Bonnie & Clyde accident report

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 43 of total 43 in this topic
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Original Post - May 20, 2013 - 10:47am PT
Accident report: Well not sure where to start but it was the making of great day. A day of fun was planned with a girl that I have never climbed with before but have seen her climb and she was solid 5.8 leader. We climbed at an area in the morning where it was all good. In the afternoon we went over to another climbing area that is off limits but the climbing there is amazing. Me being a rebel, her having rebel in her, for sure we had no problems climbing at an off limits area. The Bonnie and Clyde of climbing. It was her first time there and I have climbed there many many times over the years. The climbs were all traditional climbs, I have 20 years of traditional experience and she has 2 years.

So I point out a few climbs and come to agreement she will go after the 5.8 and I will lead a climb after. First part of the climb she walks and then she starts the steep section with a ledge below. My friend gets above gear and takes a small whip and I yell up “set up a belay on the ledge and I’ll come up” She couldn’t hear me from the wind was blowing so she sets off again. This time getting higher above her last piece of gear. I was thinking to myself she needs to get gear but then I say hey she knows what she’s doing let her climb how she wants, instead of some guy barking up what to do from below. Ok now she’s at a rest, clips a fixed piece of old gear and at this point in the climb the gear is tricky. My friend starts moving again then I hear her yell "oh sh#t I’m falling" I yell “NO” but it was too late.

Next thing I see her flying through the air, the fixed piece pop and then she hit the ledge with her head and shoulder taking the brunt of the fall. “SAY SOMETHING PLEASE SAY SOMETHING PLEASE!” she replies “get me down”. She gets lowered down and blood is gushing from her head (yes no helmet). It’s not her fault I never wear a helmet so I think she thought it was ok not to, when she normally does wear a helmet.

She is keeping cool and she says “I need to compress the injury to stop the bleeding”. I have no clue what to do at this point and she says “we need to get the bikes and get out of here”. I get her harness off pull the rope and stuff everything in the packs. We get down to the bike path and I said wait here while grab the bikes. I get back with the bikes and do a quick check for a concussion. The check is good for no concussion and she wants to bike out slow. (yeah she’s f#ckin tough!). It was about a 1 mile mtn bike ride out; I get the car and rush to the nearest Hospital. 2 hours after the accident we arrive at the ER. After time in the ER there was relief when the CAT scans and x rays showed no head trauma no broken bones. We escaped with 12 staples in her head badly banged up shoulder and bruising /scrapes.

Were we lucky? hell yes! I keep seeing the whole fall, the gear pop happen over and over again in my head and I just f*#kin loose it. I thank god that things turned out the way they did. When it comes to playing in the mountains I like to think I’m invincible that nothing will ever happen to me, I know this is not true and wish it was me on the other end falling and breaking apart. I wished this never happened and I also wished she didn’t have a boyfriend but I can’t control life’s outcomes. All I can do is be thankful that she is here today, that she will be ready to hit another adventure in the future.

I play the situation over and talk to my friends about what happened. One thing I learned is: for now on I have to speak my mind even if it makes me unpopular. I rather be unpopular and have my climbing partners safe then the other way around. I still don’t know why I didn’t say anything and I know better.

Being it was off limits climbing area one friend said “it was head trauma that I should have bit the bullet and called in for help”. Another friend said “in your situation you would have known if you needed to call 911”. I don’t know what was right thing to do? I trusted her judgment on getting out of there and feel we were able to get out of there and to the hospital faster then if a rescue took place.

I haven’t known my friend for all that long and after going through this I have never felt so close to another climbing partner. SR I’m just so happy that people will get to experience your soft voice, pleasant company and sweet laugh in the future. You are truly a wonderful person and I care about you more than words can say and emotions can show!
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
May 20, 2013 - 11:07am PT
I'm guessing you expect some feedback otherwise you would not have posted.

Take this advice or don't.

*You are setting the example everytime you go out with a new partner. Set a good one.

*There is no "check for concussion". Get to an ER with any head trauma. A concussion is a nice way of saying brain injury.

*Don't talk yourself out of yelling directions to your partner if you see they are in danger.

* Be a rebel with the cause of making sure everyone goes home in one piece.

* Talk to your partner about your planned action/belay/rappel on a pitch before you cast off.

*Double check every knot and piece of gear, then check it again.

