Buttermilks poop house? COME ON WTF?

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mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 9, 2012 - 02:12am PT
Chitty hole man, the milks are getting HAMMERED with poop. Seriously folks, we have GOT to work with the BLM to get a pooper up there. The arguments I have heard for not putting one up there are:

1) it would destroy the scenic beauty of the area if it was in the upper parking lot

2) it would be too far away for lazy ass pad people if it were in the parking area below the Poobodies.

3) it will lead to development and pay camping.

Those are lame ass arguments considering how many people are camping out there (expanding campsites, destroying vegetation) and shitting all over the place (within 20 feet of campsites and boulders many times).

So what's up? Is anything being planned or even discussed?

Obviously I'm not the person to do it, I have no organizational skillz and nobody likes me.

Do any hordes plan to mob the place (Pretzl, etc)? If so, it would be great if we could convince them to help spearhead a composting or even pit toilet. I'd be happy to pitch in.

I asked our father CMac to resurrect me only because I felt this needed to be addressed. The only thing I could find is from Mr. Wills last year... http://bishopbouldering.blogspot.com/2011/07/buttermilk-pit-toilet-comments-needed.html.


Don't leave this hanging... come on!
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Dec 9, 2012 - 02:19am PT
Roger that.

Is Lesley Yen still with the FS?
Does her email still work?

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Dec 9, 2012 - 02:28am PT
mechrist?

weschrist?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 9, 2012 - 03:33am PT
On the CMac front, my personal experience trying to communicate with him about bannings is he plays the man behind the curtain very well. Complete radio silence when I attempted to, anyway. So, you are resurrected? Or is this just a stopgap?

Good on ya either way, Wes, I missed you around the campfire here. The fact you actually participate in the real climbing community should count for something. I hope the project goes forward.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 9, 2012 - 03:35am PT
There were sites & a proposal awhile back on Wils blog I think. U mean getting bad like there's sh#t in the main areas? This fall I was disappointed to see so much sh#t near the boulders, I'd love to catch a scene like this in the act. It's unfortunate to see such beautiful places can go to sh#t so easily. The bishop situ is especially sad since about 100% of the offending shitters are traveling climbers & the local community is a really great, dedicated group of climbers that have to come up with these solutions. Maybe the local access group could set up a volley day over the holidays or thanksgiving when there's lots of visitors & shitting predicted & hand out shovels to the visitors in the Bday lot & get one dug, I'm sure BLM would be willing to listen? Maybe a sign in english/french/german? at either entrance could help in the meantime & easily done by one able bodies individual. A crag near here has had sh#t problems in the past from travelers who didn't get it & now there's no sh#t signs everywhere & they seem to be helping. The milks is one of my favorite places in the world & I've been lucky to spend some of the funnest days there, i hope for those that are lucky enough to have this place at their disposal can find a way to effectively deal with this sh#t.


Edit- didn't see the link up there.
telemon01

Trad climber
Montana
Dec 9, 2012 - 06:39am PT

wag bags, everywhere, every time

at least until the government comes to our rescue

Silver

Gym climber
Dec 9, 2012 - 09:31am PT
How about YOU TAKE your own poop tubes, wag bags and or 5 gallon bucket with a seat on it up there yourself. Why in the hell does a toilet need to be in there. That results in a pumper truck once a week or more up there.

eKat

Trad climber
BackInTheDitch BackInTheDirt BackInTheDay
Dec 9, 2012 - 09:51am PT
Hear! Hear!

Ya know. . . there are a lot of climbers who are babes in the woods and know nothing about how to conduct themselves out there. Every climber should be required to the a Girl or Boy Scout for at least a year before they're allowed to venture forth into the UNDEVELOPED!

For outdoor based recreationists, some climbers and most Alpine skiers SUCK when it comes to preparedness!

Duh!
dave

climber
Earth
Dec 9, 2012 - 11:17am PT
People could start by leaving they're dogs at home!!


