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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 17, 2006 - 12:41am PT
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Does anybody have or remember this cover? I can't remember the pariticular mag. It's a shot of Lynn from above at the top of the Nose on the FFA 1993-1994. I'd love to see that shot again.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 17, 2006 - 01:08am PT
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Here's the R&I Version:
I Recall Climbing as having the "Free At Last" Cover
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Jun 17, 2006 - 07:24am PT
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A rare picture of parking lot #58...
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2006 - 09:10am PT
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Thanks Tarbuster. That certainly is a fantastic shot.
Maybe that's the one I was thinking of. The climbing one isn't nearly as good as the R&I photo.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jun 17, 2006 - 02:07pm PT
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"Free at Last" ....gee I remember that - I took the photo!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 17, 2006 - 03:23pm PT
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far more more important than lynn's free ascent is the fact that i'm the ghey looking dude on that concrete retaining wall.
proud.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Jun 17, 2006 - 05:18pm PT
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Not only is it a retaining wall, your wearing lycra. Hahaha!! Your right, that is Proud.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 18, 2006 - 12:42am PT
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Ouch!
Doesn't Lynny look, well, almost pedestrian there above parking lot #58,
Eh?
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 18, 2006 - 12:48am PT
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They always flip the photo upside down.
How many people have been at this location and looked down?
The magazine cover is trying to sensationalize the atmosphere.
This is more natural looking?
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Jun 18, 2006 - 01:03am PT
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Thank you, bagawan!
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jun 18, 2006 - 01:25am PT
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Thanks Werner.
I remember the view, but I was aiding the Harding Bolts.
I was always confused by that photo, trying to remember the location?
Could someone post the Patagonia Catalog photo of Lynn finishing Insomnia.
Juan
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 18, 2006 - 01:44am PT
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yes werner,
why that's the correct photo orientation after all.
i think the hair style now looks to be a bee-hive.
ya know, a la B-52.
hmmm. not so hip in those days.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jun 18, 2006 - 01:55am PT
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LOL. I saw the B52's at the Country Club in the Valley.
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Spinmaster K-Rove
Trad climber
Stuck Under the Kor Roof
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Jun 18, 2006 - 03:53am PT
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It is more natural, but flipping it upside down instills a sense of vertigo. I've done it a few times with my own slides because it kind of adds to the disorienting feeling of what its like up there sometimes. You can call it sensationalist, but last time I checked that is how those guys earned their $4.50 an issue.
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
Austin, TX to South LakeTahoe, CA
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Jun 18, 2006 - 06:35pm PT
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I definitely liked Werner's version better.
-Aaron
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JAK
Sport climber
Central NC
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Jun 18, 2006 - 07:08pm PT
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At risk of asking a (really) stupid question - does "free climbing" to whereever it is she climbed mean that she did this entire climb without benefit of ropes?? If so, my esteem for her accomplishment will have plummeted big time.
Nope.
"Free Climbing" is climbing done using only the body for upward mobility. Protection (rope, nuts, cams, tricams, hexes, etc.) is used and extremely common. Lynn did the Nose on a rope.
"Free Soloing" is climbing without a rope or any protective gear.
Lynn Hill's free climb ascent of the Nose route on El Cap was a big deal because up until then it was thought to be an aid route only - that is, ascending some portions of the route using gear and not your hands and feet was necessary and unavoidable. Lynn showed that that was not the case.
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JAK
Sport climber
Central NC
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Jun 18, 2006 - 09:12pm PT
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"Is there anything about being a female which would offer an advantage in this regard e.g. less weight to pull up even given less upper body strength or perhaps smaller hands to fit into crevices etc. Seems surprising that she did this before any of the men did but good for her!"
Females are almost always better climbers than men - they're just a much smaller percentage of the climbing community.
Firstly, take it as a given that technique is a far better weapon against gravity than brute strength. Women (under most circumstances have a lower center of mass than men, and are more flexible. They also, yes, tend to weigh less. The only advantage men have in climbing is typically greater upper-body strength, and that really only comes into play on power routes with heavy overhang.
