OPPOSE the NEW Lake Mead NRA BOLT CHOPPING PLAN!!!

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andrewsolow

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 10, 2013 - 12:41am PT
April 9, 2013 - Please review the plan and submit your comments by this Friday, April 19.

OPPOSE the NEW Lake Mead National Recreation Area (NRA) BOLT CHOPPING PLAN!

Submit Your OBJECTIONS Online here

The Access Fund's 2010 comments on this ongoing issue.

Comments are technically due by Midnight on Friday, April 12, 2013. But, The Comment Period has been informally extended for at least 7 days until April 19, 2013.

Andrew Solow
San Francisco, CA
Cell 415-722-3047

==
SAMPLE LETTER
==

To Whom It May Concern:

SUBJECT: Objections to: Lake Mead NRA: Preliminary Alternatives for the Draft Wilderness Management Plan / Environmental Impact Statement - March 2013

The RAM IT DOWN THE PUBLIC'S THROAT – NPS/LMNRA "Preliminary Alternatives for the Draft Wilderness Management Plan / Environmental Impact Statement - March 2013" contains a rock climbing management plan that prohibits rock climbing.

The purpose of this plan as written is to constructively ban rock climbing in the Bridge Canyon Wilderness, aka: Christmas Tree Pass, NV and places like it.

This rock climbing management plan is virtually identical to the previous NPS/Lake Mead NRA bolt chopping plan that was withdrawn back in 2010.

The new NPS Lake Mead NRA Climbing Prohibition on page 6 of the Prelim Alts for Draft WMP & EIS (3/2013) which is entitled: Rock Climbing Management Options – reads in part:

"Climbing is a legitimate wilderness activity. HOWEVER, THE PLACEMENT OF FIXED ANCHORS IS GENERALLY PROHIBITED IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE UNDEVELOPED QUALITY OF WILDERNESS AREAS."

Climbing in the Bridge Canyon Wilderness, aka: Christmas Tree Pass NV and throughout the Lake Mead NRA is functionally impossible without fixed bolts. The overwhelming majority of the existing and potential climbs are bolt protected slab climbs. So, prohibiting "intensively bolted routes" effectively prohibits rock climbing.

The term "bolt intensive routes" is a RED HERRING the use of which would enable land managers who hate rock climbing and know absolutely nothing about it to capriciously and arbitrarily determine how much leader protection is necessary to assure the safety of rock climbers.

95% of the anchors in the Bridge Canyon Wilderness are fixed bolts because there are virtually zero natural cracks or vegetation available to facilitate the use of removable rock climbing anchors.

Further, the majority of the established rock climbs in the Bridge Canyon Wilderness are so sparsely protected that the only way that the overwhelming majority of the existing rock climbs in the Bridge Canyon Wilderness could be less “intensively bolted” would be to prohibit bolts and force rock climbers to climb without leader protection risking death on every ascent.

The existing leader protection bolts in the Bridge Canyon Wilderness are from 25 feet to as much as 70 feet apart. Falling while leading some these climbs can result in leader falls over 100 feet on nearly vertical shear terrain.

There is one allegedly over-bolted cliff on the edge of the Spirit Mountain Wilderness called the Aviator Wall that could be protected by top rope. Rock climbing with top ropes on the Aviator Wall should be an approved activity. However, even IF there is a way to remove any allegedly unnecessary bolts from the Aviator Wall without damaging the rock, that should only be done by very experienced climbers so that permanent rock scarring can be prevented.

The Bridge Canyon Wilderness should be developed as a dry camping area with adequate off highway parking for approximately 15 vehicles in each of four distinct locations along Christmas Tree Pass Road with designated camp sites in at least two of those locations.

The original dirt roads from Christmas Tree Pass road to Willow Spring should be re-opened as improved walking paths so that human impact on the surrounding land can be minimized. Hiding those 100 + year old dirt roads has caused many climbers and hikers to bushwack cross country in order to reach the area around Willow Spring. As a result, instead of restricting the impact of human foot traffic to the existing dirt roads, erosion damage and scarring from pedestrian travel is now spread over a much wider area.

The so called Rock Climbing Management "Options" were obviously written by someone who hates rock climbing and rock climbers. The authors of this latest climbing prohibition and bolt chopping plan have ZERO interest in or understanding of what rock climbing is, or how to manage rock climbing as a legitimate activity, an avocation that millions of tax paying Americans enjoy on a regular and continuing basis.