EDIT:
And what Silver said, I don't want a toilet up there, figure out how to do it responsibly!


DOUBLE EDIT: Have you seen the 'outhouse' in the central gorge lately? Well the door has been f'd up for several years, you could lock yourself in there, and the toilet went to not having a seat on it for a few years, so you had to hover and drop, NOW there is just an empty building with a hole in the floor, the whole stainless toilet rig is no longer there.
this just in

climber
north fork
Dec 9, 2012 - 11:24am PT
Sh#t yeah, good sh#t to see the weschrist is back from the dead. When in bishop I do all my shittn at schatts. Coffee, cranberry muffin, then to their clean bathroom.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 9, 2012 - 11:31am PT
That's not even honest dirt bagging. That's just plain irresponsible.
I don't understand how one could care so little. What 'generation' do these people belong to?
The Sh!thead Generation?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Dec 9, 2012 - 11:38am PT
How about simple composting toilets like at smith rocks?
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 9, 2012 - 11:45am PT
Its just the sheer volume of use that makes a shitter of some kind necessary. Place is busy as sh#t and just getting busier. Something needs to happen to accommodate the whole bouldering boom before it becomes out of control and is too expensive to manage. Id rather see the honey sucker truck going up and down the road than see sh#t on my shoes as i wander around looking for a place to sh#t.

Better yet, go enjoy one of the many many other bouldering areas. Plenty of room to sh#t all over the place.
Chinchen

climber
Way out there....
Dec 9, 2012 - 11:50am PT
There are plans, it is being worked on. Please be patient, the locals are....
The most logical place for it is in the first turn out right below the pea bodies. I will not allow a shitter to be placed in the birthdays parking area or in view of the boulders.
ruppell

climber
Dec 9, 2012 - 11:59am PT
I will not allow a shitter to be placed

Are you trying to say it's your decision?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 9, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
Hey Wessie!



Sorry to hear the milks are in the shyt. But it was bound to happen- pebble people being so prolific these days. Do people bring PADS there now??
Lurking Fear

Boulder climber
Bishop, California
Dec 9, 2012 - 12:03pm PT
I'm with Jason. The Birthday Boulder area is the worst possible place at the Buttermilks. Upwind and in one of the most beautiful view sheds on the Eastside. I hope it's his decision. Thanks, Andrew
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Dec 9, 2012 - 12:04pm PT
In the meantime...

1. Go to any local agency that might listen.
2. Beg for wag bags. It's a good case. They get given out free all the time. Almost every ranger danger station has them in abundance. Even if it's not BLM they might be willing to help.
3. If unsuccessful, contact wag bag manuf.
4. On any busy weekend, grab a friend and accost people coming into the main parking area. Make the case. Provide live demos with hot guys and girls as necessary.



Many of my friends carry wag bags as part of our standard kit. In JT, etc. Makes a difference and doesn't cost much.


The only effective short-term solution to this problem at any area is simply to not poop there.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 9, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
And there is also the poor man's wag bag(if one is purchasing wag bags) - a simply shopping bag from the grocery store. Make sure there are no holes, of course, and double up if needed.

If it's going to be an easy pick up - do your duty and then put the bag on your hand like a mitt. Pick it up - just as you would dog duty.

If it's going to be a less easy pick up, lay down some newspaper, hold in place with stones, do your business and then use the four corners retrieval method(pick up by corners, allowing the weighted center to drop down. Drop into the plastic bag.

If it's going to be an abysmal clean up - change your diet!

Tie the handle into a knot, removing air as doing so. Again - double bag if you will not be getting to a depository soon. It's just poop, not poison. Your car will not become contaminated to have a poop bag in it(if you feel that it would - change your diet!).


