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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 30, 2006 - 11:59am PT
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I heard about this on the radio several weeks ago so I decided to try it out after a little research. Some Eastern European woman broke the 10,000 meter world record by 30 seconds and was accused of being on steroids. She tested negative and told them she took Cordyceps to help her recovery time after workouts. Sounded interesting. I've been taking it for a couple weeks and I definitely notice some kind of energy boost. It also seems to give me some pretty vivid dreams at night.
Anybody out there tried this stuff? What's the real deal? cheers, jb
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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May 30, 2006 - 12:09pm PT
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I heard that it leads you to believe you can solo any 5.12 you want to, but you will die of brain cancer sometime in the next 50 years. I would be really worried John.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2006 - 12:15pm PT
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Ain't gonna' happen... the solo part that is!
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matisse
Trad climber
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May 30, 2006 - 12:23pm PT
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Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2004 Mar;36(3):504-9.
Effects of a commercial herbal-based formula on exercise performance in cyclists.
Earnest CP, Morss GM, Wyatt F, Jordan AN, Colson S, Church TS, Fitzgerald Y, Autrey L, Jurca R, Lucia A.
Center for Human Performance and Nutrition Research, The Cooper Institute Center for Human Performance and Nutrition Research, Dallas, TX 75230, USA. cearnest@cooperinst.org
INTRODUCTION/PURPOSE: We examined the effects of a commercially marketed herbal-based formula purported to increase endurance on oxygen consumption (VO2) in 17 competitive category III/IV amateur cyclists [mean (SEM) age: 31.1 (1.8) yr; height: 178.5 (1.8) cm; weight: 77.1 (1.6) kg]. METHODS: Each cyclist participated in two (pre/post) cycling tests progressing 25 W.4 min(-1) starting at 100 W administered in a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind fashion. The second trial was performed 14 d after the ingestion of a manufacturer recommended loading phase (4 d x 6 caps.d(-1)) and a maintenance phase (11 d x 3 caps.d(-1)). Three treatment capsules contained 1000 mg of Cordyceps sinensis (CS-4) and 300 mg Rhodiola rosea root extract as the primary ingredients; 800 mg of other ingredients included calcium pyruvate, sodium phosphate, potassium phosphate, ribose, and adenosine and 200 mcg of chromium. RESULTS: Using a 2 x 2 ANOVA, we observed no significant treatment effect for any between or within group variables including peak VO2 [treatment 4.14 (0.2) L.min(-1); placebo 4.10 (0.2) L.min(-1)], time to exhaustion [treatment 38.47 (1.7) min; placebo 36.95 (1.8) min], peak power output (PO) [treatment 300.00 (12.1) W; placebo 290.63 (12.9) W], or peak heart rate. We also observed no differences for any subpeak exercise variable including the PO eliciting 2 mmol.L(-1) blood lactate (BLa) [treatment 201.00 (18.1) W; placebo 167.50 (19.2) W] and 4 mmol.L(-1) BLa [treatment 235.88 (15.8) W; placebo 244.78 (14.9) W], ventilatory threshold, respiratory compensation point, or Vo2 L.min(-1) gross efficiency at each stage. CONCLUSION: A 2-wk ingestion schema of a commercial herbal-based formula is insufficient to elicit positive changes in cycling performance.
3 others with the same findings on pubmed. I didn't see anything for sprint or anaerobic type performance.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 30, 2006 - 01:23pm PT
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Interesting stuff. Here's a story off the CDC website
"In the jungles of South America, there is another dance between ants and parasites. The parasite is a mushroom. Beneath tropical canopies, spores of Cordyceps, a mushroom, are whipped about on warm equatorial breezes and spun between tree trunks and twisting vines until they land in the spiracles of black ants. Spiracles (holes in the tough exoskeleton of ants) allow ants to breathe. Cordyceps uses the spiracles to get beneath ants’ skin.
Once inside the ants, the fungus attaches to the soft tissues and begins to raise a family. For a few days, everything is fine, but the fungus knows that it will need more than the ants can provide. Soon, deep within the ants, the fungus will achieve sexual maturity, and it will be time to sporulate. Once again the infected ants, driven by the new-found energy of sudden acrophilia, leave the relative safety of the earth, climb atop the grass, clamp their mandibles onto the tips of the green shoots, and hang there.
