Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 21, 2012 - 11:10am PT
Ok, all this gun stuff has got me thinking. I need some home protection.
My situation and thinking:
1. I live in a rural area with mostly burglary crimes to fuel meth purchases.
So I'm thinking something that will fit in a bath robe and can be used on a burglar. But I also want something with accuracy at range, since them Meth guys are fast and can run, even carrying a T.V.
2. I live well away from people.
Things like a silencer are not needed. Nobody is around to hear either the shots or the perps.
3. I'm not afraid of close contact interactions with perps.
Maybe a gun with a knife attached? It gets so boring out here on the sand that any interaction might be fun, and any physicality in the hallway at night probably carries over to my climbing.
4. My house is recently remodeled so I don't want to mess up the walls.
Through and through rounds might be a problem. Unless it is way clean. Last thing I want is a f*#king set of lungs pasted to my livingroom wall. A small hole I can deal with.
5. Must be able to get ammo at Walmart or Big 5
Our retail choices are limited out here. Cheap ammo would be good too.
After contemplating it a bit more.. I think Tiger pits would be the answer. They break into your house, they fall into the trap.. the tiger eats them. No mess.
Bacons good, but tigers are cool. He could have some tiger traps and some wild boar traps. Best of both worlds. Wild kingdom baby.. thats what I'm talking about.
On a different note, I thought Russ kept a passle of dirtbags in the basement making all sorts of doodads for him. Why not just have them patrol the property. Heck.. give them beer and put them out front and no one will ever think of robbing you. One look and the thief's will feel sorry for you and be making donations. Not taking things.
"Here dude.. you need this more then I do. Merry Christmas".
You are going about it the wrong way. Get some mid-eighties cars up on cinder blocks, some old bike frames, couple of old couches in the yard (free on CL), couple of pit bulls (CL again). Any kind of remodel or improvement makes you a target.
Funny, a friend and i were talking about this yesterday and we both came to the conclusion that if we found ourselves living in an area where we felt we actually needed a gun in our homes to feel safe, then it was time to move.
Russ, I think a kill stick is the best option. It's a round deployed from a basically a baton you have to press up against the meth head's offending cranium. Usually used to dispatch crocodiles and the like.
Obvious cool factors: Close quarters. Sporting in only the way a one shot device could be. Probably incomprehensible to the gorked out lil' speed bump to boot. Fires out a nice .410 shotgun shell, rendering 140 pounds of twitching hamburger on your floor without more than one self-contained wound to the old think box.
Think about it.
edit: That or the No Country for Old Men air compressor thing. You'll develop true o dub strength in no time wrasslin' with them feisty varmints while dropping them with unorthodox weapons in close quarters.
Then you can do some real x-fit workouts while you hike the bodies out into the desert for disposal.
the bullet is liquid teflon enclosed inside a metal jacket...at close range, on contact with flesh, the carnage is massive and nearly always lethal...but if you miss the slug will mostly splatter against the wall, it won't pass thru it to kill loved ones on the other side...
developed to deal with onboard skyjackers in the 1970's
- short range: pop a haulbag over their head, and dispatch with hammer. You should have some durable bags around, good for multiple uses, and this system also contains the splatter. For 2 meth heads at once, deploy the Snake Charmer. the sprinters: toss the special bolas, made with Fish hooks and funkness cables. Then saunter up and deploy the short range tactic to finish off. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolas
mounted out on the periphery of your property...
could be hell on the coyotes and other small critters though...
pretty sure you can program that rig not to shoot holes in your house, get them before they get in alleviates the need for messy cleanup of the compound...
this will also work if they try to come in from the air...
Step up Russ, don't be a wuss and come at them mano e mano brah! You don't need to go shootin on people, use yer wits and if needed, fists. Thats what I did last go round I caught some jackwad trying to climb in my house window. 3am, in nothing but my skimpies ....
...talkin to the policewoman afterwards...nearly buck assed naked....3am near naked outside in teh cool night air after the post confrontation adrenaline rush: shrinkage comes to mind....humorous to me given the arsenal I'd left back inside my home.
However on the advice part, I'd personally go with a 12 ga if I could only have a single weapon. It would be a Mossberg Mariner 590. 2nd choice the 870 Marine Magnum.They typically come with full stocks but you can put the pistol grip on it. Shooting it in that configuration will work your manliness and ain't for the limp wristed. It's for personal defense only, and no joy to practice on it. Here's my son holding the short config 870 Remington. They go for under $300 I think.
Marine magnum version I'd rather have.
