Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 60 of total 60 in this topic |
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 9, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
|
Welcome to comp climbers heading out the exit sign of their gym and coming to the crags.
Get used to it, the floodgates are now OPEN!
Cheers
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
That's great! Some will stay sport only, some will migrate to sport/trad of which a few will discover alpine. Climbing will be the better for it.....as you say, the floodgates are open.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
You have a point Ron....climbing gyms have greatly increaed performance but have been detrimental to the overall climbing IQ. Gyms teach what is necessary for gym safety and do not address the myriad of new risk factors that come with the great outdoors.
|
|
skywalker
climber
|
|
Good for him! I'd like to watch someone do something like that in person. As someone who has been climbing 25 years my onsight ability (or hardest onsight) has been the same grade trad as it is sport. Beyond that grade I botch a sequence, etc. Even trying to redpoint something its not much harder. As the grades keep getting pushed I keep shaking my head saying "how do they do that?!"
Wish I knew how to do that.
S...
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
|
My thoughts are that the gyms often foster safe habits. I cringe at how i learned to climb 26 years ago (ie read a book and go try to not kill myself). There are clinics, outdoor climbing clubs organized through the gyms, etc. (things like the RedRock Rendevous, etc.), that are all
attributable to the increasing popularity of climbing.
Sure, the idiot quotient will go up because you have a larger sample...
Another factor is that climbing is now approached as a sport instead of a lifestyle...
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
Good point Ron, what are you doing personally to mitigate that? How many young men and women are you mentoring? ;D
|
|
patrick compton
Trad climber
van
|
|
Gyms are killing climbing as we know it. Video killed the radio star
|
|
kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
|
|
My thoughts are that the gyms often foster safe habits.
Uh yeah, keep telling yourself that.
Leave yer dogs and kids home, or at least at smith rock!
my poor attempt at humor these kids are making me feel ancient.
|
|
burntheman
Trad climber
slt
|
|
climbing .14c doesn't just happen because you climbed in a gym. for every bit of physical prowess you need an equal counterpart of mental dexterity. to climb hard is lots of times climbing smart. to climb this hard by 13, is likely a culmination of genes, conditioning, practice, learning from experience, mental preparation and execution, and great mentors.
now i can't say that i haven't seen unsafe climbing practices with folks who have belay cards tied to their harness, or speak to hordes of gym taught climbers - but to say the kid in the op is doomed if he transitions to other facets of climbing is forgetting how he has already accomplished so much. you don't unlearn that sh#t.
could you imagine climbing .14c at 13 and getting a RON A reception on the taco. what joke. quit hating.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
I know you have Ron just giving you a hard time :) I agree there is a disconnect with some gyms regarding their attitude towards educating and the responsibilities they have to their members.
Gyms should not be held liable on paper, but there should be more effort to make sure local crags are cleaned, anchors are replaced/updated and climbers are informed about safe habits needed outdoors.
|
|
willm
Social climber
Oakland
|
|
... while wearing a watch and being belayed by his mom. Style points awarded.
|
|
kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
|
|
Little kennyt at 4
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
|
Ron...
He has expressed no interest in that. Trust me, if he did, when he's a bit older (ie. can drive himself), your concept of hard (5.10 in the Sierra) will disintegrate...
We are just witnessing the vangard, that is all. My boy, also 13, absolutely crushes crackclimbing...
It is the power of youth, coupled with PSYCHED coaching, members in the local climbing community (meeting place: Gym or crag) that mentor these kids, and parents that are willing/capable of providing opportunities.
You won't know what hit you...
|
|
kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
|
|
Do you homeschool?
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
|
Me? No...
Drew is a great student. Loves climbing... So Mom and I said "No grades, no climbing"...
Straight A student in honors classes...
|
|
kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
|
|
Climbing= good tool
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
|
By the way, Kenny...
Love the pic! I remember those days oh so well! :-)
|
|
skywalker
climber
|
|
Hmmm, maybe we should just put a few rolls of Charmin or Quilted Northern in their underpants. I sometimes do that too (you should see my highball pad)!
