
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sandstone and sky
Trad climber
AK
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I've wondered before if a brazilian style hammock might be worth looking into. You lie across it at an angle and so you're essentially lying flat, which is a huge improvement over the forced banana-shape you get in a regular hammock. I carried one in my pack during a long trip in south america and have spent quite a few nights in it. No spreader bars, but was the most comfortable hammock I've ever slept in.
Don't know how high-angle the rock would have to be before it would be possible to comfortably lie in it at the right angle though. Plus you'd need more than one anchor. I'm sure there's a reason no one's done it before. Just a thought.
The linked picture sucks but kind of gives an idea of what I'm talking about.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Outback-Brazilian-Hammock-Single-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ4428789405QQcategoryZ20719QQcmdZViewItem
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Modified Forrest Wall Womb
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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remember some very nice nights in a hammock (one or two point)... but not because of the sleeping...
starts out ok.
Wake up with that compressed shoulder feeling, 90º turn, sleep 30 min wake up, turn, sleep, wakeup, turn, sleep, wakeup... you get the picture. But the time you sleep is less and less...
But I remember the full moon peeking over the hammock as it transited over the top of El Cap So.East face. It is an image I will never forget.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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I've spent a few nights in hammocks. I copied a Bat Tent, or was it a Forrest? I think I even slept for a few minutes once.
Susanna Bandana sewed up a big hole it it before an early Aquarian Wall ascent. What ever happened to her?
They do make the best butt bag though, for all the reasons Can't Say mentioned.
One time on the shield part of the Magic Mushroom I placed a pin behind a loose flake (80 lbs.) and the flake came off in my lap. I was sitting there cradling it and wondering what to do in the middle of an A3 section. Looking down I could see many parties on the lower part of the Salathe. If I tossed it someone would have died, guaranteed. My partner, Rick Lynsky, called up that he could tie the hammock that he was using as a buttbag onto the haul rope and send it to me. I pulled up the hammock and VERY CAREFULLY put the flake in the hammock and lowered it to him. To his right there was a ledge just big enough to prop the flake on and leave it.
That hammock saved someones life!
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Done a few myself, and I gotta agree with Randy and Dave... Every one of 'em was the "worst night eva."
My first hammock was one of those fishnet jobs (made by Salewa, maybe?). And while it was better on the shoulders, that was little consolation. I've ripped-out two ripstop jobbers, 'though it was usually the stitching or the bartacks.
Another disadvantage of two-point hammocks is the tendency to compress all the down in those old sleeping bags. Zero loft on your backside. And miserably cold at around 4:00 AM...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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When my partners and I got to the bivy cave on Dream of Dead Horses I pulled out an old Robbins peapod two point hammock and slung it to anchors on walls 3m apart.
Suddenly there was a furor!
Why hadn't I told THEM to bring two point hammocks (I didn't even know they were around!)?
It really never occured to me that given a ledge spacious for two anybody would want a peapod instead.
Was this Huck Finn's fence?
Anyone?
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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there has never been a properly designed lightweight mainly single point hammock for climbers - ever. The wall womb affair is the inverse of a proper design as it creates tension under you in all the wrong places. If you brought up the topic in the design rooms at any of the major climbing gear companies, they'd sit there and stare at you like you're from mars. It is possible to make a really simple light hammock that would work fine for a 1 or 2 night wall or alpine climb, the sort of thing designed to work with a bivi-sack.
Now, finding the right bivi-sack, one easy to get in and out of and not designed by retards is another matter altogether.
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climbrunride
Trad climber
Durango, CO
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I spent three nights in a hammock with a broken ankle. It SUCKED!
But it wasn't really my fault. First, I thought my ankle was only badly sprained, so I could climb. Second, I let Chuck Clance talk me out of using the portaledge and saving wieght with hammocks. I think he was drunk. (Imagine that.) I must have been drunk too, since I agreed.
I agree with the sleeping bag thing - definitely 5.12c+ to get all the way into it.
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mucci
Trad climber
sf ca
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Apr 23, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
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First Hammock Bivy
Can't explain how much this sucked!
Hated the Forrest hammock so much I helped design the "Cadillac"
Complete with Beer holders and thermarest slot sewn in!
http://www.mosquitohammock.com (Scroll to Bat Hammock)
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Apr 23, 2009 - 05:19pm PT
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That guy in the second photo looks pretty happy to see the light of day. Pretty much sums up the whole hammock experience.