If I added a pistol it would be a .45 Sig Sauer P220 in stainless. They make a couple models, the Sport N being a larger, but sweeter shooter. If you go down this road, get a nice safe with an electronic lock (fast access) to keep your stuff in. Or some good hiding spots like this clock below.
Sting. Concealable. Glows blue when Orc, goblin, or desert meth heads (basically, a ruined form of elf) are about. Made out of Elvin alloys, so probably undetectable to modern equipment.
how about my 'Trained Skunk' defense-in-depth security system:
outer perimeter consists of signs: 'Warning, Bio-engineered Attack Skunks!'
next defensive layer has trip-wire activated squirt cannons (from toy stores) hidden in fluffy skunk cuddle toys, loaded with coverup skunk scent (purchased from hunting stores), and with supplementary aerosol horns attached (from West Marine stores)
next defensive layer is a family of very friendly de-scented indoor/outdoor skunks, carefully trained to expect food from all visitors
inner defensive layer (bedroom) consists of skunk costume pajamas and mace canisters
(go for chemical weapons, as gunpowder weapons are pretty much of a big drag, due to leaving messy bodies laying around and all the explaining, press, social controversy, and legalities involved)
This looks like a real fun thread for a gun thread. I'll have to find time to read it! In the meantime what I have to add is that I keep a couple of cans of Bear Assault Bear spray hanging around - they're not lethal but man are they lethal! Ya just sorta don't know what yer gonna have time to grab (like in that prior post there)!
I don't like the AK-47 much; good for the weak minded; the AR-15 is more aesthetic gun, but after the last 2 weeks you can see that the social engineering collectivicrats have that gun front and center in their sights so to speak. Hard to argue with a Glock 9mm.
Slavs work cheap. If the Marine's Phalanx proves too costly, you could always go old school with a Macedonian phalanx. The tweakers would be totally f*#ked.
Well, sure she's taken the safety off, it's a DIY double mastectomy. I'm not sure how much tissue she's going for, but I'd call it a radical mastectomy anyway.
I did not realize she was pointing at herself. I thought somebody else was holding the guns. Now that I look - I see they are my sisters hands. She used to chase me with a knife too.
These stats apply more to urban areas, so maybe they don't apply as much to your situation:
"54% of firearm-related deaths occurred in the home where the gun was kept
70.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved handguns
0.5% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) involved an intruder shot while attempting entry
1.8% of these (firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept) were judged by police as self-defense
there were 1.3 times as many accidental firearm-related deaths in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
there were 4.6 times as many criminal firearm-related homicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings
there were 37 times as many suicides in the home where the gun was kept as self-protection shootings.
He concluded that "the advisability of keeping firearms in the home for protection must be questioned".[8] Critics of this study noted that it was restricted to firearm-related deaths, effectively excluding incidents in which gun owners used their firearm to injure and frighten away an intruder. But the study also excluded incidents in which individuals were non-fatally injured in a firearm accident, criminal assault or suicide attempt, as well as instances in which a homeowner used a gun to threaten or terrorize another member of the household, as sometimes occurs in the context of domestic violence. A subsequent Kellermann-led study identified both fatal and nonfatal injuries occurring in homes in 3 cities – Seattle WA, Memphis TN, and Galveston TX. It noted that for every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four accidental shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides. (J of Trauma, August 1998. pp: 263-267). He then developed the now much criticized 43:1 ratio that states every time a gun is used in self-defense, it is 43 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide, or accidental shooting.
The ratio was numerically accurate but, according to pro-gun groups, misleading because it compared harmful life-taking uses of guns not to life-saving defensive uses (the benefit corresponding to the harms of lives taken with firearms), but rather only to the tiny subset of defensive uses that involve killing a criminal assailant, i.e. justifiable homicides. The NRA and other pro-gun groups argued the ratio that seemed to imply a sort of cost-benefit ratio for gun ownership was actually nothing of the kind because, allegedly, it did not take account of any benefits that corresponded to its costs."
The idea is that statistically speaking, the likelihood of you using the gun effectively for self defense is quite low, compared to it being used for homicide, suicide, or accidental shooting.
I am not saying, that you shouldn't buy a gun, but be aware that even having them in the house poses its own dangers.
If you catch one on your property feel free to get medieval. I can't stand those f*#kers. They are the worst of all humanity.
Catch'em…
Gag'em…
Blindfold'em…
Tie'em down…
Start up the lawnmower….(I know…. you don't have a need for one.. that's what makes this so great….)
Force a finger or some toes into the lawnmower…. Once finger (toe) is severed, cauterize wound immediately. Think hot iron.
Then let 'em go after a sever beating.
