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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:16pm PT
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Very true. This past summer as my very experienced partner and I were about to start one of our raps off a route. He was about to launch off, when I looked at his system and saw that only one loop of his rope was through his ATC into the biner. No, I didn't always chack before, now I do.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
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Wow, Cragman and I posted in essence the same story--different incidents--simultaneously---just goes to show the validity of the OP.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
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... before each and every lead.
But what about the Topropers - They get no partner luv?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
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My old El Cap partner and I started being waaay more vigilant about this a few years ago, which we never did in the way back machine.
I've been much more hardcore about this with all partners since around 2006.
I even started a similar thread a couple years back, but I called it "Safety Pledge" so Donini was a hater. It really befuddled me.
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ladyscarlett
Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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I have to admit....i am rarley moving so fast that I can't check, even if it's non verbal.
Once, I took over a lead belay from a complete novice, who had never belayed before while the leader was a third up the route. I asked the leader to show his stuff and low and behold, the rope is only threaded through the bottom tie in loop of his 2 loop harness. Blowing it off all the way to the top, back to the ground and after, he insists it's 'not a big deal'.
Since then, I always check before my leader gets too far off the ground..
..and don't climb with leaders who don't to listen to my paranoia.heh.
cheers
LS
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
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It's about saving a life any way one can, you weed-clouded bozo.
Move this one over to the supertopo quotes thread, HA HA HA!!!!
Fuggin' Dean, yer ok man!
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
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I was climbing with an older British friend a few years back, the kind of guy with a twisted sense of humour. I was about to climb and said "In diving they teach you to do a buddy check but we never do it in climbing"
Jon says "Thats because climbing is supposed to be dangerous"
I always check my knot a second time when I get to the first clip just to make sure. Probably a good habit to get into.
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Michelle
Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:38pm PT
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I always check. Always. Too easy to blow off.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
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It's about saving a life any way one can, you weed-clouded bozo.
...your stereotyping is offensive to weed-clouded bozos.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
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Dingus, we're going climbing sometime, that's it.
I like people that are interested in keeping me alive.
No offense glue huffer.....BWA HA HA hahahaaaa!!!
Edit: I'd go climbing with Crag too, but he wants me to lead some 5.7 in Tuolumne with no pro for 150 ft....... :0)
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:47pm PT
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You guys are giving me an idea for a 'toon about the relative merits between a safety check and a safety meeting.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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I'll go climbing with you Locker, but I get to be the boss of safety checks!!
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ninjakait
Trad climber
a place where friction routes have velcro
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:52pm PT
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You guys make me chuckle.
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:52pm PT
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i am quite glad that locker and crag feel so moved by this subject that they both need to actively bump this thread. i have been laughed at before for double checking everything but it aint no thing, compared to other results
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
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for a second there...I thought I was at the Deli...
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 11, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
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I've been a guide and instructor. I check everything all the time. It is habituated in me. It doesn't bother me in the least to have a relative noobcomer ask to check my tie in.
I still say "buckle up" to my kids in the car even though they know I will say it and they probably already did. What harm is there in vigilance?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:00pm PT
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Like Cragman and Alan Rubin, I caught a partner just as he was leaning out to start a rappel with only one rope through his ATC
And like them I understand the importance of doing this kind of checking.
However, unlike Cragman, I have a sense of humor, and would happily climb with Locker any day.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
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That somehow reading this thread would have made a difference???...
It wouldn't have...
Brother, you running low on something? You ok?
Maybe if people were double checking the day that Woody died?
No offense man, but what is wrong with reminding one another that we should dummy check things?
Are you so safe that nobody should ever consider checking again, when their life is in the cards too?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
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DanaB
climber
CT
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
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saw that only one loop of his rope was through his ATC into the biner
Did the same thing this year. First rap mistake in 41 years.
Christ.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
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But we are NOT at the crags...
But this is where I LEARNED about Woody's accident, and Lynn's accident, and Largo's accident, and Owens Gorge, and and and and.....
