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ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Apr 1, 2013 - 08:23am PT
Skully, I was there from 74 to 76, in the Army working as an air traffic controller. I know that's back in the dark ages, but we all took the threat very seriously. We went on high alert many times, one particularly when a US soldier was killed by a North Korean guard at the DMZ.

I don't think most people realize just how many troops they have so close to Seoul. The Oijongbu corridor is a big flat valley leading straight to Seoul, that the N. Korean hordes would charge South through. When we were there, the estimates of US and S. Korean casualties in the first 48 hrs was upwards of 40%, for the troops stationed near the border. That huge mass of N. Korean troops is only 30 to 40 miles from Seoul, like having dozens of battalions in Boulder, aimed at Denver.

As for the starving soldiers not being able to fight, ever heard of Chairman Mao's army, the Russian revolution, Cuba, French revolution? Hungry people fight like.....well, like they've got nothing to lose, and they don't. I'm sure we would win out in the end, but there'd be too many lost on both sides. Ugh!, sometimes I hate humans!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 1, 2013 - 09:41am PT
First thing i thought when i saw the pic Chaz! Foreign campaigns? nooo,,Silver stars?


Hi Ron, I'm back...heh heh...

No, they leave the "foreign campaigns" to peaceful countries like the peace loving people of the USA.

Since the Korean War? Let's see...ummm...Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Kuwait, Iraq, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan. Did I miss any?

You're right, we gotta keep these crazy nut job psycho war mongers on a short leash man!!! G'damn N. Korean war mongers anyway, eh?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 1, 2013 - 09:42am PT
Nice place to visit but i wouldn't want to live there.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Apr 1, 2013 - 10:14am PT
Donald Gregg was US Ambassador to S Korea and CIA station chief.
Don't ya hate to read stuff by somebody who knows what fer?

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _


Reaching out to North Korea

Obama showed on his Middle East trip to power of direct presidential involvement. He should employ that same sort of diplomacy toward Pyongyang.


By Donald Gregg
April 1, 2013



President Obama's recent Middle East trip showed what good things can result from thoughtful, direct presidential involvement. The president addressed young Israelis, reassured allies in the region and brokered an Israeli apology to Turkey for a deadly raid on a flotilla attempting to take supplies to Gaza.


The president should employ that same sort of diplomacy toward North Korea.

An increasingly dangerous confrontation is building between the United States and North Korea. The outrageous rhetoric pouring out of Pyongyang makes it difficult to do anything more than dismiss North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Un. But abandoning diplomacy would be extremely dangerous. The North Koreans are convinced that nuclear weapons are the only thing keeping them safe from a U.S. attack, and recent flights of nuclear-capable U.S. warplanes over the Korean peninsula only hardened that conviction.



As distasteful as it may seem, we need to talk directly with the North Koreans. They will not give up their nuclear weapons at this juncture, and for the United States to demand that they do so as a precondition for talks will only lead to greater tension, including the possibility of a military explosion. Would it not be better to negotiate a peace treaty?

The George W. Bush administration took the position that engagement with Pyongyang would reward bad behavior, and that seems to be the approach of the Obama administration too. But though the North Koreans often sound like belligerent lunatics, there are certainly many reasons to engage, particularly on a peace treaty, an idea Kim Jong Un might well embrace.

I have been dealing with Korean issues for 40 years, since I arrived as the CIA's chief of station in Seoul. Later, from 1989 to 1993, I served as ambassador to South Korea. And time and again I saw diplomacy work where confrontation would have failed.

In August 1973, U.S. Ambassador Philip Habib learned that opposition leader Kim Dae-jung had been kidnapped in Tokyo and was on a small boat about to be thrown into the sea. It was widely assumed (and later confirmed) that South Korea's intelligence service, the KCIA, was responsible. But Habib did not jump into his sedan and confront autocratic President Park Chung-hee with an accusation. Habib first wrote Park a letter, giving him time to construct a response that kept Kim alive and enabled Park to deflect responsibility for the kidnapping.

In December 1980, I witnessed close up a confrontation that failed. Kim Dae-jung had, at that point, been sentenced to death on trumped-up charges of treason. Outgoing President Jimmy Carter sent Defense Secretary Harold Brown and me to Seoul to confront South Korea's president, Chun Doo-hwan, on the matter. Our instructions were to tell him, essentially, to release Kim "or else."

This approach failed utterly, and Kim was on the verge of execution. The incoming Reagan administration, led by Richard V. Allen, was astute enough to offer Chun a visit to the White House to keep Kim alive. In order to see Reagan, Chun released Kim, who went on to become South Korea's president and receive the Nobel Peace Prize.

Granted, these experiences were in South Korea, a place very different from its northern neighbor. But diplomacy works around the world. We can't simply order Kim Jong Un to abandon his nuclear ambitions. Dialogue is needed, and Obama should reach out to those who have negotiated successfully with North Korea to help craft an approach.

Next month, South Korean President Park Geun-hye will visit Washington to meet with Obama. I was in Seoul in 1974 when a North Korean agent trying to kill her father, President Park Chung-hee, fired and missed, killing her mother instead. Still, Park Geun-hye visited Pyongyang in 2001 and met with then-President Kim Jong Il. When I congratulated her for doing so, her response was: "We must look to the future with hope, not to the past with bitterness."

Park calls her policy toward North Korea "trustpolitik," and she would undoubtedly be pleased to find thinking compatible with that policy in the White House, as would China's new president, Xi Jinping, who has already called Park, offering to help ease tension between the two Koreas.