Being told you "climb like a girl" is a compliment.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 18, 2006 - 10:20pm PT
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Helen Reddy.
Wow.
big blast from the past; right up there with Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 18, 2006 - 11:30pm PT
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gee,
who won the match? I do not recall.
they were marketable celebs for sure; the tennis and running boom were fairly simultaneous and they rode that big wave.
remember the book, something like "inner tennis"?
the whole yabo story; hmmm, maybe another thread.
a good handfull of us on this forum had close experience with him...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 18, 2006 - 11:55pm PT
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no doubt,
yet the tragic element attends most lives in one form or another.
there is a heartfelt sense of yabo's contribution and place in the scheme; our scheme.
insight wouldn't necessarily characterize the gain in understanding yabo. perhaps the simple force of good story and the tell of a loved one's struggle would be enough.
he led a colorfull if tragi-comic life at times. more than most of us and much to our recurrent concern, he cast off into the un-tethered myth of the itinerant climbing bum. he put himself way out there on the edge, partially as an aspect of intense communion, somewhat as an act of self destruction, nearly always to the point of raising our eyebrows...
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 19, 2006 - 12:18am PT
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This is sort of a thread about Lynn Hill and the covers regarding her First Free Ascent of the Nose.
The significant ascents of the Nose are probably:
First Ascent - 1958, Warren Harding, Wayne Merry, George Whitmore
Second Ascent - 1960, Royal Robbins, Chuck Pratt, Joe Fitschen, Tom Frost
First One Day Ascent - 1975, Jim Bridwell, John Long, Billy Westbay
First Free Ascent - 1993, Lynn Hill, Brooke Sandahl
First Free Ascent in One Day - 1994, Lynn Hill, Steve Sutton
Whatever else you think of Lynn Hill, she probably did all that could be done with the Nose on her 1994 Nose in a Day Free climb.
Perhaps the only other ascent of note would be Beth Rodden and Tommy Caldwell in 2005 where they both freed the Nose in a day as a team.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 19, 2006 - 12:42am PT
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The cliff behind (l. to r.) Billy Westbay, Jim Bridwell and John Long, is El Capitan, and the route refered to by climbers as "The Nose" rise up directly above Bridwell's head. The entire route is something like 3000', it is impossible to get a sense of the scale from the photograph.
Climbing the Nose free was something that was around probably since the '60's, Frank Sacherer may have had a notion that it would go... and he even tried it, once at least with Bridwell.
The recent video which has been passed around has a clip of Bev Johnson, Werner Braun and Ron Kauk giving it a try...
...I'd say it probably was something any elite climber in the Valley thought of almost from the time it was put up.
Lynn Hill actually doing it was a huge accomplishment, in my opinion.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 19, 2006 - 12:44am PT
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Did a bunch of people (maybe she) try it with "aids" first .....?
Yes, kinda close but not that kind of "AIDS" :-)
Anyways Yabo was a very insecure character and always had to prove something to everyone and to himself that he was ok.
So he pushed himself always very far to the edge to "prove" that he was "real".
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 19, 2006 - 01:18am PT
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If you compare the two pictures, the one of Lynn Hill topping out and of the boys posing, you can get a sense of the scale of that stone, pick out features in both, or just look at the size of the trees.
However, until you are there, it is not like anything you can imagine.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jun 19, 2006 - 02:02am PT
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Driving by it riding in the passenger seat of a car on the road at the base, it rises so abrubtly that you can't see it all unless you're in a convertible, or a car with a sun roof.