If the Lake Mead NRA wants to effectively manage rock climbing as a safe legitimate activity in places like Christmas Tree Pass, NV, the agency must retain the services of a land manager who has experience managing rock climbing areas and who can work cooperatively with rock climbers. Constructively banning rock climbing is simply wrong.
moosedrool

climber
Stair climber, lost, far away from Poland
Apr 10, 2013 - 12:49am PT
Why the National Rifle Association would want to chop the bolts?
enjoimx

Trad climber
Yosemite, ca
Apr 10, 2013 - 01:20am PT
Is it usually appropriate to copy and submit the same sample letter in situations like these? In other words, is quantity desired over quality? I have no personal experience climbing at this place, but hate to see another climbing crag be regulated into oblivion.
A5scott

Trad climber
Chicago
Apr 10, 2013 - 01:29am PT
i'm pretty sure the National Rifle Association has zero to do with this


scott
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Apr 10, 2013 - 01:44am PT
Lake Mead NRA = Lake Mead National Recreation Area
(if your question was serious).
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 10, 2013 - 02:35am PT
I get fairly mixed feelings over unfortunate circumstances like this. Jorge and Joanne took me to Christmas Tree Pass on one of my trips down there. It's definitely sparsely bolted and, while not my thing, really stout routes. I didn't realize at the time they were in a designated Wilderness Area which brings up a lot of conflict for me as I support no bolting in wilderness areas.

Given it was designated a Wilderness Area in 2002 I would say maybe some sort of grandfathering compromise could be workout for the existing routes though I can also see the problems managing that for the NRA.

It's a tough one as it is in a wilderness area, but there isn't going to be climbing there without the bolts.
andrewsolow

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 03:29am PT
The sample letter was only supposed to be a starting point, to make it easier for people to draft and submit their own personalized comments. Just submitting multiple copies of the exact same template without modification would not be helpful.

For those of you who are younger than I am, we did a lot of climbing at Christmas Tree Pass between 1977 and 1980. And, a few other people started climbing at CTP in about 1975. Not sure if any technical climbing was done at CTP before 1975.

Most of the most obvious lines on the readily accessible major formations at CTP had been done by 1980, long before CTP was designated a Wilderness Area. But, if you can handle the terrain and the approaches, there are dozens of excellent multi-pitch routes left to do.

Also, from my point of view, the "Wilderness Area" designation is being abused by land managers to limit human activity so that the Government can limit the cost of supervising that activity.

However, I agree that letting everyone drill thousands of bolt holes with a lithium battery operated roto hammer every six feet on every crag in the world is a bad idea. So, some regulation is in order.

Not too long ago, some stupid teenagers defaced petroglyphs at CTP that are several thousand years old. Not sure if they got caught. But, it's that kind of behavior that gets the land managers pissed off. And, those most egregious examples of misbehavior are the impetuous behind the bureauocratic penchant for regulation.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 10, 2013 - 08:45am PT
However, I agree that letting everyone drill thousands of bolt holes with a lithium battery operated roto hammer every six feet on every crag in the world is a bad idea. So, some regulation is in order.

It is a pretty safe bet that won't happen at the Pass.

One issue is that the park service didn't tell anyone it was a wilderness area. When we started replacing Andrew Solo and Dick Richardson's 1/4"ers with some beefier stuff, we did not know of the wilderness designation. That was our mistake, of course. We never had need to consult a map, there's no ranger presence out there, so we missed that.

If you like slab climbing, there are some very stiff climbs out there. At least when you do finally get to the rare bolt, it's a new one now.

Anyway, get your comments in, the park service does listen.
caughtinside

Social climber
Oakland, CA
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:16am PT
Thanks for the info, letter sent.
steve shea

climber
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:27am PT
Where is Christmas Pass? I used to climb down there a long time ago south of Searchlight, anywhere near there?
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:28am PT
Fun area. Bunch of friction routes that wouldn't see any action sans bolt protection...

Dali Dome, MC1 at Christmas Tree Pass
Dali Dome, MC1 at Christmas Tree Pass
Credit: Brian in SLC
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Apr 10, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
So the stewards of Lake Mead NRA, a lake created by a GIANT FU@#$^NG Dam, which flooded the natural area and disrupts entire ecosystems, are worried about the "impact" of bolts?

LOLOLOL!!1111. That's a good one.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Apr 10, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Probably a decision made by some manager on the GS pay scale.

;-)
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 10, 2013 - 12:29pm PT


LOL!!! @ this comeback...

"Probably a decision made by some manager on the GS pay scale."...

Steve Grossman

Trad climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 10, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Andrew- Is this still being driven by the regional manager in a personal way?

