This has to be one of the lamest sports ever. I'm sorry for the loss but what's next,convertable car jumping? as long as they can keep selling the sports drinks to the armchair athletes this will keep happening.
Ruppel....i think it's more of a cultural thing than arrogance. The vast majority of climbers are into self propelled sports that they feel are more environmentally sensitive. This country has developed a huge cultural devide......reminiscent of the late 60's early 70's.
Wouldn't surprise me to see ATV'ers and Snowmobiler's that have there own disdain for climbers et al that could easily be construed as arrogance.
Regardless....the passing of a 25 year old, in the prime of his life, is grounds for all to pause and reflect on the fragility of life and the pain that such an event visits on loved ones.
Thank's donini, I meant no disrespect to the athlete, just that as long as these companys keep paying young guy's to perform this crazy sh#t we'll probably just keep seeing more of the same. hell his own brother got effed up at the same event.
You still don't see it do you. Coming into a thread about someone dying from participating in sport then saying:
This has to be one of the lamest sports ever
is arrogant. You made your self look an ass by posting it.
If you don't like companies sponsoring athletes to push themselves then your entitled to that opinion. Don't belittle another sport to make your point though. SO, if that's really what you where trying to say, sell all your climbing gear and move on. All top end climbers these days are sponsored. So if a top end climber punts it soloing are you still gonna say it's the companies fault???
Thank's donini, I meant no disrespect to the athlete, just that as long as these companys keep paying young guy's to perform this crazy sh#t we'll probably just keep seeing more of the same. hell his own brother got effed up at the same event.
kenny t you are an as#@&%e.
i can say the same thing you did about all those fine climbers who fell, died of exposure or got killed in avvies... but it would be extremely classless to do so.
I already agreed with that...I just stated that I thought it was a lame sport not worth dying for. not everything has to be turned into an extreme sport fuktard.
Please slow down and read the meaning of his post.
There's a whole topic in discussing the role commerce has played in death by sponsorship expectations. This is not new but it has reached the attention of people at large through media like the youtube I posted.
I'm a bit grossed out by my own interest in seeing the moment of this guy's turning point.
Why I'm thinking about it, is the instant availability of video to any moment and how matter of fact it is to access situations that hold only a passing interest to me.
It is really tragic for those who love this individual and I have trouble with being able to access what should be private .
I don't have a problem with your views of the sport. I don't care either way. The problem lies in the post that you choose to express them. Not classy. It's called respect. Learn it.
The vast majority of climbers are into self propelled sports that they feel are more environmentally sensitive. This country has developed a huge cultural devide......reminiscent of the late 60's early 70's.
I agree, it’s to bad that as a climber I’m expected to be pigeon holed into a certain identity. I know climbers who own sleds and others who are gear heads. I drive a 911 and am unapologetic for my love of fast cars and racing.
Warren Harding drove a Jag , a Vette and dabbled in racing.
To quote Hemingway “There are but three true sports--bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing.”
2 out of 3 for me, unless you count fighting bull on internet forums. (No disrespect meant for anyone here.)
agree, this is a r-word "sport".
the kind of one-upmanship activities like this caused that Lama $hit show in Patagonia a couple years ago and now this 25 year old is dead. RIP to him and his family.
I get more out of watching Fred Beckey follow a 5.7 at 80 years old than another rail slide of any sort, a flip or any of that $hit.
Who cares about his sport of choice...really. The dude died participating in a sport that he likely loved. Still totally sad. RIP Caleb. Oh yeah, I am waiting for the ban the snowmobile folks start preaching how snowmobiles are too dangerous and need new regulations blah blah
Thank's donini, I meant no disrespect to the athlete, just that as long as these companys keep paying young guy's to perform this crazy sh#t we'll probably just keep seeing more of the same. hell his own brother got effed up at the same event.
Completely agree with this.
But not when it's phrased like this;
This has to be one of the lamest sports ever. I'm sorry for the loss but what's next,convertable car jumping?