BTW, Lois, I still think 'Downward Bound' by Warren Harding, is the book you should read.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Jun 19, 2006 - 02:07am PT
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Ed I think your list of significant Nose ascents is just shy of complete without noting the speed in which the Nose gets climbed these days. I know in this arena (speed ascents) that it continually changes. But the fact that it gets done in sub 2 hours, I think (anyone know who and what the current record is?)certainly deserves mention in significant ascents.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 19, 2006 - 02:28am PT
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T2 - I don't know what a signficant speed ascent is for a time less than a day...
perhaps that is the topic of another thread?
I certainly have my bias... what would you suggest?
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2006 - 02:33am PT
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More firsts and times here:
http://www.speedclimb.com/yosemite/thenose.htm
Some important ascents by the illustrious Werner and Bachar:
First female one day ascent by Merry Braun in 1990, ( partner Werner Braun).
1986 - the route was done in 9:17. (John Bachar and Peter Croft, they then went and climbed the NWRR on Half Dome) - They did The Nose on El Capitan AND the Northwest Face of Half Dome in a day! Visionary!
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jun 19, 2006 - 03:00am PT
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fet - 10 hr. 5 min. on the Nose and 4 hr. 3 min. on Northwest Face of half Dome - just for the record....
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JAK
Sport climber
Central NC
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Jun 19, 2006 - 07:47am PT
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"he entire route is something like 3000', it is impossible to get a sense of the scale from the photograph."
Just to help with a sense of scale, here's a nice pic of a helo from NPS zipping in supplies to a climbing party on the Salathe Wall (also on El Capitan) that wouldn't have been able to continue without them. Word is, that same party later had to be rescued. Anyway, should give an idea of exactly how big a wall we're talking about here.
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Jun 19, 2006 - 09:28am PT
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I think a significant achievement on the Nose is James Kirk's free solo. Of course he did fall from the boot flake but that wasn't really his fault; Spock spooked him. I suppose too, that it really isn't going to happen for another, what, 200 years or so.
Seriously though, while I have the utmost respect for the ground breaking, milestone setting, and record setting of all the ascents already mentioned, the most significant ascent of the Nose to me is my own.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Jun 19, 2006 - 04:01pm PT
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Lois,
No one really answered your question, "Why is it called The Nose?" The answer is in this picture. The Nose is a prominent ridge separating the west and east faces:
The route starts just left (west) of the Nose, crosses over to the promiment pillar (El Cap Tower) on the right side of the photo, about 1/3 of the way up the photo, then crosses into the sunlight (the Grey Bands)and then up the Upper Dihedrals. The map below is one I drew and is probably not too far off:
Check out http://www.supertopo.com/rockclimbing/route.html?r=ybelnose.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jun 19, 2006 - 05:23pm PT
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Werner is right about the mag cover photo being upside down. When I look at the cover I turn it around all the time. The one thing I notice when you look at it that way is Lynn looks seriously baked. (Not that there's anything wrong with that)
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jun 19, 2006 - 05:47pm PT
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Rotating photos is bullsh#t.
It really is misleading and it must be stopped.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Jun 19, 2006 - 06:08pm PT
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LEB - I don't understand what her hair has to do with her looking really stoned.
Please advise.
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2006 - 06:18pm PT
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Lois, - Largo has written a lot more than one book. I'd suggest this as a first read- Long on Adventure: The Best of John Long
I actually prefer the photo "upside down". It reminds me of the view if I were belaying from above. Down is down, up is up. Looks more natual to me.
I have taken photos "upside down" knowing that I would turn them around to view them, because it's easier to frame the shot that way.
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 19, 2006 - 08:12pm PT
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Lois, one viewpoint many climbers hold to one degree or another is that you shouldn't sensationalize your climbs with publicity. So some people may feel accomplishments are diminished by writing about them, they despise climbing magazines and other things that can glorify climbing which can detract from the real reasons you climb. Of course there is full spectrum of feeling on this from all publicity is good to don't even talk to anyone about a climb you did. My personal feeling is that you shouldn't be climbing to write about it, but it adds icing to the cake so why not (as long as seeking publicity doesn't lead you to do dumb things)?
