Possession of a "Controlled substance" in Yosemite...

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jcory86

Big Wall climber
Grass Valley, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 31, 2013 - 01:30am PT
Hey Tacoers,
Headed down to the valley this weekend to go and visit the courthouse. Not for fun. I will be climbing Skull Queen on Monday hopefully in 16 hours car to car, which will be fun, but Tuesday is a different story. I have to appear for a citation I got last year for having a "controlled substance" in my possession. I abide by California laws and have a medicinal cannabis recommendation but that doesn't mean squat in the valley, ie: federal land.
What I'm getting at is; has anyone ever dealt with this and if so how did you deal with it and
what were your reprocussions?
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:35am PT
My exgirlfriend paid a near $200 fine (well actually I paid it for her since she was broke)

I got off scott free except for that.

The LEO who nailed us fell in a creek up to his neck in ICY water on the way back to our car to check our IDs

Gotta love the 4th of July, Independance day in Tuolumne.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:36am PT
Monday hopefully in 16 hours car to car


the spray! my eyes!
Meagher

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:45am PT
Yer Gonna Die!!!!
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:55am PT
Life - without parole.
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:58am PT
Lame. Point out the fact that you helped save my life last year, that far outweighs this lame bullsh#t.

You want me to show up and tell them myself?

Hope this works out ok for you man. Looking forward to the report on SQ, that's on my list as a high candidate for my first Valley attempt.
Michelle

Social climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:59am PT
sounds like you're setting up a good alibi for missing your court appearance.
Comicscragsman

Social climber
Jan 31, 2013 - 02:30am PT
Mailed in $275 for a ticket I got in Lassen Nat'l Park from some tool a$$ ranger. No respect for my CA medical permit from the federales. Lucky I didn't have to go to court.

Those feds are getting potatoes in their tailpipes next time I's in Lassen Park.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 31, 2013 - 02:38am PT
I always like to play dumb with as little of an attitude as I can muster. Never been in that situation, but I can't imagine it will be that serious if you aren't/weren't a dick.


I got pulled over in Arches when I was 18. Had a bag of weed (hidden), 20 hits (minus the ones we ate earlier that day), and 2 case of beer sitting on the floor. The officer told me to come back to his car.

Cop: "I see the Dead stickers on your truck. Are you a "Dead Head?"

Me: "Uh, I like their music, but I don't know if I'm a "Dead Head."

Cop: "Well, you are wearing a tie die. How many shows have you been to?"

Me: "I went to my first show last month in Mountain View."

Cop: "Sh#t man, I was supposed to be at that show! My friend's totally bailed at the last minute. How was it? Wow, your first show, that must have been awesome."

Long story short... he called a tow truck and we were on our way.
John M

climber
Jan 31, 2013 - 05:22am PT
I got pulled over in Arches when I was 18.

Long story short... he called a tow truck and we were on our way.

I'm sorry Wes, but your story doesn't add up. This requires a beating from the village. Beatings will commence shortly.. Everyone have their whistle and their rocks?
jcory86

Big Wall climber
Grass Valley, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2013 - 06:51am PT
GDavis- my spray is strong. Stings the nostrils. Make that 14 hours CTC!
Meagher- is that you Jeff?
Vegasclimber- Thanks man! I'll be posting a couple up soon. I think it will work out alright.
Michelle-always need an alibi.
Comiccragsman- packin my spuds in the haulbag for the federales!

Thanks for the help tacoists.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Jan 31, 2013 - 08:22am PT
where a go-pro for the climb and the court appearance, post both up here, otherwise neither happened.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 31, 2013 - 08:39am PT
Tell the judge it was bunk weed and he might have some smpathy...?
mastadon

Trad climber
crack addict
Jan 31, 2013 - 08:58am PT

At least you won't see this guy. He was the Yosemite federal prosecutor in the 70's and early 80's. I'm sure there are some fellow Taco Dwellers who recognize him....



GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:09am PT
^^^^^^ Maybe our resident pedo can make that into T-shirts?
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:24am PT
couple years back me and a dude got caught after smoking in zion national park on our walk back out from our spot. i never got in trouble cause we werent in the act and i didnt have any on me, but my friend had to return to Utah ( we were from cali ) on april 20th for his court date to pay a fine of 1,000 dollars. he had all of, like, a gram.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:26am PT
"Especially on federal property, users of MMJ should inhale with caution. Every year citations are issued for people smoking pot on national-forest lands in Colorado, including in the San Juans, despite state permission for its limited use, said Brian Vicente, a lawyer with Sensible Colorado, which monitors and promotes MMJ laws.

“We hear from five or six medical-marijuana patients per year who were cited for smoking marijuana on federal lands, usually at a designated campsite,” Vicente said. “In court the charges are often dismissed because it is not considered a priority.”