This is exactly the same thing as soloing dude. Putting yourself in a fatal position because you're positive you can pull it off. Do you have any idea how many backflips Caleb had survived to this point?? 3 x-games titles to his name plus numerous other comps.
You might as well say Bachar was a putz and Honnold is an idiot. And to trash an entire sport based on one incident? What if someone had said that about climbing after JB's passing???
No disrespect to either of those guys. Just trying to point out to Kenny what he sounds like.
Too much of this crap going on for sure. 200 foot gaps are standard fare in the snowboard world these days.. wont be long.. Sarah Burke died skiing in the pipe last year, John Jack and a bunch of other guys in the tunnel creek incident..
Shayne McConkey, Jamie Pierre, Craig Kelly, Cr Johnson, Doug Coobs... Not to mention all the climbers, moto racers, boxers, wrestlers ect ect.
No disrespect to anyone I didn't mention as obviously there are many.
Point is, sh!ts getting crazy these days and people better start thinking about how far things can really be pushed before it's simply a death sentence every other attempt. This goes for a lot of sports.
I know when I push the limits riding a gnarly close out line where death is one wrong turn away, or one avalanche, I've fully accepted my choice and ALL its potential outcomes.
I feel most of the people in these sports feel the same way I do at least I hope they realize the consequences of their actions. Kenny you are right though, they should not allow themselves to be pushed to the point of no return.
Where do we draw the line tho? Are we going to have a nanny state and make sure everyone is safe?
I had a holiday, far away, to a place one can't say, to an American, these days...
Spent a lot of my own money getting there and back to be part of something big. Sweating afterwards in the Islamabad airport knowing I would get an occasional sandwich on the flight west to Istanbul, Munich, New York, Seattle then to Vancouver was cause for celebration. At least the plane ticket was bought in advance !
Humility and opportunity cross roads when you're a world away from home with $20.00 in pocket in between.
The trip was fraught but had it's many great moments as any great game does. There was an obligation to come back with the STORY for some of the individuals comprising the group.
They got up high and barely came back alive. I don't know how important things can be, because Greg and I paid as we went and didn't have to feel obligated to anything. The other Greg and Mark really made an exemplary effort to achieve.
It's a good idea to pay your own shot and not have to feel your life is something to gamble with in order to fulfill a contract.
It'd be the same as soloing if you were hot-dogging it up the route.
I've never known Bachar and Honnold get into trouble while show-boating.
The guy on the snowmobile didn't just drive straight up and straight down the hill, keeping contact to the ground like you would if you were going from point-a to point-b. He hit the hill as hot as he could, and attempted a backwards loop-the-loop.
Chick Hearn would have said "Mustard's off the hot dog!"
I think the anology to doing back-flips in a convertible is a good one. Just like convertibles, snowmobiles were designed to transport people from point-a to point-b. They were not designed to fly, which is why you have to fly one, if you want to use one to draw attention to yourself ( hot dogging ).
I've never understood why anybody would get a vehicle capable of taking you hundreds of miles in any direction, and be content to drive the thing around in circles. Up the hill, down the hill, up the hill, down the hill, up the hill, down the hill, getting no where. Like a dog chasing its own tail! Never to travel even a half-mile from where they parked.
As foolish as I think these dog-chasing-its-own-tail, how-cool-did-that-look?- sports are, I hate to see anybody get hurt doing one.
It's arrogance to think that somehow this sport is stupid but climbing isn't. You don't know why he did his sport or what it meant to him. Yes sponsors pay him money but how many expeditions got sponsored by TNF only to lose climbers, or worse yet sherpas who are using the money to support their families?
Some people want to live their lives risking it all on the world stage. Absolutely he knew the risks involved, but he took them because he was a conscious person pursuing his passion, Red Bull or not.
Several good points on this thread (let's just pretend Kenny is not posting.)
I never really thought about how the progression of climbing is unique compared to other sports. In the world of "extreme sports" climbing is waaaaay old. With the advances in gear climbing is getting safer (with the exception of certain tactics used in speed climbing.)