Glad you are both ok.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 20, 2013 - 11:14am PT
Arrgghghhh... GLAD things went as well as they did for you. Droppin like flies around here...
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 20, 2013 - 11:23am PT
I hate to point out the obvious but a helmet likely would have saved a lot
of grief. When I climbed in Sweden most Swedes thought it their civic duty
to wear helmets. But I guess here in the Wild West we don't worry about
going to the ER on the taxpayers' nickel.
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2013 - 11:50am PT
thank you pud yes I'm looking for feedback and at the same time I want people including myself to read and learn from this accident. I'm trying to remain strong but that’s not working so well.

I know i should be setting a better example and I take full responsibility for the accident.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
May 20, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
What follows are the musings of an out-of-date old fart. Feel free to ignore whatever you want.

BITD, we didn't fall off 5.8's and we sure as hell didn't take multiple falls off them. I think the influence of sport and gym climbing, and the continuing drone about "if you're not falling, you're not climbing hard enough," combined with psychobabble nonsense about eliminating the fear of falling, conspire to make a relatively inexperienced trad leader think multiple falls on a trad 5.8 are just part of an ordinary day. Combine that with the fact the clipping bolts probably makes you even more likely to trust fixed protection, and you have the ingredients for this accident.

The first time she fell was the moment for either retreat or, as mentioned, building a belay and bringing up the second.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 20, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
I'm not quite as experienced as rgold, but still of about the same vintage. I want to pile on the head injury issue, though, not on anything else. The possibility of a concussion is always present in the sort of fall you described, and is something virtually impossible for a lay person to determine in the field. For that reason, if anything like that happens again, I would seek medical attention immediately. Ironically, the Docs in the Box (i.e. walk-in clinics) can sometimes be better than an ER, because it may take forever to get attention in the ER.

Also, keep in mind that the face and scalp have a great deal of blood vessels very close to the surface, so even a small wound can produce profuse bleeding. A helmet will usually prevent those sorts of injuries, but as anyone who follows football knows, helmets can't always prevent concussions.

That said, thanks for posting up in this situation. It's always unpleasant to report about potential mistakes, but doing so helps other climbers learn without repeating your experience.

John
wbw

Trad climber
'cross the great divide
May 20, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
Go up to Puds advice, and see item #2. Your report makes me believe that having at least a little basic first response training would be a good idea. I think there are a number of decisions that you made that you might reconsider, based on your report.

Life is one big lesson. The most important thing is to learn from the mistakes that we make.
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2013 - 01:24pm PT
rgold I should have demanded that she hangs out and puts more gear in before setting off after clipping the fixed piece. I pointed the climb out to her and thought it would be a good lead. with modern day gear I feel it's perfectly fine to fall on 5.8, 5.7 or whatever grade, it’s a lot different then banging in pins and kernmantle rope.

John I know now that with a head injury I should have sat her down and stabilized the head & neck area.

wbw yes many things I would reconsider like being a rebel climber. I'm taking this as a learning experience and tears me apart that my friend was hurt.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
May 20, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
it’s a lot different then banging in pins and kernmantle rope.

I still use kernmantle rope - I guess I'm just old fashioned.

Glad to hear everyone is ok.

Where are these climbs? Does the fixed piece (pin?) need to be replaced?
El Cono

Boulder climber
Tierra Del Coño
May 20, 2013 - 01:36pm PT
with modern day gear I feel it's perfectly fine to fall on 5.8, 5.7 or whatever grade,

...then, your days are numbered.
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Hi Dave thank you for the well wishes! Sorry I can't discuss anything about what climb and where. I believe It was a old fixed tricam that popped.

nice feed back El Cono
micronut

Trad climber
May 20, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
Thanks for posting and I'm glad you are both doin' well now. I hope her recovery is speedy and full. Here's a basic "Field Test" battery I would give to my partner. I really like the "Word Memory Test" given three minutes apart. If she failed any of these really, I might consider staying put:

Concussion Signs and Symptoms Evaluation Form
Check off all positive signs, symptoms and testing findings

Signs observed: Symptoms reported by athlete:

□ Appears to be dazed or stunned □ Headache
□ Is confused about assignment □ Nausea
□ Forgets plays □ Balance problems or dizziness
□ Is unsure of game, score, or opponent □ Double or fuzzy vision
□ Moves clumsily □ Sensitivity to light or noise
□ Answers questions slowly □ Feeling sluggish
□ Loses consciousness (even temporarily) □ Feeling “foggy”
□ Shows behavior or personality change □ Change in sleep pattern
□ Forgets events prior to hit (retrograde) □ Concentration or memory problems
□ Forgets events after hit (anterograde)

On-field Cognitive Testing

ORIENTATION: Ask the athlete the following questions.
□ What stadium is this? □ What month is it?
□ What city is this? □ What day is it?
□ Who is the opposing team?

