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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 25, 2013 - 11:51pm PT
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Modern ice climbing is a perfect refllection of global warming....we humans are very adaptable. You see, the real athleticisim vis a vis ice tools requires that they not be used on ice.
I just watched a video at the OR show that i would call climbing porn. Good production values and insanely athletic movement but 0 character development and marginal relationship to real climbing. Dry tooling on overhanging rock with fully leafed trees in the background, the nearest ice at the local pub and bolts scarcely a meter apart.
I also witnessed the comp at the Ouray Ice Fest where the hardest moves were transitioning from a hanging, rotating log to an overhanging artificial wall where you could grab hanging straight ice ax shafts BUT only on the part painted red- kinda like a climbing gym BUT even more artificial.
The "M" grade was designed to give difficulty ratings to highly technical mixed (hence the M) climbing. Mixed presumably (at least in the beginning) referring to a "mix" of ice and rock.
A funny thing happened....the higher (read more difficult) the M rating became the less ice appeared on the climb until by the time M ratings approached double digits the ice had disappeared entirely.
Ice climbing has always been that segment of climbing where the difference between following and leading has been the most intimidating. Not to worry, the hardest dry tooling routes have reversed the tables by having bolts placed closer together than the tightest sport routes you have ever climbed.
Voila....if you love athletic movement without adventure, modern dry tooling is for you and you don't have to invest in expensive cold weather clothing. You'll get the hardest send by waiting until Summer and climbing in shorts without fear of the screaming barfies!
By the way, i never said that i was quitting ST but i have made a personal vow to never post on anything but a climbing thread. Okay, i am hoplessly Old School.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jan 25, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
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Where did our ethics go?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 25, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
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Two things
1) I've invested in cold weather clothes
2) I suggest you use the term 'global climate change' as global warming only feeds the denial fire.
TFPU
Edit: do SushiFest threads count as climbing threads?
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jan 25, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
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I think it is "screaming barfies" . . . ? Pretty sure it was "creaming" before the edit!
Really, is it when your hands warm up after a non-frostbite induced freeze?
Dry tooling seems so contrived . . . like some artificial steel structure erected in nature for people to cling to.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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Jan 25, 2013 - 11:59pm PT
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I'll take that same challenge- never post on anything but a climbing thread- i like it
Anything that involves tooling probably sucks
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dogtown
Trad climber
Cheyenne, Wyoming and Marshall Islands atoll.
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:00am PT
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Where did our ethics go?
I don’t know where, but I know when.
The day Rape bolting became O.K.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:02am PT
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Jim, did you copy this to Rheinhold? I'm sure he'd love to read it.
That whole Ouray scene is so Disney.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:02am PT
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Warm & cold cycles make ice. I prefer snow, but I fear adaptations are imminent, like it or knot.
Meh.
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john hansen
climber
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:02am PT
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I always thought of the M ratings as snow , ice, and rock. And there was that climb in the Black. Do they realy use styrofoam???
A good topic.
Just wait till the 'Gecko Skin' comes out...
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Michelle
Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:08am PT
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Mixed climbing is neither..?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2013 - 12:09am PT
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Sushi Fests are only held at climbing areas....now, should you do one at a Tea Party convention.....
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:11am PT
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It'd never work....They'd take your sushi home, fry it up & tell YOU how much it tasted like fish.
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:15am PT
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Jim, did you copy this to Rheinhold? I'm sure he'd love to read it.
That whole Ouray scene is so Disney.
Bingo!
Just another roadside attraction.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:20am PT
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I think that most ice climbers got bored with pure icee, therefore, they decided to climb rock(forget the ice) with ice tools. It's aid limping.
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:21am PT
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TeaBaggerSushiFest. Oh the horror!!!!!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:24am PT
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That's nICE and all..but the real question is will all this help on Latok or not?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:28am PT
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Calm down Jim. There's M climbing, yeah, but then there's also M climbing.
The former, yeah, you saw it at the Ouray comp. But the latter, well, that's something different. I'm not the guy to talk to about it, but get in touch with Will Gadd (posts here occasionally as gilwadd or something similar). Might open your eyes.
Of course, the best comment on the whole M-grade things was made a while back when Barry Blanchard, Steve House, and Scott Backes climbed a new route on Howse Peak in winter. At that time, the M-grade thing was just getting rolling, with M8 pretty much the hardest thing going. They named their route M16 "because it's twice as hard as M8."
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2013 - 12:37am PT
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Ghost, i'm pretty well versed on the state of mixed climbing and know that some very, very necky mixed routes are being put up by the people you have cited and many others.
The fact remains that a lot of the hardest dry tooling climbs , including climbs in the Canmore/Banff areas are bolted more tightly than a Boeing 747 fuselage.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:38am PT
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The fact remains that a lot of the hardest dry tooling climbs , including climbs in the Canmore/Banff areas are bolted more tightly than a Boeing 747 fuselage.
No argument about that. Just wanted to say that not all M climbers are Eldo Prancers.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jan 26, 2013 - 12:40am PT
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But(gasp) They could DIE!!!
