Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 25, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
So our van sucks and we put off changing the oil till we get to 29 palms and it seems that was a mistake, anyone in or near jtree that could bring us 2-3 quarts of 10w30 oil would be a life saver! & we could totally reimburse you for the oil, your gas & time! If you can help we are on hwy 62 coming from LA to the park in a blue GMC van 360.269.6022!
I'll be passing by that way in the morning around 10:30. Hopefully someone can help you out sooner though. A lot of climbers will be driving through there tonight.
C'mon folks, someone go grab some oil and make the drop.
I wish I could help, but I don't think I have enough gas to get there. I am stuck waiting for my own cash influx after having once again budgeted poorly.
Not that you want to hitchhike on 62, but you will probably get a ride. Put the hood up and wait for a bit, standing outside the van looking pathetic. Hopefully a state trooper will drive by and seem like an angel of the morning. Or a person who looks pretty normal, at least.
But have to worry, if you found you couldn't make it to town, that the van is.... I don't even want to write the words.
Edit: Just called the couple and it SEEMS that they are on the Yucca Valley side, not 29 Palms. They said they were going "up the hill" and in Morongo Valley. Also that the van isn't turning over.
I suggested they might call around and see if they can get a two into the WM lot and tell the two company they only have x amount of money for the tow. Don't know if that is stupid idea or not.
Call AAA and get an annual membership. They will have oil to you in no time for less money than you would otherwise spend. I have a feeling Supertopo road service is still working out some kinks.........
As I posted in edit above(while others were asking questions):
Just called the couple and it SEEMS that they are on the Yucca Valley side, not 29 Palms. They said they were going "up the hill" and in Morongo Valley. Also that the van isn't turning over.
Just turn around and coast down the hill back into Morongo Valley. There's a Hardware store in the same compound as the Cactus Mart nursery, as well as 3 (at least) gas stations.
KP Ariza - IF you KNOW help is on the way and have not called those people please do! I just spoke with them and they seem unaware of aid coming....
If you are joking - this isn't the time. Or at least say you were just kidding...
Someone just PayPaled me a sum to use to help the couple out and I called to let them know. It isn't going to pay for an auto mechanics bill, but it will help them out a bit.
It seems they are going to get a tow to the Yucca Walmart lot, as I told them they would be able to stay there overnight. They think the issue may be water pump or wiring(if I recall correctly).
They will call me when they get to the WM. Anyone out there who might want to take a look at the van?
Not a troll, god just put me on this earth to suffer. But yeah putting every last dime towards a tow to WalMart in yucca. Stopped on the shoulder cause the van started to overheat, waited an hour to try starting it again and now it seems like the fuel pump stopped working... But at least supertopo ( or super taco! As my fiance thought it was) has been sympathetic! F*#king raining too wtf?
I am going to go over when they get to the WMart lot.
Maybe we can do a diagnosis over the web at that time.
I didn't ask any questions about the technical aspects, because I felt they were pretty stressed out, and also wouldn't be able to really analyze on my own.
KP - Having spoken to the woman, I don't think they have seen that Supertopo is full of a bunch of saps who fall for cries of help and got an idea. But I guess I would rather be a sap than guilty of posting sarcasm in response to someone in need.
The motor isn't seized, it is low on oil, but the wiring in this van isn't the best but I believe that its not getting fuel cause it turns over and gets spark just no start.lol Guy you are too nice once again!
Happy, read my original post. Perfectly reasonable advice for someone in there predicament. Quite frankly though, it seems ridiculous to me that somebody who apparently spends a lot of time road tripping wouldn't have thought of that in the first place. Better yet, why not enroll with AAA before hitting the road at all. They could give better advice and service than you will be able to.
These folks are grown adults, they should be able to navigate a bit of car trouble w/out posting a f*#king "Rambler" alert on line.
So yes, the whole thing seemed a little suspicious to me. BTW, since you've resorted to name calling, you're the sap. Go put on your nuns garb and reel 'em in sister.
Oh yes AAA is the best buy in the world, next to REIs return policy. I get the doubble gold membership..... Towed the Kids blown up car home....from Baker CA.
If I had to pay for that tow it would have cost about a $1,000 ....
Any-way.... a bit of bad luck can be over come with the help of the ST TRIBE.
And Werner..... To make the fuel pump you describe work even better. Use the fuel container from a coleman white gas stove. The pump gives you fuel pressure.... that way your passenger can keep it pumped up while you drive.
