Commie Guns

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Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 6, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
They made some good ones. (OK should have said "formerly Commie")

I just picked up a cheap (cost = less than current cost of 600 rds of ammo) 9mm made by a 40 year old Bulgarian company
http://www.arcus-bg.com/

the 98DA takes best features of a Browning Hi-Power, a CZ 75, and an IMI Baby Eagle and shamelessly rips them off.

The DA trigger pull is stout, but SA is very sweet, crisp and about 5lbs.

I haven't tried it out but I took it apart inspecting fit and finish and I'm really impressed.
I now have guns from more than a dozen different countries (my excuse for buying it).



A friend of mine who is a gunsmith took apart a Norinco 1911 and made a similar observation.


Any theories as to why the commies, who couldn't seem to compete with free enterprise, still made great guns?
The greatest battle rifle of all time was designed by a guy who never made a ruble off of the 57 million plus units made.




edit;
knew you'd like it, moano
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Mar 6, 2013 - 10:29pm PT
Yippie, another gun thread. Thanks, Toker.

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Mar 6, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
Credit: kennyt
Gary

Social climber
Right outside of Delacroix
Mar 6, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
Coolest weapon ever made:
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 6, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
1 word, 1 word for the graduate: VEPR 12.

It's a 12 ga shotgun built on the AK platform by Russian weapon mfg Molot.

Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Ron,

Have you ever actually killed someone with all the ballistic acumen you have and puked after for it accordingly ?

Or do you just like to target shoot and pretend ?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 6, 2013 - 11:16pm PT
Jim, my last shooting partner made three nice groups in round bullseye targets, but didn't want to fire at a silhouette reactive target because according to her "it looks too much like a person".

You are projecting your assumptions.

Not everybody who has guns has homicidal fantasies.


So leave me alone, I gotta get back to watching Red Dawn,..






edit for kenny; they own guns. It might NOT be safe.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
I gotta get back to watching Red Dawn,..

Is it safe to say that most people who own guns share that fantasy?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
Toker...The Ruskies have a long history of being invaded...Remember that short frog and the altar boy with the funny caterpillar under his nose...? ...After decades of this harassment , the commies finally got fed up and fought back....
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
ol ticklikker tu
ol ticklikker tu
Credit: Ron Anderson

aint no commie gun,, just pure kentucky half stock..
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:32pm PT
So !

You're a target shooter who would be troubled accepting the deep cost of what steel and wood people killers are truly made for.

This thread ain't about a deer hunting rifle.

karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:34pm PT
there has to be a gun lovers forum somewhere, posting this here is f*#king lame.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
right up there with chalk debates..
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
Ron, why don't you start "The Mother Of All Gun Threads"

Kinda like what Craig did with the "Why are republicans wrong" thread. It'll provide
a place for people who love (or hate) guns to have their conversation, and will
keep new gun threads from popping up all the time.

And no, I don't hate guns. But not everybody here shares your lust/fantasy.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
Ron, if you ever want to come visit in Canada, you shouldn't be bored!. Between myself and a couple of my neighbors in the surrounding acreages, we have 4 'ranges' up to 1600 yards, 5+ .50cal and more than 200 other toys. Enough plinking fun for days!


LilaBiene

Trad climber
Mar 6, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
Just 4 u!
Just 4 u!
Credit: LilaBiene
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:15am PT
Two of my Russian firearms.
Both semi-auto Chambered in 7.62x39mm
The AK-47's Grandfather and Grandson.

1953 Russian Tula factory SKS
Credit: pud

2006 Saiga Izhmash Factory IZ 132
Credit: pud
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2013 - 12:16am PT
Lila,
if you spell it with a W it is not nearly as interesting.



Not a great fan of the SKS, but I'm into Saigas and AKs in general.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:18am PT
A (climbing) friend has both a Mosin 91 rifle and that ubiquitous pistol - the Makorov. He's let me shoot them more than once. Both dirt cheap, highly reliable and amazingly accurate for the money you pay. Mosins were going for under a hundred bucks.