And we can talk about (insert very experienced badass, R.I.P.) et. al.
The kid climbed 14c! Good for him!!!
S...
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
|
Ron,
Are you assuming no instruction? Again, that is a bad assumption. Who in their right mind would hand a kid a rack and walk him over to something? Most of the gyms in this area (Seattle) offer classes and camps, and instruction in gear, anchors etc.
Still the best teacher is experience. And everyone has to start somewhere. This is a dangerous time for anyone, but obviously, the climber who can CLIMB has a lot more reserve for learning than the poor noob who is trying to learn to climb and protect himself at the same time (never a winning combination, but many people, like me, paid their dues this way).
In reality, i think statistically there is no difference. I have been arguing this with HealyJ for a looooong time. Its just there's more people climbing which increases the likelihood of more idiots being present. Said idiot will still kill himself doing something else.
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
There will be some crossover of course, but adventure climbing will still attract many. There's a big difference in doing a 2,000 foot 5.7 in the mountains and performing 5.14 or V14 in the gym or on small rocks. I started out in 1954 soloing the east face of longs peak before beginning to focus on small rocks, and the thrill and adventure of such experiences lasted until I quit several years ago. These were dual tracks for me and each had its strong appeal.
Congratulations to young Kai. He represents a future of climbing . . . but not the only future.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
Good for him! I'd like to watch someone do something like that in person. As someone who has been climbing 25 years my onsight ability (or hardest onsight) has been the same grade trad as it is sport. Beyond that grade I botch a sequence, etc. Even trying to redpoint something its not much harder. As the grades keep getting pushed I keep shaking my head saying "how do they do that?!"
Wish I knew how to do that.
S...
Umm, go to any popular climbing gym (at least in Boulder) and you'll see little kids climbing very hard, or should I say, what appears to be very hard to an adult. (You'll also see the same little kids get absolutely shut down on "easy" problems or routes that have mandatory long reaches.)
You won't really learn anything.
If you're not very perceptive, you'll think *wow are those kids really motivated and have some great technique and dedication and yada yada yada*.
If you're a little more perceptive, you'll realize that they have a different (better) strength to weight ratio, and consider that to their tiny little feet and fingers, what are small holds to you are jugs to them. Occasionally you'll see them climb with respectable technique, but hard gym climbing really has little to do with technique beyond the beginner level. (As an analogy, how much does being a great road biker have to do with bike riding technique?)
Watching little kids "climb hard" is about as impressive as watching monkeys "climb hard," it just boils down to different physiology. I guess if you go through life being amazed that flies can stick to walls and things like that, you can add little kids "climbing hard" to things to be amazed by.
When these little kids grow up, the best will be ever so slightly better than the best adult sport climbers are today, who are ever so slightly better than they were 10 years ago, and so. There was a big leap in performance with the advent of sport climbing and climbing gyms, but those gains have already been realized.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
|
blahblahblah....you are so off base...
They are FLASHING 5.14d now...these were the "youth" climbers of just 3 years ago.
My son's footwork and technique is off the charts, regardless of his strength to weight ratio, or tiny fingers, or whatever.
Offwidth, slab, overhangs, roofs, fingercracks, handcracks, fists, whatever...
Chris Sharma, the tail end of what i consider my era, struggles for years to send mid 5.15. Ondra sends the same route in maybe 25 goes total...
|
|
skywalker
climber
|
|
Yes, and I like that regardless if its bolts or tiny wires I perform relatively the same (helps with the bigger routes).
S...
Keep sending Kai!
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
My son's footwork and technique is off the charts, regardless of his strength to weight ratio, or tiny fingers, or whatever.
You may think so, but will all due respect, you're probably delusional in that regard. But we don't need to personalize it.
Consider this--do you ever see any really heavy climbers pulling down hard on overhanging routes? I spend a lot of time in crowded Boulder gyms with a lot of good climbers, and I know for a fact that you basically never see that. (People bring up John Dunne, but that's a little stale by now, and no one really seems to know how heavy he was when he did his hard climbs. I've heard other people pretend that certain climbers (like Fred Nicole) are heavy when I've seen the climber in person and know that they're in fact very light, just have a little muscle on their arms.)
