The Borders Of Decency, Breasts, And A Little Fun. Ladies?

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survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Original Post - May 13, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
This is not a boob thread.

It is a conversation. So let's try to keep it constructive.

Moosedrool was apparently run off by "puritans"? Women? Boob haters? There seems to be a little confusion about this.

Blown apart bodies are ok? Just ask Hollywood.

Breasts are OK? Open vaginas are pornography? Exactly what are we after?


Just a couple thoughts from me, to start a civil conversation.

* I like breasts.
* I like looking at them.
* Photographs of breasts are not considered obscene by the site. Pictures of them have been allowed here for years.
* Pictures of underage people are not ok.
* Blown up bodies in war are far more obscene, and yet they are allowed here.
* Breasts are much more fun than blown up bodies.
* Women like breasts too, otherwise they wouldn't continue to allow people to take so many pictures of them.
* Off topic is clearly not the problem, just look at the history of political threads here.

I'm serious in asking what you consider ok/not ok, good taste/bad taste.

I am particularly interested in hearing the women on this one.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
I'm tired of this conversation.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
Thanks for posting and being brief.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 13, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
A quick google search will turn up dozens - maybe hundreds - of sites where you can post all the risqué pictures you want, and you won't run the chance of possibly offending anybody.

Time and place for everything.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
Does that mean that they're not welcome here?

Why hasn't admin taken a stand on this?

It's a Not In My Backyard issue?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
It's not our website. We are just guests here.

Too many people just don't seem to understand or want to accept this.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 13, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
High schools in Sweden only have one locker room. They think we're nutters.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Too many people just don't seem to understand or want to accept this.


Which people? Apparently the owner has no problem with breasts.

That's the point.
Spanky

Social climber
boulder co
May 13, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
This is a rock climbing site! I like boobs as much as the next guy but this isn't really the place. For that matter I don't think the political and gun threads make sense here either. ST should get back to basics and keep climbing on the front page. just my 2 cents
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 13, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
I'm sorry moosedrool was run off as I enjoyed some of his other contributions. He was however, deliberately testing the boundaries by posting his thread after the previous boob thread was eliminated. Perhaps this is a quiet indication from management that boob threads are no longer accepted here??

Personally I find them boring, but not as disgusting as some of the other stuff posted.

Turn the tables around though and ask yourself how the guys would feel if the women of ST, few as we are, began posting dozens, maybe hundreds of photos of penises. Would the men want to look at them, just ignore the thread, be disgusted, make sick jokes about it, or start threatening women about it in a menacing way?

Then ask yourself, if males get aroused by either boobs or penis threads, who will likely be sexually harrassed, males or females? Then ask yourself if maybe the issue is not one of aesthetic pleasures vs puritanism but of power relationships on an already macho site?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 01:38pm PT


"Moosedrool was apparently run off by "puritans"? Women?"...

moosedrool wasn't "Run off"...

He chose to back away...

Big difference!!!...
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 01:40pm PT


"This is a rock climbing site!"...

That is correct!!!...

But you are posting on a, "CLIMBERS FORUM" (Open discussion about whatever)...

can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
May 13, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
But how many of those boobs that the guys like to ogle have anything to do with climbing?

A good friend greeted me on top after doing the Direct NW face of Lembert.
My lucky day.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#302947

The rest of you go put a fig leaf on Michelangelo's David
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
May 13, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
"This is a rock climbing site!"

Perhaps.

Or perhaps it is a site for rock climbers.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 13, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
And can't say, did you have permission to post that photo on ST from the woman involved? If not, she's not a willing poser but has had her privacy violated.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 01:46pm PT


"Turn the tables around though and ask yourself how the guys would feel if the women of ST, few as we are, began posting dozens, maybe hundreds of photos of penises"...


I seriously doubt that we dudes here would react at all similar to how the woman have...

But that's also how nature intended it...

crunch

Social climber
CO
May 13, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
the issue is not one of aesthetic pleasures vs puritanism but of power relationships on an already macho site?

Thanks Jan. Nicely put.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
What would you think of someone who repeatedly visits your preferred gear store, and loudly complains about how the store isn't laid out the way they they'd like it to be?

Personally, I'd be thinking 'you need to be shopping elsewhere'.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
""Turn the tables around though and ask yourself how the guys would feel if the women of ST, few as we are, began posting dozens, maybe hundreds of photos of penises"..."...

To elaborate...

the few dudes here that continue to come down on those of us that truly APPRECIATE the female form...

well, they WOULDN'T MIND AT ALL!!!...

John M

climber
May 13, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
Why are those who leave, such as Crimpie, wusses for not being able to handle the abuse they got and the disrespect towards women,. But Moosedrool is just a nice guy run off by "puritans"?

I am not saying that you Survival called Crimpie or any of the other people who have stopped posting wusses, but they have been and they have been told they should just toughen up. So should Moosedrool just toughen up?

To be clear, I like Moosedrool. I hope he continues posting. But he should remember that there are lots of different kinds of people on this forum and in my opinion that is one of the things that makes it a cool place. I like breasts too. I just also want to be sensitive to those who are offended.

Personally, I would prefer to see breasts then the pics of puke, crap, etc. I don't even read some peoples posts anymore because of the high likelyhood of gross pictures.

I still don't know what caused him to write the apology thread. Can anyone point me in that direction?
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 13, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
So women are supposed to appreciate the aesthetics of looking at other women but guys who appreciate the same are deviant and subject to ridicule?
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 13, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
Moosedrool was apparently run off by "puritans"? Women? Boob haters? There seems to be a little confusion about this.

I find it perplexing that women are frequently pointed to as being the ones who are objecting to these types of thread, when the majority of comments do not come from women.

I know a lot of women who lurk on this site and believe me, they are not sending messages privately, or posting opening. It's offensive that the mindset of some here is that "women are ruining the fun." That mindset is pervasive on this site, at times, and frankly, it's tiring to me. Some women also find it intimidating and/or threatening.

High schools in Sweden only have one locker room. They think we're nutters.

Having had conversations with European men and women, what I found was that if the guys in Europe acted as googly-eyed and horn-doggy over the women they share topless beaches(and apparently locker rooms) with, those men would be seen as perverts or social misfits.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 13, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
I don,t think it,s a problem with breasts per say, but rather a problem with the perception that whats posted is pornographic in nature. So if it was a collection of average nudists with average bodies, well then people would probably just recoil in disgust.

Instead, what I think people are offended by is what they view as sexually explicit content. Which is different from violent content, or at least i hope it is.

Course, there,s that dude that said rock gets him hard over on Ron A,s baggin a virgin crag thread, so I could be wrong.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 01:58pm PT


"So women are supposed to appreciate the aesthetics of looking at other women but guys who appreciate the same are deviant and subject to ridicule?"...

YEP!!!...

;-)

Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 13, 2013 - 01:58pm PT


There.

Everybody happy now?
can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
May 13, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
Jan, yes I do as a matter of fact. She is an old friend who isn't afraid of nudity. That being said, this was over 30 years ago and we both looked much better then today.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 13, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
It's not our website. We are just guests here.

Too many people just don't seem to understand or want to accept this.


The contributed photos, stories, and the community. Yes, you are wrong.

Fortunately, Cmac seems to mostly get that, and that has kept this forum much more adult in tone (for better or for worse) than the more moderated alternatives.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 13, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
Locker-

So hetero men are allowed to make the rules is what I hear you saying and the rest of us should just adjust to your sensibilities? It seems to me that attitude is what's offensive, not any body part of itself.
BobLoblaw

climber
May 13, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
"Having had conversations with European men and women, what I found was that if the guys in Europe acted as googly-eyed and horn-doggy over the women they share topless beaches(and apparently locker rooms) with, those men would be seen as perverts or social misfits."

This is a chicken and the egg thing. The reason (some) Americans have such strong reactions is precisely because of how conservative our approach is to such things. If you see anything all the time you're much less likely to have an extreme reaction than if you see that thing rarely, especially if what you're seeing has been deemed lewd or inappropriate by the society you're ingrained in.

I haven't been visiting this site for very long, so I don't know the history of any harassment or anything like that, but the idea that simply posting photos of anonymous breasts is demeaning to women here just seems crazy. I wouldn't care if there were a penis thread with 10,000 posts...it's easier to not click threads you're not interested in than to click them, right?
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
May 13, 2013 - 02:06pm PT
Personally, I don't think this needs to be debated any further. This is just another extension of Boobgate and it's been going for way too long.

With the admin's deletion of the original boob thread, and then the deletion of Moose's posts, and the uproar this causes every damned time, maybe you should get a damned clue and stop posting this stuff up.

Don't get me wrong, I personally loved the boob thread, I am a guy. But the fact is that many of our users aren't, and many who are guys don't find that content to be appropriate.

The administration of this site has been trying to gently get the point across that this content is not welcome or wanted here. And anyone who has been here for any length of time knows that the admins of this site do not come out and post "Hey stop doing that" - they have tried to get the point across and eventually I think they will just get tired of it and drop the ban hammer down and do a mass cleanout.

Maybe we should just get the point already and drop this whole subject and delete the tons of debate on it.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 02:07pm PT

Jan...




EDITED:

"and then the deletion of Moose's posts"...

Almost certain that moosedrool deleted his photo's...

NOT the "Admin"...


NO ACTION was taken against moosedrool...

ALL deleting was voluntary on his part...

Almost positive...

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
"The contributed photos, stories, and the community...."

....to a privately owned website.

Don't like the way it is managed, or uses your 'material'? Find another place to post it.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
May 13, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
Moosdrool Stexecuted? Silly... silly...silly...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 13, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
No, I just said I like how it's managed. You don't seem to though? You want more moderation? Heads to roll maybe?

User content absolutely makes these sort of sites, privately owned or no. Cmac gets that. Maybe you don't.

Of course, bottom line is he can do whatever he wants. I guess if that's the elementary school lesson you're trying to impart: Thanks, teach!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 02:15pm PT


Credit: locker
...


Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
May 13, 2013 - 02:20pm PT

Zvuki Mu - These guys rock.
So do Monthy Python.
And so did Moosedrool - often.
Do ST rock?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 13, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
"You don't seem to though? "

I haven't expressed much of an opinion one way or the other, at least not in this thread. Since you asked, though....

I enjoy the OT parts of ST and the diverse community of opinions. It might be less interesting to me if it didn't have this kind of stuff, but given the obvious hard work & commitment that the owners/managers have in the place, I'm happy to accept it on their terms, and respect their judgement.

Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
May 13, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Apogee

My perspective is: To accept the decision. And still be free to laugh at the judgement - if I want to.

Capt.
The machismo in Italy is over the top. The machismo in Scandinavia and the northern part of Europe is very low.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
May 13, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
Happie-Obviously you've actually never been to Europe.The machismo in Europe is over the top.But I'm glad you learned all about the place by speaking with some of their locals.

Edit-Yes, Marlow you absolutely are correct.I found Italy to be crazy machismo style.Sorry,did not mean to stereotype all Europeans.I will say that after attending Sorbonne,I found France to be a close second.Don't even get me started on SA. ;-)
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 13, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
So what, then, is the difference between celebrating fine human form and pornography? If it strikes awe in your heart its ok, but if it arouses you its porn?

Its only physical appearance we celebrated here, not physical agility, not impressive intellect, just boobs. Boobs that got people hot and bothered. And thats where the line got crossed.

So far the violence and the outright insults have not led to arrousal, so they stand.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
Maybe we should just get the point already and drop this whole subject and delete the tons of debate on it.


Umm, no.

Honestly, I'd rather see all the left/right hate threads go away.

The penis thread is fine too. Don't click it if you don't like it.

Are Bullwinkle's B&W boobs ok? Why?
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
May 13, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
Ummm,Deans pix have raised a bit of ire here and there.Let's not forget he actually did "Stone Dudes" one year.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 13, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
Where do I get a copy of that? Lol


Yawn.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 13, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
Well, so far there seems to have been a loose concensus that nude pics below the belt are, well, hitting below the belt. Personally, i blame religion. But thats another thread, one that i dont clique with. The holier-than-thou righteousness offends me, so i dont go there.

Anyway, biological fact says most (not all) are not visually stimulated by a man,s junk. So the penis thread was worthless with pics.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 03:29pm PT


"Personally, i blame religion."...

I too believe that is a LARGE part of it...

But not all conservative peoples are religious...

hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 13, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
I try not to think or speak in absolutes, but its a challenge sometimes. Besides...
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YER GONNA DIE!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 13, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
Yawn.


Whatsamatter Michelle, need pix? lol....
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
May 13, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
I'm sure a compromise can be reached.












locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 03:47pm PT

Good lord goatboy...


LMAO!!!...







EDITED:

"most of the time i am shaking my head at most people thinking how can you let yourself go like that so bad you are f*#king gross i could not live with myself."...


I wonder if ANY of the woman here posting against the BOOB stuff fits the above???...

Perhaps some JEALOUSY is involved since the photo's posted are pretty much always of HOT, YOUNG, SUPER ATTRACTIVE, IN SHAPE, WOMAN....



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 13, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
McDick Fart....Thanks for the words of wisdom....What team did you ride for...? RJ
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
May 13, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
On the other hand it is my opinion that we as a society "Americans" have created the problem with the human form all our own. Sure context is everything but in ANY context there is nothing wrong with the human form. At least not in any manner i have seen it represented on SP.

BINGO,WORD

Werner's right,
we are















STUPID AMERICANS
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 13, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
The issue isn't really about admiring or praising the human form...it's about the implications permeating a given photo or piece of art.

Initiate a thread with an innocent, artsy nude...and some will escalate and take it down the path to some very warped and degrading material.

Personally, I'm most offended by those who bomb meaningful, productive threads with disgusting in-your-face smut...then retreat back to the "ah, well we just like boobs" refuge.

A recent example,here, posting two bleached blonde women, in bikinis, simulating cunnilingus with a clear-cut dominantion/subordination theme pervading the thing...not about venerating the human form...not about real life...just a smutty fantasy flaunted before everyone participating in the thread.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 13, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
^^^ Perhaps you could copy paste the 2 hot blonde simu-bikinilinguist picture you mention Jennie so we don't have to spend hours searching for it. Then we'll know what you are discussing as it relates to your clear-cut domination/subordination point.

A close up if you have one. With various and different angles.





When I was young I use to get buck assed naked in public all the time. We have some nice beaches close by where if you wear clothes you feel like a perv. However, you have to play to the lowest common denominator if you have a site like this, and a lot of the comments were mean spirited and off the charts unnecessary and close to harassment. Sort of like Ken M's hate email to Moosedrool. People can do better. Maybe not Mechrist/Weschrist who seems to just be a total dumbass and douchbag at all times, but a dude like Ken who is purported to be a doctor.
Dapper Dan

Trad climber
Menlo Park
May 13, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
The idea that anyone is owed an explanation or entitled to be given some warning before getting kicked off this website is ridiculous . There is no Bill of Rights here...

... Maybe an administrator just got tired of all the extraneous bickering and 'tit' for tat that Moosedrool seemed to always create . Good riddance to the dude , maybe he has more time to climb now .

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
^^^


Why do people keep thinking it was ADMIN here that deleted moosedrools photo's???...

moosedrool did that, HIMSELF!!!...

He VOLUNTARILY pulled it all because he fuking GIVES A SH!T and didn't want it to cause any more problems than it did...

His thread and posts are about FUN and FUKING around...

Dude is not some malicious, as#@&%e...

No one TOLD or MADE him do it...

(At least I don't think they did)...



Was there ANY action taken by the OWNERS of this site concerning moose???...

Pretty sure there wasn't...

If there was, I will happily stand corrected...

couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 13, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
Locker...got any 2 hot blonde simu-bikinilinguist pictures exhibiting a clear-cut domination/subordination theme? Oh you'll be "standing corrected" I'm sure.

Not that there is anything wrong with it...
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 06:08pm PT


This is STILL my favorite...

and there is NOTHING offensive about it!!!...

photo not found
Missing photo ID#302973

It's absolutely BEAUTIFUL!!!...(I mean the photo of course)



hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 13, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
nothing offensive to YOU.
dirtbag

climber
May 13, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
I'm glad some people are keeping abreast of this topic.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 13, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
Credit: Snowmassguy
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 13, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
^^^ thats some funny shyte!
Boobs keep bouncing around.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 06:12pm PT

"nothing offensive to YOU."...

If anyone is offended by that photo I honestly DON'T give a fuk!!!...

No nudity, no sexual content, etc...

Just a beautiful figure in a super nice and tight suit...

Of course it doesn't hurt that it's a bit stuck in an area of desire...



patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 13, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
Its all fun and games until locker posts up a cameltoe
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 06:15pm PT


Trying to please everyone is foolish...

Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 13, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
So women are supposed to appreciate the aesthetics of looking at other women....
if the boobs stay contained to the boob thread no one is forcing you to go look at them. if you are continually going there and looking then you are creating your own problem. if the boobs keep popping up all over and getting "misplaced" well then yes i understand how people who do not want to see that content will get peeved. all those stoopid religion threads bother me. i just do not go there. plain and simple. to each there own. i am not creating a huge fuss over it. and that is just as "off topic" on this forum as boobs.

yes, start a penis thread, or even just a man thread or whatever. that would not bother me in the least. i am a hetero man who is perfectly comfortable with nudity/sexuality.

yes there are hella fukin' pervs in italy and france. my wife has spent a lot of time there and has all kinds of stories of old gross guys masturbating in public, being rubbed on on the bus, seeing guys rubbing on nuns during service in the vatican......etc. we are human and some are perverted horndogs (including women) and some are completely repressed. this forum is very diverse and will run the gamut of all types. that's the way it is, has always been, and will continue to be.

my wife did not mind the boob thread at all. she has seen me clicking on it many a time......
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 13, 2013 - 06:18pm PT
I am a only child of a very attractive single mother....
hey farty dick... what's ur mom's number???
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
^^^

So you post a photo of my Grand daughter???...(Yes!!! That is in FACT, my Granddaughter posted above this)



I don't think she would be offended by it either...

