Rock removal in Woodfords Canyon

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kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 23, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
The Forest service is considering a proposal from a masonry contractor to remove 1500 tons of granite from Cloudburst canyon. (one of these days area) sounds like a smoke show in the making.

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558/abc123/forestservic.download.akamai.com/11558/www/nepa/92124_FSPLT2_290435.pdf
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
Damm Kenny!!!!!!!!

Ill be writing ONE HELLA long letter to them....


Kinda makes one wonder why we "saved the rock" doesnt it!!?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
Yeah, this is f*#king crazy I'm thinking this is in the paking area.Maybe if enough people voice their opposition this won't happen
WBraun

climber
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:29pm PT
Good

They should remove all rocks.

Rocks don't do anything, they're stupid.

Throw them into the ocean.

Make Wall Marts in their place.

Wall Mart has good deals for the American consumer ......
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:31pm PT
500 TONS a year...???

Its SMACK in a RIPARIAN zone and the EA says "minimal impact"?????


I know the district is hurting like all others,, HOWEVER,,ripping out granite from THE most pristine canyon around is fuggn ridiculous.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:33pm PT
Good

They should remove all rocks.

Rocks don't do anything, they're stupid.

Throw them into the ocean.

Make Wall Marts in their place.

Wall Mart has good deals for the American consumer ......
WallMart has low prices or gravel.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 12:34pm PT
Yeah, low impact motorized wheelbarrows, trucks and allowed to disturb up to 4 acres of vegetation.
WBraun

climber
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:35pm PT
LOL

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
A word of caution Herr Braun, this could cause the oceans to rise, leading to the flooding of the Wallmarts!

Whether this would be good or bad for Americans is left to the readers.


Rock me on the water, we'll get down to the sea somehow.


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:39pm PT
I can just see the dirt slides hitting the highway..Not to mention trundles.

Didnt see any sections of the operating plan,, like will they POST it temporarily to trespassing-- as in safety measures??

I have a butt load of questions for them..
I will use every trick, every favor owed and every one i know to see this plan goes down the toilet.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
Lock and Load Ron.
Stupid Gravel.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
get lost philowwww,, you AINT WERNER....


But AS USUAL, youll stoop to the lowest to get yur digs in,, like bagging on your own family,, or ROCK AND ROCK CLIMBERS.
TFSTFU

Trad climber
Utah
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:46pm PT
I hope this doesn't happen, woodfords is a great escape.

Edit: philo, you ever listen to yourself, cause you sound like a f*#kin idiot. I'm against guns, but you're an anti-gun nut.
adikted

Boulder climber
Tahooooeeeee
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
This would be tragic.... I hope they dont ruin such a beautiful area!!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 12:52pm PT
My guess is they would keep an eye on this for a bit but before you know this will become this guys private stash.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 23, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
get lost philowwww,, you AINT WERNER....
To which I am sure we are both quite pleased.
Thanks Ron I made $50 on your predictability.


Hey TFPTSD go lick a frozen lamp post.


Seriously now folks if this is important to you y'all best be getting up to date on this proposal and working through channels as early as possible. Let me mention that at one point Eldo was up for sale to a gravel company. Think how tragic that would have been?

Stupid Gravel.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
Don't despair gentlemen. They will make new roads, which means easier access to the crags, They will take some rock out, but that's OK. It's just like remodeling, and for Kenny it means an opportunity to put up new routs!

But seriously, I will write to the Forest service to oppose this project.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
Maybe a new campground!!!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
Yep Kenny.. And just how is this going to be tallied?? By contract inspections with scales,, HUGE scales???

And can you see rock laden trucks pulling out of a somewhat BLIND turn with traffic zooming downhill? Minimal impacts?? Doubtful.. Not to mention those that will see that going on, and figure they too can nab some granite. Perhaps we should go do some indian signs on the rock there,, antique it so it looks viable,, then call the tribe..;-)


But seriously, we are looking at the END of this report,, as when the USFS does an EA or an EIS,, its all but a done deal...

THE ONLY chance we have is for GOOD PEOPLE to get up and write their disgust of this,,,TODAY!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
I, was thinking the discovery of a couple arrowheads would be ideal
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:11pm PT
I HAVE to wonder what the Woodfords tribe thinks about all this..
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:19pm PT
If its where I think it is ( just downhill from Joyce's store and the CG), that's a pretty dangerous spot for dump trucks to be entering the flow of traffic.