Is the 70s incident the airplane crash full of weed? If so that is another author working on it. Interestingly though (and this is just on things I've heard and read so take it with a grain of salt) John Long wrote a screenplay premise on the incident, which was re-written as the screenplay for the Stallone movie Cliffhanger. I would love to hear the real story straight from the horse's mouth so to speek. I can't help but imagine the screenplay in Largo's head would have been much better than what they ended up with. Largo care to fill us in?
On another note I noticed a current climbing magazine has an article written by Mr. Long about his group of climbers in the 70s, the Stonemasters. I haven't had the chance to read it yet. I hope it's an appetizer for a full book :-)
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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Jun 19, 2006 - 09:39pm PT
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I think it is important to give credit where credit is due: the killer photo of El Cap in red with the helicopter was taken by Mike Shore. He graciously allowed the Friends of YOSAR to use it on their site, and later it hit the cover of one of the mags. It is copyrighted and Mike does not want it used freely. Please respect his wishes.
Great photo, Mike.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 19, 2006 - 11:10pm PT
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Yes Lois, John Long is a writer and has worked very hard at it over the years. Lynn pretty much wrote a memoir with the assistance of Geg Child, a published climber of solid stature.
Hopefully and rightly so, you would choose JL's work over Lynn's when making a direct comparison.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 19, 2006 - 11:11pm PT
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This thread has widened to include Stonemasters, Yabo, and LEB's inquiry as to the fundamental or particular nature of a climber's psyche and drive (last bit to paraphrase you Lois, if I have that right)...
Here's a somewhat telling picture of Yabo,
(Seen with Stonemasters Richard Harrison and Kevin Worral):
To my mind, Yabo was a bit feral. Here he perhaps displays the insecurity which Werner portrayed upthread. If not feral or insecure he at least looks fetching; probably he wanted a cigarette! The idea that Yabo leveraged his exploits as a climber to prove himself to the rest of us to "show that he was real" seems apt.
Yes, being real (and accepted) is something he was preoccupied with; I'm sure that drove him to do all kinds of silly things.
He said to me that there's a particular aspect to the nature of a place that presents itself as a super reality (no he was not on drugs at the time, but a lot of us fancied the readings of Carlos Castenada, "A Separate Reality" and all that Brujo stuff). He was characterizing the beauty of Yosemite at that moment and said that it was characteristically very real (well, ya, can you say National Park?).
There was a self-destructive aspect to the man, no doubt. I was once hanging around Camp Four (Yosemite) with Yabo and Werner -and Yabo was repeatedly flicking a pocket knife into a tree. Werner said to him something like, "Yabo Man, you are inflicting harm to that tree because you are unhappy and you have these destructive feelings for yourself".
A lot of us do this climbing thing to satiate a particular need for intensity. Climbing allows us to experience life intensely and artfully so as well. Perhaps Lois, you see similar expressions of drive on the ballet forum that you participate in, of course allowing for quite a few differences amongst the two groups.
Classical ballet practice involves marvelous movement skills, tons of rigor and near excruciating order (but is wonderful and light to watch). The classical rock climber, such as the Stonemaster, was seen to have a taste for the Bohemian and the unstructured, yet not without discipline. Comparisons tend to fall short yes, but the Stonemaster championed more a Martha Graham type of approach: artistic movement, eccentric flair, and unconventional improvisation (modern dance).
Perhaps many climbers have something to prove to others; I'd say that varies and has currency at least to the degree that we all enjoy support and recognition for our efforts. There is satisfaction in mastery and mastery bestwows upon us a sense of value in our efforts, so there is a hard one proof to be attributed to the self there.
To complete my unstructured ramble I'll throw in a quick bit about my motivation and climbing drive. I wasn't a Stonemaster per se but I was close at hand, so I've been thinking about this stuff and observing for quite some time. (I was in one of those pictures in John Long's recent Rock and Ice article about the Stonemasters).