By all means follow the comment pathway allowed but...

It would be more effective to start barraging his office with email directly so what is his name again?

He will eventually have to answer to people in the House and Senate like Mark Udall as to why he has chosen to openly discriminate against climbers as a legitimate user group.

I have said this before but the best way to deal with this entire situation is to bring pressure directly at the root of the problem which is one or a small group of prejudiced individuals.

As soon as one single bolt is removed using taxpayers money, then we as a community move to have the superintendent replaced. Simple as that.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Apr 10, 2013 - 01:37pm PT


"As soon as one single bolt is removed using taxpayers money, then we as a community move to have the superintendent replaced."...



I am TOTALLY ignorant in this area...

Has the above ever been done successfully by the climbing community???...

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Apr 10, 2013 - 01:48pm PT
I didn't realize at the time they were in a designated Wilderness Area which brings up a lot of conflict for me as I support no bolting in wilderness areas.

Healyje brings up an important point. What is appropriate land use in designated wilderness? I personally rebel when I see a wilderness use policy that has uniform prohibitions at this level of detail. The Sierra Nevada high country has a plethora of boltless technical climbing, so I could justify a "no-bolt" policy there. It has certainly been my personal philosophy there.

Christmas Tree Pass, in contrast, is an area where no bolts implies no roped climbing. I rather doubt that Congress intended to remove climbing from the area when it passed the legislation designating it as wilderness. Perhaps those with the ear of a Representative (AAC? Access Fund?) might need to do a bit of lobbying there.

In the meantime, I am writing my letter. Thanks for providing some incentive.

John

Edit: I tried a slightly different approach in my comments, by contrasting Pinnacles, which also had to deal with fixed anchors:

I have a concern with the current draft Wilderness Management Plan for the Lake Mead National Recreation Area (the "Plan"). If the proposal to ban fixed anchors for rock climbing includes removal of existing anchors, the effect of the Plan is to prohibit roped climbing. I seriously doubt that such a result comports with Congressional intent in setting aside the area as wilderness.

Specifically, the existing climbing in the Christmas Tree Pass area consists almost entirely of bolt-protected slab climbing. The bolts are relatively few and far between, and the leads are quite committing as a result. From a safety standpoint, there would be virtually no justifiable climbing there without bolt protection. Bolts are, by their nature, fixed anchors, so banning fixed anchors bans bolts by definition.

Bolts are small, and have no visual impact on the area when viewed from any distance. They are visible only up close, and then it often takes a keep eye to spot them, particularly when they are spaced as far apart as those at the Christmas Tree Pass area.

For this reason, I strongly urge you to reconsider and reject any blanket ban on fixed anchors. Other climbing areas relying on bolts for the bulk of protection, such as Pinnacles National Monument in California, have dealt with bolting issues by requiring that all bolts be placed by hand on the lead. If bolt hangers are too visible, the NPS can always require that any hangers be of a color that would camouflage their existence. Such restrictions reasonably protect both climbing and the wilderness nature of the area. A blanket ban on fixed anchors, in contrast, places the area off-limits to climbers, with no concomitant benefit to the public.

Thank you for your consideration of this issue.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 10, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
Just an idea, but Christmas tree areas -being a significant Native American area, along with several species of wildlife including big horn sheep and some other rare mammals may be influencing factors in this.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 10, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
Land managers are required by law to respond to the issue raised during the comment period. 1 million letters saying the exact same thing are pretty much useless and a waste of tax payers money (someone has to read them all to confirm they say the same thing). All legitimate modifications, alternatives, and improvements will need to be addressed by the agency. Saying the same thing in 1 trillion letters will definitely be less effective than your own insightful comments.

There are some environmental groups (I won't say who) that make it a practice to submit HUGE documents during comment periods. Often the first couple pages are relevant, then there is stuff from 10 year old projects that have nothing to do with the proposal (equipment/techniques that are no longer used), then a few relevant comments, then more crap, then relevant, etc. YOUR tax money pays for agency employees to sift through the bullshit and extract the (hidden) relevant comments... they have to, it is the law. If they miss it, there may be consequences.

I wish they would stop that practice. I like the environment and would love to support them... but that is a bullshit tactic.


Sec. 1503.4 Response to comments.

(a) An agency preparing a final environmental impact statement shall assess and consider comments both individually and collectively, and shall respond by one or more of the means listed below, stating its response in the final statement. Possible responses are to:

Modify alternatives including the proposed action.

Develop and evaluate alternatives not previously given serious consideration by the agency.

Supplement, improve, or modify its analyses.

