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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 13, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
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Anyone here ever kayaked it? I have kayaked it twice and rafted it once. All three times from Lyons Camp to Filmore. I want to go back this spring and try it again but this time with my Alpacka Raft and take more tome to explore. All previous trips I have done I was so concentrated on getting down the river without dying that I feel I missed out on what the canyon really has to offer. Any other pack rafters here who might be interested?
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curt wohlgemuth
Social climber
Bay Area, California
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Dec 13, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
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These are cool photos -- thanks for posting! I love that area...
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 13, 2012 - 02:56pm PT
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Batrock, you got me interested in the Alpacka rafts. I don't have one yet, but thinking about it.
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John M
climber
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Dec 13, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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There use to be a warm spring in there. Anyone been to it? Its been years for me. It never really got hot, but it still felt good.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
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A few more pictures of the Sespe.
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otisdog
Big Wall climber
Sierra Madre & McGee Creek, Ca.
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Dec 13, 2012 - 04:08pm PT
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I might be up for it. What size raft did you use?
Last time I was there we walked into a pool of oil during the night.
large trout.
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Sredni Vashtar
Social climber
The coastal redwoods
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Dec 13, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
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your dad helo'd in to bring you kfc??
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
California
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Dec 13, 2012 - 04:52pm PT
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huh, you must be the 4th person in CA who owns an Alpaca.
I've got one, always looking for PR partners.
holla
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Dec 13, 2012 - 05:02pm PT
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Bat.... yes large boulders are everywhere....
One needs to be very carefull when accessing the river at the start by Fillmore.
A person who is not at all friendly, says he owns the river....
you must call his bluff about calling the sherrif...
as long as you stay in the river, your legal.
say hi to the condors.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2012 - 05:08pm PT
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Guyman,
I never had to deal with the property owner in Filmore, put in 35 miles upstream and and take out at the 126 bridge in Filmore. I am familiar with the property issues there and we stay on the water until the bridge. Piru Creek has some similar property issues that I have dealt with, the local LEO has always sided with the kayakers and are pretty cool about it all.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Dec 13, 2012 - 05:29pm PT
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nice thread!
great classic historical archived pic's.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2012 - 05:34pm PT
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Otisdog,
We used a 10 foot self bailer last time I was in there. Way to big and heavy to portage around some of the nasty drops encountered. The pack raft seems perfect for a trip like this, lightweight, easy to portage with and can easily carry a few days of gear. I used my pack raft for a 6 day self supported trip on the Green River 2 years ago and it handled the gear with no problem.
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John M
climber
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Dec 13, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
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One needs to be very carefull when accessing the river at the start by Fillmore.
A person who is not at all friendly, says he owns the river....
LOL, yep.. I ran into him a few times. I had access through the oil fields. Can't remember his name. Anyone remember it?
Does anyone know if a suspension foot bridge over the river on this mans property was completed. A friend of mine was building it many years ago. I helped him string the cables.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Dec 13, 2012 - 05:45pm PT
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Sespe = one of So CA's best spots. We hiked Filmore to Lyon's, also encountered the agro property owner but got through by being polite and agreeing that we ought to call the Sheriff to clear things up. He told us we weren't worth it and that was it.
Some killer cliffs for jumping back there. Most quiet and best night skies I've found in non-desert So CA.
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John M
climber
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Dec 13, 2012 - 05:51pm PT
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He use to let people go through no problem, then sometime in the late 60s or 70s the "hippies" started trashing the place and he got tired of cleaning up the mess and became an angry old man. It was more like "white trash" trashing the place, but I threw in the hippies comment to get Blue going. haha..
Yep.. great rocks for jumping and some incredible waterfalls when it rains.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Dec 13, 2012 - 06:18pm PT
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looks like a blue Dancer,
that can be a hardcore run at high water,
the red boat looks like an old hydra but not sure,
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Dec 13, 2012 - 06:25pm PT
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For anyone going back there please be respectful of the place. Pack out trash if you see it. It was recently decided that tar creek should be closed because people have trashed it...luckly the sespe has no trails and a protective land owner at the end of the river...but if the closure of tar creek drives more people to go up the sespe from fillmore and start trashing the place it too could be shut down to protect the frogs and condors and keep the trash and stupid humans out. I love the sespe wild and its secret nature part of which is a lack of information because it is so rarely traveled or talked about and i hope it stays that way. That said I'd be game for a raft trip.
