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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 9, 2012 - 07:31pm PT
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I guess everybody says something controversial sooner or later and gets copiously dumped on. My turn.
I have an uneasy feeling about a route close to The Nose being called “The Real Nose.” As opposed to what? The False Nose?
If someone announces he’s climbed the Nose, one might ask, “The Real Nose, or the other one?”
I have a feeling there would be a bit of an uproar if a new route near the Salathe was called “The Real Salathe”, or one of the routes on Sentinel were called “The Real Steck-Salathe”. Or a slight alternative on Everest’s West Ridge were to be called “The Real West Ridge”. You can imagine all sorts of others.
The point is that calling a route “The Real...” connotes that the original was false, or somehow lesser.
I suspect that what is being called The Real Nose is a superb climb, harder than The Nose and maybe more direct, and I don’t think there was a conscious denigration of the original route when it was named. But “real” carries a negative connotation for the original. I think I’ll call it what it’s also known as, the Competitive Edge, just to soothe my delicate feelings.
Thoughts?
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enjoimx
Trad climber
Yosemite, ca
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Totally Inappropriate
It's just WRONG
Let's just rename it. Case closed.
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WBraun
climber
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You think too much.
Modern people over think everything and unnecessarily tax their brains where there's no real reason too .....
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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^^^^^
according to the duck no one climbs the real Nose anymore
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
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What about that other route, "The False Shield"? Does that mean the "real" Shield is more worthy?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The original west ridge route on Everest strayed away from the upper ridge into the Hornbein Couloir. When the Yugoslavs did the ridge itself, it simply became the west ridge direct, which seems apropos.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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^^^^ Werner ^^^^
Modern people over think everything and unnecessarily tax their brains where there's no real reason too .....
 leads me to believe that Werner is neither Modern nor a big thinker. He wouldn't want to tax his brain for no real reason…
Classic.
The Nose
Vs.
The Real Nose
Does it matter when you can climb either to gain the summit of El Cap?
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
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Thanks, Werner! Long time since I've been called "modern"!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I think he called it Real because it goes more up the actualy point of the south buttress of El Cap, as opposed to The Nose which goes up the most natural line, but wanders around a bit.
I also believe he prefers it known as The Competitive Edge.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Was the Nose of El Cap called the Nose before Harding et al. named their route?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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If there is an iconic climb in American climbing history, it is the Nose: no protection needed, status assured.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 08:14pm PT
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I remember hearing called the Prow, the Nose, the SW Buttress. Perhaps Harding fixed the name on it.
The Nose Direct seems like an option. But whomever climbed it has the call - just thought I'd stir things up a bit. Harding sure as hell would have!
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Park Rat
Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
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I have to agree with Wayne on this one.
Harding would've blown a gasket at the thought of someone knocking off The Nose title.
Why not call it call it Not the Real Nose Route or something to that effect.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Wayne-The name Real Nose was never something that Charles Cole and I ever discussed or agreed upon and it came into existence because Charles wrote a survey article about El Cap and needed a name. He had done a solo near the Shield, mentioned in the article as the False Shield which though suitably hard at A5, didn't quite work out higher hence the name.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=924488&msg=931725#msg931725
We had discussed the Competitive Edge and it caught on with the 5th pitch which we named The Head of the Charles after the rowing event. I have pushed the Competitive Edge as the name for the route because we both left it out on the field for the next party. Difficult free climbing and some spicy aid combined for a really satisfying experience. The last of our routes together.
The Competitive Edge and the Central Scrutinizer climb the prow of the Nose directly and I have always had a fascination with that most airy part of the Captain. These routes are both about position and the desire to be out on that edge.
When I did the Central Scrutinizer with Jay Ladin, we reached a spot that was so perfectly exposed that I rapped all the way down to the end of a rope at days end and pushed out from the wall as hard as I could in a naive attempt to see all of El Cap at once. It was still too rounded but I had a grand time bouncing around trying! A much longer rope might have done the trick.
So in closing, no disrespect was intended to any part of the Original Nose route or any of the personnel involved by having this route deemed "Real". It was not about comparison and more a question of editorial convenience.
Nothing short of REAL about you gentlemen, your line or your effort.
There can be only one NOSE on this Captain.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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The real nose:
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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I grew up to "Goodnight Mrs Calabash, wherever you are." One of my dad's fav tv programs.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Anyone have a picture with the "real nose" and the nose drawn in?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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"Ha-cha-cha-cha!!" [in reference to Jimmy Durante on the previous page]
Funnily enough, I was flipping through cartoons on TV today, and happened to catch Auggie Doggie and Doggie Daddy. The latter was modelled on The Schnozolla, much the same way as Fred and Barney were modelled on Ralph and Ed.