She just so happens to have one of her own...



EDITED:

Isn't she BEAUTIFUL by the way???...

Super SWEET and COOL kid!!!...

;-)

KP Ariza

climber
SCC
May 13, 2013 - 06:26pm PT
To answer to your question can't say,
So, should I get banned because I posted a pic of a naked body?

....Uh, No!

Goat boy, maybe...that just killed my buzz
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#297994
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 13, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
well thiS is going three steps toward nuking. so much for discussion.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 13, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
I've never really had a dog in these boob fights but I've always thought it's a DB move to drag other people's kids (or grand kids) into supertardo spats.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 13, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
My regrets, Couchmaster...I won't be posting inappropriate photos for "critical analysis".

The gist of my post was:

If members must post lewd material, and the ST executives approve...common courtesy would mandate keeping it on the sham threads. At least clicking on such discussions, we know we're traveling through the abode of pornified spirits.

Bombing legitimate threads with inane, vulgar material degrades the dialogue... and in many cases is blatant display of disrespect.

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
By the way Crunch...

I HOPE that all of my Grandchildren DO NOT grow up to be sexually frustrated conservative freaks...

and I SINCERELY hope that my granddaughter in particualr grows to be sexually UNINHIBITED and has a fuking BLAST just the same as we DUDES get to do...

It SHOULD go BOTH ways...


Sex ISN'T gross or dirty, or wrong...

Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 13, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
My moms # is 555 1212 put a smile on her face please!!!!
http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/gif-2-thumbs-up.gif
^^^ how do embed this thing? ^^^
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
If members must post lewd material, and the ST executives approve...common courtesy would mandate keeping it on the sham threads.

same for the religious material
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 06:44pm PT

^^^

Only problem with that post Some Random, is the dude you posted giving the "Thumbs up" is GAY...

Pretty sure he isn't really into a MOM...
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 13, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
damn dude, yer right. now i got egg all over my face

EDIT: i just set myself up BIG TIME.......
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
May 13, 2013 - 06:48pm PT
damn dude, yer right. now i got egg all over my face

Keep telling yourself it's egg that's on your face. Denial, as they say, is not just a river in Egypt. :-)

Edit: I can't help it if you keep setting yourself up. :-)
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
May 13, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
To me this is all about control. If you don't like it, don't click on the thread. Don't try to control me or others that have a different set of values than you. This is a site that caters to a LARGE cross-section of the community. For us all to get along, there needs to be tolerance. Tolerate my love of boobs and quit trying to force me to comply with your standards for right and wrong.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
^^^

EDITED and fuking BIG TIME BINGO!!!...



Just people TRYING to CHANGE you to think like they do...





kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
more images(boob) please.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
May 13, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
Sex ISN'T gross or dirty, or wrong...
the Prudes hate reminders of their incompetence
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 13, 2013 - 07:10pm PT
Just people TRYING to CHANGE you to think like they do...




And what are the porn-meisters who bomb valid, non-smutty threads with lewd material doing, Locker?

Seems to me it's an obvious provocation to compel people to consider a discussion in a prurient manner...,
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
Survival, can we turn this into a boob thread now?

jennie can go find wes to argue with.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 13, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
It is easy to not click on obvious threads. It's annoying and offensive when Im trying to read about climbingbg and get an eyefull of blue butt plugs, tits and close up shots of camel toe bikinis. Keep it contained is all I would like.


There IS an ugly overtone of bullying, especially of the women who speak up. Do you all roll up and behave this way around women in person? I seriously doubt that. Of course, I invite anyone who meets me to try it :)
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
May 13, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
crunch-That was the most childish thing I've seen on this site.What grade are you in??
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
there's threads with climbing content here?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 13, 2013 - 07:26pm PT
Think of it in real world terms.

I love hot springs, and I prefer to be naked while bathing in them. However, if it's a tub that seems to be not nude, I cover up when I'm hanging out with those people.

I enjoy the boobs, but if others dissent, I respect their opinion.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 13, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
So far in a thread asking women what they think, four women have responded and thirty guys. A significant portion of the thirty guys then proceed to tell the women that they are prudes, sexually uptight, jealous, and mean spirited, and defend the idea that they should be able to post what ever where ever, never mind what the site administrators and their advertisers think. I still say the bottom line issue is not art, and not sex, but power.
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 13, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
It's annoying and offensive when Im trying to read about climbingbg and get an eyefull of blue butt plugs....
so then, as long as locker keeps the butt plugs in the closet we should be fine?
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 13, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
So far in a thread asking women what they think, four women have responded and thirty guys. A significant portion of the thirty guys then proceed to tell the women that they are prudes, sexually uptight
there have been some men (on past threads) that have shown a distaste for the boobs here. yeah it mostly has been men responding here so far hasn't it. prolly cuz all us losers don't have jobs. all the wimmins are out werkin' real jobs.
Timid TopRope

Social climber
'used to be Paradise, CA
May 13, 2013 - 07:49pm PT
I have female and male climbing friends that either used to post on ST, post very infrequently, or lurk here and do not register and comment for various reasons, not necessarily because of sexual content but due to the high level of stupidity associated with some posters past and present.

Many of my female and gay climbing friends have put up with the good old boy, sexual innuendo, macho tone of the mostly heterosexual male dominated sport of climbing because they love to climb and have an affinity with others who share that passion and the rewards of testing ones limits, overcoming fears and being outdoors in beautiful places.

Some of my friends have told me that participating on ST started out as a positive experience, much like other social media, where they reconnected with old friends and shared past experiences and route beta but soon found that reading from the same dozen or so posters constantly throwing out their one line smart ass remarks turned them off and quietly left the site.

Getting back to the topic of the OP; this site will remain the domain and focus of an alpha male pack mentality, stuck in the confines of anti-PC.
To drag out that old PC chestnut; "Men of quality respect women's equality". Men who consider themselves aligned with feminist values can empathize with women who do not wish to be objectified as sexual eye candy.

I am not a prude, religious, nor do I believe in censorship but I do try to have a little empathy towards those who are not white heterosexual males. I agree with Jan that the real subject at hand is not about sexualized content but about power and the 1001 ways that straight males have wielded it over the millenniums in subtle and not so subtle ways.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 07:56pm PT

"Of course, I invite anyone who meets me to try it :)"...

Not me!!!...

You'd kick my ass...

;-)

Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
May 13, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
Locker posting a picture of his beautiful granddaughter just a few posts away from his infamous 'camel toe' picture, (which he clearly does not find offensive), makes him the poster child for all the twisted souls on this site....and what makes this place clearly not worth it.

Moving on....
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
May 13, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
no comment!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 08:07pm PT


I am a poster child...

Hooray!!!...

Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
May 13, 2013 - 08:08pm PT
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

But obesity can be measured.
Onewhowalksonrocks

Mountain climber
In the middle of the ocean
May 13, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
I received this e mail this last weekend. I don't think he likes boobs.

Greetings from a Fellow SuperTopo Member!

This message has been sent from a fellow registered SuperTopo climbing member to you.

The message is:
F*#ktard.

I hope and pray that a woman in your life is harassed, over and over, to breaking down, and you have to endure her despair.

Enjoy being a source of that to other women, until you learn what a deviant you are.

Sent by: Ken M <kmurray@dr.com>

Visit the world's best climbing information website
http://www.supertopo.com
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 13, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
It's not beauty that is in the eye of the beholder... it is offensive content.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
Moving on....

yeah, go slander the president of the united states with yer tea bagger buddies on politard thread.classy
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 13, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
Moving on....

see, there's a bright side.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 08:37pm PT

"it is offensive content."...

I don't find it offensive and neither do a lot of others here...

So we're back to square one...

Which ONE of us has the right to say what the other should or should not find offensive???...

Mind you, I BARELY participated on the BOOB thread...

Not because it offended me...

Because I knew it was going to end up causing a stir...

THAT was obvious and one reason I posted earlier that I thought it was a bit of a RUB...



Oh well...

I'm rambling...

My head is fuking SPINNING (reasons beyond my control)...

I KNOW I am soon to go off the deep end (FOR THE SAME REASONS BEYOND MY CONTROL)...



So I am out of here in...

3,2,1...




Fuk it!!!...



Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 13, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
Maybe my words are falling on deaf ears...



Think of it in real world terms.

I love hot springs, and I prefer to be naked while bathing in them. However, if it's a tub that seems to be not nude, I cover up when I'm hanging out with those people.

I enjoy the boobs, but if others dissent, I respect their opinion.


It's about respect. When I'm a little buzzed, talking trash around a campfire, I am known to tell tasteless stories. When I sense that someone is offended (intuition, it works) I shut my trap. The same applies here.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
it is offensive content.

I'm sorry that breasts are offensive to you, that must suck.

Maybe my words are falling on deaf ears...

I think so.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 13, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
What I find interesting is that you two conservative fuks didn't say a god damned thing when that douchebag CRUNCH posted that photo FIRST, of my Grand Daughter on this thread...

Speaking directly to you Dean and 10bfukwad for no one...

;-)




and with that I am aging leaving in...

3,2,1...


Fuk off!!!...

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 13, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
Locker twisted..? Don't judge until him until you've smelled the glue....
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
May 13, 2013 - 09:23pm PT

Topic Author's Original Post - May 13, 2013 - 10:22am PT
This is not a boob thread.

 Locker said
Mind you, I BARELY participated on the BOOB thread...

 But when he does, he provides the best in class camel toe shots the web has to offer…


kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
This is not a boob thread
is that like, I'm not prejudice but....
Timid TopRope

Social climber
'used to be Paradise, CA
May 13, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
Lighten up mcfartin. I'm the first one to tell a joke in poor taste in the company of my friends. I wasn't trying to lord it over anyone and just calling it as I see it and was just making some talking points. I happen to find porn hilarious and not offended by it but am trying to explain why some don't dig it for the reason that Jan is saying: not about sex but power.

Stringing together a series of thoughts does read like it's all so serious but serious aint my thing: more post punk than sensitive new age guy (snag). Snags bug me.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
May 13, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Can I say the words "No Comment" again
for extra influence
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 13, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
I'm sorry moosedrool was run off as I enjoyed some of his other contributions


I agree, Jan...Moosedrool is a very likable person.

He appears to not be posting. I think he started that thread to curry favor with the bellowing herd...and had second thoughts...

Hopefully he's not being held hostage :-)

...and he and Dean will choose to return.
WBraun

climber
May 13, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
F*#king people need to lighten up, life is not so freaking serious.

Life is very very serious.

Only stupid people say it's not so serious.

Behavior is something different then life.

If you want to behave like and idiot then you're an idiot.

Stupid people here can't even distinguish the difference between behavior and life .....

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 13, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
Jennie....Supertopo is a no-hostage facility.....
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 13, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
Werner,how do you feel about a nice rack? and you know what kind of rack I'm referring to.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 13, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
Supertopo is a no-hostage facility.....

That's reassuring...ha-ha!
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 13, 2013 - 09:55pm PT
OK, let me think back on this. 1st we had an extremely tragic situation unfold practically right in front of our own eyes on the 'WWW'. Then, here on g00d ol' super T within hours, the shock turns to outrage with sides being taken, blah, blah, blah. Who wuld'a guessed. It further devolves, while bumping everything off of the front page, into what might end up being the flashpoint for something that will make the American Civil War look like a walk in the park. Talk about heated & vitrolic...sheesh.

So, Anastasia (a woman, btw, case someone hasn't noticed ) gets an idea, and initiates the 1st boob thread with high hopes of it becoming somewhat of a distraction, at least, from the sh#t storm dominating the front page. And who knows, perhaps she was instrumental in preventing a bloody civil war here in Amurica, eh?

So, for some reason or other, it gets deleted! I never checked out Moosedrools boob thread, so I can't comment on it. My assessment of him on the "LOL, C'YA" thread were a reflection of what I had came too regarding his posts on other threads (didn't get around to checking out any of his personal threads) so I'm not sure why some peeps are so upset with him.

Not sure where things are going at this point. Sorry to see so many people leave. I do tend to be analytical, and can see fairly strong arguments coming from at least three different directions, including the two prevalent ones here. But I will spare you that and just keep my mouth shut. Plenty of other threads to give my opinion of what constitutes pornography and what is simply appreciation/admiration or demeaning, or whatever of the female form. And what has the added capacity to lead a youngster down that seemingly never ending road that would best not be traveled. Which brings this thought to ponder; there are probably a lot of youth also lurking, perhaps we should keep that in mind at times, not only in regards to what they may see, but with what they might hear.

Cheerio!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 13, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
Moose-drool is a pollack and Anastasia is a greco...They are both smart and we are stupid...
LilaBiene

Trad climber
May 13, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
Hey, I didn't even post to this thread, and I'm being called all kinds of names I've never been called before...just because I'm female. So much for discourse.

I think the human form is beautiful. I'm trying to raise the muppet so that she is comfortable in her own skin. We are all naked underneath our clothes -- it's not something you can really get around. True beauty, imho, is not something that can be seen in a flat picture, but rather in the way a person interacts with the world.

What I very honestly don't understand is why there seems to be such a great need to try to shock and intimidate other people. I don't need to be told that this behavior exists (many of the posters to this thread have rather (inadvertently) made it very clear that it does) -- as a woman, I've had to navigate around jungle animals my entire life. Some clearly aspire to behaving like an animal that lacks an evolved frontal lobe -- it is what it is.

My creative writing professor in college taught that it was okay to use swearing in your writing, so long as it was used as a spice, like salt or pepper. Serve up an entire dish of one or the other, and you're writing will just be a pile of sh#t.

We all express ourselves and interact with the world in different ways -- in written, visual, aural, kinesthetic and other forms -- I respect that. What doesn't earn my respect is abusive behavior. But that's just me.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 13, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Jan, the OP didn't say he wanted womens opinions "only". He said he was particularly interested their view. Men were not excluded. That many men posted may be more a function of how many men are reading. That women may get shut down or dissed due to stupidity from men or simple misreading is a sad thing, but I know it occurs. I see people disrespecting others for the damned reasons, a lot of it not related to sex at all. I saw a bunch of people take offense to Dean for making a Christian comment. A lot of those came back in force when he shot the bear. It's all disheartening. I've seen less dished out to Locker, but he gets some too. Sadly. Wish folks could lighten up a tad.

This kind of needless baloney:
"That douchebag dean leaves every week with his panties bunched but always comes back. He is the herpes virus of supertopo."

Never met him, but Dean's done more for others on ST recently than the mean spirited person making that comment has in his life I would bet.

"That's a real classy, and mature response, locker, but coming from you, that's what I expected."

Another meanspirited comment. See, it's not just about sex or bodies or whatever. Some folks just can't hold their liqueur it appears. Threads often degrade into bad form. Sorry to see it, and it's common.


Best to all.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 13, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
Cragman shot a bear....? Bastard...!
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 13, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
Locker posting a picture of his beautiful granddaughter just a few posts away from his infamous 'camel toe' picture, (which he clearly does not find offensive)
wow, locker's got a freakin' HOT camel toe! who woulda thunk it...
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
May 13, 2013 - 10:35pm PT
Here's the deal as I myopically see it - we have this open and free network of instant global communications called the Internet - a place where all can be free and spew rainbows of unicorn enlightenment upon their fellow man.

Except that about half the people on this planet are as#@&%es and the other half doesn't think it's them.

In the old days when relationships were face-to-face, you could decide in a minute whether you wanted to hang out with Firepit Crowd 1 or Firepit Crowd 2. We could avoid as#@&%es at will.

What this usually meant was that over time - we migrated to like minded people with whom we could hold safe and predictable conversations without panty bunching or pearl clutching coming into play.

Back in the early Usenet days, we had happy conversations with others just like ourselves, We were erudite, witty, polite, civil and interesting all in a glorious non-confrontational manner. It was like living in a PBS series!

Then came Forums - where every as#@&%e in the world had as much right as we to post their vitriol. Rude, crude and totally disimbued of all forms of human decency. We are appalled. We tattle to Nannies, we hide our account, we waggle our flabby necks with much indignation. We demand retribution and immediate restoral of our happy place.

Which asks the question of why we endure each other on this site?

Because we each once happened to grope the same chunk of granite?

That's it?

That's the totality of our community?

No wonder Werner calls us names.













Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 13, 2013 - 10:48pm PT
parity in what constitutes "art" derived from the human form isn't new, from a post about a year ago...
...perhaps you should mediate on the controversy surrounding Anita Steckel's art... her obit appears in the NYTimes today...
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/27/arts/design/anita-steckel-artist-who-created-erotic-works-dies-at-82.html

She was unapologetic in her choices of subject matter... here is a quote from the NYTimes:


The commotion made her momentarily famous in the pages of art publications (which generally liked her work) and in New York City tabloids (which generally did not). And it led her to form an organization of female artists, known as the Fight Censorship Group, whose membership would include Louise Bourgeois and Hannah Wilke. A mission statement she wrote for the group became a sort of manifesto for many women creating experimental art. “If the erect penis is not wholesome enough to go into museums,” it said in part, “it should not be considered wholesome enough to go into women.”


you can google her, and see her images, but they may not be appropriate for work...

another quote sums it up nicely: "Her ventures in erotica, she said, were in part intended to establish the right of women to make art from the male figure — just as men had for millenniums created art from the nude female figure."

it is relatively recently that women have had that right... certainly in my lifetime... and still it seems only grudgingly given.

Climbing is still dominated by males, climbing forums like this will assume male "culture."

Males don't see what all the fuss is about... it's just fun to them, so why not?
Seems like a common justification by a dominant culture.

splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 13, 2013 - 11:06pm PT
rj - Cragman shot a bear....? Bastard...!