That is largely due to a national directive by President Obama instructing federal attorneys to avoid using funds to prosecute the legitimate sale and use of medical marijuana in states where it has been legalized. The directive, called the Ogden memo, is not legally binding, and it is still up to the officers’ discretion whether to cite users of MMJ.

“When tickets are issued on federal land, we see this as federal agents not listening to the will of Washington, so it would be worth considering fighting the ticket by going to court and holding up the memo that medical-marijuana patients are not supposed to be prosecuted,” Vicente said."...





^^^

Worth a TRY???...

dave

climber
Earth
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:26am PT
I bet he never thinks of 420 the same again
TwistedCrank

climber
Dingleberry Gulch, Ideeho
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:26am PT
I hope you know that this will go down on your permanent record.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
It sure will be nice in 5 to 20 years when this version of prohibition is gone. But for now we have to deal with the government overstepping it's legitimate bounds by harrassing/imprisoning good citizens unreasonably.

Just because something is the law doesn't always make it right.. but you still have to pay damn close attention or risk being burned.

Frustrating to see the nation I love do bad things to people and take so long to change to what is right.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
John M, not sure what you mean... did I leave too much of the long story out? Perhaps the following details will help clarify things: battery died, truck wouldn't even jump, and a crazy old man insisted on PUSHING us back to town with the grill of his truck rather than towing us... which is why we got pulled over and why I the cop called the tow truck for us.
dave

climber
Earth
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
why I the cop

Damn so you were the cop who pulled yourself over and then discussed with yourself about the dead shows you have and have not been to? That 1 dose you had must have been GUD.


Lingering affects?



Just messing with you.
John M

climber
Jan 31, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Thats a likely story Wes.. . suuuure it happened that way. I have pictures of all the old people and none of them look like they would have pushed you with their trucks. Nice old grampas and grandmas. Your just trying to make them look bad so that you can get sympathy. Prepare for a beat down.












just messing with you Wes.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Jan 31, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
Christ, I need more coffee and more controlled substances... it is going to be a long day.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 31, 2013 - 02:17pm PT
That is largely due to a national directive by President Obama instructing federal attorneys to avoid using funds to prosecute the legitimate sale and use of medical marijuana in states where it has been legalized. The directive, called the Ogden memo, is not legally binding, and it is still up to the officers’ discretion whether to cite users of MMJ.

That's interesting considering that DOJ has been very active in Ca trying to seize properties from banks who own mini-malls or the like which have a Ca legal dispensary. In most cases the banks are not even aware, until legal proceedings are brought, since they use property management companies to handle the leases.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 31, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
Like it says. It is not legally binding. Basically you are at the mercy of the court. Judges discretion. You enhance your chances of being dismissed by showing up dressed respectfully and having a reasonable demeanor. Maybe the judge will be cool.. maybe you'll be addressed for 2 minutes and have to pay the fine.

Might as well try to get out of it.
#310

Social climber
Telluride, CO
Jan 31, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Yosemite is one of a very few National Parks that has exclusive jurisdiction. Only Federal laws apply - not California state laws. Some rangers have to enforce laws they do not believe in. Be polite and hope the judge just gives you a lowish fine.

The good side of exclusive jurisdiction is YOSAR and Werner can run their missions without "help" from the various county sheriff's departments.

A former Valley Ranger who never made a drug citation/arrest w/o out a flaw that a smart lawyer would find.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jan 31, 2013 - 03:51pm PT
Very interesting. I dont know how or if state laws apply in national parks, reminds me of Indian reservations, where the fed's have authority. But the feds never prosecute mj possession anywhere else.

I'd say, argue not guilty by way of the medical necessity defense. You will need a lawyer, I don't know if its been tried before but worth checking into. Has any other mmj patient in CA been convicted of this? Figure out if its a citation, like a traffic infraction, or a real criminal conviction. You want to have a clean criminal record so you can be employable in the future.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 31, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
The President really cannot direct a Federal prosecutor to not prosecute a crime... not really, can he?

Its an illegal order, for the most part, a political statement with no teeth at all, made for show, by a guy who isn't going to confront this issue nationally.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jan 31, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
I'd say, argue not guilty by way of the medical necessity defense. You will need a lawyer, I don't know if its been tried before but worth checking into.

What's your typical lawyer fee run for a defense in a Federal prosecution?

What's the fine again?

The math seems quite simple. If it was a matter of principle the bloke wouldnta had the smokable on Federal property so don't go all high and mighty on this. Take yer licks and move on.

Or don't... make a big Federal case out of it and lose big time, instead of small time.