My father raced sports cars in the 50's, so there is a risk-taking legacy there. When I was six or seven, he told me we were going to meet a man and have a talk. I asked what kind of man and he said a scientist. As it turns out he was taking me to see Stanley Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey". This was based on a novel by Arthur C. Clarke, who authored great science fiction.
My father told me that when I was in my 40's I would be just about the right age to do this astronaut stuff. I found at a young age that I had a certain aptitude for balance, yet this did not correlate to competitive sports. The long and short of it: I must say that climbing has blended and focused that loose collection of initial vectors and served me quite well.
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Slakkey
Trad climber
From a Quiet Place by the Lake
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Jun 19, 2006 - 11:21pm PT
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Lois,
Those Flimsy aluminum things are called a Portaledge. The are actually pretty comfy compaired to staying on hard rock. Sort of cool hanging on the side of a cliff on one of these things. They even make them for Two.
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JAK
Sport climber
Central NC
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Jun 19, 2006 - 11:26pm PT
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" I think it is important to give credit where credit is due: the killer photo of El Cap in red with the helicopter was taken by Mike Shore. He graciously allowed the Friends of YOSAR to use it on their site, and later it hit the cover of one of the mags. It is copyrighted and Mike does not want it used freely. Please respect his wishes.
Great photo, Mike"
I agree, it is a fantastic photo, and I hope no one misunderstood thinking I took it. Definitely not the case. All due credit should go to him, as he's an amazing climbing photographer.
Anyway, I just linked the picture through from Rock Climbing.com where he posted it, didn't save it, not hosting it myself, etc. I'm going to leave it up for the time being, but if I hear from Mike that he wants it taken down, I'll respect his wishes in that regard and edit a removal.
I just think that photo is an excellent one of El Cap with something that can provide definite scale - the nearby helo. In other pictures, it still doesn't seem like the Captain is that large, but when you put something like that next to it, you realize it really is a vertical sea of rock.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 20, 2006 - 11:24am PT
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Lois,
That last comment echoes something I wrote about Yabo's passing.
When Yabo left, Peter Mayfield's mother, Melody, wrote a poem and sent it to me. I wrote back to her and said that people don't completely go until we do; meaning they live on inside us as influencers, through their gifts of perspective, idea, sentiment.
I am quite existentialist in this regard. To me, spiritual strength and the great unknown notwithstanding, most all of our meaning is derived through direct experience. So albeit self referential, my experience of others is highly internal. John Long, Bachar, Werner and other major influencer's of my life's work live within my direct consciousness on a daily level through their examples.
So yes, Yabo lives, because I still feel him. I still do and see things as I follow some of his ways of apprehending life. To a very real degree I say we see with the eyes of others and you know that developementaly this has merit in terms of our upbringing and it's influence. Of course we are ultimately driving the bus and form our own unique perspectives, but the collective narrative we share is very strong.
Could you please direct me to Karl's comments Lois. Although drug abuse cannot ever be underestimated as a major component of mental hardship, I am not sure that it estimates or constitutes the majority of weight on Yabo's shoulders. I would call it a co--factor or more weight on the lever, but not the lever and not the fulcrum. It is said he sniffed some glue in his early teens; no doubt that is a horrible insult to the brain. In his 30's he seemed to have stabilizied quite a bit; nevertheless his tremendous angst was often tied to emotional ties with women. When you look at Werner's comments about insecurity and understand how great the esteem and belonging issues are for some men per their emotional ties with women -and then add it to their encounter with and estimation of artistic/athletic/career achievemnets in general, perhaps some of the drivers become clear.
Many of us, Yabo especialy, eschewed all but our climbing and our drives for belonging. Think about that as an imbalance in itself. The focus brings great things, inspiring achievement, but perhaps as a foundation it is lacking. I think many achievers are single minded, eccentric, and vulnerable as a consequence.
Cheers,
Here's to insight or the fun in pursuing it!
Yabo and I had a number of conversations in this regard;
Although sometimes perhaps conceptualy naive (who is not), he was earnest.