ANTEROGRADE AMNESIA: Ask the athlete to repeat the following words.
□ Girl, dog, green

RETROGRADE AMNESIA: Ask the athlete the following questions.
□ What happened in the prior quarter/period? □ What was the score of the game prior to the
hit?
□ What do you remember just prior to the hit? □ Do you remember the hit?

CONCENTRATION: Ask the athlete to do the following.
□ Repeat the days of the week backward (starting with today).
□ Repeat these numbers backward:
63 (36 is correct)
419 (914 is correct)

WORD LIST MEMORY: Ask the athlete to repeat the three words from earlier.
□ Girl, dog, green

NEUROLOGICAL TESTING (from Sports Concussion Assessment Tool)
□ Speech: Slurring of words
□ Arm Drift: Ask athlete to stand with arms out front and parallel to the floor, palms down. Then,
ask athlete to close eyes while in this position. Does one of their arms drift out of the position? Any
change is abnormal.
□ Sport Related Movements: Ask athlete to repeat sports related movements – run, jump, cut,
catch, etc. Any inability to perform these movements is abnormal.

Any failure should be considered abnormal. Consult a physician
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
May 20, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
I travel to Dallas occasionally for work.

I'm curious about a secret climbing area in the middle of Texas.


johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
"I hope her recovery is speedy and full." Yes i hope so also! Thank you for posting up good info micronut! I just did a basic pupil test to see if they were dilating and she was more coherent then I was.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
May 20, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
with modern day gear I feel it's perfectly fine to fall on 5.8, 5.7 or whatever grade, it’s a lot different then banging in pins and kernmantle rope.

That's where we differ. Big time.

Actually, pitons were generally more reliable than modern gear, the main difference being that we place far more modern gear than we ever would have placed in the iron age, so possible falls are typically much shorter.

I think 5.7 to 5.8 trad is a realm in which the climber ought to have enough awareness and enough self-control to (1) place adequate protection even when stressed and (2) climb down out of trouble before they fall. The generally wider spacing of piton protection BITD made this much more of a necessity, I guess, and modern attitudes clearly encourage leader falls at moderate grades where we oldsters would have thought such falls a serious leading failure.

I see this accident as the inability of the leader to conceptualize the actual risks in the situation, an inability fostered by a pervasive environment of casualness about falling that makes sense in the sport context but is not, modern trad gear or not, justified for moderate trad climbs.

It isn't really anyone's "fault," it is an unfortunate byproduct of the times. Considering the young woman hit a ledge with her head and wasn't wearing a helmet, the lesson, if she is able to "rebel" against the prevailing environment and focus on what really happened, came cheap.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
May 20, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
I believe It was a old fixed tricam that popped.

yep, those old fixed tri-cams will just pop out, other than that they are great
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 20, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
I think 5.7 to 5.8 trad is a realm in which the climber ought to have enough awareness and enough self-control to (1) place adequate protection even when stressed and (2) climb down out of trouble before they fall. The generally wider spacing of piton protection BITD made this much more of a necessity, I guess, and modern attitudes clearly encourage leader falls at moderate grades where we oldsters would have thought such falls a serious leading failure.

Well said! I hate leading therefore I don't lead (or didn't since its been a while) much harder than 5.9. Around 5.8 is when my head switches to a more serious state. But I learned from old trad dudes. I did scare my partner once using tricams but he's prejudiced.

I'm glad Bonnie is ok. I normally don't climb with a helmet but this story and the tragedy on el cap has me reconsidering this.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 20, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
Problem with falling on 5.7/5.8 isn't gear, modern or otherwise, it's the typical angle of that terrain. Less than vertical, ledgy, broken, rambling, etc.