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
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this is a worthy PSA.
thanks, DMT
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
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Can't we all just hit a bong? Uh i mean check yer nots!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:18pm PT
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Dean's a daggum PITBULL today!!!
I actually LOL'd. Did you know that research shows that most people who type LOL don't actually LOL at all?
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
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I am now going to ALWAYS do a partner check. Also, I am going to test my partners to make sure they have less than 5 nanograms of fog in their systems before I tie in with them.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
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You've got a good sense of humor Locker, and always come back for more in the banter box.
I like that in a climber.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:31pm PT
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You can mis-mail the brownies over here next time dude. I have a friend who knows a guy who asked about.....
I'm a post sleuth. Where'd this one come from?
"This accident was initiated by a communication breakdown and finalized by not following good proceedure"...
Worth REPEATING...
Call it the...
"Woody Check" or "Just-a-check"...
But ALWAYS...
CHECK and Communicate with your PARTNER...
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ninjakait
Trad climber
a place where friction routes have velcro
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
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Locker I think Dad would say something to the effect of:
"Seems to me that it is sage advice to remind those reading here since you all seem to spend more time online than outside."
Just saying... What Would Woody Do? :)
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
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I pretty much triple check every time. I always felt like if I was going to bite it , it would happen doing something stupid.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:42pm PT
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Checking yourself and partner is fuking SUPER IMPORTANT!!!...
But doing it HERE, is pretty much USELESS...
Do it where it really counts!!!...
Phuk man, last I checked, (which I do often) nobody was advocating checking each others knots online you shoelace checkin' Knucklehead!!
Wait, .....one of your laces is undone.....
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10b4me
Boulder climber
Somewhere on 395
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:53pm PT
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I have a sense of humor, and would happily climb with Locker any day.
so would I, but only if he shared :p
locker, check yourself, and your partner, or don't.
to paraphrase the late Rob Slater, "either way you win"
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Dec 11, 2012 - 02:59pm PT
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Safety check? Is that like a quick safety meeting?
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Valerio
climber
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Dec 11, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
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holy words DMT, especially in the indoor walls where occur many climbing incident.
Valerio
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Dec 11, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
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I seem to climb with people who face the climb, put shoes on, tie in, and then look back and say "you good.....climbing".
No chance to see the knot until I stop them and ask them to show me the knot. I wish I could say I check every time before they leave the ground but it does not always happen.......
Thanks for the reminder. I will do better.
I have had a partner arrive at the first belay with a harness not properly doubled back. Scary!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Dec 11, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
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Like Cragman and Alan Rubin, I caught a partner just as he was leaning out to start a rappel with only one rope through his ATC
I feel I saved a life when 3 of us were on a cramped perch preparing to rap, the girls boyfriend was in between me and his girl who was squatting on her heels and preparing to rap. He was yap yap yap. I stopped him mid yap with a finger up in his face and a verbal "EXCUSE ME". I squeezed my head around him to check her just as his girl was unclipping her daisy in preparation to leaning back. I immediately stopped her when I noticed that although the ropes were through the device, and the biner was locked and through the ropes, the biner wasn't attached to her harness...AR ALL! She would have augered into the dirt. I spent the rest of the time on the perch berating and verbally discussing this very issue and other safety things until she was down and off and it was his turn to rap.
As far as climbing untied, I have almost done it, maybe 35 years back. One of the stronger climbers in the state and I were taking turns trying to lead some unclimbed crack that looked to be at least 5.12. (he could lead 5.12 and wasn't getting up this one) I'd made a great run at it and lowered off exhausted and pumped out of my mind. Buddy started enthusiastically shouting "get back up there man - you had it you had it YOU GOT IT! So after catching my breath, I did, not noticing that I'd almost completely untied when I was on the ground in all the excitement. I got back up and was just under the hard part and noticed the floppy rope...opps, it was partially tied enough so that as I lowered/downclimbed the 5.11 part (I wasn't going to lower off on it the way it looked) it stayed tied.