Shot a naked bear! Let's try and keep this conversation on subject. Attempting to break in through a window. Must'a took balls to do that. Which brings up this point; why don't they put some damn cloths on? Roaming around all hours of the day and night naked and with their business all hanging out! sheesh!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 13, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
splitter...we both know that man went nude until he ate the forbidden fruit....Moosedrool appparently had no access to the fruit on the other side of the berlin wall...?
Yodocdau

Social climber
Richmond, va
May 13, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
My goodness. You all take yourselves so seriously. Just quit going to threads you find objectionable. As a female, post all the body parts you want. Who cares? Just quit the kiddie porn.
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
May 13, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
^^^ Wow...That was nothing short of mean-spirited and vindictive.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 13, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
Sully,, show me my excessive bandwidth please? You OBVIOUSLY have some "issue" with me so spill it.
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 14, 2013 - 12:03am PT
rottingjohnny - Cragman shot a bear....? Bastard...!

splitter - shot a naked bear! lets keep this conversation on topic. ...

rj - splitter, we both know that man went nude tell he ate the forbidden fruit-Moosedrool apparently had no access to the fruit on the other side of the berlin wall...?

splitter - ok, sounds reasonable. but what's the damn Amurican bears excuse?

answer: they're perverts! everyone knows that yogi the bear & booboo were kinky from the get go. no big secret.

And, maybe they would get a little more respect if they started putting some damn cloths on. hey, i would'a shot a naked male bear trying to break into my house if i had women in their with me or not. never know what's it got on it's perverted mind, eh? sheesh!!!

so howsa'bout cutting cragman a little damn slack, already!?!
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 12:05am PT
If you do not like/enjoy/approve of a discussion topic, why click on and invest time reading a thread? If you don't like or approve of something that in no way impacts your everyday life....bitch about it. Yeah that is the politically correct thing to do. Geez....
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 14, 2013 - 12:05am PT
Pull the trigger already and get a divorce.

what a sweetheart
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 12:13am PT
Credit: Snowmassguy
troutbreath

climber
Kanada
May 14, 2013 - 01:12am PT
of the verbal kind
of the verbal kind
Credit: troutbreath
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 14, 2013 - 01:18am PT
so troutbreath, what's up with ur explosive diarrhea?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 14, 2013 - 01:19am PT
Credit: charles darwin barkley
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 14, 2013 - 01:20am PT
Credit: right wing historical fantasy revisionism?
WBraun

climber
May 14, 2013 - 01:21am PT
The last two guys above Wade can't even say anything they're so stupid.

They have to hunt a stupid photo off the internet to talk for them.

Thus mankind has fallen down far below the bottom.

Nothing but stupid people.

A sure sign of the fallen age .......
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
May 14, 2013 - 01:22am PT
Cragman said:
Locker posting a picture of his beautiful granddaughter just a few posts away from his infamous 'camel toe' picture, (which he clearly does not find offensive), makes him the poster child for all the twisted souls on this site...

Wow, that sounds a lot like a bunch of judgmental, sanctimonious bullsh#t. However, I am sure that is not the case. Cragman is so obviously filled with the love and light of Jesus he would never stoop to being an as#@&%e.
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 14, 2013 - 01:28am PT
rome fell once....it's going again....
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
May 14, 2013 - 01:31am PT
Thus mankind has fallen down far bellow[sic] the bottom.

Nothing but stupid people.

Is English your second language?
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 14, 2013 - 01:53am PT
The Vagina Speaks!



Are the boobs art or pornography?


.... let's consult some feminists!



(from Wikipedia)
Sex-positive feminism

'Sex-positive feminism centers on the idea that sexual freedom is an essential component of women's freedom. As such, sex-positive feminists oppose legal or social efforts to control sexual activities between consenting adults, whether these efforts are initiated by the government, other feminists, opponents of feminism, or any other institution. They embrace sexual minority groups, endorsing the value of coalition-building with members of groups targeted by sex-negativity. Sex-positive feminism is connected with the sex-positive movement.

Gayle Rubin (Rubin, 1984) summarizes the conflict over sex within feminism:
...There have been two strains of feminist thought on the subject. One tendency has criticized the restrictions on women's sexual behavior and denounced the high costs imposed on women for being sexually active. This tradition of feminist sexual thought has called for a sexual liberation that would work for women as well as for men. The second tendency has considered sexual liberalization to be inherently a mere extension of male privilege. This tradition resonates with conservative, anti-sexual discourse.

The cause of sex-positive feminism brings together anti-censorship activists, LGBT activists, feminist scholars, sex radicals, producers of pornography and erotica, among others (though not all members of these groups are necessarily both feminists and sex-positive people). Sex-positive feminists reject the vilification of male sexuality that they attribute to many radical feminists, and instead embrace the entire range of human sexuality. They argue that the patriarchy limits sexual expression and are in favor of giving people of all genders more sexual opportunities, rather than restricting pornography (Queen, 1996). Sex-positive feminists generally reject sexual essentialism, defined by (Rubin, 1984) as "the idea that sex is a natural force that exists prior to social life and shapes institutions". Rather, they see sexual orientation and gender as social constructs that are heavily influenced by society.
Sex-radical feminists in particular come to a sex-positive stance from a deep distrust in the patriarchy's ability to secure women's best interest in sexually limiting laws. Other feminists identify women's sexual liberation as the real motive behind the women's movement. Naomi Wolf writes, "Orgasm is the body's natural call to feminist politics."[1] Sharon Presley, the National Coordinator of the Association of Libertarian Feminists,[2] writes that in the area of sexuality, government blatantly discriminates against women.'



'Gayle Rubin (Rubin, 1984) calls for a new feminist theory of sex, saying that existing feminist thoughts on sex had frequently considered sexual liberalization as a trend that only increases male privilege. Rubin criticizes anti-pornography feminists who she claims "have condemned virtually every variant of sexual expression as anti-feminist," arguing that their view of sexuality is dangerously close to anti-feminist, conservative sexual morality. '


------------------



http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2012/09/10/120910crbo_books_levy

BOOK review of Naomi Wolf’s “Vagina: A New Biography.” The women’s-liberation movement of the late sixties and the seventies—the so-called second wave of feminism—introduced Americans to the notion that their mothers and sisters and daughters ought not to be “objectified.” But from that philosophical starting place two factions of the women’s movement went in radically different directions. Susan Brownmiller, in league with other eminent feminists—Andrea Dworkin, Adrienne Rich, Gloria Steinem, and Robin Morgan—was convinced that pornography was the quintessential expression of women’s oppression in a culture that devalued their intellect and restricted them to sexualized second-class citizenship. Other, “pro-sex” feminists believed that their former allies had fallen into the age-old patriarchal habit of trying to control female sexual power and dictate its parameters. Naomi Wolf came to prominence in 1991, with the publication of “The Beauty Myth,” her first book. In it, she revisited the ideas that Brownmiller had explored half a decade earlier, in “Femininity,” and argued that things were getting worse. Many feminists, then, may be perplexed to find Wolf, in her eighth book, situating the essence of the female being right back where it started: in the body, in one particular place. Throughout “Vagina: A New Biography” (Ecco), Wolf refers to a “profound brain-vagina connection” but sometimes suggests that the vagina is, or ought to be, the rightful site of mission control. Wolf explicitly tries to distance herself, in this book, from her feminist foremothers. She accuses them of denigrating the vagina as something “retro, housewifey and passé” in their attempts at “reglamorizing the clitoris.” Wolf adopts the pro-sex-feminist position that sex is the solution to every problem and the source of everything worth anything. Mentions Georgia O’Keeffe and Alfred Stieglitz. “Fifty Shades of Grey” and its two sequels have been interpreted by many as a kind of S & M referendum on feminism, inconvenient evidence that what women really want is to be dominated and hurt. But the “Fifty Shades” series is less about a man being in charge of a woman than it is about a man worshipping a woman. The trilogy’s hero, Christian Grey, is the full-blown Wolfian ideal—a born yoni-tapper who focuses his masterly Goddess Array on our passionate narrator, Anastasia Steele. He says her name “like it’s a litany or a prayer.” He likes to give her candlelit bubble baths. He talks and talks about his feelings and listens and listens to hers. Is it going too far to say that Wolf’s book, which clearly belongs to the same realm of the erotic imagination as the Grey trilogy, is itself a kind of pornography? Wolf has found a mistress we must please, serve, and honor. There is a new dominatrix in town. And her name is Vagina.
(cont.)


-----------------



Pornography is degrading to women.
Degrading is a subjective term. I find commercials in which women become orgasmic over soapsuds to be tremendously degrading. The bottom line is that every woman has the right to define what is degrading and liberating for herself.
The assumed degradation is often linked to the "objectification" of women: that is, porn converts them into sexual objects. What does this mean? If taken literally, it means nothing because objects don't have sexuality; only beings do. But to say that porn portrays women as "sexual beings" makes for poor rhetoric. Usually, the term sex objects means showing women as body parts, reducing them to physical objects. What is wrong with this? Women are as much their bodies as they are their minds or souls. No one gets upset if you present women as "brains" or as spiritual beings. If I concentrated on a woman's sense of humor to the exclusion of her other characteristics, is this degrading? Why is it degrading to focus on her sexuality?
-Wendy McElroy
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 14, 2013 - 02:04am PT
Those are all very interesting intellectual viewpoints.

The reality of the world however, is that it is predominantly women who are harassed, raped, kidnapped, murdered and chained to the walls of some guy's basement for ten years, not the other way around. And it all began with objectifying women.

One critique of American feminism by foreigners by the way, is that it has concentrated too much on sexuality and not enough on maternity. I dare say a single woman with children to support is much more concerned with equal wages for equal work than she is by some academic feminist talking about having her vagina worshipped.
Daphne

Trad climber
Black Rock City
May 14, 2013 - 02:29am PT
I come here for the climbing content, and to connect with like-minded climbers. I have a lot of friends here. I have never clicked on either of the boob threads, but I haven't been able to ignore that they exist and I pass my glance by them and it does not feel good.


We do not need a penis thread. The way to give you guys a sample of what if feels like to be objectified is a money thread. That is the parallel issue for men. Show me the bank balances, guys. A really rich guy who can take excellent financial care of me is such a turn on. That's what women really care about anyway. Oooh, baby, you are only valuable because of what you can do for me financially. Or maybe a height thread. Show me all the guys taller than 6 feet, please? Did you know that the average height for men is 5'9"?


Focusing on individual parts of our humanity, like our youth, our sexual attraction, our bank balances or whether we can climb 5.12 or not minimizes all of us as human beings. Youth, sexuality, financial acumen, height, weight, etc. are all just facets of the diamond.

The kind of people who love the boob thread won't understand how it perpetuates misery. It separates out one tiny facet of a human being and sees only the facet, not the rest of the human being it came from. Little girls are taught that their value is in the facet, not in their totality. Little boys are taught the same. It is so very, very sad. Justify it however you want, the end result is the same.


The comparing mind is rampant and our society specializes in shaming all of us into thinking we aren't "good enough" at something. That's how control is maintained. Control is all about power. That is why Jan says this is all about power. She is right.

I know you don't want to see this. It is ok with me. I am not attached to changing anyone who doesn't want to be changed. But the thread asked Ladies to comment and I am female, so here you are.



survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 02:36am PT
Good post Daphne.

I'm surprised that the conversation has stayed pretty much in tact, and for the most part civil.

Thanks.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 14, 2013 - 02:45am PT
Jan wrote:

One critique of American feminism by foreigners by the way, is that it has concentrated too much on sexuality and not enough on maternity. I dare say a single woman with children to support is much more concerned with equal wages for equal work than she is by some academic feminist talking about having her vagina worshipped.

This is a thread is concerned with 'borders of decency' and images of breasts on the forum. In particular the OP desired input by women on this issue: to stimulate the discussion I posted thoughts of one group of feminists regarding their relationship to explicit images of the female body. By doing so, I'm in no way implying that feminism should restrict itself to issues of sexuality, but that's what this thread is concerned with, rather than for example, the issue of equal wages.


Jan wrote:

Those are all very interesting intellectual viewpoints.

Indeed.
Especially interesting for us, as the original boob thread was started (and vigorously promoted) by a woman (and mother). If I recall correctly it was started as a celebration of the sexual beauty of women's breasts (i.e. boobs) and in direct counterpoint to the abundant posts regarding firearms and violence. One will necessarily have to take that into account when exegeting any theories of power and control.


PS: there are arguments that pornography reduces violence against women, for a variety of reasons.

Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 14, 2013 - 02:48am PT
Outstanding posts, Jan and Daphne,,,absolutely stellar!

Climber Joe

Trad climber
May 14, 2013 - 02:48am PT
Jan,

Your dated cultural stereotyping in the fisticuffs thread was merely annoying. Here, you blame all kinds of specific crimes done to women on an intolerably vague "objectification" of them. From your use of the jargon, I'm guessing that you have some familiarity with the social sciences. Which means you do know that the causal connection you speak of is not unanimously or widely accepted, but held sacrosanct (I use the term deliberately) by a vocal minority. I suppose you would be a big fan of Iceland, for example--one of the most sexually liberal societies in the world, but at the same time prohibiting any form of porn because it is seen to "objectify" women.
You frequently mention how you see / judge "American" attitudes from an "international" perspective. Well, most of us have read the novel 1984 in high school. The kind of wholesale-conclusion-backed-by-sloppy-science that I see in your posts (as well as the paradoxical situation in Iceland), is waaaay too Orwellian for my liking. It scares me not least because the natural implication of your pronouncements is that limits should be placed not only on people's behavior, but also speech, and even thought. Now That really is all about power, as you have been fond of pointing out.
shiro16

climber
May 14, 2013 - 04:05am PT
Absence of pictures does not seem like it will fix the underlying issues.

Only mildly related, I've always wondered if things like the following link ever came up in the "boobs" thread.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/14/showbiz/angelina-jolie-double-mastectomy/index.html
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 14, 2013 - 06:40am PT
The whole thing is way overblown. Jan is full of sh#t simply because she compares chest shots to crotch shots. If the girls had a thread going with a bunch of bare chested men no one would care. if they did care they have too much time on their hands. typical internet Bs compareing chest shots to crotch shots like it is a fact.. If anyone left this site over the boob thread they obviously have issues.
lots of reasons to leave this site.
Personal attacks
polotical BS
weak self serving people reporting other people to admin with the hopes they get banned.
stupid annoying people.
a waste of your time
whatever. leaveing because you are offended by the unclothed human body is pretty messed up.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 14, 2013 - 07:47am PT
Women were asked their views and I gave mine. Suddenly I am being accused of being full of sh#t, doing dated cultural stereotyping, having sacrosanct (as in religious) views, being a fan of Iceland, practicing sloppy social science, and being Orwellian. I'm sure glad nobody else here but me is stereotyping!

This begs another question. When tradmanclimbs says that women's boobs and men's chests as equivalent, does this demonstrate the new politically correct avoidance of stereotyping?



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
May 14, 2013 - 08:03am PT
Interesting controversy over womens breast...Brings to mind the Moody Blues line...And we decide what is right...See what you started Anastasia...!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
May 14, 2013 - 08:27am PT
Absence of pictures does not seem like it will fix the underlying issues.

I know a guy fixes this cheaply and securely. He's "made" and he's
"sancrosact."
Credit: mouse from merced
"Hey, say, George, didn't we go thru this scene about thirty years ago?"

"Yes, we did. It's built into these types. It's ALL GOOD. Lots of room for everybody if they are reasonable.

Say goodnight, Vanessa."
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 14, 2013 - 10:26am PT
sullly - Until the guy can rival John Long in writing ability, or Russ W, in humor, stop hogging the boards.

Yes, John definitely has a way with words, concise and to the point...

Largo - "I'll take a crack at those questions later. Right now I'm doing some work under the master"...
Roshi Roxanne
Roshi Roxanne
Credit: Largo

and, from the 1st boob thread. not sure what John was extrapolating on here, since the post contained no caption other than 'Petunia'. perhaps 'a picture says a thousand words' ...dunno, i'm still scratching my head.
Petunia
Petunia
Credit: Largo
Trudy, Backwards Vegan
Trudy, Backwards Vegan
Credit: Matthew Mays, Mojokiss.com
photo not found
Missing photo ID#244376
Credit: Largo

And I concur, Russ W can be funnier than chit...
photo not found
Missing photo ID#207547
Live Long and Mack
Live Long and Mack
Power to spare!
Power to spare!
Credit: Russ Walling

i never did take the time to check out Moosedrools boob thread, nor any of his threads for that matter so not exactly sure what all the controversy is about. he is rehab'ing something, so perhaps once he is well, he'll post less (didn't realize he was posting a lot). and there is no question that he, like myself, ain't ever gonna come anywhere near Largo, in regards to writing. so i guess we're both chit outta luck in that dept. but he did say some pretty off the wall things on occasion, that i would never even dream of, that not only made me laugh and brightened up my day, but told me that he did have a unique sense of humor that is, at times, sorely needed and missing here on ST!

i also appreciate JL & RW's contributions. otherwise, not saying anything else by posting some of their stuff, other than what i pointed out earlier this evening/late last night on "LL LL" new thread, that there seems to be a double standard here on the Taco at times!

btw, i can't let Cragman off the hook here, although it pains me to post this pic again. imo, it shudda never happened. i think it alone was good enough reason to stay away from the boob threads. not sure what point he was making, but he does seem to be rather fond of this gal for some reason. from the 1st boob thread (and elsewhere)...
photo not found
Missing photo ID#303113
Climber Joe

Trad climber
May 14, 2013 - 10:32am PT
No, Jan. I was just giving my opinion, which is mostly a criticism of your opinions. Of course you are free to defend your opinions. I say discussion because, believe it or not, I don't think this is just a crazy shouting match: participants learn new things, and some even change their minds. This is what I don't like about simply calling it all about power: it implies that discussion is useless. The same thing with stepping outside the immediate points of contention and complaining about how one is being attacked. You don't like having your opinions be called Orwellian? Then need I remind you the proper response is to figure out what basis I have for the charge, and then refute it? Is this interchange all about power? I don't believe so. There is power involved in everything, but I don't have an admin password. Regardless, I don't see how that would affect the discussion either way.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 14, 2013 - 10:48am PT
Huh, see? Average naked people dont make the grade.