Would like to see what Raydog had in mind a few posts (and a few years) back. We (at the old A5) tried to create a better hammock type bivy with two different designs (one by me, and one by Minerals), and though both were a vast improvement over the Forrest type (actually BAT type) rig, they weren't comfy enough to make the grade.
Edit: Russ had something pretty cool sometime back--not sure it ever caught on.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Vulva, Wyoming
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Apr 23, 2009 - 05:45pm PT
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Deuce: maybe the One Night Stand? It's actually is comfy and all that, but nearly as pricey as a real ledge, so most people just get a real ledge. We still sell them, a few a year.
I spent exactly one night in a hammock, with a spreader bar..... in the middle of the night I was certain my collar bone was broken and then when I moved, I realized I also had a broken pelvis, broken femur, and a liver laceration.
All were quickly healed once I got back to the comfort of hanging free air in my 1" swami with no leg loops.
Hammocks straight up blow assss™™™™
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F10
Trad climber
e350
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Apr 23, 2009 - 05:58pm PT
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Alpine winter hammock bivies suck, froze my a## off,
Hammocks are ok some of the time, liteweight and don't take up much room
I prefer my ledge
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Knave
climber
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Apr 23, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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Slept in a Forrest Wall Womb once and while fiddling around trying to get comfortable I shot the shoulder spreader like a bow and arrow. Says to myself, "Miserable"!! Get a ledge.
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Double D
climber
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Apr 23, 2009 - 06:05pm PT
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They suck...
But are way better that a butt bag bivi...
Kurt Rieder and Bill Price on 1st Nose Attempt, ages: 15 & 16
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 23, 2009 - 11:27pm PT
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Anyone BEEN in a pika parasite?
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Apr 23, 2009 - 11:34pm PT
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Yeah, I've got a Pika Parasite and it does not suck. The two spreader bars seem to work just fine. After a day of hauling and aid climbing I'm usually bushed enough that I can sleep in anything. However, it is the best hammock I've used.
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 23, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
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THANK YOU. Every time I look at it and consider buying it, I always stick on not knowing anyone who has personally been in one. I'm not a complainer, and my whole attitude has been "deal with it" in regard to bivies, so I think if it's even mildly uncomfortable, it'll be awesome!
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hooblie
climber
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Apr 24, 2009 - 12:26am PT
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shouldn't fail to mention that an enormous amount of water can be captured as it flows in sheets down the wall. that impossible to enter sleeping bag is in no danger of blowing away. it sloshes listlessly in the pool while you batman your way into a spinning bladder relief position. the yellow snow which has accumulated under your chin should rinse away nicely if you ever manage cobra position, tho arms will be pinned behind you in a compessed swan dive. this akwardness is the chief reason the bottle thing didn't work. too exhausted to consider re-entering the bag, it can now be used to pad the chickenhead which has been digging into your hip. don't slosh over the side onto your partner, he's shivering in his own sock soup and is getting kind of cranky.
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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Apr 24, 2009 - 02:22pm PT
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That's true-I'll probably just punch all the water in the balls as it tries to get in bed with me. That's how I keep girls from getting into bivies with me (I'm taken, ladies). Or I'll just play hard to want, and the water will be repelled. Hard to want works a lot better than hard to get, in my opinion.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Apr 24, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
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I've spent several nights in a two-point, Robbins-style hammock, and slept pretty well each time. I had a 3/4-inch ensolite pad, which helped, but I was usually so tired my sleep-to-vigil ratio was at least 90%, which was the same as what I usually do on a ledge. Would not want to be in one in a storm, though.
John
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 24, 2009 - 06:43pm PT
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It depends who's in there with you.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Apr 24, 2009 - 10:58pm PT
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All you have to do is look at the picture of Robbins
in the hammock and think. . . um, this doesn't look good!
Hooray! for whoever invented the LEDGE!!!!1111
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Ray-J
Social climber
socal
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Sep 22, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
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Deuce4,
I will be working on one this winter
And will post pics so U can check it out.
It will be a featherweight thing,
Integrated deployment bag -
The crux issues hopefully being minimized
To make the thing reasonable to actually use :)
And still very light.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
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Sep 22, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
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I'll confirm what someone said above; only thing worse than a hammock bivy is a harness and slings bivy. Can't wait to get moving again.