DMT
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 31, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
I'm not even on the toke train anymore, but this repression has gone on long enough. Anybody imprisoned for marijuana possession is wrongly imprisoned. It is simply out of step with the perception of most Americans nowadays. Legalize it, tax it, and move on.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jan 31, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
Regarding that "Ogden Memo" cited above. It appears that the memo, which was written in 2009 by a Deputy Attorney General named Ogden, has been "clarified." Obama has appointed Michelle Leonhart, a Bush holdover and anti medical marijuana hard liner to head DEA. At the same time DOJ is going after the sellers, but it looks like casual users are off their horizon.

You might want to sit down with someone who knows the law and read the whole Ogden memo, and it's revision by Dep. Att. Gen James Cole. There might still be an argument in your favor in there.

Two points of view:

Rolling Stone

Reason.com
jcory86

Big Wall climber
Grass Valley, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 31, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
Thanks everyone,
I think it will work out. I'm a clean cut guy as it is and was polite/cooperative with the rangers. I plan on being apologetic and earnest in expressing my love for Yosemite. I made a mistake by briging it into the valley. It will never happen again...etc. will post up a TR about the climb and the court proceedings!
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jan 31, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
YER GONNA DIE!
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Jan 31, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
...."this aggression will not stand, man!"
WTF

climber
Jan 31, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time or pay the fine pretty simple own your sh#t and move forward.

Bargainhunter

climber
Jan 31, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
Please post about your experience in court. I am curious about what your penalty will be. Best of luck!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jan 31, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
best of luck, we'll burn one if you ever make it my way :) lol.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jan 31, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
WTF, who owns your body and can tell you what to put in it,.. the government or,..YOU!

Is this a free country?
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Jan 31, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
You know, when you're facing a federal crime, I'm not sure that representing yourself is a sound idea...seriously, please consult with an attorney tomorrow before you decide to throw yourself on the mercy of the court.
crock

Trad climber
The Windiest Mountain, Wyoming
Jan 31, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
Absolutely get an attorney.

I've got a friend, a climber, who spent five years in a Federal penitentiary for marijuana possession in a different Federal park. They got him to plea because it was a minor crime, with no real consequences, and then got the five years added on for another minor infraction, which combined with the possession was a big deal.

They didn't even mention they planned to prosecute for the second offense until they had the confession in hand. They set him up.

Five years! He spent five years in prison! That's worth a few hundred bucks for the attorney. If he'd have had one nothing would have happened to him at all.
Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Jan 31, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
You know, when you're facing a federal crime


I agree, the fine may be insignificant, but the legal consequences may haunt you all your life. At least consult a reputable lawyer for advice.

I don’t know US law but a felony conviction may hinder your ability to travel and seek future employment. If you can’t decide what to do, ask for a postponement to seek legal council before you commit to anything.

As a felon you would have trouble even visiting Canada, if the border guard decides to look closer in your background.

Good luck, what a screwed up system.
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
This conviction, and it wil be that, will prevent you from EVER entering Canada to climb...please, talk to an attorney before you go to court. At the least, DO NOT TAKE A PLEA. Ask for an extension to consult with an attorney. You don't have to do anything on Tuesday but ask for time, or plead not guilty.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jan 31, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
^^^^^^That...

Please listen to those words.
strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:06am PT
Sorry to hear that. I've often wondered about the grey area in California regarding medical marijuna in national parks/federal land.

I was pulled over in Joshua tree a few years back for running the stop sign leaving barker dam. The LEO asked me to get out of my truck, and asked me if I had any "illegal drugs". I told him, no, I didn't have any illegal drugs, which was true, and he asked to search my car. After asking to see a warrant, he told me we could "sit here all night, until he got one" blah blah... I stood my ground and he let me go, following me all the way to the exit.

The next week I called curt saur, who was the park superintendent at the time, and after a few attempts to reach him, he told me that as long as someone wasn't blatantly smoking around other people, and no one was driving while medicated, it was pretty much a moot point. It seemed like it was a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of thing.

Again, sorry you have to go through this, and as stated up thread, I'd ask for an extension and seek the advice of a lawyer. The statement about not being allowed into canda is completely true.

Best of luck.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:15am PT
Back around '77 or so I got busted cold with a bunch of first-generation seedless fallbrook homegrown. Cop had never seen anything like it, and and did not believe it was reefer. He let me go and I got to keep the pot!
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:22am PT
This all sounds so horrific compared to my $50 citation for such in 1978 whilst OB camping in Curry Orchard in a VW van. $50 was painful for me then, but I sent it in and never looked back. The details are a comical story that have stood the test of time and have never amounted to any consequence whatsoever. If they make a big deal out of this, then crime has dropped to an all-time low and they are really hard up for cases to prosecute. Treat it seriously, but don't overdo it. Lawyer? I wouldn't bother wasting $4,000 at least.
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Feb 1, 2013 - 02:36am PT
I wad tooled in Yosemite in May of '85 on a failure to appear warrant for a fix it ticket. I worked for the National Security Agency. It caused me no frigging end of grief for nothing more than a missing front license plate. Trust me, plead not guilty, get a lawyer and let her deal with it. Do not take a misdemeanor plea.
WTF

climber
Feb 1, 2013 - 08:37am PT
Toker

I own it but I also own my mind which tells me that if I bring weed into national park that the Feds control and I get caught I'm going to federal court not state court and you have to be a moron to not know its all biz in the federal systems of justice.