EDITED: because I wrote in haste and wanted to correct and clarify.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2012 - 07:23pm PT
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Matty, you sound like you would be a great big ball of buzz kill to have along. Just kidding, kind of. I agree that it is a special place but its innaccesability alone keeps most of the yahoos out. I have seen a drop off in use in that area over the years not an increase. I know part of that is due to campground closures in the upper reaches near Lyons Camp and Rose Valley. A thread like this on a forum like this poses very little threat to the area or I would not have posted a request for partners. Sespe is well known in the kayaking community but rarely run, most disregard it because of its proximity to So Cal. Those that have run it understand that it ranks right up there with just about any multi day run in the Sierra Nevada. If you want to blame someone for bringing attention to the place you should blame Chouinard, it was a picture of him kayaking Sespe back in the early 80's that drew me to explore the area. He had shots of his trip hanging on the wall at Real Cheap.
Upper Piru is another great little river to kayak, Frenchman Flat to Lake Piru is one of my favorite all day kayak runs. Like Sespe, once you leave the put in there are no trails along or into the river and you have 15 miles of class 3-4 water between Frenchman and Lake Piru. Above Pyramid Lake are some fun sections but there is much more impact in the way of mines and roads along the river. Still a great area to boat.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Dec 13, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
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i picked up local legends charles foster and keith dinger after a failed attempt at the upper kern, water was too high, anyway, they were hitch hiking down from the forks of the kern, and they told me about sespe creek, here is their trip report:
http://www.ptone.com/Kayak/sespe/
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2012 - 09:01pm PT
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Drspock,
Foster and Dinger were guys that was in contact with during the early days of creeking in Southern California. Others were Glen Tronnis and Gary Valle. Early on the interweb was not available to check on local creeks, when it rained we would load the boats up and drive into the mountains. Big Tujunga Narrows was a popular run and pretty sketchy when running it for the first time, there were a few drops that were blind and once you entered the narrows there was no turning back, a high commitment level run. Arroyo Secco from Switzer Falls to JPL is another great run with lots of cool waterfalls and slides to run. There were and still are very few kayakers who run any of the creeks south of the Kern River.
To those whom I may have offended by talking about Sespe I am sorry. The intent was to try and find people of like interest who might be interested in running this amazing river. I am as aware of the uniqueness of the Sespe as anyone and would never intentionally do something to bring harm to it.
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Dec 13, 2012 - 09:34pm PT
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Bat-
Let me clarify...I was NOT trying to single you out for starting the thread, or talking about the sespe and I'm not offended. I have seen the many photos you have posted in other threads about the so-cal rivers and know you love the place as much as anyone and would never do anything to harm it. I'm sure anyone who would go kayaking back there would be the same. I was just trying to put in a kind word for the sespe for anyone that read this and decided to go check it out on their own (unlikely as that may be).
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Dec 13, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
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Pack rafting is in it's infancy. Roman Dial and Erin McKitrick (sp?) have done a lot with these little boats.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Dec 13, 2012 - 10:38pm PT
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that creek run is "self protected" by the fact that there are only a handful of kayakers crazy good enuff to run it, and the conditions have to be just right for the 3 day trip, plus the tar thing, plus the kern is just up the street,
i see gary valle at the moke races he is pretty good and a great climber also.
i bet tompkins flew robbins and the french dude over sespe creek in a piper cub or something,
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Anxious Melancholy
Mountain climber
Between the Depths of Despair & Heights of Folly
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Dec 13, 2012 - 11:20pm PT
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Bat rock,
Would love to join you. You mentioned wanting to take more time (3 days on past trip) how much time and when in the spring?
AM
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2012 - 11:31pm PT
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Sprock,
I used to kayak quite a bit with Valle and did a early descent of Brush Creek with his son Brett.
It's funny you mention a flyover of Sespe. Prior to my first run down Sespe I tooka few gallons of Baskin Robbins ice cream over to the air ops unit of the fire dept. I work for and asked one of the pilots who I had camped with a few times to take a training flight up to the Sespe. I brought my video camera and we filmed the creek from top to bottom, crabbing sideways to get a good camera angle. This was in 1991 and an OK boater but not super solid. The other two guys I talked into going were complete novices but I was so intent on making this run that I told them it was a piece of cake and that if anything was too hard they could just walk around. Well, we spent 5 days in the canyon, 3 days boating and 2 days hiking and swimming out to Filmore after ditching our boats. We were down to a few granola bars and no flashlights. We thought we would make it out of the canyon by the evening of the 4th night, we hiked til midnight down canyon, over and under boulders path lit by 2 Bic Lighters that we brought. We ended up hiking out late the next day.