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Ray-J
Social climber
socal
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Sep 22, 2009 - 04:49pm PT
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Sad truth is, the forrest wall womb "scallops"
Do exactly the opposite of what you want :)
Have always thought this funny, an oft imitated idea.
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montgomery wick
Social climber
Baltoro Glacier, Pakistan
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Sep 22, 2009 - 04:56pm PT
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The thought process is invariably, its cheap & light, surely I can endure one night in it. Regardless, I will be so tired from climbing I will sleep like a...I mean, how bad could it be?....
...so, before a real wall, spent a night on the second pitch of climb after a day of climbing to get full affect....and...
worst.night.ever.
beg, borrow or steal a ledge or choose a wall route that has natural ledges...
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Ray-J
Social climber
socal
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Sep 22, 2009 - 05:15pm PT
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Anyone got a pic of a pika parasiite hammock
They could post - b neat to see one.
I don't blame folks for decrying the hammock thing:
Exact reason I think some attention in the design realm
Might be fun.
Ps - I did an image search for the pika unit, nada.
No big tho - just curious.
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nutjob
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sep 22, 2009 - 09:06pm PT
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Here's an idea (feel free to patent it, just make sure you stamp a little inscription like "nutjob is great!" somewhere on the finished product):
1) support infrastructure of a hammock
2) zip on a sleepingbag with integrated fly on the top side
3) zip on a sleepingbag with integrated fly on the bottom side
4) embed a screw-on adaptor on the bottom in the middle, which couples to surgical tubing to capture piss without unzipping from the bag. Doubles as a drain if you accidentally fill up your bag with rain or run-off.
That way you have the hammock to use in any weather, and your down/synthetic material won't get crushed between you and the hammock itself. And if it's too hot, you can leave the insulation behind to save weight/space.
Still have to address the issue of smashing the insulation against the rock if you're on a slab or tight corner. But for free-hanging, you'll be in good shape. Add an isosceles triangle frame on top with short side to the wall, suspend the the hammock from 2 points (apex furthest from wall, and the center point of the bar near the wall), and you can get your body away from the wall to be warmer and more comfortable.
But then you have to carry the upper support bars, so why not just do a regular portaledge? Can probably save some weight, but lose the convenience of a flat place to spread stuff out. Maybe there's a market....
Edit: You sell 'em the basic hammock first, then sell em the bad weather upgrade kit, and then sell a comfort upgrade kit with the triangular frame to make it more comfortable for 2 points away from the wall.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Sep 22, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
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The Troll could handle it!
Zodiac '81
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Ray-J
Social climber
socal
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Sep 22, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
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Upgrade kit, hmmm.
Ya know, I tend to think of these as fair weather devices.
Think it was Don Lauria who wrote:
"All this assumes fair weather"
For me the big Q is if a sleeve inside as a foam-pad keeper
would be good.
Oh, and "nutjob is great".
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Sep 22, 2009 - 10:14pm PT
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I should probably mention that I got the Pika Parasite for walls in the Ruth Gorge, Alaska.
The hammock has drainage holes for water to drip out of. It sets up quickly and is pretty easy to get into. True, it is not a ledge but it is still comfortable and has kept me dry. Using a synthetic bag keeps the cold spots down to a minimum. I just hang the Jetboil inside the hammock and brew tea and Ramen until i have to pee........oh and then life becomes way more difficult!!
Seriously the Pika works fine for a few nights out. After about 3 nights a ledge would be preferable. Just to be able to stretch out.
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rich sims
Trad climber
co
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Sep 22, 2009 - 10:30pm PT
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Dee ee
KDV could handle almost anything probably still can.
My last hammock bivy is the one I remember the most. Before the night was over I new my next would be on a ledge.
Did a night in a tree once, was really glad I lead the pitch as I chose first spot. As I remember the third was stuck in his aiders hanging from the tree. It was dark I could not see the guy sitting in front of me.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 23, 2009 - 01:12am PT
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I posted this one before but here it goes!
http://mosquitohammock.com/bathammock.html
I helped design this one but Tom did not sew adjustable buckles into the straps. So I had a friend sew some on for me.
Thermarest Pocket-
Beer coozies
multiple spreader bar applications
Mediocre rain fly
This thing is really comfy but weighs alot more than the forrest or Pika.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Sep 23, 2009 - 01:18am PT
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I love hardcore traditionalism but rent a ledge, or email me and borrow one.