The fungus then consumes the ants' brains and sprouts through the emptied skulls. Bathed in sunlight, once again, the fungus sporulates. At the grass tops, where the wind blows freely, the spores are quickly spread, sometimes for miles and always to other ants. The fungus has lifted itself from the primordial slime, gathered itself upon the wind, and set off, once more, for a new life. Other varieties of Cordyceps mushrooms parasitize and alter the behavior of caterpillars, mealybugs, and beetles. Fungal madness. Infectious insanity."
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 30, 2006 - 01:46pm PT
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Dang you Bachar for distracting me when I'm supposed to be doing my spring gear marking.
Lots of interesting info in this article
http://alohamedicinals.com/Cordy_Article.pdf
But the kinda sick bit is this:
One of the simplest and most reliable tests used to determine whether a compound can increase energy
output or decrease fatigue is the mouse swim test. In this test, two groups of mice (or rats, or dogs, or
other animals) are used. One group gets the normal diet and the other group a normal diet with the
addition of the test substance, Cordyceps in this case. After a period of time on the test substance, the two
groups of animals are put into a steep-sided container full of water from which they cannot escape, a five-
gallon bucket for example. That way they are forced to swim. The time-to-exhaustion is measured for the
two groups and compared. If the group receiving the test compound swims longer than the group on the
normal diet, then it has been determined that they had increased energy output and/or decreased fatigue
than the other group. Many trials of this nature
have been conducted using Cordyceps and
invariably they show that the use of Cordyceps
significantly increases the time to exhaustion in
the test animals.
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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May 30, 2006 - 01:57pm PT
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Why would you believe anything these marketers publish? Seems the diet supplement suppliers are as morally bankrupt as our politicians. In fact, if they didn't own those politicians you would probably not be able to purchase 99% of what they market.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 02:25pm PT
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matisse and baba:
great stuff!
thanks.
shorty T:
no doubt bro, my wife is a performance athlete and given to all manner of suplementation and i'm right in there with her.
i am circumspect for sure.
those marketers will claim all kinds of unverified woo-woo.
the whole supplementation industry had a chance to be regulated and as a group consumers put it down, perhaps for good reasons, but the outcome is we can get all kinds of stuff at a lower price, but it's presented with all sorts of un-verified purported benefits.
*might be less expensive than otherwise if it had been regulated, but this comes with the risk of injesting substances which potentially deliver zero beneficial outcome*
'nice thread JB.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 30, 2006 - 02:27pm PT
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Personally, I don't take anything these days although I'd be open to trying something that could contribute something healthy and positive.
Who is advocating blind faith? Are you saying all non-prescription substances are bunk? Or just herbs and vitamins? or all drugs? What's the rational criteria to use?
Peace
Karl
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 02:44pm PT
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i'm not advocating blind faith karl.
(assuming you were replying to my post).
i'm saying i use all kinds of vitamins and herbs and it's not so easy to verify claims.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 30, 2006 - 03:30pm PT
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Naw Buster
I was replying to what I felt was Shortimers blanket statement.
Lots of bunk stuff in the Pharma and Herb fields.
Sometimes in the supplement field it seems they sell a snake oil for a few years that's supposed to cure anything, then it's gone.
On the other hand, I've also heard that even among prescription drugs are have value, they often only work on 40% of the folks they are prescribed for. Naturally, this varies by the drug.
In between, it's pretty darn obvious that certain substances can enhance performance in different ways. The question is: Which ones have healthy side effects rather pesky ones like impotence.
So I'm open minded to this Cordyceps stuff cause the Sherpas eat it and they are bad ass, and a cursory search doesn't indicate danger.
Plus Bachar is pretty damn old and still cranks OK so he might be on to something.
Peace
Karl
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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May 30, 2006 - 03:38pm PT
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Chew coca leaves and lime, like the indians in South America do.
I've heard that works.
Sort of.
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hardman
Trad climber
love the eastern sierras
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May 30, 2006 - 03:52pm PT
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bacher
word has it Cordyceps work better if adminstered in the rectum.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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May 30, 2006 - 04:01pm PT
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So the Bachar brain is going to dissolve like ants?
Dirt, are you stalking me?
Tang Off Man!
