Vindicated on the health care cost criminals

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Jeffrey VanMiddlebrook

Boulder climber
Mountain View, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 19, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
So some of you might be familiar with Dr. Mercola's website. Very worthwhile website to add to one's top-five websites to join.

My lady is an MD and she turned me on to Dr. Mercola. This week is an article and accompanying video regarding the truth to why health care costs in America are out of control, and who the real culprits are and why ObamaCare is just more of the same good-old-boy sh#t that continues to line the pockets of the real culprits -- and it's not the insurance companies!

Time magazine has a front page article regarding this matter, and its author is in the Dr. Mercola video. The guy says everything I've been saying for the past 20 years. Vindicated at last!!

The only way anyone gets into the Oval Office is he has to be a boot-licking lackey of the power brokers behind the scenes, and Obama is no exception. Oh, sorry to burst some knee-jerk liberal bubbles, but this is the irrefutable truth. Go back as far as you can through the succession of presidencies and you'll see they were all whores, no exceptions, irrespective of party affiliation. This is why we will never have fair and affordable health care in America.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 19, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
I'm interested, but:
but this is the irrefutable truth.

Lost yer street cred right there. There are very few irrefutable truths in this world and even fewer in politics.

I don't follow folks who speak in irrefutable truths unless it's ironclad science. Even that is semi-rare.
this just in

climber
north fork
Mar 19, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
Survival speaking irrefutable truth.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Mar 19, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
Let's start a new thread for every time in life we had the opportunity to say "I told you so."
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 19, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
So, never having heard of this Mercola, I did a bit of looking for info. I'd be the last to say that Wikipedia is the source of "irrefutable truth", but their entry on Mr. Mercola is quite interesting, and, if nothing else, makes any claim that Mercola himself speaks absolute truth seem more than a bit far-fetched.

Here's just one example

Mercola has questioned whether HIV is the cause of AIDS. He has argued instead that the manifestations of AIDS (including opportunistic infections and death) may be the result of "psychological stress" brought on by the belief that HIV is harmful.[28] Mercola.com has featured positive presentations of the claims of AIDS denialists, a fringe group which denies the existence of AIDS and/or the role of HIV in causing it.[28][29]

The scientific community considers the evidence that HIV causes AIDS to be conclusive[30][31] and rejects AIDS-denialist claims as pseudoscience based on conspiracy theories,[32] faulty reasoning, cherry picking, and misrepresentation of mainly outdated scientific data.[30][31][33]

Edit: The wiki article is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Mercola
Lloyd Campbell

Social climber
St. Cloud, MN
Mar 19, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
WTF is it about dudes like this that pop up on this site. If they're not involved in a complete spraydown about what an all-encompassing renaissance guy they are, they're posting bullsh$t about every thought that occurs to them? Meanwhile, we're left wondering if their brain cells are so far apart they have to yell at each other.
abrams

Sport climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:05pm PT
Well sure its all about getting as much money for themselves as possible.

Washington DC is flooded with cash. Mansions are going up everywhere within commute distance and its the one place in the country where people regularly buy luxury cars with cash.




couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
I thought that the process of how the healthcare bill was passed was seriously flawed.

What they did with the base closings should have been the model utilized for healthcare. Get the experts to design the best system and let congress vote YES or NO.

Instead, it got massaged, changed resubmitted, reworked, resubmitted again and tossed out repeatedly to all of the special interests like meat to the lions to maul or add and subtract as they wished. The end result is that it will be terribly costly to fix any broken parts as they appear, if it is possible to do so at all.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
I thought that the process of how the healthcare bill was passed was seriously flawed.


Only one in a VERY long line of flaws in American healthcare.

Thank gawd something got passed, at the very least to move the damn conversation forward.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
I think they know all of this very well. I also think they know of the gloom ahead for economies world wide. And i do beleive that is the reason for concentration camps that set empty being built, as well as grave sites and fema coffins. Drones and urban assault vehicles, small arms and massive amounts of ammo being purchased WAY beyond what was done in the past.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:17pm PT
Whoa, Ron, get 'er back on the tracks man!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
ooops..
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:18pm PT
Is it just me or does Jeffrey VanMiddlebrook sound a lot like the LEB-thing. I am not saying they are the same person, but could easily be siblings. All evidence so far points to this guy becoming just as big of an annoyance as Lois... sorry, Jeff. Just sayin'.
John M

climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
Meanwhile, we're left wondering if their brain cells are so far apart they have to yell at each other.