Does a Climber Sh#t in The Woods(or Desert, Mountains or Roadside Crag)? NOT if (s)he is a responsible climber. Pack it out!


mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
I see things haven't changed much... stupidtaco folks still just as detached from reality.

silver, no way in hell you are going to get that many people to sh#t in bags. Simply ain't going to happen. Time to start being realistic about it or the area will just continue to suffer. A pumper truck once a week doesn't even BEGIN to compare to the 50+ cars that pack the sides of the road.

dave, spurt climbers can't even manage the toilet in the gorge, but you expect them to be responsible enough to sh#t in a bag and carry it out? And who is going to enforce it when they refuse? Wake up man. It is called Tragedy of the Commons... look into it. People need to be regulated or our shared resources will suffer. If we build it, people will use it.

If cost is the big issue, charge $3 a day, I don't care... it will weed out the scumbags who are unwilling to give up 1/30 of their pot fund to go climbing.

I love the idea of a composting toilet. I used to look forward to my post warmup sh#t at Smith... ah, the smell of fresh warm moist cedar.

(fwiw, I didn't ask CMac directly... I just got another account... but being the failed carpenter and aspiring savior that I am, I liked the "our father... resurrected bit)
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Dec 9, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
Aren't you supposed to smear it all over a boulder so it dries up quickly and blows away ?



mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 02:52pm PT
Yes, preferably in the direct sun light... a nice long rail that is exposed to the wind and bakes in the sun all day long...

Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 9, 2012 - 03:01pm PT
Unless you're camped there, there's no reason you should be taking a dump there. Day use areas don't need shitters.

Take a sh#t first thing in the morning - like a normal person does - and be done with.

Think ahead. You don't gotta be Nostradamus to see far enough into the future to know you'll need to crap at some point during the day.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Dec 9, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
Well that's all well and good for those who have gotten into the sit-on-the-throne-first-thing daily habit, but not everyone is that...anal. har har har....

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
Anal or not, we can no longer ignore the fact that steaming piles of people are camping out there nearly every night.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 9, 2012 - 03:08pm PT


What's the big deal with bringing in a fuking toilet???...

If everyone is dumping all over the place it sounds like a reasonable idea to me...




I've seen them at MANY crags and they're ALWAYS full...

Obviously people aren't sh!tting the way someone suggest they should here...

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 9, 2012 - 03:15pm PT
(fwiw, I didn't ask CMac directly... I just got another account... but being the failed carpenter and aspiring savior that I am, I liked the "our father... resurrected bit)


Ah, well develop a roster of new account names, you'll probably find your account deactivated at some completely random time. It's petty like that.

Anyway, I agree with your shitter ideas, it seems a lot more realistic than expecting the unheralded development of wilderness ethics from a bunch of pad packers. They don't have room for wag bags between their quiver of shoes, ginormous chalk bucket, and av gear.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
From a hydrology standpoint, I think a composting pit in the lower parking lot is the way to go. The soil is very coarse, highly permeable, and there is plenty of material for the composted sh#t to percolate through before reaching any surface water. Hell of a lot better than the alternatives. I suspect this will enhance the scenic beauty of the area by producing a large, lush riparian area immediately downstream of the toilet.

http://www.construction-index.com/usa-composting-toilets.asp



(Mr. Jebus Bomz: I've never met CMac, but I have a few friends who know him. He doesn't seem like a petty person to me and I have nothing against him. I think my particular banning was bullshit since every post I made in that thread included a video of sketchy Andy. But truth be told, I should have been banned many times before but wasn't... so eh, whatever... I have tons of modeling to do and the stupidtaco is the perfect place to burn 5-10 min between runs.)
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Dec 9, 2012 - 05:06pm PT
You don't have to get everyone to poop in a bag. Say, 10% of visitors while you wait another 2+ years for that toilet?

How many poops would that be? We could possibly calculate how much that reduces your chances of stepping in poop.

