Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 1, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
I'm going to make this a very brief post, and then I'll return to lurking.
I've been hanging out at SuperTopo for over 3 years now, and I've enjoyed most of the experience in addition to making a bunch of new friends and finding some GREAT climbing partners. It's also enabled me to reconnect with many old friends with whom I'd lost touch.
But recently, the whole atmosphere has changed to one of extreme negativity towards others. That I don't like at all! What it means ... it's no longer fun to post here, since too many self appointed know-it-alls immediately begin piling on if the view expressed doesn't fit the going norm. The responses rapidly degrade to personal attacks on intelligence, perceptions, and degradation of individuals.
The business of t*r doing a nuke-bomb of ChrisMac's website struck me as the epitome of immature and self-righteous zealotry. ChrisMac has spent his time and his money providing us with a great forum. I don't know t*r, but in an infantile hissy-fit, she crossed the line in the sand from expressing her views to a form of destructive vandalism. A friend remarked to me in a PM that t*r was in her early 30's, going on 14. And was also described as a "drama queen," which all I can say is...if the shoe fits, she'd better get it on.
So I'm now going to sit back and watch the fur fly! Hee, hee!
I didn't even read your post... But good! The people that don't like it here for whatever reason should leave. No need to throw yourself a going away party. It has obviously turned into a go away party which should be expected.
I agree, I used to look at supertopo as an avenue to connect with climbers or alpinists. It is now a place where out of touch folks tell you you are stupid/dumb...etc.... for trying to say hi or interact and share knowledge.
Where have the big names that used to post gone? They don't post here anymore, and you can't blame it on me.
It is sad, obituaries are what lead me (and keep me) to this sight not climbing knowledge/info.
As Bob Skinner (Todd's dad) told me, "there are no strangers in the mountains, just friends you haven't met".
ahh bullshite,
if you fools of narrow interpretation
cannot appreciate
the discourse
centered around your fellow dirtbags
bathing,
then you have lost touch
with the commun onderlieing
theme that unites
all of us mountain zealots:
absurdity.
go wipe each other's
asses with spitshined douche rags.
The business of t*r doing a nuke-bomb of ChrisMac's website struck me as the epitome of immature and self-righteous zealotry. ChrisMac has spent his time and his money providing us with a great forum. I don't know t*r, but in an infantile hissy-fit, she crossed the line in the sand from expressing her views to a form of destructive vandalism.
didn't Chris Mac, at the same time, take down the Boob thread? which I assume (I was out climbing) was the object of the nukeing?
I don't know about self-righteousness and zealotry, but those words certainly don't suggest that we're trying to work out what the domain of appropriate behavior is... and I don't mean that in a suppressive manner, rather, when many people of different backgrounds get together there is sure to be misunderstandings of what is appropriate, and it gets worked out.
If we insist on having absolute freedom and liberty to post what we wish, then maybe we should consider creating our own web site to do it on. As far as I know, this web site is "owned" by SuperTopo, and the owner can decide what is appropriate and what is not.
Destructive vandalism, a.k.a. nukeing, on the STForum site didn't start with t*r, but I believe originated by members in good standing with this community. Why should t*r be singled out as a special case?
When I read what you wrote, BDC, it seems that you feel that t*r was on the "out" with the prevailing STForum "norm."
Time to take a deep breath and consider just why we post here.
Hopefully not just to look at boobs.
I haven't met t*r in person, I have corresponded, in the past, with her via email. I wouldn't presume to have an opinion as to whether or not she is a "drama queen" any more than other posters to the Forum.
It is only your guys loss that great climbers are not reading/posting on this site. I am confused why you don't want Jello, etc posting anymore. (This used to be a climbers forum).
It still is,Q
I still climb, and have been for the last 47 years.
And I'm pretty sure almost all the posters here,still,
get on the rock every once in a while.
Some more than others, I grant.
Hey Scandinavian- I may not know the full story on certain folks, but supertopo became a place to not share knowledge!
Supertopo used to be a fun place to interact, don't blame me for the lack of participation. I hope to share but i get railroaded for proposing an idea! Why did mentioning folks leaving hit a nerve?
The key to supertopo success is to only go to posts that interest you;...don't take anything too seriously, and remember that the internet is not even real........I like supertopo.....but I only open only a handful of posts.......It's like a buffet;....only eat the food you like......Your years old climbing and insight is valuable here, Roger......lurk on, but throw a snowball when need be...