Boldness is scary. Or necesscary. Hmm. ;-)
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nah000
Mountain climber
canuckistan
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Jan 26, 2013 - 02:11am PT
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you know who is the perfect exemplar of this new age of depravity?
josh wharton. that guy won the ouray ice fest three years in a row but he never does anything that has any real level of boldness or adventure... i think there's this other guy with the same name who did a bunch of crazy bold routes in the karakorum... but like alex lowe and jeff lowe, i'm sure it's just a similar name. there is no way there is any relation between the bolt clipping m-climbing comp winning josh wharton and the pakistani trad route multiday sufferfest climbing josh wharton. it's just not possible.
or vince anderson, route setter for the 2012 ouray comp. another modern prancer. i know for a fact that that guy was basically dragged up the rupal face by steve house. he had to have been. because while steve house may clip bolts at smith, i'm sure it is just for rehab after the psychological and physical decimation of one of his REAL climbing routes. i know the almighty steve house wouldn't intentionally climb this overbolted risk free sh#t regardless of whether it was summer or winter.
but you know who is really to blame for this depravity?
john gill. that's right if there is anybody that normalized and accelerated the acceptance of "adventureless" and "risk-free" climbing it's him. sure he claims to have done a bunch of solos when no one was looking, and he climbed the occasional high ball thimble type climb to keep up his cred, but for the most part he just piddled around on little rocks. most of the time he didn't even get high enough to need bolts. and sure his fame comes from climbing done in the summer. but after he took that first step, it was just an inevitable straight line to overbolted, risk-free m-climbing.
if john gill was a drug he'd be marijuana. he was the gateway climber to this soulless modern world of adventureless and risk-free climbing that we are all now forced to face.
i for one hope he is publicly ostracized for the ethical damage and downfall he wrought on our wonderful religion, er i mean, sport of men.
long live the summit!!! long live the nut and the hex!!! death to all who prostrate themselves at the altars of closely spaced bolts, and ice free m-climbing!!! can i get an amen brothers!!!
enjoy your trollicious evenings gentlemen.
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norm larson
climber
wilson, wyoming
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Jan 26, 2013 - 07:50am PT
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Well, climbing takes many forms these days and not all are recognizable as climbing to us old guys. Still the young bucks love it and it sparks them so what the hell. A few years ago I went to an ice crag with a couple of younger climbers and they were dry tool bouldering on some overhanging problem and tumbling off into the snow. I took off my gloves and climbed it with my hands and it was about 5.5. They looked at it totally different than I and we both thought the other missed the point. But I do agree that mixed means mixed ice and rock and snow. And the best place for that is high on some peak. But thats just me. At least when they are out there doing what they do they are away from the computer for a minute ot two.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jan 26, 2013 - 10:23am PT
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^ +1
Also they might just live a bit longer and have a blast doing it. Something to be said for that.
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Borut
Mountain climber
Ljubljana, Slovenia
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Jan 26, 2013 - 10:38am PT
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I go to the drytool crag for training. Puts muscle in and you learn good tricks. It's my first season in tooling and D7- is the max i led (D is like M, but definitely without ice).
Borut
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jan 26, 2013 - 11:18am PT
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Hey Jim I just started a Happy Birthday thread for Jimmy Newberry the patron saint of the Black Canyon.
I hope you post to it. Because anyone who doesn't think that is a climbing related thread should hang up their harness.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 26, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
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Tick...tick....tick, wonder that myself. No shortage of talent or motivation, every year i think that so and so are going to nail it FOR SURE! Almost seems to be a brooding mountain god having fun with folks.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jan 26, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
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A friend of mine put up Pipe Dreams 180m WI6X M6ish R @ lake willoughby a few years ago and he was bitching and moaning that all the M prancers were hitting up some over bolted (his opinion) french line on the same wall but not repeating his trad line. when he gets ranting he goes off about knowing doubble digit M climbers who can not lead the bigger WI5+ routs @ the lake simply because of no sac;)
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bigwall shitter
Social climber
the wild west
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Jan 26, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
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hard M climbs with no ice and bolts every 3 feet (no, I'm not exaggerating, they are actually that close together) are way homo, but are also way fun. I went out with my buddy and jumped on a M11 20 foot horizontal roof thing that was one of the coolest things ever. Where else do you get to swing around and throw yer feet over your head, all without being sketched at all because the pro is big fat bolts. However, this can sometimes happen:
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jan 26, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
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Doninu FROZE my adze off watching that comp in Ouray IN cold weather gear. It was brutal, but yeah was kinda funny watching the only ice on the route was the approach and a one or two move section prior to the hanging log. Bridwell commented he NEVER climbed a rotating log on a climb before....so OLD SCHOOL!
Peace
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Jan 26, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
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if john gill was a drug he'd be marijuana. he was the gateway climber to this soulless modern world of adventureless and risk-free climbing that we are all now forced to face
Oh Oh! I feel so bad . . .
;>)
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OldEric
Trad climber
Westboro, MA
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Jan 26, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
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I guess that sabbatical was short lived. Pity.
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nah000
Mountain climber
canuckistan
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Jan 27, 2013 - 02:04am PT
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jogill says:
Oh Oh! I feel so bad
and you should feel bad, john. you most definitely should.
while i'm not a high priest, i've spent enough time in their presence, that i believe the path to your redemption can be found by praying to st. preuss upon rising, st. messner at noon, and st. blanchard as you lay down for rest.
and remember john, your admitting this is only the first step. it is your soul that is at risk. you have spent a lifetime exploring the darkest potentials of man. and what's more, you spread this message of darkness throughout the world. so pray my brother, pray. your everlasting soul depends on it.
i'd like to take this time to speak to the rest of my brothers and sisters.
if this wretched leader of sinners can turn away from his path of darkness, then we too, can face our own depravity.
it is time to turn away from the man filled caves that we have occupied for too long. turn away from the grunting and the sweat filled lust for just one more move. the pumped clenching for just. one. more. soul. destroying. bolt.
please brothers and sisters, i beseech you, turn away from the darkness.
we have been misled. by the john gills, the will gadds and the aleister crowleys of this world.
please brothers and sisters.
though the end draws nigh, there is still time.
come back into the alpenglow.
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