Make factual corrections.

Explain why the comments do not warrant further agency response, citing the sources, authorities, or reasons which support the agency's position and, if appropriate, indicate those circumstances which would trigger agency reappraisal or further response.
spenchur

climber
Flagstaff/Thousand Oaks
Apr 10, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
I was on a field trip for a petrology class not too long ago to the area. As a true rock nerd both academically and as a climber, I was droooooling at the beautiful formations.
Christmas Tree Pass, March 2013
Christmas Tree Pass, March 2013
Credit: spenchur

The native american history here is something to behold.
Grapevine Canyon, Christmas Tree Pass, March 2013. According to a frie...
Grapevine Canyon, Christmas Tree Pass, March 2013. According to a friend, this means "a religious hunt" or something to that extent.
Credit: spenchur

A place of mass tribal trade, a natural spring brought them from long distances.
Grapevine Canyon, Christmas Tree Pass, April 2013
Grapevine Canyon, Christmas Tree Pass, April 2013
Credit: spenchur
andrewsolow

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 02:57pm PT
Bolts are small, and have no visual impact on the area when viewed from any distance. They are visible only up close, and then it often takes a keep eye to spot them, particularly when they are spaced as far apart as those at the Christmas Tree Pass area.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 10, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 10, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
Healyje brings up an important point. What is appropriate land use in designated wilderness? I personally rebel when I see a wilderness use policy that has uniform prohibitions at this level of detail. The Sierra Nevada high country has a plethora of boltless technical climbing, so I could justify a "no-bolt" policy there. It has certainly been my personal philosophy there.

Christmas Tree Pass, in contrast, is an area where no bolts implies no roped climbing. I rather doubt that Congress intended to remove climbing from the area when it passed the legislation designating it as wilderness. Perhaps those with the ear of a Representative (AAC? Access Fund?) might need to do a bit of lobbying there.

In the meantime, I am writing my letter. Thanks for providing some incentive.

John, I believe that the big majority of the bolted routes came before wilderness designation. Thanks for writing. The Pass is one of my favorite places, and it seems I always climb on a higher level there. There are some very bold and sustained leads at the Pass. There's a lot of choss, too, though!
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
Thanks for bringing this issue up. It is certainly an interesting and unusual area.

I know climbers have been going there since at least the early seventies. I've only roped up there once, thanks in part to an enjoyable party that Ron held for Layton. From our limited forays and talks with others, it doesn't seem like this place would ever really become over run with bolts and crowds due to the nature of the rock. But you never know, it would be sad if that were to happen. It seems more like the kind of area where one enjoys exploring the desert solitude as much as the bit of climbing.

Christmas Tree Pass is a special area which we should work to protect. I believe a limited amounted of hand drilled bolting is reasonable in this Wilderness Area.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 11, 2013 - 01:19am PT
Christmas Tree Pass is a special area which we should work to protect.

Agreed.

I believe a limited amount of hand drilled bolting is reasonable in this Wilderness Area.

But that's the rub. As climbers we have clearly demonstrated we suck pretty hard at self-imposed restraint and moderation, particularly around bolting. I suspect what protects Christmas Tree Pass from such excess is it's remoteness and the fact the quality of the rock probably doesn't appeal much to younger climbers. Were it closer to town and of better quality rock it would likely have been retro / grid bolted long ago.
andrewsolow

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2013 - 07:35am PT
the quality of the rock probably doesn't appeal much to younger climbers
This is off topic, but it might interest someone.

I spent a total of roughly 9 months at Christmas Tree Pass in 1977, 1978, 1979 and 1980. The rock quality is a lot better than most people are aware of. It's quartz monzonite like Joshua Tree. Some if it is rotten. But, a lot of it is really solid. I tested 1/4" x 1 1/8" bolts both statically and dynamically in that rock and found that the bolts pulled out with a static load of about 2,500 lbs using SMC hangers.

The main problem with the rock is that it is very sharp. We climbed there from October thru April and wore rugby shirts and painters pants to protect us from the rock. Our clothes took a beating, but protected our flesh from abrasion damage. The longest falls we took were 40-50 foot sliders.

The other problem with the rock is that there were a lot of small quartz crystal intrusions. The most difficult rock to hand drill is relatively hard rock with a small piece of quartz protruding half way into the hole you are hand drilling (using a 20 oz or 24 oz hammer). That tends to bind and break off the drill. (Any of you folks ever change a taper shank drill bit when you were run out 30+ feet and standing on a greasy little quartz knob?) We installed 200+ 1/4" bolts at CTP; and I still have hammer scars on my left hand to this day.