Roy
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 20, 2006 - 11:50pm PT
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Check on that stuff Lois,
I've known a good handful of Bi-polar folks and known them well. I've been right in the Maelstrom of the struggle with some. My sister is all of that.
Have you ever read Ken Wilber on Transpersonal Psychology? Its a model he essentially coined and championed.
Good point about Karl's statements.
Thanks for the words; I've lost quite a good number of very close partners and commune with them much in the way you describe, with the exception perhaps of not so many definite answers. Not so many questions. I tend to put out thanks. We are all we have. That said a little help is good and I'll look a little closer to your suggestion.
An open heart is a wonderful thing.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jun 21, 2006 - 12:14am PT
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What part of the brain exactly is not working properly?
What causes the mood swings of bipolar disorder?
Can one have a mild case?
Can one be tested for this disorder?
Juan
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 21, 2006 - 12:18am PT
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Lois
Tarbuster does not have to read Karls piece. He knows Yabo real well, much more than most folks here.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:14am PT
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Thanks Russ!
Care to join us for a Yabaho Seance?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:15am PT
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No seance for me.. he still haunts me.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:25am PT
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Gee Lois,
Thanks for putting the word out, it produced fast on the Karl Piece.
Although Werner was correct per my thorough familiarity with Yab, I will likely enjoy the read anyhow.
Hey Russ,
Er I mean Muss Man,
Yabo may haunt you, but that Liberace get up you trotted out at the JT reunion still haunts me dude.
Vance is mad, yes, but you are madder...
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:39am PT
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wow, i just took a peek at those yabo links.
that errett allen pic on the jtree thread is spoo-ooky!
i think i know what was going down there...
(errett lives out here btw, super guy)
the supertopo thread- thanks russ, that was spun out before i went down the bunny hole and landed here in supertopia.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 11:37am PT
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Dean Fidelman was/is known as "Bullwinkle".
During the late 70's, he took a bunch of very, very nice b&w photos of all of us. I recently posted a few of them on the early Stonemasters thread and he was a little miffed until he realized who I was. He had given me a bunch of them for a college project in the late 70's. We had a long talk about the Stonemasters era and such. The short of it is that he makes his living as a pro photographer and does not post here, as his energies are focused on cultivating his professional standing.
You can see the "Stone Nudes" Calender series for some of his work, some of the stuff in Lynn's book is his, and the recent Rock and Ice which features the Stonemaster article by John Long shows Dean's work.
Yabo being a stud?
Boys will be boys Lois.
Etymology is all of the above.
A lot of our behaviour was less than noble and often meant as an easy route to a good laugh. One aspect of setting out as an itinerant climber is the ability to be self entertained and that often falls upon the easy hours filled with silliness. While some climbers might play chess or hike around scouting new routes, others would heckle each other endlessly.
We had a lot of free time on our hands. Russ and I used to say we had the needs of men and the means of boys.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:32pm PT
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Yes that was pretty funny ROX and fairly right on.
I'll have to spool up on this one Lois.
Keep in mind the core Stonemasters was a small tight knit group and in many ways represented the cream; ROX is correct insofar as many others were essentially striving and doing neat stuff in the same manner.
I was influenced but not core, as I am just now soon to be 46, started climbing in '73, but really began to hit my stride in '77.
More later.
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2006 - 01:39pm PT
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5. What was it about this era and this particular group which made you so unique and garner such a place in "history" as it were. Obviously there were men who climbed before you in the 40s 50s 60s - Obviously men (and now women, even!) climbed after you 80s, 90s etc. So what was it then which gave you all such fame and "grandeur?" How exactly did you garner this lore which now seems to surround you regarding those time.
There were a number of eras important in Yosemite climbing history. The Stonemaster era is just more prevalant here (and is also probably the last "age" that had a disctintive local group of high caliber climbers, who often lived in the Valley).