However, in the newer sports, gear advances are creating a bar that is rising at an incredible level. I have a ski movie where a skier is talking about how a few years ago if you fell freesking you only had to worry about breaking bones. Now it is accepted that the top level athletes are doing drops where death is a big part of the equation.
The convertible comparison is way off. Those sleds way 450lbs and have more horsepower than most cars not to mention huge travel in the suspension. The hoersepower to weight ratio on those vehicles is mind boggling and created solely for jumps.
Growing up in my household I hated OHV's with a passion. After the first time I caught air on a sled I bought one the next day. It's really a lot of fun (if yer into that kind of thing.) What Caleb was doing was way off the charts compared to his colleagues.
For climbers to throw stones at these people is absurd. All you can complain about is the environmental impact, which is a perfectly valid point (see Blue Camalots post.) But please do not call what Caleb was doing stupid, because you climb for a lot of the same reasons that he snowmobiled.
Kenny I'm over it. You have a right to your opinion obviously. I was composing my post while you posted your retraction.
I'm sorry but the opinion that someone who died doing something they love is stupid doesn't fly for me. Your argument doesn't fly either Chaz. Soloing is a calculated risk just like flipping a sled. Just because you did it once doesn't necessarily mean that you will pull it off next time.
You can't control all the factors in either situation. To judge one less risky than the other is ridiculous.
I've never understood why anybody would get a vehicle capable of taking you hundreds of miles in any direction, and be content to drive the thing around in circles. Up the hill, down the hill, up the hill, down the hill, up the hill, down the hill, getting no where. Like a dog chasing its own tail! Never to travel even a half-mile from where they parked.
Not all of us sled like this either. Some if us use our machines to access the snow on our skis and boards and also I like to ride my sled down the same lines we ski and snowboard! Obviously mostly straightforward chutes and bowls and cornice drops but still amazing!!
Some of us have respect for the snow too, and don't high mark ski slopes because we know what hitting frozen high marks at high speed feels like.
I'm no personal friend of anyone here except Big Mike. Still, if you go back to Kennyt's original sentiment by way of post, it was about the rush to achieve something that had the weight of sponsorship as a driver.
I can only speak for the corporations that have made me do things for money by way of work and they weren't caring and sharing in pursuit of a goal. I'm talking about retail sales as#@&%es.
There is no difference between some middle management coffee whore project manager and a "Sports drink" caffeine dealer project manager party organizer.
The bottom line depends on spectacle for an ideal that only the gifted are able to achieve.
Sponsorship pushes people to do unrealistic things.
Very good point that I did not address in my first point. I absolutely agree with you in that sponsorships make people do dangerous things for the wrong reasons.
I have met a lot of these "Red Bull" type athletes. From my experience, it's about 50/50 between the guys who are just trying to pursue their passion and the guys who have more money oriented motivations.
Ahem...
It took me three tries to say that last part nicely.
It's a good idea to pay your own shot and not have to feel your life is something to gamble with in order to fulfill a contract.
Once again Jim B, this is great wisdom.
RIP Caleb. That was really strange to watch & I don't know how I feel about it & how it's so easy to see that moment which seems so inappropriate in this medium.
I agree that this is like soloing.The obvious difference is that there never has been & hopefully never will be an organized, sponsored, mass broadcasted & marketed, globally corporate freesoloing contest.
Not sure what X gheymz can do to prevent this in the future like they say unless they want to take the X out & start broadcasting jenga competitions. If they made a no backflip rule nobody would watch since their entire audience thinks backflips in any form are the most BITCHEN thing ever. Thing that really sucks is that this was likely a stock jump for him & his attention glanced for just a fraction of a second. That's happened to all of us so as Donini said (more wisdom)
Regardless....the passing of a 25 year old, in the prime of his life, is grounds for all to pause and reflect on the fragility of life and the pain that such an event visits on loved ones.
climbing is not an extreme sport - in a way it is the opposite of an extreme sport.
I have always considered the X-games to be a bit of an abomination.
I don't watch that stuff or pay attention but it seems like a lot of really incredible winter x-games athletes are dying or getting hurt badly every year. None of these people are going to have healthy bodies even in middle age - what most of them are doing is just not conducive to life.