Brokedownclimber, I always appreciate what you post. Don't go too far away. Just try to ignore all that grandstanding. There's been way too much time given to a few people trying to suck all the attention they can.
I'm simply going to continue pursuing my Quixotic quest to transform Wayne County into the next Bishop. Prana is gonna sponsor the new website, and Mungeclimber is gonna conduct clinics on how to survive the tribulations of Choss. When they turn out the lights at Supertopo, by God I'm gonna make the last post!
Yes! I will quote Todd's thoughts, which mirror my own.
The key to supertopo success is to only go to posts that interest you;...don't take anything too seriously, and remember that the internet is not even real........I like supertopo.....but I only open only a handful of posts.......It's like a buffet;....only eat the food you like......Your years old climbing and insight is valuable here, Roger......lurk on, but throw a snowball when need be...
I do agree that ST seems a little ------crappy? chaotic? High-School? at times----but then a great story or adventure is posted.
I like you Brokendown, you have a few good points except... Well, immaturity sometimes visits even the most mature and intelligent folks at times. I can't hold those moments against the majority.
Life is weird. As for TR specifically... Well, experience helps folks mature. In many ways she need the input, the experience "to grow" and this site might be helping her find those building blocks.
Last line Klaus +1! Negativity to the max. Rodger hope to see you again in the future, yer right, bunch of trash lately, but don't take the DORKS here to serious, they prolly ain't worth it. Get on out here, we need to share some beer Brother!
Peace
But recently, the whole atmosphere has changed to one of extreme negativity towards others. ...since too many self appointed know-it-alls immediately begin piling on if the view expressed doesn't fit the going norm. The responses rapidly degrade to personal attacks on intelligence, perceptions, and degradation of individuals.
please site some examples.
There is another option… Don't take anything written on a screen personal.
What's that old line about best intention not going unpunished?
Honest, I'd not like this place as much if it was soft and cuddly like a pillow, but then again I'd never expect it to be… its a climbers forum and climbers ain't too soft and fluffy… with a couple of exceptions… you know who you are.
The business of t*r doing a nuke-bomb of ChrisMac's website struck me as the epitome of immature and self-righteous zealotry.
sure, it may have been. and certainly one sure fire way of voicing an opinion/slowing discussion of boobs. The unelected moderator had her say on a single thread… and got shown the door. It is what it is.
ChrisMac has spent his time and his money providing us with a great forum.
Are you sure about this? I bet (totally guessing here) that CMac spends little to operate this website and would go so far as to say he get's paid more through running the site than he pays out month after month… but I could totally be wrong, but I'd have to see proof to believe otherwise.
I don't know t*r, but in an infantile hissy-fit, she crossed the line in the sand from expressing her views to a form of destructive vandalism. A friend remarked to me in a PM that t*r was in her early 30's, going on 14. And was also described as a "drama queen," which all I can say is...if the shoe fits, she'd better get it on.
Didn't the OP start out by saying "The responses rapidly degrade to personal attacks on intelligence, perceptions, and degradation of individuals."….
Pot… meet kettle?
It's only human to occasionally get tide up in ones on mind and feel that the world owes one an apology of some sort. And sitting in the armchair on monday we can all point fingers and say how it could have been done better.
But then again…. nobody's that human.
Cheers, hope you get back to posting again some time.
Just one thing Brokedown, we all know that some of the stuff here can occasionally be not that great. But if people that love the outdoors and have actual rock, mountain, ice, water, wilderness experience and great stories.....well if they leave this forum, so many out there will be the poorer for it. Poorer just because a few f'ddd the place up. Don't let the negative out weigh the positive. Just a thought.
I'm breaking my "vow of silence" again to answer; I simply said I was going to STFU for a while and boycott certain threads and responses. I'm lurking, but will continue to speak out IF IT MIGHT DO SOME GOOD! Gawd! It must be the Winter doldrums taking over.
Jingy-
And by the way re: kettle/black. You may read more carefully about most of what I said was quoting another unnamed member.
"It's a great place to get yer spelling and grammar checked!"
I wish you people would step up and check mine. I commit bad English here all the time, and only rarely does someone ever call me on it.
BrokenDownClimber,
If you're going to back away from the Taco for a bit, winter is the time to do it. A number of the people posting here have real fragile minds, and they tend to lose all self control after being cooped up indoors for longer than they like. ( or at least that's the excuse they will use to justify their loss of self control )
It's only a small percentage of the folks on here who surrender their self control, but it can sometimes represent enough of a critical mass to make visiting here more of an irritation than entertainment. Winter seems to always be that time, year after year.