Any retard who thinks he's going to tell a,federal judge he has a state medical card should be put in jail for stupidity not weed.



Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 1, 2013 - 09:43am PT
“In court the charges are often dismissed because it is not considered a priority.”

Locker, that sounds like Washington DC. For a few years after law school I was on the norml legal team, with my phone number on their website for people to call when they got busted. It was more comical than anything else, mostly college kid / dorm room type stuff. After the first couple of them, I learned that all mj possession cases in DC are "no papered", ie dismissed. The prosecutor shows up each morning with something like 50 case files and these are a waste of time. So then when people called I told them, just show up and in the unlikely event the case is actually prosecuted, ask the judge for a continuance while you look for a lawyer. For the next ten or so people who called me, this worked and I never charged any of them.* After I had enough of this I asked them to take my name off their website, sorry but there are bigger fish to fry.

DMT - yes the President can tell DOJ not to prosecute certain people or crimes. In the US prosecutors have total discretion whether to prosecute or not, which means their boss can tell them what to do. It's a shitty system that doesn't work well. In most other countries, crime victims have rights and can start a criminal prosecution on their own, it's not within the discretion of the prosecutors.

* PS - apparantly I could have charged them $4000 each.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Feb 1, 2013 - 09:53am PT
What Coz said about Canada....they won't let you in. All sorts of potential ramifications. A lawyer is a must!
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 1, 2013 - 10:22am PT
^^ Is this true even if it's a misdemeanor infraction or only if a felony?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 1, 2013 - 10:33am PT
jcory86, I'd listen to those about advising a lawyer and an extension, and heck if you can get it deferred to Fresno, do it.

At least visit a lawyer and get an opinion. The others are right, and it will not only be Canada, but also other countries may not allow you permit to enter. I just know that with a federal conviction, it sends red flags up to immigration/customs officers in countries, and remember, with computers, they can check fast.

I don't know about the $4,000 legal fees figure mentioned, but if it is in that ballpark and it increases your chances of no conviction, it may well be worth it, if you can afford it that is.

I am not a lawyer nor have a legal background, but even if it was a misdemeanor, a federal conviction still spells trouble.

Don't take a plea, is my non-legal advice.

(And no I have never had any sort of conviction of any kind, okay traffic school maybe.)
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:38am PT
Some great advice here, good one Coz.
#310

Social climber
Telluride, CO
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
Most National Parks have concurrent or shared jurisdiction - so state laws might overrule differing Federal laws. There are only two National Parks that have exclusive jurisdiction that negates the state laws. The two parks are Yosemite and Yellowstone - both created before the states they are in were granted statehood. Complicated.

You can ask for a Federal Public Defender and get free legal counsel. You have to show that your are "poor". My nephew is one of the Federal Public Defenders in Fresno. He started out with Yosemite cases but has "graduated" to bigger felony drug dealer cases. Carol Moses is one of the best defense lawyers in the area.

It has been 35 years since I was a Valley ranger but the legal weirdness has not changed. When you are in Yosemite, you are not really in California. Yosemite is one of the few parks to have its own license plates!

Get a lawyer - the same situation in a different National Park might be less serious.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
After this is all over please post the name of this ranger.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
WTF,
I actually have a mind too. In addition I have experience with the feds, a battery of good lawyers, and an excellent relationship with them.

But I am the Toker Villain and, as long as I still have that right, I will exercise freedom of speech to question authority over this issue.

People who simply submit actually encourage authoritarian abuse.

The drug laws were born of racism anyway.
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Feb 1, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
I remember when Carol Moses was was a ranger perusing the Curry Village parking lot "under-cover" looking for said activities that the OP is going to court for. Ironic......
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 1, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
...then got the five years added on for another minor infraction

and the other minor infraction was?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 1, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
After this is all over please post the name of this ranger.

Yes, because this action will become known, particularly as a agreed-upon discussion among climbers, and for the rest of their career, they will go OUT OF THEIR WAY to tool any climber they encounter.

Probably their colleagues, as well.