Good stuff.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:40am PT
'White Feather' was happy the trigger pull of the Mosin Nagant M91/30 PU Sniper was a little
heavier than his Winchester Model 70.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:51am PT
One of my favorite rifles to shoot is my Russian SKS.
The ammo is pretty cheap and once you have it sighted in and get use to it,
it's pretty accurate.
I even have a scope for it that I bought years ago.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
My question is,, what is the best DRONE loads?

Being approx 6' long in the fuselage and ten feet of wing span. Servo controls being located mainly in the fuselage along with batterys , gyros and the all inportant receiver. Cameras mounted on belly or nose.

They are not built to take a beating. The tail section would possible be the best area to disable the flight as it has much surface area and control rods for the elevator and rudder all in a smaller area.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
Drones fly too high to shoot at with guns, but I have a book on backyard rocketry with detailed schematics for building a rocket with payload potential and an IR sensor that controls fin servos, making it a missile that seeks the heat of a drone engine.

Then I have another book with details of a proximity fuse.

We have the technology,...

Urizen

Ice climber
Berkeley, CA
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:14pm PT
The rest of us will be all right until the poor learn to build atom bombs in their basements. --Charles Bukowski
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:18pm PT
Maybe a bit OT but I had dinner Sat with an old friend whose credentials are
beyond reproach and he told me that the Air Force, in their inimitable wisdom,
was seriously surprised when they found out that the Taliban was tapping
into our drones' un-scrambled video feeds. I guess 'hubris' is not a
word in the Air Force's vocabulary.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
I wonder if DSM2 at 2.4ghz is comparable to the drones frequencies?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 7, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
Does a Yugoslav Mauser count as a Communist arm?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Mar 7, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
no,, just a classic..
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 7, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
Credit: Piton Ron

So is the Suomi (technically a Nazi gun since Finland was an ally).
Recently got it tuned by McClure and now it rocks those 72rd drums.
crunch

Social climber
CO
Mar 7, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Any theories as to why the commies, who couldn't seem to compete with free enterprise, still made great guns?
The greatest battle rifle of all time was designed by a guy who never made a ruble off of the 57 million plus units made.

That IS an interesting question.

Communism seems fatally flawed as a form of government (if only because, as pointed out decades ago by Orwell), human weaknesses and prejudices override the theoretical fairness of the system).

But, by taking away the profit motive and the need for promotion, pretty appearance, and marketing, an inventor/designer/engineer can produce something that is simple, practical, effective, reliable.

Have to wonder what Ayn Rand would have thought of Kalashnikov, perhaps one of the best ever embodiments of her Howard Roark character?
gonamok

climber
dont make me come over there
Mar 8, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
I have owned 3 mosin nagant M91 rifles, restored one, sporterized one and used the third for parts. They are heavy but exceptionally robust and accurate, fun to shoot. I also have an M44 carbine, which is more of a novelty with the folding bayonet. Durability is a hallmark of russian made weapons.
Jim, when i shoot at targets i pretend its somebodys head and imagine the blood and bone flying when the bullet hits the paper and thats why i shoot, right? I think i hear your mama calling, you geek.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Mar 9, 2013 - 12:52am PT
Have to agree, the M91 Mosin Nagant is one of the most robust battle proven rifles ever made... Next to the AK of course.

It's nowhere near the best, but it's accurate, tough, and extremely cheap.
On of my favorite rifles to shoot. The action is smooth as stucco, trigger pull crisp as a Siberian snowstorm and finish work pretty as a boar but it has never, ever failed.

God I love the smell of Cosmoline in the morning.