I met BDC at Facelift, had cow with him and the rest of the herd. Bunch of mavericks, listen to them rant! The pack mentality. Bastards. I love you guys, like in Wayne's World, so there, pussies. AT LEAST BDC HAS A PAIR AND IS COURTEOUS ENOUGH TO TELL US WHY HE'S LEAVING, RATHER THAN PULL OUT WITH A NUKED THREAD BEHIND HIM, fer cryin' out loud.
So chill the f*#k out and go back to wanking if you got nothing positive to say, I say.
We all seem to get along well enough at the YP campground. Little upset the folk and we had a great time, and Roger contributed in a very large way...
The net's totally different. NO SO-CALLED SOCIAL CONVENTIONS HERE, TOO ROWDY!
I do care you are not going to post, BDC, but you are free, a climber, and twenty-one. Good lurking, hope to see you in the Fall...
PAGING -Brokedownclimber - Rodger - and because i know you are lurking Mr Raubach Sir.
Do what you feel you must but remember that the TacoStand is a lot like the weather in Colorado,
if you don't like it wait ten minutes.
It is just a CLIMBER'S forum.
We agree, we disagree,
we laugh, we cry,
We pull together, we push apart.
It is just a CLIMBER'S forum.
Full of everything,
from poignant to irrelevant,
from fluff to froth.
It is just a CLIMBER'S forum.
Where we can express commonality and diversity.
It is our very own island for misfit toys.
And it's better with you with us.
Don't ignore the wheat for the chaff,
the roses for the thorns,
or the beauty for the beast.
You Sir, of all people know that I won't leave permenantly! I'm more or less "biting my toungue" to refrain from attacking some stupidity when it's preceived.
What bothers me most is there are some others here who seem to lose control and exhibit "Schadenfreude" or taking joy in the miseries of others on polititard threads, Boob threads, but seldom if ever on climbing threads. My New Year Resolution was avoiding any polititard, and other crap threads for the year. The t*r incident was sort of the break point for me, not so much for her sometimes inane posts, but for actions taken. Sort of just mentally throwing my arms in the air and asking "why, Lord, why?"
Brokedown....Man i hear you on the negative female energy exuded by that t r woman...Alls i wanted was a few nudie shots with my beer and i find nuclear explosions , violence, and mental abuse instead of nurturing breast photos.....I feel violated , traumatized , and hurt with no where to turn....Daddy loves blue velvet...!
Sorry to hear you feel that way bd. For me this place is like a microcosm of the real world. I choose what I like and try not to get caught up in the rest. It's been difficult lately to achieve the last part lately though so I understand how you feel.
This site has been pronounced dead a dozen times since I started posting here.
I have been too busy of late to post and bump the kind of content that keeps you guys engaged and I feel disappointed when good folks lose interest in being here.
A little respect and self-restraint goes a long way on this forum.
The Taco is a reflection of the scene in Yosemite Valley, which can be more harsh and rude than any in the country. On one level this is understandable because there are so many people there and it's easy to become jaded. But there is also just a culture of unfriendly competition in California climbing. Don't know why this is, but it's unfortunate.
I spent a lot of time in the Valley in the past, and maybe I wasn't one of the "in crowd", but I don't ever remember the type of aggressive slander, name calling, and rudeness that goes on here now.
Maybe it's just me but I find I'm always finding exceptional friendliness when I've been there currently. I think you find what you look for.
I don't know Mark. I'll give you some examples: rope theft, bolt chopping, tire slashing, fist fights, slander, challenging people to free soloing.
Another anecdote from a good friend who topped out his first wall, the Prow. He and his partner had run out of water and ran into a team who had just blasted Astroman. These guys had extra water, so my buddy asks if they could spare just a bit for the descent. The guys scowled at them and said, "You should have planned better."
It still is,Q
I still climb, and have been for the last 47 years.
And I'm pretty sure almost all the posters here,still,
get on the rock every once in a while.
Some more than others, I grant.
After 20 years away from climbing, I've spent the last two weekends flailing and failing in JT. It is the most alive I have felt in ages.
Rankin, yes, there are those who are dicks and as#@&%es in every crowd but the vast majority of climbers in Yosemite never experience the issues you mention. Again, you find what you look for.