Setting up a "us vs them" type of situation is a very bad idea, when the other side is the only one with guns and a ticket book.
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
Urgent - check your email.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Feb 2, 2013 - 11:25am PT
Ken if they go out of their way to tool climbers, each time they do it & don't find anything & don't write a ticket & have a complaints filled against them it goes on their record & that is the way you get them transferred -- to the Salton Sea.
pyro

Big Wall climber
Calabasas
Feb 2, 2013 - 11:42am PT
in 99' i got busted for having an 1 OZ of durty mexican weed in my haulbag. they dropped the charge for the weed and gave me time for lighting yosemite on fire. ohh well they don't call me pyro for nothing.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 2, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
Ken if they go out of their way to tool climbers, each time they do it & don't find anything & don't write a ticket & have a complaints filled against them it goes on their record & that is the way you get them transferred -- to the Salton Sea.

Frumy, if you think they won't find something if they want to, you live in a fantasy world. They have all the power.

the first time that they perceive that what you describe is a conspired process, you can guarantee that you will be found to have maryjane in your car, and all your climbing gear will be confiscated.

DO NOT get into a power fight with cops.
BJ

climber
Feb 2, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Way back when, circa about 1978, there was a blurb in Climbing about a active first ascensionist in SW Utah who was busted by the NPS rangers for pocession of marijuana. The probable cause was that the rangers could see marijuana seeds on the floor boards of the offenders car.

I've always wondered how that turned out.

Maybe i'll find out here.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Feb 2, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
Ken I never get into a power struggle with law enforcement. I wait till it's over then I attack. I am on the phone to their superiors & then my lawyer is. I have had several Los Angeles Sheriff deputies forced to write me a letter of apology. It is permanently on their record, & they will never get a promotion. In todays world of cellphone cameras they would be out of their mind to plant pot on someone. & most aren't dumb, they aren't going to put their job an the line, much less their freedom.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 2, 2013 - 08:56pm PT
Ken I never get into a power struggle with law enforcement. I wait till it's over then I attack. I am on the phone to their superiors & then my lawyer is. I have had several Los Angeles Sheriff deputies forced to write me a letter of apology. It is permanently on their record, & they will never get a promotion. In todays world of cellphone cameras they would be out of their mind to plant pot on someone. & most aren't dumb, they aren't going to put their job an the line, much less their freedom.

That's a fine PERSONAL attitude, though rather near-sighted.

Let me give you the example of a buddy of mine, Bernard. For 20 years in YOUR COMMUNITY, he has been the subject of a nearly weekly traffic stop, that results in no ticket. He drives a nice car, but he belongs to a particular group that can be spotted from some distance.

you are now not posting as an individual, but as a member of a group, climbers. We are talking about stops in the Nat'l park, by federales. IF the federal LEO's think that the climbers, as a group, are setting them up, I shudder to think what can come down on our fellow ST'ers. I doubt that most "have a lawyer" waiting around to do their bidding. And you better worry about cameras, too. Because when you make your exaggerated phone calls, when they don't match the tape, you're fried.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Feb 2, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
jcory, i have recent experience with this. not sure why you are not being issued a $250 ticket. if you have to go to court, you will likely have a chance to have andras farkus, the public defender, help you out for free. pay the ticket and it should go off your record. it is unlikely you would be able to get it referred to fresno, since you would have to prove there is bias against you from judge seng, a judge you likely have never met, and thus would have no bias against you. a nice plea bargain should be in the works for you, they dont want to take it to trial. ss
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 3, 2013 - 09:20am PT
shipoopoi, sounds sensible to me, as long as he can get the advice/help of a lawyer like Farkus.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
Feb 3, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Ken my community is policed by three departments. The CHP which is a highly trained & disciplined police force. All it takes is a few legitimate complaints from the same group of like people ( bikers ) for example & that officer will be stop from pulling over said group. The LAPD also is a highly trained police force & almost all of them know better. The third the L.A. sheriffs dept. which isn't train well enough & does make dumb mistakes at times, has been under the eye of the U.S. justice dept. for most of the last decade. If your friend documented this harassment & complains to there superiors & tells them he is sending the documentation to the Justice dept. it would stop & the officers involved would be transferred. If he does nothing it will continue.
The two Sheriffs deputies that were stopping me in the Angeles National forest anytime they saw me, now see my truck or me & my dogs & they immediately drive off.
John M

climber
Feb 3, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
pay the ticket and it should go off your record.

shippopi.. do you know this for certain?

I'm not an expert, but I thought that if you paid the ticket, then it goes on your record as a conviction. Paying the ticket means you admit guilt.. And its my understanding that federal records are difficult to expunge. Unless the judge orders it to be expungable after x amount of time.

It would be nice if an expert would comment on this.