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matisse
Trad climber
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May 30, 2006 - 04:19pm PT
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On a related note...
you gotta like the placebo effect. We all too often view it with disgust instead of recognizing that it really exploits aspects of the brain body connection that we don't at all understand.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 04:51pm PT
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placebo?
no doubt matisse.
oops, in my case maybe too much doubt.
almost none of these vitamins and herbs work for me.
negative placebo effect?
the stand out exception is niacin: i definitely get a capillary flush.
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the Fet
Trad climber
: morF
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May 30, 2006 - 05:24pm PT
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If anyone's going to sell it, it needs a better name.
Cordyceps is also known as Chinese caterpillar fungus.
Who's gonna take Chinese caterpillar fungus? Eww.
Consider Epimedium's other name, Horny Goat Weed. Everyone with a limpy wants that.
So Cordyceps needs a cool name too, like; super lung serum, or pump you upitude.
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matisse
Trad climber
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May 30, 2006 - 05:29pm PT
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Tar,
Although I wasn't commenting on your experience, I didn't articulate my point too well. Let me try again:
Many interventions/drugs/etc that are tested against placebo show an effect on the condition that they are used for, but the problem is that placebo also has a beneficial effect that is of the same magnitude as the thing being tested. Most of us interpret that as the interventions/drugs/etc is not effective, without really considering the placebo side of the equation.
Think about it. You give some one a pill with some type of inactive ingredient like sugar in it, something they ingest every day, and then tell them that this substance is designed to fix your xyz problem or enhance your performance in ABC and it does. I think the placebo effect is fascinating.
But I think it is supposed to work even in skeptics too.
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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May 30, 2006 - 05:56pm PT
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Karl -- why are you ignoring the pink-frosted donuts as performance enhancers?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 05:58pm PT
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matisse,
I did get it on your first go around and I as well find it fascinating.
my joke about the negative was a nod to the strength of belief system, which has something to do with placebo effect, as i understand it.
(donuts do have a limited performance enhancing effect, especially when the propulsional element of flatus is factored).
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G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
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May 30, 2006 - 06:22pm PT
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Karl, I did not mean to imply that there are no unregulated substances that are successful in treating something, sometimes. However, most of the time you can't tell without really careful personal research because the literature that's out there is so often bogus. I would also agree that most pharmaceuticals only work some of the time and are actually harmful a lot of the other time.
What I meant to say was that the dietary supplement marketplace is full of lies that would 'probably' not be perpetuated if this field was better regulated, and if the people selling these supplements actually had to scientifically prove the efficacy of their products.
At the same time I am the posterboy for better living thru modern chemistry. As anyone that knows me would avow, I am in immensely better shape and look 10 years younger than I did a couple years ago, all because of the meds I take.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 06:24pm PT
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suppository cordiceps; its whut's fer breakfast blinny.
'nice to have you aboard, i think bachar has already wandered over to another thread...
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 30, 2006 - 06:25pm PT
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I've conducted prolong and extended studies on chocolate chip cookies but, like global warming, I can't say conclusive data of non-effectiveness on fitness is yet proved.
I could still get in shape one of these days and if I do, I'm sure it the cookies.
Peace
Karl
If you were an ant, I'd stay away from Cordyceps through. In that PDF file, I did find a debate over whether the fungas kills the Ant and eats it's brain or if the Ant first dies from something else and that's when the fungus eats its brain.
Which came first, the supertopo or the eaten brain?
PEace
Karl
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pyro
Trad climber
Ventura
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May 30, 2006 - 06:33pm PT
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just ask the HUber Bro's what they think. They will give the real answer.
or, after the study tell us how you feel.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 30, 2006 - 07:16pm PT
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Shortimer, your last post was entirely reasonable and I mostly agree.
I just needed to comment so folks don't get in the habit of throwing the baby out with be bong water.
The most important thing I learned at the university was critical thinking. We should apply it to everything with the caveat that critical thinking and negative thinking are two different issues.
Otherwise some smarty pants says the world is not flat and we can list a few reasons why it obviously is.
Cept around here, nothing is flat.
PEace
Karl
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Robb
Social climber
Flathead Valley, Montana
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May 30, 2006 - 07:16pm PT
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I thought that OE800 was the standard performance supplement?
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2006 - 08:08pm PT
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The butt thing didn't work as planned - I'm not getting the same kind of energy boost I experienced when taking it orally....just kidding.