Edit; from what I've been told, that north side is great for rock hounding. Like huge payout great.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
Im going to post this on some fishing forums as well--Seems they have an interest in things in the canyon too.


and Yes Brandon,, most ANYWHERE in the upper half of the canyon is sketch for pulling out. let alone with a loaded truck.
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
Save Woodfords!
I'll sign a petition or letter Ron.
Actually there is a quarry right next to my little gem Cannibis Crag,
Hope they don't wanna F#ck with it!
Tad

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 01:26pm PT
Project contact: Keith Whaley 760-932-7070 kwahley@fs.fed.us

Flood this guys e-mail and voicemail!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:31pm PT
Tad,, it will be better if each of us write the Carson Ranger District. Will make more of an impact if they receive e mails continually.

This whole thing isnt thought out very well. They are going to create essentially a quarry on one of the MAIN arteries through Alpine County, in a HIGH use recreation area, along a riparian zone..The road (hgwy88) is used by Bicycle events, motor cycle events, fishing events and climbing and camping..

From what i see the ONLY reason they have chosen the canyon is EASY ACCESS to the rock and fast exit out on a highway..

Here the climbers have been so diligent in creating trails as to not bother the surrounding lands,, and now,, some jackwagons will tear the shite out of it in an effort to rip out granite from that same land.
10b4me

Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
Philo, I am also anti gun, but you seem over the top. Shall we say OCD?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
I sent an email to Hope Valley Outdoors to keep them in the loop. Good folks, I used to work there.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
Save the personal attacks for one of the gun nut or political threads guys.
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
Tad,, it will be better if each of us write the Carson Ranger District. Will make more of an impact if they receive e mails continually
Copy that, will do.
Tad
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
Ain't no thang:

"extract up to 500 tons (~315 cubic yards) of granitic boulders annually, ranging from hand-size to three feet in length (approximately 1-2 pounds up to a ton)."

"Only hand-tools would be utilized to manage the rock. Only solitary rocks or those accessible by hand excavation would be available for collection."

Hell, I might even go out and volunteer... maybe get them to excavate some of the larger boulders and even out the landings a bit. You can't climb on anything <3' anyway.


"Enough rock debris would remain in place to stabilize slopes and deter erosion."

Provisions to ensure the above should be strongly emphasized in any letter. Cloudburst Canyon is a teetering pile of choss and the removal of one single 3' boulder could cause the entire canyon to gully out. No, just joking, but it could cause some serious gullying if the boulders are plucked out of the hillslope. If it creates a head cut it would seriously affect the stability of that loose pile of choss they call a "trail" that leads to OOTD.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 01:58pm PT
Ive already sent a lengthy e mail to the addy Kenny posted. I will do the same with the Dist Ranger as well, as that is the signature required to see this through..
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
I think this keith guy is retiring at the end of the month and Genny Wilson is taking over
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
ohw guddie...(sigh)....

Im grabbin every artifact i have ,, headin to the canyon, and do me sum planting. ;-)



Anyone got an old SKULL, we can borrow??
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
and how many SPOTTED OWLS did you see last weekend Kenny!!!!;-D
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
^^^ THAT should help protect the climbing. Hey, you should smear some red paint at the base of OOTD and High Energy too.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:14pm PT
"lightn up francis"
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
I don't understand you folks objecting to this proposal.The affected area is minimal; less than 4 acres, the extraction is limited to free (unattached to bedrock) boulders less tham 3 feet in diameter, only hand tools will be used, actually 500 tons/yr and a total of 1500 tons is miniscule, really. This sounds like not much more than collection of small rocks that would otherwise naturally self trundle onto the hwy. within a few decades anyway.Are you guys suggesting starting another friends of anti-capitalism which would be nothing more than advancement of bleeding heart liberal causes? Ron think about and investigate more before you act, if you will.
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
I hope it's another midnight sale marathon.
On imported Chinese Gravel.


It only hurts when it hits close to home.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
Hey Rick, STFU thanks'
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
I'm fine with it, as long as a QUALIFIED geomorphologist ensures the necessary grade control elements are left intact and/or stabilized.

500 tons annually is about 200-250 cubic yards. Say they are going down 10' (removing the upper 2-3 boulders of that size), that's about 75 square yards, or about 700 sq feet of area... or about a 1' swath from the highway to where the trail crosses the stream... every year. (check my calculations, I haven't had my second liter of coffee yet).

I'm dead serious about using this project to potentially excavate some mediocre bouldering... that steep talus stuff is often surprisingly fun.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
Rick,, Yes you bring up good points. But there is a jillion other places to harvest granite if someone so desires.