Don't really care enough to read several pages of whatever, but let me say this, Brokedownclimber: I can't disagree more.
In fact, as a mostly-lurker (for far longer than you) I'm posting now more than ever. ST is what you make of it, and frankly it's turned into my go-to place to ask advice on most any topic as chances are there's someone here that's got experience with most anything you can come up with. Case in point, I recently ran into hydraulic problems with a 1950's backhoe and all sorts of lurkers I'd never heard of popped up to help.
Sure, climbing topics will lead to your self-appointed-know-it-alls coming out of the woodwork, but frankly pretty much every climbing topic has been beaten to death here and the natives get tired of rehashing things over an over again. Frankly, unless it's a TR or a question about a specific technique I'm not sure there's anything you could ask here that couldn't be answered with a quick Search.
Other thought is IMO calling T*R out like that was bad form. Good or bad, she's got a lot of history here, and I seem to recall her being around prior to 2007 under a different name. Which, if my math adds up, is a lot more time on ST than you have. Like her or not, she's your senior here and I'm not sure you're one to judge.
recently? ha, this forum went down hill years ago. I used to post under my name until I got in a beef with someone from So Cal, so now I am Nor Cal (nothing to do with surfing).
I come by and lurk once in a while, but not too often. I posted last summer with the thought that I could get some slings back that my partner left in Tuolumne and I was abused. I recall that Locker had some nice things to say to me about leaving the slings behind! After all I am just a weekend warrior and not a hard man like he is!
I will post again, but it will be selective.
For what it is worth (and that is not much to the crowd) I started posting here over a dozen years ago.
JohnTP, glad to hear you're starting to climb again. I too flail, if you need a flailing partner, give me a ringalingding, I need to get my skills back in order and get back to climbing a lot more than I do now. Glad Rodger put this up, especially if we can get climbing again.
Peace
Ron, Thanks. I need to work on core strength and balance.
My point is that I probably would never have got back in the game were it not for the taco. It has taken some time and I am so lame; can we spell goober? But it is FUN!
Mark, not sure what you mean when you say, "you find what you're looking for." Are you saying that my buddies on top of the Prow were looking for trouble, which is why these guys were rude to them? Doesn't seem that way to me.
I was climbing the first pitch of one of my first routes in the Valley, Serenity to Sons, when Singer, comes rappelling down the pitch. I was a little uncomfortable on the pin scars but managing just fine. Right when he gets along side of me, he screams at me, tying to rattle me and as a way to say, "f*#k you." I've never encountered behavior like this in any other climbing area in 20 years of climbing. I'm not saying it's common in the Valley, because it's not. I'm saying it happens there more, regardless of what anyone is "looking for."
I may have given the mistaken impression that I'm leaving on a permenant basis, I'm taking some time out to decompress from the BS scenario.
I love S-T, and I love the people, so I can't simply walk away. It's a behavior issue; many people need to grow the fuk up and quit slandering and defaming others simply beacuse you don't agree with them.
Hudon.........great advice and words to live by! Never had a bad experience in 38 years of going to Yosemite........that I didn't deserve. It's no different than anyother place, if you mind yer biz, no one will blow yer buzz.
Peace
Hey Broken Down Climber, I'm stoned so no matter what I say I will take it wrong. I like that pic of you - looks like you're a real mellow guy. Thanks for your contribution here. This is a great place.
Hey, Cosmic, you were not there when I started this post of mine, I said I'm stoned and there you are - pretty cosmic.
Thanks to Ed for reminding me of the great day we had climbing in 2010; that was my "comeback trail trailhead" climb, atop Manure Pile Buttress after completing "After Six." That was exactly 3 1/2 months after breaking 7 ribs and 2 cervical vertabrae in Eldorado; at the time it was taken I was still (unknown to me!) very anemic with very low hematocrit. I bitched the whole time that I didn't have any endurance! Thanks, Ed!
when the st forum was started it was cool...you knew almost everyone on it.
every thread was pertinent to climbing.
now it a forum of haters. Ive been attacked just about everytime i have posted here by people that i dont even know....especially around cocktail hour.
I've taught my daughter that for someone to affect me, I have to care what they think of me. If I don't care what they think, they can't affect me.
I pity people here who degenerate into name calling and slander, they cause me to think that the are very unhappy and insecure. I pity them but they don't affect me.
Two thumbs up for what Ed said just above, I met a lot of wonderful people her on ST, more than a few are on their way to becoming very good friends. Since I've been dealing with selling Ian's gear, I've been simply floored by the generosity of our fellow SuprtTopians.