Here is my biased summation:
The 1930s bringing modern roped climbing, and ascents like Royal Arches and Higher Cathedral Spire.
The 1940s Further refinement of big wall climbing and ethics, Lost Arrow Chimney, Steck-Salathe route.
The 1950s to 1960s (The Golden Age) The most impressive walls first done, Half Dome, El Capitan, and an increased move towards free climbing goals.
The 1970s (Stonemasters). Even more free climbing at an amazing new level. First free ascents on previous aid climbs (Astroman) and in a day ascents of big walls (The Nose).
The 1980s. Lycra and sport climbing come about. A little bit of climbing's soul dies. LOL. But Bachar and Croft do The Nose and Half Dome in a day.
The 90s and beyond. diversification, bouldering, hard aid. First Free ascent of the Nose and more.
They are all standing on the shoulders of giants. Each generation is inspired by the previous one.
There are some good books on other eras (e.g. Camp 4 about the golden age). But my favorite book is The Vertical World of Yosemite by Rowell. Articles and photos from many great ascents starting with the second ascent of Half Dome in 1884 and ending at the end of the Golden Age in the early 1970s.
As I mentioned earlier, I'd love to see Largo dedicate a whole book to the Stonemasters, ala Camp 4.
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nutjob
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:58pm PT
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seems such a trivial point after the serious insight, but back to the orientation of the photos, and then waxing to bigger issues...
I pondered the orientation of my own photos from up high, and I've concluded they are both correct. Just a matter of perspective. If your back/butt is to the rock and you're looking out or down, seeing the ground on top makes sense. If you're facing in to the rock (i.e. forehead toward the stone while looking down), then it makes sense to portray the picture with ground on bottom and it looks more overhanging. No trickery here, just go with what represents the moment best. We have a 2D picture of a 3D event, and anything that helps convey that reality is fair game in my book.
Now for some delving into people who have strong attitudes on this... I see a pattern here I've been immersed in most of my life and it seems to parallel a common theme in "rock climbing culture" if you can call it that. People who comment on the "rotated photo" thing have issues with self-aggrandizement, or struggle with how their actions affect whether or not they are accepted by others.
Most climbers eschew fashion or self-aggrandizement as lame or lowly pursuits. Ironically, one thing that most seems to label climbers is not wanting to be labeled. The anti-fashion is binding and restrictive fashion itself. Being purposefully low-key, giving low estimates of climbing ratings (in partial hopes that others will come along and say "phew! that was stout! you are burly!"), is part of trying to be cool and get acceptance from peers.
After moving a lot when I was a kid I was planted with a new bunch of folks from 5th grade on, I was acutely sensitive to being accepted. After a rough time in junior high, I reached a point of saying fVck it and stopped trying to be accepted, and ironically this is when I became widely accepted (precisely when I stopped giving a shit).
I think the underlying model here is this: acceptance can be considered like a commodity for borrowing/trading just like money. Most people, feeling a shortage of the commodity "acceptance", want to associate with others where they will get it, rather than have to give it. So displaying a blatant need for acceptance ("do you like me? do you like me? please like me!!") pushes people a way, and saying "fVck acceptance" makes it seem like you accept yourself and draws others toward you because you might sluff off some of that extra acceptance you already seem to have. Now, you can honestly accept yourself and really be "cool", or you can be a smart person who figures out this system and "games" it to trick others to accept you (or maybe you're gaming it out of a sincere effort to move toward the goal of who you want to be). Typical pattern in the gaming scenario is acting like you don't care, externally acting like the "cool" person but inwardly craving acceptance. I'll go out on a limb as an armchair psychologist with no knowledge of the famous climbing personalities other that what I've read, and say many fall into this category of struggling with acceptance, being smart enough to figure out the game, and trying to twist it to their advantage without fixing the underlying real need for self acceptance.
I'm not denying other factors or motivations, just highlighting a prominent one.