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duncan
Trad climber
London, UK
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Sep 23, 2009 - 05:11am PT
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I can confirm Hammocks suck. I can also confirm that Hammocks + broken ribs suck big time.
Posted two years ago but any excuse to see it again...
Zodiac '81
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hooblie
climber
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Sep 23, 2009 - 06:54am PT
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okay, after the late season @ 12,000' sloshing hammock/tub event described upthread we decided a visqueen and ductape fly was in order prior to the next attempt. i volunteered to fill out the hammock for the form fitting process.
a gable roof sheltered the front steps (concrete) so i jumped up on the roof and slung a 4"x4" ridge beam complete with knee brace back to a recessed "post" looking thing on the wall. from that i rigged the hammock so i could just barely hooch into it off the top step of the porch.
i got settled beneath my spreader bar in supine repose. before my tailor could attach the first panel of plastic,
i plummeted silently to the stairs, no sense of falling in horizontal position. suddenly hip and elbow got slammed
from the blindside by the stairs. my yelp startled even myself. still processing indignant/stunned/confusion
when i was nearly bludgeoned by that triangle brace of nail riddled lumber, painted the color of the house.
neighbors watched as i howled and hopped a ragged war dance around the big tree out front holding my hip or elbow in sequence, my friend in concerned pursuit, preventing me, i guess from veering out into traffic.
tommorrow's return engagement, the ascent of the silver pillar, was rescheduled for later in the week
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Sep 23, 2009 - 07:45am PT
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From mucci...
http://mosquitohammock.com/bathammock.html
This thing looks pretty cool...
But hold on... This hammock can easily be used without foam pad and without the spreader bar for extreme climbing.
I'm pretty sure I'm not man enough for this thing called extreme climbing ;)
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Sep 23, 2009 - 09:07am PT
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No one is..... It's TOO extreme.
All my "hammocking" has been done in the backyard, or the Caribbean(Well, Puerto Rico, anyhow).
Props to the folks that paved the way to big wall comfort!!
There's still plenty of pain up there to be had.
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Ray-J
Social climber
socal
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Sep 23, 2009 - 10:16am PT
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The prototypes I and others have used/tested since...
Around 1980 ish don't have the "fins" or "scallops" like
The forrest or types like that, the curved side of the
"Scallop" being longer and - you know how vectors work :)
Frameless, soft, featherweight single anchor hammocks
Will always have a lot of limitations. And not really be
Comparable to ledges but...
To be specific, it might accurate to say that the hammocks
You have used, suck. Maybe they all don't?
The forrest idea, a cool general concept, is a fine example
Of limited skill w/ fabric and understanding of the human anatomy.
But, let me stress, I don't think light hammocks are suited to use
As weather protection, nor are they really suited to full-on wall stuff:
El cap etc.
If you can carry the ledge in, great.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 23, 2009 - 11:26am PT
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Gunkie said :"But hold on... This hammock can easily be used without foam pad and without the spreader bar for extreme climbing. "
Tom wrote the"Extreme" notes on the hammock, he is not a climber and so it all looks too Extreme for him.
If I was "Extreme Climbing" I would definitely want the thermarest and spreader bars.
Someone should give this thing a shot!
If you don't want to pay for one I will lone you mine complete with fly!
Just let me know when you plan on suffering.
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nutjob
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sep 23, 2009 - 11:40am PT
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Mucci now I need to find a proper objective that requires the use of this thing... so far I do trad stuff that sometimes involves a space blanket.
On a related note, I do know this: a $3 inflatable air mattress from a Hawaiian thrift store isn't appropriate for multiple night bivies. Those things last about 15 minutes sandwiched between climbing gear and a sloping granite ledge. And then it's just plastic dead-weight to take up the climb.
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rich sims
Trad climber
co
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Oct 13, 2009 - 06:50pm PT
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Name this climber
Smiles early in the hammock
smlie gone
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jstan
climber
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Oct 13, 2009 - 07:09pm PT
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Salewa made a net hammock. When in it you looked like a spider's dinner. Some of the other hammocks were more problematic.
I don't know how one can portage more than 100# up a cliff. Seems like work.
But then everything is different now.
As long as it's fun nothing to be said.
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