Problem 1, this will be a very visible operation that will be seen by others who will in turn get the same idea. And only a percentage of those will be legal.

I saw that with christmas tree theft in Alpine county, which went from one or two here and there to five thousand at a time.

The canyon IS my sacred place. Ive fought the fires, cruised the salvage sales, even cited the under sheriff of Alpine county once in the canyon. Climbed there like, you, since the 70s.

So no, im not against capitalism by any stretch and do think there are areas this could work ok,, but the canyon simply cant be one of them. Its one of THE most premier locales in alpine county imo..

that and i know very well how contract inspections and manifests in projects like this work, or dont work as the case often is. Ive heard the expression, "well that worked ok lets do some MORE" also..

A liberal nor conservative i be, just reaching for common sense. As much as the Washoes didnt want their rock to be disturbed is much the same reason i fear for the canyon.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
The forest service can't even keep the campgrounds open in the area.

Hey Wes, why don't you put your writing skills to work for us? Please address them to the dist ranger Genny Wilson thanks' kennyt
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
Maybe you guys should read further to see what slope stabilizations measures are proposed before assuming the worst.Perhaps this is a rational (seems impossible doesn't it) cost saving measure by caltrans.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
Ron, you constantly live on a slippery slope... one that is clearly far far far removed from invasive warm water fish of course.

Rick, I read them, they are vague and cursory at best.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
This is WOODFORDS CANYON.. A canyon with a RIVER running down it..IE : JUST about the RAREST thing around in the great basin..



Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:39pm PT
It would impact downhill traffic at a potentially problematic spot in the canyon.

I'm not particularly concerned about a few hundred yards of material being removed if they don't blast, and that's not part of the proposal.

Maybe I've just got a soft spot for the area. It's very nice and relatively unspoiled.

I mentioned it upthread, but has anyone been gem hunting in that area? I've seen some of the nicer yield and it's mighty purty.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
The parking for Woodcutters and Strangler cliffs would be greatly improved as well.


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 02:57pm PT
They already have their EA Kenny, im afraid its a dun deal.

And perhaps its just emotion that fuels my disgust. I fully admit that- but ive got vested interest in the place. IF they go any where NEAR LedZep arete,, consequences shall be dire. My last route with Dano man,,SACRED soil to me.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
Ron, I have a friend that works in that office and she said it's not even close to being a done deal
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:02pm PT
Give 'em your ammo, Ron!

Man, I have bad feeling about this too. I'd hope it's nothing more than low-angle choss they're taking out. Preferably with the goal of sculpting quality overhung jug routes! Yeah, right.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:03pm PT
well GOOOD!.. I think at this time, the only guys left i know are Wilde and Dobson...But ill give Wilde a ring anyhoo.


They could do this easily at say,, brewers mine area or forestdale. Out of sight, out of mind, out of the canyon. Improving the back way into blue lakes would be a GUD start. Plenty of granite available there.

Im not against a sensible harvest.

rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
The way i see it is that it is a rockfall onto the hwy. mitigation measure.A rare rational partnership between small business and a giant government bureaucracy. This is how things should be, a win win proposition that if repeated here, there and everywhere with a mryiad of different private enterprise just might go a long ways towards solving out of control government spending. The alternative, in this case i believe, would be weeks of inefficient work with heavy equipment, single lane traffic and flaggers,and a result no better. Of course i could be wrong, caltrans may have turned over a new highly efficient leaf that pleases rather than frustrates the public.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
Can we count on you for a letter there Jebus?

Rick, did you forget to take your meds this morning? go over to the politard threads your opinion may be appreciated there.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
whole lotta gun nut-esque paranoia going on here.
the plan is to remove some loose rubble, JHFC!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:13pm PT
the plan is to remove some loose rubble
I'm pretty sure they are probably interested in the larger stuff. I'm a gen. contractor and I know what I would be interested in.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
The best made plans of mice and men...

Rick,, as i said,, im FOR this sort of thing, but in sensible locales.

Alpine county advertises the canyon even in places like the "good sam club" and countless other publications and sites. Even climbing has graced covers of magazines there. In short, an economic plus to the woodfords area in general. The "death ride" event , motor cycle rallies and many other groups also use this canyon.

As ive been in most any location throughout the entire county i can think of no less that 10 places off hand that would suit this operation far better than the canyon. Jobs, money- commerce,, all GOOD.. doing it to the canyon BAD...When you open a door MORE WILL COME..See sport known as "climbing" for proof of that.;-)
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
Ron, Yer pal Rick seems to be of the opinion that they will be plucking rock off the side of the hwy. Just another troll lookin for an argument
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:17pm PT
I'm playing devils advocate here, but Kenny, what do you use for the wainscoting on the exterior of the homes you build?