Really though, it seems to give me a definite energy boost and I feel stronger throughout the day even through my afternoon workout. I'm just wondering if anybody's experienced any negative reactions (or positive) with this stuff. I use the stuff from 'New Chapter MycoMedicinals' which says it's certified organic, 500 mg. per capsule. I take it in the morning 'cause I took some in the afternoon once and I couldn't sleep at night.
I dunno, it sounded interesting so I'm trying it. So far so good - the jury's still out! jb
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matisse
Trad climber
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May 30, 2006 - 10:14pm PT
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Sorry Tar, a little dense today (me not you).
JB, I never discount the n = 1 personal experience. If it works- great. The issues and problems that I see with herbal remedies are that they have just as great a potential for side effects as conventional medical treatments and often are not as well studied, and are most often are self prescribed, so the potential for problems is there.
Whether or not something is organic is kinda beside the issue. For example I could feed you organic foxglove and kill you, because the active ingredient in foxglove - digitalis has profound effects on the heart. In addition because the herbal trade is so unregulated you can been getting some very nasty contaminants in your herbal remedy.
This is not to say that I'm anti herbal some are quite useful.things like Ginko for AMS and garlic for mild hypertension come to mind.
Just good to be aware of the issues and risks as well as the potential benefits
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 10:31pm PT
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yes obee wan yano bacharo:
new chapter, that's the company whose products we ingest with glee, including the mushroom.
(link upthread to new chapter)
Lisa says japanese elite distance runners favor some sort of secret weapon mushrooms.
hey karl said:
"don't get in the habit of throwing the baby out with be bong water"
man ain't those great words to live by when it comes to good livin' and critical thinking. funny too.
Matisse:
the chinese dr. would say that western herbal approach is little distinguished from regular western pharmacology, when it comes to relevant side effect.
(don't quote me, i'm not quotable)
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2006 - 10:42pm PT
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Tar baby! If Lisa says it works that' a good sign - she's definitely bad azz...I still haven't been able to dig up any bad reviews on the stuff - doesn't mean much I know. That "Breathe" supplement looks interesting as well...
How about Kombucha mushroom?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 10:53pm PT
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actually bachar,
"breathe" is what we use, along with ginger, as recommended.
she also has straight cordyceps.
i just quizzed her harder on results: she stands by the japanese reportage, says she may not be doing enough cordyceps mushroom herself to get a real notable return.
now, we drink that kombucha in a fermented beverage product almost every day and she does get a definite kick out of that. she craves it. she needs it.
i just do it cuz maybe it works, like all other supplements affect me, or knott.
she uses as reference: "prescription for nutritional healing" - phyllis and james balch MD. (phyllis is a clinical nutritionist)
penguin putnam
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WBraun
climber
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May 30, 2006 - 10:57pm PT
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Hey Bachar
Phssssssssst hey man? You do that sh#t?
Hahahaha remember that stuff you put on your shoulder years ago, some horse medicine and you fainted.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 10:59pm PT
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hey bachar, i just nipped a hangnail a tad, and now it's bleeding.
steady...
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 30, 2006 - 11:01pm PT
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WB! Yeah the DMSO stuff...whew. I must have blacked out for a whole minute - woke up all bathed in sweat. Never tried that stuff again.
This stuff's different - so far!
But like I said it does seem to give me some bizarro dreams at night. Tar...you guys get any weird dreams too?
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 11:17pm PT
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no weird dreams man.
lisa takes it before races and hard training, not every day.
you might be doing it more regularly from the sounds of it, which might load it better.
i've been putting dmso with msm onto my elbows lately. no effect.
hey; here's the things that effect me noticeably,
booze,
weed,
niacin,
humor.
that's about it so far, but i'm all ears.
i still take gobs of supplements, mostly based on nutritional foundation and i feel pretty good.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 30, 2006 - 11:31pm PT
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ok,
i like the free exchange of ideas, but this is getting heady.
let's take a break:
i feel better now.
thanks for humoring me...
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PDHMAN
Trad climber
Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395
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May 31, 2006 - 12:18am PT
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The Cordyseps work! Bachar, I live down in Crowley and bike 150-300 miles a week, climb hard, do fast Alpine stuff around the area...bottom line, they are great for Recovery and the Immune system for anyone doing long distance and endurance stuff. It has been in use all over Europe for the past ten to 15 years in the pro cycling circ and the East Germans/Russians incorperated their use for all their athletes, in the 60's. You need to be consistent in the dosage and take them daily. I take 1000mg per day! Buy them on-line, www.TheVitaminShop.com has the best deal going!