All three boats that were left behind were mine and there was no way I was hiking 15 miles in and carrying them out. I was considering chartering a helicopter but the cost was way too steep and I didnt want to ask my buddy at air ops who flew me in to film it, at least not yet. One day i get a phone call from Ventura County Sherifs Dept. They were doing a routine flight up the creek and spotted the boats and picked them up. My name and number were on the boats. The pilot was said he had the boats at the airport but if I wanted to finish the run he said he would fly them back in and was sorry for assuming I wanted the boats. What an answer to prayer, I brought the requisite ice cream and a few fire dept Tshirts as a thank you and drove out to pick up my boats. It seems all my trips down Sespe have involved helicopters in some form but that was the only time they were used as a form of rescue tool thankfully.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Dec 14, 2012 - 11:45am PT
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matty that tar creek aint no secret!
it was featured in some climber video back in the 90's.
i don't have the time to go all the way out there i'd rather go out to sespe black wall instead.
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 14, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
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Roman Dial and Erin McKitrick
Also Forest McCarthy
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2012 - 12:18pm PT
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Matty, I'm sorry for coming off the ass. I was having a rough day and took it out in the wrong way. Pray for a Pineapple Express winter so we can all go and enjoy what The Sespe has to offer.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Dec 14, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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I kayaked the sespe maybe 5 years ago. I have done a fair number of high sierra multi-day whitewater trips, and I can honestly say, that the sespe was one of the most memorable and adventurous trips of my life. The runable drops were generally IV affairs but with plenty of class V sieves for those sick of shouldering their boats. It took me 3 years of eagerly watching flows to hit it right (with one trip skunked by a closed road). The whitewater is nowhere near as good as many of the sierra classics in terms of difficulty, runability and portage counts, but the scenery and remoteness were unparallel. It is little wonder that so many trips have resulted in helo rides, due to the incredibly rugged canyon, the creeks proclivity for breaking boats, and the dangerously fickle water levels. Being deep in the wilderness has never felt so isolating as there, with the feel of LAX jets whizzing overhead contrasted with the magnitude of the complete inaccessibility of the gorge. There are hot springs and tar seeps everywhere.
Tar creek is cool, I have hiked down it on one occasion, but the real grandeur of the canyon is further downstream toward devil’s gate where the river turns south. Only swimming betweens sides of the river will provide passage on foot. Backpacking into sespe hotsprings, I met a guy who had hiked up from Fillmore and reported great steelhead fishing, though I do not know if I believe him. Steel head running up the santa ana sounds quite improbable indeed.
That canyon has, as one person put it, the sequoias of the boulder kingdom. They are massive and everywhere, the wall of the canyon are littered with giant purple boulders perched ready to be dropped at any moment. The tar is bizarre, and real (bring paint thinner for the take-out). The portages are as arduous as the bottom 9 of the middle kings (upriver from yucca point). The rock is like shark skin grabbing your slippery plastic boat like hitting a wall, and nearly every decent drop has a F-U rock in it to make it less palatable. The water is murky with sediment, so judging depths of drops is also dubious if you appreciate your ankles.
So with all that said, if no trails are put into the canyon or through it, there is little reason to fear for it spoiling. There is another canyon in that area, the upper piru, that has a similar feel, yet is much more tame in terms of scenery, logistics, flow, and difficulty.
Here is a write-up from someone else’s trip we used as a guide.
http://www.ptone.com/Kayak/Sespe2/
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2012 - 03:11pm PT
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Justin01,
Thanks for sharing. On the last kayak trip I did I had a vertical entrapment on the first day and nearly drowned. Shook me up quite a bit but was able to pull it together for a very successful descent. Talking with Rocky Contos a few years later I learned he pinned in the same spot on a previous trip. It's a serious place to have a accident, one would be royaly screwed.
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justin01
Trad climber
sacramento
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Dec 14, 2012 - 03:30pm PT
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I remember feeling very exposed there. We definitely ratcheted back our enthusiasm for class V and walked more than a couple drops which we wouldn't have worried about under road side accessibility.
The remoteness there is astounding.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Dec 14, 2012 - 04:00pm PT
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Rocky is pretty hardcore, ask him about the cataracts of the kern,
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
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Sprock, I somehow got mentioned in this early write up out of the Sierra South website. I did some very early descents of the Cataracts but as the write up says communication was sparse back then and it's unknown just how many and who was running what back then.
Kern Below Democrat (Cataracts of the Kern)
Please Note!
Cadillacs - Richbar - Cataracts - KR1
"The Forest Service "discouraged" boating on the Kern Below Democrat Dam until 1995. Even so, the run now known as the Richbar Run was done from time to time by local boaters and visiting dignitaries such as Lars Holbeck.
Keith Beck, with boating partners Phil Martin and Glen Troness, began probing the Kern below Democrat in the early eighties, and around 1984 had done most of the Kern below Democrat, including the stretch below the KR1 powerhouse. Keith reports,
"None of us ran Quadruple Whatever. I used a Sabre (!!!!) for some of it, and a Rotobat (Pyranha) for some parts, and a glass CKS Needle for some."