Just as a thought, we dont much celebrate average climbing, or other average achievements in life for that matter. How often do people get blasted for posting their successful climb of some 40ft 5.6? Its commonly judgemental on the forums, and that in itself is the unfortunate thing. Once you accept that and move past it, the place is interesting.
I tell you though, that aspect has changed my approach to the place.
Problem with the boob thread, and naked people in general, is the sexual context. Anything else could, on a scale of insult rating, rank higher than most of the pictures posted, and it would be left alone. But naked bodies carry more weight, they imply things like power, control, and objectification that simple commentary like "you,re an idiotic moran who should never post your drivel to this forum again you literary-challenged shrivel-d$ck a£¢hole" just doesnt compete with.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 14, 2013 - 11:04am PT
you boob thread haters are morally superior than most. we get it
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 14, 2013 - 11:05am PT
More likely, after the slideshow guys are showing their personal climbing photos to each other on the smartphone, and a couple worthy boob shots thrown in for good measure.

Meanwhile, the ladies compare husbands in terms of which ones make six figures, do their own laundry, remembered flowers on mothers day, bitched about the mother-in-law visiting, or just sit and drink beer while the games on, or go climb too much instead of watching the kids and cooking dinner.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
May 14, 2013 - 11:23am PT
Have C-Mac segragate the forum into two sections.
one for the guys,and, one for the women.

Wait, make that three.
one shared by both.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 14, 2013 - 11:26am PT
problem solved, no tits here. http://www.srcfc.org/Forums/
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 14, 2013 - 11:26am PT
Told yall cosmicragsman could never be replaced.....

DMT
Karen

Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
May 14, 2013 - 11:37am PT
Ok, if you don't like a thread, are offended just DON"T click on it. I have no interest in many of the threads on ST and just pass them by. Seriously, some of the women out there are just a tad bit too uptight~ chill why don't you!

Karen
Bowser

Social climber
Durango CO
May 14, 2013 - 11:42am PT
If you don not like boobies, don't click on the "Boobie Tread."
mike m

Trad climber
black hills
May 14, 2013 - 11:53am PT
Wow first time in a year or two that I have been able to get ST on my computer at work.
John M

climber
May 14, 2013 - 11:54am PT
Its been pointed out that its not just about boobs.. and its been pointed out that the pics show up on all kinds of threads. Its not contained on just one thread. So not clicking on one thread does not work.

Locker says its controlling him if he can't post those kinds of pictures, but isn't it also controlling others if you post stuff that is offensive to them and it isn't contained in a clearly defined thread. How does one avoid it if it shows up in any thread?

I don't have a problem with the boobs. I have a problem with the lack of respect. Its 13 year old boy time around here at times. I told moosedrool that he and I would have serious problems if he ever said some of the things he said on the forum to my face. He doesn't have the courtesy to apologize. He did pull the post, but then he just went into hiding. But Bruce says he is a nice guy and anyone who disagrees with him is a puritan. Never mind that plenty of others have quit the forum and they are just told to toughen up. So there is a double standard.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 11:56am PT
Calling Jan "full of shit" is off base and, well,....full of sh#t.....

And Russ's sketch is ummmm, weak, for an art major....which he was.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 14, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
one might wonder why the medical procedure that a popular hollywood actress elected to endure as a prophylactic against highly probable cancer warranted an explanation on the OpEd pages of the NYTimes...
...it seems entirely logical and clear headed, remove the source of risk.

The apparent reticence of similar at risk individuals to the procedure speaks to the issues of culturally determined roles and values; and to this thread (if you take a bit of time to think beyond your own libido).

Words get thrown up around here "beautiful," "artistic," "obscene," "prudishness," "offensive," "descent," "desire," "lewd," "exploitative," "control," "tasteful," "tasteless," "objectification," "violence," "stereotypying," "judgemental." And the idea of personal liberty vs. community responsibility and all that...
...how come?

I believe that 8 gals have responded (by my count) and while there is a range of opinions, what seems to happen when they suggest that the posting of "boobs" might be inappropriate in some situations on a climber's forum, their statements are rejected by a majority of guy responses in very strong terms.

This topic isn't the first one to discuss this on STForum, and gals that responded to those in the past have refrained from entering the fray here... even though they have excellent points to make in this "discussion." I assume the negative responses are not worth making the point, that the tendency of the guys to shout down any perceived infringement of their "rights" is not addressable by a reasoned argument from a different point of view.

Anyway, if anyone is sensitive to the cultural and social issues, and framing those issues from an etic approach, it's Jan. The rest of us are swimming in the emic here... and are, apparently, unaware of it.

hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 14, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
Lets go back to the control argument, and forget about gender. Its been clearly pointed out that men have expressed disgust with the boob thread as well as women. In either case the argument seems to be that theyre morally opposed because they find the images degrading and objectifying of women.
And so they wish to censor content. They want to limit it to what they feel is appropriate and relavent content on this public climbing forum.

I dont see anyone object in the form of censorship when a thread turns to the topic of abortion, which it seems evokes far stronger moral responses on both sides. Is it because that topic lacks imagery?

No, jan and others are right- its all about control and who gets to determine whats appropriate material here.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 14, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
I like Karen.
John M

climber
May 14, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
Right on Ed. Great post!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 14, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
"And so they wish to censor content."

My guess is that CMac & co enjoy breasts as much as most of us do, and that the level of 'tolerance' they have for such imagery posted on ST has nothing to do with any kind of moral messaging, and everything to do with the interests of seeing ST grow and succeed.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Personally I am wondering how folks on Supertopo are actually harmed by the boob threads. Seems safer just to not click on threads that have unappealing words in the subject line.

Clicking on a thread is a voluntary action. It is my opinion that we as individuals are responsible for our own actions.

Sooo... If I am adverse to attending one of those seasonal haunted houses that pop up in October every year but voluntarily choose to enter and am offended or scared by what I see, should I complain and petition to have the haunted house shut down?

Probably, it is the P.C. thing to do.


John M

climber
May 14, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
Personally I am wondering how folks on Supertopo are actually harmed by the boob threads. Seems safer just to not click on threads that have unappealing words in the subject line.

I will say it

Again..

The pics show up on more then just the boob thread.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
Agreed but I am speaking to the BOOB threads.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 14, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
It's a community issue...
...from my own point of view it seems difficult to go through the process of posting climbing relevant threads that might be useful to the community if the response to it is going to be small compared to the apparently much more attractive thread featuring boobs...

in the totally unrestrained event that boob-like threads dominate, why bother to post climbing content at all? it's just going to sink off the front page and into obscurity.

at that point, I start wondering if posting on a climbing specific web site like Mountain Project or Summit Post, or Yosemite Climber's Association isn't a preferable venue for my climbing posts than STForum.

We, the community of participants here, make the Forum what it is, for better of for worse. You all certainly have the "right" to post what you think, or not to post at all. Don't believe for a minute that the exhibition of "your right" doesn't turn off others, and eventually might result in people not participating.

When the OP asks for a discussion, and we get a shout-down instead, there is no real mystery to why many people don't participate here anymore.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
I don't get it

Why is it that quite a few women here are the
only ones to voice heir objections to boob threads?

Who cares what they think anyway...
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 14, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
i like karen
+1

simply on account of she has moxie.

personally i don't give a damn one way or another about boob threads.

ain't too many things that will offend me. i do deplore peeps/sites (to some extent) that practice a double standard. that was what my post was in regards to (7:26am).
Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
May 14, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
I was lurking through this thread, but I finally have a comment.



re Kennyt's post:[quote] problem solved, no tits here. http://www.srcfc.org/Forums/[/quote]


All I can say about the SRCFC is: Oh Christ!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Clicking on a thread is a voluntary action. It is my opinion that we as individuals are responsible for our own actions.

I love it when someone makes it clear and brief. (So an idjit like me can digest...)

Conclusion: Count me as one with a changed mind.

Out of respect for the many high quality people/women who visit this forum, I will no longer post to boob threads or post sexually suggestive material.

I reserve the right to lurk.

So sayeth survival.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 14, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#302654

DMT
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 14, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
There IS an ugly overtone of bullying, especially of the women who speak up.

and
So far in a thread asking women what they think, four women have responded and thirty guys. A significant portion of the thirty guys then proceed to tell the women that they are prudes, sexually uptight, jealous, and mean spirited, and defend the idea that they should be able to post what ever where ever, never mind what the site administrators and their advertisers think. I still say the bottom line issue is not art, and not sex, but power.

and

When the OP asks for a discussion, and we get a shout-down instead, there is no real mystery to why many people don't participate here anymore.

THAT is what upsets me whenever the "boob issues" come up. Anyone who says "these images don't belong here"(on the site in general or in a particular thread) are called prudes, told to "not click" on threads that contain the images(ignoring completely that people are talking about threads NOT related to the topic of "boobs") and other tactics meant to intimidate and/or bully.

Yes, it certainly does show how ugly some of those here on Suertopo actually are.


I received an email from Lolli regarding a post I made early in this thread. She gave permission to quote it, and so I provide the text here:



"Reilly's statement is pure fantasy. We NEVER had lockerrooms together with the boys. What an utterly silly idea.

All the stupid excuses for the right to be a sexist.... It seems to me as many have been blunted by the sheer amount of sexist posts.. I wonder how that constant appraisal of female member's bodies might feel if one has lost a breast due to cancer, for instance?
Some posts are inexcusable, like to have the gall to comment upon a another member's body, for instance..Not my achievements, not who I am, but how I look like. Go to hell, is my answer. It's plain by a multitude of posts that achievements by women come second to their looks in the view of many men on the Taco.

As I see it, the management of the site doesn't have any problem with a sexist agenda from a very loud group. They allow a lot of harassment, lies and false judgements towards women, but they banned the woman who protested against women being seen as an objects. Not the men who treat women both in general and as fellow members as objects they have a right to comment upon. There has been sexually insinuating comments regarding underage daughters of several members, including my own daughter, and nothing happens to the members who makes them. They have by their way to manage the site shown that female members are considered as second rate members. It's hard to see any other reason but that the management of Supertopo agrees with, or have themselves, a sexist view upon women.

There's a difference in culture among northern Europe and America, and it's often grossly misunderstood. As is the theories that I wouldn't mind the boobs thread, because we see bare breasts on the beaches etc. Which, by the way, isn't the truth. It's unfashionable since way back, but no big deal. If you were here 30 years ago, yes. Now? Ha!
We don't mind nudity or sex, but strongly dislike porn. There's a strong sense of porn being equal with criminality, trafficking and prostitution. It's dirty. Not because of the sex, but because it carries along so much other bad things. I mean, one can see sex on the regular television, but it's not porn, it's usually either in a film or in a documentary. Sex isn't seen as bad. There's an easily seen difference which image is mere nudity and which is exploitive of women. And what's posted on the Taco, is exploitive images, not just nude people.

It's strange how a thing like this reveals a lot about some people. I guess I known all along, but didn't really take notice. It's such an oldfashioned view to take, it's amazing how they haven't kept in touch with how things have changed. Sexists are like the racists of bygone days. They're fighting for their right to remain oppressive and chauvinist. Nowadays nobody questions a professional because of the skin colour. But sexists, they're still back in that phase, in a way of thinking of bygone days, when it comes to women.

Yes, I left because of a personal reason, the boob thread and the general attitude towards women on this site. I don't belong here. I feel no need to be subjected to an oldfashioned and loud group of losers who scream loudly if they may not flag their sexist attitude in any given thread. But I don't fight windmills, I got other things to do instead.

I do miss the decent people though, even if they're awfully quiet sometimes. See you in the autumn!


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 14, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson


the above was my only contribution to the now defunct boob thread.

Apologies to those offended.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 14, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
Well, whatever. Management has to balance freedom of expression with retaining members and maintaining a constructive community. If they see it degrade to the point where quality contributions disappear and it becomes no more than a raunchy pissing match, then censorship will come. See Locker,s penis thread from yesterday. Oh wait, thatwgot censored.

Best to do your part by posting your own quality climbing threads and encourage the threads of others by giving them a bump.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
The unkept chest tufts of DMT have offended me. I'm out.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
thanks for posting that, happiegrrrlil

I have nieces who are interested in climbing and visit this website

I don't know, maybe its just me, but yes it is embarrassing to try to explain to them why naked females and vaginas outlined with tight clothes are even permitted

don't click on it?

doesn't work that way, when they see the word boob in a thread's title my niece's interest in climbing was replaced by curiosity and then anger when she clicks and sees the pictures

its got nothing to do with showing how appreciative men are of women's bodies by the way

there are all kinds of other places on the internet for that

I'm with the women on this one, always a good place to be!
Gal

Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
May 14, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
Nobody has mentioned when you DON'T click on the boobs thread and you get spammed anyway by the likes of OneWhoWalksOnRocks on a totally unrelated thread. I was spammed after trying to make a positive comment about the thread (granted, it may have just been a timing thing and not directed specifically at me). And then when I said I didn't appreciate it... a few posts down SAC posts the most disgusting photo implying I am on my period. Luckily SAC had enough sense to remove it, but I'm sure he knew his damage had been done. I know Jennie saw the awful photo. It felt abusive to me, viscous and hostile. All while I was trying to say something positive. So what say you about that?

... I don't believe in censorship.
... I'm not for banning people.
... I enjoy my male friendships very much, I'm not a "man-hater" (and I don't believe the women here are either)

To me, Daphne so eloquently describes what I believe, and I won't even try to explain it beyond that, I agree wholeheartedly 100% with the lovely Daphne. And I appreciate all my fellow women who are here on the Topo, please don't go away ~ and if you did go away ~ please come back ~ Lolli, crimpergirl ~ those of us that remain would love you to be here too!

And as I think about this ~ I also don't necessarily have a problem with dudes who love the boobs threads/it's just part of the difference between men & women and what the guys find interesting/i just think the guys who are super obsessed with it to a major extent are kind of pervy creepy/but for a bit there it seemed to be all contained in one place where I didn't have to click on the thread. You can't expect me to get all excited about it like you guys-i'm just not biologically wired that way. I would also appreciate not being spammed or told I'm on my period anytime I express an opinion. It makes things feel hostile.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 14, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
"...when they see the word boob in a thread's title"

Yeah, that's really true. I oftentimes find something I'd like to share with someone (or a group) who is unfamiliar with ST, and I am definitely disinclined to do so because that thread title is always on the front page.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
don't click on it?

doesn't work that way, when they see the word boob in a thread's title my niece's interest in climbing was replaced by curiosity and then anger when she clicks and sees the pictures

Well if the kids are on the internet, they will find much worse things than the taco has to offer.
The devices my kids have access to all have filters to prevent access to the less desirable stuff on the internets. Some pretty nifty stuff exists out there to control access to what kids can access. it is not perfect but pretty close.



Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
one after another, the women of SuperTopo keep posting both their own objections and also the reasons for it

isn't that enough of a clue?

wasn't the deletion of the first boob thread a clue to not start another one?

guess not
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
May 14, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
A great post from Gal's semi lucid consciousness. ;o) (not ironic)
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
Dont click on it or I guess offer up some $$$ to Cmac to buy the rights to the forum and make your own rules.
Hey...personally I could care less about seeing boobs on ST. The reality is that what one person finds offensive, another might not. I come here to read the trip reports and sometimes click on the boob threads to see who has their panties in a knot ( pun intended) on any given day. It is quite entertaining sometimes lol

So what do we censor after boobs? Religious talk? Heck that is offensive to some. Slippery slope there Norton. The use of misspelled profanity is off the charts on ST. Ban that Shet and bewbs too. Also make sure your hem line on your shorts is greater than 4". I dont want to be seeing some famous big wallers fruit bowl.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 14, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
"First of all there is no 'we.' There is only the site owner...."

Yep.

The more I think about it, though, maybe an OT tab in this Forum isn't such a bad idea.
KP Ariza

climber
SCC
May 14, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
Beauty two ways, climbing AND boobs... what perfect combo. Had to re-post this one Can't Say, hope you don't mind. BTW, I think I recognize those beauties. The girl and the rocks that is.

Credit: can't say
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
Lol yes you keep saying that.

DMT
Your man boobs are my one exception. Those things are exquisite.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 14, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
I dunno, DMT, I kinda like some of the OT stuff. Sure, such things can be had in many other sites, but it's more interesting to me to see/read/discuss them with others who share my outdoor interests. I'm starting to better understand the argument to separate such topics from material that is more directly relevant to ST's purpose.
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 14, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
+1 gal and dickmcfartin's lasts posts
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
May 14, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
boobs are rad.



mad respect,
bordering on a vitrol obsession.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 14, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
from Lolli

"Reilly's statement is pure fantasy. We NEVER had lockerrooms together with the boys. What an utterly silly idea.

All the stupid excuses for the right to be a sexist.... It seems to me as many have been blunted by the sheer amount of sexist posts.. I wonder how that constant appraisal of female member's bodies might feel if one has lost a breast due to cancer, for instance?
Some posts are inexcusable, like to have the gall to comment upon a another member's body, for instance..Not my achievements, not who I am, but how I look like. Go to hell, is my answer. It's plain by a multitude of posts that achievements by women come second to their looks in the view of many men on the Taco.

As I see it, the management of the site doesn't have any problem with a sexist agenda from a very loud group. They allow a lot of harassment, lies and false judgements towards women, but they banned the woman who protested against women being seen as an objects. Not the men who treat women both in general and as fellow members as objects they have a right to comment upon. There has been sexually insinuating comments regarding underage daughters of several members, including my own daughter, and nothing happens to the members who makes them. They have by their way to manage the site shown that female members are considered as second rate members. It's hard to see any other reason but that the management of Supertopo agrees with, or have themselves, a sexist view upon women.