Natural stone or cultured?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:19pm PT
I use both.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:21pm PT
Fair enough.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:21pm PT
EA does not equal done deal... one of the key words being Assessment.

You can count on me for a letter. My main concerns (which are easily addressed by people who know what they are doing, namely me) are:

Channel stability as a head cut could seriously affect access to the mid-canyon climbing areas. But if they stay to the N of the channel and just take rock off the colluvial wedge/debris flow, there won't be a problem.

Hillslope stability, which could cause gullying on the steep, loose colluvial material.

Future expansion of more intense mining activities.

The proper excavation of 6+' boulders to ensure flat landings and the strategic placement of accidental scars that may facilitate huge overhanging jug hauls.


I know plenty of people who gem hunt around these parts. You tend to get good crystals around the nonconformity between the underlying granitic rock and the younger overlying volcanic rock.



And BTW, I am going flash the sh#t out of Led Zep arete this spring... flash it like it was your mamma.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
Nahhh Kenny,, Rick DOES make valid and correct points about commerce..

I simply think there are far better areas to do this sort of thing that wont impact a very visible and popular recreational area..

I shudder to think of some sob with pry bars and a winch at the base of LZA.. Those locations are some of the few pull outs there- even camping spots.



Let em go to the VALLEY,, plenty o boulders easily gotten there!;-D


and Wes,, isnt an EA all that is required for the "small" operation? I did a whole timber sale beetle cut up blu lakes rd with only an EA..




and i hope you do Wes.. But the missing bolts still haven been re-installed. Im sure its right up yer alley.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:23pm PT
Brandon, were lucky around here most of the real stone I use comes from the excavation of the site nd is beutiful
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:25pm PT
Ron, don't you think this is going to happen anyway as ongoing maintenance of the hwy, and slopes? Why not applaud it and concentrate on other real planned "improvements" in the area that would really have serious detrimental effect on the asthetics of the canyon. By going on record as approving such a minor measure you will have a credible platform to voice a vision of keeping the canyon in as pristine a state as reasonably possible. Now if we could just do something about the out of contol bolting and manufactured routes in the area...... p.s. am i wrong-are they going to go out of the slope area to any appreciable extent?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
Can we count on you for a letter there Jebus?

Rick, did you forget to take your meds this morning? go over to the politard threads your opinion may be appreciated there.


Yes, Kenny. I would just ask they take in mind climbing concerns there and not take down developed climbs. Obviously, they wouldn't be going all the way up to the bigger climbs, but they could impact access.

People asking why Ron is reacting should consider Woodfords is his Yosemite. And, damn, the place is special!

Good luck on flashing the Led Zep Arete, Wes! I heard it was missing a bolt or two, so you better kick Footloose's ass into gear, I believe he's on the job.

At the very least, isn't asking that we climbers submit our concerns a good idea? Nothing against capitalism, just making sure Wes can continue his orgy of sends seems to warrant a little input. I wouldn't want him thrusting empty air without means of release.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:28pm PT
and Wes,, isnt an EA all that is required for the "small" operation? I did a whole timber sale beetle cut up blu lakes rd with only an EA..

No you didn't. You also had to get approval based on the findings of that EA.

and i hope you do Wes.. But the missing bolts still haven been re-installed.

Bolts, or hangers? If it is just hangers, I will be sure to bring some and rig it up. If it is bolts... I'd have to talk to the FA party before dealing with that, and I've heard he's kind of a weird old gun nut.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
Where are the overbolted and manufactured routes you speak of? I wanna check them out!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:31pm PT
I love how Rick is all for removal of granite, yet apparently opposed to bolts.

Huh?
GhoulweJ

Trad climber
El Dorado Hills, CA
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:32pm PT
I will buy some of the rocks.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
Led Zep arete could be fixed up in about 45 min. that includes the 30 second approach. we went up there in the early nineties and there were no bolts up higher then. so we toproped
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
OOOUUUUuuuuwwwch! ;-)

Rick,, what about on the way to Taqshietz?? Safe to say one could harvest all but un noticed out there for decades.