That line right there was worth this whole thread. That is entirely too funny. I wish just once in my life I could come up with a line like that.

As for the OPs point. No doubt you have to whore yourself to become the president. The question isn't wether you whore yourself, its how much of yourself you have to sell to get in and how much integrity you have left over to keep from being a total bitch.

Case in point.

Romney = total whore bitch. Sold out a long long time ago.

Obama = partial whore bitch with some possibility he still remembers what its like to be the underdog, the minority.

The problem is the whole system is sold and to get any good one has to sell 90 percent of it out.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
double cross the vacant and the bored,, their not sure just what we have in store.



rrrroger mucous ringworm over!
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
its the one place in the country where people regularly buy luxury cars with cash.

Mebbe you should take a trip to Malibu/Brentwood/Beverly Hills/Corona Del Mar/Rancho Santa Fe/Fairbanks Ranch/Silicon Valley/Las Vegas/etc, etc, etc...
abrams

Sport climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
Keeping ill people alive is expensive.
Warehousing the elderly is expensive.
Obamacare is expensive.

Tell me something I don't know.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 19, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
What we have is a disease management system, not a healthcare system.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
That you would believe anything Mercola puts out pretty much undercuts your entire position.
new world order2

climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
Keeping ill people alive is expensive.
Warehousing the elderly is expensive.
Obamacare is expensive.

Not much longer until euthanasia clinics start popping up on every street corner. At first voluntary. Then mandatory.

Are you clone worthy, or just another useless eater?

So goes the new world order.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
New World Order, it's gotta be a drag to be in fear all the time eh?
new world order2

climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
Pfffttt.....I'm not "in fear".

Just trying to wake up the sheeple.

What's it like to live in denial, survival? And where would you like your RFID implanted?

Or are you going to vehemently deny that will ever happen, as so many here have?

photo not found
Missing photo ID#294969
abrams

Sport climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
Carrying a smart phone around is a better spy device than any rfid implant.
new world order2

climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
The smart phone is the precursor to the RFID.

Just wait till Google glasses arrive on the scene. Can you say....Nazi Brownshirts?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
NWO, I think I'd prefer my chip in the head of the old johnson. That way the signal from your sister should be plenty strong.

Me and my brothers will be coming for you first.
PerlonHex

Sport climber
Orange County, Ca.
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
HI Jeff! It has been a long time! You still into that naked hiking thing? LOL COOL!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Hi Fatty!

just can't stay away can you?

you and Lois still tight?
new world order2

climber
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
You're leading with your little head, survival.

Good luck to you.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
Same to you down in your bunker.
coz

Gym climber
Belmont
Mar 19, 2013 - 04:50pm PT
For sure, NWO, has a weed card, probably sit in a dark room on sunny days, to afraid to leave the bong.

It's very scary out there.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Mar 19, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
Having a proffit component hooked up with health care will always be problematic. Problem is that the vast majority never do much of anything without money being involved, and the more dough, the more "real" and legitimate the work becomes. It's a mess, and pits human nature against itself in difficult ways. No easy solution.

JL
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 19, 2013 - 06:24pm PT
Like myself, Weil promotes integrative medicine (IM) as a better alternative to the current system. IM offers a combination of conventional medical therapies and complementary or alternative therapies "for which there is some high-quality scientific evidence of safety and effectiveness."


so his approach is to layer CM ON TOP OF the standard approach.

Amazingly, Weil and Mercola are practitioners of CM, and make a fortune from the sale of vitamins, etc.

The concept of "for which there is some high-quality scientific evidence of safety and effectiveness" would be good, except that what he calls "high-quality scientific evidence", and what actual scientists call that is dramtically different. Scientific evidence is not that which is published without evidence in chiropractic journals. Just because it is printed does not mean something is worthwhile.

Actually, this whole thread seems to be a shill for Mercola, who does not have a license to practice in Ca.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 19, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Mar 19, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
Did the OP really post a link from his MD wife about a doctor who believes AIDS is a product of your own mind...