In my old Land Rover field repair manual it suggests using the windshield wiper fluid pump as a make shift fuel pump. Several years ago my fuel pump took a dive in the Saline Valley and I was able to get into Bishop using this trick. Just hit the wiper fluid switch every 30 seconds or so and it worked like a charm.
Go get a can of "starter spray" ..... crank engine - spray a bit and see if it fires up on the spray. If it does, fuel pump is most likley the root cause.
I think you have a mechanical fuel pump in that van. Pretty cheap and easy to fix.
yeah so we got a tow to the yucca valley WalMart,thanks for the calls and replies our van isn't the greatest it cost $600 and for all the possibilities that could go wrong it making it 1400 miles and this being the first break down, I am happy. There will be a big TR but really this is not a trip, this is a life change after to many years or working and doing everything your supposed to( school, work, etc) I was tired of being perpetually unhappy and made a short notice decision to move into a van and do what I want to be happy, climb! While a bit short sighted and whimsical it made a lot of sense to me. I've had severe depression and borderline personality disorder since I was 12( 12 years) that a long with an alternative view of society and ours particularly here in the US led me to be certain I would be happier homeless and living more simply. Having the wonderful partner I do she agreed to brave the huge step outside her comfort zone & come along, that being the gas I had to spend a substantially larger amount of my budget on creature comforts ie; more insulating, a bed in the van, solar power for her laptop & camera charger etc. Leaving us with a lot less for mishaps and problems, after being shorted $500 on my last check that has pretty much left us broke but not without avenues for future food&gas. Those that have helped thus far have done substantial justice to reaffirming my faith in human decency, anyone with negative comments can kiss my ass. In summation we are just trying to be happy, and I am just doing my best with what i have.
Haha well then you'll love my 37th post... Cause I didn't include that one of the gentleman that helped us while in Calabasas gave us some alcohol( yay free alcohol) which included a 1981 bottle of crown that contributed to me tripping and breaking my nose on our rear window! Ill include a picture of all the blood once we have laptop battery.
Also bought starting fluid fired up so it is either dead fuel pump or the wiring!
I'm in joshua tree and I will be around most all weekend.....call me up and tell me what you need;...I'll help you out any way I can....(760) 366-9395......I live here in town....but was at work all day or I would have responded earlier.......
Dude rough! If it fired up than it ain't the wiring because if it was you wouldn't get spark. Sounds like you found your fuel issue. Probably the pump. maybe a clog?
Well, I did find them out at the Walmart, and yeah, the starter fluid fired it up. The guy (I forget his name already!) thinks wiring but....
I told them about my fuel pump story and how the pirate mechanic diagnosed it after spraying starter fluid(fired right up). He yarded on the gas tank with a 2 x 4, and then said "Crank on it" and it started again...He said "It's your fuel pump." hahah
But he didn't seem ready to run that diagnostic. Anyway - they are safe at WM, we had a beer(well, I had no alcohol, but thought they could use one) and some food, and tomorrow he is going to see what he can see, about why it won't go. Sounds like he is mechanically inclined, which puts him many steps ahead of me. But his van seems to be acting just as mine did when the fuel pump went.
Oh! One thing they mentioned. They heard the humming sound of fuel pump the other night - but when the van was OFF, no key in ignition and had been sitting. I guess that is why he thinks wiring, but could the fuel pump have "kept going" or something after it was supposed to shut down (hence the hum), and worn out?
So when I've said the wiring, I mean the wiring to the fuel pump, the van has an electric pump cause its a throttle body injected motor. Not quite sure how to easily test the wiring so probably going to drop the tank, remove the pump and test it if that's the problem we are hoping an individual from Sacramento doesnt flake on buying some stuff so we can replace the pump, otherwise its a cardboard sign again until we get our tax returns. Thanks for everyone's advice and assistance.
Gotta love Craigslist flakes, anyone interested in buying a brand new 145 watt solar panel? Or some brand new ascenders or brand new climbing shoes so hopefully we can fix this beast?
I've had luck just buying a generic fuel pump, cutting the fuel line somewhere in the middle and hard wiring the pump to the battery and a switch on the dash. Can't say I really recommend it but it's gotten a couple junkers down the road a few months when I needed to.
THIS MAY BE A GOOD DESRIPTION OF LOCATION.. mebbe not
Fuel pump relay is located under the hood on passenger side bolted to the firewall a few inches below the windshield. It is black and has wires going into it.
VB....As we discussed last night, a person has donated money to assist you to a point. I am pretty sure a fuel pump for your van is under $50, which will easily be covered by that donation.