Get rid of the lawnmower, the drag marks and the tracks and all the blood (just move around some of the sand)
If:
Meth head talks to the cops: Let him tell them how he came to be on your property. Not likely.
Meth head talks about a lawnmower: Ask cops what the f*#k you need one of them for and that they can search the entire compound. Not likely.
Chances are meth head ain't goin to the cops, and the story will makes it's way around town that there is a crazy lawnmower man (the desert's full of 'em) that gets off on torturing meth heads and none will venture forth from that moment on.
(P.S. Also consider your golf clubs, though cleaning the blood from the grooves might be tough… keep plenty of bleach and brushes on hand)
You want clean, minimal damage to the remodel, quiet enough not to attract attention?
Get a revolver with a reasonably long barrel chambered for .22LR and use subsonic ammo. Of course shot placement becomes critical as compared to the 12 ga scatter-gun or whatever. Typically a shot to the balls from behind will get 'em runnin'.
Don't fret Rambo-ettes you don't need guns for intruders just hit them with your purses.
We know you have stock piled them.Or you could load your mantyhose with pennies and flog em.
I might be partial , seeing how my last name is , but try the Chicago typewriter, the tommy gun. The trench sweeper.
It's what built the Chicago democrat party machine.
Credit: Donald Thompson
Tommy gun. It's what's for dinner .
Simple, elegant, traditional, historic, reliable, and beautiful.
Credit: Donald Thompson
Credit: Donald Thompson
Credit: Donald Thompson
Remember the cylinder mag you grew up with:
Credit: Donald Thompson
Thompson sub machine gun ...it helped to build the country you love.
Just point and sweep from left to right and back again. It'll make any meth head wish he had stuck with No Doze.
I really haven't wieghed in on any of this gun stuff. This is my only cannon in the house(no kids and we sort of live in the country)mainly to scare the foxes away from my Wifes Pugs.. In the 25'-40' methhead range though, you'll totally make your point. one cent right there.
The Taurus is pretty cool. I like the concept. Simple too, not like all these pansy ass gun modifiers running around shopping for the latest mods like they're Carrie Bradshaw at a manolo blahnik sale.
I've never seen one of these Mojave Eagles before. Thanks for turning me on to this --- all these years spent climbing & hiking in JT & I've clearly missed the best of it.
Oh, Russ I know you said you didn't want to mess up the walls ---- but forget the gun you might miss --- one gallon of high test gas will do the trick. You don't even have to be in the same room.
Since you mentioned "home" a key word for use of deadly force
being upheld. I just read a article about a Sig I think the model
is 210 or 215 but im not certain.
Its a small semi auto with a 120 grain proprietary round that almost
duplicates the 120 grain 357 magnum "hollow point" which has about
97% central nervous system take out with a chest shot noting these in
paranthesis are probably not legal in CA so a issue could be dismissal
of a criminal murder which would probably also translate to not a tort
of wrongful death if the shooting was justified. However possibly there
could be a charge by itself for possession of the hollow point?
Russ I live in OC CA. and was shot at the first time by
drive by shooters in Nohl Ranch above the city of Orange.
Its considered a higher upper class neighborhood.
I currently own none but the sig looks ok without the
hollow points if the controlled expansion rounds are
unlawful.
Though not currently ive owned dozens of guns over the
years including a AK47 ordered returned to me by a court.
I had a 10 year prohibition from a charge that does not
make sense now that ive studied it more. Subsequently
I received another charge after probation for my guns
returned to me by the police noting that charge 1 causing
the police to take the guns did not involve guns. Atorney
1 was correct about a prohibition of 10 years however
never gave to me the shall papers required by law that
stated I had to sell the guns and that I was prohibited
for 10 years due to a misdemeanor prohibition requirement
noting the 1'st charge was not for alcohol nor other drugs
either. I was in the process of selling the guns after
attorney 2 who was also paid told me I could have them
back. While in the process of selling the guns I was
arrested for a felony prohibition charge which was
prescribed as a public offense with penalty being a
fine, jail or prison. I refused a short term felony
deal and spent about 6 months longer in jail until
1 day before trial when the DA agreed to a misdemeanor
and release. This public offense is not 1 that BARS
from holding public office and from what I read around
2010 it was no longer in "the law books".
Most all who know me personally and have gone shooting with
me would probably say I was a very responsible and safe
gun owner and I can now be again without the felony.
A full WOO HOO to Russ for this troll we are thankful for, oh lord...
So, gun nutz... What's protocol after comfortably pumping some from your Bullpup into your child who crept up on you in the night after peeing their pants ?
Tough sh#t ? they didn't identify themselves while outside of the perimeter ?
Get a pig to clean up after those unfortunate jams life presents. The bacon from that hog will be extra sentimentally tasty !