You can usually count on 5.hard being steep enough not to matter, or if not steep, very clean faces with minimal features to hit. On 5.8, not so much.

I don't hector my partners or try to micromanage from the dull end, but I don't hesitate to give them the "dude, put in some gear, you'd deck/hit that ledge/take a nasty penji into the corner from there", no matter how good, experienced, or surly they are.
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
"I don't hector my partners or try to micromanage from the dull end, but I don't hesitate to give them the "dude, put in some gear, you'd deck/hit that ledge/take a nasty penji into the corner from there", no matter how good, experienced, or surly they are"

Same way and I didn't say sh#t, my friend got hurt. I f*#ked up
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
May 20, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
It's good to be extra careful in those off-limits climbing areas - I would think they are more likely to have loose rock since they don't see much traffic.

It's cool that you can mountain bike from one crag to the next. Don't know of many places where people do that.
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
May 20, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
hey there say, johnnyrebel...

very VERY glad to know she is well, and survived this...

always go by your heart, when things look wrong, and speak up...hard to do, but then: no regrets later.... folks can sure slam you, if you dare to caution, so one must expect that and be prepared for 'opinions to be formed about you'... but it is better to help save, than to regret a loss...


also, as all have said, head injury always in some way, affects the brain... it is not what folks think, in general...

i sadly remember vanessa redgrave's daughter, NATASHA, who died in her hotel?
room after hitting her head, :(
she stated that she 'felt okay' SO THUS, had declined going to the hospital... (though all of us surely CAN understand this--going when one is okay, does not make sense to put others out, or, sometimes it is a money issue, for others--it just seems natural to decline) :(

there is just so much more involved that goes on EVEN on the surface level, of head injuries... :(


thank you for sharing, so other can possibly learn various things from
this post...


god bless..
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 20, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
No.... you didn't screw up Johnny. I was out with an old buddy. Last time we'd climbed, @10-15-20 years before, I'd been the experienced one. Now I was feeling old and infirm with some injury or another and not looking for anything too hard we went out to do a short(er) easy(er) multipitch. He led the crux 3rd 5.9 pitch so I wouldn't stress. Dude had been getting out. Anyway, he was climbing right above me on a semi hanging belay, @ 20' up, no pro between us. If he falls he'll hit me. Hard. I gently suggested that the sweet appearing stance he was on would be a good spot to drop in a hex or something.



Well, maybe he didn't hear me. I clear my throat and repeat a tad louder. All I said was: "Be a good spot for a piece".



Buddy keeps moving up. Not like Bachar in his prime either. Slow. Well, maybe he didn't hear me I think. I clear my throat UACCHHHH HUHHH!!! and repeat...much louder. "HEY MAN - YOU WON'T HURT MY FEELINGS IF YOU PUT IN 2 OR 3 PIECES!!!!!!" Buddy is looking at a direct fall onto me from 25'-30' up and then he'll go another 25'-40' with rope stretch and I've checked the 3 pieces I have in and am fully hanging on 4 or 5 times but I check them again to make sure that the belay will hold that kind of action. Now, he'd once climbed below me on a 1300' simusolo we'd done years before, so he had to have trusted me at some point. anyway.....

Pretty curious to me. Never encountered that kind of thing before. Finally he puts in a piece.

I get up to the belay, dude is giving a sitting hip belay, no pro tieing him to the wall. And he's burning up. I take a look at his pained face and say: "whats the problem?".. My friend, and we eventually became friends again 5 years after this climb, can't even talk he's so pissed off.

I don't even know what's up. Being older, I often am climbing with young folks and giving beta is always appreciated and normal. We finally get down, I repeat "what's wrong man"? I get lit up. " F*#K YOU ASSHOLE YOU MAY HAVE BEEN MORE EXPERIENCED 20 YEARS BACK BUT YOU'VE BEEN SITTING ON YER ASS RAISING A FAMILY AND IVE BEEN CRUISING WALLS AND DON'T TELL ME WHERE TO PUT IN THE F*#KI9NG PIECES. F*#K F*#K F*#K JESUS CHRIST JUST SHUT THE F*#K UP I'LL PUT IN A F*#KING PIECE IF I WANT TOO WHEN I WANT TOO IT'S MY DECISION WHEN OR IF I DO I'M LEADING YOU'RE BELAYING SO SHUT THE F*#K UP."