I am in Yucca this morning and was intending to see how things are coming along. I'll stop over to the van in a bit. If you aren't there, I'll give a call.
fantastic, so I dont know a lot about auto electrical systems, disconnected the fuel pump relay and... When you shake it you can hear the ocean! Or rather the fucing thing is full of water. Now the question, could that have shorted out my fuel pump or would I just need to replace the relay and check the fuse?
Well luck would have it we had a relay in the van, so its replaced but still no start.wondering if the water filled rest could have shorted out fuel pump or anything else
Do you hear anything from the pump? If the pumps sounds like it's working it may just take some time to prime and clear the air out of the line. If after several minutes it still does not work.. check your fuel filter(s).
If the pump makes no noise stop trying wait 30 minutes and try again. If it still makes no noise then you probably have a bad fuel pump.
The ECM fuse may have blown. Check that if you can find it or all the fuses. When the fuel pump was running with engine off, that may have been the water soaking situation causing weirdness.
Anyone have a tow strap and 3/4- 1 ton rig willing to tow us 7 miles up the road to the pit? If so we are next to jack in the box and phone battery is now gonna die.
I'll have to admit that my my initial reaction and views about your situation were short sighted at best. Pretty neat to see the way people have come together for you.
Good Luck.
I'm glad people are helping you. I've been in almost exactly your same position in exactly the same place. If you get a tow to the pit, please, please do not leave your van there forever if you can't get it fixed. The pit does not need another dead vehicle.
Definitely not gonna leave it anywhere. But could still use someone willing to tow us the 6 miles there's. No hwy so it's be an easy job if you can help we are still parked next to jbo in the WalMart parking lot.
We won't be back down there for several more days. If I was there now I'd tow you without hesitation.
Been in the same boat and it's no fun. I had to drop the tank and swap my fuel pump while parked in the pit. Fun fact: some dude got his truck stuck there while I was working on the van. Pulled him out as soon as I finished the job. At least it worked...
We went and picked up the fuel pump this morning, assuming that was the culprit.
After dropping the tank, he determined that the fuel pump was not the issue, and also that the fuel filter was not clogged.
I don't know what all he has been doing with various wiring things, but seems he has checked fuses and cleaned wires/replaced as needed when found corrosion and such.
He went to turn the engine and it DID almost start. It turned over and made a couple of those grumbly, grumpy engine sounds, but then cut out quickly and cleanly.
Next try at turning produced no combustion-like sounds. Cranking but (to my ear which may be wrong) no combustion. He now feels the issue must be right near the injection points and is researching for ideas but....
Anyone able to tell me why the tbi injectors will do nothing? As terry said the pump works, lines are clear, but the injectors will not provide fuel, engine has spark as starting fluid will make it fire but I am at a loss. Little mechanical knowledge and lack of say a multi meter have me at a loss and very demoralized.
The computer is probably not sending a signal to the injectors or your fuel pressure is low.
There are a number of things that can cause both.
You'll go broke guessing.
On the older GMs you can ground a pin in the computer connector and the trouble light will flash out a code if you don't have access to an OBD reader.
Look up the code in the manual and it will point you in the right direction.
It will not tell you definitively what's wrong though!
Scientific method applies here.
Theorem
Proof, step by step.
no guessing.
Example:
OBD code says no throttle position signal.
That doesn't mean you run to the parts store for a new one until you've proved that all the connections are good and it really is bad as indicated by direct measurements.
And that probably would be stern advice if half the wiring in this $600 van looked correct, my issue is the van ran fine, started to overheat we pulled over let it sit for an hour and then... No fuel. Had it towed, verified pump is fine lines are clear, grounds all appear to be solid besides a little old. I guess im just to unqualified, lacking in tools, and broke to reach a solution.
Serious question if i am going to check each injector for power should i be using the second wire( blue on one, green on the other) as the meter ground?
Happygrrllll is one hell of a great person. Happie I am going to donate to YOU on PayPal as soon as I get paid on Saturday. Seriously. I don't need a chalkbag but you have gone above and beyond. I have to admit, like others, I thought these people were super-trolls, esp after the Peru debacle we recently ran through here. But they are just young folks in need of help. I intend to help as soon as I can. But I think I will refill Happie's coffers since she is onsite and seems to be a godsend to these youngsters. Way to go Happie! This website is an enormous bundle of contradictory types and personalities and stories. This is a good one! I hope Vertical enjoys his time in Josh once he gets there.