A Canadian who won tickets to the super bowl was denied entrance to America because of a 32 year old 2 gram marijuana conviction.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/canadian-man-wins-contest-attend-super-bowl-not-210921980--nfl.html
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Feb 3, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
Well BJ, I remember a case in '78 that happened in Colorado National Monument.

The Chief Ranger untied a backup rope and tossed it over the edge. When the climber, a long haired hippy type who owned no guns, went to talk with the CR, named Henry Schock, he was told (on March 23rd at 10:30am) that the next time he would SHOOT the rope down.
This statement was later confirmed by him to Mike Kennedy, then editor of Climbing.

On March 28, while said climber was on the 2nd ascent of Angular Motion, Schock and another ranger broke into the climbers car, confirmed a stash, then closed it up and obtained a warrant on the basis of "seeds visible".
They didn't know that they had been seen breaking in before obtaining a warrant.

When the climber returned he was taken to lockup and his partner took his car home.

The next morning he was released with a ticket that eventually cost $50.

When he got to his partner's house and looked in the car he found his chamber pipe still loaded and nestled between the front seat and the drive shaft housing. He also found his main stash untouched.
They had only found his "ready" bag, and in their excitement neglected a thorough search!

Oh,... and that business about threatening to shoot at the ropes of a climber that owned no guns,...

Do you think he still doesn't own any guns?

But they DID get $50.

Do you think they still count that one as a win?
NoTokeRedKneck

climber
Feb 3, 2013 - 09:57pm PT
I don't think there should be a issue if you have a real prescription
from a real doctor.

My understanding is that Marijuana prior to CA. was declared a
control substance by US law.

A recommendation is not necessarily a prescription. My buddy knocked
a cop on his ass, I was about to do the same to the other until he
got a badge out. My buddy went to jail I was cited for weed. The cop
was knocked on his ass for being under cover and not id'ing himself
prior to taking a joint from the buddy about 100 lbs larger than the
cop. My Buddy went to Jail I was site released. My Buddy and his
girlfriend who was there showed up at my arraignment to testify I did
not smoke weed and to testify that it was their weed, which it was
and I really don't and didn't smoke weed then. I was fined $10.00
which I took over trial, but past 1999 I would take trial over the
$10.00 fine, especially if you plan on a future home loan from Fanny
Mae or Sally Mae.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Feb 3, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
310 said
Yosemite is one of a very few National Parks that has exclusive jurisdiction. Only Federal laws apply - not California state laws. Some rangers have to enforce laws they do not believe in. Be polite and hope the judge just gives you a lowish fine.


When I lived there there was a rumor that one could request for a hearing to be moved to the related California State court. People often cited that possibility as a loophole for getting more lenient treatment if you were caught in Yosemite with marijuana. I never saw anything to back that up but that seemed to be a popular idea.
NoTokeRedKneck

climber
Feb 4, 2013 - 12:22am PT
I think it's also a misdemeanor for a small amount under US law, and they
can probably treat it as such as they do with municipal types in state
court though not state crimes, and with a limit I think of around $400.00.

That brings up a interesting legal issue to me about possibly motion for
leave to defend, though I doubt a motion for change of venue other than
for a closer jurisdictional US court would be proper and there's doubt
about motion to defend. Some ICE agents however in OC told me they now
turn prisoners over to state custody with some charges.

It's a CA. state judge who told me about the home loan issues. From what
he said it does not matter if the conviction is in a state court or US
court. If you live close and it's a small amount maybe the motions are
not worth your time and money. If your not guilty US court as I know is a
6 person jury requiring all 6 to agree, and CA. court is a 12 person jury
requiring 9 to agree to render verdicts.
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:00am PT
If you accept a misdemeanor fine, your are pleading guilty. You can give up traveling to Canada, the U.K., and most of the E.U. Have fun with that. Trust me, talk with a lawyer before you plead to anything.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:14am PT
I don't think there should be a issue if you have a real prescription
from a real doctor.


real doctors know that they CANNOT write prescriptions for grass...it is illegal.

Doctors can ONLY write recommendations, at least in CA.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Feb 4, 2013 - 02:19am PT
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/02/03/bc-superbowl-fan-denied-us-entry.html



Yeah, each country doesn't like to admit anyone who has been caught with weed.



But somehow you have 11 million illegal aliens who have snuck in? I wonder if any of them have anything to do with weed?