Me for example, I struggle with the awareness of my craving for acceptance, but I try to keep it at bay as one of the many signal feeds that I don't necessarily need to act on. But it is a factor in my posts here (and maybe to a *very* small extent my climbing); for me, the bigger urge these days is trying to relive times when I climbed alot and the pleasure I derived from that, because I've made other life choices that limit my climbing time at present (career family etc.).
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2006 - 02:14pm PT
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Great post nutjob.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 22, 2006 - 01:02am PT
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that was a nice thought stream nutjob.
lois, the mags started doing this thing with turning the photos like that about 10 odd years ago.
like werner said way upthread: it is really not right, because we know it is a crafty manipulation, a simple turn of the screw to get more feel.
it is for the most part not so much incorrect, because perspective can be argued, but contextualy it is unconventional, feels hyped, and looks un-natural. thus nutjob's thoughts.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 22, 2006 - 01:08am PT
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lois,
it also occurs to me that no one has addressed your original on topic question about the significance of Lynn's free ascent of the Nose vis a vis the guys not doing it?
well, i can tell you she is a superlative athlete and is off the charts in our sport, like a michael jordan.
she has also been one of the few people on the globe to really garner a living as a pure rock climber; sure guides make a modest living, but in an international vein, late 80's and throughout the 90's and perhaps to date she's really tagged it.
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nutjob
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jun 22, 2006 - 02:23pm PT
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Thanks for the acceptance! As seemingly inconsequential part of my life as my intellect tells me this forum is, my emotional self is basking in the praise ;)
I took a basic climbing-centric point for granted:
Lois, by *orienting* (note I'm not saying 'rotating') the picture such that ground is on bottom, it simply makes the rock appear more steep. This implies the route is more difficult to climb, and hence the person in the photo is a better climber (a.k.a. worthy of more acceptance, and the publisher of a magazine, by mere association, worthy of more acceptance and $$).
I contend that if a climb is vertical or very nearly so, the orientation of the photo is ethically neutral. If the climb is substantially less than vertical (e.g. "slabby" meaning at a less steep angle), then turning the picture upside down really does give a different impression of the nature of the climb, and this is point that most climbers are making re: it being a problem.
The challenge is that when you are on a climb, even a slab that is not so steep, it seems a hell of a lot steeper to you than to people looking on the ground. So should the picture represent the psychological view of the person on the climb, or the more mundane view of the person on the ground? Note El Cap is a special case because even the "mundane" parts are far from mundane except for a small minority of climbers (and even among these elites, the mundane-ness they express may be the clothing they wear to garner peer acceptance rather than their natural inner feelings while on the rock).
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 22, 2006 - 02:50pm PT
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The Stonemasters were unique because they helped spawn a community wide stoke for adventure not see before or since. It is probably true that said stoke rippled out from a core group like so many seismic waves, but everyone touced by the energy added some of their own so the movement was very much a group effort shared by all. That was the thing--everyone with a pair of shoes was invited to participate because back then we were all on the A Train. People like Roy (Tarbuster) say they were not core Stonemasters but thatīs news to me. Once folks started to individualize the Stonemasters as their own gig, the gig was basically over.
Nobody owned it. Everyone owned it.
JL
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 22, 2006 - 05:41pm PT
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John,
That's a very inclusive, progressive, and productive characterization.
Thanks for offering some clarity and for rounding things out.
Cheers,
Roy
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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Jun 22, 2006 - 07:55pm PT
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dang Fet, you mean to tell me a little bit of soul died while "this guy" was around?
Too bad it doesn't show the Verdon 'free solo' parts...
I'm not even gonna mention another "punk in the gym" (for now)...
...(or are you just talkin' "Continental" climbin'?)
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the Fet
climber
Earth
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2006 - 09:38pm PT
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I didn't know Jeff Spicoli climbs.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 23, 2006 - 01:09am PT
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and i'm not embarrassed to say that spicoli is my hero.
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| Messages 1 - 64 of total 64 in this topic |
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