I'm with Dingus. I always double check myself, and my partner.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Dec 11, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
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I've posted this before, but my closest call was probably the time at the Needles, after lowering off a failed lead, I followed the same pitch with an unfinished knot. I seriously thought about calling take, but mercifully pushed through. J saw what was up and rather than panic me, kept mum as I neared the belay and then grabbed my belay loop and clipped me in when I was within reach. I sat at the belay and cried, and then we ended the trip and went home. I've felt really differently about taking and lowering since then, and even if I checked on the ground, I still often check myself before letting go, at least at the beginning of a gym sesh when I'll be on the rope a lot.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Dec 11, 2012 - 03:47pm PT
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
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Dec 11, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
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It happens. Especially in the gym, I find myself needing to be paranoid.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
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Larry always double checks Larry when Larry's alone.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:10pm PT
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It's about saving a life any way one can, you weed-clouded bozo.
locker,
looks like you are once again bringing out the christian in people....how do you do that?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:16pm PT
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WTF, Double Standards? Here on the ST Forum? Really?
Seems almost hard to believe.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:23pm PT
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Locker, don't you have an imaginary friend?
No, not imaginary. Inflatable.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
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what's imaginary is the likelihood that it is a "friend"
(I'm just posting to bump this important thread )
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Dec 11, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
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Phuk that climbing alone crap, I'm not that interesting by myself.
But if I WAS ALONE?
Larry always double checks Larry when Larry's alone.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Dec 11, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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Hmmm. Some pretty heated comments going up here. I do enjoy the argument, but also worry about the name calling, etc. We're all on the same team folks.
Now to the topic at hand. Seems to me I first noticed people not using the "am I on belay?" routine sometime in the mid nineties. I don't know an exact date, but I'm guessing it came with the surge in popularity that climbing had about that time. Now a days I rarely hear partners ask the "questions" that I grew up with. Questions that I call "the contract". You all know the one. "Am I on belay?, Yes, yer on belay. OK, Climbing. Climb on!" So simple. And the perfect time to do a knot check. (yep, yer knot is good so yes,yer on belay...)
Really bothersome (to me) is when I see someone who's been climbing a long time not doing this. I've been told "we've been climbing together for so long we don't need to ask". Utter BS!!!
I too have carried one too many out, and just can't understand why you would neglect such a simple task as checking yer pard, and asking to make sure of what's actually going on.
Let's play nice folks, And Check Each Other!
And, we're all gonna die!
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Dec 11, 2012 - 05:47pm PT
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Too many mommies. I got it, don't you worry.
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Michelle
Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
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Dec 11, 2012 - 07:42pm PT
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I never ask if I'm on belay. I ask if I'm on display. Very critical distinction.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 11, 2012 - 07:55pm PT
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I never ask my partner to check my knot. If I can remember to ask someone else to do that, I can remember to check it myself. That said, I'm always checking my partner's belay, knots, anchors and everything else. And... every time I start to climb, belay, lower or rappel I recite, C.B.B.L.A.K. It stands for:
Check
Buckles
Belay
Landing
Anchors
Knots
...and all that those concepts and skills entail. Almost every sport out there uses the nemonic devices to remember checklists. Why don't climbers do this?
Climb safe,
Mal
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Dec 11, 2012 - 08:00pm PT
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I make it a habit to double check myself and my talking partner. If I'm lapping, I check my knot and their belay device between goes.
Check
Buckles
Belay
Landing
Anchors
Knots
You don't know boulderers.
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Gene
climber
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Dec 11, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
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I haven't read the whole thread but i have a 'shut up' rule while putting on the harness and tieing in. No distractions allowed/given for me or my partner(s).
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 11, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
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I don't know boulderers? Huh?
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Dec 11, 2012 - 08:14pm PT
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ne, that's a great idea. Respect the process. I think the relative danger in a climbing situation is proportional to the number of people around. The more people are around, the greater the chance of being distracted.
If someone is tying in, let them tie in. If they're belaying, let them belay.
Climb Safe,
Mal
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