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richross
Trad climber
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How about Nosey Neighbor? :-)
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Onewhowalksonrocks
Mountain climber
portland, Maine
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I always thought the name was based on location.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 11:06pm PT
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Park Rat is right - Harding would have been hunting someone down at what he surely would have seen as a knockoff. I can hear him now, after a half-gallon of Pedrizetti red or a couple bottles of Vino de Tavola - “X!!#&x3!! Everybody’s out to get Harding!!” Then he would have started to look for something more dramatic.
Steve - no sweat - I was sure no negative connotation was intended, especially since there seemed to be two names. Thanks for the history. I envy the “Real Nose”, “Competitive Edge” experience - must have been awesome exposure.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 10, 2012 - 11:37am PT
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“Sometimes I sing so pretty, I like to break my own heart.”
A singular talent to be sure as NOBODY else sounds like Jimmy D.
I envy your experience being first ones to voyage on up there into the wilderness that it was.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Dec 10, 2012 - 12:14pm PT
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This is a false thread.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Dec 10, 2012 - 12:26pm PT
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Hey, Wayne. The first dump's always free.
They get you used to it, you start to think you like it, then you are fuched and hooked.
You are just like the rest. You know you want it, you just gotta take the leap.
"Real" is the new "normal."
There are hundreds of "Normal Routes" in the alpine world, why not rock climbing.
Why not "Reality-based Figments of the Imagination That Would Have Gone Had I the Nerve, Time, or Wasn't So Wasted"--the cragnostic in me says go for it.
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Park Rat
Social climber
CA, UT,CT,FL
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Dec 10, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
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Hi Wayne,
I assume that only the original climbers can change the name The Real Nose.
That said if it were my choice I would rename it in your honor.
The Merry Way or some such name.
Then all concerned would be happy.
I can hear Harding saying, that's a good idea let's drink to it.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
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Hey, it's good like it is. It won't go away. Let's let it go now.
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2012 - 01:46pm PT
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When they originally named it the real Nose it made sense.
It's way out there on the outer upper dihedral along with follows straight up the "Nose" of the Captain.
It didn't take anything away from the original "The Nose" route either to begin with.
It's stupid Americans that make stupid problems where there never were any to begin with ......
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 10, 2012 - 01:49pm PT
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It's a national pastime...LOL
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Dec 10, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
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Just a clarification Werner, but what nationality is on your passport? I know you're a citizen of the karmic universe, but what do you show when crossing borders?
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WBraun
climber
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Dec 10, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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what nationality is on your passport
I don't have a passport anymore as I don't have enough money to go anywhere these days.
I never did have any money to go anywhere a passport is needed to begin with.
Everywhere I went where a passport was needed I was working for a film production.
But when I did have one it said I am a stupid American ...... :-)
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richross
Trad climber
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Dec 10, 2012 - 02:18pm PT
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How about Nostrilman? :-)
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Dec 10, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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Modern people over think everything and unnecessarily tax their brains where there's no real reason too .....
I asked a cave man from 10,000 B.C. who gave it a lot of thought then agreed.
He said to call it "ug."
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
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Dec 10, 2012 - 05:16pm PT
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Hey, not for nothin', but I HAVE the Dolt's nose...it's an original reproduction.
HA! (That was bad, I know.) But I couldn't help myself. :D
Long day stuck in a chair @ work...
Edit:
The Sinus Route!
OMG, someone get me off of this overcrowded, stuffy, overheated, meandering-like-a-lost-cow commuter bus creeping along the Mass. Pike...please?????!
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 07:32pm PT
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Okay - since we're getting ridiculous and having fun with it, how about La Nariz Real?
Or maybe The Septum?
Or since it is right up the middle of the Nose, The Vomer? In that case you could call climbs which articulate with it The Sphenoid, the Palatine, and you could call the major crack the Nasopalatine Groove.
Of course if we started to lay anatomical names on climbs, things might get a little out of hand...
Yeah, I know, Werner. Stupid Canadians!
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
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Dec 10, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
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Climber OF Fossils,
I was just about to write that you just made me snarf (that last post is a riot), but for some odd reason thought I should probably look it up just in case, before I posted. Good thing I did. I have apparently been using it wrong my entire life. Eh-hem. But, since we're on the topic...I can't seem to find the antonym of snarf...which is kind of what I intended to begin with, but out through the nose...good thing I invested in the screen protector for my iPad. :D Off to the Urban Slang Dictionary to see that I can "dig" up.
(P.S. Especially after meeting you @ Oakdale, I'm definitely NOT buying the "Fossil" part!!!)
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