Best of luck to you!
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 03:37am PT
Hey, I'm not claiming that any of this makes sense. I'm saying that you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT a Misdemeanor conviction on your record. If they want to indict, ask for a continuance. If you can afford a lawyer, get one. If you cannot, ask for a P.D. A misdemeanor conviction will f**k you up. Any advice to the contrary is b.s.
shipoopoi

Big Wall climber
oakland
Feb 4, 2013 - 08:46am PT
john m, pretty darn sure that is the case. like when foreigners get basted for a $250 pot fine, part of the incentive to pay is that it will not go on your record, so that you CAN reenter the country. if, as a foreingner, you fight the ticket and lose, then it does go on your recond and you can forget about coming to the US again. ss
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 4, 2013 - 09:58am PT
I'm with Sal. You don't want a criminal record. You want to plead not guilty tomorrow and hopefully they will assign you a public defender, and hopefully can get the case transferred out of that kangaroo court into a real one. If you're on your own with no lawyer then look up the laws online and try to find the rule that lets you get the case removed to federal court, and the standards the judge will use to decide that. As I mentioned I'm not licensed in CA and don't know about this anyway, but for removal from state to federal court, for example, there are standards you have to meet and explain to the judge how you meet the standards. The public defender should know this. I wouldn't say you're a mmj patient or get into the facts of the case at all if you don't have to. Just plead not guilty and try to get into a real court. As to whether the citation will go on your record, how you would get it expunged, and what that really means, and how it may affect your ability to find work in the future, you should seek real legal advice. For me personally, lying on job applications and hoping my employer will never find out, because the records were supposedly expunged, would not be an option.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Feb 4, 2013 - 10:08am PT
I'm with Sal and Don Paul on this one. Plead not guilty, find a public defender and fight it. I personally know people in both Ireland and the UK who have not been allowed in the US, because of a pot bust. And I have met several Americans over the years, back home, who have been 'refused to leave to permit to entry' in several countries.

And yes the employment issues and home loans issues could raise an ugly head if you plead guilty.

I suppose you could take your chances and throw yourself at the mercy of the judge, but WHAT IF? And that is a huge WHAT IF. Do you want to take that risk?

Again, I am not a lawyer. Find one. Jcory86, you go to court tomorrow don't you? If so, find one fast or get legal aid. Don't plead guilty, at least that is what I would do. But I do not know what the ramifications of a Not Guilty plea would be.

I have no legal experience or expertise.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
Never mess with people who have the power to make your life miserable. That includes DMV employees, waiters and baggage handlers. And judges. Especially them.

A Miami woman facing drug charges made her situation much worse when she laughed at and then flipped off the man with the gavel. File this case under: Ill advised.

According to NBC Miami, 18-year-old Penelope Soto was in court for charges relating to possession of Xanax, a prescription drug. Judge Jorge Rodriguez-Chomat was in the process of setting her bond. He asked Soto about the value of her jewelry. Soto laughed. That was strike one.

"It's not a joke, you know, we're not in a club now," Rodriguez-Chomat said. "We are not in a club. Be serious about it."

Soto replied: "I'm serious about it, you just made me laugh. You just made me laugh, I apologize. It's worth a lot of money."

The judge said, "Like what?" Soto compared the jewelry to a wealthy rapper. She replied that the jewelry is "like Rick Ross. It's worth money."

The perplexed judge asked if Soto had taken drugs within the past 24 hours, to which she answer, "Actually, no." The judge then set Soto's bond at $5,000 and said, "Bye-bye." Soto chuckled and said, "Adios." Strike two. The judge summoned her back and raised the bond to $10,000, eliciting gasps from those in the courtroom.

Soto asked if the judge was serious. Judges are not known for their humor, and Rodriguez-Chomat is no exception. "I am serious," he said. "Adios."

But Soto wasn't done. Instead of leaving the courtroom she flipped Rodriguez-Chomat the bird and said "F*** you." And that was strike three. Soto was again called back and then sentenced to thirty days in the big house for contempt of court.

mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
Bunch of fear mongers here,

Getting off with a fine, and the ca note will be worth showing.

Bet.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
Haven't heard from Jcory yet.
I wonder if they locked him up and threw away the key?

:)
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Feb 7, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
Bump...where's our boy? No tr of Skull Queen or his arraignment...
Rolfr

Social climber
North Vancouver BC
Feb 7, 2013 - 11:20pm PT
Ken M

I don't understand your point, no relevance to this topic. Just because that biatch has attitude and money doesn't give her the right to be arrogant.
Watch the vid, http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/342922 if I was the judge, I would't have let her out after 30 days unless she apologized to the court.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 7, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
Hope he's busy climbing.

You know what is really stupid.

That this is any issue whatsoever

The fear that encompasses this issue is a fully artificial construct demanded by insane lawmaking.

So easy to fix..a few lines of script printed on a little piece of paper signed by one person.

The process to get there will take a few more years sadly.. saddest of all is that it's inevitability does not reduce the span of time.. the span of unnecessary fear of governments power to destroy your life.
Bargainhunter

climber
Feb 8, 2013 - 04:58am PT
Could someone refresh my memory as why governments have laws against psychoactive substances? I can understand laws against being intoxicated in situations that could lead to the harm of others (e.g. drunk driving), but if you are lying in your backyard high on (fill in the blank substance), who cares?