There's a difference in culture among northern Europe and America, and it's often grossly misunderstood. As is the theories that I wouldn't mind the boobs thread, because we see bare breasts on the beaches etc. Which, by the way, isn't the truth. It's unfashionable since way back, but no big deal. If you were here 30 years ago, yes. Now? Ha!
We don't mind nudity or sex, but strongly dislike porn. There's a strong sense of porn being equal with criminality, trafficking and prostitution. It's dirty. Not because of the sex, but because it carries along so much other bad things. I mean, one can see sex on the regular television, but it's not porn, it's usually either in a film or in a documentary. Sex isn't seen as bad. There's an easily seen difference which image is mere nudity and which is exploitive of women. And what's posted on the Taco, is exploitive images, not just nude people.

It's strange how a thing like this reveals a lot about some people. I guess I known all along, but didn't really take notice. It's such an oldfashioned view to take, it's amazing how they haven't kept in touch with how things have changed. Sexists are like the racists of bygone days. They're fighting for their right to remain oppressive and chauvinist. Nowadays nobody questions a professional because of the skin colour. But sexists, they're still back in that phase, in a way of thinking of bygone days, when it comes to women.

Yes, I left because of a personal reason, the boob thread and the general attitude towards women on this site. I don't belong here. I feel no need to be subjected to an oldfashioned and loud group of losers who scream loudly if they may not flag their sexist attitude in any given thread. But I don't fight windmills, I got other things to do instead.

I do miss the decent people though, even if they're awfully quiet sometimes. See you in the autumn!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 14, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
"What has stopped you from enjoying OT stuff on the taco?"

Not a thing...I enjoy many/most of them, and I don't really object to most of them.

But I do think they distract from (what I think) is the core purpose of ST, and the reason why many 'quality' (whatever quantifies that) contributors stick around.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 14, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
^good post. IMO, boobs make the St more interesting than other climbing sites. I didn't see much that really pushed levels of decency, but that is different for everyone.
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 14, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
Happie and Norton, appreciation for passing on Lolli's communication...

It's nice coming back this afternoon and beholding a more positive trend on this thread.

Supertopo ladies, sometimes companions in dispair, thankfully don't run in fright from growling terriers...
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 14, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
Based upon a sober perusal of the replies on this thread, one option for CMac would be to formalize the different demographics and thus have two distinct sections on the Supertopo forum:

a.) one section for threads/posts that contain boobs images (including climbing content with boob images interspersed)
b.) a separate section for boob-less threads/posts.

Clean.
Simple.
Elegant.

Would that work?
Tan Slacks

climber
Joshua Tree
May 14, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
In both previous "boob" threads I added my 2 cents

Everyone else was giving their glorious opinions/pictures about boobs this and boobs that, so when I first posted about how my daughter was teaching me about certain types objectification and how it effects her, I was harassed in private emails. I was called a prude, an as#@&%e and more .... just for questioning the purpose and effect of the posted pictures.

Then in the second "boob" thread. I thought, I'll ignore it and move on so I don't get the hate mail again, but my daughter caught the second thread and again the discussion of how society discriminates. This time I tried the "why should climbers be any different?" Society is well reflected right here on ST. And then IHT sort of invited a response, so I responded again about how we can learn from this thread and perhaps change. I was trying to speak to fathers mostly, but I got the emails again. I had no idea that just questioning the idea of boob threads made me so disliked. Except I ran into one female ST'er who thanked me in person.

So post all the boobs you want, create a separate boob button.. what ever.. I was just trying to say that perhaps all those pictures stolen from the internet do not further our evolvement and possibly effect more than you first think.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 14, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
I was harassed in private emails. I was called a prude, an as#@&%e and more .... just for questioning the purpose and effect of the posted pictures.

Who is harassing you in emails?

DMT
Tan Slacks

climber
Joshua Tree
May 14, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
I received 3 emails after the first post and 2 emails after the second. In only one of the emails did the person identity himself. None of the emails threatened me, mostly they questioned my masculinity. I am not sure how people got my email address, I have not responded to them and I am not interested in posting them here or anywhere for any personal reactions.

So I cannot tell you who they were from, perhaps one person with several aliases.

Thanks for asking though. Over the years on ST I have learned that the internet has it's own unique set of rules. ST has taught me never to take responses to any of my posts personally. I enjoy that aspect of internet forums.
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
May 14, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
Yep, tan slacks, obviously boob threads and photos are not about boobs, they're about bullying and sexism. Which is the point being made here on this thread. thanks for your input and your daughter's.

Boob posters have thousands of websites on which to post, but they won't find anyone there to attack or harass. They want to continue their style here where they enjoy the bullying, the put downs and name calling, always provocative to the forum community with sexism as the overtone. It's this negativity that has no place here. We all know each other. We all are friends or friends of friends, men and women alike.

I'm sorry that the admins fail to accept their role here. I can understand the reluctance but I'm still sorry to see them ignore a trend. I agree with Ed. As the negativity takes up the front page the climbing content is lost and even the community aspect is lost. Perhaps permanently.
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 14, 2013 - 05:52pm PT
boob boob boob boob boob. boob, boob boob boob boob. boob boob boob boob boob (boob boob), boob boob. BOOB!
boob boob boob boob boob boob boob. boob boob boob boob boob boob?
boob - boob boob boob
boob boob boob boob boob boob boob :(

skimming over this thread, this is basically what it looks like.
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
May 14, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
Lolli was a quality poster, and this site is a little bit poorer for her absence.

I've only read part of this thread, but I've really appreciated hearing from the women who've posted on the subject. If you want to hear more from these stalwarts who brave the ST sausagefest, and I think on average they post more thoughtfully than many here, you might want to pay attention to what makes them uncomfortable and behave accordingly. It's called empathy, and it's a damned shame it's such an unfashionable emotion.

Bottom line: if you don't see enough pictures of boobs without having them spattered across Supertopo, you really suck at the internet.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
May 14, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
None of this crap would be tolerated if the Appie's were still in charge.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 14, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
Lucky Pink wrote:
Yep, tan slacks, obviously boob threads and photos are not about boobs, they're about bullying and sexism. Which is the point being made here on this thread. thanks for your input and your daughter's.

Boob posters have thousands of websites on which to post, but they won't find anyone there to attack or harass. They want to continue their style here where they enjoy the bullying, the put downs and name calling, always provocative to the forum community with sexism as the overtone. It's this negativity that has no place here. We all know each other. We all are friends or friends of friends, men and women alike.

I'm sorry that the admins fail to accept their role here. I can understand the reluctance but I'm still sorry to see them ignore a trend. I agree with Ed. As the negativity takes up the front page the climbing content is lost and even the community aspect is lost. Perhaps permanently.


I write this with the proviso that I'm not an expert on the boob threads (as some here are) primarily attributable to my having spent less time on Supertopo recently due to other commitments. However, the primary recent-era boob thread was started by Anastasia, a woman and a mother. How exactly do you extrapolate that Anastasia's posting of boobs, and her encouraging others to do so, is an act of bullying and sexism, harassing, name calling, and all the other negativity that is being (falsely, in my opinion) imputed to it?
I thought Anastasia's thread, images, and postings were positive, upbeat, and supportive of women. And I still think that.
Whom specifically is your beef directed at ... is it selective? Or is it meant for everyone?
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
May 14, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
LG: you could start by reading this thread from the beginning. It will answer your question a thousand times over. It's been addressed. No sense belaboring it.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 14, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
Lady Pink,
I've followed the thread from the beginning and my questions are not answered therein.

Furthermore, my questions are directed to you specifically, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion based on what you specifically wrote (this isn't an 'attack').


Please do me the courtesy of replying.
And please include how you perceive Anastasia.



PS:I've read on this thread much of what to me appears to be familiar prepackaged ideology, and many failed efforts to try and force the boob thread to fit the latter: the proverbial Procrustean bed. It's handy, convenient, and may serve an emotional, polemical, political and/or religious purpose, but IMHO is wholly inadequate insofar as defining the actuality of the boob thread. Your explanation of the boob thread appears to also share these attributes. That's why I'm asking for clarification.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 14, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
John Wayne " Lord help us if they ever get the vote!"
























































JUST KIDDING! LOL ;-)
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 14, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
Jan, the reason i called you full of sh#t was because you argued that a womans chest photo was the same as a mans crotch shot. that being said our society is way too uptight about nudity. not saying that everyone should run arround in their birthday suit but I do firmly believe that there is nothing wrong with the human body and nothing to be shamefull of or offended by. crotch shots are a different story. that is where the crap and the piss comes from so haveing the decency to not stick that in each others faces without invitataion is the right thing to do. Heck, most of the critters have tails to cover that stuff up..

I am no fan of pornography. It is low class and usually makes me think that the person involved made some very poor decisions with their life.

Fine art photography on the other hand is fantastic.

I seriously doubt that objectifying women or men has anything to do with sexual assult regardless of what the so called experts say. (Experts had to do a multi million dollar study to figuer out that dogs get jealous)
The simple fact is that men are hard wired to breed and fight. The men with a higher as#@&%e factor do it without permission and outside of the boundrys that society has set. Women who are not sexy or beatifull in a traditional objectifyed way get sexualy assulted as do muslim women who are covered in clothing from head to toe. Weaker men get sexualy assulted by these freaks. heck they would nail a snake if they could hold it down long enough.
slabbo

Trad climber
fort garland, colo
May 14, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
Trundlebum- will PLEASE post up the story of deb climbing shirtless on the Apron.. maybe '82 / What a classic
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 14, 2013 - 07:38pm PT

Please do me the courtesy of replying.
they're already bored with this and off to search the garage for their husbands porno stash
Daphne

Trad climber
Black Rock City
May 14, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
Thanks, survival. I appreciate your integration of the feedback.

I am so glad I am in the company of the women climbers who post here. Whether or not I agree with them, in general, I find their expression of their opinions to be gracious and their posts are meaningful and often profound.

I am not upset and not angry with the boob thread and similar content here. This discussion is a microcosm of our society. I've learned to live by this idea: earth is a school and I am here to learn, not to change the school. If enough people are open to learning, often the school will change itself. It is highly unlikely that a man who is angry about limiting his sharing of and exposure to boobs on supertopo will have enough consciousness to understand what we are sharing about our experience.


Off White refers to empathy. But that requires a relationship to feelings and many men don't live with a lot of openness to feelings, so calling for empathy lands on deaf ears. I think that is why Love Gasoline doesn't get it. He's a guy and wants a rational explanation. Our feelings don't really matter to him.

But I am heartened by the men like Off White and Tan Slacks and Norton and survival and many others here who are open. I will probably monitor this thread due to the highly addictive nature of posting on supertopo, but I won't comment again. I have got so much work to do.

Love and Peace to all.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 14, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
Daphne... hey!

That's all I wanted to say.

:-)

DMT
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 14, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
so it all boils down to this. a reflection of what? some dates come to mind. 1963. 1967. 1973. 2013. and everything in between. i'll spare ya the details. we wanted it, we got it. do what feels good. free love, drugs > unwed mother > no male roll model > gangs control the intercity drug trade. supply meets demand, but we got blood on our hands. just ask anyone of the headless corpses south of the rio grand. live on-line sex at a push of the button. 350K + internet porn sites competing against one another for the largest active US demographic (10-16 y.o.) our children. free love > a generation lost 50M+ largely for convenience sake. perhaps a fetus with the cure for cancer, aids, heart disease, yada, yada, yada, instead, wound up deposited with the morning trash! greed/corruption. the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. no worries, cuz the rate things are going, a dollar won't be worth a plug nickle before long, equality at last. its the repugs fault, no its the democraps fault. no, its everyone's fault. wait, the devil made us do it, nope, it's the loony x'tians. 4 dead in ohio (everyone in between) to 28 dead in connecticut, what school will be the next in line? what once was right, is now wrong. evidently depends on which way the wind blows. we can predict the weather, yet fail to discern the signs of the times. clueless in good ol' USofA. the good ship Amurica is sinking fast, folks.

SO, might as well enjoy looking at each others boobies while ya can, eh?

btw, lets get involved in yet another war, that will bring us all together, but wait, whens the last time we won one? defeated again & again, i wonder why?

edit: Our generation, we have so much to be proud of!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 14, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
I wonder when the victorias secret catalogue is coming in the mail? they're such bullies! and I want to be bullied.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 14, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
But I am heartened by the men like Off White and Tan Slacks and Norton and survival and many others here who are open.

^^^^ I bet those dudes have a freakydeaky porn stash.
Credit: Snowmassguy
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
May 14, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
Time for a musical interlude, boys!

Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 15, 2013 - 01:04am PT
^^^^ I bet those dudes have a freakydeaky porn stash.
i do....it's called the internet

EDIT: we all do....it's called the internet
MisterE

Social climber
May 15, 2013 - 01:11am PT
Lolli was a quality poster, and this site is a little bit poorer for her absence.

I've only read part of this thread, but I've really appreciated hearing from the women who've posted on the subject. If you want to hear more from these stalwarts who brave the ST sausagefest, and I think on average they post more thoughtfully than many here, you might want to pay attention to what makes them uncomfortable and behave accordingly. It's called empathy, and it's a damned shame it's such an unfashionable emotion.

Bottom line: if you don't see enough pictures of boobs without having them spattered across Supertopo, you really suck at the internet.

I support this statement and stand by it like it was my own.

LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
May 15, 2013 - 01:44am PT
@lovegasoline... Perhaps you did not see the whole of the original boob thread, the "underground" boob thread, Moosedrool's "I'm sorry" thread, and all the other threads that contained lewd photos of women with a leering, obsessive quality to them. Those posts have become innumerable on the forum in a large number of threads posted by the same small number of forum posters. Anastasia has nothing to do with the direction that her thread went. Her initial post was a playful attempt to change the course of the front page threads away from the abusive communication style and an obsession with guns and violence that had become so repeatedly in use. She posted a picture of an infant with a WWII helmet, a black eye, an engaged smile. The suggestion was the infant was and enthralled and vigorous nurser. She did not post a lewd or eroticized photograph of a woman. btw Anastasia is a friend of mine as well.

You have probably then missed the posts by Jennie, Jan , Gal, Leggs, Michelle, Happie and several other females (sorry RAM full)that describe so well the misogyny, and sexism that is rampant in those photographs. Daphne's post is on this thread and is well worth your read. You might have missed it. Did you read Tan Slacks posts? Many many men have posted here with the same observation of the eroticized abusiveness in the communication style of these posters.

My view is similar to all the above. Misogyny and sexism is a social malignancy. Misogyny is practiced by both women and men, the purpose of which is to devalue women in many ways simply because they are women. Abusiveness in communication or bullying is a style that uses belligerence, belittling, blame, criticism, character attacks, humiliation, et al to dominate a conversation or interchange. The goal is to diminish and degrade the other. It is often characterized by impulsiveness and an underlying hostility. It can be expressed both aggressively and passively. The posts on ST that are of naked women often eroticize that abusiveness, hence the calling of names for those who express a dislike of that style ie" pussy, prude, etc and calling men who express a dislike unmasculine.
Misogyny at the core gives males a privilege of eroticism. It is not a two way street. To play, a woman must become sexually and intellectually subservient, to know her place, so to speak. And that's what these lewd photos are about. Control and degradation. None of it is about breasts or beauty.

I hope this clears things up for you. I feel that I may be describing racism to a Klan member, quite frankly. Or Judaism to a Nazi. I must say I have no idea what you were trying to communicate in your postscript up thread. The sentiment you stated seemed to apply to those with opinion on both sides of the issue. Couldn't make it out. Anyway best of luck and goodwill on your personal journey.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
May 15, 2013 - 02:06am PT
Yep, tan slacks, obviously boob threads and photos are not about boobs, they're about bullying and sexism

Nope, Lucky Pink, it isn't "obvious" to people with a healthy attitude and appreciation towards women and their bodies.

Is it not possible to just enjoy the view, so to speak?


Why do all those half naked women look so pleased with themselves and being photographed if they're being bullied and treated with sexism?


Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 15, 2013 - 02:24am PT
Because they're paid to pose and most of them are too young to know better?

Because they've been told it's a necessary thing to do to build a modeling portfolio?

Because they have no sense of themselves yet aside from the power they perceive they get from sexual attractiveness?

I'm pretty sure I recall several girls taking nude photos of themselves for their boyfriends only to find it posted on social media and being surprised that some guy would do that. I think one or two have killed themselves afterwards as well. Clearly they weren't thinking of the future and didn't enjoy it so much.
LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
May 15, 2013 - 02:33am PT
I dunno warbler.. same reason those slaves in the south were so happy , singing all the time. guess ya gotta have a good healthy attitude towards ownership.

on another note: how are ya! you could do a song about this thread, I'm sure it would be hilariously good!
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 15, 2013 - 02:44am PT
Superb delineation, Lucky Pink...Jan !

I'm so in awe of the ladies locking arms and posting frankly no matter how much criticism or insult sustained. And well-disposed empathy from a good share of men.

...momentous thread !
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 08:42am PT
This thread is getting seriously serious, seriously.
hossjulia

climber
May 15, 2013 - 08:44am PT
I for one am glad moosedrool is gone. he was a perv and creepy. It got to where i would groan and ignore anything he posted, and the stupid sh#t he put up day in and day out right before he left was more creepy weirdness.

As has been pointed out already, crotches are gross, that's where the gross stuff come from. Chests are good, especially strong, well muscled chests, with or without boobs. I personally would like to see more without boobs.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 15, 2013 - 08:48am PT
As has been pointed out already, crotches are gross, that's where the gross stuff come from.


Yeah, keep your gross little kids outta my crag!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2013 - 09:38am PT
Chests are good, especially strong, well muscled chests, with or without boobs. I personally would like to see more without boobs.


Wait a sec. Boobs are bad? Chests are good? What are you saying again?
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 09:51am PT
^^^^ more of the tufty and lush DMT man breasts



Great...now some perv is going to start the highly controversial "crotch" thread.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 15, 2013 - 10:00am PT
I think all parts of the body are good. I don't have problems with either sexual or elimination organs. They're all necessary for life. The body parts themselves are not the problem, It's some peoples' attitude toward them and by extension toward women in general that is disturbing.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 10:19am PT
You have probably then missed the posts by Jennie, Jan , Gal, Leggs, Michelle, Happie and several other females (sorry RAM full)that describe so well the misogyny, and sexism that is rampant in those photographs. Daphne's post is on this thread and is well worth your read. You might have missed it. Did you read Tan Slacks posts? Many many men have posted here with the same observation of the eroticized abusiveness in the communication style of these posters.