The alternative to diplomacy is escalating conflict, and that would be a terrible mistake on the Korean peninsula. Negotiating a lasting peace is the only sensible approach.

Donald Gregg, the U.S. ambassador to South Korea from 1989 to 1993, was CIA station chief in that country from 1973 to 1975. He served as national security advisor to Vice President George H.W. Bush from 1982 to 1988.


Copyright 2013, Los Angeles Times

Reaching out to North Korea
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 1, 2013 - 10:25am PT
Hey Survival! Yes WE had some foreign campaigns.. But whut about N Korea??

I guess they must call "campaigns" when they attack a boat (1 individual boat) r something of that nature. Or they are all clerical ribbons..?? They got more salad than Patton!


edit: But do we take them seriously? I would imagine we once thought that of Bin waden too. If this were 10 years ago, id say hell no. But ther is a lot of changes the korean govt is going through at the hands of kim-ding-aling. He is ousting the old guard of his father- which is a worry to Washington as they loose whatever familiarity they had with them. They hold onto the "nukes are our life" much like the USA uses Nukes as a world safety ploy. We have shown more than common restrain in the use of nuclear tactical weaponry. Korea on the other hand now threatens global war even if they cant deliver.
WyoRockMan

Trad climber
Flank of the Bighorns
Apr 1, 2013 - 10:31am PT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 1, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 1, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
the invasion has begun!

pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 2, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
Lol great pics.
Thanks for the reply Skully. I'm sure u can understand it much better than I.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Apr 2, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Ron nice photo but he is looking the wrong way, he should be looking up.

Credit: lostinshanghai

That's going to be the biggest surprise: That X-37B[3]newly secretive unmanned aircraft that stays in orbit above the target for 270 days can get down to 110 miles in orbit just above and deliver "Rods [Tungsten] from God" that will wake him up. But he will not be waking up here on Earth.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Apr 3, 2013 - 10:22am PT
Why Austin?

It is highly improbable that the missile attack plan was something slapped together last month. Odds are good the cities are genuine, calculated targets. Honolulu makes immediate sense. The North's missiles can already hit it, and it is President Barack Obama's hometown.

Los Angeles is a huge target area, ideal for missiles of questionable accuracy. Though not yet within range, it could be shortly. LA has millions of residents plus the icon targets of Hollywood and Disneyland. Washington is a no-brainer. North Korea can't hit the city, but threatening it puts nuclear bull's-eyes on U.S. leaders and America's capital. It's a personal and public tit for tat.

But why Austin?

The literal answer, and literal target, is South Korea's Samsung Electronics Co.'s Samsung Austin Semiconductor (SAS) manufacturing facility, located on Austin's north side. However, pinpointing the hometown of this facility is agitprop excess, for it tells us that the North Korean regime is aware of its own immense and tragic failure. Moreover, the thugs are ashamed.

North Korea's real target, which the literal target represents, is South Korea's demonstrable success. Samsung and a hundred other South Korean enterprises with global reputations and reach demonstrate South Korea economic power and organizational strength. North Korea, a Communist Workers' Paradise, is a starving prison state, and its leaders are profoundly embarrassed.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 3, 2013 - 10:36am PT
boots on the N Korean ground...



US special forces 'parachuted into North Korea'
US and South Korean special forces have been parachuting into North Korea to gather intelligence about underground military installations, according to a senior US officer.

US and South Korean forces work closely together

ARTICLE
US denies reports it parachuted soldiers into North Korea

ARTICLE
North Korea boasts of defeating US with 'single blow'

ARTICLE
US warns North Korea to refrain from 'hostile acts'

ARTICLE
North Korea warns US of retaliation over scrapped food aid
6:00AM BST 29 May 2012
Army Brigadier General Neil Tolley, commander of US special forces in South Korea, told a conference held in Florida last week that Pyongyang had built thousands of tunnels since the Korean war, The Diplomat reported.
"The entire tunnel infrastructure is hidden from our satellites," Gen Tolley said. "So we send (South Korean) soldiers and US soldiers to the North to do special reconnaissance."
"After 50 years, we still don't know much about the capability and full extent" of the underground facilities," he said, in comments reported by the National Defense Industrial Association's magazine on its website.
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Apr 3, 2013 - 10:49am PT
Credit: TwistedCrank
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Apr 3, 2013 - 10:51am PT
Imagine the North Koreans invading the South. Once they secured the area, what would they do, and who would do it? They have no infrastructure or leadership to do anything but ask for food. How would they sustain an invasion? Do they rally think the rest of the world would let them keep the south? We will never see a north and south conflict.

JL

ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Apr 3, 2013 - 10:54am PT
I reckon an assassination / coup is much more likely than any invasion. The generals are probably the only people in the country that get three squares a day-- why would they want to face certain destruction?
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 3, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
Why Austin?

Because we rawk!!!
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Apr 3, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
Check out the Daily Show for some fun on North Korea.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 3, 2013 - 01:46pm PT
JL,, you speak common sense..However~~~


Kimding-aling hasnt as yet shown any of such character. Hence, weve got boots on the ground there.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Apr 3, 2013 - 02:27pm PT
boots on the N Korean ground

ron i heard that china moved some troops but the N.K have not. i was also told that the ceasfire included china in the deal some 50 yrs ago.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Apr 3, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
Yep that ceasfire was signed by China, so kim ding-a-ling, in nulifying that ceasfire ALSO include China.. The Chinese WONT say squat - but they will act you can bet. Its more stickier by the day. But one thing that shoukld be clear to us all is getting shed of chinese ties and investments.
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