What the hell...how do people like that even get into medicine...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 19, 2013 - 07:26pm PT
Science-based Medicine: 9 Reasons to Completely Ignore Joseph Mercola
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Mar 19, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
Could be LEB. Nobody can type as fast as her, and also "feels" a like woman...

who are you Jeff?
Hankster

Social climber
Golden, CO
Mar 19, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
WTF is it about dudes like this that pop up on this site. If they're not involved in a complete spraydown about what an all-encompassing renaissance guy they are, they're posting bullsh$t about every thought that occurs to them?

I think that's me!!....
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Mar 24, 2013 - 11:57am PT
What ever happened to ol' Jeffery van . . .

Just another flash in the pan!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 24, 2013 - 12:02pm PT


"Not much longer until euthanasia clinics start popping up on every street corner"...

I fuking HOPE that is true...

Sure would be nice knowing that there is a HUMANE way out that fuking door...

Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Mar 24, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
And where would you like your RFID implanted?

Just got mine.... They stuck it in my new drivers license!!!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 24, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Move to Washington...!
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 24, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
I discovered a new concept, doctors who hate insurance and refuse to deal with it. http://www.southparkdoctor.com

Friend of mine told me about her. I made an appointment online, saw her later that same day. Got a prescription and a referral for xrays. The xrays at 150 bucks cost more then her 35 minute consulatation. She has no staff and will make house calls on her bike for regular patients. Consider this doctor if you live in San DIego and do not have insurance.

Waiting to see Dr. Z.
Waiting to see Dr. Z.
Credit: Jon Beck
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 24, 2013 - 04:35pm PT

As cool as it appears (the no Insurance Doc above), I do wonder if there isn't some reason other than being a good person, for not involving the insurance companies...


EDITED:

If she is the REAL DEAL, then fuking A, super GUD for her!!!...



hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 24, 2013 - 05:51pm PT
I've had Dr.s give me discounts for not having insurance. Had a Dr. in Mammoth who charged a dollar a minute, no lie, what was his name? Wore cowboy boots. That was 15 years ago.

Ortho in Texas did not even charge me for office visits, just x rays. After I broke my arm and was sent home from the ER with a separated AC joint, I think he felt bad even though it wasn't him who did not look at my x rays.

Pretty funny at my first visit, 3 days after I broke my arm (horse).
I told him what they told me in the ER and he paused and asked if I was in a hurry. The hospital was right next to his office building. He ran over there and chewed out that ER DR.! His big concern was loss of blood flow to the head of my humerus. It has turned out alright, I think. He said it would take 5 or more years before I knew if that arm bone was dead and it was 10 years ago.

I won't pay into this healthcare scam. And Obama Care? I'll believe it when I see it. Not heard a peep about particulars. If it's over $100 a month, it won't be affordable to the folks who need it most, like me.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Mar 24, 2013 - 06:05pm PT

"I've had Dr.s give me discounts for not having insurance"...

My Doc, Dr Fist, gives me a real GUD deal since she knows I am close to being a broke climbing bum...

Cool lady!!!... (Just wish her fingers/hands were MUCH smaller)


"And Obama Care? I'll believe it when I see it. Not heard a peep about particulars. If it's over $100 a month, it won't be affordable to the folks who need it most, like me."...

I'm WITH YOU on that one!!!...

happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Mar 24, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
I was climbing with some people today and one of them works in an agency which assists people with health insurance. She said that insurance agencies have told her that we should expect to see insurance premiums nearly double once the new health care system kicks in.

She said that in the past few years, premium costs have gone up like 9% and 11%each year(I may be recalling the numbers incorrectly), but in 2014, they will be increases of like 20%.

Reason being, the insurers, being *forced* to provide insurance to whomever comes to them for coverage will mean they will skew their numbers and they will be covering more people who will likely be needing health costs covered. Since they must make their profits....that means increased rates.


couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 24, 2013 - 09:43pm PT
Sad to say Julia, that I expect you will be sorely disappointed at how much you will (that's YOU WILL) be paying when the government health care bill fires up. BTW, you HAVE TO pay, no outs unless you are impoverished. Otherwise you'd be hosing those who did pay in. We are averaging paying slightly over $250 a person and it's damned good coverage currently. I put that in for historical reasons. I suspect that future payees will think that's a misprint. It isn't.

