Black Rope Syndrome – what’s up with ropes and aluminum?

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Messages 21 - 40 of total 58 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
BrassNuts

Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
Roy - the ropes had very similar use profiles for some time. However, after the tan Galaxy 10mm had been used for a while and showed no hope of improvement after several washes, it has been doomed to the realms of bolt clipping. But, earlier in life when the use profiles were essentially the same for both ropes, the dichotomy of BRS infestation was the same as the pictures show now. Note that the blue Infinity gets a fair bit of rapelling and short/sport climbing use as well.
WBraun

climber
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
Get black rope.

Problem solved .... case dismissed.

What me worry, over and out ...... :-)
johntp

Trad climber
socal
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
Is the glaze on the sheath of the 10mm from the tread color or ?

AFLAK!
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:24pm PT
I just did a little experiment and patted off all of the chalk. My whitish-orange rope is now blackish-orange. Thanks, Dave, up until now, I was fine with my rope. Be sure to email me when you get this puzzle solved.
BrassNuts

Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
Hey Grug, I should have it all figured out after I silo a few more of these...
Credit: BrassNuts
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:52pm PT
Dave, I'm beginning to think that you're prescient. It wasn't until the third (5th?) Old Chub that I even came up with the idea for my awesome "rope/color patdown experiment". I remember that after the second (third?) I was on a whole different line of reasoning involving angle of incidence (could have been reflection) or something.
Some Random Guy

climber
San Franpsycho (a.k.a. a token of my extreme)
Feb 5, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
Sterling ropes have a similar problem. It isn't so much that the rope turns black, but that after belaying a pitch or two, your palms will get blackened.
yeah I have a sterling that does that. annoying. washing it doesn't help either.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Feb 5, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
Have a red galaxy with dry coat and two strand weave. BRS bad.

Have a newer blue mammut similar weave, I think coated. Will review and report back.
MisterE

Social climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 12:34am PT
I remember asking the aluminum oxide question, and getting the RC.noob smack-down from TradIsGood about how it was just dirt and aluminum oxide is not black.

LOL. Web redemption.

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Feb 6, 2013 - 12:48am PT
I remember asking the aluminum oxide question, and getting the RC.noob smack-down from TradIsGood about how it was just dirt and aluminum oxide is not black.

Well, aluminum oxide (Al2O3) is not black. Single crystal aluminum oxide is called sapphire and, absent impurities, is clear. Non single crystal alumina is typically white.

Curt
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Feb 6, 2013 - 12:52am PT
So, are you saying that black is white or white is black? It matters for my response. Assuming I have one.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Feb 6, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Someone tell me how to get more of the black stuff on my rope and hands, I like how it smells
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 6, 2013 - 12:58am PT
YER GONNA DIE!!!!111169
MisterE

Social climber
Feb 6, 2013 - 01:02am PT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_oxide

OK, it's just aluminum? I may have deserved that smack-down... I read it as an interaction between aluminum and oxygen, which I thought we breathed for survival.

I'm no chemist...
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Feb 6, 2013 - 01:03am PT
So, are you saying that black is white or white is black?

No.

Curt
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Feb 6, 2013 - 01:06am PT
Maybe I should have been more specific.
It aluminum oxidation ,or aluminum rust.

Aluminum tend to turn a lot of things black.

Eggs can turn black in an aluminum pan if its not anodized
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Feb 6, 2013 - 01:08am PT
Any rope that I use on single-pitch or sport turns black. It sits in the dirt on a bag, gets drug through gates, everyone yells take and then you lower off of it.


Any rope I only use for multi-pitch trad lasts much longer, usually dies from getting cut. It is hanging out in the air, nobody sits on it, hangs on it, and we hike off many more of those climbs vs. sport.




Tahquitz vs. J-tree.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Feb 6, 2013 - 03:40am PT
Cosmic, eggs can turn black in any pan if u don't know what you're doing.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Feb 6, 2013 - 03:44am PT
Yeah like when you burn them, Ryan.

:)
pell

Trad climber
Sunnyvale
Feb 6, 2013 - 05:06am PT
What specifically causes BRS?

Aluminium oxidation. There is always a thin layer of (black) Al2O3 over any aluminium surface. When something abrasive (e.g. rope) is pulled over aluminium surface it abrades the black aluminium oxide and a new Al2O3 is immediately formed.

Is there any way to avoid it?

Been climbers we can avoid this choosing between at least three options:

1. Do not use aluminium. Unfortunately iron binners are too heavy and carbon fiber binners did not hit stores yet.

2. Prevent abrasion between aluminium and a rope. For example, never clip (unsafe). Or (better) cover your rope with Teflon (polytetrafluoroethylene). Expensive Mammut ropes - COaTiNgfinish™, ref. https://d1qxh2iwg385ci.cloudfront.net/images/Mammut_Seilfibel_E_web_11129.pdf - have a Teflon coating.

3. Do not climb at all (too boring).

Seems, the only option to avoid BRS is to use Teflon coated ropes.

Personally I use a 60m Teflon coated Mammut 9.2mm rope for "moving fast and light" and a "wash it frequently" 80m New England 9.5mm rope as a work horse. I do not care much about the BRS.

P.S. I made an assumption that some binners paint rope less than other. For example, it seems that BD Oz paint rope less then any MadRock binner. I did not prove it yet, it's only an assumption.
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