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2006 - 12:21am PT
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Will it slow down your breath?
Will it slow down your heart rate?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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May 31, 2006 - 01:49am PT
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I used to brew the Kombucha. Even took some on a wall or two.
It definitely had some effect like perking me up in the morning, but not extreme (or toxic feeling) like coffee.
Seemed to have a diuretic effect though, Not sure it wouldn't interfere with your hydration and nobody says it helps fitness.
You have to be careful brewing Kombucha cause toxins and bad mold can form if you let it get anerobic on you.
Lots of stuff is snake oil, I agree. A good round of Psylium husks and colon cleansing herbs is a slam dunk-really works- feels better kinda program though.
I've never tried Niacin on it's own.
And Saw Palmetto really does help shrink the prostate.
Peace
Karl
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hardman
Trad climber
love the eastern sierras
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May 31, 2006 - 09:00am PT
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blinny
it was meant as a joke like all my posts are. i was trying to be funny something i'm inept at
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PDHMAN
Trad climber
Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395
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May 31, 2006 - 10:22am PT
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WBraun:
Will it slow down your breath?
Will it slow down your heart rate?
For me, living @ 7100', it has allowed me better "OXYDIZATION" at altitude, the higher and harder I put out in my cycling climbing efforts and fast Alpine appraoches and climbs. No, it doesn't affect my Heart Rate. It really has improved my RECOVERY after my extended hard efforts. I combine the daily dosage with L-Glutamine for the Recovery and Immune process that is severely broken down after hard efforts.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 31, 2006 - 10:40am PT
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hardman:
i don't think we missed the joke.
well, maybe Karl might have (hehe)
eKat Ballerina Valentini Nijinska Uber Babe?
Like you think just because we didn't pin smiley faces all over your pink panther, like, we didn't find that gesture adorable?
now go look at my "scrambles amongst the rockies thread" all lonely and forlorn now on page two. hasn't been coddled since werner got all huggy on it...
(PDHMan)(Nice reportage Bro)(Lisa also raced in 2 tour de feminin de france, something americans don't typically even know about)(We road ride nothin' but hills out here in the Colorado mountains, do lots of long days baggin' peaks and will apply your cordyceps dosage -Thanks)
(FYI- last time Lisa asked me out on a training run, I had been Blowin' Bongers, Doin' shots of Grappa. I went out wearin' jeans with wallet still in 'em and completely blew her off:: that doesn't ever happen but seldom, i like the story though).
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 31, 2006 - 10:44am PT
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PDHMan:
Are you familiar with the mail order products, favored by cyclists, offered by "Hammer Nutrition"?
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PDHMAN
Trad climber
Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395
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May 31, 2006 - 11:07am PT
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YUPPER!! Steve Born and Dr. Misener have formulated premier and phenomenal training techniques and ingested food/supplement formulas for ENDURANCE work. Word from HAMMER is that they will be coming out with a product similiar to "Optygen" which combines both Cordyseps and Rhodiola Rosea. HAMMER products rule! Been using their stuff for the past seven years! Great "Hometown" Customer Service also. www.ecaps.com or www.hammernutrition.com
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 31, 2006 - 12:25pm PT
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alrighty then,
hey-
does your handle acronym stand for: Pretty Darn Hard Man?
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PDHMAN
Trad climber
Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395
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May 31, 2006 - 12:31pm PT
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OH YEAH BABY!!!! It goes for many assets in many regards.
It pays to be "HARD" in many venues of ones life.
And, I learned many years ago that...
"IT PAYS TO BE A WINNER!" And in order to do so, one needs to learn mental and physical "HARDNESS" in order to be a good "SUFFERER" and finish the race in style. Winning doesn't always mean coming in first...that's another story.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 31, 2006 - 02:00pm PT
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Yes we use hammer products too.
"Sustained Energy" is one of my faves.
"Pretty Darn Hard" was also something Bridwell suggested as a phrase component to a rating system.
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PDHMAN
Trad climber
Eastside N of Bishop just S of 395
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May 31, 2006 - 02:11pm PT
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I KNOW...PDH and (You're Dead For Sure)YDFS are my favorites. The "Bird" incoporated the rating system on the FA's of SHADOWS, ZENITH, THE BIG CHILL & BUSHIDO. These Routes will definitely
MYSYPFS(Make You Sheeet Your Pants For Sure!). Right up my alley, HEE HEE HEE!