I agree with you commerce approach and harvesting, but not right above camp grounds or camping areas that are also approach starts. This isnt highway shoulder maintenance nor does it fall on Cal trans right of ways.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:36pm PT
Ron, One of the areas is at the woodcutters parking pretty much out of the hwy right of way. I built the house downstream directly down from cal trans.they wouldn't let us go over the hwy with power because it's considered a scenic corridor
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
Led Zep arete could be fixed up in about 45 min. that includes the 30 second approach. we went up there in the early nineties and there were no bolts up higher then. so we toproped


Man, I want to project that piece! There's a lot of talk on the re-bolting of that climb. FOOOOTTLOOOOOSSEEE!!!! Hahaha... For me, that will be a project though, as my orgiastic air humping is much weaker than Wes' in the scrote show of sendage.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
Kenny iv'e never paid much attention to the names of the formations but in the lower canyon is a 130' crack climb on perfect rock, with a perfectly protectable crack that is bolted every 10 feet-about 5.8 i would imagine. Up canyon about a half mile is an overhanging orange wall with artificial gym holds and grid bolted= both of these are on the southfacing side of the canyon.It doesn't bother me too much since i can easily climb the crack with natural protection and i am far from capable of climbing the overhanging wall by any combination of available artificial holds.However this practice could rob future generations of other climbs, as standards slowly rise, if carried to an extreme.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:42pm PT
Bandit crag. I forgot yeah kind of ridiculous. Footloose was looking for some stainless hangers a while back ago and I recomended those. the Epoxy wall....Not my cup of tea but since Dan isn't around to defend his project wall we can leave that one alone
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
Aye chi wa wa, I'm getting an icecream headache.

There are some bolts and artificial holds, so carte blanche on stone is called? I would shudder to think where that would leave Yosemite since chipping, bolt ladders, and crack scarring have all been part of the game there at one time or another.

Can we (rock climbers, ferchrissakes) merely agree that the goal of ensuring no harm to climbable stone is a good thing?
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
Ron, i stand corrected if these harvest areas are not on slopes from which loose rocks naturally trundle onto the hwy.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:44pm PT
I gave some bolts and hangers to Shawn i believe. But as of late fall they werent replaced yet.. 2 3/8 x 2.5 with hangers are needed..

Now,, we did discuss moving the location of the 4th bolt as not to need the fifth, but then we decided that you could clip one, or the other , or both wasnt bad either. If anyone else cares to re install them, the holes are there- i was planning on it this fall but alas i didnt getter done.

Perhaps ill get to it in the spring.


Its a gnarly thirty second approach, you gotta duck a couple of willows on the way..

Go there, feel the CHI that Dano left.. And ENJOY!





edit: Rick,, yes the Bandit crag is the bolted crack, which was done as early as 77 by moi. Undocumneted though as it was the start of a long and wandering affair we did.

The Epoxy wall was done by Dano BITD. One small chunk of feature less overhanging granite. It was highly controversial even then, but none the less enjoyed by many. It wasnt repeated elsewhere, just that single chunk in tiers of broken granite there. If you look, we believe its the spot where Bertha boulder came from. It was the 80s when envelopes were being pushed i suppose..
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
I never thought I'd see the day where Ron writes about Qi (chi).

I was just swapping stories with a guy here in NH who was on the phone with MC at the top of the Leaning Tower that fateful day. That must have been hard to swallow.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 03:51pm PT
new thread topic... Fix the Led Zep arete bolts and chop the bolts and holds on the Epoxy wall in case Sharma and Ondra want to climb there.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
nobody be gettin up the epoxy wall without those holds.

5.20 hasnt been hit yet..;^)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 03:59pm PT
Is the boulder at ~1:15 Bertha?

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 04:00pm PT
no...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 04:04pm PT
Wes, that is the boulder right on the north side of 88 just east of the hope valley store

Noah Kauffmans videos would be alot better without the crappy music and the encouragement. I have to mute them just to watch

EDIT: I should probably keep my opinions to myself
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Dec 23, 2012 - 04:04pm PT
Yeah ron, I did a long wandering climb somewhere down canyon with my little brother in about '74. Not that start or climb, but it had some pretty good sections of off width and chimney, between areas of choss and wandering, which checked in at about 4 pitches and 5.9 or so. I can't for the life of me identify the line or formation anymore.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
hehehe,, i have that exact same problem Rick! Was it up therrrree?? nooo,, i think it was that lol!

Hence they never made a guide book. Fragments of the mind totally.