If there really was such as thing as having footwork or technique that is "off the charts," one would expect the occasional fatty to have and use that "off the chart" to get impressive sends. But it doesn't happen because that "off the charts" technique only exists in your mind, at least as it relates to steep sport routes, which is what the little kids to well on.
They are FLASHING 5.14d now...these were the "youth" climbers of just 3 years ago. Funny how that only seems to happen at Red River Gorge and various places in Spain where, isn't it amazing, every week we hear about more and more climbers doing their personal bests, men, women, kids, old folks, whatever. Couldn't be that the ratings are soft.
|
|
enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite, ca
|
|
Any relation to Sam Lightner? The Thailand guidebook author and all around badass climber?
|
|
mikeyschaefer
climber
Yosemite
|
|
You may think so, but will all due respect, you're probably delusional in that regard. But we don't need to personalize it.
Believe me, SeaClimb isn't delusional. I've climbed with his kid on some of the most technical granite climbing anywhere, Index in Washington. Watched him hike some hold-less reachy slabs as well as well as physical 5.10 hand cracks (on lead with an anorexic rack). Ya he's got some incredible strength to weight ratio but he knows how to climb and use his feet better than most. The gyms aren't just pumping out headless sport climbers...
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
My thoughts are that the gyms often foster safe habits.
The constraints on the context for 'safe' in a gym setting are so limited as to render it almost meaningless in the real world beyond tie-in knots and a bare minimum of belaying skills. Gyms don't provide rappelling skills or experience operating at anchors or around edges. It's about the equivalent of a white belt (purity, innocence and knowledge sought) in martial arts.
And I see folks attempting to cross-over from sport to trad all the time and, after watching again and again in semi-horror, I have no problem at all saying more often than not it's an awkward and dangerous transition. And that's without even going into the added dangers of attempting to sport climb on gear.
It's human nature to focus on the exceptional standouts. But when you look at the sheer numbers involved with the percentage of the total climbing demographic who attempt to cross-over to trad each year it's just flat out stupid to think the majority are managing that transition with grace and aplomb without a heightened level of risk. That is certainly NOT the norm for those I see attempting to make that leap every year.
If anything, the gym / sport climbing ramps folks' physical skills - and hence ambition and attitudes - get way ass-backwards for the many new basics they need to backup and learn in the transition.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
|
Heel-y...
you took that out of context. Please note I wasn't talking about the tie-in knot/belay check.
I didn't start in a gym...they didn't exist when I started. I wish they did...
You are only bitter because of the quantity of new climbers being introduced to climbing. That is understandable...
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
|
Mikey...
Thanks again for taking Drew out! He had a blast and you are the example that I was referring to about the local climbing community taking care of instructing the youngsters...
Cheers!!
|
|
drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
|
|
blahblah-
Seaclimb's kid kills it.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
What you said about The Red may very well be true. Lots of news of sending there at a high level. Not sure about the soft ratings part but the Red does seem like it has a bunch of crimp ladders(powerful ones), as opposed to the techy nature of climbs at someplace like Smith.
Whatever, these kids are rad. Great to hear news like this.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 12:35am PT
|
blahblah-
Seaclimb's kid kills it.
Certainly.
But is it because of his "off the charts footwork" and "mental preparation and execution."
Or is the fact that he's 4'8'' and weighs 82 pounds of more importance?
You don't need to search for something like a supernatural explanation to explain the ability of small people to hang onto small holds. I think we all agree that it's good to see kids, old farts, and everyone in between getting out and enjoying the sport of climbing at an appropriate level of challenge to their ability and body type; that's all that really matters. Anyone who thinks seeing little kids do certain things that few if any adults can do is surprising must have lived a pretty sheltered life.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 01:15am PT
|
I went bouldering last week and there was a pretty good kid who was all of 4'5" and watched him try desperately to dyno to holds I easily could lock off to. If you can tell me with a straight face that he has an advantage then sir, you need to get your test levels checked.