Most countries have prohibitions on these things. But why? This is a serious question. It really seems like a waste of law enforcement and I fail to see the societal benefit of these laws.

Indonesia has capital punishment laws for minor possession. Japan’s laws make the USA seem tolerant.

Please explain why many cultures are afraid of people being drunk, high, disinhibited, stimulated, sedated, transiently psychotic, euphoric, etc. by their own choice.
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Feb 8, 2013 - 07:25am PT
bargainhunter-

If everyone stayed in their own backyard getting high on relatively innocuous drugs, probably the government wouldn't care. However, not all drugs are equal and society often ends up paying the price for those that aren't. Marijuana and heroin aren't the same in their results, let alone cocaine or crack or meth. If the addict only screwed themselves up, in America at least, probably nobody would care, but all of society pays for the crime and the hospital, rehabilitation and prison bills caused by the more malevolent drugs.

The problem in America is that we apply the same one size fits all to every drug besides alcohol and tobacco when clearly hippy lettuce isn't in the same category as the others. The establishment of course feels that if they ok the herb, then the next step will be people clamoring for heroin or crack to be legalized - the old domino theory of drugs.
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Feb 8, 2013 - 08:18am PT
Jan, may I add another reason why our country refuses to change the drug laws that needlessly as well as counter-productively places drug users behind bars and that is the prison industrial complex in this country.

Not only are corporations realizing large profits from catering to the needs of government run prisons: but also prisons run by private industry.

These businesses have powerful lobbyist and support groups which work hard to ensure that prisons be kept full, increase in number and that the "guests" have extended stays.

I'm afraid the senseless, counterproductive as well as costly practice of sentencing illicit drug users time behind bars will not end because of logic and economic sense.
jcory86

Big Wall climber
Grass Valley, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
Tacostanders!

The valley trip was a success! Sent Skull queen hammerless in 19 hours Car to Car 12 hours on route. It has come kick ass C2+ pitches and the .10b/c pitch on top is fantastic. I ditched my approach shoes and half the gear and freed it at sunset. Probably the best pitch Ive climbed in the valley so far.

As far as the dope....

I didnt even make it into the courthouse. I talked to the federal public defender, thanks PTPP for the contact info, and showed him my script. He walked into the prosecutors office and they talked for maybe 2 minutes. They both walked out and gave me a "stern-talking-to" ie: "dont bring pot in the park, ok?" Shook my hand and said I was free to go. No fine and nothing on my record. I walked back towards the store on cloud 9.

Im writing up the TR right now and will post it up ASAP
This post sure got everyone talking...

I appreciate all the positive thoughts ladies and gents.

Next up is zodiac in a push in april!!!

jcory
TMJesse

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Feb 8, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
Great news!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Feb 8, 2013 - 08:25pm PT
Yeah, Great News!
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Feb 8, 2013 - 08:26pm PT
Way to go. Kudos to PTPP!
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Feb 8, 2013 - 08:30pm PT
BEST FRIKKEN NEWS ALL DAY!

YAY!

Oh. . . and. . . congrats on the climb, too!

:-)
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Feb 8, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
Doing a wall right before a court appearance, yeah, that's smart.

You were lucky dude.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 8, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Love that follow-up, "f*ck you" to the community.

There was never an arrest.

The 13 y/o "climber" got the chance to try out his first troll on this group.

Har, har.

There was never a climb, either.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 8, 2013 - 10:59pm PT
Congradulations! Another life saved.
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Feb 9, 2013 - 12:12am PT
nice TR. way casual
Vegasclimber

Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
Feb 9, 2013 - 05:31am PT
Hey bro,

Stoked to hear about the climb, and WAY stoked that they dropped it. Have been wondering what happened all week. See, good karma for your actions in September came back to help you maybe?

At any rate, look forward to the TR. Be cool mang!
Meagher

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Feb 9, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
HA! We aint doing that sh#t in a push. Since you aren't replying to my texts, hows the chin?
Meagher

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Feb 9, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Glad you got off though buddy!
rickroll

Boulder climber
T.H.C
Feb 13, 2013 - 10:01am PT
Yeah, GREAT news you got off..... especially cause;

I take my BONG to the valley every time I GO!!!

can't say they don't mess with me, i've never seen rangers while i was smoking. But i've never had trouble. maybe DON'T be so casual with it
melski

Trad climber
bytheriver
Feb 13, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
holy bats catman,,times are-A changing,,,to slowwwwwly of course,,,so slowly here i am in washington state,and havent had a hit after new years,,,point is pioneers have hurdles,,and mucho grachius to sup.to.furthering the slooooowwwwwwnneesss,,,,,
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