My view is similar to all the above. Misogyny and sexism is a social malignancy. Misogyny is practiced by both women and men, the purpose of which is to devalue women in many ways simply because they are women. Abusiveness in communication or bullying is a style that uses belligerence, belittling, blame, criticism, character attacks, humiliation, et al to dominate a conversation or interchange. The goal is to diminish and degrade the other. It is often characterized by impulsiveness and an underlying hostility. It can be expressed both aggressively and passively. The posts on ST that are of naked women often eroticize that abusiveness, hence the calling of names for those who express a dislike of that style ie" pussy, prude, etc and calling men who express a dislike unmasculine.
Misogyny at the core gives males a privilege of eroticism. It is not a two way street. To play, a woman must become sexually and intellectually subservient, to know her place, so to speak. And that's what these lewd photos are about. Control and degradation. None of it is about breasts or beauty.


The body parts themselves are not the problem, It's some peoples' attitude toward them and by extension toward women in general that is disturbing.

So, posting up boobies makes the poster a mysogynist, a hater of women, wanting 'control and degredation'?

Pretty darn broad brush stroke.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 10:19am PT
I can't believe your so worried about a few boobs and letting the really important threads slip by.
Obama played 100 rounds of golf
Angelina Jolie's decision
Sacrameto Police Seize Child From Parents (OT)
Where to live in California - With a Garage?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 10:24am PT
so the boob thread is gone and now the most popular thread is a thread about the boob thread being gone..
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 10:26am PT
Yes Patrick, when pictures appear to be of 14 yr. old girls
Bullshit there were no 14 yr olds
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 10:27am PT
...and what does the poster being a teacher have to do with anything?
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 10:33am PT
maybe it's problematic.

//Misogyny - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster ...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/misogynyDefinition of MISOGYNY: a hatred of women — miso·gy·nic \ ˌ mi-sə-ˈ ji-nik, - ˈ gī-\ adjective — mi·sog·y·nist \mə-ˈ sä-jə-nist\ noun or adjective
//

...sounds like more than a problem.

Here is another problem:


http://www.rockandice.com/photo-galleries/women-of-rock-and-ice

This 1 of 3 galleries.

You can't tell me there is isn't an element of sexuality in these photos, so are they automatically exploitive and mysogynistic?

patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 10:37am PT
I taught for a while before hitting the road, but I didn't teach in CA. Out of curiousity, what is the oath? I am intrigued.
TheTye

Trad climber
Sacramento CA
May 15, 2013 - 10:41am PT
You can not predict when someone is going to decide that they are offended.

The kind of people who will click on something that does not affect their lives and then claim that it offends them can not be rationalized with. They want everyone to believe what they believe. Just move on and let them pick on somebody else.

Also, If you are looking to find a happy medium with women(that take issue) and white knights that are arguing objectivity it will be the same scenario. They will decide when the line between reverence and exploitation has been crossed... and the line can move quite a bit depending on their mood.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
May 15, 2013 - 10:46am PT
This thread is so full of anger directed toward men who like boobs.

Big, beautiful boobs, more than a mouthful, or small boobs with perky nipples....

Is there such thing as mistersogomy?





Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 10:53am PT
So my take away from many of the comments against the bewb thread are as follows:

If you find any joy while looking at bewbs you basically hate women, might be a racist/support slavery, support misogyny, support the oppression of women, are a pervert, believe women are inferior to men, prefer women to be subservient, prefer to control and degrade women, have disturbing attitudes toward body parts, probably prefer kiddie porn , are a bully, , are obsessed with porn, prefer women to be exploited....

What did I miss?
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 15, 2013 - 10:57am PT
so the boob thread is gone and now the most popular thread is a thread about the boob thread being gone..
i was already thinking this yesterday...it's never gonna end...
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 11:01am PT
It is somewhat entertaining to see folks get so upset over pictures of bewbs. So interesting how the detractors associate affinity for breasts to some of the most horrific elements that human society has experienced.

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 11:02am PT
What did I miss?

that jennie,sullly and luckypink are pissed off about something that has nothing to do with boobs. maybe cuz Romney lost.there's already a thread for that
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 11:06am PT
Someone needs to start a thread where ST'ers post up actual pics of their boobs, male or female. I know my man boobs are pretty impressive(in my mind) but still a bit pale since we have had quite the cold snowy spring in CO.

Here is the best I can do for now:

(.)(.)

If I dont mind looking at man boobs too does this mean I hate men too or just the opposite?
Timid TopRope

Social climber
'used to be Paradise, CA
May 15, 2013 - 11:09am PT
Don't want to keep flogging this dead horse but you either get it or you don't get it. Many women climb and either participate or lurk on ST and don't dig the chauvinistic boob threads. I only see possibly one male that may have changed their opinion on the matter.

Sure, breasts are beautiful and all but posting up titty pics IS chauvinistic. Again: you either get it or you don't get it.
WBraun

climber
May 15, 2013 - 11:13am PT
you either get it or you don't get it.


These morons here don't get anything.

They just keep babbling and drooling the same moronic mundane sentences over and over.

They're too stupid to even think at all.

No wonder this place is so stupid .......
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 11:16am PT
Get what? Breasts are awesome or breasts are the bane of society that only lead to a path of women hate and racism? Im so confused.
The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
May 15, 2013 - 11:17am PT
Werner,

I'm shocked you would talk about these victimized women like that
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 11:17am PT
werner don't like boobs :(
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 11:19am PT
To be clear, I don't think pigeonholing the bewb detractors as angry prudes is going to anything but purpetuate the negativity of the situation.

Conversely, pigeonholing bewb posters as woman-haters I don't think is accurte either.

The reality is somewhere in the middle, and is reflected in society, even in climbing world. That is why I linked to the Rock and Ice photo spreads of women climbing.

It has always amused me that bikinis and sports bras are ok, perhaps good even, maybe even empowering, but bare most definately is not.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 15, 2013 - 11:22am PT
You know, reading through all of this, it strikes me just how quick y'all are to judge someone as creepy and perverted. Goes along with the judgemental crap that goes on in all the other threads as well i suppose. And it makes me wonder how i'm classified. But then i really dont care.

Fact is, knowing how you judge others, I have a pretty good idea what you think of me here, having participated in the boob thread. And having a fair idea how you'd judge quite a few of my past life experiences, it makes me think twice about sharing anything, even climbing topics, because somebody smewhere here is going to take issue with it.

Does homoclimbtastic have a forum? Maybe i should sign up there where, theoretically, they'd be less judgemental...
excepting they probably dont have a boob thread either.

Or should i just run off in a huff like i did once before because some of you may not like me? Or maybe because some of you post things i find offensive? Am i that insecure? Is this forum really so overrun by stupidity, judgement, and immorallity that i should run away in disgust?

No, i think not.

Better to stay and enjoy the good stuff, contribute what i can, and ignore the haters. You want empathy, but you're not so good at reciprocating. Maybe the people who've left have done so rightly...
This ain't Stepford. It's better. These are real people, with all their successes and failures, and a common appreciation of the rock.

Leaving in disgust is a great way to turn it over to the ones you hate. It's like moving out of a neighborhood because someone tagged your mailbox. Good for you. I'd rather see you stay and post up some quality content. Hell, go ahead and post your disapproval of some posts and threads... thats part of how a self-regulating community works.

But call someone a perve? Throw up your hands and run away in shame? Huh... guess we,re not that different after all.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 11:25am PT
In my pseudo suburban world, I think my wife is the only recreational marathon runner / aspiring tri-athlete that does not have "enhanced" breasts. These women gladly display said breasts all summer long. I have to resist the temptation to be lured into the underworld of HATE.

EDIT: I love and respect women, I love boobs ( but am actually a leg man) and now need to spend my morning doing something more productive. Peace out and stay positive!
Karen

Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
May 15, 2013 - 11:30am PT
Some of these women are hypocrites. Quite often they post pics of themselves climbing in rather skimpy tight clothing, very revealing. Hell if you got it flaunt it, I am not here to judge rather just pointing out what I've seen here on ST.
Phantom X

Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
May 15, 2013 - 11:35am PT
I can offer a compromise. Surrender the Blonds and you can keep the Physics Professor.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 15, 2013 - 11:42am PT
The obtuseness of some posters in this thread is so unbelievable I have to assume they know very well what they are doing. Obfuscating.

HOW MANY TIMES CAN SOME PEOPLE SEE WORDS LIKE "PEOPLE BEING BULLIED" AND COMPREHEND THAT TO MEAN "POSTING A BOOB IMAGE?"

The ISSUE is NOT about a person posting an image. It is about the vile reaction from a small selection of Supertopo people when asked to "tone it down."

Those few could have chosen to simply ignore those requests. To "not click" so to speak. But they can't fathom doing THAT! No! They have got to continue the assinine "I am not a woman hater because I like boobs!" mantra. Earth the Idiot:

Nobody has said "breasts are bad." N.O.B.O.D.Y.

Frankly, it shocked me a little bit to see someone upthread say that genetalia was "gross, because that's where..."






Karen

Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
May 15, 2013 - 11:44am PT
Now here is objectifying .... Professional bike racer Peter Sagan demonstrating his lack of maturity....



Credit: Karen
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Nobody has said "breasts are bad." N.O.B.O.D.Y.


but posting breasts euqals 'control and degradation'.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 15, 2013 - 11:47am PT
why do they have the gals up there to kiss the winner, anyway?

and where are the photos of the women bike tour podium? and are there guys there to kiss them on the cheek?

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 15, 2013 - 11:48am PT
Patrick....you're displaying obtuseness. Really.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 11:51am PT
obfuscating with obtusivity? ... 'control and degredation' are not my words, I am asking for clarification and looking for a middle ground. I fail to see how that is obtuse. Really.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 15, 2013 - 11:52am PT
Nobody has said "breasts are bad." N.O.B.O.D.Y.

Well, I think it's fine that we can decide as a community to be more sensitive to each other and avoid things like boob threads.

It would also be fine to do away with name calling and reading into each other too much.

Nobody said breasts were bad, true, but they said plenty about how they are shown as being bad.

Nobody said women are "less than I" or "should be objects or slaves" either.

I never got the impression that drool was creepy or a perv. Personalities are different. Speaking and writing and expressing oneself are different too. Senses of humor are different.

On the other hand, Supertopo being a little more Wild West than other sanitized sites is part of what makes it great isn't it?
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 11:55am PT
Too bad your teaching career was short lived.


Not for me, if I wanted to get crapped on on a daily basis by entitled brats and anti-union republicans I'd go work in a sewer.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 15, 2013 - 11:57am PT
Once more...(sigh)

It's NOT about the posting of (many of)the images, but the hostile response when asked to tone it down.


Some of the images were degrading, some were softcore porn, some were art images. Some here act like each and every one of those images was an artistic image when-quite clearly - the majority were not.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
MooseDrool is European and as such is a wee different. Nothing bad there- and was entertainment here. He in my opinion has a good heart and a good eye for sarcasm.. I dont know why so many take so much so seriously in regards to this forum.

We all have a cursor and a mouse.


Weve all posted or stated dumb stuff here at times.

We are all human as well.


Hell ive been targeted here as well and for what ive no idea. Ive asked but an answer has not been brought forth.
phylp

Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
May 15, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
I haven’t weighed in with my 2 cents on this thread yet because it’s almost certainly an exercise in futility. But, in what is apparently a dried up, prudish, no-sense of humor sort of solidarity with my sisters, who I’ve had the privilege of meeting here, and love, I guess I’ll make one attempt.

I’m cross-posting this from Locker’s thread about Moosedrool:

I just personally don't find the whole SNL, leering "We're just a couple of wild and crazy guys" mentality very entertaining. Some people do, and, well, OK if that works for them.

This forum serves a couple of functions: information, community/connection, and entertainment, loosely but not exclusively around climbing and climbers. I just find it most interesting when there's a balance among the different functions and individual styles.

Do you remember those SNL skits? The two guys were trying to score with “the foxes” so they could fondle “their big American breasts”. And the women they were trying to score with were creeped out by them and got away from them as fast as they could? And we all laughed at those skits, over and over, because the mentality of the guys was so CLUELESS.

One more time: It’s not the breasts per se. We have them. We see them all the time. Yeah, bodies are beautiful, all bodies, male and female and in between, young and old. We totally get what sensitive art connoisseurs you are.

What I and many other people on the Forum, male and female, don’t get is the clueless mentality of you (whoever you are) not comprehending that your need to appreciate these specific images on a climber’s forum, over and over, and to have those images inserted in threads where the context is non-existent is too much. Like on the Supertopo Santa thread.

It’s just tedious and boring.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
ron. I've taken moose climbing up in the canyon multiple times and he's just a good guy that was playing around.

sully, your obviously a teacher do you teach in the public school system?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 15, 2013 - 12:05pm PT
So, posting up boobies makes the poster a mysogynist, a hater of women, wanting 'control and degredation'?

no

but the women around here clearly don't like it

right there, simple enough, is all I need to know to side with them on this

and for that reason alone and no other reason, so should everyone

plenty of other internet web sites to hang out at if ya wanna click on boob pics





Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 15, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
why do they have the gals up there to kiss the winner, anyway?

and where are the photos of the women bike tour podium? and are there guys there to kiss them on the cheek?
i thought that too. the male winner on top of the podium with the two pretty girls. although i may be so inclined to whore myself out to the winning female standing on the podium and be the stand in dude to kiss her...

MooseDrool is European and as such is a wee different.
i wish i could use that excuse...

EDIT: go ahead ladies, use me as the piece of meat that i am. he he he...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
Norton, a lot of people don't agree with the political threads should those end as well?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 15, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
kenny

I get your point

guess I just believe there is a big difference between female body parts and politics
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
but the women around here clearly don't like it


do you think they like your monkey balls?
Karen

Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
May 15, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
I agree Ed, there ought to be a couple of hot guys kissing winning female cyclists!

The podium women are not only a European tradition but it is alive and well here in the Tour of California.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
there ought to be a couple of hot guys kissing winning female cyclists!

where do I sign up?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 15, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
do you think they like your monkey balls?


well Patrick, why don't you start a new thread and find out?
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
ha! I sir, am not a hater of monkey balls. I do appreciate the irony of supporting the not-for-bewb-posting women while your avatar is proud monkey nutz. good stuff.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
Dude, Norton likes monkey balls. So what! To each his own. I do find his monkey balls offensive but I am not going to call him a perv, racist monkey hater that clearly has zero respect for monkeys.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 15, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
thank you snow!

haters gottat hate!
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
Sorry man. This thread is like a bad car wreck on the Interstate. It is very difficult to not slow down and post/troll.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
May 15, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
And now for another bit of dried up humorless prudery. Norton's icon is not a monkey, it's a Bonobo, a type of chimpanzee.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 15, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
Credit: Snowmassguy
Bonobo boobs.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
insnt Bonobo the lead singer in U2??
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 15, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
Apparently they continued south.. I put the link on that thread.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
May 15, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
this forum would be a lot more polite if we all had guns...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 02:24pm PT
this is a hot topic!
Credit: kennyt

you guy's need to lightem up I mean lighten up.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
could the images on the boob thread really be considered porn by any standard?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
out of all things that don't belong here, that's one of the best
by the way this is the advertisement I'm seeing on S.T. right now.

I wonder what they want us to think here?
I wonder what they want us to think here?
Credit: kennyt
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 15, 2013 - 06:30pm PT
Interesting thing is that the very people who complaine about bullying have bullyed moosedrool off the site.

I have zero use and no respect for porn. I see porn and I think of how that person made very poor choices concerning their health and well being. On the other hand it is hard for me to feel empathy for the folks makeing a big stink about that thred. Much ado about nothing. Many other threads are as bad or worse in different ways. I once heard someone describe Austrailian TV as haveing way more sex and way less violence than American TV. maybe we would have fewer mass shootings if our media ballance shifted away from violence and twords sex?

An interesting study for Jan would be to compare societys that have stigmas about nudity (americans,muslims, etc) with those that are much more open with sexuality. Sweden, france, etc and find out who has more sexual assult.
Climber Joe

Trad climber
May 15, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
I agree with TheTye 100%.
Thought and action. It disturbs me that people want to control the former.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 08:11pm PT
sully, those pics you posted are creepy, and make me feel uncomfortable
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 15, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
^^^good. Then leave.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
^^^you first
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 15, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
Not likely. You could try to bully me tho. Be kinda funny, actually.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
Not likely. You could try to bully me tho. Be kinda funny, actually

Who's bullying? this is just funny sh#t.

EDIT: were you calling me out like in high school? lmao
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 15, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
In the beginning it was funny and entertaining even if not in the best of tastes. Then people started getting hurt. Now I agree with Coz.

I say keep the boobs on the porn sites, I'd like to think my young niece could read her uncle climbing forum with out seeing a bunch of exploited titties, by lonely old dorks.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 15, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
thanks for that Coz and Granite

I posted earlier about my own niece who is interested in climbing, was cruising through Supertopo and could not help but notice the title of the "boob" thread, clicked on it out of curiosity, got angry (again) about grown men in her words acting like high school boys

for some odd reason she, I guess being female, just does not get it
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 15, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
Uh-oh! looks like we have a few skirmishes brewing...

Can I play peacemaker, NOW, Uncle Moosedrool?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
May 15, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
She'll be angry for life, then.

DMT

probably right

hey, really cool avatar picture, Dingus!

looks like a high school girl you dating now?
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 15, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
And yes in this case I'm giving you a hard time...


Uhm... Oh nevermind.


Haha, quick to edit that one!
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 15, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
Hi Michelle!