...ability of small person to hang...
There are a lot of kids that climb. There are not a lot of kids that climb a route gigantic adults rate 5.14C. Just say something nice...
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 02:10am PT
|
Nothing bitter about it, simply a statement of fact. It's great that your kid is exceptional - however, extrapolating that to claims of 'fostering' safety and broad swaths of that demographic easily making the transition to the outdoors or crossing-over to trad is a mistake no matter how you look at it.
|
|
mcreel
climber
Barcelona
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 02:41am PT
|
Maybe the scene in the US has changed a bit since I left, but for me the most surprising and pleasing thing about this is to see a black kid climbing, not that a 13 year old is doing 14c.
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 06:23am PT
|
Kudos to these youths and props KaI. They're getting at it and getting hard at young age (Ashima, etc).
As someone upthread said, the future is here.
Some of these kids will never leave sport climbing. Some will drop out. Some will see walls and long trad routes and explore it and embrace it. And as Donini said, a small few might find alpinism and maybe do some great things.
These are kids already climbing at such high levels on sport. Look forward to seeing them progress and follow new paths as they grow. So many great futures ahead with today's young crop of climbers
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 09:40am PT
|
Blahblah,
That route (Scarface) is significantly easier with some height advantages...
Watching someone of Ethan Pringle's height simply skip over relatively "bad" holds to decent pockets while someone who is sub 5' desperately deadpointing to absolutely $hitty holds (regardless of finger size) while maintaining body tension to keep his feet on is what I call "off the chart" technique. By that I mean very very few people regardless of size have that kind of coordination. Most likely you do not have this level of coordination (or substitute the word technique) but will simply make the excuse that "I am too big".
Now, the flip side of this is that he will continue to be able to do this as he grows as it is something he has learned in a gymnastic sense. He will never be a huge person even as an adult. He will, however, far exceed what he can do right now. This I can guarantee you. But I sense a hater and a denigrater and i'm done with this discussion.
This thread was about Kai, not Drew. Kai is a phenomenal athlete (and he is the size of many adults already, negating your comments). He is a great student, humble and very respectful. His mother has provided every opportunity for him to progress in a field with very few African Americans. She chose climbing because of its culture, the fact that it requires thinking, and many other reasons. He trains for hours a day (how much do you? maybe that's the reason you will never attain what he can?) under high level coaches. He's a first class kid who tries real hard at everything he does.
|
|
steve shea
climber
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:18am PT
|
Those kids are unbelievable, really fit for what they do. It kind of reminds me of jibber skiing/park and pipe. It bears no resemblance to actual skiing. It is just "circus acts with skis on". Very impressive for what it is but little or no preparation for tout neige, tout terrain. This, type of climbing, very impressive for what it is, but offers little preparation for climbing in the broader context. That is not to say they cannot make the transition...looks like young Drew did. I'm living the mountain sports dream right now with 14yr old twins. They climb indoors and out, trad and sport. They rip on skis. They lap Corbets, Meet Your Maker and Broadway at JHMR like most people ski groomers. Soon they'll be leading up routes I could never do. My daughter won the Jackson Hole Town Downhill this year and follows 5.10, plays tennis, runs cross country... Go for it Kai and Drew!
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:30am PT
|
GDavis:
I went bouldering last week and there was a pretty good kid who was all of 4'5" and watched him try desperately to dyno to holds I easily could lock off to. If you can tell me with a straight face that he has an advantage then sir, you need to get your test levels checked.
G, why are you challenging me to disagree with you, when you're saying exactly the same thing that I already wrote in this thread:
Umm, go to any popular climbing gym (at least in Boulder) and you'll see little kids climbing very hard, or should I say, what appears to be very hard to an adult. (You'll also see the same little kids get absolutely shut down on "easy" problems or routes that have mandatory long reaches.)
|
|
AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:32am PT
|
I feel like such a dinosaur. These kids are so good.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
|
Steve Shea...