And yeah,, this is on USFS property above the road- on slopes that get steep quickly. Little room for maneuvering etc etc. No way would cal-trans ever authorize harvesting for their shoulders and cuts. That WOULD require flagmen, cones, signs, arrowboards, etc etc.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
Hey Ron, The bottom line for me is This guy isn't taking a few rocks for personal use. He is taking them for profit from our lands what are we getting out of it? more parking
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 04:19pm PT
Credit: Ron Anderson


LZA bishes! ^^^^

nuttin but gorgeous sharp quartz holds
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 04:21pm PT
Kenny, that "more parking" mail fail to be as well, reclamation etc etc. You know,, like up in Leviathon lmao!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
I tried to rally back up Leviathan Mine Rd one time to find the hot springs. Got the ex's SUV stuck and carried on on foot. No places to park that I could find. Almost got eaten by a cougar. Good times.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
I just don't know which one is referred to as "Bertha." I like some of the music... and there is no doubt the dude gets busy with the boulders.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 04:51pm PT
Bertha is below epoxy wall
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
I've never seen the Epoxy wall... never looked for it either... I have an artificial wall in my garage.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
Bertha boulder is the HUGE boulder that sets right at the edge of the highway cut winter side.. Has "gabe + Bertha" - a LONG time graffiti facing the road. stands out like a huge boulder in a sand flat.Which it is..

Three main routes, a 5.8 crack to slab, a 5.12++ or A1 roof to slab and the backside 5.6 down climb..
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Dec 23, 2012 - 05:17pm PT
Smells like piss...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 05:25pm PT
huh? thats a new one on me.. But i cant say ive ever sniffed "bertha"..
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 05:33pm PT
Credit: kennyt
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 23, 2012 - 07:04pm PT
Bertha also has the retaining wall hidey hole on it's South side.

I thought Mama Cat was the more popular boulderer hang though.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
Yeah but next year that could be in somones front yard in sacto. I guess that's better than the middle of the hwy. that could get costly to remove
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 23, 2012 - 07:10pm PT
Big Bertha? Mama Cat?

Boy, that would piss off the pad people.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 07:15pm PT
I found a perfect little pink quartz fish point lying at that base of Mama Cat. It is SACRED too! BWAH!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
Been to Mamma Cat countless times. Good boulder. Never that psyched on the other roadside boulders in that canyon.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 23, 2012 - 07:19pm PT
You missed Big Bertha? Just down/up the road depending on which way you were coming for those Mama Cat trips.

It looked like there were some crimpy problems on Bertha besides the o dubs. I don't know much about the bouldering there though.

I found a cool slab problem across the river from the pullout/camping just up from the woodfords parking though. I think it hasn't been done but it's not something I'll ever do anyway. I'm sure if you're willing to haul pads all over creation you could find a lot of stuff up there.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 23, 2012 - 07:20pm PT
got its name from a little grave marker that showed up on the N side that read: "here lies Mama Cat" in the latter 70s.

Safe to say that boulder has seen a host of climbers over the decades.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 07:25pm PT
Haven't got around to cleaning this one yet. bomber rock quality markleeville area
Credit: kennyt
Credit: kennyt
Credit: kennyt
Credit: kennyt
Credit: kennyt
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 08:48pm PT
I'd hit that
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Dec 23, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
is that guano?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 09:41pm PT
I like, Guano,Choss,sharks,blood Hell I like everything.Especially the tittie thread!

Wes, Hit me up this spring there's tons of that sh#t out there and it's alot better than it looks.

EDIT: Bryce you can come if you bring the hand sanitizer.
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Dec 23, 2012 - 10:37pm PT
sick man. i'll bring the power washer too.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 23, 2012 - 10:37pm PT
If everything goes according to plans I will be super busy until I leave for the month of March in Fontainebleau!!! But when I get back, I'm always psyched to clean new stone.

I'll trade a tour of your volcanic for a tour of my unrepeated problems at Luther Pass. Definitely worth a day.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 10:52pm PT
We love to powerwash

Credit: kennyt
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2012 - 11:01pm PT
Sounds good wes, True value in markleeville is good sport climbin in the winter.
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Dec 24, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
Hi Kenny,
How's the climbing at Woodfords right after big snow dump like we just had? Climbing in sun OK? We plan on coming up there soon as we have a place to stay in Markleeville. Can you climb during the week?
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
wstmrnclmr, we probably need a couple nice day's to dry up. these photos are from today.

The Fortress
The Fortress
Credit: kennyt
Whites Wall
Whites Wall
Credit: kennyt
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 24, 2012 - 03:37pm PT
NICE Kenny!