Keith also noted that communication was poor among boaters (no Internet!) and that others, including Mark Richey and Kevin Mokracek, were running some sections of the Kern below Democrat at about the same time."
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2012 - 05:04pm PT
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While we are talking creeks I'll show some of my old creeking pics from back in the day.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
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John M - Hiked in to the hot springs one time. You're right - really pleasant. Except for the guy in camo who was cutting down trees with an assault rifle. And I never saw so many rattlesnakes on one hike in my life.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Dec 14, 2012 - 10:43pm PT
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Big T narrows looks full value.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
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Big T is a lot of fun, word of warning, if it looks even a little on the high side do NOT get on it.
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John M
climber
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Dec 14, 2012 - 11:28pm PT
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And I never saw so many rattlesnakes on one hike in my life.
LOL, yep.. lots of them back there. That can be hard country to get into. I had more ticks on that trail then any other place I have been to. Between the crotchety old guy, the long hikes, the hot weather, the rattle snakes and the ticks, that place is pretty well protected from being overrun.
Anyone seen the waterfall coming off of bear haven, the plateau to the west of the sespe ? That plateau is mostly rock and very little soil coverage and when it rains it all funnels off of it in mostly one place. The falls gets pretty big. I have done a little bit of traipsing around that plateau, but only a few days worth.
Nice pics Batrock. Thanks for sharing them.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Dec 14, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
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Keith Beck was the other guy i picked up with charlie and the other keith.
those guys have toned it down but the middle feather story in AWA is pretty good,
those guys have done deer creek also, charlie got an elbow job on that one,
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Dec 15, 2012 - 01:00am PT
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John M
climber
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Dec 15, 2012 - 01:03am PT
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Ah.. thanks for the pic.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2012 - 09:17am PT
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Bear Haven looks incredible. If I can find it I have footage of a fly over I did of Bear Haven that had intrigued me for years. It reminds me of an island in the sky, kind of a mini Angel Falls type area. All kinds of mini canyons and slots. Would love to explore it some day.
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miwuksurfer
Social climber
Mi-Wuk
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Feb 14, 2014 - 11:21pm PT
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If/when we get some water I'm totally down to hit the Sespe. Been on my radar since backpacking back to the hotsprings.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2015 - 06:35pm PT
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Bump, pray for rain
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jan 29, 2015 - 02:44pm PT
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Sweet old school kayak pics
Looks circa 1990?
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Jan 29, 2015 - 02:57pm PT
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huh, you must be the 4th person in CA who owns an Alpaca.
I've got one, always looking for PR partners.
so question re Alpaca... I've used the Supai which weighs a 1.5lbs.. flimsy little piece of fabric but gets the job done at much less the weight. Do you find the Alpaca is worth the weight because of greater maneuverability? Looks like some hydraulics on this run.
OP..do you think this run is maneuverable in the pack raft vs the kayak? Or is it simply balls out ride down? Most pack rafts are suggested as flat water boats, right?
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youngharz
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Jan 29, 2015 - 05:53pm PT
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Cool Thread! I was up near Devil's Gate in '05 after a massive flood event re-worked the whole canyon. I believe this was right after the boulders washed down from Tar Creek. I wasn't a boater then, but I think we must have been up there during one of those rare times the Sespe was runable.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jan 29, 2015 - 08:25pm PT
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Last time I was there we walked into a pool of oil during the night.
That might be the same tar pool I rapped into descending Yeager Canyon. Yuck.
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Guernica
climber
dark places
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Jan 29, 2015 - 08:51pm PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]LuckyPink, I'd love to hear what the OP has to say, but these guys are taking packrafts well beyond flatwater.
Been thinking about getting one myself so I've researched it a bit. Not inexpensive by any stretch, but they look fun as hell.
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2015 - 02:22pm PT
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I have done it twice by kayak and once in a 10' SOTAR self bailing raft. The Alpaca raft is head and shoulders above any other "pack raft" IMO. It's not much heavier but it is much stiffer and punches through hydraulics better and carries weight better. The first 10 miles would be a lot of walking as the river tends to be wider and shallower with more opportunity to put a hole in your boat. The remaining 20 miles the river channels up and gets really fun. I wouldnt run a lot of the stuff I do in my kayak in a pack raft but a good portion of it would be runnable. I would look at it more like a canyoneering trip with a pack raft. hard stuff would be easy to portage with a pack raft compared to a kayak or 10' raft.
SLR, yes those kayak shots are mid to early 90's. I think the first time I ran Sespe was in a Perception Corsica and the second time was in a Perception Overflow, both considered creek boats at the time but are huge by todays standards.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Jan 30, 2015 - 03:14pm PT
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thanks for the posts. all I can say is BooF!
guess sespe gets on my list.
The Alpaca is 6lbs heavier than the Supai and it has a deck skin. Nice feature.
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