Good on you that you recognize that you are living a dream! i get so sad when i realize that i will some day awake from my dream and my kids will have moved on with their lives. I hope to be a part of that as well, but right now, they are my whole life.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
|
Blahblah, you said that being small and light is a gift. I say you have the body you have, and your ability to manipulate it is the gift.
Alex Honnold doesn't have advantages, he has a unique body he adapted for climbing. I don't have advantages, I Have a unique body I adapt for climbing. Etc...
Not at all the same thing.
|
|
the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
|
gonna chime in here. i know Kai and his mom Connie very well. I met Kai 5 years ago when he first started climbing and i saw his natural talent right away. combine that with the fact he is super humble and truly psyched to climb. plus his mom raised him by herself and she is very supportive, takes him to all the comps, belays when he climbs outside. more impressive is the fact that he has only climbed outside a few times, and just recently sent proper soul 14.a at the New River gorge in just 3 tries this trip and tried it once 2 years ago.
He sent it even though the finish was soaking wet. soooo
keep your eye on Kai. he is legit and a very good kid.
like it or not a lot of kids will be hitting the crags, most of them with the same desire and psyche for the sport that i had when i was young...
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
|
Hey Kurt...
You wouldn't believe the talking like a dutch uncle I had to do to get Connie to start taking Kai outside!
hahahaha
Cheers
Rudy
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
|
his mom raised him by herself and she is very supportive, takes him to all the comps, belays when he climbs outside.
Let's see... single mother, raised an awesome kid, and is a professor. Yeah, pretty bad ass momma!
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
|
Blahblah, you said that being small and light is a gift. I say you have the body you have, and your ability to manipulate it is the gift.
Alex Honnold doesn't have advantages, he has a unique body he adapted for climbing. I don't have advantages, I Have a unique body I adapt for climbing. Etc...
Not at all the same thing.
I didn't say being small and light is a gift. I said (something to the effect of) being small and light is advantageous to hanging onto small holds. And being tall is helpful in reaching between holds.
When you balance it out, you'll have funny things like kids being able to climb what has been graded (by average-sized adults) 5.14 but not be be able to do things like a V2 or V3 boulder problem (also graded by average-sized adults).
On average, being generally small is clearly an advantage in climbing; just look at animals if you have a hard time grasping that, but there will be exceptions for certain moves.
Everything I've written on this thread is fairly obvious and non-controversial. I'm not normally exposed to the soccer mom/dad part of modern climbing, for which I should consider myself lucky.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
|
yawn....
the most controversial part of what you said was very similar to what I heard many, many years ago when Caldwell and Sharma were 12...that was "yeah, they won't climb like that when they are adults"...well, guess what, that didn't pan out did it. You also stated that when this current crop matures that they would only be "marginally" better than the previous crop.
Now here is the kicker. The current crop reached adulthood (let's be arbitrary here and call it 18) just this year and last and they are currently flashing or sending in less than 10 goes what the previous generation does in 3 years (as defined by Sharma).
This trend will continue for at least several more crops. I do not believe we are anywhere near where the fastest mile on record is. There is large amounts of improvement to be had.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
|
Nice Dingus!
|
|
Paco
Trad climber
Montana
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 09:48pm PT
|
In theory, 'the gym' supports safer technical habits (i.e. gear management, anchor redundancy, etc.), but as Jim pointed out, many of these climbers will continue to broaden their horizons... and although it's always a good idea to set up quality anchors, there are far more elements to take into account in an alpine environment. I'm sure most of you have heard a story or two about some hot-shot gym rat who got into trouble on a more committing 5:7...
|
|
Paco
Trad climber
Montana
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 09:50pm PT
|
On another note...wow that kid can climb.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
|
I'm not normally exposed to the soccer mom/dad part of modern climbing,
I think you might be projecting... when I was just a few years older my mom took me out, gave me a belay, and in fact this weekend I'm going to pay her back by giving her a weekend in Big Bear on fun sport routes.
I agree that light and small is good on certain terrains, but without climbing the route I can't have a good opinion on if being a certain size is helpful or not. I mean, he's not THAT small... seems about as tall as Ramon Julien, if not taller.