"Whites wall" ,, named that due to the first route put up on it by Chuck Jobst in 78, the Chimney climb,, in WHITES boots!!!! The smoke jumper model they were. Talk about "trad" !;-D
wstmrnclmr

Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
Dec 24, 2012 - 03:38pm PT
Thanks for the info..We'll be up when we get a few days of sun....
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
Ron,I'm going to spend some time at whites and the orange wall this year.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 24, 2012 - 03:49pm PT
If you do,,, theres an old route we did on it called "children of the sun"
which goes up a runout slab- into a finger crack to hand crack, which is just left of the obvious roof on the right side of the crag. The first pitch ended in the crack where a obvious dike of quartz and knobbery go straight to the left.

The upper pitches were DUNG, loose and dangerous so if one were to put a nice anchor at that belay somewhere around 120' i think, that would be fine and dandy with me! Its a good one pitch climb and it could clean up, but it seldom sees any traffic up there. But no doubt theres some fine things to do otherwise up yonder.




edit: When i first met chuck, he had snagged a pair of SHOO- nards the blue aid boots and was no longer climbing in whites.. It wasnt long before i convinced him he needed to get some EBs lol!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
Credit: kennyt
Chim-Chim

climber
Dec 25, 2012 - 11:46am PT
I've seen various people collecting rocks for years. I've blocked trails that they used to get easy access to the rocks. One person with hand tools can do a great deal of damage in a single day, so a group with permission to gather rocks will destroy the area. I'm bummed but I've read Edward Abbey. Dan
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 11:57am PT
Dan, I spoke with someone from the forest service and they said they had no idea how they would monitor this project.So my guess is this 1500 tons looks good for permitting purposes but will most likely be all the rock you can collect in three years possibly extended to five.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 25, 2012 - 12:00pm PT
Exactly a point brought up to them.. How to "scale" ?? How to contract inspect?? Honor system?? Then the inevitable other folks seeing this and thinking,, hmmmm i too can snag some stone.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
I heard this has caused alot more static than anyone had anticipated. so hopefully this guy can find a more suitable place to collect his stone
Chim-Chim

climber
Dec 25, 2012 - 12:12pm PT
My buddy G-Rome said the company that is seeking the permission to f*#k up Cloudburst is called Figaroa they claim to have one employee and make 80,000 a year. They must be getting a big loan to take this project on so the plans must be somewhat concrete. Dan
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 12:20pm PT
Dan, click the link on the first page if you havent already
Chim-Chim

climber
Dec 25, 2012 - 12:30pm PT
Kenny has the Reno Gazette posted the notice? If it went out more than a month ago the thirty day window to protest may be over.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 12:33pm PT
Dan, I'm not sure but my friend at the f.s. say's that this isn't even close to being done and we should send letters to the head ranger genny wilson her address is in the link I posted
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Dec 25, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
Sorry to hear about this. But this is just the tip of the iceberg we will be seeing nationwide as counties and states budgets deplete, they will be opening up options on quarrying, mining, logging, etc, that previously would have never been on the table. Very sad times for America. Ill write a letter even though never been, hoping for the best!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
The say at the F.S. That this is a special use permit and not done for revenue just bus. as usual. I'm callin bullshit on that one if there was no money in it for them it wouldn't even be considered.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 25, 2012 - 01:22pm PT
Youd be surprised Keny.. I gave out many a "special use permit" for things like poles ( lodge pole repro) et etc, and those- at about 10.00 per cord - the only way to scale such permits..People do have use for the natual things out there, and it is our land. So i dont disagree with rock harvesting as long as it isnt in a main corridor of recreational activities and a riparian zone .
Chim-Chim

climber
Dec 25, 2012 - 01:25pm PT
Access to 130 climbs could be affected including this area
Credit: Chim-Chim
Please call the approprate parties and encourage others to do the same.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 25, 2012 - 01:26pm PT
This is what one man with hand tools can do to the base of a boulder looking for artifacts.



1500 tons of grainite is only ~700 cubic yards, which would cover an area ~100'x200' if it were excavated 1' deep. It will be deeper than 1', so the areal extent will be less. Then there are the tracks, etc. It will be a scar for sure, and may affect access.

From what I've seen, it is much easier to augment and expand an operation once it is already going. Mining operations almost always fail to implement the proper restoration measures... if there even are any.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 01:27pm PT
I understand Ron but he should have to find a more suitable location. I realize the locations he has chosen a very conveniant therefore increasing his profit margin.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
Thanks for posting that photo Wes I was thinking of doing the same.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 25, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
Yep-- its close and easy.. But then so is forestdale..;-)
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
Mark my words it's going to look like a f*#king bomb went off there.