Sorry.

"I won't pay into this healthcare scam. And Obama Care? I'll believe it when I see it. Not heard a peep about particulars. If it's over $100 a month, it won't be affordable to the folks who need it most, like me."
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 24, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
That can't be true! If I can't afford $250 a month, no way in hell, then how can others do it? And the only $250 policy I found had a $20,000 deductible. That's right, 20k! That means the insurance is worthless, so why pay? And yeah, I've been looking into it for years now. The best policy I found was $500 a month with a $2k deductible. That would be about 30% of my monthly income. Not happening.
I'm paying $250 a month now to the dentist and past Dr.'s when it should be going in the bank.

Savings? WTF is that?

And no couchmaster, I do not HAVE to pay. I will become a criminal, like at least a couple million other Americans, if this happens like you say, so you HAVE to be wrong! And where did you get those figures anyway? I can find NOTHING on line that talks about how much this health care will cost.

I remember when car insurance went mandatory and the big scare then about how no one would be able to afford it. That turned out OK. but I know times are different and politicians only care about the corporations that give them money.

What is impoverished anyway? As far as I can see it's anything under 2k a month for 1 person, and that never included $250 a month mandatory payment!

Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 24, 2013 - 10:53pm PT
As cool as it appears (the no Insurance Doc above), I do wonder if there isn't some reason other than being a good person, for not involving the insurance companies...

If she has to do the paperwork for the insurance company she will have to hire staff, rent a bigger more expensive space, it is not how she wants to practice medicine. She spends quality time with patients. I read the newspaper articles about her, she is a very compassionate person. Sadly there are not a lot more like her.

As pointed out, it is ridiculous for a healthy person to pay 500 a month with a 2,500 deductible. I plan on paying the penalty when mandatory insurance kicks in in January next year

Beginning in 2014, if you are uninsured, not exempt from the new mandate, and refuse to sign up for health care coverage, how much will you owe Uncle Sam?
The health care law sets out a formula to determine your penalty, which will be assessed and collected by the IRS as part of your federal income taxes.
The penalty will be the greater of a flat dollar amount per person, OR a percentage of your taxable income. For dependents under 18, the penalty is half the individual amount.
The annual penalty is capped at an amount roughly equal to the cost of the national average premium for a qualified health plan — in other words you cannot be forced to pay more than it would have cost to buy a plan in the first place.
Flat dollar amount for individuals: $95 in 2014; $325 in 2015; and $695 in 2016; increases indexed to inflation after that, subject to a cap.

There is a cost calculator here http://www.coveredca.com/resources/calculating-the-cost/
hossjulia

Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
Mar 24, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
Thanks for that link, it proved me right! I needed that today.

At around 20k a year, I'll get enough tax credits, which are calculated in your monthly premium. Around 100 a month will be my cost.

I think this might be the happiest I've been all day.
Tarzan

Trad climber
Vegas
Mar 25, 2013 - 12:10am PT
New Goldrush..invest in any company that manufactures or has anything to do with replacement of knees. Artificial knees..that’s right, fatten up the welefare mob..get them all swol up then when they can’to get from their hoopty to the door of Walmart to buy shitfood for them and their many kids with unknown fathers on food stamps they so richly deserve, we get them taxpayer supplied new knees! Everybody wins and they get a handicap sticker and can park closer to the door! God, I Love this country!
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Mar 25, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Wow, maybe they'll even pay for a brain for you, racist.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 25, 2013 - 01:08am PT
So long as private insurance companies are involved in basic healthcare it will always just be shades of scamming. And their involvement is what makes Obamacare little better no government involvement. There is absolutely no legitimate role for private insurance companies in basic, universal healthcare. Let them sell private insurance above the level of basic, universal care to businesses who what to incent their employees and for those more wealthy individuals, but that's it.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 25, 2013 - 02:07am PT
The percentage of our health care spending that goes to profit for the private sector has tripled in the last decade. That is what is wrong with our system. Similar to what happened when we tried to go free market with our electricity in California, we got gamed big-time. If the corporate medical world likes the "reform" you can be damned sure the consumer is going to get screwed.
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