Everyone who comes on ST does so for their own reasons. We have learned how to deal with that
in real life. In a way it is unfortunate that this new medium, the internet, persuades us we can
with impunity, amp ourselves up. Uniformly posters say on meeting face to face, "You are not as
bad as your posts."
On the other hand it is interesting that we drop the face we have learned to display in real life. If
I were a psychiatrist I would talk to my patients only via the internet. Freud can be left in the
dust. Really.
Personally I would consider the option of slandering someone on ST to be very like disrobing in
public. There is not a dime's worth of difference between the two.
A word on the mammary thread. Over the past few million years women and men have evolved
so as best to carry out their roles. Those roles are different. Very different. To see this you need
only reflect for ten seconds on the fact within living memory women were considered to be
chattel property. Much the same as your cattle or your horse. Like men though, they too are very
diverse and they will respond variously.
We all would be well served were we to renormalize. From here on to consider females to be
extra galactic aliens only recently transported to earth. Even better, were we to allow for the fact
we can't be sure we were here first.
I've taught my daughter that for someone to affect me, I have to care what they think of me. If I don't care what they think, they can't affect me.
I pity people here who degenerate into name calling and slander, they cause me to think that the are very unhappy and insecure. I pity them but they don't affect me.
That is very Zen Mark - i really dig that - and strive for it myself.
But you also don't get into the mix - you don't ever get real - or honest with your feelings. That said - I would never ever argue or debate any of this "stuff" in real life.
But are there not times you want to fight? - or take a stand for something - or speak truth to a lie -or call a dumb ass a dumb ass?
You certainly take a stand on shitty weak ass pro on walls lol - you must think in your head -"what kind of pussy had to pound this in here when there is a perfectly good placement here" lol
you must have opinions?
Probably very, very strong opinions - but you keep them to yourself on ST?
It's funny - after meeting 100's of ST folks - I can attest that the most reserved people on ST can often be the most argumentative and non-zen in real life - and vice-versa. Blue is a really good example.
Certainly not always though - some folks are just dicks everywhere...lol
I've learned that even with the best of intentions, "discussions" on the Internet devolve quite quickly. Respect goes downhill fast and never comes back. I don't need the agony.
TGT, I was in the Valley for a "day shot" two weeks ago and will be back next weekend. It's not a lack of climbing or a seasonal disorder it's the attitudes of some...
TGT, I know most of us are weekend warriors and I did not take anything personal. I've been on supertopo for years and years and have just found it lacking in constructive climbing related topics.
My comment about locker was intended to be funny. I deleted the part about getting a job at the to become a hardman like him.
Nothing derogatory whatsoever in the term "weekend warrior." I know a lot of climbers who work normal 9 to 5 jobs, train at the local gym a night or two, and then pull down HARD on weekends.
Besides, it's not the number you are putting up, it's the satisfaction you are getting from your climbing that counts.
the satisfaction i get from climbing and having a good cup of coffee are important to my happiness and Hood River Coffee makes all my dreams come true....Take 3.....Action.....! Cut...!
I'm afraid ST will continue to have an untamed, uncultivated element. It's impossible to prohibit individuals from posting on the internet drunk. Or prevent them from venting and propounding their superiority at the expense of others... flaunting their carnal predispositions without taste or discretion.
Most of us net enertainment from colorful, unique persona who misbehave a little...
But when equitable and civil humanity leave ...or become less active (ie; Rodger, Anders etc.)...the forum portends to lose its grounding
I couldn't develop an interest in RC.com because of the feral, combative tenor...
Minus respect and a measure of deference to other's opinions ...the campfire burns out...
Sorry you are leaving broke. I hope it is not something I said. If so, please forgive me ;)
I can give you an access code to the secret Boobs thread :D
According to Gresham's Law, "Bad money drives out good."
If you have a choice of two currencies, one which may become worthless and the other will not,
people will tend to spend the questionable currency while holding the good.
This may have some applicability to ST, but I wouldn't know.
"A Penny For Your Thoughts" Twilight Zone Episode over 40 years ago.
While this episode was about telepathy, I believed it went further by begging the viewer to ask himself: is it more rewarding to have your honest thoughts actually heard by others, instead of keeping them secret
Just got back from Culp Valley near Anza Borrego. Small amount rock, then some hiking and mainly taking a wisdom course learning about compass, wilderness survival etc.