VB... hang in there. This is sort of like your 1 pitch from top of wall and now your rope is stuck!!!
Clear thinking is needed to solve the riddle.
The thing cranked and "started" on the "Spray" right?
GOOD, that means you didn't fry the motor.
You dropped the tank and the "pump runs" .... so the pump works.. ie "it pumps the fuel" all the way to the INJECTOR MAIN UNIT ... Crack the line at the place where the fuel enters this.... lots of fuel when you turn on the KEY.
If no ... your fuel is not getting to the injectors.
If yes.... do you have water in your fuel??? (a tiny bit will mess up the works) Drain some of the the fuel into a glass jar and let it sit... the water will seperate.
Back to the RELAY, the one that was full of water and the replacement one you found in the van. Do not ASUME the replacement is/was good. Maybe put the one that was full of water back on, after it dries out.
Get out the starter spray... if you can get it to turn over again and fire on the SPRAY, do it. Then remove a plug and look at the electrode end.
If its wet and smells like fuel, you have water in your fuel and you can't run intill you get dry fuel into it. ( toss a few mothballs into tank ) if you got em.
You need to make sure nothing is wet or corroded in the electrical system, moisture in the fuse box, computer brain, throttle body switch or any of the wireing can be death to the little, weak 5 volt signals your injector system is looking for.
Lastly take a walk and give that van some time to dry out, sometimes water and moisture can kill you esp with old crappy cars.
Keep your chin up and let us know how this works out...
Here is a (slightly edited version) of a response to Guyman who emailed me a short while ago:
They made it to the Pit with the van yesterday morning via tow from a person found on Craigslist..
But, it is still not running. I went to the WM when they arrived there, but as it was nearing dusk, not much work was done that night. A little finagling with no results and I said "You probably could use a beer" and took them for dinner at Las Palmas in Yucca.
Saturday was spent with Andrew trying this and that, hoping he would not have to drop tank and replace fuel pump, but by that night felt that must be the problem.
Sunday bought a fuel pump, but when he tested the on in van, it was not bad. Returned fuel pump, and tested Ignition Relay(or something or other) which was also not not bad. The guy at shop said he'd had similar issue which turned out to be his coil, $20 part,and suggested to test it. But that, if bad, you had to remove distributor to get to replace it, and tension springs in that piece would render it useless once removed.... That part cost $125.
Yesterday they took a day and went climbing with others here at the Pit, and today Andrew did the same while Cheney did errands in town and charged batteries for phone so Andrew could again use it to search fix it info....
That is where it stands as of now.
A Supertopian Lady has donated some money to assist, and I told him with that and what I could donate, he would have up to $200 toward doing so. So, I guess he needs to figure out what the real issue is... and then we go from there.
***
I couldn't have done anything had someone been the REAL person who helped, with cash. I didn't even have enough money that day to drive over and commiserate with them in person without that. So, I have given them some drive around help and emotional support but you know - my life is pretty unstructured, and I could do my online work(and get into disgusting trouble on this forum) while waiting in between fix attempts.
One thing - was talking to Clark today about the van symptoms, and mentioned that it "almost started" with Starter Fluid sprayed into the carbeurator area, but he said that if the van has fuel injection, then starter fluid would be useless.
I am pretty sure Andrew did say it is fuel injection. But maybe I misunderstood.
One other thing I just recalled - Andrew said he felt it must be a bad grounded wire somewhere, and that there are like 30 to choose from and that was his next area of focus.
But, their phone is charged now, so maybe he will post an update.
Best of luck to the OP, but I have to agree that launching off on a long road trip in a 600 dollar van and little money or car know-how is not smart. Kinda funny that the guy has a smart phone that is probably worth more than the van! Somebody needs to help this poor guy, he is lucky the auto parts store took the electrical parts back.
Luckily, he didn't open up the fuel pump packaging, so in as new shape. He tested the old one and saw it was not the issue.
Seems Andrew does have some know-how with vehicles, just not able to get this one figured out as of yet. He has been methodically going through the various components and troubleshooting.
I am hoping it is eventually some stupid not too expensive part. Will mention the thread update to him tomorrow, if I see them before I leave(Teddy has doctors appointment early).
Just an observation, but to start an engine you need spark, fuel and compression. If the engine truly started (as mentioned) using the starter fluid--you already have spark and compression, so that would seem to leave a fuel supply issue. Therefore, you can probably rule out the coil/ignition related issues and focus on why the engine is not getting gas. Good luck guys.
To be very clear - these two did not ask me to spend one cent of that money outright, and seemed to have forgotten it existed until I reminded them. They then continued to troubleshoot. It was only when they came to the point where dropping tank/replace fuel filter seemed the next thing to try did they meekly ask if I still had the money to help.
Agree or disagree with the decision process, but for god's sake - why do people think every damned thread from someone who isn't a known entity is a troll or scam?
A couple answers i found on the web with issues similar to yours.
--
hi, check the connections at the ecm,i think it's under pass front seat,i've had a couple of those years loose injector signal at ecm connector,if you have a test light you can unplug injectors and test across terminals ,it's a 12v signal at inj ,if lights flash on both while cranking try plugging in one at a time and see if either sprays, if one does and not the other, you would have a shorted injector
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you will need to check the fuel pressure first. the vortec engines need 55 psi of fuel pressure to start and run efficiently. if fuel pressure is good then check for power and injector pulse before condemning the ecm (you will need a wiring diagram.)
This is one of the most entertaining threads of all time, it has it all: internet panhandling, unabashed dirtbaggery, and broken-down vehicles. All set in tweaker country. Classic!!
Agree or disagree with the decision process, but for god's sake - why do people think every damned thread from someone who isn't a known entity is a troll or scam?
"To be very clear - these two did not ask me to spend one cent of that money outright, and seemed to have forgotten it existed until I reminded them. They then continued to troubleshoot. It was only when they came to the point where dropping tank/replace fuel filter seemed the next thing to try did they meekly ask if I still had the money to help."
So why would they have to ASK for the money that were donated to them?
HF - What happened was: A person PayPaled me some funds, to use to get gas to go see what I could do for these people. At the time, it seemed like it was the fuel pump, and also that they were paying out an amount for towing which would put a nice dent in money they had earmarked.
I let Andrew and Cheney know that I had this amount made available - and it was in my PayPal account which I have a credit card attached to. I have long since forgotten the debit card PIN for that card, and never bothered to go to PayPal and figure it out, sine I can simply use the card in "credit" mode. To get the funds as cash, I would need to either get on the phone with PayPal and do that, or transfer funds to my bank account, which can take up to 3 days to do.
It seemed easier to me to just say "I can help you to a point, let me know what you need." and pay as needed via the credit card especially since I figured they could use the help in transportation in getting to car parts store and such. I assumed this would all happen that night and the next day, time during which I made myself available at their call. Of course I did work online during this time, and was not sitting there alongside them - I would call or stop over throughout the day, see what they needed, and pay for things as they came up. Andrew trouble-shooted and worked through Saturday, and decided to drop the tank on Sunday.
For what it's worth -the person who sent hat money is aware of all this, and has sent me an email telling me they have no problem with it.
I have also let Andrew know that, now that I have gotten my own cash flow going again, that there is X amount of funds available to help with car repair.
It seems you might live in JT, HF? If so -why not swing by the Pit and introduce yourself, take your own look at the van if you have any suggestions as to what they might look for.
As update -it seems they have ruled out the coil being the problem, after feeling that it was in fact the issue. They are back to looking at the various ground connections, and apparently there are like 30 of them.
When I let Andrew know about the "coil suggestion" the guy at parts store mentioned, he frustratingly said "ggggrrrrrrr..."(well,okay,m not exactly that, but you get the idea). I would assume he tested it because 1) It was there and 2) he hadn't yet found the problem
At one point in my career, I had zero money and scarfed tourist left over food at The Cafe in Yosemite, for three months. Lived off a jar of honey, a Box of Frosted Flakes and a loaf of Wonder bread for three weeks in The Meadows.
Had to actually pan handle to get home, a few times.
Didn't have the internet, to pan handle on back then.
JT, was a God send, started guiding and got a place to live, started there with a broken down Van and 20 bucks, borrowed from a friend.
Ah those were the days, no plans a good plan, good luck to these kids!
"verticalbound posted with several items for sale, including quickdraws and a mastercam. I paid for the items before leaving for CA, but when I returned, no gear has arrived and the seller is now unresponsive. The account shows "Last Visit: Jan 18, 2013", which is obviously not true as there have been many posts since then - but I'm not sure how the forum tracks visits. "
A person PayPaled me some funds, to use to get gas to go see what I could do for these people. At the time, it seemed like it was the fuel pump, and also that they were paying out an amount for towing which would put a nice dent in money they had earmarked. 
Let us know!