Not responding to Blabla here, but it is the ULTIMATE beta move to say something like "well let's see him on a 5.7 hand crack...."
Let's see YOU on a 5.14. lol.
Stop moving the goalposts and give the kid big ups!
|
|
Paco
Trad climber
Montana
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
|
The climbing is unbelievable. And I've no doubt he knows how to climb HARD cracks, too. Seeing someone climb as smoothly as that is a serious inspiration. It's hard not to be cynical, with the amount of people that fail to draw the lines between their sport and another. But I suppose that's a conversation for another thread.
GO KAI!
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
|
Let's see YOU on a 5.14. lol.
Stop moving the goalposts and give the kid big ups!
I did in fact watch most of the video of the kid climbing the 14c (that's how I knew height and weight), and he clearly is an expert climber, in addition to whatever strength/weight ratio advantage he may have.
I'm sorry that some people take an attempt to have a rational discussion of the issues raised by kids climbing hard as "hating"--I'm happy to see anyone getting psyched by climbing and am at least mildly interested (and impressed) by the phenomenon of kids climbing hard.
Time will tell how these kids will progress in the future--I'll stay tuned to ST to find out!
Edit:
I mean, he's not THAT small... seems about as tall as Ramon Julien, if not taller. OK somehow I'm drawn in again.
In the video I watched (the kid climbing Scarface I think, the 14c at Smith Rocks), he said he was 4'8'' (I think) and weight was less than 85 pounds.
That weight is about half a GDavis or less, I presume?
According to WikiP, Ramon is 5'2'' and weighs 110 pounds (I'd guess he's in the bottom 1% of normal sized men). Ramon is an example of a tiny adult male climbing incredibly hard--do you think he climbs well because of his small size or in spite of his small size, or it's just a complete coincidence?
And the boy who climbed Scarface is significantly smaller than Ramon.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
|
Kai is 5'-6"...I'm guessing he's about 135lbs or so, maybe a touch lighter than that. He's a big kid for his age and still growing. Much much bigger than Ramon...He's never touched a crack, but given a week long trip would have not much of a problem, I think.
Drew is 4'-9"...he is a decent crack climber in all sizes (tips to offwidth/chimney) and is proficient at placing gear. I actually had him crack climbing at a very young age because cracks are never reachy.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 10:50pm PT
|
Blah blah,
You do realize there are two kids that we are talking about, right? One is my son, Drew. We are from Seattle. He's the kid climbing scarface at smith. Scarface is 14a. Its steep at the bottom and sweeping to vertical.
The other boy is Kai Lightner. He is climbing Southern Smoke, its 14c and located at the Red River Gorge and is very very steep. Kai lives in North Carolina. He's a competitor of Drew's on the USA Climbing Youth circuit. They've been competing against each other since they were 9. Kai is a wonderful kid and his mom is a gem.
There are other freaks out there who are highly trained even though they are very young. Robyn's kids, Brooke and Shawn, i'm sure you've seen. Then there are Eric Horst's boys, also animals. Eric has trained them as ATHLETES first and climbers second.
These are just the kids who are in the general climbing media. There is a whole slew of trained kids in the gyms who don't climb outside but if they did, can easily climb hard hard technical routes.
These are the vanguard of a change to climbing that we have not seen yet. Europe is beginning to experience it, and the US is not far behind.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
|
One more thing...
Its my opinion that the optimum height for males to climb cutting edge hard routes is from 5'-4" to about 5'-8" or so and between 115lbs and 140lbs...
Only an opinion and I haven't seen a statistical sampling.
I only started this thread because I wanted to point out that the age for developing crazy skills has dropped to well below fifteen.
|
|
AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
|
Just wait till some of the kids are out freeing routes on Trango Tower at 22 or so. It's coming.
|
|
SeaClimb
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 10, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
|
blahblah,
when you get a chance, do check out the video of Kai... Clint posted it aways back. It really is pretty cool to watch...
He's a good kid. Would that every kid had a parent (or two) like he has...the world would be a far better place.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 60 of total 60 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!