Credit: Salamanizer

7.62 X 54R steel core armor piercing rounds.
7.62 X 54R steel core armor piercing rounds.
Credit: Salamanizer
mojede

Trad climber
Butte, America
Mar 9, 2013 - 01:50am PT
I gotta start getting the newspaper again, totally missed the Helena story--keep up with the penis talk, lads.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 9, 2013 - 06:51am PT
Ron. what do you think of the Professional Russian dude? If you still do not have a high speed connection you are missing out on some pretty funny videos...
Hugh of Lincoln

climber
South Carolina
Mar 9, 2013 - 11:21am PT
Love the blue alien peeking out from under the stock in the picture Salimanzer posted. Essential equipment for your range bag.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Mar 9, 2013 - 11:38am PT
that ain't no blue alien, its a drone flight controller. unless you mean a real alien,like a martian.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Mar 9, 2013 - 11:43am PT
During the Afgan's war with the USSR in the 1980s, I was in Pakistan and tried to get up to the border to get myself some Russian AK-47s. I had a way to get them back into the USA without anyone knowing.

Unfortunately my endeavor didn't play out as intended and I never got my commie guns.
klaus

Big Wall climber
Pacif*#ka Muthaf*#ka
Mar 9, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
Credit: klaus
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 9, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
the Professional russian came real close to buying the farm on this one.. not real bright buthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ8Ndkg8urw&feature=player_embedded he is playing a russian;)
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 9, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
The thing that amazed me on the Mosin, is how much flame comes out of the end of it. But if you read any account of Stalingrad, the Russians were sniping at will, day and night with them. Curious how something that seeming lights up the sky like it's Christmas each shot: was so effectively utilized as a sniper rifle.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 9, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
Read the book, enemys at the gate.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Mar 9, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
Not all Mosin ammo produces a large muzzle flash. I have no idea about what they were using in WWII but alot of the ammo available today produces nothing more than what's normal for any rifle.

On that same note, the most common rounds available in the U.S. are Polish and Hungarian surplus, aside from commercial Russian rounds. And that stuff (typically comes in a 880rd spam can or 20rd paper pouches) is known to sometimes toss out a damn near solar flare. Most of it's from the early 70's.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Mar 10, 2013 - 12:20am PT
Speaking of Commie guns. Check out Russias new Ash-12 bullpup.

This thing fires a massive 12.7 X 55 (.50cal) round and holds 30 in the mag. Certainly gives you less options for cover.


Ash-12
Ash-12
Credit: Salamanizer
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 10, 2013 - 12:28am PT
Can't you boys just all go get a room?
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Mar 10, 2013 - 01:52am PT
We have one, it's called the United States. Don't like being in the room with us, move to Iran or Cuba.

On a serious note, I don't understand why talking about stuff with people of similar interests bothers you people who don't share that interest so much. I'm a history buff, and nothing has influenced history so much as the gun. At least modern (past 500 years) history. So naturally I'm generally interested in the subject of historical armament. It has nothing to do with penis size, fanatical fascinations or psychotic illusions. It's just interesting, and fortunately for me, I live in a free country where my Natural Rights are protected by a Constitution giving me the God given (not Government given) right to Keep and Bare arms. So I get to own and shoot these historical weapons, just for fun. You also have the right to choose not to Keep and Bare arms if it suits you. If in that case, don't move to Switzerland.

If you don't like the Trip Reports, don't click on them. If you don't like the Politard threads, don't click on them. Likewise if you don't like the Gun threads, DONT CLICK ON THEM! No need to sit atop some moral high chair spewing your narcissistic opinions in some holier than thou pissfest. If you're on a gun debate thread, love to hear your opinion. But if you're just getting an opinionated political cheap shot in on some benign thread about an interesting subject, you seriously need to examine the content of your character.

Back to Commie Guns, which is an oxymoron because no Commie is allowed to have them.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Mar 10, 2013 - 03:02am PT
I had a Mosin M44. It went to the pawn shop, where it stayed. The fireball at the muzzle is all too familiar. Impressive that! Still have the ammo, like 300rds. Had it all set up with the scout scope. Removed the bayonet, as it shot much better without. MUCH better.

Interesting side note, at the last gun show there was a rough specimen of the older variety for a reasonable price. Too bad the dude at the table talked me out of it. I had picked up a french Berthier and was eyeballing it. Dude says "you don't want that".
Excuse me?
"You don't want that."
Really?
"Yeah, it's french."
I know what it is. I have one, but I have the carbine. (set down berthier, pick up mosin 91)
"It's a Berthier. You can't get ammo for 'em."
Uh, yes you can. From Norma. And Lee makes dies.
"Yeah, but you can't afford it! You don't want that."
You're right bud, I don't want anything off your table. (set down mosin, walk away)

Gun show loophole? Not a problem with this dude around!
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Mar 10, 2013 - 03:24am PT
That's hilarious, never had anyone try and talk me out of buying a gun at a gun show.