"HOOOO MAN", I say. "sorry." About all I had. Never had ever experienced something like that. We didn't talk for a couple of years, but it was on his end.



Anyway, she was on lead. Rgold spoke for me up thread. Learning to downclimb is a skill worth learning and also, once you rest on yer gear, since you screwed the onsight, why not add a piece while you are hanging if you at all think it's needed, not a bad idea. Especially if a person only has 2 years of experience.

We do what we do. Experience is gained. She'll be fine at some point and hopefully she'll learn from it. Best to you both.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 20, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
I like to wear a helmet while lurking on the taco...RJ
wbw

Trad climber
'cross the great divide
May 20, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
I think given what has happened in our extended climbing community recently, making positive, constructive comments (and not snide, sarcastic comments)would be appropriate. And let's all be thankful that this situation didn't turn out worse.

I've been involved in a serious accident where there was a concussion (and other injuries) and many of the symptoms that Nut points out for concussion were present, in addition to my friend vomiting (classic sign of concussion).

Again Reb, it's all about learning from mistakes, so don't be too hard on yourself.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
May 20, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
Couchmaster, your story reminds me that as a young climber, I used to pass up pro opportunities all the time. If I felt solid, then no need for pro, right? I got lots of warnings from older more experienced climbers, but hey, I knew what I was doing, and I was in control.

Well. On a climb in the Needles (SD, not CA), I had blasted through the 5.9 crux and was now cruisin' 5.7 to the top, basically in soloing mode. I got to a comfortable stance with the opportunity to place a bombproof 3/4 inch angle (this was before nuts and way before cams). I kept on going a move or two, and then something, maybe the echoes of the accumulated wiser voices who had been telling me to put in more gear, made me stop. I climbed back down a few moves, placed the piton, clipped it, and hadn't even returned to my high point when a crystal (previously used) broke and I fell maybe three feet total because of the pin.

Without the pin, it would have been a fatal ground fall. Instead, it was nothing. I didn't think about it much consciously until later, but even without thinking about it I changed my ways, I suppose because the fantasy of total control had been seriously dented.

I have to say, though, that my actions, although they certainly could have led to a lousy day out for my partner had he been forced to clean up the mess, did not put him in any kind of danger. But when you are up on a route and your partner fails to protect the belay when it is fully possible to do so, they are risking not only their lives, but yours too, and that is a totally different proposition. I might remain friends, but the climbing relationship would be over, because a person who is willing to risk my life unnecessarily in order to enjoy their own sense of mastery isn't someone I want to be above the deck with.

This might mean, conceivably, that I would have to stop climbing with my younger self, but as it turns out we manage to get out together with fairly little conflict. The lad is as boisterous as ever, but just doesn't get to have his way much any more.
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
Totally agree that down climbing and backing off is necessary in trad climbing. just don't know how my friend gets associated as being a sport / gym climber. when i look back at my history and how i didn't know dick the first 8 years of climbing. During those first 8 years i climbed traditional only and lots of wide crack was my favorite.
thank you neebee and everyone

i think it all goes back to what pud said. i should have been setting a better example.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 20, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
Glad everybody's OK

I think El Cap in da booty said what I planned to say

"Problem with falling on 5.7/5.8 isn't gear, modern or otherwise, it's the typical angle of that terrain. Less than vertical, ledgy, broken, rambling, etc.

You can usually count on 5.hard being steep enough not to matter, or if not steep, very clean faces with minimal features to hit. On 5.8, not so much.

I don't hector my partners or try to micromanage from the dull end, but I don't hesitate to give them the "dude, put in some gear, you'd deck/hit that ledge/take a nasty penji into the corner from there", no matter how good, experienced, or surly they are."

Peace

karl
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
May 20, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
Sounds like your friend learned the lesson the hard way and consequently will probably not make the same mistake next time and probably/hopefully will always wear a helmet.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 20, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
I am with RG on this one. Three things can happen when you fall and two of them are bad.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
May 20, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
...just don't know how my friend gets associated as being a sport / gym climber...

You have a point; I don't know anything about her---perhaps she's never been near a gym or a sport climb. But understand that I didn't refer to her as any type of climber. I referred to the climbing culture that envelopes all of us, a culture that I feel places too much faith in technology, focuses in a one-sided way on "sending" with little regard for coping that does not "reach the chains," and fails to distinguish between behaviors that may be appropriate for one genre but not for another.