Just read the last two pages here and can't tell you how they made me smile and just enjoy all the different perspectives and peeps here on The Taco.
Cheers to you all as each of you add so much to ST in your own individual way (s). lynne
I'm one of those persons that uses ST to reconnect with old friends and remind myself of the good old days when my body and lifestyle hadn't taken from me my old, semi-hardcore self. If that makes me a "not worthy" person for participation in discussion to some people, then I'm happy for you that you are able to always be strong and follow the path that you love.
I think that the "bond of the rope" creates long life friendships and an outlook on life that allows a person to handle a lot of hardships that have nothing to do with climbing.
I've had lots of problems in my life, that I've never aired here, but you guys have helped me through a lot of them none the less. This place is an inspiration, and a place of solace for me in this crazy world.
As far as the boob thread goes, I only read it for the articles:-)
I've known brokedown for 50 years now and I've never met a more honorable person. If he is offended at something it no doubt has to do with his sense of honor. If others are offended that he is offended, what does that say about their sense of honor? Apparently from the level of obnoxious vitriol directed toward him and others, there are some who have no sense of honor and take pleasure in that fact. To each his own.
Apparently from the level of obnoxious vitriol directed toward him and others, there are some who have no sense of honor and take pleasure in that fact.
Apparently from the level of obnoxious vitriol directed toward him and others, there are some who have no sense of honor and take pleasure in that fact.
Supertopo is just as bad and just as good as it always was.
If you are looking for mud to wallow in, there is plenty, just like always. If you are looking for smart and intelligent posts, there are plenty. If you are looking for climbing stuff there is plenty of that also.
If Supertopo is a negative experience for you, you are reading the wrong threads.
I think it is quite stretch to make claims about a person's honor based solely on what they post in a recreational internet forum.
Kinda cheapens the meaning of the word "honor."
If a person only has honor on special occasions and it doesn't extend to recreation, then what kind of honor is that? Situational honor in my books is no honor at all.
It's this PC Bullschitt that has dissillusioned me with this forum.
I guess I'm cornfused. I thought PC bullschitt was when you didn't like people being too Politically correct. That they should speak their mind and not hold back. That seems to happen a lot on this forum. Its just that peoples minds are a bit in the gutter. So could you clarify for me. What is it that you don't like?
I thought you were leaving because of the rancor and disrespectful behavior.
I never said this place wasn't worth one's time, but I do think you can get a pretty good idea of people by reading numerous comments of theirs. If they're not the vitriolic people they pretend to be on ST, then that also shows you something about their character and a lack of consistency if nothing else. To me to be honorable, a person should at least strive to be consistently honorable. We all fail from time to time.
Apparently from the level of obnoxious vitriol directed toward him and others, there are some who have no sense of humor and take pleasure in that fact.
Logged on in 2006...Supertopo was a great distraction and procrastination from my then monotonous job...then I got fired from a new job in 2007 due to my procrastinating skills I honed in on here!!! Knew then I had a problem with the internet, Supertopo and other nefarious sites!!! LOL, but I kept on logging on Supertopo until 2010-ish?? Then I did the math. I looked up all my total posts (1,588), figured it took me approx. 2-5 minutes per post, and that's being conservative...it wasn't pretty.
I did the same thing for LEB and other high volume posters who shall remain nameless...LEB had posted the equivalent of 105 days (24/7)!!! Freakin' nuts! Life is too short to spend in the electronic void!
Anyways, decided that I should really focus on family, my daughter and wife, and haven't regretted a minute of it! Cheers.
Btw, Good job Broken Down Climber...I'll keep an eye out for ya at Fremont Cyn.!!!
Here's something your Brokedownfriend said on the Gay Boy Scouts thread, full quote:
So...Climbski2...are YOU a parent? The business of being PC pales into insignificance to parents. I'm hopeful that someday a grandson of mine will become a Scout, and I really wouldn't appreciate a sexual predator as a Scoutmaster. This is really an issue involving parents, and not the general public as a whole. So..if you and your butthole buddy want to bugger one another, have at. I really don't givva schitt.
There are at least three statements there, explicit or implicit, with which I wholeheartedly disagree. I bet you can identify at least two. Sitting around without voicing a modicum of displeasure doesn't sit with me.
My contributions to these forums are primarily visual. I've never seen anybody respond to a thread "needs more words!"