Wanna sell that ammo? 30 bucks plus shipping???
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 10, 2013 - 03:48am PT
Do you guys talk climbing on the NRA site?
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Mar 10, 2013 - 03:53am PT
Philo writes:

"Do you guys talk climbing on the NRA site?"



They may not discuss climbing on pervert websites either, but that never stopped you from posting smut on here.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Mar 10, 2013 - 04:07am PT
Classy Chaz. I never posted smut. why do tits frighten you so. Nobody ever died from a mass boobing.
Multiple gun threads on page one of a climbing site seems real lame to me.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Mar 10, 2013 - 07:06am PT
Philo. Go climbing and let the boys have their fun. Or stick arround a be an as#@&%e. your choice. BTW i post a crapload more climbing content than you...
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 10, 2013 - 09:35am PT
Meh. You guys want to derail the thread? Talking to Chaz and Tradman here, (not Phil or Joe Hedge). Just remember that it takes two to tango. It won't derail unless you take it there. And Chaz, why not delete that garbage?
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
Mar 10, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/donna-lange-breasts-smother-kill-boyfriend-everett-washington_n_2486189.html

I am going to keep the ammo, would like to get another Mosin. Thanks though.

I do talk about climbing on the 4x4 site. Let the NRA membership lapse about a decade ago.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 10, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Tanks for the mammaries?

Useless without photos (but I guess she was busted).



Hey guys, don't respond to the trolls and whiners.


That Ash 12 looks interesting. Is it just me or is the scope mounted with an obvious forward cant for ultra range?
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 24, 2013 - 06:29pm PT
Any pictures Ron?
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Oct 24, 2013 - 10:46pm PT
They made some good ones. (OK should have said "formerly Commie"
And they made some lemons. If you ever get offered a deal on a Baikal shotgun, or worse yet, ammo, resist the urge. The communist era guns were ugly and heavy, but probably indestructible. The ammo was at best amusing, typically one misfire/hangfire per box of 25, and the occasional shell had so little powder the shot would all land about 20 feet ahead. I was flat broke at the time, but splashed out on the second-cheapest brand after a few boxes of those.

TE
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 24, 2013 - 11:46pm PT
The commie gun that kicked fascist ass all the way back to Berlin.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 25, 2013 - 12:07am PT
Well, Gary, the T-34 certainly was a good tank and its 75 mm gun ruined
the day for many a Panzer II's and III's which only had 37 or 50's. Against
the Panzer IV's and Panthers it was an equal only in capable hands, at best.
The great success of the T-34 was that over 57,000 were built compared to
45,000 Panzer II-IV and Panthers many of which were lost in N Africa. Those
numbers contain the 26,000 Panzer II's and III's which were not a match for
the T-34.
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Oct 25, 2013 - 03:43am PT
I'm thinking of just making one.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22421185
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Oct 25, 2013 - 04:07am PT
When we went to Bulgaria a few years ago for a friends wedding (and to ski-mighty fine skiing too I might add) I met the brides father. Nice guy. He had my family over for a x-mas dinner and we stayed close by at the ski resort where the wedding took place.

Over drinks (home made booze) and cigars we talked about the general state of affairs in their country as they were closing on the possibility of joining the EU.

Found out he continued to make much of his money in arms manufacturing and sales. When I asked him what kind of arms he replied, 'pretty much the full range. From tanks and missiles to pistols.'

Wonder how he's doing now.
Probably richer

QITNL

climber
Oct 25, 2013 - 04:49am PT
Any of you ever stood on stage lugging a Les Paul backed up with a couple of Marshall stacks?

Probably not.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 25, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
Commie weapon of choice is a big ax, not a gun.
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