It is a challenging environment to learn trad in. Whether your partner was, to some extent, a victim of that environment or whether her mistakes were hers alone, as were mine years ago, I have absolutely no way of knowing. In any case, I'm glad she is ok.
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 20, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
Thank you RG I'm glad she is ok also.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 20, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
There is a boulder problem that I used to do quite a bit BINTD. We Always treated it as a solo. bad landing and tricky highball top out but heck we treated all of our boulder problems as solos. I remember climbing out to the crux and then reversing the moves to rest and gather my witts at least a dozen times before finally sending. No pad, no spotter just your sense of self preservation and NOT FALLING. I pointed the problem out to a super strong youngster and he quickly cruised up to the crux, figured out that it got hard so he jumped cause that is what kids do these days. totally trashed his ankle.
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2013 - 05:37am PT
Just an update my friend Bonnie had a good day yesterday and even had a beer!
phylp

Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
May 21, 2013 - 08:18am PT
climbing right above me on a semi hanging belay, @ 20' up, no pro between us.

Couchmaster, your partner was being an idiot. It's not about what he feels solid on or not, it's the forces on the belay if the "what if" happens. As the events of this week have shown, in climbing we always have to be aware of the "what if". As a matter of ROUTINE, I put in two pieces soon after leaving the belay. After that, you can run it out more.

rSin

Trad climber
calif
May 21, 2013 - 08:28am PT
i dont understand pulling the rope and packing gear given the injury you witnessed. even getting the harness off was a poor use of time

johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2013 - 08:30am PT
rsin
either do I. I just wasn't thinking.
Les

Trad climber
Bahston
May 21, 2013 - 08:34am PT
geezus, not to mention that falling 50-60 feet onto a hanging belay -- the definition of a Factor 2 fall -- could easily rip the anchor, no matter how solid you think it is. Bad form on your partner's part.

An old denizen of ST, now gone, rest his soul, said here one time something that I've always remembered:

Watch the weather
Don't drive exhausted
Protect the belay

That last one has always seemed particularly important to me. And, if my fading memory serves me correctly, RGold himself once said something to the effect of "always have at least 3 pieces between you and disaster." Finally, it was related to me by a friend that John Bragg once told him, "Any as#@&%e can climb, but it takes a special as#@&%e to protect a climb."

Anyway, glad to hear the OP's friend is okay.
crunch

Social climber
CO
May 21, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Close encounter. Had a couple close encounters like that myself, over the years. While leading, dislodged a loose rock that hit my partner's head, nearly killed him (thought I had, at first). Lots of blood. Terrible.

Sometimes things just happen. After, you can analyse and second guess what things you'd have done different, but this climbing game is inherently risky and sometimes the odds kinda catch up. Hard to judge how much to trust a new partner, ya don't want to be a bully but also don't want to end up with someone hurt.

You likely feel awful right now, knowing that you could have done different things and altered the outcome.

But, maybe had you, say, yelled at her to put more gear in, and she heard you, that would have set in motion some other scenario that would also have ended in an accident. Perhaps even a worse one. Impossible to know. Don't beat yourself up too much.

Over a few weeks, the vivid horror of what happened will fade. You won't ever forget, but you will emerge from the shadow and start enjoying getting out climbing again. Processing takes time.

All the best!






PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
May 21, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
Werner's right. If you can't work out the sequence and feel totally secure on 5.8 then you should back off and come back when you get better.
johnnyrebel

Trad climber
heart of Texas
Topic Author's Reply - May 21, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
Easy Mr. Braun i know you had a bad weekend. I pointed out the climb. she fell on the 1st crux then went up and the bad fall happened on the 2nd crux. I didn't speak up I KNOW Better! so are you saying when someone falls on the phoenix twice that they don't belong on it or is just a elite grade thing

thanks crunch
ec

climber
ca
May 21, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
Please re-read:

If you start falling all the time on 5.8 you don't belong there..
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
May 21, 2013 - 07:22pm PT
I went to Werner's alma mater, and rgold & Elcapinyouazz are batting 1000 in the advice pool. Mr Rebel, you should have your partner read this thread.
Messages 1 - 43 of total 43 in this topic
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Trip Report and Articles
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews