Congratulations Mr President.

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philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 21, 2013 - 11:00am PT
Barack Obama is inaugurated to his second presidential term today.
Let's give it up for the man who steered us away from the Neo-Con agenda and economic ruin.


Woo Hoo!

Oh, and suck it Fox news and you TeaBaglickins.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:03am PT
A big plus 1.....i still get shivers when i think of plutocrat Romney at the helm.
Get a big smile when i think about the kind of day this is for tea party morons.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:05am PT
the man who steered us away from the Neo-Con agenda and economic ruin.

I'm still laughing... Good one!

And no, I don't think the "other" candidate would have been any different.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:12am PT
Bad day for Anne Romney....she was convinced she would be a Barbi Doll First Lady in the mold of Nancy Reagan and Laura Bush.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:13am PT
A proud moment in American history.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:26am PT
Amen
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:27am PT
Ditto
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:31am PT
Yes Congrats!, and get after those guns! (the only bangs I want to see are on Michelle's pretty head)
Woody the Beaver

Trad climber
Soldier, Idaho
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:36am PT
A fine day! I'm grateful!
Gal

Trad climber
a semi lucid consciousness
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:46am PT
Very happy! Congrats Obama.

I hope you will continue to work hard to help the economy and please prevent the middle class from disappearing.

Less compromise to those teabag weirdos, please kick ass even more than your last term!!!! A great day!!!!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Pollock Pines, California
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:51am PT
elated voter, here.
Leggs

Sport climber
Home away from Home
Jan 21, 2013 - 11:53am PT
A big plus 1.....i still get shivers when i think of plutocrat Romney at the helm.
Get a big smile when i think about the kind of day this is for tea party morons.

Phew! YES!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
I wonder if Ron can rise above long enough to acknowledge our new President.

I'm always impressed by those on the other side of the aisle who can maintain graciousness even when their political adversary is in power.
dirtbag

climber
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:03pm PT
Looks like tackling climate change will be a priority.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:07pm PT
doubtful, Apogee

irrational and ignorant hatred is often lifelong
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
More equality for gay marriage, maybe?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
Yeah, that wasn't exactly a speech filled with fireworks. Still, the guy is in the midst of a lot of sh#t, and it's a time for more action than words. Four more years!
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
How about you, Donald...can you rise above long enough to congratulate your new President?
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
Putting the shoe on the other foot....To be honest, i would be hard pressed to do the same for Romney. I would, in that case, fervently hope that he worked for the good of all.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
C'mon Obama, surprise me for once . . .
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
Go have a cup of tea Dunghold you racist sack of maggot dung the adults are talking.
Oh and change your diaper while your at it. We know the very thought of a non janitorial Black Man in the White House scares the sh#t out of you and you are beginning to smell stale at best.
We all know full well your feelings about PRESIDENT OBAMA so go start your own damn thread.




Thank you Mr PRESIDENT for leading with a brain and not a bomb.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
The difference is that most people who voted for Obama chose him because they actually liked him, vs. Romney, who was by far the least desirable choice for Republicans during the primaries. The great majority of those who voted for Romney did so simply because he wasn't Obama...not because they actually liked him as a candidate.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
Maybe John E can chime in here and show Donald how someone can be gracious during auspicious moments in America's history.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:34pm PT

Yall didn't like, watch that sh#t on the telly, didjyu?


I did. I kept waiting for him to say something . . .

Never happened.







WBraun

climber
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:35pm PT
Americans are still stupid.

They only swim on the surface and have no clue about the deep .......
dirtbag

climber
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
Werner, you're as much of an idiot as anyone else. Get over yourself.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Dunghold you are fuked in the head, you pathetic gerbil packin weasel.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Agree with WBraun on this one. The American political system is broken.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
Donald....your whitering sarcasm would be more appreciated on another forum. You are, i am sure, well versed in how to access a tea party site.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
'...laying it on thick...'

You didn't just write that, did you, Ron?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
You are a class act, Duhnold

you prove it with every post
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
You are a crass ass Dunghold.

There fixed it for you.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
Another thread with the Left and Right throwing insults. Good times. Time to log off and do something productive.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
Dunghole is just a troll. nobody could be that much of an idiot.
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:56pm PT

Let's hope President Obama works for those that
elected him, knott the 1% he was beholden to his
first term.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
Steve W.. .Amen to that...!
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 21, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
It's 3 am in Japan and the inauguration just finished over here. I watched it on my computer.

Even though the symbolism was heavy - a Black president beginning a second term on Martin Luther King Day 150 years after the Civil War with an invocation by Merlie Evers, I was happy to see that President Obama seemed very happy and much more relaxed this time around.

Like many, I hope he has the confidence to fight back on our behalf with greater energy this term. The whole world wanted him to win the election and are rejoicing today along with us.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
I started this thread on a positive note. Then Dungie had to sh#t on it with his idiotic photo shopping. He is like the tossers who post gun pics on the boob thread.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
In a way we should enjoy Dungholes pathetic excuses for photoshopped images. As you point out they are nothing other than juvenile. Thus that fact that what we believe is 180 to his mis-founded (and soon to be dead) belief system is a reason to embrace him. Gives you the "i'm not like him and that's a dam good thing" perspective.

Carry on Donny.... you dung good.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
put down the glue and step away from the rubber and nobody will get hurt....
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
Gee Donald, how dare you post some anti-Obama pics. Your friends on the other side of the aisle never do this. They do their best to not insult you. Your so childish.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
One of the phenomena's of History that has perhaps fascinated me the most is the ability for people to clearly see the wrongs of the past while those who lived it in the past thought little or nothing of it. How vast portions of the population could be convinced that something we take for granted as pure evil now was just fine or even good back in the day.

How utterly blind they were to what seems obvious now.

So I often ask the question "are there things like slavery, fascism, the treatment of Indians, seperate but equal, that we are doing wrong these days"

Things that in the future our descendants will wonder at how incredibly stupid we were?

I've come up with a few.

regarding our current political system in the USA there is one that is glaring and currently the actual bedrock foundation of our political system. It is truly bizarre when looked at clearly.

A politician is required to seek out and secure massive bribes from "donors" in order to even begin to enter the arena.

It is foundational and completely corrupting. There is no way for these folks to truly represent the people's interests FIRST in such a system.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
Locker I simply don't understand your defense of Dunghole. He is a racist sh#t sack.
The crap he posts is not only facitious it is extremely offensive to my nieces and nephews.
F*#k that piece of Dung with a tire iron.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Philo.... your sick.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
Locker I would agree you are open minded but Dunghole is'nt. He is brain dead.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
I would have thought, of all days, this would be the one where Philo could be at least a little bit up-beat. Maybe show the positive side of his character.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
Chaz I started out that way.
Nohea

Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
I do not recall ever, as an adult, failing to be mystified whenever I encounter another adult expressing confidence in politicians – confidence either in an individual politician (say, confidence in Ronald Reagan or in Barack Obama) or confidence in politicians as a group. Successful politicians – and particularly those who are successful on national stages – are, with exceptions too few to matter, master con artists.


Whatever is the reason why so many grown people respect holders of political office is, as it has always been, beyond my comprehension. I just don’t get it. Practitioners of no other profession are accorded more honor, respect, and (most importantly) power while at the same time being held to such low standards of ethical behavior. Actions that, when committed by the family dog, properly elicit scolding or muzzling or even eviction from the premises are, when committed by an elected official, greeted with oohs, aahhs, applause, and re-election to powerful office.


So, the questions naturally arise: Why does anyone place any confidence in anything a politician says? Why does anyone expect anything but deception and predation from these dishonest reprobates? Why does anyone seek social improvement or economic salvation from the programs these ne’er-do-wells devise and implement? Why, indeed, do people continue to tolerate politics at all? (This last question presupposes, of course, that those who wish to use the political process to commit a de facto crime—that is, an act that, if committed privately, would be seen as plainly criminal—will be entirely in favor of politics because using the government as their agent-perpetrator offers a way to legalize their crimes. My question pertains to the noncriminal element of the population.)

Have fun yo!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
t*r said:

those photos aren't "funny", they're disrespectful and racist and anyone who doesn't say something about it is just as bad as the ones perpetuating it.


supertopo post of the year
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
+1 for t.r.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
+1 for Nohea
dirtbag

climber
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
+1 for boobs


Edit: +2 for boobs
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:51pm PT
Before everyone runs out and gets distracted by insults, lets keep our eye on the prize. The amount YOU owe, that the entire US owes, has easily doubled. Oh, right, it's Bushes fault isn't it? Let's rally and rail against the teaparty members who want to get our substantial out of control debt back under control.

http://www.usdebtclock.org/


Debt per US taxpayer is $145,000 plus. There's yer hope and change. They changed the amount you will be stuck paying into your old age.

I'm proud that we have a black President, the guy is super sharp and such a good speaker, but that doesn't mean he gets a pass. I think Locker has it nailed, funny stuff Donald! Thanks for directing me here Philo from your "lets all complain about Donald Thompson on another thread" you just started.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
You are correct

Bush DID double the debt

After Reagan tripled it

And no, no one has to pay it off, ever
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
The right just cannot get with it with this President.

They hope and pray that he will fail, proving them correct.

That means they HOPE that:

Obama will dimantle Congress and declare himself King
Obama will confiscate all guns nationwide
Obama will raise taxes on everyone making 30k to 100%

They they hope MOST OF ALL, that the US becomes a Russian province, and ceases the use of English as a language.

Because they would feel just so good.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 21, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
It's also of note that the last time we had three Presidents in a row serve two consecutive terms, their names were Jefferson, Madison, and Monroe.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
Norton said of the huge national debt which is balloning yet as I type this to even greater out of control proportions:
"no one has to pay it off, ever "

Clearly you ARE a died in the wool confirmed democrat. Thanks for the laugh.

..or the cry.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
t*r's got the right attitude, Ken M.

Why can't you be happy, just for today?

Perpetuating divisiness isn't what Dr King or President Obama stand for.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
Clearly you ARE a died in the wool confirmed democrat. Thanks for the laugh.

as usual, politically speaking you are again, WRONG

here is my Registration as a Republican

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
Actually Chaz If you are sincere I want to say thank you for that.
And that I will endeavor to persevere with appropriateness myself today.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
Democrats register as republican all the time. Proves nothing. You into voting for republicans ya say?
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
You into voting for republicans ya say?

yes

I vote in every Republican Primary election in my State

do you?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
Jeebus, the debt thing again - pretty much just distracting noise. But I will say, the five or so trillion on the national credit card for two unnecessary, pre-emptive wars never helps matters.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
I will add my congratulations to the President, and to all those who voted for him. He won fair and square, and I hope he can deliver on his promises of a better country. I will, of course, continue to express my opinion on how he best can do that, though!

I don't think today is a day to attack him. Instead, it's a day to recognize that he is the President of all of us in the United States, to wish him well, and to celebrate that we live in a country that changes governments peacefully, and without retribution.

Let the party continue.

John

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
Well said John. Thanks.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:39pm PT
As usual, JohnE is THE class act of the forum conservatives.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
Too bad Ron & Donald won't see John's post, or if they do, it will have no impression on them whatsoever.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
Not at all Mr Schmidt, quite the opposite. I'm registered democrat but I'm a libertarian by nature. In my state, if you register independent, like I use to do, you couldn't vote in the primaries. Usually vote for more democrats than republicans but I have and will continue to vote for whom I perceive to be the best, and not by party affiliation.

BTW, I hardly consider the national debt background distracting noise of no consequence. The opposite in fact. It's unsustainable and appears to be out of control that they can't even start to reign it in during "relatively" good times.
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
Police Dogs Attack Demonstrators, Birmingham Protests, May 1963.

I'm astounded by those who minimize our accomplishments in the last 50 years and actually want us to go back. President Barak Obama will surely be on the right side of history.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Jan 21, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Congratulations...*Mr President!!

I firmly believe today is a day to celebrate the president's huge achievement of winning a second term. Inaugurations, just like weddings, graduations, funerals, etc., it is a time to honor the person(s).

Tomorrow is another day.










Incredibly sad how some people choose to behave.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Fifty years ago there were still lynchings in the deep south. Today we Inaugurate a black man to a second Presidential term. I am proud of that fact and I am proud of my country.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
Yes Philo

And when I think back on my life, from the racism to the bombings in black churches, from the stupid horrors of Vietnam to the waste of life and taxpayers money in Iraq, I personally can't find any one thing that made me more proud of America than the President's 09 inauguration. Maybe the 1965 Civil Rights Act would be comparable.

I understand how Michelle Obama must have felt on that day, so proud of both her husband personally as a wife, and the American people for his historic election.

That particular election was an incredible leap, a moment when (most) Americans put aside their racial bias even for one election day, a giant leap for America.
martygarrison

Trad climber
Washington DC
Jan 21, 2013 - 03:51pm PT

Fun time at the Mall today.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Jan 21, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Those last 4 posts say it ,Congrats POTUS Barack Obama!
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Jan 21, 2013 - 05:05pm PT

+1, Nita!!!
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 21, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
I'm just so glad that Michelle is no longer ashamed of America

IF you had anything other than a knee jerk and very shallow intellect, you would know that her words to that effect were about expressing pride in an America that could put aside racism and elect a black man solely on the basis his political ideology

I am regular white guy, and for the first time in MY life I felt that same pride in my country in November of 08 when he was elected

but again, the very fact that you are not capable of "getting it" says it all about you, and nothing of how the President's wife felt at that moment

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 21, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
+1 for Norton
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jan 21, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Congressional Republicans heaped fulsome praise on President Obama’s second Inaugural Address today, saying that it had given them a detailed list of things to thwart over the next four years.

“My big fear was that the speech would be full of vague platitudes that wouldn’t be helpful to us in plotting against him,” said House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio). “Once he started offering details of what he actually hoped to accomplish, though, I realized we had hit the mother lode.”

Speaker Boehner praised the President for citing such specifics as hiring math and science teachers, building roads, and reducing health-care costs: “Now that we know that’s what he’s got in mind for his second term, we can hit the ground running to stop him.”

“My takeaway from the speech was, if we work hard enough, there’s nothing we can’t keep him from doing,” he said.

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) praised Mr. Obama for injecting humor into a usually somber address: “I loved that joke about ending political name-calling.”

Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 21, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
You and I, as citizens, have the power to set this country's course.

You and I, as citizens, have the obligation to shape the debates of our time — not only with the votes we cast, but with the voices we lift in defense of our most ancient values and enduring ideals.
enjoimx

Trad climber
Yosemite, ca
Jan 21, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
Baracka Flacka Flame
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 21, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
I prefer racism to show itself rather than hide from all of us. Thanks enjoimx. Good job....
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:22am PT
As citizens, they have a Constitutionally guaranteed First Amendment right to freely exercise their religion. Saying a "God Bless" or a prayer when they see fit falls under their free exercise protections.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:31am PT
Some don't like having to look at someone wearing a hijab or a turban any more than you like hearing someone say a prayer, but that's something we need to live with if we want to have a free country.

It's just a harmless part of their exercise of religion. If you don't like, you need to learn to at least tolerate it.

A person who objects to someone saying a prayer is just as bigoted as the guy who has a problem with someone wearing a turban.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jan 22, 2013 - 12:38am PT
Donald is too busy building rocket ships and sucking down Starbuck Lattes...
Risk

Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:04am PT
I prefer racists and fascists to expose themselves rather than hide from all of us. Thanks for the confirmation Thomp. Good job....
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Jan 22, 2013 - 05:26am PT
I'm appalled. I haven't seen this kind of racism since the l960's.
I thought that was all a part of our past. George Wallace must be sitting up in his grave smiling.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
Congratulations Mr PRESIDENT.
Bowser

Social climber
Durango CO
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
Let's give a "Hell Yea" for more national debt. RAH! RAH!

Lets give a "Hell Yea" for higher taxes and bigger government. RAH! RAH

Obamacare, Hell yea, great fuking idea! Deputize Doctors?????? RAH! RAH!

Let's give raises to top staff members. HOOOORAWWWWW!

Let's claim to want to save lives but support abortion. Right on dude!

Let's create a tax exempt propaganda machine that doesn't have to report income. Hell yea for transparency.

Lets' print more money and raise the debt ceiling. That strategy really works well as a business model. WOOO HOOOO!

Let's spend millions of dollars on gun control that is historically proven not to work.

Obamacows.......

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
Takes fertilizer for the flowers to bloom.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jan 22, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
It seems Honey Boo Boo has given birth ^^^
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 5, 2017 - 04:13pm PT
Now we have the Swamp Thing that thinks he can run the United States through tweets and his incredible band of Slitherings. How far can we fall?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 5, 2017 - 04:17pm PT
Much farther.
Bruce Morris

Trad climber
Belmont, California
Mar 5, 2017 - 04:44pm PT
It's coming closer and closer to the outcome I've always imagined: Trumposaurus led out of the WH in handcuffs and the whole House of Cards coming crashing down. An interim government like some South American country? A major Constitutional crisis? Anything might happen now.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 5, 2017 - 05:02pm PT
Someone made a FISA request to tap the server in Trump Tower communicating with a Russian bank server. You can bet Breitbert and other fake news orgs will keep pounding away at blaming Obama and the base will love it. If the techs had used static ip addresses, instead of DNS lookups, they would not have been discovered.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html

Edit: Clapper says there was no FISA warrant. Trump's got some explaining to do.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/05/politics/clapper-trump-wiretap/index.html
stunewberry

Trad climber
Spokane, WA
Mar 5, 2017 - 05:39pm PT
Monolith's link to the slate article deserves its own thread.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 5, 2017 - 05:55pm PT


Wiretap Trump? He coulda just droned him.
-Jess Sayin

It provides no details of how high-value targets are chosen or any geographic limitations, and it includes several presidential waivers of its criteria in the event of “fleeting opportunity” to take action.

“Nothing in this PPG shall be construed to prevent the President from exercising his constitutional authority as Commander in Chief and Chief Executive, as well as his statutory authority, to consider a lawful proposal” that falls outside the guidelines, including a possible strike against “an individual who poses a continuing, imminent threat to another country’s persons,” it says.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 5, 2017 - 06:03pm PT
Two Sources who see to be pretty well connected within the Intelligence Community. They have some pretty interesting viewpoints and links to others
https://twitter.com/20committee
https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch

I am watching Fox News as I type - holy crap, what a different perspective.

Edit: Hahah - They showed an image of Trump Tower in NYC, cropped around the n=building name - cropped to exclude the "T" making it "Rump Tower." Mabe Fox isn't all bad..... KelleyAnne Conway is on now...
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 5, 2017 - 09:08pm PT
I am watching Fox News as I type - holy crap, what a different perspective

If you watch it consistently you may find it not as biased as you think. For example, O'reilly, Chris Wallace, Shepard Smith, and others have come down pretty strongly on Trump and his minions at times. But many others at Fox put a familiar spin on all the news. Not so of course on MSNBC, where neutrality reigns.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 6, 2017 - 08:56am PT
JGill - I cannot watch consistently, as I am just not a consistent news site watcher, but it is true that I have noticed a difference in recent times, when seeing snippets of Fox, where I have been pleasantly surprised.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 6, 2017 - 09:13am PT
If you watch it consistently

Gotta have time for that Mr. Retired Bouldererer!!!

Go grab a couple maple bars from Lamar's and tune in!

I don't watch anything consistently, I did watch Mash re-runs last winter while making dinner fairly consistently, way better than other TV stuffs these days.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 6, 2017 - 01:35pm PT
I have a question about this travel ban. Ostensibly it is to make us safer, to block terrorists. Out of the 19 hijackers officially recognized as part of the 9/11 attacks, NOT ONE OF THEM WOULD BE BLOCKED BY THESE RULES:
15 were from Saudi Arabia
2 were from United Arab Emirates
1 was from Egypt
1 was from Lebanon

I guess the main problem is those countries have a market of rich people that would be patrons at upscale Trump facilities. Maybe when they are giving him money to rent out floors, he can talk them into stopping state-sponsored terrorism and we can get back to letting in people who want to come here and make a better life for themselves?

 http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/17/news/dubai-golf-club-trump/
 http://www.trumpgolfdubai.com/
 coming in 2018: http://www.trump.com/golf/trump-world-golf-club-dubai/
 Trump Marks Egypt https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_de/4424526
 La Residence by Ivana Trump in Beirut (http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=132384); and from NY Daily News website back in 2006 http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/ivana-bets-beirut-article-1.572306

A trademark search for Trump in Lebanon pulls up the Ivana interest, and an exporter of Fertilizer and Agro-chemical products. Hmmm.. not clear whether this "Trump" is the same as Donald or Ivana, but it definitely raises a question I would like investigated... a company with export permissions and bomb-making capabilities with the word Trump registered as a trademark in Lebanon. Dean Whiting: "Beirut Rules, Mr. Barnes?"
Well, no smoking gun in this country, but there is smoke to be investigated. Maybe Ivana fully divested after a sale around 2009, and maybe The Donald was not involved at all? But maybe his name trademark earned him a kickback? Maybe he wants to keep the peace with Ivana? What did she do with her income from that deal? Chances are it wasn't all reported for IRS purposes, so it would need to stay in-country to be reinvested (or maybe sent to a different country).


Several news agencies reported that he shut down corporations for projects in Saudi Arabia around the time of the election, after it had been more widely publicized. I guess now those would be managed through a series of shell companies that trace back to his kids? Who knows, but pretty damn fishy.

I just had an Uber ride with an Asian-American guy who is a Trump supporter. His biggest motivation, aside from being a long-time Republican, seems to be fear of foreigners (Muslims in specific) "taking over cities the way they are in Europe." So it's not really about trying to stop all the terrorists; that's just the cover story for the less politically correct intention of maintaining a familiar/comfortable mix of ethnicities while we can keep paying lip service to what makes America Great.


Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 6, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
She begged a store not to sell her mentally ill daughter a gun. It did anyway — with a tragic result.

Janet Delana had called the police, the ATF and the FBI. Finally, she pleaded with a manager at the gun shop. Even so, Colby Sue Weathers — a paranoid schizophrenic — was able to buy a gun, and soon her father was dead. The large settlement Delana won from the shop could provide a legal road map for similar lawsuits around the country.

Thanks, Republican supporters. Now we have one more American killed by a mentally ill gun owner, than we had Americans killed by all the (non-existent) terrorists from the banned countries.

Leave it to the good people of Colorado to think that it is a good idea to give firearms to mentally disturbed people. I guess their way of celebrating John Hinckley, Jr.
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Mar 6, 2017 - 04:37pm PT
Well it looks like we now have a bill for Trumpcare. Looks weak and SAD. Vouchers, and undersized ones at that. If this is the best the Republicans can come up with after 7 years of whining about Tyranny I can only conclude they are big hat, no cattle.

But I already knew that.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 6, 2017 - 04:53pm PT
DID HE SAY AMERICAN STEEL? BUT AMERICA DOES NOT MEAN US YOU SILLY VOTER.

"After green lighting the continuation of the controversial Keystone XL oil pipeline in an executive order January 24th, President Trump declared as recently as last week that the pipeline had to use American made steel “or we’re not building one.”

But on Friday he reversed that order.

"That sharp reversal now paves the way for the use of a stockpile of steel manufactured in Canada by a subsidiary of Evraz, a company in which Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich owns nearly a one/third stake.

"Abramovich, estimated to be worth $8.9 billion, who ranks No. 151 on Forbes list of the 500 wealthiest people in the world, has longstanding personal and political ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin, whom President Trump has repeatedly praised."
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 6, 2017 - 04:54pm PT
http://time.com/money/4691860/obamacare-repeal-replacement-plan/

Doesn't look good for older Americans. A 60 year old will have premiums 5x a 21 year old but only get twice the subsidy.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 6, 2017 - 05:19pm PT

Ken: Leave it to the good people of Colorado to think that it is a good idea to give firearms to mentally disturbed people. I guess their way of celebrating John Hinckley, Jr.



Tradgedy in Missouri - Colby Sue Weathers


Just another case of a presentation of alternate facts by an astute urban liberal it seems.
sempervirens

climber
Mar 6, 2017 - 05:33pm PT
Yes, New World, that is a stupid question.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 6, 2017 - 05:54pm PT
Why don't you ask the dead "liberals" who died in service to America?


Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 6, 2017 - 05:56pm PT
John G, no alternate facts: The President signed an executive order that makes is legal for chronically mentally ill people to be able to buy guns.

You own that, but apparently don't have the courage to defend it.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 6, 2017 - 05:58pm PT
US taxpayers have the right to expect that the giant companies that receive federal contracts will follow the law – including worker protections.

The Obama Administration issued a rule that forces any company that wants a government contract worth more than $500,000 to disclose any labor law violations from the previous three years. This rule only hits massive corporations that repeatedly steal workers’ wages or put their lives at risk.

But tonight, the Senate Republicans are repealing that rule.
Who does this Congress work for – hardworking Americans who want their tax dollars spent responsibly, or the giant corporations that can’t even follow basic safety rules for their workers?

Glad that the upstanding citizens of Colorado would rather kill their middle class workers, than protect them. Nice assertive act that clearly states who they stand up for.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 6, 2017 - 08:15pm PT
John G, no alternate facts


You've said you "immigrated" to California from Wyoming or Montana with your parents, so perhaps you don't know the difference between the states of Colorado and Missouri. That's forgivable, Commodore, for Deplorables, like the Zombie multitudes, rule there, protected by their Aryan and KKK militias.

;>)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 6, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
new world oligarch, I served my country in an elite outfit, I would do it again. Somehow I don't think you took the same opportunity.
I fly my oversized American flag proudly most of the year. I'm as red white and blue as most so called conservatives can ever be. But thanks for checking me-so-holy.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 6, 2017 - 08:43pm PT
Jody...You zomby...!!!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 6, 2017 - 09:02pm PT
Wow Jody, I guess Warner's been right all this time.
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Mar 6, 2017 - 09:13pm PT
Jody, replace President Obama in what you said and you describe the last 8 years of mostly unfounded slander against a mediocre, but honest and well meaning man. The last bit cannot be said about Trump without choking on your own BS.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 6, 2017 - 09:27pm PT
Donald Trump's wiretap tweets raise his risk of impeachment

President Donald Trump has accused his predecessor, President Barack Obama, of an act that could have gotten the past president impeached. That's not your ordinary exercise of free speech. If the accusation were true, and Obama did order a warrantless wiretap of Trump during the campaign, the scandal would be of Watergate-level proportions.

But if the allegation is not true and is unsupported by evidence, that too should be a scandal on a major scale. This is the kind of accusation that, taken as part of a broader course of conduct, could get the current president impeached.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-trump-impeachment-wiretapping-20170306-story.html

And I pretty much knew Jody would engage with his adhom attacks.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 6, 2017 - 09:39pm PT
In 2004, the Tribune endorsed President George W. Bush for re-election, a decision consistent with its longstanding support for the Republican Party. In 2008, it endorsed Democratic candidate and Illinois junior U.S. Senator Barack Obama—the first time that it had ever endorsed a Democrat for president.[100] The Tribune endorsed Obama once again for reelection in 2012.[101]

....

In 2016, the Tribune endorsed the Libertarian Party candidate, former New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson for president, over Republican Donald Trump and Democrat Hillary Clinton.

NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:04am PT
Jody, do you believe that of the known 19 hijackers during 9/11, these were there nationalities:
15 from Saudi Arabia
2 from United Arab Emirates
1 from Egypt
1 from Lebanon

Jody, do you believe that Trump has some interest in at least 2 golf resorts in United Arab Emirates, that his ex-wife at least has a large financial interest in Lebanon, that he has companies in Egypt, and until a few months ago had companies in Saudi Arabia? It is not public knowledge what happened to the assets of the Saudi companies, but a reasonable person might suspect that they were rearranged into a different entity that the public is not aware of. It's ok to dispute the Saudi part because we don't have actual clear facts about that yet; but as a police officer, you were trained to follow a chain of observations and see where they are going.

Jody, how do you account for not one of the countries that gave us 9/11 hijackers being on the current travel ban?

Or is it an inside joke that half of the country doesn't care? That they are really focused on stopping the influx of Islamic people regardless of consequences, and this "terrorist" label is just a convenient way to do that without violating political correctness standards and technicalities of our laws that ban religious discrimination?

My Catholic wife from Italy just got her green card a few weeks ago. Her employer (a major university) just sent out letters that the H1B premium processing is stopped until October. We have relied on this process for the last several years to visit her family. The standard process is not compatible with anyone who has a job as a university professor/researcher. This would have effectively stopped her from visiting her family or attending international conferences which are a critical part of her work- including the recruitment of foreign post-doctoral researchers because there are not enough of them with a good track record of quality scientific publications within America. This rule will have a material impact in slowing down cures for cancer, other medical ailments, and all manner of scientific advancement. Or at least it will cause these advancements to be made in other countries, and result in foreign companies coming to market with drugs and various treatments before America, further setting back the quality of our healthcare.

It is dangerous to let ideas that are popular for uneducated people from small towns dictate national policy. It's like crabs in a pot, pulling back anyone who escapes.

I do acknowledge that metro-centric ideas of dense populations should not dictate policies either, that there needs to be more accommodations for rural ways of life... America cannot be "Great" until we find a way to harmonize ideas about how to live life. It's ok to be wildly different in values, but there need to be some basic ground rules for how to empower people to have different beliefs without imposing them on the people around them. In other words, anyone should be able to believe whatever wacky thing they want as long as there is not a consequence to other people. The moment when other people are affected, then an individual loses unfettered freedom and there must be a balance of freedom and responsibility. I like to use smoking as an analogy- people should be free to smoke, but not in places where it affects the health of people around them. Freedom balanced with responsibility to your fellow humans.

The preset immigration plan is irresponsible. It doesn't effectively block terrorists, it has loopholes that preferentially benefit the personal well-being of the President, and it has unintended side-effects for millions of people, vastly outstripping any real potential benefits. It's just more theater to give illusory comfort to fear-driven people, but the real damage being caused is not theater.
c wilmot

climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:13am PT
Der takin our jobs!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:13am PT
Powerful, Nut. What we have is policy shaped by what Trump reads on alt-right websites. It also happens to be where his supporters get their "news".

"Chicago Fibune"?? What's silliness. Jody, correct course. It's not too late.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:14am PT
As I have written before: Following https://twitter.com/20committee and those he is hanging with gives you some very good information on the specifics of these latest escapades.

To note: the man behind 20 Committee is a Conservative, who has worked in National Security. His opinions and vantage point place him in a unique position to parse the massive coverage being fed us through various media channels.

Last night he posted "I am confident that, in the end, the Republic & our democracy will prevail and the Kremlin-linked traitors will get their rightful fate."

Take that as you will, but I see it as an indication that unless the so-far bumbling Trump group has been playing stupid all along, they are toast. We will see, of course. Could go any which way.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:16am PT
The people trying to bring down the Trump presidency hate their country.
Holy crap Jody, of all the stupid things you've posted on this site, I have to believe that's the stupidest by far. Tragic really. You have no understanding of the democracy you live in. You can't love your country and defend that fascist. Given what's he's done so far, and what he aims on doing, if you still defend him you are nothing less than an accomplice. We hate Trump because we LOVE our country. Trump is not the nation; he is a malignant dictator that other mindless fools were careless to elect in the first place.
Da-Veed

Big Wall climber
Bigfork
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:20am PT
WOW 2+2=4! It all makes sense now.......Jody is a cop.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:21am PT
Jody, I am being earnest, but I am not hysterical. I am not hiding behind a facade of humor. I ask you to come to the table and put your real fears and hopes out there. The worst that can happen is people will make fun of you, but if you have the conviction of your thoughts and feelings, that can't hurt you at all.

Edit: Looks like you are taking as step in that direction with post above this one... Please respond to the points I raised and help me see how that is rational, and in our country's interest, from your perspective.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:28am PT
Nut, dude. Love ya man, but sometimes you kinda remind me of the guy on campus preaching to the pigeons. You will never change their marble-sized minds. Better to withdraw.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 7, 2017 - 09:29am PT
Like I said, hysteria.
That's what you call denial. Some might call it sociopathy.

I suppose all those people you trumped up as a LEO was a benefit to the community.

Nut, I give you a lot of credit but, sadly, you're wasting your breathe. It's tempting to think that being reasonable will eventually reach everyone, but some people are lost and you can't bring them back.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 7, 2017 - 10:38am PT
new world orderin' people around seems like to me


my father served this country precisely because it is ideally free from folks lording over what I say and do, whether or not that means I use a US flag-themed vibrator on my woman.
Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Mar 7, 2017 - 10:56am PT
People who pushed the Obama Birther movement hated our country and were trying to de-legitimize our then president, oh wait...

Still waiting for Obama's Martial Law order. When is that due?

Where are all those death panels? 20 Million gained insurance, which on the whole has been a great positive result. No death panels in sight so far...

How about the huge gun round ups that were coming ANY DAY? Still waiting. Mentally ill lost access briefly, but that is now reversed (was Trump afraid he would be excluded?).

I could go on. The shrillness of the right for the previous 8 years leaves no moral high ground to complain about the current round or outrage and protest from the left. At least the current outrage is mostly based on actual orders and proposed legislation, not mythical birth certificates and Info Wars conspiracy theories dreamed up by red faced spittle spewers off their meds.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 7, 2017 - 10:58am PT
Proud to know you. Proud to have roped up with you. Proud to have served in the same service as you.


DMT, you made my whole damn day right there.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 7, 2017 - 11:34am PT
People who pushed the Obama Birther movement hated our country and were trying to de-legitimize our then president, oh wait...

Still waiting for Obama's Martial Law order. When is that due?

Where are all those death panels? 20 Million gained insurance, which on the whole has been a great positive result. No death panels in sight so far...

How about the huge gun round ups that were coming ANY DAY? Still waiting. Mentally ill lost access briefly, but that is now reversed (wsa Trump afraid he would be excluded?).

I could go on. The shrillness of the right for the previous 8 years leaves no moral high ground to complain about the current round or outrage and protest from the right. At least the current outrage is moslty based on actual orders and proposed legislation, not mythical birth certificates and Info Wars conspiracy theories dreamed up by red faced spittle spewers off their meds.

You forgot the underground Walmart tunnels takeover. What was it JadeHelm 12,000 or something? Jody was in on the resistance planning for that one. NewWorldOligarch was gonna be the new secretary of wrist chipping I believe.

Thank Gawd we're saved from all that now, in our new Great America.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 7, 2017 - 11:38am PT
Jody's just pissed cause Obama took his guns.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 12:35pm PT
I've been to three protests since the innaugatation.

At the last one, protestors were given American flags, I've yet to see kooks with black masks at any of them, and no one was paid to be there.

Oh I know... "But Alex Jones says..."
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Mar 7, 2017 - 01:20pm PT
You can be clear on the fact that those who are wearing masks are the thugs of the Oligarchs.
We will see more and more of them, sent to disrupt peaceful protests. Inciting the crowds to riot.
As the rise of violence at protests continue, it will be blamed on the ' resistance ' to the pussy grabber 'N Thief so president Bannon, who will call for marshal law. .


Shadowing the 1930 rise of. .

Hey Wade Icey !
Where's that picture of the pussy grabber 'N Thief?

It goes way back with his history of anti-semitism & bigotry the family created a residential program to keep neighborhoods all white W.AS.P.
it worked.
Go look it up, see how the NJ side of the Hudson River where it was once all access park-land, got closed to - climbing - biking - walking - any use at all, of the Pallisades park land.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 7, 2017 - 01:39pm PT
A population is not defined by an individual, and a crowd of protesters is made of many elements. The vast majority of them- just like the vast majority of humans- are peaceful people who want a better world for themselves and the people around them. Any public gathering is a target for anarchist/destructive/thoughtless angry people. If you are an anarchist/destructive/thoughtless person, it is hard to organize your own gatherings to promote your agenda ;) Like those kids who suck at making sand castles but have fun tearing down the ones that others make.

The real vindictive, ugly, thoughtful acts come in when people with specific political agendas use these thugs to distract from a group of normally non-political people who are moved to rise up and take a peaceful stand against a government not representing their values. Or when media outlets promote sensational news stories to make headlines and collect ad revenue when it is misleading and undermining our democracy.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 01:43pm PT
You really don't search out information other than what Salon reports, do you dirtbag

Lol, whatever dude.

I just told you my experience. If you'd rather rely on cherry picked anecdotes knock yourself out.

Edit: and, what nutagain said.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 02:02pm PT
Waste of time explaining anything to an Alex Jones conspiracy nut.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 02:08pm PT
^^^^??????????^^^


dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 02:18pm PT
Please stop linking me with an article on pedophiles. I don't appreciate it. It's weird, frankly.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 7, 2017 - 02:33pm PT
"The carping and bickering of political factions in the nation's capital reminds me of two pelicans quarreling over a dead fish." -- William Tecumseh Sherman
Spiny Norman

Social climber
Boring, Oregon
Mar 7, 2017 - 03:53pm PT
"new world order2" is a logical fallacy emitter.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2017 - 05:08pm PT
You've said you "immigrated" to California from Wyoming or Montana with your parents, so perhaps you don't know the difference between the states of Colorado and Missouri. That's forgivable, Commodore, for Deplorables, like the Zombie multitudes, rule there, protected by their Aryan and KKK militias.

No, I was born in Ca. You are confusing where my family came from.....but you conservatives like to paint people on the basis of their forebears, I understand.

I totally understand the difference between the two states. Perhaps, in your doddering old age, you forgot who you supported in the election, the same man who thinks it should be the law of the ENTIRE US that mentally ill people should be able to buy guys.

The John Hinckley Celebratory Act.

I suppose your position is that as long as some OTHER Americans get killed, that's fine with Colorado.

So now you want to hide behind the Flatirons, and not take responsibility for your vote, and your choice, and what happens because of it.

We don't forget.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2017 - 05:27pm PT
To fund border wall, Trump administration weighs cuts to Coast Guard, airport security

The plan puts the administration in the unusual position of trading spending on security programs for other security priorities at the southern border, raising questions among GOP lawmakers and homeland security experts.

Gosh, why would anyone think that decreased airline security could result in anything bad happening? Maybe someone who flies in their own private plane?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 7, 2017 - 05:38pm PT
The Trump White House is totally changing its tune on wiretapping and hoping you don’t notice

An investigation to find the evidence that Trump already said he had.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 7, 2017 - 06:54pm PT
and what country, pray-tell, is #1 jody?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 7, 2017 - 06:59pm PT
Jody, do you know the origin of the derogatory term snowflake?

I do.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 07:02pm PT
Hey, we survived 8 years of Obummer going around the world apologizing for how pathetic the USA was and doing everything in his power to makes sure the USA was NOT a power in the world...you whiney, hysterical, snowflakes can surely survive 8 years of Trump trying to repair the damage and make the USA #1 again


Don't worry Jody. We'll save the country from the narcissistic know nothing bigot so you can do whatever is you do.

Btw, there are millions of us "snowflakes." That sounds like a blizzard to me.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 7, 2017 - 07:11pm PT
the origin of the derogatory term snowflake

I have wondered. I just thought it was a sort of Fight Club referenced way of saying that people who are Democrats think that they are special and unique, and the F with that!

A thought occurred to me today, regarding the strange Trump Tweets. Maybe it is his way of trying to let us know, in code, that he is being "held hostage" by Putin and Co..... You know, like when the lady called Dominos and ordered that pizza because they would know something was wrong(I forget how that worked, but it did). Or when you have a bad guy waiting behind the door to the next room when you answer the door and it's the mailman with a package and you say something like "Have you been able to locate that lost package yet?" and give him the imploring eyes that say "I KNOW you know there is no lost package - HELLLLPPPPPP!!!!"

So, Trump is Tweeting crazy in the hopes that someone - anyone - will realize he's in dire trouble and come rescue him.


"Uhh, no." you say?

At any rate, from now one when he tweets I'm going to pretend it's from "Hostage Trump."
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 7, 2017 - 07:20pm PT
I bet Trump will grant Assange amnesty, IF he can last 4 years, without being impeached ;-)

[Click to View YouTube Video]
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 7, 2017 - 07:45pm PT
I think Jody was thinking of George W. Bush who apologized to Communist China for making them shoot down our recon plane.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 7, 2017 - 07:51pm PT
I got to enjoy a lot of Fox news today on a 90 minute drive to Boise & back.

The "spin" from Republican congressmen & Fox common-taters on Trump's crazed early-morning tweets about Obama wire-tapping him, is sad but predictable.

The "mouth-pieces" want those allegations to be investigated by the same panel that investigates Russian Involvement in the election. When pressed on whether Trump's Tweets have any factual background, the mouth-pieces just kept saying schist like:

"that's not for me to judge."
"Just let the investigation look at all the facts."
"I'm sure our president wouldn't have made those accusations without evidence."
etc, etc.

Same old tactics. Keep throwing Bullschist & hope some of it sticks to your target. If nothing else, the masses get bored with the subject.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 7, 2017 - 08:50pm PT
http://www.dailycamera.com/science_environment/ci_30841915/trump-budget-cuts-could-be-devastating-noaa-scientists

"One critic of those proposed cuts pointed out that the $990 million savings would fund the Department of Defense for 12 hours."

Well that's 12 hours our most fearful citizens will be able to sleep easier!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 8, 2017 - 11:17am PT
Jody, you need to get with the program!

Trump's motto is "America First". He does NOT want to be the worlds's policeman, he does NOT want to be the leader of democracies, he does NOT want to be Reagan's "shining city on the hill".

He is gutting the State Department, he wants to eliminate 90% of foreign aid (oooops, there goes Israel)

You better know who you are backing!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 8, 2017 - 02:40pm PT
I have wondered. I just thought it was a sort of Fight Club referenced way of saying that people who are Democrats think that they are special and unique, and the F with that!

Actually Happie, it's what the Germans said to refer to the ashes floating down from concentration camp chimneys. So they referred to the Jews as snowflakes.
WBraun

climber
Mar 8, 2017 - 02:45pm PT
I bet Trump will grant Assange amnesty

Assange doesn't even need amnesty.

He's a covert tool for the US intel agencies to spread bullsh!t.

You people are soooo 0wned and believe sooo much bullsh!t they throw at you.

Assange always shows up when something needs covered up or disinfoed.

Stoopid Americans ......
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 8, 2017 - 03:16pm PT
We haven't heard that story here on Earth.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 8, 2017 - 05:49pm PT
Actually Happie, it's what the Germans said to refer to the ashes floating down from concentration camp chimneys. So they referred to the Jews as snowflakes.

I remember reading that long ago. But how does that relate to all the angry Trumpers who use it in a derogatory manner to refer to Libtards?
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 9, 2017 - 10:29am PT
I bet Trump will grant Assange amnesty

I confess to a little tongue-in-cheek trolling there, Werner. :-)

Am proving Canadians can be just as stoopid as "Americans". ha ha.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 9, 2017 - 12:15pm PT
Congratulations Mr. President, you are now linked to the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. I am sure you know nothing about it. Maybe YOU should look at your tax return.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/trump-hotel-in-baku-tied-to-corrupt-oligarchs-irans-revolutionary-guards-report/
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 9, 2017 - 03:20pm PT
^The inart of the deal.

k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Mar 10, 2017 - 07:29am PT
These are pretty eye-opening:

[Click to View YouTube Video]


[Click to View YouTube Video]

I'm looking for the opening segment of Maddow's show from last night (the 9th), it is incredible.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 10, 2017 - 07:43am PT
Here's a recent Pew Research poll on American's thoughts about Obama vs Trump

(Of course no Trumpiteer will believe it.)

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 10, 2017 - 09:11am PT
From the first page of this very thread....


A foundation stone of graciousness is not believing your opponent has "irrational hatred" just because s/he doesn't agree with you.

Now you hypocrites have a "political opponent" in power, and there's nary a HINT of the "graciousness" you expected from others.

Oh, you'll say, "But Trump is HORRENDOUS, nothing like anybody before him, so all bets are off."

But that's just a smokescreen. MANY of us who voted for Obama first-term did not for the second-term. We believed (and still do) that seeing what he turned out to be was HORRENDOUS. The point is that you always think that the latest iteration of your "political opponent" is HORRENDOUS.

But that does not justify your blatant hypocrisy.

The sky is not falling. You'll get another chance, so that you can return to your typical attitude as exemplified by the opening pages of this thread.

For this moment, however, the shoe is on the other foot, and YOU guys are the losers. Buck up and be gracious.
John M

climber
Mar 10, 2017 - 09:24am PT
For this moment, however, the shoe is on the other foot, and YOU guys are the losers. Buck up and be gracious.

I agree that people need to be gracious losers, but when did you ever say this to the republicans when they were excoriating Obama? And why didn't you? Don't you remember that Trump led the way on Obama's birth certificate? Why is is okay for Republicans to be mean spirited and obstructionists, and not okay for Democrats?

Neither party has a lock on decency.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 10, 2017 - 09:26am PT
This is an interesting article that merits attention:
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/03/scholarly_study_reveals_how_badly_hillary_screwed_up_campaign_advertising.html

I'm only in the beginning right now, but there is an irony that jumps out- Hillary's ads were personal attacks and Donald's were policies? Seems backward from how I think of the candidates, but I never saw any of the ads. If this is true, it reinforces my support of the Bernie approach of being all about policy.




Edit: Is this stuff legit? It is warping my brain because every live interaction I saw between Trump and anyone else, he was all about tearing down the other person, and completely devoid of substance. Maybe the TV ads were different? As I read the article ("For all of the talk of the unusual advertising campaign that Trump ran in 2016, his message strategy was more traditionally policy-focused"), it doesn't fit with what I experienced via Youtube of different rallies and debates.
John M

climber
Mar 10, 2017 - 09:30am PT
Nut.. Hillary had some ads that only used Trumps words. So in that sense, they were personal. Powerful, and she never called him anything. She just used his own words.

Every day I shake my head at how crazy the word has gotten.

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 10, 2017 - 09:45am PT
At least when Republicans were supposed to be gracious there was an intelligent, articulate, well educated man in office, who maintained some professional bearing and behavior.
Now there's a blustering, ignorant bully buffoon in office. F*#k Trump.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 10, 2017 - 10:21am PT
Neither party has a lock on decency.

No, but WE weren't the ones strongly advocating "decency" when it was KNOWN that Hillary could not lose.

How about start with decrying the violence in the streets?

How about stop with the "not my president" bit?

NOBODY I know, myself included, were popping off with "not my president" when Obama got a second term. And WE weren't rioting in the streets and calling it justified.

There's a process. It was followed. It will be followed again in the future. The least your side can do is quit rioting and ACCEPT the FACT that Trump is YOUR president as much as Obama was mine.

Hold him accountable? Sure! As best is possible in such a politicized environment.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2017 - 10:27am PT
Redneckery.

madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 10, 2017 - 10:43am PT
Stupidity
John M

climber
Mar 10, 2017 - 10:48am PT
I don't know anyone who was calling the rioting justified. Protesting.. fine. but rioting no.. so why not get off the high horse? And yes, many liberals were calling for decency. That doesn't mean that all liberals are going to be decent. Nor does it mean that the ones calling for decency are hypocrites simply because some liberals were behaving poorly. Where were the Republicans calling for decency? Where were you? I have called out a number of liberals on this site for their behavior. What have you done about conservatives poor behavior? Where were you when Cragman was laughing at Michelle Obama's "manly" arms? How about when Jody takes glee in liberals being upset? Where is the decency in that.

Get off you high horse Mad. You especially have no place on one. You have a serious problem when lumping people all together. You decry it when liberals do it, such as when they say all conservative are war mongers. Yet you then turn around and do the same kind of thing.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2017 - 10:55am PT
Thanks John.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Mar 10, 2017 - 11:34am PT
Get off you high horse Mad. You especially have no place on one. You have a serious problem when lumping people all together. You decry it when liberals do it, such as when they say all conservative are war mongers. Yet you then turn around and do the same kind of thing.

Right back atcha.

And I'm clearly talking about libs on this site.

Show me ONE post where a lib on this site has decried the rioting.

Show me ONE post where a lib on this site has said anything like, "I hate Trump, but he IS my duly-elected president."
dirtbag

climber
Mar 10, 2017 - 11:52am PT
Good read, addressing trump's attack on democracy.




Oh, and rioting is bad. There. I've said it before too.

But most protests have been peaceful. I've been to three completely peaceful protests. How many riots have occurred at the multiple congressional town halls? Or at the 4 million strong women's march? Or the day without women?

Your fixation on riots is disingenuous, to say the least. That's what happens when you read breitbart and other trump propaganda.
John M

climber
Mar 10, 2017 - 12:57pm PT
Show me ONE post where a lib on this site has said anything like, "I hate Trump, but he IS my duly-elected president."

two can play this game. Show me one post where conservatives said that about Obama.

Good grief. Kids games.

I and many others here decried the rioting. Apogee I know did. So did dirtbag. And many others. If you didn't see it, then you need to check your bias.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 10, 2017 - 02:16pm PT
Mickey Mouse Reagan and Donald Duck Rafferty. One went on to become President.

Therefore, Mickey Mouse, I challenge you to a duel, to the death, and you can choose the weapons. And if you can’t relate to that, right on. Walk, chicken, with your ass picked clean.

-Presidential Candidate Eldridge Cleaver







NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 10, 2017 - 02:19pm PT
http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-jeff-sessions-asks-46-obama-era-u-s-1489181229-htmlstory.html


Looks like cleaning house to make sure they have allies among whomever handles Trump investigations when Sessions is also implicated.

Edit: Looks like I went off half-cocked for singling out Trump on this one. It's pretty typical for a new power to get rid of those with prior allegiances and replace them with folks who are grateful to the powers that appointed them. Same for management teams in big companies.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 10, 2017 - 04:39pm PT
Where were the Republicans calling for decency? Where were you? I have called out a number of liberals on this site for their behavior. What have you done about conservatives poor behavior? Where were you when Cragman was laughing at Michelle Obama's "manly" arms? How about when Jody takes glee in liberals being upset? Where is the decency in that.

Decency?

Where was Bolter when John McCain was attacked?
Where was he when a Gold Star family was attacked?
Where was he when a federal judge was attacked?

I have posted that I accept Trump as President.

Decency? Trump is about showing that it is not needed.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 10, 2017 - 04:41pm PT



CNN:

When one reporter asked him about Wikileaks' CIA dump, Trump smiled and did not respond.

So here's a thought: Perhaps Trump directed Wikileaks to disclose this, by way of his good friends, the Russians. As a means of getting even with his enemy, the US intelligence agencies?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 10, 2017 - 05:19pm PT
Somewhere in Washington D.C. (or nearby) there are gatherings of intelligent men and women from the intelligence agencies, the military, the Justice Department, the EPA, etal and they are discussing this ignoramus and what to do about him. I suspect (for no known reason) that the military has alerted generals to watch Trump's use of the attack codes, as they did with Nixon. This travesty of a mockery of a sham won't continue forever. Or so I hope.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 10, 2017 - 08:33pm PT
"Be gracious" to Trump. Now, that's about the most absurd thing I've ever read on the forum, and that's saying a lot.

The reaction to this clown is tame. Wait until it gets to the level it should be.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 10, 2017 - 09:41pm PT
collaborator
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 10, 2017 - 09:50pm PT
Wino, you use the term 'intelligent' when referring to generals? Really?
Some of them are but a lot of them are poster chillen for the Peter Principle, too.
They're the ones that run the Pentagon and are solely concerned with
protecting their turf. They're the ones that oversee the writing of weapons
systems proposals, no matter how crankloonish, that wind up getting them a
really nice job on a corporate board when they retire. Those are very
dangerous people. Those are the people that fought tooth and nail AGAINST
the F-16 because it didn't fit their pea-brained conception of a 'fighter'.
They're the crankloons who fought tooth and nail FOR the F-111 and B-1,
both of which are among the biggest wastes of money ever spent. Need I go on?
perswig

climber
Mar 11, 2017 - 05:12am PT
They're the crankloons who fought tooth and nail FOR the F-111 and B-1

Would not expect that cohort to still be active, but agree on the species.
Now the F-35, LCS boondoggle, and arguably the Stryker vehicle concept...

Dale
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 11, 2017 - 07:09am PT
Trump is such a great leader, I mean damn, firing 46 AGs at once, brilliant. We need to have more billionaires running the country. Thanks a lot Obama.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 11, 2017 - 08:34am PT
Point taken Reilly. Still, there ARE intelligent persons in positions of power who actually care for this country, or so I hope. If not we're f*#ked. I just got my daughter to renew her NZ passport; it never hurts to be prepared.

Edited to add: As much as I hate to admit it, firing the U.S. attorneys is not unusual. Clinton let 93 go at one fell swoop IIRC (I didn't, thought it was 96).

Edited to add 'Assistant' per drF's correct observation below. But drF, you know what was meant; yer picking nits.

Further edited: U.S. attorneys were fired, not Assistant Attorneys General as I wrote. Also, Clinton fired 93, not 96 U.S. attorneys, corrected also. Sorry.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 11, 2017 - 10:25am PT
I mean damn, firing 46 AGs at once, brilliant

46 AG's??? There's only one AG Jon.

This attorney house cleaning business takes place for every new administration.

Try actually doing some reading and analysis. Clue: you are searching for FACTS

or....Carry-on with your #fakerage#
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2017 - 11:16am PT
Wino, we are much in agreement. As a former employee of the Pentagon and
would be denizen of a certain establishment in Langley, VA I am very
skeptical of those outfits. While both purport to act in our best
interests I fear they both bat far below their weight. The same can be
said of the State Dept. At all three, even if somebody is not venal
and spuriously inclined, the bureaucratic and risk-averse mindset leads to
many bad decisions. That is particularly true of State.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 11, 2017 - 12:39pm PT
Wino, you use the term 'intelligent' when referring to generals? Really?
Some of them are but a lot of them are poster chillen for the Peter Principle, too.
They're the ones that run the Pentagon and are solely concerned with
protecting their turf. They're the ones that oversee the writing of weapons
systems proposals, no matter how crankloonish, that wind up getting them a
really nice job on a corporate board when they retire. Those are very
dangerous people.

Reilly, as usual, your logic is faulty. You describe people who find themselves within a system, and figure out how to maximize their potential and rise to the top. And yet you claim they are not intelligent. I think they are very intelligent, although one might reasonably assert they may be lacking in other areas.

Colbert video hilarious, especially about the climbing wall.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 11, 2017 - 02:25pm PT
Ken, you weren't in the military. You have no idea what yer talking about.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 11, 2017 - 04:11pm PT
To make general officer in any of the services you need, among other attributes, to be a pretty good politician.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 11, 2017 - 07:25pm PT
Reilly, you are not a woman, and yet you evaluate them all the time.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 11, 2017 - 08:06pm PT
CIA , Navy , college football , mountaineer and now beauty pageant judge...? What hasn't Reilly done...?
pb

Sport climber
Sonora Ca
Mar 11, 2017 - 09:44pm PT
not even if he could get rid of you
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:26am PT
And the democratic machine wouldn't put the guy who got 45% of the electable delegates on the ticket as VP.

They probably want a do-over on that one.
WBraun

climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:28am PT
You politards couldn't lead your own asses out of a paper bag ever no matter what the party affiliation ......
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:35am PT
Serious Question: Are we seeing a renewed buildup to war in the Balkans?

I have just so much time available online and also my eyesight makes staring at the screen to read even painful after a while, so admit that I have not read much of the headlines I am seeing. But my fear is that yes, and if so, it will be WWIII


"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.' - Albert Einstein
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:49am PT
Proly shoulda spent a little less time on fantasy football and a little more time on understanding the actual policies you voted for and against.


rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 12, 2017 - 09:17am PT
I'm guessing the biggest part of Obamacare that conservatives hated most had more to do with Obama's name and not the program... Now the conservatives have to deliver with a better plan and that isn't going to happen.. But at least they can put Trumps name in front of care and brag that they repealed Obamacare.. It's symbolic like planting a flag over a conquered enemy.. Meanwhile 10 million Americans will lose coverage.. No skin off of Trumps nose because he'll just blame Paul Ryan...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 12, 2017 - 09:30am PT
1. Resist
2. Impeach
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:01am PT
1. Resist
2. Impeach

1. Crank
2. L00n
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:09am PT
So Jody, you say
....he is going soft on his Obummercare repeal....

I don't understand all this hate directed towards others. On a personal level, the repeal of the ACA will deprive my brother of expensive drugs that preserve his life, Neither he nor I can afford to pay for them. Is this really what you want, for my brother to die? Because that will be a consequence.

Edited to add: And we should talk about how well the U.S. health system, by far the most expensive in the world as a percentage of GD (17.1%), actually works. A single example with data from the CIA https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2091rank.html. Infant mortality in the United States (5.80 deaths/1000 births) is greater than Bosnia (5.60), Slovakia (5.20), Cuba (4.50), Estonia (3.80) etc. etc. etc., not even to mention England, France, Germany, Ireland, and many other countries. Yes, I know infant mortality isn't the only measure of health care but pretty much all other measures replicate the data.

And yet here we are, with republicans wanting to defund planned parenthood, get rid of Medicaid, remove health insurance for 20 million Americans.

Here are health care costs as % of GDP for the countries mentioned above from http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS:

United States 17.1%
Bosnia 9.6%
Slovakia 8.1%
Cuba 11.1%
Estonia 6.4%
Canada 10.4% (included as they are much maligned)
Germany 11.3% (as another 1st world example)

In fact, the next closest countries to the US are the Marshall Islands (17.1%), Micronesia (13.7%), then France (11.5%), Germany (11.3%), and Austria (11.2%).

Yeah, the greatest health system in the world my ass. In the 35 to 44 year old range, medical costs caused 28.9% of bankruptcy in 2013 (http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148). It's way past time the United States joined the rest of the world and instituted universal health care. I'm amazed large corporations aren't pushing for this, as it would be a huge cost saver for them.

Edited to add: And let's not even get started on drug costs ...........
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 12, 2017 - 05:15pm PT
I don't understand all this hate directed towards others. On a personal level, the repeal of the ACA will deprive my brother of expensive drugs that preserve his life, Neither he nor I can afford to pay for them. Is this really what you want, for my brother to die? Because that will be a consequence.

As an aside, give serious consideration to researching obtaining them from Canada or Mexico, assuming the President does not cut this off.

Most physicians will happily provide the needed prescriptions.

However, you can certainly investigate this at this point.

As for how you can say this, so far Repubs agree on no "replace" plan, only on "revoke".
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 05:44pm PT
@ TGT2 asks
How did he get them before the ACA?


Ever consider things might crop up? His health issues are private, so I won't expand on that answer. Point is, people will die when the ACA is repealed; here are your 'death panels' the republicans talked about as the ACA was being passed - they are them. It's way past time for the US to enter the first world.

Edited to add: Jody, the republicans insisted that Medicare not be able to negotiate drug prices, despite Medicare being the largest customer. Free enterprise my ass.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 05:56pm PT
I agree with Jody on government taking money from Americans and giving to other Americans

a good example is Social Security

started in the depth of the 1930s great depression when people were literally starving to death,
Big Government decided it "knew better" and ordered that a brand new tax on the American workers should be taken out of their paychecks, Social Security

and you know what Big Government did with that money?

they gave it away, flat out gave it to supposedly "old" people, pure Communism

Did those workers get anything back in exchange? NO, they worked and supported people
who were too lazy to work for themselves

take me for example, my wife and I chose to not have children, but a huge chunk of the thousands of dollars a year we pay in city, county, state property taxes goes to pay for the
"schools" of those irresponsible other people's children, NOT FAIR TO ME

so, I'm with you, bro - by the way I also did not ask to pay into another big government program, Medicare, health insurance for those over 65, no one should have to pay for other people's healthcare because they made the choice to not save and spent frivolously instead of putting money away to pay for their own healthcare when they got older

there is just SO many, many ways that I am victimized by government I could write a book
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 06:22pm PT
Norton, do I detect a tiny bit of sarcasm? The role of government, IMHO, is to improve the lives of its citizens. Jody, we are not all islands in an ocean, each independent, we are inter-related and interdependent and can help each other. The weird Randian distopian survival of the fittest BS floating around America today is disturbing, to say the least.

Edited to add 'Randian'
Norton

Social climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 06:26pm PT
Did someone say they wanted to know about the Republican's healthcare plan?

here is a nice little summary for those too lazy to read the entire plan

http://files.kff.org/attachment/Proposals-to-Replace-the-Affordable-Care-Act-Summary-of-the-American-Health-Care-Act
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 12, 2017 - 06:27pm PT
Winemaker...I didn't detect any sarcasm...I'll try and read Nortons post again.. rj
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 07:35pm PT
Well rj, there is either sarcasm or Norton is a dick. I chose sarcasm.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 07:40pm PT
Like TGT, I long for the America of the Old Days when Father Knows Best was on TV

when men were men and women appreciated it

when blacks knew their place and kept their mouths shut about "civil rights" crap talk

yep, us old, white, male racists gotta stick together

cause our America is under attack and things are changing too damn fast for their own good

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 12, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
^^^
Hey it's Jody.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 12, 2017 - 07:46pm PT
Father knows best...LMAO...
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 12, 2017 - 07:52pm PT
At this point nobody has a clue as to what the replacement for the ACA will look like.

Including the Regressive pseudo-Christian liars in DC. and tgtea.

Moof

Big Wall climber
Orygun
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:11pm PT
The fact is we will swing back to covering folks. It is inevitable.

Why?

Moral outrage will return. We live in the richest nation in the world. So if we nuked medicad, medicare and SSA and phased it in starting with those turning 18 this year it would only last 50 years. Once enough folks died in the gutter due to first losing the ability to hold a job, then being unable to afford medicine or food. Many families would end up with sick grandpa/grandma showing up at their doorstep after the repo man took their house, dragging down even responsible households.

Dead old people in the gutter is a massive waste. Many people will contract illnesses that will exceed their lifetime earning potential. Leaving these people to suffer and die in gutters of lavishly rich country to teach them a lesson, or whatever moral argument the conservatards are claiming won't fly. Safety nets will be demanded, and rightly so.

Since pensions were gutted in the wake of union busting we have seen the stagnant wages, bad job security, and shitty financial education result in horrifyingly low retirement savings. I got laughed at for arguing 10% saving rate was inadequate and the target should be 20-30% (I am saving 40%). Even with a great nest egg you need good insurance or one major illness can wipe you out. It is impractical apfor everyone to save millions just in case, especially young folks who have low wages, high costs, and very few years to save. Should we just turn our backs on everyone with bad luck because they didn't get cushy medical coverage and pension from being a LEO pig?
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
I just happily paid my state and federal taxes and have ZERO problems with some of it being used to help those in need...

But then I'm not a...

"FAKE Christian"...

Just a simple, AGNOSTIC, LIBTARD, that CARES...

Locker...yur a bigoted azzhole. You got a BIG problem with people who practice 'certain' religions. Your statements have been consistent. You are one of the (tiny)leaders of the STopo Hate Group.

A weak-assed loon group no doubt

Perhaps you should leave the desert and glue behind to 'find' life?...before its too late

drF
Norton

Social climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
At this point nobody has a clue as to what the replacement for the ACA will look like.

wrong

at this point we have a very, very good idea

READ THIS

http://files.kff.org/attachment/Proposals-to-Replace-the-Affordable-Care-Act-Summary-of-the-American-Health-Care-Act
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
LOL! And they had the same chance at the same job. It is all "bad luck" huh? Never bad CHOICES?

Jody, while it is true that some people are just f*#kups, and some make bad choices, many are trying hard and failing.

Put it this way: suppose you had a child who, whether because of genetics, or accident, or disease wound up retarded. If that child can't get the same job as my kid, who didn't suffer that same disease, needs help what do you think should be done? Boot him to the curb and let him die?

Not everyone is as bright as you. Not everyone was born into a caring family like you were. Not everyone reached adulthood free of disease and accident as you did.

Maybe we should just elect you the Determinator, and send you around to shoot everyone who isn't as rich as you are?

Or maybe you should go back to the bible and think this whole thing through one more time.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 12, 2017 - 08:46pm PT
Jody, do you really believe the myth that if everyone tried hard they would get a great job with benefits and live a long and prosperous life? Do you ever think about and appreciate how much of your wonderful life was carried on the backs of people earning little money with no benefits.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 09:08pm PT
Hey Jody, how about responding to the question I asked of you in an earlier post:


I don't understand all this hate directed towards others. On a personal level, the repeal of the ACA will deprive my brother of expensive drugs that preserve his life, Neither he nor I can afford to pay for them. Is this really what you want, for my brother to die? Because that will be a consequence.

Edited for English.
WBraun

climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 09:58pm PT
Jody -- "You guys are so full of jealous rage that if it wasn't so sad it would be funny."

They're not jealous, they're just stoopid idiots period ......
John M

climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:03pm PT
You guys are so full of jealous rage that if it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

Nobody is jealous of your pension. They are just trying to get you to see some things.

They refuse to understand your point of view concerning God. Yet you refuse to see their point of view. Do you deny evil exists, and might/probably/definitely have corrupted the possibility of the "american dream" for many people?

.....

You had a government job and represented the trust of the people to regulate law, yet you don't trust the government to help secure people from financial disasters and health disasters. ( so does that then mean that you weren't trustworthy since government can't be trusted? )

Many people here don't trust the police/government representatives of law enforcement, yet trust the government to help create a system to unsure people against financial ignorance and disaster.

What a funny juxtaposition.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:12pm PT
Jody, really? I sure don't see a response. Please answer my question. It's pretty simple. You want my brother and many others to dies because you don't like the ACA? Because Freedom? How do you suggest we handle this? Did you read my post about the efficiency of American medical care? The cost as percentage of GDP? Lots of silence here.
I don't understand all this hate directed towards others. On a personal level, the repeal of the ACA will deprive my brother of expensive drugs that preserve his life, Neither he nor I can afford to pay for them. Is this really what you want, for my brother to die? Because that will be a consequence.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:20pm PT
Jody, if he can't afford to purchase the drugs he needs, how will he obtain them? Magic? God? Get real. Tell me how this will work or shut the f*#k up.
John M

climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:22pm PT
I fully understand why evil exists. Angels rebelled and humans followed. My point was simply that because we live together, sometimes we have to deal with others evil. You had a positive benefit, i.e. you had a job and a pension because of peoples evil, yet did you never deal with a victim of evil? Do you believe that they fully deserved that evil to happen to them? If not, then perhaps you can understand that though people as a whole have made poor choices, they don't all deserve the evil that is done by those with massive power who have corrupted our economy and the economic possibilities for everyone. Yet because we all live on the same planet, we must deal with it.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:24pm PT
Jody, you come to my door, to my house in the desert. Your horse has died, you've walked for 10 miles in the burning sun and need water. I slam the door in your face. What happens? God rescues you? An alien spacecraft drops water to you? It rains? What? I deny you and you die.
John M

climber
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:27pm PT
Ease up winemaker, your prejudice is making it difficult for you to understand, and won't allow for communication. Jody doesn't want your brother to die, he just doesn't believe that he will. Ie.. he probably believes that the government will do something. What? who knows.. but some form of help with exist? Will your brother have to jump through a ton of hoops? Most likely.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:41pm PT
John M. No, not prejudice, simply fact. Jody is anxious for the ACA to be repealed because 'freedom' and hasn't given any details as to replacement. If he would explain how repealing health insurance for 20 million people will help the country, except for 'freedom', I would listen to him and discuss things. The only thing I hear is assurances that it will all be okay, but no details. The devil is in the details. In previous posts I commented on the 'efficiency' of the health care 'free market' in the US. Jody has not responded to any of my comments. More than 17% of the GDP in America is spent on health care, versus about 11% in the rest of the 1st world, with no better outcomes as far as quality of life. Is there a problem here? Is the 'market' not responding? Yes, there is a problem. We are wasting wealth and lives. It's time for national health insurance.
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Mar 12, 2017 - 10:46pm PT
what does Jody think about the hundred plus billion dollars of tax credits that will go to millionaires with ACA repeal? yep, you've got it: the trickle down will actually take care of my mother's healthcare when "pre-existing condition" cuts her coverage. and same-same winemaker, the ducats just a-trickling down will furnish pharmaceuticals to keep your brother with us.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 12, 2017 - 11:05pm PT
At this point nobody has a clue as to what the replacement for the ACA will look like.


I'm glad that you agree that Trump, when He PROMISED a BETTER, CHEAPER, plan that would COVER EVERYBODY in his campaign, he had NO plan, and NO clue as to what plan he might contrive, and that the GOP has NO CLUE what they are proposing, although they revealed it to the public a week ago.

You wonder what those two commmittees of the House approved, if they had NO CLUE as to what they were approving???? Why didn't they hold hearings, and make amendments???
.



If the ACA isn't replaced millions will follow in the footsteps of multitudes of counties now that have only one or ZERO healthcare providers.


Or perhaps the insurance companies, in collusion all the way through in this process with the GOP, is now exerting their muscle to make it appear this way, to force the change that maximally benefits THEM. Good to understand that the GOP stands with THEM, not with the average citizen, who they conned to think into thinking they did.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 12, 2017 - 11:18pm PT
LOL! And they had the same chance at the same job. It is all "bad luck" huh? Never bad CHOICES?

Yep, like you had the same chance at Ed Hartouni or my jobs. HA!

You brag about your pension and benefits, which sounds suspiciously like a UNION benefit.

But now, your side has successfully worked to shut unions down nationally---and continue to do so. So you've removed that "same chance", even for average intelligence guys like you.

People don't have the same chance, when they don't have access to quality education---and you guys want to abolish the dept of education, and gut public education. NOT A PROBLEM for the rich who use private education!

So much for your "choice"
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 12, 2017 - 11:25pm PT
After Pledging to Donate Salary, Trump Declines to Release Proof

President Donald Trump pledged to forgo a presidential salary, but as his second payday approaches, the White House is declining to say if the president has donated any of his earnings yet.

During the campaign, Trump promised he would take "no salary" if elected — a pledge he reiterated after he won.

"I'm not going to the take the salary," he said on CBS' "60 Minutes" in November.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 12:23am PT
The House Republicans’ proposed American Health Care Act would break with the government’s half-century compact with states in helping to finance Medicaid, which covers 68 million low-income people, including children, pregnant women and those who are elderly or disabled.

So what does the financing of Medicaid have to do with Obamacare?

Nothing.

The GOP is taking advantage of the camouflage of the ACA "repeal" to try to damage other programs that help poor people.

How courageous.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 13, 2017 - 06:47am PT
Trump is a pathological liar...So what else is new..?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:39am PT
Yes Jody, I have read your reply and it's pretty much an evasion:
Yes winemaker, I did up thread. And asking if I want your brother to die is stupid. I also refuse to believe if ACA was repealed/replaced that it would cause your brother to die.

I'm sure you don't want my brother or others to die. I'm also sure you haven't answered my question about how that will not happen, except that you 'believe' it won't. That makes me feel so much better. Now explain with some detail how this will not happen. You can't cause you're using that old magical thinking.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:56am PT
This thread is another example of the hysteria run amok on the left. Good grief we are all going to die if ACA is repealed.

Well, tens of thousands anyway, and millions of others will return to years of financial stress and poor treatment for lack of insurance.


Yaaaay for glib conservatism.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:15am PT
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/west-virginia-tug-river-obamacare/

Ignorance is bliss, correct Jody?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:20am PT
There is no hysteria. There is a strong and growing resistance to a lying, chaotic, amateurish administration.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:22am PT
lol...go ahead, underestimate us.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:28am PT
Huh. I'm not paranoid. Try again.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:34am PT
Like I said....go ahead and underestimate us.

Btw, what I said earlier about the effects of ACA repeal are basically true. Go ahead and call it hysteria: you either have your head up your a*# or don't care. Either way, see you in 2018.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:46am PT
Hey Jody, etal, here's something to help you understand:
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Barbarian

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:58am PT
3. hysteria (n.)
neurotic disorder characterized by violent emotional outbreaks and disturbances of sensory and motor functions

Reminds me of a recent Trump press conference...
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 09:04am PT

Occupied Territory

Mar 13, 2017 - 08:35am PT
2018? You think the Dems are taking Congress?


Less than 50% chance either house flips but very possible, especially if trump keeps being trump and dem enthusiasm holds. Midterms are usually kind to parties out of office anyway.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2017 - 09:15am PT
How do the Repubs figure they'll be returned if they gut Obamacare? Isn't that called:
'Cutting off yer nose to spite yer face?'
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 09:24am PT

Fixed it for ya. You man those same insurance companies that colluded with the Obama administration?

Medicare expansion is part of the ACA so that needs fixing too.

You mean the insurance companies that undercut the Obama Administration, but seems to be coming out on top, again?

But I guess your happy as long as their executives reap millions and millions more (while their companies drop out of Obamacare because of "losses") How sad for them....
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 09:26am PT
@locker, interesting how a glue-sniffing, hippie lettuce smoking atheist/agnostic is an expert on Christianity.

I can imagine your contempt for him, if he were a carpenter......

It's easy to see which side you'd have been on 2,000 years ago.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 09:29am PT
Winemaker, YOU made the assertion that he WILL die if ACA is repealed. It is up to you to prove that he will, not up to me to prove that he won't.

I think he has reasonably done so. He has a severe medical condition, he requires extremely expensive medication to control the condition (which is never used to treat trivial conditions). You want to take it away. The outcome is predictable.

You want to take his medication away. Seems like murder to me, but what would Jesus have done?
John M

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 09:32am PT
1. paranoia (n.)
a psychological disorder characterized by delusions of persecution or grandeur

Well,I'd say they fit that definition too.

Jody.. the bible talks about taking the beam out of ones eye before attempting to take the spec out of another eye. The right wants a bigger military because spending more then the next 8 largest militaries combined is not big enough. That sounds like paranoia to me. It also sounds like paranoia when the right talks about gun rights and that the left wants to take ALL their guns away.

What is really happening is that both sides over generalize and the divide in this country is becoming bigger because people just don't care for each other anymore.

The bible has one other thing to say about that kind of divide. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall find peace.

And Jody.. you complain about people attacking you. You proclaim your innocences. Yet you are not innocent. You continually deride people who disagree with you and make fun of them.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 09:33am PT
KenM, I didn't want your job or Ed's...and you don't hear me griping about the pay and benefits you get. You got there because of your dedication and hard work and because it is what you wanted...not because you sat on your asses waiting for the government to give it to you and then complaining when someone else got it instead of you.

Sorry Jody, you were asserting CHOICE. You act as though you had the choice to become a nuclear physicist, or medical school professor. Prove it.
Your grades in physical chemistry would go a long ways. Your master's degree in any science would support you.

But I don't think you had those choices. I didn't have the choice to become a professional musician, because I was not born with the talent. That was not a choice.

Just like many people don't have the infinite choices you state they do.

(Although I think there is evidence that ANYONE can become President of the US.)
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 10:09am PT

Mar 12, 2017 - 04:52pm PT
Right now there are more slaves than needed.


Yes, all the "slaves" paying exorbitant taxes to pay for entitlements for those that don't pay taxes.

Anyone who purchases things pays sales tax on the majority of those items - it's not like poor people are exempt from that. There are excise taxes as well, and not just on vice items like booze and cigarettes. There is also bottle deposits, which are a form of tax. Rents include a portion of payment included that the landlord uses to pay real estate taxes(or did you think they were paying that out of their own kindness? They get a tax break on that, as you well know). For gods sake - even people in prison who work for sub-minimum wages are labor at the benefit of "owners."

What constitutes an "exorbitant" amount, anyway? People who have wealth have access to tax deductions that can reduce their tax payments to a level lower than that of a person from the average "working poor" group.

Really - if you don't like your taxes, blame the damned legislators who are putting them in place, and not the people who receive what amounts to a few dollars from your end of year tax payment. I am so sick of this BS "they take MY money" bullsh#t.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 10:14am PT
What the Libtards fail to understand is that the "poor" suffer from a moral failure

a Moral Failure of Laziness - they simply don't want to work

why should I as a taxpayer give any of my hard earned (work) money to lazy people?

example: the Tyson Chicken Processing plant employing 4500 minimum wage workers closes
in the Arkansas town and everyone is out of a job

should I as a Conservative feel sorry for them, hell no

they can simply choose to move to another town to find work, simple, easy, answer

they don't deserve any of my money because they made the decision to work for Tyson
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 10:16am PT
Even with a great nest egg you need good insurance or one major illness can wipe you out.

And if you end up getting dementia, or some other extensive care housing, as you age, that great nest egg will be gone in a few months. My friend's father is to the point it is necessary. They started talking about looking at homes - $40 per month.

IF your great nest egg doesn't have a plan to shelter it in a case where you end up in nursing care, your loved ones will get a rude awakening. Even the family house will be gone if you don't plan far enough ahead.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 10:22am PT
They started talking about looking at homes - $40 per month.

I'm sure that is a typo. $4,000/ month would be a good deal here in LA.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 10:49am PT
So, a bunch of anarchist/eco freaks damage Trumps golf course---something with which I disagree. I don't support violence.

But it opens the door to a much bigger danger. What if Russia, in a subtle way, lets him know that they can place bombs, or make bomb threats to every property he owns---impoverishing him?

They could certainly do it logistically. How much pressure would that exert on him to give-just a little-in any negotiation. It wouldn't even need to be obvious.

THAT is the danger of these conflicts of interest.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 13, 2017 - 11:26am PT
**What the Libtards fail to understand is that the "poor" suffer from a moral failure

a Moral Failure of Laziness - they simply don't want to work**

How do you know the above? I don't want hear that it is the conservative belief, which so many attribute to here; I would like to see your proof, the 'science'. If you can't provide it then I'll/we'll know it is a result of you emotions of which you project.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 12:35pm PT
Cbo's score of Trumpcare is supposed to be released in half an hour.

This oughta be good.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 13, 2017 - 12:50pm PT
Promising to repeal Obamacare is what got them into office.

By clueless rubes who are first in line to be f*#ked by the repeal.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2017 - 12:50pm PT
Yes, Jody, but if they wind up with less and more expensive health care they'll turn on him
in an Arkansas minute.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2017 - 12:59pm PT
Wow, the Dummkopf-in-Chief was only kidding, he really didn't mean his phones (or microwave oven) were tapped. What an idiot.

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 01:06pm PT
No, "what an as#@&%e."

Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 13, 2017 - 01:13pm PT
Jody, yes, the IRS thing was beyond stoopid. You might be right about the numbers.
Speaking of which, the economic numbers as far as his possible trade moves are concerned
have a strong likelihood of not panning out resulting in job losses, etc.
John M

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 01:38pm PT
They are going above and beyond normal legislative resistance and basically don't care about the health(pun intended) of the country.

you reap what you sow. The rights hissy fit under Obama was pretty crazy. Still got your guns. America still has the number one military. Obamacare isn't really all that bad. It was after all primarily a republican plan. But my goodness.. it was signed by Obama, so of course it must be evil.

See how that works Jody?

Good grief.. The right laughed about Michelle's "manly" arms. And many of them laughed right here on the taco. I'm not saying that you did. I'm just pointing out that the right threw a hissy fit under Obama.. so Hissy fits seem to be the norm.

If you want to be fair.. then you have to stop blaming everything on the left.

crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2017 - 01:39pm PT
So now we know. 24 million more Americans without health coverage eventually under Trumpcare.
Sad. Sick. That "healthcare for everyone" promise? #fuggedaboutit

Never, ever, vote for a Republican.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 01:43pm PT
Good grief.. The right laughed about Michelle's "manly" arms. And many of them laughed right here on the taco. I'm not saying that you did. I'm just pointing out that the right threw a hissy fit under Obama.. so Hissy fits seem to be the norm.

Some (maybe not here) maligned her for wearing dresses that exposed her shoulders.

Now, we have a First Lady who did nudie shots a couple of decades ago and the same crowd doesn't utter a peep.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Mar 13, 2017 - 02:02pm PT
To follow up on crankster's earlier post: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/13/us/politics/affordable-care-act-health-congressional-budget-office.htm

Let the Republican bashing of the Congressional Budget Office as a partisan institution begin! After all, it's far easier to do that than accept responsibility for your actions.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2017 - 02:39pm PT
Except guess who loves to refer to it?

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 03:42pm PT
Promising to repeal Obamacare is what got them into office.

No, it wasn't, and they remember that. They remember repeal and replace.

with something that will be "far cheaper, with better benefits, that will cover everyone".

and they'd better produce.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 03:48pm PT
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 13, 2017 - 03:49pm PT
dirtbag

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 04:05pm PT
Well, he's full of sh#t.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 13, 2017 - 05:55pm PT
You brag about your pension and benefits, which sounds suspiciously like a UNION benefit.

But now, your side has successfully worked to shut unions down nationally---and continue to do so.

We'll see what Jody says once the conservatives gut his pension.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 13, 2017 - 06:40pm PT
My original question still remains unanswered: What's with the mean spirited 'I got mine so f*#k off' republican attitude? Do these people like to cause fear, uncertainty, and doubt? Do they like to punish people? Is there weird some pleasure in it for them? I really don't understand it.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:09pm PT
24 million free loaders to lose free health insurance with the Ryan plan according to the more often very wrong than right CBO. I wonder if they're accounting for the millions of middle class in the individual market (mainly self employed and contract workers) that were being priced out of the market by Obama Care? For instance, my new premium last fall under Obama Care was set to go up from $1310 to $3260 a month and that was with a 10k deductible apeice for me and the wife. Not affordable, what with 60k out of pocket before any coverage. Might as well self insure. As Bill Clinton said " it's a crazy system".


crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:11pm PT
Sad. Sick.^^^

There goes your savings to send him for the Wall. The one that Mexico was paying for.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:12pm PT
Might as well self insure.

Or move to any other first-world country. You know, places where humans matter more than corporations.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:17pm PT
Ah Ghost, you funny Canadian you!!!
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:21pm PT
^^^^^ Nah, my family has been here since 1632 through good times and bad. The current system will straighten out eventually and America will be great again when all the sick little liberal/commies die out. My generation is probably among the worst as compared to the parents raised in the crucible of the great depression and honed to a fine edge by WW2.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:37pm PT
Obamacare has taken us one huge step towards single payer. There will be setbacks but it's inevitable at this point.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 07:52pm PT
Dick Winter

SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:06pm PT
24 million free loaders to lose free health insurance

Duh! All they have to do is walk into an ER and they will get service....typically when they are a lot sicker, hence more expensive....and where do those costs get passed on to? You and I.
Penny wise pound foolish.
Get over it.


Susan
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:13pm PT
The answer is obvious, hire the 24 million as border guards and give them the same benefits as Jody gets.



Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:36pm PT
'I got mine so f*#k off' republican attitude? Do these people like to cause fear, uncertainty, and doubt? Do they like to punish people? Is there weird some pleasure in it for them?

You have it exactly.

They like to cause fear uncertainty and doubt, because that unbalances those who might push back, and makes it harder to organize and act.

They like to punish people, because in their world view, someone is to blame for everything, and they should be punished to atone for their blame (which is without end).

Look at the satisfaction embodies in the post about "24 million freeloaders", and it's clear, smashing those of a lesser God is pure pleasure for them.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:42pm PT
The list of "lies" Trump supposedly told about his plan. Well we don't have his plan yet so no evidence at the moment,

Jody, it strikes me that the illiterate will be among the first to go. You should be worried. Pensions and benefits are among the most coveted things by corporations and leaders---they want to tap into them, or eliminate them. This is the guys you support. You are their target.

You say that "we" don't have his plan, but it has passed two committees in the House, and been supplied to the CBO, and was released to the public.

The fact that you are too lazy to bother reading it, and therefore it doesn't exist reminds me of an ostrich!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:43pm PT
Ken, you're a doctor right? Give them your services for free.

I do.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:43pm PT
It gets even better. The White House is pushing back against the CBO estimates, but ...... their own analysis shows:
The White House's own internal analysis of the GOP plan to repeal and replace Obamacare show even steeper coverage losses than the projections by the Congressional Budget Office, according to a document viewed by POLITICO on Monday.

The executive branch analysis forecast that 26 million people would lose coverage over the next decade, versus the 24 million CBO estimate — a finding that undermines White House efforts to discredit the forecasts from the nonpartisan CBO.
What a bunch of lying dicks.

Edited to add: Jody, no one here is jealous of you, sucking off the public teat as you do. Seriously dude, don't you see any sort of disharmony, maybe some sort of dissonance, with what you say and what you are?

And more edit: Jody, what's with the constant references to money? Is that all it is for you? Is that all people are to you, representations of money? As Mr. Trump would say, 'Sad'.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:45pm PT
I Know these types well. I have worked side by side with them for 30 years.

The attitude is, as long as they put an honest snow man (8 hrs.) on their time sheet five days a week they can afford their toys and mega cable package. WRONG!

It's always taken more than that to get ahead.

Stop blaming the government and dark people for Christ sakes.

Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:53pm PT
Man Jody. Just wow.

Edited to add: You're one cold blooded mother f*#ker.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:54pm PT
The attitude is, as long as they put an honest snow man (8 hrs.)

Actually, I've seen a lot of sandbagging of the 8 hours.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 08:54pm PT
DMT, thanks for the gracious comment.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 13, 2017 - 09:05pm PT
Thanks, MH. I'll never forget meeting your friend over the campfire while I was out doing a trailwork project a couple years back.
WBraun

climber
Mar 13, 2017 - 10:13pm PT
Winemaker reads people wrong all the time.

Most likely because he's drunk on wine .....
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 13, 2017 - 10:23pm PT
Jody, the public revenue/service system works a bit like insurance.

Fair or unfair, the profitability of a healthy policy holder compensates for the liability of the unhealthy.

Much like a small private business owner like myself with employees​ and government fees, helps to cover the deficient amount of revenue you and other City, State and Federal employees have put back into the system to cover all the services you will receive over your lifetime.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 13, 2017 - 10:47pm PT
Jim... Trump was elected by conservatives. Conservative voter with sense...? certainly..
Degaine

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 05:27am PT
Jody wrote:
Well, what do you know? A liberal putting THEIR money where THEIR mouth is rather than always putting MY money where THEIR mouth is.

Look at which states pay the most federal tax dollars and receive the least amount of federal money back. The liberal states are putting their money where their mouths are.
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 07:57am PT
Small sample, but you ought to hear what Navy SEALS say about their work and benefits as compared to CHP so-called officers.

whine on



Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 14, 2017 - 07:58am PT
No, it just means they are too stupid to realize they are being stolen from and screwed.

Quite unclear on the concept eh?! Would you please explain how you know they do not realize the screw and what they can do about it.

I am talking about individuals here.

You can't plot/understand simple line graphs yet you can judge individuals and you know this?

dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:01am PT
Can we finally, once and for all, after seven years, bury the lie that repbuclians could produce a decent health care plan other than the ACA?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:02am PT
Jody, of all your shots that might be my favorite.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:19am PT
Why do you always feel the government is the only and best option for deciding how to help people?


Because you pseudo-Christian Regressives have made it embarrassingly clear that you aren't going to do anything, Especially if it involves YOUR money.

Jesus Wept.

dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:21am PT
Love the light--especially the first one. Print that sucker and put it on your wall!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:53am PT
Yep, I see it! That light is something else...
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:24am PT
He's talking about giving through religious organizations, thereby getting a tax break for helping out.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:48am PT
So Donald has decided to lie about his promise not to accept his salary.

Now, subject and always likely to change, he says he will take his salary and then give it away to a charity (his own foundation?) at the end the year

figure it out, he makes $400,000 as President and then get a $160,000 tax deduction by giving it to charity

thereby depriving the US Treasury of $560,000

always looking for an angle to benefit himself, he finds another one

tell us again why you voted for him
Norton

Social climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:58am PT
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:59am PT
he has a really good answer, the best answer. you never heard such a great answer...

Oh, I have a pretty good idea...

Here's a question re: options

you can google the reply...

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ ...

Matthew 25:35-40 ESV



WBraun

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 10:13am PT
All the rabid politard nutcases have returned ....
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 14, 2017 - 10:20am PT
we never left, did we werner...???


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 14, 2017 - 10:30am PT
Always good to see NewWorldOligarch.






nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 14, 2017 - 10:30am PT
weird..i edited one word on my post and half the text got deleted..sorry for the repost.
.....
Locker, Charity in the bible talks about giving to the poor ...but.. the word also means Love...

It baffles me how some people.. who call themselves Christians.. represent Christ ..

John 13:35
"By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.

"1 John 4:20....<
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.

Philippians 2: 3-4
In whatever you do, don't let selfishness or pride be your guide. Be humble, and honor others more than yourselves.

Corinthians 13, 4-7
Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
nita

Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
Mar 14, 2017 - 10:44am PT
*
*
*
Hi nita! How did that pant suit party work out for you?

We still had a party!...

New world order 2.....
BTW, I don't hide behind my words or hide who i am....Who are you?....Be A Man... stand behind what you say ..and show us who you are.
*
*
*
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 14, 2017 - 10:48am PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 14, 2017 - 11:29am PT
Jody, thanks for the personal comment.

Why do you always feel the government is the only and best option for deciding how to help people?

You have to take note that there is a tendency on this forum to talk about BIG problems. Take Oroville, for example. I seriously doubt that ANY or ALL of the churches in the region could have organized and acted to save the dam, or repair it.

Then also, things change. Our Constitution clearly seems to state that the solution to National Defense, is to have militias with access to plenty of muskets. Surely you would not (nor would any strict constructionist) subscribe to that approach TODAY---or rely on private charity to protect our country?

So your overbroad question actually answers itself.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 14, 2017 - 11:33am PT
the best/only option for charity."..

It's easy to forget that the need for charity frequently represents a failure of our society.

While "sticking the finger in the dike" of helping the immediate problem charitably is appropriate, fixing the failure that produced it, is also appropriate.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 14, 2017 - 11:37am PT
He's talking about giving through religious organizations, thereby getting a tax break for helping out.

Beautiful job, Brandon, of pointing out that behind that local charity, is the big hand of Gov't.

Perhaps Jody advocates for removing all tax exemptions for religious organizations, and taking the big foot of gov't off the neck of American Taxpayers?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 14, 2017 - 11:45am PT
Liberal bitches need to learn their place in the new order dammit!

[Click to View YouTube Video]
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 14, 2017 - 12:12pm PT
Cosmic should ask his church to pay for his back operation.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 14, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
Hey Jody, how much charitable giving are you willing to throw down for Jeff Lowe?
The death of the ACA will not be a good result for him.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 14, 2017 - 02:25pm PT
Jody, I was a little harsh in a post last night. Sorry, ad hominem attacks are uncalled for both by me and by you.

Jody says
I don't think you would admit to the truth if it smacked you in the face!
Kettle, meet pot.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 14, 2017 - 02:34pm PT
Meanwhile, the AHCA is DOA. Too many moderate Repubs pulling out. Back to the drawing boards.
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 02:37pm PT
Kettle, meet pot

bingo.. Sorry Jody, but you are obstinate and not in a good way. I deleted my post to you last night, but want to repost that republicans want to spend everyone's money on the biggest military in history. So democrats are not the only ones who want to spend "your" money.

And please don't misrepresent my post to mean that I do not support any military. I just feel that spending more then the next 8 largest militaries in the world is too much. And yes, I do believe that if a country is to be Godly, then it needs to have programs that help the poor and help keep people out of the poor house. That does not mean that I wish our country would pay for everything.

You complain constantly that people misrepresent your beliefs. I see that some do. I would ask you to not misrepresent mine. I have voted liberal on many things, so in that sense I am a liberal, and I have donated a lot of my time and money for charitable things. So I find it repugnant when you make mischaracterizations about me. A liberal who gives.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 14, 2017 - 02:53pm PT
Jody appears to be acting as though he is intellectually/morally cornered on this subject. To his credit, I do not know how you could reach a 'freedom' of soul intellectually or morally if you defend the plan.

John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 04:03pm PT
no.. you do not get it.


by your logic then we should also do away with the police because everyone can protect themselves. Why are you so obtuse and obstinate in your beliefs? Do you not understand a middle ground?
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 04:07pm PT
plenty of messages. You just don't understand and then obstinately pretend that you do.

you believe what you want to believe about liberals no matter what evidence people show you. That says a lot about you.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 04:31pm PT
Let them die.
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 04:42pm PT
So...

they give to their churches. They count that as charitable though much of the money goes to support the church and doesn't actually help the poor. If you believe in that, thats fine, but it doesn't mean that conservatives are better. You have preconceived beliefs that are false yet are deeply rooted. Its hard to get you to understand.

Many non believers believe lots of false things about people who believe in God. They see some church do something and they believe that all believers do that. I'm certain that you have experienced that many times. You do the same thing to liberals.

Why would liberals have a social conscience?



That's the government's job.

Its this kind of ugliness that I'm talking about.
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 05:12pm PT
my church raised 100 thousand dollars to help pay for a friends health care after an accident. They also feed and clothe the poor and help in other ways.
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 05:17pm PT
I just gave one example. there are many others. Please do not misunderstand me, I believe in a national health care program, i.e. single payer insurance for everyone.
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 05:21pm PT
I have no idea what you just said Jim. If you mean that lots of that 20 percent goes to things other then helping the poor, then I am with you. That is the point that I am trying to make with Jody.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
Rachel Maddow just tweeted that...

She has Trump's tax returns, and wrote "(Seriously)".
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 14, 2017 - 05:52pm PT
'05 returns...
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:07pm PT
The Democrats however HAVE an answer...

"Single Payer"...

No....their answer was the ACA. Problem is...it's not affordable. It's a joke.

You politards are frothing again about something that hasn't even happened. All you have are repetitious insults to anyone outside your circle-jerk who doesn't agree with your deluded version of reality.

Put down the glue bucket
dirtbag

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:08pm PT
Bummer crankster, but they are better than nothing.
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:14pm PT
Oh good grief Jody.. you are a tiresome human being. I was trying to explain that much of tithing does not actually go towards "charitable goods". But again, you chose to hear something else.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:17pm PT
Durtloon and Crankloon don't even care what's "actually" in the tax returns.

They just care that a fellow whack job like Maddow has more disinformation to feed their frothing tiny brains.

No facts needed....we'll take it from here
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:21pm PT
I'd just love to join this circle jerk, but my hand is all callused. From climbing!
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:22pm PT
TGT2...I'm busting a gut, keep it up, ROFLMAO.

There's still a First Amendment, right?
Mailed to a reporter...probably by Trump.
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:22pm PT
And I am supposed to be able to reason with idiocy like that?

Unbelievable.

no.. you aren't supposed to be able to reason with idiocy. You are suppose to not respond in kind. You post hateful things. You are not excused simply because they posted hateful things.

Edit:

By the way.. this is idiocy..

So the consensus is that nobody can help themselves, nobody can help others, therefore the government MUST take from people so THEY can help others as they know best. There is no other way.

Got it.

So thank you for reminding me that I can not reason with you as you have twisted every single thing that I have said today.
WBraun

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:47pm PT
You fools poisoned the planet and made everyone sick and are continuing this nonsense.

There's no health care until you clowns stop poisoning the planet .....
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 14, 2017 - 06:49pm PT
Which planet...?
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 14, 2017 - 07:23pm PT
Not his planet.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 14, 2017 - 07:40pm PT
Brennan ...Wrong...!!! Jody preferred mace to grace...
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 14, 2017 - 07:40pm PT
Single payer is the goal and it's where we LIBTARDS continue to aim...
I'm all in on single payer. I'm happy to pay a little more in taxes so everyone gets help. Many people, Dem's and Rep's want this. CFry...this is fact. Stop hating... l0l

Obamacare was/(is) only the start...
It's nothing but a dead-end. Obama legacy B.S. The uber-rich in the Dem party weren't able to cut the lobbyist money cord and punted = ACA. You love Pelosi/Reid no?

If the foolish ReSNUBlicans would open their fuked up eyes and get on board we could actually see to it that ALL Americans were in fact COVERED...
I don't disagree. But, they have a 'chance' to fix it. I hope they do. I'm doubtful. Puntfest. #congre$$# = sh$$t
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 14, 2017 - 07:42pm PT
Ain't going to happen...ever. This is a sinful and imperfect world. There will always be misery and suffering somewhere.

But, since you've got yourself a good life, you can safely say: "F*#k them."

That's what Jesus would have said, right?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 07:47pm PT


drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 14, 2017 - 07:49pm PT
^^^^^^
Winning
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:03pm PT
^that's all you have to say?

Whatssamatta your arm tired. Too bad you're not ambidextrous.

Oh Canadumm!
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:04pm PT
No matter what I say, your side always comes back to the government as the only option.

Jody, I'm not on any "side". I'm not a liberal or a conservative. Or maybe I'm sometimes one and sometimes the other. For that matter, I'm not even American. Which, maybe, gives me a perspective on this that you lack.

As far as I can tell, you believe that government has no place in helping people in trouble. And yet, were your house to be broken into, or your daughter kidnapped, I doubt you'd have any trouble calling the police. And I don't think you want the entire US military to be disbanded because it is government funded.

So it's not a yes/no question. Government involvement in anything can be good or bad, and I don't understand why you are so adamant that any government support for those in need is "bad."

You seem to be reasonably well off, but how would you fare if you (or your wife or child) was hit with medical bills in the hundreds of thousands? If you can answer "I'd be fine", then my guess is that you've got some form of government-backed insurance.

Or, maybe not. I don't know.

What I do know is that you seem unwilling to discuss this in an open-minded manner. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but what I read in your posts is: "I got mine, so f*#k you."

Am I wrong?
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:10pm PT
So how do I communicate with you Jody since you twist every single thing that I say?

I do not and have never said that government is the "only" answer. It is part of the answer. How can we have a Godly country if our government ignores the poor? This country was founded on the belief that we had government of the people, for the people and by the people. I fully believe that God is the answer, yet I must also work with what is available. Many people in this country do not believe in God, and many of those who do believe have mixed and sometimes false beliefs about God. Do I just give up on government? You worked for government. So government must be able to supply some answers. Yes, the bible says that the poor will always be with us, so I must work not only through churches, but also through our government. If you ignore that resource, then you miss a lot of opportunity.

How you can take that to mean that I believe in "only" government. I do not know. Or how you can take that to mean that I believe that people should NOT have a level of self sufficiency, I do not know. Of course people need to develop a level of self sufficiency. To each, according to their ability. If you did away with all government help, then the churches would be overwhelmed. There is no doubt of that. Is that your answer?
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:17pm PT
You seem to be reasonably well off, but how would you fare if...

The Republicans succeed in gutting your pension?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:19pm PT
California could gut calpers like Detroit did to their employee pension..
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:23pm PT
I'm curious how our more religious brethren on Supertopo reconcile this priest's view (which largely leans on the expositions of Pope Francis) with the present vision and strategy of the Republican party:
http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/a-priestly-letter-to-speaker-paul-ryan-from-rev-dr-matthew-fox

I received the letter in an email from a friend, and just googled to find this online link to share here.

I'm not trying to be inflammatory in any way (other than fanning the fires of personal reflection), and I honestly want to understand how different and conflicting spiritual and material priorities settle for you.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:41pm PT
I'm all in on single payer. I'm happy to pay a little more in taxes so everyone gets help

As a moderate Republican that's exactly where I'm at.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:41pm PT
If I may- Love and compassion are fine and all but those emotions are piss pore motivators to agitate the base.

Hate, fear anger and jealousy really do the trick...look no further than the right wing, Christain haters here on Super Topo.

As a moderate Democrat, I'm with Jgil on single payer.

Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 08:56pm PT
I don't get this idea where people are SO upset over having their tax money go to help people in need, yet not a peep about how our tax dollars fund the extremely generous health insurance benefits of our politicians, or how our tax dollars buy massive amounts of weapons, or how our tax dollars go to offset the cost of "jobmaker" corporations who hire people at right about min. wage, give people "management" titles to avoid paying overtime, and syphon money away from the local economies they sold the project on as helping.

But OMG if ten dollars of our tax dollars per year goes to help some impoverished parent feed their children....
John M

climber
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:00pm PT
as if the government and people who held government jobs were the most evil thing on earth.

I have never done such a thing. I respect the police and the need for police. Please stop lumping everyone together simply because you feel attacked. I'm sorry that you have been attacked, but I was not one of them. Most definitely not because of your job. I have challenged you for your beliefs and your actions.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:01pm PT
Jody, you unequivocally would never have had employment, or anything to give, if there were no government. It's strange how that simple fact continually eludes you.

In your make believe world of privatized everything, there would only be Lord's and beggars.

Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:09pm PT
Another busy night of political posting & posturing.

It must seem very important,

to you.

sigh.

I would suggest your time might be well spent in posting some notes of respect to the family & friends of Royal Robbins, whose passing is noted in two ST threads today.

February 4, 1935 (West Virginia) - March 13, 2017.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2956648/Royal-Robbins-RIP

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2956629/RR-Rip

My apologies to any here, who have taken the time to post condolences for a truly iconic climber & climbing standards leader.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:34pm PT
You sure are concerned about money Jody. Seem to be the only point with you.....

To quote you
I give up, I am with Werner on his assessment of you folks.
And I do mean you.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:37pm PT
So the consensus is that nobody can help themselves, nobody can help others, therefore the government MUST take from people so THEY can help others as they know best. There is no other way.

Exactly the argument for the elimination of YOSAR
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:41pm PT
I have not seen one GOP'er respond to my repeated concern:


Changing the law so that documented, chronically, mentally unstable people are now empowered to own guns and ammunition.

How does this make us safer????
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:43pm PT
Jody, king of obfuscation.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:44pm PT
Maybe, Jody, you should look at the country as one big church; you tithe to help the poor and unfortunate and those not able to help themselves.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 14, 2017 - 09:51pm PT
as if the government and people who held government jobs were the most evil thing on earth.

I wish I had a dime for every time YOU have asserted this exact point.

What people are responding to, is your hypocrisy. "Gov't is terrible, terrible, terrible-----except when it is paying me!"
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 15, 2017 - 12:25am PT
I don't know how I got pulled into this thread...
Jody wrote:

LOL! And they had the same chance at the same job. It is all "bad luck" huh? Never bad CHOICES?

but for me, the "chance at a job" is equal parts demonstrated capability, potential and the help of others.

When I was a graduate student living in Manhattan in the 1970s we rented from Lore Segal, a partial apartment which she leased having taken one of the rooms to enlarge her apartment for her family, which included her mother and two children. She rented our apartment to students in need of a place. Because of her we found a place to live on what we made at the time, my NSF grant for graduate studies, thank you USA, and Debbie's waitressing job.

When Debbie became pregnant, her boss fired her, which was typical at the time (it being 1976). This dropped our income to just my grant, which wasn't a whole lot, I remember calculating that the $0.35 price of a NYTimes was a rather substantial part of my total annual income.

We read frequently, mostly in the Daily News about the shenanigans of a then much younger Donald Trump, a personality unchanged from his youth now 40 years ago. Nothing our president does surprises me in the least, it is totally consistent with the way he was then, and then he made it all about "The Donald."

Eventually we applied for and received Food Stamps to supplement our income, we were close enough to the poverty line to qualify. Thank you again USA for your support.

My daughter was born, more helping from the people at Columbia U. resulted in a job for Debbie administering a Saturday student program, and my daughter grew up in Pupin Hall. Other friends helped out with other jobs, I worked setting up rock and roll bands working for a friend of a friend who worked for Ron Delsener, generally paid in cash...

When I finished my degree I had the opportunity to work in research, and once again benefited from the help of many others.

Jody wrote: "I am OPPOSED TO THE GOVERNMENT TAKING FROM ME AND WASTING IT ON THE PRETENSE THAT IT IS HELPING SOMEONE TRULY IN NEED!"
well let me thank Jody for paying his taxes and likely helping someone out, who, like me and my family, needed the assistance. I don't think it is a pretense, the helping part, it is reality.

I could take the point of view, perhaps, that I am a "self made man," but the fact is, I did get a lot of help along the way from many different quarters. Because of that, I gladly pay my taxes and do believe that the USG uses that revenue to help out. My direct experience with the USG, both as someone who was once in need, and as someone who has reviewed its programs, that that support is far from wasted.

I, for one, am thankful, and I also aspire to be helpful, both in supporting the USG but also in ways that others were helpful to me. Without them I wouldn't have had the opportunities I have had. I think that used to be the spirit of being a member of a community. A community isn't just the sum of individuals, it includes how those individuals work together to the betterment of all.

Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Mar 15, 2017 - 04:25am PT
^^
Now there is a guy that gets it.
Thanks for keeping it real.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:23am PT
Gripping tale of dirt bagging it on the mean streets of Manhattan Ed.

But, back in the seventies it wasn't as fashionable for the USG to print money out of thin air. That USG assistance you're so thankful for came from millions of faceless tax payers.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:57am PT
you two will be sucking the Trump tit for the rest of your lives. whether he's in the WH or Leavenworth


dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:14am PT
Buncha babies whining about their taxes.

I'm pretty sure I pay more than most people here.

I'm glad to do it.

Btw, food stamps and similar programs are a small part of the federal budget.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:14am PT
Jody wrote: "I am OPPOSED TO THE GOVERNMENT TAKING FROM ME AND WASTING IT ON THE PRETENSE THAT IT IS HELPING SOMEONE TRULY IN NEED!"

Oh, but if the truly in need are white, I'm sure that Langford is fine with it.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:21am PT
Ah, I finally got it, that nagging mental itch! Jody reminds me of our long lost buddy Klimmer.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:28am PT
it;s okay I know you are clueless as f*#k..

Whoever oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.

— Proverbs 14:31
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:12am PT
No, no, no Jody. The problem is you want to deny medical care to poor people.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:21am PT
Winemaker, no, not true. The poor can get medical care any time they want to.

actually, no

the "poor" can get immediate life saving service at the nation's Emergency Rooms

and is only because a man's man, a REAL Conservative Republican, Ronald Reagan

signed a law back in 1986 that all Americans regardless of status or income have a human
right to life saving health care

so why do you vote Republican then? Aren't you ashamed to be associated with Reagan?

a pure and true Libertarian would say fuk em, let em die!

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:50am PT
That USG assistance you're so thankful for came from millions of faceless tax payers.

Not so faceless if you actually go out and meet people, rick, and I acknowledged and gave my thanks to the taxpayers. And now that I am one, I am happy to contribute to our community especially given that I benefitted in a time of need.

As a nation we are much wealthier than those times in the 1970s, it is amazing to me, so I admit I really don't understand the apparent prevalence of the notion that the economic system has been "unfair," and that the aggrieved seem to be in better economic circumstances than a very large part of humanity, and with many more opportunities.

I do not share the view that the USG is "the problem," quite the contrary, as I view our form of government as being from the people, what ever the vagaries of the process by which that happens. And I do not see the country as a ethnically defined entity, but one defined by high ideas and high ideals. One's ethnic origins are not pre-requisite to assuming those ideals, or adopting those ideas.


Any student of 20th century history must become concerned when ethnonationalists movements become popular.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:54am PT
In a way emergency room visits are not medical care. Yes, one can get immediate care, but that's not the end. I severed my quad tendon on Rainier and had surgery to repair it. If I hadn't had insurance, would an emergency room have treated me? I'm not even sure they would have. But the kicker was physical therapy, and lots of it (about 60 sessions), was what was needed to get me back in the mountains. Emergency room visits don't include that sort of thing, and that was what was necessary to make my chicken leg work again; it took two months to get my leg to bend 90°. Anyone without insurance would have been out of luck with 10 visits.

Yeah, you can go to the emergency room, but what about cancer, diabetes, hypertension, ulcers, and on and on? It's time for national health insurance, which will dramatically cut medical costs. Jody, you never responded to my post upstream about medical cost as a percent of GDP. The system is broken and it's time to fix it the right way.
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:10am PT
These conservatives don't care if people die or go bankrupt, they don't care about others that maybe suffering

That's why I said they are Not Socially conscience.
Which Jody took offense to.

If he cared, he would want Every kind of aid going to these people, be it the Government or Charity, they should be taken care of. Period.

And it isn't getting done w/out Gov. assistance, that is a fact.
Bad policies have made life and health care very expensive

But'
Just look at Paul Ryan's face, he's smug about taking away 24 million Americans health care insurance --- People will die because of HIS Plan

He doesn't care.

These people are "Conservatives Without Conscience"

Authoritarian Followers that don't use reason or intelligence
They follow a mental doctrine that has been bred into them.


Robert Altemeyer, a Canadian psychologist, has done extensive testing to isolate and describe the traits of the authoritarian personality. His results are distilled in his book "The Authoritarians." He describes religious fundamentalists, the core of the right-wing Republican base, as follows:

They are highly submissive to established authority, aggressive in the name of that authority and conventional to the point of insisting everyone should behave as their authorities decide. They are fearful and self-righteous and have a lot of hostility in them that they readily direct toward various out-groups. They are easily incited, easily led, rather un-inclined to think for themselves, largely impervious to facts and reason and rely instead on social support to maintain their beliefs. They bring strong loyalty to their in-groups, have thick-walled, highly compartmentalized minds, use a lot of double standards in their judgments, are surprisingly unprincipled at times and are often hypocrites.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/6651-the-rightwing-id-unzipped
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:21am PT
I believe our own Ken M IS a doctor so maybe he knows for sure

if the bill for Emergency Room care for those without health insurance is absorbed by the hospital that owns that emergency room or is a portion of the fee is sent to the US Government for payment

in which case all of us taxpayers are paying for the "poors'" emergency room visits

now that would really anger a true and pure Conservative, something for nothing oh my
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:22am PT
You don't care if the Government takes away their assistance, correct?

They should find the assistance somewhere else, correct?
Craig Fry

Trad climber
So Cal.
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:26am PT
Probably about 20 to 25 percent of the adult American population is so right-wing authoritarian, so scared, so self-righteous, so ill-informed and so dogmatic that nothing you can say or do will change their minds. They would march America into a dictatorship and probably feel that things had improved as a result.... And they are so submissive to their leaders that they will believe and do virtually anything they are told. They are not going to let up and they are not going away.

You can take a test to see how big an authoritarian you are.
It's based on the Fascist (F) Scale

When you take it, you have to think of the Leaders of your Party as the top, not the Obama Admin.

http://personality-testing.info/tests/RWAS/
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:29am PT
"concerned when ethnonationalist movements become popular".

No shet Ed! What with black lives matter, La Rasa etc.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:34am PT
Congratulations Mr. President: 55% disapproval, 39% approval, and you lost the popular vote.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:49am PT
Trumpcare is DOA in the Senate. The House might pass a version for show, just to placate the wingnut base.

39% approval, dirt? 538 shows 44%. Either way it's hard to comprehend how it's that high. Also hard to imagine it falling below 35% given the alt-right love affair with alternative facts and celebrity.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:55am PT
Crankster, one thing trump has been particularly good at is generating strong opposition early in his presidency.
WBraun

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:08am PT
Duh duh duh duh blah blah blah blah.

We politards must keep saying the same sh!t over and over to each other every day to enlighten the ignorant.

Unfortunately .... there are only 8 of you clowns talking each other believing you are talking to a huge large audience.

Fact!!!!

There's no one here but you 7 or 8 clowns .......
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:10am PT
Please, please pass this thing in the House. We need as many repubs signed up for this thing as possible so they can feel the heat in 2018.

Ryan is already making sure we know that Trump gave his input so he's won't take all the blame.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:17am PT
Best part....these clowns are wrong about everything they froth about

Time and time again.

-Hillary winning
-Russian scandals
-Trump not paying taxes

Now it's back to the ACA and sh#t that hasn't even happened(and won't). The ACA is a bust. It's all on the crooked Dem's that cooked it up.

The clowns would rather eat Maddow sh#t sando's than accept the #FACTS#
WBraun

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:18am PT
LOL ..... !!!!!
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:18am PT
Please, please pass this thing in the House. We need as many repubs signed up for this thing as possible so they can feel the heat in 2018.


This.

Two house committees approved this pre-cbo report. They're forever linked to it, recklessly approving it before knowing what the Cbo would say.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:22am PT
Everyone knows who the forum clown is. Babbling endlessly. 26,586 posts, about 26,500 of them the same ignorant word salad.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:22am PT
They may not be in vulnerable districts though. We need a whole lot more to own this thing. But, they want to be reelected so I don't think there will even be a vote.
Happiegrrrl2

Trad climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:33am PT
I will tell you again. YOU ASSUME I DON'T HELP THE NEEDY BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT AS A MIDDLE MAN! I WANT TO HELP THEM DIRECTLY!


Well.....if you're still climbing and could use a new chalkbag, I could use the money for gas to get back east more "directly". Yes,it's "that time of year again," where I launch myself cross-country without the funds to reach my destination.

But only, of course, if you actually want it. I do accept charity, but I prefer not to have it with negative energy attached.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:33am PT
before knowing what the Cbo would say

HaHa....wrong again!!

Knowing what the CBO would say....or how wrong the CBO would be 2yrs after the fact?? Which is it?

CBO says Pelosi sh#t sando's will make you smarter. Clearly you clowns believe this as ya'll are getting fat on them.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:36am PT
Underlined

HaHa....wrong again!!

Knowing what the CBO would say....or how wrong the CBO would be 2yrs after the fact?? Which is it?


Um...i meant what I said. It was irresponsible to approve the bill without estimates of its fiscal impacts and impacts on coverage.

What's your point?

Do you have a better analysis?

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:53am PT
Some fool republicans are saying to sit back and let ACA crash, as though that will make us come sucking for whatever sh#t alternative they have to offer.

They don't seem to understand that they now own this whole show.
chipperdarl

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 11:57am PT
who let this pud character in?

chris? i thought this demographic employed
folks whom sought challenge.

this chap, "pud" is insubstantial.

i don't know him
but his verbal spew paints
him as a middle-aged white punk
who needs petroleum to
substantiate his manhood.

dumb and weak, lazy though seeking acclaim.

here. i'll speak for him,

"i can't do shite anymore because everything that requires substance is too scary. and difficult. so i'll just sit on my real asse and pretend that i'm crushing unknown horizons. on my motorcycle. and in my big truck. f*#k off, liberals. don't you challenge my right to unearned pride."

flimsy

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 12:35pm PT
jody if you have daughters then
they are ashamed of you.

you are a weak, insubstantial human.

your passage is only a privilege.

if you had to earn your rite via
passage by me i would deflect
your train of thinking.

but your kind is everywhere.
made of nothing, yet loud.

you're an echo of my last valiant course.

shithead.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 12:57pm PT
I believe our own Ken M IS a doctor so maybe he knows for sure

if the bill for Emergency Room care for those without health insurance is absorbed by the hospital that owns that emergency room or is a portion of the fee is sent to the US Government for payment

in which case all of us taxpayers are paying for the "poors'" emergency room visits

now that would really anger a true and pure Conservative, something for nothing oh my

Generally, the hospitals eat it. From time to time, there have been gov't programs that reimburse (partially) for "unreimbursed care", but they come and go, and have not been dependable. Some might consider them to be "corporate welfare".

The patients are still on the hook for the bills, which if they have any resources at all, results in bankruptcy.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 15, 2017 - 01:06pm PT
I have not seen one GOP'er respond to my repeated concern: Changing the law so that documented, chronically, mentally unstable people are now empowered to own guns and ammunition.



I have mixed feelings about this, and although I am still registered as a Democrat I identify with moderate Republicans. Here is a part of what the ACLU had to say to congress about the Obama regulation:


"the SSA [Social Security Administration] promulgated a final rule that would require the names of all Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefit recipients – who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits – be submitted to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is used during gun purchases.

We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent. There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one's Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence... the rule automatically conflates one disability-related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm."
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 01:08pm PT
Ed H's post reminded me, when I was a poor student (I came from a lower middle class family), I worked a number of jobs putting myself through school.

One of the best was working in a Hunt's tomato cannery. Good money.
Hard work. Stacking 50# boxes above my head, sanitation using steam hoses.


But one summer, due to weather, the season closed early, and as the following school year came to a close, I found myself running low on money. I was able to get enough to cover the rent, but that was about it.

I was quite happy to discover that I qualified for Food Stamps, (at least partially), and that was enough to tide me over for a few months.

I've always remembered that, when a hand reached out and helped me. Like Ed, I gladly pay my taxes, and consider it an investment.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 15, 2017 - 01:23pm PT
Ed, that is a wonderful post. Thank you.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 01:28pm PT
"the SSA [Social Security Administration] promulgated a final rule that would require the names of all Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefit recipients – who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits – be submitted to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is used during gun purchases.

Jgill - the regulation requires the name of that person be filed as a "flag" for further consideration prior to perhaps being issued a license to buy a firearm

the regulation does not say they will be denied a license automatically

good law, because certainly SOME people Do have such significant mental instability to be diagnosed as "mentally disabled" and thus eligible for that particular SS payment
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 15, 2017 - 01:34pm PT
"But, Delana also has learned, if the Obama regulations had been in place when Weathers bought her weapon, they would not have barred her purchase because she received and managed her own Social Security disability checks"


It's the background check system that's at fault, not the Obama regulation.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 01:37pm PT
"the SSA [Social Security Administration] promulgated a final rule that would require the names of all Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income (SSI) benefit recipients – who, because of a mental impairment, use a representative payee to help manage their benefits – be submitted to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), which is used during gun purchases.

We oppose this rule because it advances and reinforces the harmful stereotype that people with mental disabilities, a vast and diverse group of citizens, are violent. There is no data to support a connection between the need for a representative payee to manage one's Social Security disability benefits and a propensity toward gun violence... the rule automatically conflates one disability-related characteristic, that is, difficulty managing money, with the inability to safely possess a firearm."

Thank you John.

I'm puzzled that you use the ACLU argument, which is merely based on concern about a stereotype.....or said another way, "political correctness".

I have never read of a situation where a mentally deficient person accomplished anything good (personal protection, stopping a robbery,etc) with a gun.

On the other hand, I see all the time, mentally deficient people attacking the police, and being killed. (they haven't had guns, so generally not with those).

I will also note that most of the Presidential Assassins of my lifetime, were mentally deficient people, who got their hands on a gun. (all before the prohibition)

One other note: In an extensive reporting job on fatal shootings by police (where there was deemed to be a risk to life), about 10% were mentally ill people.
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 15, 2017 - 01:45pm PT
IMO the background check system needs to be more rigorous, although even there an unfounded and mean-spirited accusation of domestic violence would keep an otherwise qualified buyer from a purchase. Complicated issue. (although not so for the far right and far left I guess)

That's about all I can contribute to the issue.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 15, 2017 - 02:04pm PT
"EVERYONE is going to have coverage, at a FRACTION of the cost, and it's going to be SO EASY."
Donald Trump, 2016

"NO ONE KNEW, that healthcare would be so COMPLICATED."
Donald Trump, 2017
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 15, 2017 - 02:11pm PT
Republicans, doing everything in their power to get as many guns in the wrong hands as possible. They are basically a wing of the gun lobby.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 02:50pm PT
John Boehner was right when he said his Republicans will NOT repeal the ACA.

He said Republicans simply cannot "govern", as in agree upon and pass into law legislation
that repeals the Affordable Care Act.

And the reason they will not is because congressional Republicans are too divided.

1/3 of them want virtually NO government involvement in healthcare, just let em die
so they will not vote for the Ryan plan, or really, any plan

1/3 of them are very afraid of not being re elected due to the heat they will face if they vote
to throw 25 million Americans off their present healthcare

and the other 1/3 are "moderate" Republicans, generally in favor of retaining the ACA's Medicaid expansion of some 14 million Americans getting "government" healthcare and liking
the idea of requiring insurance companies to insure those with (expensive) pre existing conditions but know that eliminating the Mandate removes precious dollars from the pools

given all that, it is looking like prior House Speaker John Boehner is going to be proven right when he said the Republicans will NOT repeal the ACA because they can't get their act together

therefore - "Obamacare" will continue to be largely intact and the law of the land
because Republicans only know how to do one thing, say no, and don't know to "govern"
jgill

Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
Mar 15, 2017 - 02:55pm PT
Here in Colorado a recent poll showed that 54% want ACA repaired while 41% prefer it be replaced. Members of the party in power running around with their pants on fire. Go with Lamar Alexander's suggestion, congress. Hopeless.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 15, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
The pill that the Republicans are having a tough time choking down is admitting that ObamaCare really was a very good crack at solving the health care conundrum this country has created by allowing private corporations to take over health care.

But the orange shitgibbon will negotiate us out of the problem.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 03:16pm PT
It is now called "TRUMPCARE"

and the Repubs will own healthcare and all its damn problems from now forward.

They promised their base for eight years they would repeal the ACA

and they are facing being thrown out of office if they don't repeal the ACA

they also face being thrown out of office if they DO repeal the ACA

because their replacement plan WILL be much worse in terms of human suffering

they are screwed, and they did this to themselves by shooting their mouths off for 8 years

fuk em, they deserve what is coming their way.....
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 15, 2017 - 03:34pm PT
In the spirit of bipartisan cooperation I forgive you and I accept your apology Jody..
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 15, 2017 - 04:23pm PT
Make America Mean Again.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 04:32pm PT
Looks like a judge has temporarily frozen Muslim ban 2.0.
c wilmot

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:12pm PT
It's odd people want to call the travel ban a "Muslim" ban when none of these nations are purely Islamic. You would not call the USA a "Christian" nation- so why use such religious labeling in countries like Syria?

It's just more hypocrisy
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:19pm PT
really?

I have never the United States referred to as anything but a "Christian Nation", speaking religiously

and while it is true that not every single individual in those six banned countries is Muslim
it IS very that the religious percentage and identify of those countries IS overwhelmingly Muslim

not hard to understand is it
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:19pm PT
Nonetheless the ban is aimed at Muslims. Read your history and review what Trump said in the campaign.

Unless ofcourse you agree that Trump never means what he says. Nor does he know what he is talking about.



TOP REPUBLICAN CONFIRMS THERE IS NO EVIDENCE TRUMP WAS WIRETAPPED



Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:21pm PT
It's odd people want to call the travel ban a "Muslim" ban

He promised a Muslim ban in no uncertain terms. Sometimes you have to take responsibility for your words. Responsibility is a new concept for the right wing.
c wilmot

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:21pm PT
No it's aimed at countries.

You don't get to redefine reality to suit whatever agenda you are pushing.

If you want to say they are Muslim nations- then you must insist the US be considered a Christian nation

Don't be hypocrites
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:24pm PT
U.S. District Judge Derrick Watson said sections of the new travel order likely amounted to a violation of the First Amendment’s establishment clause, which forbids the government from disfavoring certain religions over others.

Watson gave short shrift to the Trump administration’s argument that the new restrictions applied to a “small fraction” of the world’s 50 predominantly Muslim nations ― and thus could not be read to discriminate Muslims specifically.

“The illogic of the Government’s contentions is palpable,” Watson wrote. “The notion that one can demonstrate animus toward any group of people only by targeting all of them at once is fundamentally flawed.”
The judge also discarded the government’s defense that the text of the new executive order was silent on religion, supposedly solving constitutional defects identified by courts with the first order.

“Any reasonable, objective observer would conclude ... that the stated secular purpose of the Executive Order is, at the very least, secondary to a religious objective of temporarily suspending the entry of Muslims,” Watson wrote.

edit: for example, Syria is roughly 75% Muslim, approx the same percentage who identify as Christians in the USA
c wilmot

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:29pm PT
Any reasonable person would understand those countries have many people of various faiths. When did judges start using imagined citizens with assumed perceptions as the basis for enforcing the rule of law?

Norton- the left insist the US is NOT a Christian nation- hence the blatent hypocrisy. It's only being called a "Muslim" ban because it suits the agenda they are pushing- even though it's in direct contradiction to their long held beliefs about the US not being a Christian nation
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:43pm PT
NWO2, do you actually watch that unintelligible spewage or are you being ironic?
c wilmot

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:49pm PT
NWO- if there is a physical incarnation of god- and that's a serious if- the last thing they would look upon favorably is the US tradition of profiting off of death and chaos
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:55pm PT
Whatcha gonna do survival?

NewWorldOligarch, Unlike you, I already put my ass on the line.

What am I gonna do? I'll keep calling out fascists and xenophobes wherever I see them.



fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:03pm PT
Ironic that she didn't understand irony.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:17pm PT
nwo, do you climb?
zBrown

Ice climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:28pm PT
No it's aimed at countries.

The court does not agree.

Better try to get a job in the judiciary to push your agenda c.


The goal is to prevent terrorism in the U.S., right. This type of ban doesn't do it very well, if at all. Folks who specialize in anti-terrorism have said as much.






capseeboy

Social climber
portland, oregon
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:39pm PT
Rumps partial tax return? I smell fish. This fish is to draw attention away from Rump. He gets a great chance to attack the Fake news like a copiously sweating, flabby blue face veins bulging, bible thumping, religious zealot preaching the evils of sin. This is fake news with an ulterior motive. Draw the herds attention to Rumps blow back. Not Rump himself. Your Spin?

So far no tweets. 18:50
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:47pm PT
I'll gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today...
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:48pm PT
If you want to say they are Muslim nations- then you must insist the US be considered a Christian nation

there is NO problem stating the USA IS a Christian Nation, overwhelming Christian

why do you feel that was SO difficult to say? go ahead, say it, nothing bad will happen
Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:51pm PT

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
No! The people who are going waaaaaaay past acceptable actions and behavior to bring Trump down with no regard for the country are the REAL traitors.


I'm still waiting for an example of the popular vote loser/liar in chief's regard for the country. He's even less interested in helping Americans than you are.

SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:51pm PT
That Kellyanne Conway sure is purdy. So too is Ann Coulter.

Oh.


Susan
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 15, 2017 - 06:54pm PT
Brennan... I'm deeply ashamed.. Making an appointment for a confession with Father Mahoney...
c wilmot

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:00pm PT
Obama, June 28, 2006 (as delivered): Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation – at least, not just. We are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, and a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.

Norton-
So obama was full of it?

And I don't think we are a nation of any religion. I don't say we are because I don't believe it.

drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:10pm PT
Locker is a TRAITOR to the AMERICAN people...

and a total embarrassment...

The only thing he's making great...

is sniffing glue and being a BIGGOT...

Locker is Making America Smaller

#FACT#
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:18pm PT
Locker isn't a biggot...Maybe a midget...The Goon
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:32pm PT
^^^^^^
B.S...he hacks on Christians on a regular basis.

Selective bigotry.

Spin it anyway you want.

L0ckur....stop the hating.

Perhaps leave the glue bucket behind. Go mingle with other humans....you might learn something

Fry too. He's another selective hater. What a shi##y way to go thru life. Always hating and wrong
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 15, 2017 - 07:54pm PT
That he IS. Look at his posting history with snide remarks and slams against Christians.

Well, that's an interesting take on it. My own take, based on reading Locker's posts over many years, is that he absolutely does _not_ slam Christians.

What he slams (and correct me if I'm wrong, Locker) is people who proclaim themselves Christians, but live their lives ignoring Christ's teachings.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:01pm PT
but live their lives ignoring Christ's teachings

How would L0cker know about Christ's teachings if he's not Christian??

L0cker has the luxury(w/ zero facts) to decide who's a good Christian and a bad one.

Kinda like Hitler no?
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:04pm PT
You do not come across as a Christian Jody...

Come across?? Preconceived notions?? Hatred??

#l0cker4gas#
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:05pm PT
Locker....No higher honor than to be vetted by the Ghost...I take a majestic huff in tribute to the honorable Locker...rj
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
He is absolutely not a bigot.

That he IS. Look at his posting history with snide remarks and slams against Christians.

this response is specious and from the same mindset as
"those who claim I'm racist are being racist against white people" chestnut.


seems I'm not the only one with comprehension issues...

I will always "Hate on" FAKE Christians that claim to be of higher moral ground...

yet are in fact BIGOTS...

Keyword FAKE

You endorse Hate when you endorse Regressive policies that damage Americans and America. When you endorse Liars, Degenerates and Criminals who laugh at you as they sh#t upstream of your water sources you endorse their hateful treasonous un-christian behavior, you are their agent, you are their bitch, like it or not, You are representing the Regressive Pro $ FAKE Christians. All indications are that you like it that way.
I have never slammed anyone for Christian meaning Christ Like behavior. Dude wrote a good book, You should check it out sometime

Norton

Social climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:25pm PT
Jody has every right to not like some of his tax dollars going to maintain the Safety Net for the poor that both Democrats and Republicans continually vote to keep going.

Like Jody, I have the same right to not like paying thousands of dollars in property taxes knowing that a large amount of my money goes for school to educate children.
I don't have any children, why the hell should I have to pay for other people's children?

Well Jody, we are both in a tough position not wanting to pay our hard earned money to benefit someone else,

But it looks like nothing can be done to make us feel better, things are not going to change.

It's tough being selfish and righteous pricks but somebody has to do it

Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:27pm PT
You realize that 'Grab her by the Pussy Comment' was directed at your mother, wife, sister....

which part of the book was that from?

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:31pm PT
Before we ban towel heads we need a Homeland Security vetting process to determine what American's are real or fake christians...I nominate Locker as Vetting czar...Dude's sniffing em out left and right.. I would have never figured Jody to be a fake christian...Apalling...rj
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:32pm PT
Thankfully, our white nationalist leaders are fairly incompetent in their implementation of white nationalist policies.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:34pm PT
Classic L0ckur BS

Uh...


let me think on this one just a little longer...


Back to the glue bucket ol'boy

#UMEATSUMONE#
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:35pm PT
My Grandmother was a lovely Christain lady with class and dignity. To refrain from disparaging others seemed to be a basic tenet of her faith.

Jody-
a glue-sniffing, pot smoking, atheist's opinion as to what a Christian should be

Some priorities of the "Neo Christian Right" seem to be derived from nefarious ideas that easily manifest in individuals that suffer from specific psychological maladies. Sorry grandma...
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
And you must not be paying that close of attention my X Cop GUD buddy, because I am an agnostic...

I have no idea if there is anything going on AFTER death...(EDITED: But I certainly have my suspicions)...

and neither does anyone else...


You can CLAIM that you know...

but there is no way you can...

HaHa...the gLUU is tlaking!!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:50pm PT
Tlaking....? Google says it's talking and quacking at the same time...drF is Werner...Busted...
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:52pm PT
H00k...loin....and Shrinker
dirtbag

climber
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:52pm PT
How long until this thread is iced?
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:08pm PT
What you and the pothead glue sniffer are saying, is if anybody ever says or does anything immoral, than we can never support anything they ever do."...


#lackingcomprehensionskills...



EDITED:

"than we can never support anything they ever do."...

Shouldn't it be, THEN???...



Huh?

What does this mean?

Yur spun-the-fugg-out tiny L0ckur...HaHa
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:31pm PT
The only one who was ever perfect was Jesus.

Now how would you know that?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:32pm PT
Travel ban blocked again - CLOWN SHOW!!!
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Mar 15, 2017 - 09:50pm PT
I don't have any children, why the hell should I have to pay for other people's children

I don't think you should have to. Property taxes are assessed by the city/county though. Not sure Trump can do anything about that

A lot of my federal taxes go to people with children.
Have you ever taken a federal child tax Credit?

Not that Trump can do much about anything.

Edit,
I have no problem with my taxes helping others.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:02pm PT
Damn Jody, you should take a rest and actually read your own stuff.......... What's the problem dude? And that comment in the 'long joke' thread was totally uncalled for. Way to ruin sh#t for others.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:10pm PT
BHO's regulations put 174,000 vets on the list. (just having your benefit checks going to a caretaker or relatives address was enough)

Only 19,000 on that list have been diagnosed as mentally ill, and would have been on the denial list regardless.

As usual, your quote stolen from the NRA website is flat-out wrong.

You can look it up yourself:

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/12/19/2016-30407/implementation-of-the-nics-improvement-amendments-act-of-2007

Or the relevant section:

We are not reporting information in records based solely on a medical finding of disability without the person being adjudicated as subject to the Federal mental health prohibitor “consistent with 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(4).” The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) has clarified through regulations that this prohibition covers individuals who have been determined by a court, board, commission or other lawful authority as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition or disease to be a danger to himself or to others, or who lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs.[4]

This is NOT simply having your check mailed to your relative. It requires you designating that you are no longer capable of managing your affairs, and designating someone else.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:18pm PT
[quote]I find it odd that the left (and the Pope) say "Muslim terrorism does not exist".

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30[/quote]

Because terrorism is incompatible with Islam, just as you could say that a "Christian terrorist" is actually not a Christian.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:23pm PT
Any reasonable person would understand those countries have many people of various faiths. When did judges start using imagined citizens with assumed perceptions as the basis for enforcing the rule of law?

Gosh, I think that President Trump is not imaginary. And he PROMISED that he would enact a "Muslim Ban" for a period of time, to "sort things out.

And they he enacts a BAN, ONLY on MUSLIM-predominant countries, "for a period of time", "to sort things out".

But he said he'd win on appeal.....just like he did on the first travel ban. How's that first appeal goin' for ya?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:33pm PT
it's actually not correct to classify the US as a "Christian" nation.

Christian is not a religion. If it means believing in Jesus, then Muslims are, too.

The most common religion in the US is Catholic.

Are we a Catholic country?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:39pm PT
I guess I should just sit there and take the crap and NEVER fight back, otherwise I am not a Christian.

Maybe someone tore the relevant pages out of your book:


In the Gospel of Matthew, an alternative for "an eye for an eye" is given by Jesus: 38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

I don't expect you to be perfect, but when you don't even try...and use it as an excuse to never have to try......
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 15, 2017 - 10:44pm PT
My point is that even if someone is not at the top of the list for moral character, what he actually does as POTUS is what I critique. Just because I agree with his EO's etc, doesn't mean I am defending his moral misdeeds. What you and the pothead glue sniffer are saying, is if anybody ever says or does anything immoral, than[edit: then] we can never support anything they ever do.


Actually, for many years, that is EXACTLY the argument that conservatives have used.

What you appear to have no understanding of, is the power of the words of the President.

I agree that Bill Clinton did some shameful things. I was critical of him at the time for them. But as far as I know, he never bragged about them, or defended them as appropriate.

He hid them, he was ashamed of them. Trump is not. He is proud of his behavior. He brags of it. And you support him.

You participate, Jody, in the coarsening of American leadership. In essence, you are now going back in time, and saying that Bill was ok in his actions....they didn't matter.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Mar 15, 2017 - 11:04pm PT
But as far as I know, he never bragged about them, or defended them as appropriate.

He hid them, he was ashamed of them.

And he committed perjury, a felony. I forgive him all of it but that. In fact I couldn't care less about any of it but that.

Just an interjection. I have a compulsive obsession to point out the actual crime Clinton committed, whatever context it arises in.

Trump will find his own way to such a situation, but unlike Clinton, he will not come out unscathed.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 15, 2017 - 11:06pm PT
#L0ckurLOVEsNAZIsm#

Sick little 'man'
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:13am PT
Can we steer this conversation back to the actions of the president? (Hard to use that term).
I know more about Jody than I need to. Probably a nice guy and he takes great pictures, but it's mostly TMI.

Ken, excellent posts, as usual.

Where's the evidence that former President Obama wire tapped Trump? Put up or shut up, orange guy. If not, resign.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:31am PT
Jody, there's a bit of a difference. The POTUS has accused his predecessor of a crime without producing evidence. And you seem to be ok with that. Why?

And the US Intelligence Community has officially concluded that Russia interfered in the '16 election. There's no dispute about that.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:40am PT
*The United States Intelligence Community has officially concluded that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 United States elections

.[1] An intelligence community assessment stated, "Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the U.S. presidential election. Russia’s goals were to undermine public faith in the U.S. democratic process, denigrate Secretary Hillary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump. We have high confidence in these judgments."[2]

Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:41am PT
*U.S. intelligence agencies assessed that Putin "personally directed" the operation.

[7] CIA Director John Brennan, FBI Director James Comey and DNI James R. Clapper agreed on the "scope, nature and intent" of Russia's alleged interference to assist Trump.[8] Several cybersecurity firms stated that the cyberattacks were committed by Russian intelligence groups Fancy Bear and Cozy Bear.[9] In October 2016, U.S. President Barack Obama used the red phone line to directly contact Putin and issue a warning to him regarding the cyber attacks
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:53am PT
Yeah, flogging Jody for his faith has gotten really old.

Let's bash 45 instead.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:04am PT
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:06am PT
Thanks for answering my question regarding the PVL/LIC's locker room talk. Jody. I mean that sincerely.


10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:11am PT
Yeah, flogging Jody for his faith has gotten really old.

That may be true, but hasn't Jody demonized people that do not share his belief in God?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:22am PT
Some, but we can go round and round forever.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:37am PT
Yeah! Love that song. He was great in the "Blues Brothers."




dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:45am PT
That's what I'm talkin' about!
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:54am PT
You guys missed a good senate hearing on CSPAN yesterday. They were discussing Russian hacking, and it was super bi-partisan. Lindsay Graham said it was like Article 5 in NATO's charter, an attack against one party was an attack on all parties. The mood was terrific.

The picture painted by the witnesses was dire, though. It was more or less a discussion of the Kremlin's playbook. They did bring up their demand for an answer from the Justice Department regarding any potential wiretapping of Trump's campaign. They are taking that claim VERY seriously.

If you haven't noticed, they have cocooned Trump over the last several weeks, allowing no questions from the press. Spicer danced around Trump's claim that Obama tapped his phone. I guess that someone got through to Trump and told him that all he did was bring more heat on himself every time he made an outrageous claim that was later shown to be a lie.

The more likely scenario is that the NSA was listening in on every word that the Russian ambassador, as well as foreign Russians, and the calls from the Trump campaign were overheard. How else could they have presented Kelly with that transcript of his call to the Russian Ambassador?

Trump's cronies were talking to the Russians during this event, and that was probably overheard. We dunno until we know, I guess. Lindsay Graham wanted to be able to say publicly whether it was true or not.

It was nice to see the Senate behave like professionals for once. They were all in agreement: Russia is up to some bad stuff. Not only here. It is much worse in Europe.

The committee wants to see Trump's tax returns no doubt. The house voted down a request from democrats asking for a copy of them, only a few hours after the Senate finished up the hearing for the day.

I'm gonna watch it again today.
yanqui

climber
Balcarce, Argentina
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:58am PT
The Jose Feliciano video was worth the price of admission
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 10:49am PT
^^^Lois is back!^^^


Hi, Lois!
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 16, 2017 - 10:59am PT
Well Jody, we are both in a tough position not wanting to pay our hard earned money to benefit someone else,

Y'all do know that we live in a continuum, not a point in time...

I do not have kids, however some folks w/out kids put $$ into my public education and I am grateful. I have no problem with some of my $$ going to schools, it is better to have educated youngin's than uneducated folks. Plus, you never know what might happen to you in terms of health, your community's health and basic living conditions; one of those kiddos in the school system you have paid into just might contribute back to your community that will benefit you, since y'all seem to be making this 'sitch all about you...
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 11:04am PT
PT
Hi dirtbag, Sorry to disappoint you but I am not Lois.



Sure...

Right on cue, a not-Lois, Lois denial from Lois.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 11:09am PT
Yeah...I wonder what Lois would think?
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 16, 2017 - 11:18am PT
(or, rather, thinks he does not need)
^^
seems like the 'emotional crux' to me..


This would be a great discussion to have, pros and cons, geographical relevance, types of x, y or z. It help to get folks on a similar page to allow work with forward thinking to take place.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Mar 16, 2017 - 11:33am PT
Work for the better of the whole.

I was in Challis ID one summer for a month working fires and fire research and every AM a group of us met for coffee and b-fast when the local diner opened. We always sat next to a table of 5 or 6 farmers/ranchers. Somewhere into what seemed like their second cup, one of them would ask the others "What are you going to do for the good of the order today". Well, myself and my pardners thought that'd be a good way to start our days on future projects, current projects and life in general. It all really leads back to the jist of Ed Hartouni's awesome lil note about his grad school days. I believe we have all been there/here, some just fail to recognize, forget or are just ignorant. The one that contains cognitive dissonance is what hurts us all.

Or a balance that humans depend on...clean air and water. The current admin places $$ above this. How can you spend your $$ on a golf game if you can't breath or drink clean water? Very simplistic, I understand but you get the point eh?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 16, 2017 - 11:46am PT
KenM, you are right on one thing and wrong on one. I am not perfect and should "turn the other cheek" more often. You are wrong about me not even trying...I was one of the first users to ever register on this site, #19 or something like that back in 2001. Ever since, my beliefs and faith have been under attack. I understand that it comes with the territory. But I also assert that I have exhibited some exceptional restraint also.

Jody, it's hardly fair to point out, that as one the earliest posted, you came aboard with an agenda to talk about your faith---in other words, to proselytize. (you would probably disguise this as talking about the "good news"). Right from the beginning. So when people complain about non-climbing content, they are complaining about YOU, and you did it from day one.

Take, in contrast, Jim Brennan. He doesn't write a thing about his faith, so you'd never know that he heads a Black Demon worshiping cult (Just kidding!)

You've taken the path of the Christian Warrior (similar to the Islamic Terrorist), in which you will shove your faith down the throats of everyone---THEN play the martyr.

You are reaping what you have sown.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 16, 2017 - 11:52am PT
Where's the evidence Russia hacked the election and helped Trump win?

Put up or shut up.

We have all these Intelligence Officers (law enforcement in many cases), who state that the evidence is clear, but classified.

You insist, Jody, that it doesn't exist unless it is revealed to the public.

How patriotic.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 16, 2017 - 12:27pm PT
sounds like Lois...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 16, 2017 - 01:05pm PT
Trump want $4.1 BILLION for the Wall. Huh? Where's Sumner? We're paying for it?? I thought Mexico was????

What happened???? Did he lie again???

(yes)
Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 01:07pm PT
get the hell out of here
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 16, 2017 - 01:08pm PT
didn't ya notice that every time he puts his thumb and forefinger together, he tells a lie?
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 16, 2017 - 02:04pm PT
I try to be constructive in my political posts, but this was too hilarious for me to not share:
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 16, 2017 - 02:18pm PT
More bombs, less meals on wheels for poverty stricken seniors. Thank you Mr President.

Isn't this the same guy that promised during his huge inauguration that the forgotten men and women of America would be forgotten no more?
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 16, 2017 - 02:33pm PT
Isn't this the same guy that promised during his huge inauguration that the forgotten men and women of America would be forgotten no more?

I guess so, but he is also the guy that called Hillary a liar.
pot-kettle

where is cosmic now?
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 16, 2017 - 02:56pm PT
This is a bit long, but worth it I think. This is Nicholas Kristol, in the New York Times today.

A woman who had been bleeding for 12 years came up behind Jesus and touched his clothes in hope of a cure. Jesus turned to her and said: “Fear not. Because of your faith, you are now healed.”
Then spoke Pious Paul of Ryan: “But teacher, is that wise? When you cure her, she learns dependency. Then the poor won’t take care of themselves, knowing that you’ll always bail them out! You must teach them personal responsibility!”

They were interrupted by 10 lepers who stood at a distance and shouted, “Jesus, have pity on us.”

“NO!” shouted Pious Paul. “Jesus! You don’t have time. We have a cocktail party fund-raiser in the temple. And don’t worry about them — they’ve already got health care access.”

“Why, they can pray for a cure,” Pious Paul explained. “I call that universal health care access.”

Jesus turned to the 10 lepers. “Rise and go,” he told them. “Your faith has made you well.” Then he turned back to Pious Paul, saying, “Let me tell you the story of the good Samaritan.

“A man was attacked by robbers who stripped him of clothes, beat him and left him half dead. A minister passed down this same road, and when he saw the injured man, he crossed to the other side and hurried on. So did a rich man who claimed to serve God. But then a despised Samaritan came by and took pity on the injured man. He bandaged his wounds and put the man on his own donkey and paid an innkeeper to nurse him to health. So which of these three should we follow?”

“Those who had mercy on him,” Pious Paul said promptly.
Jesus nodded. “So go ——”

“I mean the first two,” Pious Paul interjected. “For the Samaritan’s work is unsustainable and sends the wrong message. It teaches travelers to take dangerous roads, knowing that others will rescue them from self-destructive behaviors. This Samaritan also seems to think it right to redistribute money from those who are successful and give it to losers. That’s socialism! Meanwhile, if the rich man keeps his money, he can invest it and create jobs. So it’s an act of mercy for the rich man to hurry on and ignore the robbery victim.”

“How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of Heaven,” Jesus mused to himself. “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter heaven.”

“Let me teach you about love, Jesus — tough love!” Pious Paul explained. “You need a sustainable pro-business model. And you need to give people freedom, Jesus, the freedom to suffer misery and poverty.”

“The Lord God has anointed me to bring good news to the poor,” Jesus replied, emphasizing the last two words. Then he turned to a paralyzed beggar at his feet. “Stand up!” Jesus told the man. “Pick up your mat and go home.” As the man danced about joyfully, Pious Paul rolled his eyes dismissively.

“Look, Jesus, you have rare talent, and it should be rewarded,” Pious Paul said. “I have a partner, The Donald, who would like to work with you: He’d set up a lovely hospital, and the rich would come and pay for you to heal them. You’d get a percentage, and it’d be a real money-spinner. Overhead would be minimal because every morning you could multiply some loaves and fishes. You could strike it rich!”

“Blessed are the poor, for theirs is the kingdom of God,” Jesus said. “But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received comfort.”
“Oh, come on, Jesus,” Pious Paul protested. “Don’t go socialist on me again. Please don’t encourage class warfare. The best way to help the needy is to give public money to the rich. That then inspires the poor to work harder, galvanizes the sick to become healthy, forces the lepers to solve their own problems rather than kick back and depend on others. That’s why any realistic health plan has to focus on providing less coverage for the poor, and big tax benefits for the rich. When millions of people lose health care, that’s when a country is great again!”

“From everyone who has been given much,” Jesus told him, “much will be required.”

“Well, sure, this hospital would have a foundation to do some charity work. Maybe commissioning portraits of The Donald to hang in the entrance. But let’s drop this bleeding heart nonsense about health care as a human right, and see it as a financial opportunity to reward investors. In this partnership, 62 percent of the benefits would go to the top 0.6 percent — perfect for a health care plan.”

Jesus turned to Pious Paul on his left and said: “Be gone! For I was hungry and you gave me no food; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink; and I was sick, and you did not help me.”

“But, Lord,” protested Pious Paul of Ryan, “when did I see you hungry or thirsty or sick and refuse to help you? I drop your name everywhere. And I’m pro-life!”

“Truly, I say to you,” Jesus responded, “as you did not help the homeless, the sick — as you did not help the least of these, you did not help me.”
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 16, 2017 - 04:07pm PT
On Universal Healthcare:

IF we start from the premise that some form of baseline healthcare is a human right, then the cheapest way to provide it is with a single-payer system. It should be obvious why: any for-profit insurance entity is a middle-man that increases average costs for all because you still have the same healthcare services to pay, but you also have to pay for the profit of the insurance companies on top of executive salaries (which tend to be higher than government workers with similar levels of experience and responsibilities).

A single payer system will be the most powerful entity to negotiate lower prices from vendors, the equivalent of all private insurance companies combined. This will yield the lowest prices possible from drug vendors, hospitals, and medical service providers.

I see the main debates as these:
1) How to maintain transparency in the price negotiations, to ensure that government officials are doggedly pursuing the lowest prices possible for each drug and category of service, not succumbing to kick-backs or helping their friends
2) How to set AND MONITOR quality thresholds to ensure medical companies aren't making the wrong decisions about making their companies more efficient and profitable
3) Need to find a balance between the rights of government workers to seek gainful and equivalent level employment when they are done with their government role, but also mitigate the threat of time-shifted bribes where a government official approves some drug to the formulary or negotiates less aggressively to lower prices, and then goes to work for a company that benefited. This can get very tricky to prove when it is a real violation, and also too easy to punish someone for appearances when they have done nothing wrong.

And the most obvious issue:

4) What constitutes the baseline human right health service? Where do we draw the line on birth control, chiropractic visits, acupuncture, X-ray vs. MRI, minimally indicated vs. comprehensive panel of blood tests for each set of reported symptoms or suspected illnesses... Am I allowed to ask for a comprehensive panel of allergy tests if I read a magazine article about the evils of gluten?



Some people worry that this approach will kill innovation, that pharmaceutical companies won't receive investments if they can't make huge profits from their high-risk low-probability investments with long time commitments to get through FDA approvals, etc. Well, we might rediscover the merits of the National Science Foundation (NSF) and National Institute of Health (NIH) grants to university researchers that really are breaking ground on the new discoveries. The pharmaceutical companies are like parasites that swoop in with the finishing details to reap a profit after over-worked and under-paid researchers have spent a decade or more to advance a new discovery.

We are cutting funding in basic research now... who is going to have the memory to tell the news stories 10 years from now why our pharmaceutical companies are not as innovative? Because they don't have as many discoveries to cherry-pick and profitize as they do during periods of government investment in basic research?

Argghhhhhh.... must self-regulate, going to withdraw from supertopo for the rest of the day :)
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 04:31pm PT
And, you know which "former" republican taco member also supports universal health care?

Gee, what a coincidence!

(LOL!!!)

10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 16, 2017 - 04:50pm PT
So the idiot in chief wants to cut funding for the coast guard. Coastlines also constitute borders.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 16, 2017 - 04:53pm PT
Ken, it is very possible they did hack the election and lend a hand, so to speak. Having said that, I do believe Trump would have won, in any event. Hillary was a terrible candidate and she ran an awful campaign. As a GOP voter, it floors me that Trump managed to pull this thing off. I would have never thought it could happen. Now, if Trump had run against Biden, we might be looking at a very different outcome or, then again, maybe not. Hard to speculate but the same dynamics would have come into play.

Pivot to another topic, Lois?

It doesn't matter if they swung the election to Trump, they committed an act of war against the US. That is the issue.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 16, 2017 - 05:00pm PT
Me? I've decided to go with the flow.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 05:18pm PT
Oh, ok Lois.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 16, 2017 - 05:46pm PT
And they very well may have. First we need evidence that such did actually occur and then we need to know whether they acted unilaterally or in collaboration with the President.


Seriously, Lois? You need to know if the Russians placed hidden wiretaps on Trumps' phones, in collaboration with the President? Wouldn't he know that?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 16, 2017 - 05:49pm PT
Tillerson says diplomacy with North Korea has ‘failed’; Pyongyang warns of war

The secretary of state’s comments will fuel fears in the region that military options might be on the table to deter North Korea.


Fasten your seat belts!
c wilmot

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 05:51pm PT
We have had a failed diplomacy with North Korea since the armistice
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 16, 2017 - 06:13pm PT
Morgan S... Trump will never be investigated.. The Dems are a bunch of slacked-jawed faggots and can't get out of their own way when it comes to playing hardball... No offense to gays intended...Hillary will be investigated several more times to distract the conservative chimps while Trump dismantles America...get use to it..
WyoRockMan

climber
Grizzlyville, WY
Mar 16, 2017 - 06:19pm PT
He's the Orange Man he's got little hands
With a porn star by his side
He spun the wheel called the USA
And took us for a ride
His promises are all empty
When he moves his lips he lies
He's the Orange Man he's got little hands
With a porn star by his side
Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:06pm PT
John M

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:07pm PT
Norton.. we have seen that a hundred times. Do you really think that its going to change the mind of those who voted for Trump? If not, then what do you hope to accomplish?
Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:09pm PT
Norton

Social climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:12pm PT
John M, there are now new females posting on this thread who need to be reminded who they voted for. I intend to continue.
John M

climber
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:14pm PT
oh good grief.. well, this thread will be deleted then. No wonder Werner calls you a politard. I agree with him.






VVVVV... Doesn't need reminding. Does no good. Just gets threads deleted. More politard bullsh#t.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:30pm PT
Good job, Norton. He said it, he's the POTUS, needs reminding just who this clown is.
He'd love to distract everyone, can't let that happen.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:37pm PT
I'm in China on business and everybody I talk to is like "Trump, WTF?" Laughing stock of the world and he's just getting started. We are so fawked, not that crooked Hillary would have been any better.
It's like we were given two choices, the guillotine or the electric chair...
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 16, 2017 - 07:46pm PT
If Hillary were President you'd be getting hugged. Big difference.
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:34pm PT
Finally a President with the courage to take on the waste, fraud and abuse of Meals on Wheels.

When my father (Vietnam vet) was dying of cancer and those grey haired charlatans showed up smiling, offering affordable food...I smelled a rat!

Good on you sir!
Contractor

Boulder climber
CA
Mar 16, 2017 - 08:59pm PT
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 16, 2017 - 09:48pm PT
The STaco clowns are frothing again...haha

Angry about everything that means nothing

A very selective group of losers. Embarrassing lil'old men
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 16, 2017 - 10:07pm PT
About this thread!

My reply is sigh.

It's nice to see the new Lois,

banned in the blink of an eye.

And John M, I can hardly wait,
for your thoughts to be real,
& won't it be great?


oh good grief.. well, this thread will be deleted then. No wonder Werner calls you a politard. I agree with him.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 16, 2017 - 10:20pm PT
First step:

NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 16, 2017 - 10:22pm PT
I wonder if any Trump supporters here have friends or relatives who have died of cancer. My cousin's wife just last week got the diagnosis of an advanced cancer with a 4% survival rate after 5 years. She is a few years younger than me, has 2 kids in elementary school. Imagine going through chemo and everything possible for that chance of survival, fighting for a few years and keeping a stiff upper lip, all the while preparing what you want to leave your children with. What do you write in the letters for them to open when they turn 16, 18, meet the person they think they want to marry, etc.... As terrible as it is, it's far from a unique story. Most of us have a connection to family that is going through or went through something like this.

My wife is a cancer researcher, and there is really only 1 person I have ever known who works harder than she does (and that was a self-made guy that had hundreds of millions of dollars, and I knew him later when he was CEO of a company with 200 people). Lots of people talk the talk about how many hours they put in, but I have seen year after year how she is a machine. A "day off" for her is a Saturday where she works only 6-8 hours after she cleans up at home and does 4-5 loads of laundry. A typical week day starts at 7am with emails, grant writing, peer reviewing papers for publication, etc... then we spend about 20-30 minutes together talking over breakfast, and then she's at the lab until about 10pm or so (meeting with her students/postdocs or analyzing data or writing grants or reading papers to develop new hypotheses and develop experiments). All in, we're talking about 90 hrs/week as a steady state minimum. When she has big grant deadlines, she goes for weeks on end with 2-4 hours of sleep per night, and at the very end, I'm up with her all night doing final reviews and clean-up before submission.

She is a shining example of what makes America Great.

She is from Italy, recently got her green card. She's not going to get rich like a pharmaceutical start-up at the end of this. She is doing it because she loves science, loves forging into uncharted territory to unravel the stunning complexity and wonder of how our DNA repairs itself when it is damaged. We have little factories more complex than any human endeavor operating in every one of our cells, and she is reverse-engineering how part of that works as a step in the process of beating cancer. The only reward she really wants is the satisfaction of being able to keep doing what she is doing, which also happens to be a majorly good thing for humanity.