DMT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 09:03pm PT
got a "link";-)^^^^^^^^
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
Turn the tables around though and ask yourself how the guys would feel if the women of ST, few as we are, began posting dozens, maybe hundreds of photos of penises. Would the men want to look at them, just ignore the thread, be disgusted, make sick jokes about it, or start threatening women about it in a menacing way?

you guy's should try it.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 15, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
so if i have this right? Coz's neice is an angry teenager/woman so moosedrool has to get the chop.....
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
nope youve got it wrong. Moose deleted his own stuff.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
I must be a bully
splitter

Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
May 15, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
i hesitate to interrupt this conversation in light of the direction this thread is currently going, since it appears that you are very close to reaching a compromise. and kudos for the excellent show of brotherly love, respect and discipline. i'm most certain that it brings warmth to the most frigid of hearts, and soothes the most weary of souls amongst us. so much so, that i forgot what i was going to comment on...

oh yea, cragman and the naket bear he done wasted, via four in the head and one in the ass. it just happens to pop up in the most unlikely of conversations. case in point, this conversation/thread. so i was hoping to put a lid on it. bottom line, the bear had been making a nuisance of itself and had broken into a dozen or more homes in as many days. dean has a family to protect. what if one of them, perhaps his seven year old daughter (at the time) had got out of bed to see what the commotion was about. and had encountered and been mauled by the bear because of unintentionally blocking its escape path on the front porch? ...nuff said. sorrowful ending to a magnificent creature, but ultimately mankind is to blame (for providing the stimulus/food, lax with basic prevention, etc). so cut dean some slack.


btw, if i believed in karma, i suspect at least a few of you will be sharing bedpans in some cloths optional nursing home in the not so distant future. the battle of the sexes evidently didn't end with billy jean king and whatever the d00ds name was on that tennis court, bitd. maybe you will finally come to an agreement in the long awaited, sorely needed and currently put on a back burner old climbers home that harding had envisioned.

edit: thnx ron. correction made. don't wanna mess with a legend. ;)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 15, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
ahem,, i believe that is 4 in the head and one in the azz.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 15, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
Nah Kenny, just another silly manchild easy to tune out. It's kinda cute reading all the silly comments from some of the guys. And frustrating how the women even bother trying to debate it, since the issue seems to fall on deaf ears so to speak. And let's not forget, I offered to flash if Dr F axed his polititard threads.

Hi Ding!

I'm with coz on this one, mostly. Again, if it stayed contained, itd be easy to avoid.


PUUUULLLEEEEERRRRRZZZE do NOT start The Junk of Supertopo or a Show Us Your Junk threads. Please. Pleaseplease nooooooo..
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
Nah Kenny, just another silly manchild easy to tune out.

You nailed it! that sounds just like my wife! thanks all the same.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 15, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
It was Jans idea.
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 15, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
michelle -u called them pullerze.
bwahahahahahahahaha
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
Credit: kennyt
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 15, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
Nooooooo!!!!!!!

Lol!

Edit: I'm tacoing on the phone and typo a lot! I better pack up and leave.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 15, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Credit: TGT
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
Can I play peacemaker, NOW, Uncle Moosedrool?

Nope, I gave Moose a call and he instructed me on how to proceed, so I will be acting as mooses proxy.
LilaBiene

Trad climber
May 15, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
I mistakenly thought this thread might actually lead to a decent conversation.

It's too bad that there isn't a function that enables one to block viewing posts by specific posters; that might actually make sticking around tolerable.

What this thread has devolved into is disheartening.

Participating in a climbing forum should be something that is enjoyable, and not something that leaves you with a sick feeling in the bottom of your stomach.

Congratulate yourselves if you like -- I've reached my limit.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 15, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
we've discussed decency and breasts now were at the "a little fun part."

How can some of you guy's take this sh#t so seriously, where did you think this was going to end up?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 15, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
It's too bad that there isn't a function that enables one to block viewing posts by specific posters; that might actually make sticking around tolerable.

https://bitbucket.org/steveax/supertopo-killfile/wiki/Home

It works. I used it to block fattrad, norton and a couple of dozen other worthless trolls who never ever post to climbing threads and are only here to incite. Bluering is another on that list.

Ironically (not), half my cull list self-culled and got themselves banned. I hope they rot in hell.

When I got a new laptop I realized I no longer needed the filter so much.

Cheers
DMT

seriously it works and you won't see offending posters no mo. You have to run firefox tho.
Larrydick

Boulder climber
the other side...
May 15, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
Pretty nifty DMT!!

Can you use this for any sight?
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 16, 2013 - 01:02am PT
Can you use this for any sight?

Only if you're far-sighted.
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 16, 2013 - 01:35am PT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...

May 15, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
It's too bad that there isn't a function that enables one to block viewing posts by specific posters; that might actually make sticking around tolerable.

https://bitbucket.org/steveax/supertopo-killfile/wiki/Home

It works. I used it to block fattrad, norton and a couple of dozen other worthless trolls who never ever post to climbing threads and are only here to incite. Bluering is another on that list.

Ironically (not), half my cull list self-culled and got themselves banned. I hope they rot in hell.

When I got a new laptop I realized I no longer needed the filter so much.

Cheers
DMT

seriously it works and you won't see offending posters no mo. You have to run firefox tho.

kinda ironic actually. this is a neat little program that DMT suggests but in the example of how to block a user HE is the one being blocked. did u notice that dingus???

photo not found
Missing photo ID#303375
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 16, 2013 - 08:33am PT
Another titillating topic!

I can see both sides.

Going into a thread labelled "bewbs" and feigning shock is a bit much though.

Posting up unmarked illegitatitties in threads perused by the work set sucks sometimes.

Porn doesn't necessarily represent "healthy sexuality" as some equate it either.

But tell that to my wiener. (No, I didn't say "werner", that would be stupid!)

I blush.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 16, 2013 - 09:11am PT
Thread does seem to have prompted a few to rethink their posts.

Of course the signal to noise ratio declined - the points were well made early on. After a while? Continued beatings DO improve morale. I know this for a fact.

Reckon I am just going to keep on keeping on being me. But then again I think I do ok. Never been banned, never had a post chopped :-)

"He just knew... he was gonnna come out of this war without so much as a scratch."

Kildare was here.

DMT

ps. I will restate - I think past bannings were quite effective in returning a signal to the St noise. Some folks are a net drain on everyone else - they're gone now banished beyond the gates. Oh I know they sneak back in.... its the nature of rats. They are hard to keep out unless you kill them.
McCfly

climber
May 16, 2013 - 09:12am PT
Randisi

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
May 16, 2013 - 10:25am PT
Bruce, Leggs sent me a PM saying she calls 'em as she sees 'em.

So I guess you'd better move under a bridge, Mr. Ubertroll.


PS. She did suggest that being a supertroll and being sincere weren't necessarily mutually exclusive.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 10:28am PT
Can you use this for any sight?
we'll have to SEE about that ;)

fueled by more men with nothing better to do except suck each others dicks.


10b4me

Ice climber
Soon 2B Arizona
May 16, 2013 - 10:40am PT
Is Bruce a climber?
Me thinks not.
Seems like a poseur, and troll

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
May 16, 2013 - 10:47am PT
Sheesh.
SuperTopo Playground!




Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 16, 2013 - 10:54am PT
350 posts. Ya'll got it figured out yet?
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 16, 2013 - 10:56am PT
Obviously not! I noticed a bunch of deletions this morning though.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 16, 2013 - 10:56am PT
ElCap^^^of course not but folks like to bitch about stuff online and this is a great outlet. BEWBS, the Supertopo Benghazi.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 16, 2013 - 11:01am PT
Bruce, Leggs sent me a PM saying she calls 'em as she sees 'em.


People are PMing about this?

Multiple proxies?

Ho, man, Sounds pretty serious.

Should I send somebody a PM?
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 16, 2013 - 11:12am PT
You need me to pm you jeebs?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 16, 2013 - 11:16am PT
Thread does seem to have prompted a few to rethink their posts.

I suspect it has caused some people to rethink why they post on STForum at all, that's true in my case for sure.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 16, 2013 - 11:16am PT
Yes, Michelle, I shall even chaperone your words if you like, make sure they don't suffer any impropriety from these road bandits.
10b4me

Ice climber
Soon 2B Arizona
May 16, 2013 - 11:28am PT

Thread does seem to have prompted a few to rethink their posts.

I suspect it has caused some people to rethink why they post on STForum at all, that's true in my case for sure.

I agree Ed, in fact, I just sent an email to Chris, expressing that very opinion.
I know you have been here a long time, as have I(2002).
It is sad to see what the forum has become.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 16, 2013 - 11:32am PT
Very sad, hyperbole from all sides and then... bonobo bewbs and rock boners.
Breasteses are a very serious topic. Think of the children for thor's sake!
I really expected more from the fine, upstanding citizens here at ST.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 16, 2013 - 11:34am PT
My word!
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 16, 2013 - 11:36am PT
I am terribly offended. At what I am not sure but I am offended.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
May 16, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
I expected breasts and I got soap opera. Story of my life!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
May 16, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
Randisi wrote: To anyone who'd stop posting on Supertopo because of this:
Good riddance!


I suspect that you wouldn't post here if all such people ceased posting.

atchafalaya

Boulder climber
May 16, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
I changed my opinion after reading this thread.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
This will be my only post on this stupid ass thread, started by a troll master with nothing better to do,


And yet you came back.

As far as me trolling Jefe's sport route, it was one of my first attempts at trolling, and not very successful at that.
So what if I warned Jefe that I was going to do it? I had openly, through the phone, given him crap about rap bolting, and he gave it right back. I don't personally believe in rap bolting, but it doesn't change my opinion of him as a person.

10b4me, am I a climber? I don't know, I've only done 50 or 60 grade V or VI routes, and only a measly 10 on El Cap, so possibly I'm not in your league.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 16, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
Boycot the Bewbs, that is the answer. Personally I find the ST political rants just as offensive. Wait...I guess that is why I largely ignore those threads. Silly people.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 16, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
Hey, don't lament the loss of the 2002 era ST (I was there too) . And there are quality threads. Everything evolves. Stay in the moment and look at what's good. I like the community here. I've made some awesome friends over the years. And sure, like every community there are as#@&%es. I'm not going to waste my time and get fused personally into any of these arguments.

Ed, I'm STILL hoping o go on a weds in June. Traffic is a definite demotivator :(

Jeebs, thanks man, I needed a good PR guy. Maybe you can ghost write a TR for me making my awesome 5.4d climbing look epic and badass



And don't forget, life is just the maintenance of negative entropy, so don't fall into the trap of de-evolution. Blablablah etc rambling. I'm off to get giant coastal artichokes and take pictures.

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 16, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
It is a sad commentary when Leggs, 10b, and Survival start going at it.

C'mon, big group hug NOW!

Credit: Reilly
McCfly

climber
May 16, 2013 - 12:55pm PT


hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 16, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
What a bunch of suburbanite hipsters. I thought I was old until I browsed the mugshots thread. But you people, with your geriatric hair colors and antiquated moral hypocracy, should not leave the safety and familiarity of starbucks and the local senior fitness center. Oh wait, i forgot the soccer moms- more suburbanite latte swilling hypocrites. "What choo lookin at? Dont be lookin at me- I aint dressed this way for you!"
Stay the f*#k out of public then or learn how to choose clothing thats not three sizes smaller than a postage stamp.

What a community- "we're different. we're brave. we go places others wouldnt dare. we're a community. we support each other."
bullsh#t.

What once was bold and daring and wild is just more mainstream suburbanite vomit.

Oh, but dont celebrate my departure, i,ve got more to contribute. No good riddance here, no riddance at all.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 16, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
Way to add to it buddy.

And I shoot hipsters on sight (in my mind)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 16, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
(sigh) I sooo wanted to avoid this thread. BUT..

A while back someone posted a HUGE pic of a penis.. My reaction was that of disgust. Personally, i only like MINE. The rest,, i could live life all the way through- never see- and would be happy .

So in that light i realized why some women find the soft porn, and THAT IS what it is , to be offensive.

Our society is slowly slipping the exact same way Rome did. Now the govt wants to make it ok for a fifteen yr old girl to get a dangerous morning after pill without parental consent.. What a FARCE of an idea. Since WHEN does a fifteen yr old have ANY sense? Since when are they allowed to be freely promiscuous? And of course,, if fifteen yr olds can get them, YOUNGER girls will figure out a way as well. So in essence weve lowered the statutory limits to fifteen, soon to be followed by ANY AGE??

Many a joke is made of "Kentuckians" and "jail bait brides" yet that is exactly what seems to be happening with our latest and greatest legislation considered now. Everything ISNT meant to be ok..( A Green day lyric). And as such i shall respect the fairer sex in their wishes here. In America, locker rooms are still seperate. That is all..



hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 16, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
oh, was that cranky? huh. boobs, no boobs. whatever. the climbing content rocks, and on that front i dont think theres a better site.

otherwise, theres not really much community when you,re all so easily offended as to pack up and run, or call people creeps and pervs, celebrating their departure with good riddance comments and such. Really, go back to highschool and start a clique.

I quit worrying about offence, acceptance, and community. you guys are not terribly accepting. What ya want is normality and status quo. Step outa bounds, and whamo.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 16, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
You are so right ronski,
It is much better to have 15 year holds decide between having the unwanted pregnancy or an abortion.

It is a slippery slope from boob threads to teen sex.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 16, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
If i had a daughter she WOULDNT be having sex at 15. And IF she did,, i sure as hell would want to know about it and WOULDNT want her taking some pill with a side effects list as long as yur arm without my knowledge either.


15 in Nevada is statutory rape.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 16, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
since when did teaching abstinence as the only way ever work ron? im guessing you never tried to nail a chick in highschool eh?

never mind, thread drift. whatever i contributed to the original boob thread i tried to keep within what at the time appeared to be acceptable and add an artistic flair. but from what ive read here, its just creepy regardless. pulled all those contributions, btw, considering. no matter.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 16, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
I enjoyed the boob thread as much as any of you, but it seems it was out of line. We need to get back to PERSONAL responsibility, in living, in being parents, and in being kids. Its NOT up to the govt to tell us how to do any of that. " Hi were from the govt, and here to help"...uhhuh...
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 16, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
Frankly, the nostalgia for the "good old days of ST" is (like all such pining for the past) well off the mark.

I've been here since pre-registration days. The tone is no different, actually it's probably a little more reigned in these days than it was back then. More people, more content, same tone. There were no "good old days", they only exist in your imagination.

patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 16, 2013 - 01:43pm PT
ronster, the pill IS personal responsibility, abortion is the government.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 16, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
" Its NOT up to the govt to tell us how to do any of that."

WTF does boobs & ST have to do with gov't intrusion?

Nothing...except to the unstable, paranoid mind of the rightwingnutz.
McCfly

climber
May 16, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
Ron you need to wake the f*#k up man.

In the 90's in a well to do suburban town myself and many of my peers were having sex daily and doing drugs. Fact i did cocaine at the my first 7th grade dance and i did it with a group of the popular kids maybe 8-10 of them.

We where having sex on a daily basis smoking pot and and randomly doing harder drugs.

That was 20 years ago. Imagine what kids are doing now ;)

FYI many of those same people from that very dance went on to graduate ivy league school and have happy healthy families. A few did not make out so well.

For your daughters sake you might consider getting off your high horse your head out the clouds and step out of the stone age. It's 2013 for real check the calendar.

When your daughter is raped by some douche bag and too scared to tell you till it is too late to terminate the pregnancy do you really want to her either stuck with the child or live with having had to adopt it out and that whole can of worms.

Freaking nutjob!

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 16, 2013 - 01:49pm PT
ohhhwwww WAY back in the 90s ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 16, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
A female poster here PM'd me to say this is an inane thread. And that was BEFORE Ron started ranting all free form and shit!

I will of course not besmirch said lady's dignity by identifying her. I am a true bastion of chivalry in a bewb-fueled world.

Any true women of virtue and quality may PM me with utter assurety. I am your knight errant and keeper of the golden chastity belt!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
good morning all
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
You need me to pm you jeebs?

A female poster here PM'd me to say this is an inane thread. And that was BEFORE Ron started ranting all free form and shit!

I will of course not besmirch said lady's dignity by identifying her
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 16, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
Hahahah, you'd think that, Kenny! But it wasn't, much to my surprise.

A gentleman never tells...






















...I'm not sure why I won't.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 16, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
Dingus, you mentioned impulse control far up-thread.

I wasn't sure if you were referring to, a.) folks who posted boob pics, b.) folks who disliked the boob threads but clicked on the threads anyway (and/or explored them thoroughly to cultivate their sense of offense), or c.) both?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
what gentlemen?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
May 16, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
[see my edit]
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
I was starting to worry
McCfly

climber
May 16, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
Time to lighten the mood again...

Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 16, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
Now the govt wants to make it ok for a fifteen yr old girl to get a dangerous morning after pill without parental consent.. What a FARCE of an idea. Since WHEN does a fifteen yr old have ANY sense? Since when are they allowed to be freely promiscuous? And of course,, if fifteen yr olds can get them, YOUNGER girls will figure out a way as well.
ok no morning after pill for a 15 year old but let's still make it way easy for one to get a gun. who needs gun control.

oh wait, let's ask the christians. let's have them chime in here. the atheists too. how about the motorcycle enthusiasts. i'm sure they have an opinion. scientists, leftists, rightists, republicans and liberals, speak now or forever hold ur peace.

as farouk would say:

this is whey ghey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 16, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
by definition, pregnancy is not ghey.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
WHEY GHEYER
WHEY GHEYER
Credit: kennyt
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 16, 2013 - 02:44pm PT
by definition, pregnancy is not ghey.
true, but that is ^^^^^^^^^^
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 16, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
no, thats pimp! he needs one of the girls hats, a white cane, and some big gold rimmed glasses.white huggy bear!
the girls are positioned wrong as well- they need to be all up on him in good subservient manner, like it oughta be.

say, where do i get pants like that?

ps- dont be homophobic- some dudes just aint got no luck with the ladies.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
Manchilds

Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 16, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
Some of the ST could could learn something from Urban Dictionary

Panties in a Bunch

1. When a person overreacts to a trifling insult or barb, or to a joke.

2. When someone acts in an anal-retentive manner, and makes a big fuss out of a relatively minor problem.
ex.
1. Don't get you're panties all in a bunch, he doesn't mean it.