Frankly, hand drilling 3/8" diameter holes in quartz monzonite or granite is not very practical. But, allowing indescriminate use of lithium battery powered roto hammers in wilderness areas isn't a good idea either.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 11, 2013 - 10:56am PT
Nevada has several areas with crags, walls and canyons, that are off limits to climbers. All of these areas contain Indian artifacts and petros.. Some are very remote as well, yet are afforded protections from further damage.

Then take into consideration the recent vandalism at the milks- with stolen and damaged artifacts. I think it probably has to do with damage to x-mas tree pass and its treasures. Theres many an area where we just plain went CRAZY with bolting. I wont mention those areas, but you all know them well.

That sets a certain precedence in the minds of administrators that now affects the decision making process in a negative manner. Bolting went out of control a while ago. I would imagine we will being paying that piper now and in the future. For every action, there is an equal and opposite re-action.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Apr 11, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
HJ, Ron:

Good points. I think some climbers are an irresponsible user group and it seems imminent that we will start seeing more and more regulation as the land managers become aware of our antics.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Apr 11, 2013 - 09:17pm PT
"There is one allegedly over-bolted cliff on the edge of the Spirit Mountain Wilderness called the Aviator Wall that could be protected by top rope. "

If that is true (and I have no idea)
why don't you just remove the excess bolts
to remove the basis for complaints?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 11, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
You are dealing with the bureaucratic mindset.

STOP TRYING TO THINK RATIONALLY!

Any argument remotely plausible that gives them something to regulate is a raison d'etre.

Good luck on talking them out of it.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 11, 2013 - 09:36pm PT
Then take into consideration the recent vandalism at the milks- with stolen and damaged artifacts.

Where was that?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 11, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
Damn, dude, you have a massive hard-on for Ron!

Volcanic tablelands, 'Milks, it's all exactly the same. Exactly!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 11, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
not as big as your hard on for me... jesus dude, get over yourself!

I'm aware of several panels in the tablelands and the milks. I was curious if more sh#t near the milks got smashed.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 11, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
guess i should have typed down BY the milks.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 11, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
not as big as your hard on for me... jesus dude, get over yourself!

Ummm... no. Nah, I halfway like you, dude, was one of the ones who commented about the injustice of you getting CMac attacked back when you got axed to leave. It would be easy to demonstrate that the sheer volume of posts you direct towards Ron far outweighs any supposed vendetta you dream I have against you, but I'd leave the accounting to somebody more interested than I am. Don't worry though, I'll let you know when you make my vendetta list, although you are a damn sight short right now. Work harder! No, I'm just sorta agog at the Travelling Wes and Ron show, really. Does it know no bounds??!!! Hahahaha...

edit: Sorry for the thread drift, btw. I don't know much about the Xmas Valley, always hard to say when artifacts are involved.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Apr 11, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
Here is a link to post your thoughts on the plan:

http://parkplanning.nps.gov/commentForm.cfm?parkID=317&projectID=16820&documentID=51955
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Apr 11, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
Sorry, dealing with a deathly ill dog... meant to write:

not as big as your hard on for my hard on for Ron.

Whatever.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Apr 11, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
Ah, whatevs, man, I guess I'm just a POS sorta peacemaker, probably should leave people to whatever pleases them.

Sorry about the dog, that really sucks. Knowing the loving little retards are most likely gonna go before us is the bitter catch.
the albatross

Gym climber
Flagstaff
Apr 12, 2013 - 12:02am PT
Here is a link to an Access Fund statement in regards to CTP:
(note, this and the other link I posted were from OP)

http://www.accessfund.org/atf/cf/%7B1F5726D5-6646-4050-AA6E-C275DF6CA8E3%7D/NV--Lake%20Mead%20NRA%20Wilderness%20Plan%20Comments_04.19.12.pdf.pdf
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Apr 12, 2013 - 10:49am PT
Bump
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Apr 12, 2013 - 11:02am PT
Dudes, there are much better uses for a hard on!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 12, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
+1 Coz,, hope yur pooch recovers rapidly Wes. Sorry to hear that.. ..
Laine

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Apr 12, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
Letter sent.

I recall using a chainsaw and driving around in the Wilderness of Tahoe years ago to fight a fire in the name of protecting life and property. A protection bolt installed using mechanical means in the wilderness does exactly that, protect life.

Exceptions can be made.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 12, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
All human life is equally valuable, but some are more equal than others.
TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Apr 16, 2013 - 03:32pm PT

Bumpity Bump !
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