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 31, 2006 - 03:15pm PT
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TOTH to you eKBVNUB.
Hey by the way I think I was there the day Yabo made the "10" comment about you in Yosemite, or at least heard about it. What a darling he was, eh?!
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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May 31, 2006 - 05:07pm PT
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Bachar,
Here is a forum where you may be able to get some answers:
http://www.drsquat.com/forum/index.php
It's Dr. Fred Hatfield's (Dr. Squat) site. You may remember him from his powerlifting exploits in the 70s and 80s.
I've been able to get a lot of info from there about exercise and nutrition. Todd Wilson and Dr. Squat are both great resources there.
Enjoy!
burp
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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May 31, 2006 - 05:25pm PT
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Nice burp thanks.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2006 - 11:41pm PT
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burp...good site! yeah I remember him - whew. Nothing on Cordyceps though... Those Anabolic Steroids look interesting however - even better than Coryceps! (just kidding)
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burp
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Posted a message on Dr. Squat asking about Cordyceps ... we'll wait and see what turns up. I know someone there would have some experience or academic knowledge of it.
Enjoy!
burp
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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I first encountered Cordyceps in the Rolwaling Valley of Nepal, a Sherpa community just west of the Everest region at the foot of Gauri Shankar. I made a study of medicinal plants there and was told about a half animal, half plant creature whose name in Sherpa (yer tsa gum bu) translates literally as "summer grass, winter worm". Eventually, the Sherpas produced some dried specimens which were indeed dried caterpillers with two thin strands of what looked like grass, but is actually the Cordyceps fungus, coming out their head.
On the internet, Cordyceps is sold as a "mushroom". What you're really getting however, is ground up dried caterpiller with a little fungus mixed in. The Sherpas sell it for cash, since it brings in a lot and they told me that some old men took it as an aphrodiasiac.
Make of this what you will.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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why are you ignoring the pink-frosted donuts as performance enhancers?
Damn! I thought it was the buttermilk bars.
No wonder it hasn't worked.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Actually Jan, Most of the commercial cordyceps is made from cultured mycelium. Grown in petri dishes or something.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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About that caterpillar fungus
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25731281-401,00.html
POLICE are investigating reports that seven men were killed in a remote area of Nepal as they searched for a rare fungus known as "Himalayan viagra".
Yarsagumbar, or caterpillar fungus, is a rare species of parasitic fungus known for its aphrodisiac qualities and found in only a few remote parts of the Himalayas and the Tibetan plateau.
It attracts a high price on the international market and is in particular demand in China, where it is used to treat a vast range of ailments, from kidney disease to tuberculosis.
A group of villagers reportedly set upon the men as they hunted for the prized substance, which can only be harvested for a few weeks of the year, around 160km west of the capital Kathmandu.
"We have sent a team of security forces into the village of Nar, where seven people are reported to have died when they went to the area to collect a valuable herb called Yarsagumba," home ministry spokesman Navin Ghimire said.
"Police have made a few arrests in the district."
He did not say when the men disappeared, but the fungus, which grows on the larva of a species of moth, is usually harvested in June.
It is a major source of income for some small communities in the highlands of Nepal, where schools shut down for the brief harvest season.
Geez. you'd think that after they invented real viagra, that folks would stop chopping up sharks, killing each other over bugs, or ravaging the rhinoceros in Africa.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Karl .... Happy 4th, just read the first couple and last couple posts of this Thread. Seriously, did they really eat the ants brain ?
Better than viagra and much more controllable.....our pharmacy makes an injectable prescription drug that comes in a variety of strengths for ED. It's called Quad ES. We've never had a customer not come back. Works great. Jess sayin'.....lynnie
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Wayno-
I've never heard of commercially grown Cordyceps but it make sense as supply can not keep up with demand. I wonder who pioneered the method? The Chinese?
Meanwhile there's still a big market for the original product and people getting killed over it?!
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Paul Stamets at Fungi Perfecti cultures several medicinal fungi and he may have been the one to figure out how to do certain species.
The Chinese use many different fungi for medicine and sexual tonics, along with antlers and genitals of certain animals. It's strong juju for them, and they go to great effort to acquire them, so it's not surprising that folks get killed over these things.
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