Trump's 20% budget cuts to NIH have a high probability of derailing her career (she is utterly dependent on NIH R-1 grants for funding her basic research, as are almost all basic medical researchers in America- the people who find the stuff that pharmaceutical companies can cherry-pick after 5-20 years of development in academic environments). She has done everything right for nearly 2 decades working her ass off and persevering over many obstacles.

For the last 3 years I have lived far from my school-age children in support of my wife's career, and I travel 2-3 times per month between Los Angeles and San Francisco area for the time they are in my custody. I wake up and get confused where I am, have sudden panic attacks in mornings thinking I am late to get the kids off to school and then realize I am actually far away from them, or I roll over in bed expecting to talk to my wife and realize I am with the kids. It's difficult, but lots of people have gone through way more difficult things, and one of the things that sustains us is we know we are working hard for a better future for ourselves, and woven somewhere in there is the trust that America is a place that rewards hard work.

Frustrating is hardly a sufficient word to express the feelings these things engender.

I have to stay close to my kids until at least they finish high school. My wife would have a much more easy and much more successful career in Switzerland (plus the climbing is frankly more spectacular, and she would actually have time to climb again if we lived there).

If we review what people thought made America great after World War II, I suspect we would find that by every measure Trump is crushing those things.

Does anyone here have a good story about Trump or his policies that can help me see a bigger picture about how our country will be tangibly better, how his priorities and decisions will make lives better for more people so I can take some consolation in how my life is being impacted? And hopefully these benefits will be enough to justify our collective loss of medical treatment advances in the coming years, and our nation's losses in a multi-national world of medical business?

This is just a slice into the biology and medicine field... I imagine there are countless stories like this across all scientific disciplines that advance our lives in ways we are too ignorant to understand or appreciate. And that is just looking at the pragmatic scientific stuff without considering the arts and humanities that add wonder to our lives, and all so we can afford billions and billions more to go into black-bag budgets for military expenditures of highly questionable value when we already outspend the rest of the world combined.

And why are we losing these things and so far out of whack in our priorities? Fear. Ignorance. Because about half of our country prefers Twitter-sized misinformation. Or maybe it's folks like Jody that just like to stir sh!t up and be contrarian because it's easier to argue and raise people's hackles than to be alone. Surely we can all challenge ourselves to find what is good in humanity to rally behind and invest in, rather than being manipulated into reactionary fear to what the worst of us might do and signing a blank check to unravel our civilization.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 16, 2017 - 10:27pm PT
Does anyone here have a good story about Trump or his policies that can help me see a bigger picture about how our country will be tangibly better, how his priorities and decisions will make lives better for more people so I can take some consolation in how my life is being impacted?


Yes, the country voted to get rid of the party whose number two member had set as his goal a "cancer moon shot" to accelerate the research for cancer cure. And it place, we have a VP whose primary goal is removing people's insurance for the treatment of cancer.....
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 17, 2017 - 02:03am PT
If Hillary were President you'd be getting hugged. Big difference.

Crankl00n is off-the-mark 100% of the time.

Living in a fantasy world.

Trust fund reality.

Sad and Laughable at same time.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 17, 2017 - 02:32am PT
Nutagain ^^^^^

You're EMO about all of the bad sh#t that hasn't happened yet and probably never will.

You love to take "waxing poetic BS" to the next level here. Very self-serving

Politard crankl00ns here are in a constant state of delusion and panic.

Blind arrogance is the reason you are in such a desperate state.
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 17, 2017 - 06:42am PT
^^
Profile of PotatoHead

Member profile information for PotatoHead is shown below. This member's account has been deactivated.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 17, 2017 - 07:04am PT
You're EMO about all of the bad sh#t that hasn't happened yet and probably never will

My wife just said no yesterday to a postdoc she was about to hire because of guidance from NIH on her existing grants. That's moved from probably never will to definite. This field is not like others where you fire someone and replace them the next day. It's a year-long hiring cycle and with this decision she loses 20% of her capacity for innovation.

If this was about hurting a small elite part of America to restore a nation full of assembly-line manufacturing workers, well I could rationalize that. It would be better overall for more people. But we are destroying a primary engine of prosperity and growth for our country, and there is nothing sustainable coming in its place.

My intention here was to put a face on another aspect of our country that is being adversely impacted by the decisions of this administration. It's not about the laws of nature or geo-political or economic circumstances beyond the control of our leadership. Frankly it's just dumb decision-making by our leaders.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 17, 2017 - 07:29am PT
Ha ha ha ha. This is how they'll rationalize it. From Rawstory.com, an admitted liberal website, but still, data is data.

A Tennessee woman who backs President Donald Trump credits God and the Republican health care bill — which hasn’t been voted into law — for her family’s dramatically lower insurance costs.

Charla McComic’s son recently lost his job, and his health-insurance premium dropped from $567 per month to $88, which she described as “a blessing from God” and a gift from the new president, reported the Washington Post.

The 52-year-old former first-grade teacher thinks the change is due to tax credits that would be offered under the so-called “Trumpcare” law, if and when it’s approved by Congress and signed into law — but the price drop is actually a feature of former President Barack Obama’s Affordable Care Act.

Workers who lose their jobs and employer-based health care coverage may enroll in Obamacare, which offers coverage based on income or possibly Medicaid for those with little or no income — like McComic’s son.

McComic, who attended Trump’s rally this week in Nashville with four family members, told the Post she’s not worried that her 33-year-old son or 3-year-old granddaughter will lose their Medicaid coverage under the GOP plan.

“So far, everything’s been positive, from what I can tell,” she told the newspaper. “I just hope that more and more people and children get covered under this new health-care plan.”

McComic, who campaigned for Trump with some relatives by forming a motorcade and driving through their hometown shouting his name, said she’s never trusted a president as much as the real estate developer and former reality TV star.

“We said: ‘Who else would we do this for, besides Trump?’” McComic said. “We agreed on the Lord. We would stand here for the Lord, but that’s about it.”
c wilmot

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 07:30am PT
Prosperity for whom? pharmacutical companies who " cherry pick" that research are making bank . We don't need more charity for Martin shkreli.

nutagain- I feel for ya- but you have shown nothing but contempt for working class Americans whose jobs have been lost to globalization. It's telling how you react now that it's YOUR family who might be affected by misguided policy's.


Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 17, 2017 - 07:40am PT

tell us your story about what troll has done for you cwilnot.
c wilmot

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 07:50am PT
I don't support trump. I am pointing out that the people who could care less if other peoples jobs are lost are suddenly upset now that THIER earnings might be affected by misguided policy's.

Like a blue collar worker out of a job- if you are reliant on federal funds to make money then it's YoUR fault for not being smart enough when those funds dry up
...Right?



monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 17, 2017 - 08:03am PT
US makes formal apology to Britain after White House accuses GCHQ of wiretapping Trump Tower

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/17/us-makes-formal-apology-britain-white-house-accuses-gchq-wiretapping/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 08:09am PT
Stfu, trump!!!^^^^
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 17, 2017 - 08:10am PT
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Mar 17, 2017 - 08:14am PT
US makes formal apology to Britain after White House accuses GCHQ of wiretapping Trump Tower

Yet, no apology to Obama.
Fritz

Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
Mar 17, 2017 - 08:48am PT
Meals on Wheels?

Who in the hell zeroes out Meals on Wheels? Who decides that a program that spends $3 million to help volunteers feed the elderly and infirm in their communities is something that the country can no longer afford? Who are the men in the meetings who make this kind of call? What are their names? Trot them out so the country knows who they are. C'mon, David Brooks, find out who they are and explain why National Greatness Conservatism has a problem with starving elderly shut-ins.
http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/news/a53897/trump-budget-meals-wheels/
This Is the Ending Conservatives Always Wanted

My mother used to receive meals on wheels as an elderly "shut-in" with very limited finances. It was a big-thing to her.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Mar 17, 2017 - 09:09am PT
Two months in and Trump has managed to insult two of our closest English speaking allies, countries that have fought with the U.S. since WWI. You know that beneath the diplomatic language they are thinking he is an unhinged moron.

How about some basic competence?
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 09:10am PT
It's so humiliating.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 17, 2017 - 09:15am PT
Trump and his billionaire country club chumps ( CCC) are draining the swamp of undesirable Americans.. The old , the sick , and the impoverished... Soon the blonde haired and blue eyed will rule making America great again...
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 09:42am PT
10b: republican congressman Tom cole thinks trump should apologize to Obama:

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/tom-cole-trump-should-apologize-obama-wiretapping-claim-236170
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 17, 2017 - 10:18am PT
Trump won big in parts of rural America. Now he wants to eliminate 3 agencies dedicated to helping them.


In the president's budget outline, none of the rural development agencies — the Appalachian Regional Commission, the Delta Regional Authority, the Northern Border Regional Commission — would receive any money. In effect, it would eliminate these programs, which are completely subsidized by the federal government.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 17, 2017 - 10:24am PT
Subsidies for airline service to small communities is on the chopping block. The majority of the areas that received these subsidies voted for Trump.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 17, 2017 - 10:39am PT
U.S. prepared to take military action against N. Korea, if necessary, Tillerson says

The Trump administration gave its clearest signal yet that it would consider military action against North Korea, with Secretary of State Rex Tillerson saying that “all options are on the table.” North Korea has said that it is working on an intercontinental ballistic missile capable of striking the U.S. mainland and has shown clear progress in its missile program in tests over the past year.

You have to give Trump credit. He has already submitted a budget to Congress that is designed to pay for this new war! And the middle class and poor will pay for it.
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 17, 2017 - 10:51am PT
Subsidies for airline service to small communities is on the chopping block. The majority of the areas that received these subsidies voted for Trump.

That's just in keeping with his campaign theme song, "You Can't Always Get What You Want".
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 17, 2017 - 11:04am PT
Just to give insight into GOP thinking:

As many have noticed, we have a opioid narcotic problem in the US, with tens of thousands of Americans being killed by OD's.

The GOP looks at this great increase in use of these drugs, and sees an opportunity: You get to kill off the swamp-dwellers, AND you have the opportunity to make money at the same time!

"With less than 5% of chronic pain patients becoming addicted to opiates, this leave the other 95%, who are often some of the poorest in America and have nothing to do with addiction or addiction treatment, to pick up the tab for addiction treatment. I find myself truly disappointed and ashamed of our government. This tax is discriminatory and we are going to fight it."

dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 11:18am PT
Attacks on meals on wheels are political gifts to democrats.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 17, 2017 - 11:25am PT
Trump and Constitutionality:

0-3

Are you tired of winning, yet???????????????
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 17, 2017 - 11:52am PT
I sure hope Trump is able to fill out his term and run again.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 11:57am PT
I have a feeling that many of his voters simply wanted him to piss off liberals.

Ok, he's done that, big time. Yay team.

Further fragmenting this country might be his only major accomplishment.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 17, 2017 - 12:53pm PT
nutagain- I feel for ya- but you have shown nothing but contempt for working class Americans whose jobs have been lost to globalization.

I get that you perceive that about me. I don't feel any contempt at all for people who lose jobs to outsourcing in the past, or automation in the future. I have been one of the most vocal people here about this growing problem and how we should deal with it. I have been forthcoming in my viewpoints about how I think government and our economy should be structured to help the vast majority of us:
 increased taxes on high income folks and especially on corporate profits
 reduced military engagement in the world, to be a player in NATO actions rather than a global police/parent
 government paid quality daycare for parents who are working or actively interviewing
 government paid education through university level
 government investments in science research, especially alternative energy production and storage

All of these things would help America as a whole, though it's fair to say these things alone won't specifically help rural America compared to urban centers with universities and companies that champion innovations.

The problems of rural America are deeper, because manual labor is a more vulnerable commodity that will command lower wages even as America goes through periods of prosperity. Part of the problem is a lack of commitment for folks in small towns to develop marketable skills and move to the places where those jobs exist. But part of it is also the simple reduction in need for workers to meet our collective needs.

I have been a champion for a baseline wage for all people as I foresaw a time when there just aren't enough jobs to go around. That very directly would help people in rural areas, and enable them to pursue whatever they want (agriculture, auto-repair, specialty restaurant, bed and breakfast to meet new people, whatever....) that will enrich their lives without fear for their basic ability to feed their families and keep thr lights on.

All that said, I have expressed contempt for something that you lumped together which I did not. I do have contempt for willful ignorance and the type of small-town bullies that oppress people who are physically weaker but smarter than themselves. I guess bullies and ignorance lives everywhere city or country, but my rural upbringing means I have more direct and visceral experience with that breed. My kids live in an affluent area with educated parents and being smart is a badge of honor among youth. In my childhood, it was a social stigma to overcome with my charming personality ;) When I see people smugly ignorant and making fear-driven votes for policies that will hurt themselves and me along with it, it does piss me off. I deal with that frustration by trying to educate, show examples, use logic to make my points repeatedly for people who might not have the capacity to get it the first time. That's the most constructive way I can see to deal with it. I might be wrong or simply inexperienced/unaware of better ways to deal with it.


So in short, I have compassion rather than contempt for people who want to work but are stuck in circumstances that makes that very difficult or impossible. I don't have contempt for rural America. I do have contempt for aggressive ignorance and people who act without considering the consequences for the system as a whole and without making an effort to find solutions that benefit as many people as possible.


Aside from all this, it's not an "us" and "them" issue where educated/liberal people are in opposition to uneducated/conservative folks. It's not a rural versus city folk dilemma. Those are false wedges that mask how we are all living in the same country and how we are all screwed if the system doesn't work for large swaths of us. The real us/them is who aggregates wealth versus who loses it in our system.

And those aggregating the wealth know that as long as we can stay mired in stupid bickering between whatever wedge of the day is effective (pro-choice/pro-life, pro/anti-gay, guns/no-guns, city/country, true Americans vs immigrants, whatever), then the rich folks can keep the limelight off of them and keep getting richer while every day we lose the power to fight it without resorting to a bloody revolution.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 01:57pm PT
Here is a list of our president's accomplishments in just under two months in office:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/trump-once-said-we-were-led-by-very-very-stupid-people-hes-finally-right/2017/03/17/1c6f915a-0b3a-11e7-b77c-0047d15a24e0_story.html?utm_term=.f72e9a5def5c

Makes me mighty proud to be an American.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 17, 2017 - 01:57pm PT
Nut Again... I like what you are saying but you should keep your posts shorter so Madbolter has room for his Walls of text...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 17, 2017 - 02:05pm PT
National embarrassment.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/17/opinions/trump-falsehoods-a-national-embarrassment-ghitis/index.html
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 02:08pm PT
Yep, survival. And, it was all too evident during the campaign that we would be subjected to this kind of crap.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 17, 2017 - 02:15pm PT
Point taken on brevity! It's a tough one for me.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 17, 2017 - 04:04pm PT
The White House is so clued out they took this satirical piece seriously, and referenced it in a press release, believing it favored Trump's new budget!

What a bunch of idiots :-)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/compost/wp/2017/03/16/trumps-budget-makes-perfect-sense-and-will-fix-america-and-i-will-tell-you-why
divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 17, 2017 - 04:44pm PT
Seems like trump is the only person in the world, other than those who voted for him, that believes Obama had him tapped.
NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Mar 17, 2017 - 05:10pm PT
I suspect Trump is either hoping to uncover some universal/widespread surveillance stuff that he can claim a victory over, as a way to save face and say he was wiretapped, or he knows he was specifically followed because of honest security measures to protect our country and it is pre-spinning it for his followers.

It might be classified now so people are publicly denying it happened, and later Trump will try to use this to discredit them when they are ready to make non-classified shares.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 17, 2017 - 05:36pm PT
Man, after posting my new look picture I thought the White House would call me with a job offer. Damn, just silence. By the way, you should try walking around with a stash like that; you get ....... looks ...... and of course hot babes (well. not yet anyway).
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 17, 2017 - 06:25pm PT
No president has ever behaved this way. He just looks like the clown Prince or the emperor with no clothes...
c wilmot

climber
Mar 17, 2017 - 06:31pm PT
How will the nypd conduct surveillance of Muslims without that grant money? And the war on drugs-how will they fund such costs?

Think of the children!

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/wh-money-helps-pay-for-nypd-muslim-surveillance/
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 17, 2017 - 06:46pm PT
Story from last December, but still an entertaining read:

Trump Grill Could Be the Worst Restaurant in America: And it reveals everything you need to know about our (new) president.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/12/trump-grill-review
SC seagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
Mar 17, 2017 - 06:56pm PT
Prince or the emperor with no clothes...

Oh please. Why'd you have to bring up that image? Ewwwwwwwwwww


Susan
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Mar 17, 2017 - 09:42pm PT
Probably a typo on "decorticated".....

[Click to View YouTube Video]

edit: vvv, I guess not...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 17, 2017 - 10:30pm PT
He ought to get along with Angela: She speaks fluent Russian.......
Norton

Social climber
Mar 18, 2017 - 07:31am PT
dirtbag

climber
Mar 18, 2017 - 07:35am PT
George Washington...Abraham Lincoln...Teddy Roosevelt...FDR...Donald Trump...


divad

Trad climber
wmass
Mar 18, 2017 - 07:40am PT
No president has ever behaved this way. He just looks like the clown Prince or the emperor with no cloths....

or no clues...
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Mar 18, 2017 - 08:27am PT
Go Sox!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 18, 2017 - 08:39am PT
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Mar 18, 2017 - 01:58pm PT
I think it is important to look at the Strategy that this Food Stamps issue affords us:

The current system is part of a "block grant" system that was created some time ago. The allegation is that there were insufficient controls (ironically, not enough "Big Gov't telling them what to do). So now, the proposal is to through EVERYTHING out, the good with the bad.

Guess what, they want to put Medicaid on a "block grant" basis. Guess what the end game is?

This appears to be one of the new approaches that the GOP is using to dismantle the safety net.
Norton

Social climber
Mar 18, 2017 - 03:10pm PT
Makes sense

The very core of US Republicanisn is envy.

Envy and childish anger that some other American somewhere
is getting something undeserved, for nothing.

Isn't it, Honey Boo Boo
crankster

Trad climber
No. Tahoe
Mar 18, 2017 - 03:29pm PT
Locker, thanks for sharing the truth About Meals on Wheels. That silly 3.4% figure is making the rounds on rightwing media.

Trump's enemy:

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 18, 2017 - 03:29pm PT
Let those old disabled people eat nothing.
That'll motivate them to get off their fat lazy ass and back to work!!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 18, 2017 - 03:57pm PT
Trump's cuts will also include the beef jerky on wheels program..
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Mar 18, 2017 - 04:32pm PT
That'll motivate them to get off their fat lazy ass and back to work!!

hell yeah, digging f@#king coal and picking tomatoes.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 18, 2017 - 04:47pm PT
Dude, everyone knows you can pick grapes from a 4x4 wheelchair. Especially if we pave between the rows.
Who cares if it's 110 degrees out. We can give 'em those bitchin' little umbrella hats with the little fans on 'em.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 18, 2017 - 06:16pm PT
Time for a choice. Will it be...

Let's eat, Grandma.

or

Let's eat Grandma.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 18, 2017 - 06:23pm PT
Locker, thanks for sharing the truth About Meals on Wheels.

HaHa...a super stoned l0cker in a glue room tapping away to Master Google for the meaning of life.

Yep...that's legit.

Friggin brain-dead l0cKerr. Oy Vey

Keep up the guuud werk...l0L !!!
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 18, 2017 - 06:45pm PT
drF... A suggestion... Try using the adjectives , little and fag , if you want to troll other posters and stir the pot...And don't forget to water the cactus...
drF

Trad climber
usa
Mar 18, 2017 - 07:25pm PT
Try using the adjectives , little and fag ,

RJ....this is about meating your projections. Lest you get this done.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Mar 19, 2017 - 09:05am PT
"" WE'RE IN TROUBLE""
Yah Think!
Fux'd-up[Click to View YouTube Video]
People are eating this stuff up.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2017 - 09:55am PT
Yawn,. What I really want to see are the sales receipts for Angela Merkel's E. German Chairman Mao pant suits!
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Mar 19, 2017 - 10:09am PT
I my self know, but ' The Toolish' only watch the phaux . . . .
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Mar 19, 2017 - 10:23am PT
Locker, add yerself to the long list of the StuporTopo reading comprehension challenged.
Trump ain't my boy, Ghengis Khan is.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 19, 2017 - 10:40am PT
58% disapproval, 37% approval.
Happy Sunday!

http://www.gallup.com/poll/201617/gallup-daily-trump-job-approval.aspx
dirtbag

climber
Mar 19, 2017 - 10:50am PT
Facts are a liberal conspiracy.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 19, 2017 - 10:55am PT
Dismantling everything Obama created..? You mean like Obama pulling the US out of Bushes great depression...? No suprise that Trumps ratings are low when he lost the popular vote by 3 million votes ..Hard to dispute facts like the poor turnout at his inaguration..
John M

climber
Mar 19, 2017 - 11:14am PT
TGT would probably be a Saint by now if people didn't force him to be arrogant and mean spirited.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Mar 19, 2017 - 11:23am PT
That must be the Flint , Michigan where children contracted lead poisioning from the cities drinking supply and their Republican governor , Snider , got raked over the coals for not acting on the disaster while denying any responsibility.. Now Trump and Spicer are attempting to re-write history and make himself Flint's savior..? Predictable..
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Mar 19, 2017 - 12:30pm PT
Impressive display of ignorance there, TGT

how did you survive the death panels and the confiscation of your guns?

Norton

Social climber
Mar 19, 2017 - 12:35pm PT


pure class
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Mar 19, 2017 - 12:48pm PT
BREAKING NEWS!!

Donald Trump, our newly minted national embarrassment, embarrasses nation!
Flip Flop

climber
Earth Planet, Universe
Mar 19, 2017 - 12:58pm PT
Dreadlocks are god's helmet for the righteous.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 19, 2017 - 05:14pm PT
Gonna be fun watching the repubs implode again this week. Push AHCA to far to the right and DOA in the Senate. Compromise to the left and DOA in the House.
monolith

climber
state of being
Mar 19, 2017 - 06:38pm PT
TGTn 's inbox needs the snopes analyzer plugin.

Edit: TGTn and his posts were removed and the thread locked.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Mar 19, 2017 - 07:16pm PT
All the usual suspect haters are back on the taco. It's hard to tell if you're clueless about how you come across, or if you just don't care.
Winemaker

Sport climber
Yakima, WA
Mar 19, 2017 - 08:11pm PT
The latter.
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