To a lesser extent it is the same thing that has occurred in Football and Hockey - the Human body can not withstand the forces of what is required for these modern sports - there are a variety of reasons why - money, steroids, money, protective equipment that protects the elbow but not the brain, money,media, c*#ks@ckers who don't give a sh#t about the athletes they are promoting, money, money money,
Amazing athletes dying in their 20's because they are ultimately promoting a corporations bottom line is rong.
Snowmobiling use to be an old farts hobby akin to sitting on one of those coin operated horses in front of k-mart...Now they are seen in the back of every snow-boarding , goggle wearing , trust funders brand new Tundra with urban assault rims ...It's all about the marketing , image , and environemental destruction....Tragic and sad for everyone involved that this young guy had to die doing something so stupid....
Rain, rain, rain, I don’t mind , the weathers fine
I take my umbrella and hide my mind
Live in a world of all my kind
Bobby Fischer pivots his thumbs but is no friend of mine
Iambic pentameter could be a friend of mine
But I can’t see past the tribe of mine.
Remember all our friends that didn't make it out of their 20s. Most of us in climbing watched a lot of bright stars go dark. Regardless of the activity, when we were that age, we were wired for craziness and most of us were lucky.
They don't fight wars with senior citizens or old climbers...
What a bunch of pantywad posers, posting opinions on topics they not only don't understand, but cannot fathom.
In the sixties, I skied on the edge of insanity, only to have my feats outdone by many by the mid seventies. Way outdone.
In the late eighties, I got into an extreme form of snowmobileing. By the nineties I was professionaly hillclimbing, and doing things with one of those sinful machines considered to be insane and extreme. I even made a few dollars winning in the senior classes. These guys doing what they are doing today, are as out there on the edge as far as any soloist has ever been. The talent and skill is truly mind boggling. To try to understand how far beyond my ability they have gone is nearly impossible for me to comprehend. To a layman or armchair athlete, impossible.
Rest in peace young man, you hung your toes over the edge, more than almost all others. Just came up short to the predictable tragic end.
I slowed down now and took up safer activities in the later years, big wall, etc..
Rotting johnny, where's my trust fund?.......eeeyyyyiiii ..... Norweegan....you have no clue , ever ride?
edit: a f*#k all you spadex clad, tassel hatted, skinny/skate ski whinners who cry when thier PERFECTLY GROOMED skate track gets a dog print ( how much diesel does it take for your run?), on public land....... from a snowboarding, goggle clad, snomobiling ( non- trust funder, damn) backcountry rider.......... just kidding.......kinda
edit:edit: except for Maysho.....that man is truley a BAD ASS.....:)
People get pissed off at the all terrain fart machines is all. One day relaxing with my baby at the hot springs outside Mammoth, this gang of ATV f*#ks go (t)rolling by in an area designated against OHV use. They built the damn walkway for a reason! Lame on many fronts.
But if getting an abominably big truck with the monster energy drink logo scrawled across the back window to haul your rig up the mountain so you can pretend you're Luke Skywalker on the Forest of Endor is what lights your fire? Well, I guess you gotta do what you gotta do. It's kind of an a-hole thing as much as it's pretty damn cool to be an unabashed a-hole sometimes, and I don't doubt the prudish monster of green-eyed jealousy spurs some of the hatin'.
RIP to brah, by the way. May brosephus maximus shred the gnar always.
I have to take issue with Jim's assertion that climbers are into self propelled sports.
It is like claiming that downhill skiers at the resorts is non-motorized.
Climbers have huge carbon footprints. Some even migrate annually tens of thousands of miles!
And that doesn't even take into account the ethical lapse of doing marathon drives to climb that leaves exhausted climbers driving home drowsy.
I ain't very envoiromentally astute, but always kind of associated sleds with the mountains or whatever. Heard about people doing clandestine expeditions into the Ritter Range etc on them, and they are used for accessing rock/ climbs in the Springtime.
Let us know!