What was that child thinking ? I guess there's room for Darwinism after all... Maybe not, you do have to walk the walk if you want to stand tall in the congregation.
Get a Russian. Promise a sponsorship that includes an extended stay at the compound. They can probably lead you up a full conditions ascent of double cross to boot. That would be like, free advertising from the mags.
http://ruger.com/products/gp100/index.html
This was dropped off at my ex wifes attorneys office
a day or 2 prior to the prohibition issue. I bought it
for her for Christmas as she liked my Security Six and
this is the replacement. It shoots 38 specials along
with the mags. I think the 120 some grain rounds I loaded
myself for around home pushed a couple hundred feet more
per second than the Sig and had more than the 500lb psi
but I don't have my loading books anymore to check.
They are not machine guns so it maybe possible outside of CA
for same day non registered purchases? The Sig is a machine
gun by law and probably requires the $200.00 machine gun tax
in place as I saw last and it was the same amount around 2009
as its been since the 1960's.
I was planning on going back to Idaho to go hunting.
357 was a requirement there. While too big for humans
id rather have the above for Grizzly. Tuckers rubber
would not suffice where I was going.
Really a side arm was a requirement to hunt with a rifle.
The 2'nd Russian I can't see yet, the first would die hunting
Grizzly with those. Here in the US street sweepers were/are
used around ammo dumps. Don't confuse a machine gun with a
fully auto and don't believe any military persons about them.
Anybody here ever shot anything fully auto at 223 or above caliber
in their open hands? I have and they are no good for anything.
Any lawyer in here please advise if fully auto guns are
legal for anybody in the US including military? If so
what make and model and please specify why private
militias or otherwise can't buy fully auto AR 15's
or M16's?
This S&W 460XVR may meet all your home defense needs:
Credit: Smith & Wesson
SKU: 170280
Performance Center
• Chrome Hammer
• Chrome Trigger with Trigger Stop
• PC Tuned Action
Smith & Wesson's Model 460XVR™ has the highest muzzle velocity of any production revolver on earth. The Model 460XVR™ is so revolutionary that it required an entirely new designation...XVR, X-treme Velocity Revolver. Performance Center guns originate from standard designs or are created from the ground up. From hand-cutting and fitting to fine tuning for precision, these firearms are top performers. Products from the Performance Center are the ultimate expression of old-world craftsmanship blended with modern technology.
The price isn't bad either: $1,617.oo and since it's a single action/double action 5-round revolver, is fully legal to own. Hit any human anywhere in the body with one of those slugs and blood pressure goes right down to zero. No near misses.
Any lawyer in here please advise if fully auto guns are
legal for anybody in the US including military? If so
what make and model and please specify why private
militias or otherwise can't buy fully auto AR 15's
or M16's?
you need a Federal Firearms License or as we call it an "FFL"
The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 addressed the abuses noted in the 1982 Senate Judiciary Subcommittee report. Among the reforms intended to loosen restrictions on gun ownership were the reopening of interstate sales of long guns on a limited basis, legalization of ammunition shipments through the U.S. Postal Service (a partial repeal of the Gun Control Act), removal of the requirement for record keeping on sales of non-armor-piercing ammunition, and federal protection of transportation of firearms through states where possession of those firearms would otherwise be illegal. However, the Act also contained a provision that banned the sale of machine guns manufactured after the date of enactment to civilians, restricting sales of these weapons to the military and law enforcement. Thus, in the ensuing years, the limited supply of these arms available to civilians has caused an enormous increase in their price, with most costing in excess of $10,000.
A 7.62 X 39 to me has no noticeable recoil difference
above a 223. At fully auto probably at least 10 per second the gas
buildup with other factors causes uncontrollable spreads prior to
a empty 30 round clip and recoil prior to the empty clip becomes
very noticeable.
Around 1990 I traded for or purchased a 9mm at a gun
show in Costa Mesa CA. The (*15 day wait) was in effect then.
I lawfully took the gun home much sooner and .CA didn't
have the intrusive training provisions for hand guns then.
Next door in Arizona with or without a gun show hand guns
including the machine gun as the one above could be lawfully
taken home the same day and they have no 15 day wait period.
*15 days may now be 16 due to a change in the civil laws
providing for mail times. Each county in the US is to have
a IRS office with a secretary for the machine gun tax and
registration the last I read around 2009. Im going to read
the cases about fully auto but it may take a week or 2.
I don't trust licenses if not provided for by code.
...
the sprinters: toss the special bolas, made with Fish hooks and funkness cables. Then saunter up and deploy the short range tactic to finish off.
...
Let us know!