EDIT: Ron, Could we get a special use permit for the cave?
Footloose

Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
Dec 25, 2012 - 01:41pm PT
My God, what next, a quarry?!
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 01:45pm PT
Gettin ins the hard part. once their in skys the limit
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 25, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
Kenny,, the Cave is/was NDOT property.. Ive yet to figure out why the USFS was calling policy on it. NDOT staff wouldnt ever answer me.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 25, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
Credit: kennyt
You want granite??
Chim-Chim

climber
Dec 25, 2012 - 05:04pm PT
Bump don't let this happen!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 25, 2012 - 06:19pm PT
I also sent an e mail to the district office reply site as well, in c/o the dist Ranger.

Where i expressed concerns of:


Impact on recreational activities- Climbing, fishing, camping, cyclists etc.
Importance of the Scenic Corridor- and riparian zone

The canyons advertisements in even the good sam club etc etc- magazines and sites, emphasizing the fact it is well known.

It can even be said its "internationally known" cuz i know some foreigners that have climbed there too..;^)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Dec 27, 2012 - 01:46am PT
kenny, any idea where this guy operates out of? Big city slicker from Reno?
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Dec 27, 2012 - 10:39am PT
Ron,
I e-mailed Carson Ranger Dist. with concerns of the impact to recreational
activities.
Happy to do my part,
Save Woodford Canyon!
Tad
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 27, 2012 - 10:46am PT
Wes, I think he's from Sparks
BurnRockBurn

climber
South of Black Rock City (CC,NV)
Dec 27, 2012 - 12:17pm PT
Well this just sucks. Along with chim we have seen illegal taking of granite over the years in the proposed area illegally. Probably the same people that now want the permit.
Ron I do have LZA on my rebolt list priority one. Ill get it done this spring
Shawn
Chim-Chim

climber
Jan 4, 2013 - 10:53am PT
Don't forget to contact the F.S. to stop this from happening
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Jan 4, 2013 - 10:58am PT
I wrote an email a couple of weeks ago.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2013 - 10:58am PT
Forest service contact: genny wilson, gewilson@fs.fed.us


EDIT: the original contact keith whaley has been changed
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
I bring good news:

Just got off the phone with Genny Wilson, Dist Ranger Carson ranger dist.

The permit for rock removal in Woodfords canyon WILL NOT BE GIVEN DUE TO THE OVERWHELMING FEEDBACK THEY RECEIVED ON THIS PROPOSED REMOVAL!....




A HEARTY THANKS, AND CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THOSE THAT RESPONDED!


And THANKS to Genny Wilson, Dist Ranger for being responsive to the needs of the users of her Forest....;-)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
nice
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
Sweet!
Great effort guys,
Tad
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
dam skippy guys,, we made a difference. And the USFS came through with a correct rsponse imho..
She did tell me that several responders thought they would be using machinery etc, and i explained to her that most of us knew the techniques of the harvest yet were still against it for the many reasons. I did tell her about another area that would be far more suitable. She was interested in that and will follow up after the melt. A nice Ranger to talk with really.

If you have the time, a short THANK YOU e mail to the district might be appropriate here..
Laine

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
Great work guys! I'll be sure to shoot an email asap.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
contact for Carson Ranger Dist:

click on the contact us logo on the left margin.


http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/htnf/about-forest/offices/?cid=fsm9_026972

Be sure to include Genny Wilson as the recipient.;^)
Laine

Trad climber
Reno, NV
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
Done. Thanks for your efforts, Ron. You are a true steward to the Fords!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Thanks Laine,,its OUR SACRED ground...;-) And im just one of many.. The Younger gen like Chim and company have taken the reigns quite nicely. It was a collective effort brought forth by Super Topo and CMac and KennyT for the heads up!...
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Topic Author's Reply - Feb 1, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
Ron, that is great news I just got back from the Cat scratch fever. cool route, and I like all that rock layin around where it belongs! Thank's for the follow up Ron, Good work Guy's.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Feb 1, 2013 - 06:41pm PT
We did it!

Many thanks to Ron, Kenny, and everyone who has helped.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
Cool Kenny,, glad ya like the Fever.! And thanks again for the HEADS UP ,, U da Man..
BurnRockBurn

climber
South of Black Rock City (CC,NV)
Feb 1, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
Thanks everyone...... Im amazed it was actually stopped.

Shawn
labrat

Trad climber
Auburn, CA
Feb 1, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
Many thanks to Ron, Kenny, and everyone who has helped.
x2 !!!!!
Footloose

Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
Feb 1, 2013 - 11:17pm PT
Nicely done, Woodfords Club!
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