2. It's not that big of a problem, don't get your panties all in a bunch, it's going to be okay.


EDIT: Don't make me repost the monkey boobs again
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
May 16, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
I'm offended by the gender-specific nature of 'panties.'
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 16, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
Daphne wrote:
Off White refers to empathy. But that requires a relationship to feelings and many men don't live with a lot of openness to feelings, so calling for empathy lands on deaf ears. I think that is why Love Gasoline doesn't get it. He's a guy and wants a rational explanation. Our feelings don't really matter to him.


Daphne, I don't recall posting what I was feeling emotionally good, bad, indifferent, a mix of the two, something more complex, or other.
I suppose you don't view yourself as perpetuating gender stereotypes. Could this be because you're a woman and as such, are unable to think clearly or rationally?
;p
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 16, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
LuckyPink,
LuckPink wrote: @lovegasoline... Perhaps you did not see the whole of the original boob thread, the "underground" boob thread, Moosedrool's "I'm sorry" thread, and all the other threads that contained lewd photos of women with a leering, obsessive quality to them.


You are correct I did not. I saw Anastasia's thread, some other boob thread, and I think a sort of Tittays and Pancakes(?) thread, although I may be hallucinating the latter.

Anastasia has nothing to do with the direction that her thread went.

She was very encouraging during the progression of her thread. IIRC, other women posters posted boobs and expressed their pleasure in sharing and viewing them.


You have probably then missed the posts by Jennie, Jan , Gal, Leggs, Michelle, Happie and several other females (sorry RAM full)that describe so well the misogyny, and sexism that is rampant in those photographs. Daphne's post is on this thread and is well worth your read. You might have missed it. Did you read Tan Slacks posts? Many many men have posted here with the same observation of the eroticized abusiveness in the communication style of these posters.

I've read every post to this thread. If it was posted here and not back-edited or erased, I read it. There's a range of opinions and explanations contained in the posts you refer to, some of which I agree with and some of which I strongly disagree with.

Could it be that the (or one) issue is with certain individuals and not with boobs, or boobs being posted?

My view is similar to all the above.

Misogyny and sexism is a social malignancy. Misogyny is practiced by both women and men, the purpose of which is to devalue women in many ways simply because they are women.

I share your views of misogyny and sexism. But we likely have differences concerning what we consider devaluing.


Abusiveness in communication or bullying is a style that uses belligerence, belittling, blame, criticism, character attacks, humiliation, et al to dominate a conversation or interchange. The goal is to diminish and degrade the other. It is often characterized by impulsiveness and an underlying hostility. It can be expressed both aggressively and passively.

That can be applied across the board on Supertopo to every sub-genre of climbing content and to every sub-genre of non-climbing content. No subject matter on Supertopo is ever free of that.

The posts on ST that are of naked women often eroticize that abusiveness, hence the calling of names for those who express a dislike of that style ie" pussy, prude, etc and calling men who express a dislike unmasculine.

I've seen name calling on this thread, from both sides. I'm used to seeing that on Supertopo. I'm little unclear about the eroticized abusiveness and name-calling. There appears to be name-calling behavior from both the pro-boob thread and anti-boob thread: I'm not exactly clear how being calling someone a prude is eroticized abusiveness. The corollary to this is if the name calling by the anti-boob contingent also eroticized?


Misogyny at the core gives males a privilege of eroticism. It is not a two way street. To play, a woman must become sexually and intellectually subservient, to know her place, so to speak. And that's what these lewd photos are about. Control and degradation. None of it is about breasts or beauty.

There's a lot of content in your above words to consider.
The boob posts that I viewed didn't appear to me to be about that. The dominant theme to me was exhibitionism, which I do not perceive as degrading. A secondary theme was beauty.

I'm an artist and as a student both male and female artists would work from the male and female model. Ditto for the photographers.

I'm not sure what pornography is, there's been great difficulty in defining it, and there's also the saying, "I know it when I see it," which doesn't really help. In the arts there's everything from the Venus of Willendorf to Robert Mapplethorpe to Viennese Actionism to Paul McCarthy to Yayoi Kusama to Vanessa Beecroft and on to every conceivable expression of the human form. As a child, I was aroused by the underwear ads in Sears and JC Penny catalogues! Furthermore, if I had to make a choice pro or con, I'd say I'm pro pornography. I don't perceive it as evil, bad, or unhealthy.

I hope this clears things up for you. I feel that I may be describing racism to a Klan member, quite frankly. Or Judaism to a Nazi. I must say I have no idea what you were trying to communicate in your postscript up thread. The sentiment you stated seemed to apply to those with opinion on both sides of the issue. Couldn't make it out. Anyway best of luck and goodwill on your personal journey.

My postscript is merely stating that much of the analysis of the boob thread (that I viewed) seems to fall short of the mark with black and white theories.
As regards to respecting everyone’s emotions, that includes respecting the emotions of hatred and dislike that the Klan and Nazis experience … as well as the emotions of hatred or dislike by misogynists and feminists. It’s often rewarding to look behind the emotions at the thoughts, ideas, concepts, and ideologies that give rise to them.
I appreciate your taking the to write up your thoughts.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 16, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Although I wouldn't define the boob pics I saw as pornographic, I'll put this feminist analysis on pornography out there to further the discourse:

A Feminist Overview of Pornography, Ending in a Defense Thereof

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/ecn/starkey/ECN386%20-Race,Gender,%20Class/feminsits_pornography.pdf
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 16, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
eroticized abusiveness

Some people pay a lot of money for that. Quality dominatrix ain't free.
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
May 16, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
I want to thank everyone for their opinions, all the folks who felt strongly against pictures of boobs here, and wrote about their outrage, anger, sadness, harassment, threat, and fear. You have helped me to better understand just how valuable pictures of boobs are. I imagine a world in which pics of boobs did not exist. For many (but not all) of the fearful, harassed, depressed, sad, outraged, and angered … pics of boobs can be great therapy. There will always be haters and abusers, but we shouldn't allow them to control things. This opinion thread (more so than the boob threads) makes me understand just how important it is to have boob images in the world.

I conceive of boobs as benign, uplifting, and life affirming, having them all around is wonderful. I get the spirit of Anastasia's thread fully. It's a buzzkill though to have haters and abusers of any strip.

I can't speak for the greater good, but I'll claim my experience: I like boobs posted to Supertopo occasionally ... something I hadn't formed a strong opinion of before.

In fact, I'd like to see more images of boobs. Not just on Supertopo: EVERYWHERE!


I'd like to see a large pic of boobs projected behind the altar in churches, synagogues, and mosques.
I'd like a small portion of the news on TV devoted to images of breasts with some brief and affirmative commentary from the anchorperson.
I'd like to see posters of boobs in courtrooms.
I'd like to see boobs on highway signage and billboards.
I'd like each state of the union to embrace an official 'State Boob' image.
I'd like to see all the stars on the United States flag replaced by boobs.
I'd like the seal of the President of the United States to incorporate a large boob.
I'd like to see Bradley fighting tanks with large boobs painted on them.
I'd like to see elementary school classrooms in which children are taught how to draw boobs.
I’d like climbing forums to incorporate boobs.
I'd like genetic engineering to create living 'boob pits' in which angry and hostile people can be placed to relax.
I'd like crying women to be consoled with images of boobs.
I'd like hospitals to replace their TV programming in their waiting rooms with a succession of boob images.
I'd like cops to wear hats shaped like boobs.
I'd like the United Nations to change their logo to boobs and fly it on their flags and pennants.
I'd like to see all future Middle East Peace talks adopt trademarked imagery of two smiling boobs shaking hands.
I'd like USA Homeland Security agents issued a large boob patch for their jackets.
I'd like automobile seat designers to push even further towards creating seats that reproduce the experience of being smothered in boobs.
I'd like to replace the Statue of Liberty with a 300-foot tall boob welcoming immigrants to America.
I'd like to see all National Park Service welcome centers feature a seasonally changing boob exhibit to amaze and enchant foreign visitors.
I think these small changes can have a positive impact on the world.


Thank you Anastasia!
Thank you exhibitionist women for generously sharing your boobs with the world!
Thank you boob fans and appreciators!
Thank you boob photographers!
Thank you fashion designers who love to sculpt the boob!
Thank you topless hippy chicks!
Thank you 'regular' women who act on that urge to take off your top in public!
Thank you senior citizens who flash some boob!
Thank you Fattrad for your hideous manboobs!
Thank you Marilyn Monroe!
Thank you older men for your manboobs, you help spread unfathomable mystery!
Thank you artists of all stripes since time immemorial from the crafter of the Venus of Willendorf to the images on Anastasia's boob thread!
Thank you mom for your milky boobs!
Thank you universe for having the foresight to include boobs and to spread boob-joy throughout humanly measurable time!

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
lg, the best way to see boobs is up close!
McCfly

climber
May 16, 2013 - 05:12pm PT
I just cant help it..

McCfly

climber
May 16, 2013 - 05:16pm PT
Side boob.

Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
May 16, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
"Is Bruce a climber?
Me thinks not.
Seems like a poseur, and troll"


Yes 10b4me, Bruce is a climber. And a good one.

Credit: Cosmiccragsman
Credit: Cosmiccragsman

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 16, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
Ironically (not), half my cull list self-culled and got themselves banned. I hope they rot in hell.


Rot in hell, huh? Sounds like you bring a lot of "open discourse" to the table. Dissenting opinions, or ones you disagree with, should never be seen?

Welcome to ObamaWorld! Put your head back into the sand (or some other orafice).

DMT comes off as a "climber", as I am too, but anybody he disagrees with is painted into a corner of 'only posting political crap', and self-absolves himself of ever commenting on politics.

One word. Hypocrite.

EDIT: It must be a grand world where you can filter out what you disagree with, rather than listen to other opinions and have a discourse.

You voted for censorship, right? Silencing those you disagree with. Like Eric Holder and Obama though, you'll digress into "i support free speech, but this is a climbing site", until you spout your own political garbage. Then it's okay.

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 08:58pm PT
bluring should help get things rollin again
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 16, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
bluring should help get things rollin again


As a human being I'm full of many things. Including sh#t.

But I like to freely espouse my opinions while I still can.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
May 16, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
Hey bluey, how many drinks have you had so far tonight?
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
May 16, 2013 - 09:13pm PT
McCfly / RocJox
What happened to your Penis thread??

You got so little penis action on that thread
I wonder if you can last till tomorrow, I doubt it,
and it ain't me that sends the message to Admin
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 16, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
"But I like to freely espouse my opinions while I still can."

That ain't gonna stop until yer six feet under with a blue butt plug stuffed in yer craw.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
May 16, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
Welcome to ObamaWorld! Put your head back into the sand (or some other orafice).
Yes, Obama is to blame about the Boob problem, thanks to blueRing for calling Obama out! and exposing his secret hidden agenda of BOOBS
McCfly

climber
May 16, 2013 - 09:21pm PT
Dr.F

That thread did great. Moved stead till it got pulled a few hours after it was created.

Imop that thing had some of the funnier content i have seen on SP in a loooong time..
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
Yes, Obama is to blame about the Boob problem, thanks to blueRing for calling Obama out! and exposing his secret hidden agenda of BOOBS

one more thing to like about our pres.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 16, 2013 - 09:31pm PT
As a human being I'm full of many things. Including sh#t.
You used be a nice presence here and I loved reading your trip reports. That bluring ceased to exist quite some time ago.

Pity.

DMT
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 16, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
You used be a nice presence here and I loved reading your trip reports. That bluring ceased to exist quite some time ago.

Pity.

DMT


Then piss off and put me on your cute little 'censored' list. I really don't give a f*#k.

Once I start getting out more, I'll post most TR's. Helping my wife raise our 4-year old has put a damper on my free-wheeling, bail-for-the-weekend lifestyle.

I don't regret it, just sayin', that's why my climbing content is down. And nobody probably wants to see my local trips to CRSP. It's overdone.

Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
May 16, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
Then piss off and put me on you cute little 'censored' list. I really don't give a f*#k.
ouch!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
May 16, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
Turd Nugent
Turd Nugent
Credit: kennyt
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 16, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
Credit: apogee
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 16, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Browse my picture library, Apogee....
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 16, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
Don't be so defensive, son.
McCfly

climber
May 16, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
This is a climbing forum? I thought this was just a place societal misfits come to feel more normal and a sense of empowerment...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 16, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
Then piss off and put me on your cute little 'censored' list. I really don't give a f*#k.

Clearly.

Come back to the light bluering. Its easy and it feels pretty good too.

DMT
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
May 16, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
Good to see that this thread is back on track with some personal insults and political banter.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 16, 2013 - 10:55pm PT
Clearly.

Come back to the light bluering. Its easy and it feels pretty good too.

DMT


I'm totally fine, dude. Just don't tell me to be calm or how to act. I will react as I see fit.

And again, sorry for the lack of climbing sh#t, I've been trying to raise a young boy. And while he totally digs camping, campfires and all that, my climbing time has diminished.

Politicking? Not so much.

I'm totally calm, dude....
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
May 16, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
Good to see that this thread is back on track with some personal insults and political banter.


Up yours. (hehe....)

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 16, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
Frankly, the nostalgia for the "good old days of ST" is (like all such pining for the past) well off the mark.

I've been here since pre-registration days. The tone is no different, actually it's probably a little more reigned in these days than it was back then.

Yep. So far off the mark as to render such perspectives as laughable.

DMT
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
May 17, 2013 - 12:19am PT
Wtf? I leave for the day and this is what happened!

I have only once (that I can remember) PMed someone for something that bothered me. A while ago. That person and I are on great terms now. If I need to express my dissatisfaction, I'll do it here or just let it go. Usually I PM questions or mostly positive feel good support crap or begging to go climbing lol.

I did post a couple of hot pictures of Mary Louise Parker. She's an adult though. I didn't and don't care for the young girls, or dudes, for that matter. Regardless of the actual age, the full on frontal photographs of young looking girls is just creepy to me. It's sad, but expected that there will be extremes of opinion in this matter. It's more sad that folks feel the need to name call and all that. The general "if you don't like it, you're a prude, pussy, " phucking makes me want to puke. What happened to respecting other people? The previously mentioned PM was, in fact, a request to mellow certain photos the phuck out. I addressed this person respectfully, he responded in kind and I look forward to climbing in the future with this guy. I choose not to get bent over this because it seems to be an issue beyond bewbbie threads on some hobbyist website. The struggle for equal rights for women is relatively important to me. I pick my battles. In the "real" world, I advocate and mentor women Veterans who have experienced military sexual trauma.


I wonder why whether one posts TRs or not makes them a climber. I have NO trip reports. Why? Well, lack of a camera, desire to shoot, no partners or insecurity because I seriously doubt people really are interested in my permanent 5.4d A0 status. I hate leading. Maybe I SHOULD get Jeebs to proxy a report about my epic top ropes or what have you!

But dammit, take your political arguments back to your own thread!

Now Paco, that was some funny shi.t. whatever happened to that guy?







tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 17, 2013 - 06:57am PT
Why do women want equal rights when they are allready superior?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 17, 2013 - 09:17am PT
Any true women of virtue and quality may PM me with utter assurety. I am your knight errant and keeper of the golden chastity belt!

I bet your inbox is overflowing? harhar

The rest of you girls should feel free to PM me ;-) .

Even you jennie! :-))

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 17, 2013 - 09:19am PT
Dingus, you mentioned impulse control far up-thread.

I wasn't sure if you were referring to, a.) folks who posted boob pics, b.) folks who disliked the boob threads but clicked on the threads anyway (and/or explored them thoroughly to cultivate their sense of offense), or c.) both?

I'm sorry I was very distracted when you posted this and did not mean to ignore your question. :-)

I was referring to myself, silly.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
May 17, 2013 - 09:24am PT
What a community- "we're different. we're brave. we go places others wouldnt dare. we're a community. we support each other."

Its true. I'm different. I'm brave (on occasion). I go to places most of you WOULDN'T DARE and do things there that, um.... hehe.

This IS a community, an American community for the most part and a Californian one in large, as well. We support each other like Californians... a race of angels bound to one another.

Support? That's what the ropes are for.

Don't try walking a mile in my shoes. No $10k bet.... I just don't like being followed around.

DMT
McCfly

climber
May 17, 2013 - 10:20am PT
In lieu of the conversation turning towards images of young women i have this to add to the conversation.

This woman began and has driven my love affair with the female figure for nearly three decades. She never ever gets old to me whatever her age. People can and have said all kinds of things about her waif like figure and her adolescent young look blah blah blah. To them i say get over yourself you alone are not that important. I say if you don't like it you are the problem. Some people are fat some are skinny, some have a young look, some always look like that have two lives on them. Appreciating youth in the female form does not make one a pervert.

Kate Moss was my first crush as a young boy and still in my mind the perfect picture of beauty when taking into consideration the female figure.

If you don't wanna look at pictures of Kate Moss you might not want to click on the link..

http://markdsikes.com/2012/11/25/the-book-of-kate/
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
May 17, 2013 - 10:27am PT
I expected breasts and I got soap opera. Story of my life!

^^^^
That is brilliant.


survival is not a climber? huh?

bluering, you got your priorities straight with the things that actually matter. You don't need to defend them here.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 17, 2013 - 10:30am PT
Credit: Ron Anderson


one fer the ladys,, a completely NEkid me..
McCfly

climber
May 17, 2013 - 10:34am PT
Ron:

That might just be the only tidbit you have contributed to this site that i find to be of value.

My guess is you feel much the same about my content it's all good.

You made me laugh and that is good!
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