When I post a random photo, I do so as a fellow lover of mountains. If you love mountains - err, choss heaps - this picture is for you:
Vitaliy M.'s buddy
Credit: QITNL
I don't care if you are:
male
female
straight
gay
white
black
Mexican
Christian
Jewish
Muslim
etc.
If anyone disparages any of my fellow lovers of choss, you also disparage me.
For the record, I do not share brokedown's conservative values. We do have very civilized disagreements however.
And I'm sure that not every gay is predatory. It also seems pretty clear from the Catholic Church example that hidden gays in positions of authority are more likely to abuse their power than those out of the closet. I'm also pretty sure there already are gay scout masters, they're just not recognized as such. I therefore think the sooner all gays are out and equal the better.
Of course as a woman who has traveled around the world alone several times over, I could tell you all a thing or two about predatory heterosexual males. And I've had run ins with those a lot more frequently than with lesbians. LOL
The fact is nobody's children are safe in any venue in North America anymore. Kids get kidnapped off of school busses and taken to underground bomb shelters by total strangers, they get kidnapped and held as sex slaves in some pervert's basement or back yard, they get gunned down in their classrooms, and so far as I know those have all been done by heterosexual males.
As far as brokedown resorting to name calling, but that's his responsibilty not mine.
The assumption behind the opposition to gay scout leaders is 1) irrational bias often based on religion 2) a somewhat understandable bias given what's happened in the Catholic Church.
I will state again, the problem in the Catholic church was hidden gay pedophiles whom everyone trusted and the persistent attempt over many years to cover it all up. If gays are out in the open, those conditions are eliminated and the same standards apply to them as anyone else. In time hopefully, people will understand the difference between gay which is a biological condition of birth and gay pedophiles which is a lifestyle choice based on stunted psychological development.
Pedophiles can not be eliminated but our children can be educated to report them where ever encountered and not to believe that any authority is above such reporting or that such encounters are ever the child's fault.
Brokedown...I hear what you are saying about the PC drift but it's all good and part of the mudslingin....Maybe someone will post some Andrew Dice poetry and balance out the Kumbaya factor...? RJ
And I'm sure that not every gay is predatory. It also seems pretty clear from the Catholic Church example that hidden gays in positions of authority are more likely to abuse their power than those out of the closet. I'm also pretty sure there already are gay scout masters, they're just not recognized as such. I therefore think the sooner all gays are out and equal the better.
Since some people seem confused on the issue, gay does not equal pedophile.
Exactly my point. Maybe if our society could accept gays, we would begin to see the difference. And let us not forget that Jerry Sandusky of Penn State was not apparently gay which is one of the reasons probably no body suspected him to be a pedophile of young boys. An interesting question is if he worked in a girl's boarding school would young girls have been his victims?
I think how people conduct themselves on Supertopo is an honest reflection of their needs and wants, who they really are, stripped of the fears associated with an in-person confrontation. In other words, people present themselves how they want to be in the world, without regard for the fear of getting an @ss-beating for saying or being offensive to others. Actually, this is more true of anonymous folks than widely known real name posters.
While this is generally a bad thing according to my value system, there are some good and therapeutic things about it. It's a good halfway house of sorts for folks learning to deal with confrontation in a healthy way. Some people practice "being a dick" here so they can get more comfortable with confrontations in real life. Being able to cope with a confrontation is a first step to being able to have rational thoughts and be considerate amidst a confrontation. It's a way of letting out emotional angst without hurting the "real" people around you in "real" life. I think I did that for a short bit around 2005.
Maybe this gets close to the differential resentment that Supertopo seems to bear for negative participants who are climbers vs. non-climbers.
We don't want to be the cesspool outlet of negative emotions for others who have nothing invested in us or what we care about. But real people sometimes express unpleasant negative stuff, and if it balances over time with the good stuff, we're more tolerant.
So the instinct to "protect the tribe" and shun negative non-climbers is not really an expression of parochialism, but more a community taking a stand against net negative folks who come with a calculated lack of investment to make a safe haven for dumping sh!t.
I would hope that a forum of basket-weavers would be resentful if I joined just because I don't really give a damn about basket weaving and it was a safe place for me to treat people poorly, spoiling relationships that I don't care about.
Maybe I have a problem with people in real life being patient enough to cope with my long-winded diatribes, but THERE IS NOTHING YOU ALL CAN DO TO STOP ME FROM WRITING IT HERE. Mua ha ha ha.
please site some examples.
Let us know!