Half the point is education... I'd bet that only a certain percentage view it as a real problem.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 9, 2012 - 05:55pm PT
Half the point is education

How do you educate people who clearly do not care? And, as was already said,
I doubt they would walk more than 100 yards to use a one-holer - they
might miss some drama at the boulder.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 9, 2012 - 05:56pm PT
all the times ive been to the milks,, ive NEVER used pads.. Couldn't ask for better landings..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
What does your unbelievably bold style have to do with sh#t at the buttermilks?
stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Dec 9, 2012 - 06:06pm PT
Composting toilet like the ones at Shelf Road is definitely the way to go here.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 9, 2012 - 06:08pm PT
i had asked the pad question earlier in the thread Wes,, sooooo glad yur back ... And yes i did grandma and pa baked outta my mind in a cold wind and the clouds were looming too! No spotter no pad no credit card. not a single luxury...


anyhwoo i was just wondering if squishing, and ripping out vegetation for pads counts as stewardship of a fragile ecosystem..




ps. ive never pooped while climbing there. we didnt eat much.. Smoke,, drank,, but not much eating involved. Three day power bar binges plugged one up for a substantial peroid of time.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 9, 2012 - 06:36pm PT
Education is key
Education is key
Credit: RyanD

Hey I made a sign for you guys, sadly I can't do any other languages. If someone sends me their adress I can send it down. I'll throw in a 2x4 stake and a few nails with assembly instructions. I don't think some posted regulations can hurt in any overused area.

Even though the Bdays are beautiful they're also packed with rvs, trailers, tents, & SUVs most times so I think they would be a more functional place. Down below might be too far away for many pad ppl. Although I do agree with the aesthetic stand point as well. I'm not a local there by any means but I care about the milks & hope they can be freely used by those looking for one of the prettiest climbing areas around.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 9, 2012 - 06:44pm PT
well we would just end up with twice used turds.. no diff really.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 9, 2012 - 06:46pm PT
Its GYM people no doubt. They are city types, not of the wilds. They know knott how to act and where to crap. and thats a fact.
dave

climber
Earth
Dec 9, 2012 - 06:53pm PT
Oh ya. Leave the dogs at home they're possy'ing up and forming gangs out there, shitting everywhere. Its horrendous. NO DOGS!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 9, 2012 - 07:26pm PT
Too many climbing that really are out of place in the wilds.. See it constantly these days. Kinda like the "Stolpa's" ;-)

Lets see its winter,, theres two feet of snow on the ground and this sign says road not maintained during winter months, and its 225 miles to the nearest service. "yeah honey,, this will be a good short cut,, lets take it" !

Off they drive in their station wagon,, to near death...they call him stumpy now..
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Dec 9, 2012 - 07:28pm PT
they call him stumpy now..

Oh my



Susan
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 9, 2012 - 07:31pm PT
baahaha,, his TOES ,, his toes...;=-)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 9, 2012 - 07:58pm PT
Way more people than dogs.

NO PEOPLE.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 9, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
Boy, it's hard to satisfy the climbing community, eh?

Every time I've seen a pit toilet near crags, it has been a good thing. Even if it's set off from the climbing, people will hold it if they know there's a nearby option. If they have to wait till town and are turtle heading... well, you get more of the same.

Decide on a good, central place to the area to place the toilet and make sure everybody knows. I don't climb there though, so you guys can continue to play in your poo and tout solutions that don't work for all I care.

I'm only surprised people aren't throwing ass kiegels out as a solution yet, it seems in line in terms of likelihood.


Mr. Jebus Bomz: I've never met CMac, but I have a few friends who know him. He doesn't seem like a petty person to me and I have nothing against him. I think my particular banning was bullshit since every post I made in that thread included a video of sketchy Andy. But truth be told, I should have been banned many times before but wasn't... so eh, whatever...


I'm sure he's a great guy, I just don't agree with the manner he has conducted a number of bannings. I probably never will. Don't worry though, I'm sure he'll catch you up on those bannings you deserved once the old intruder alarm goes off ;).
Grippa

Trad climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Dec 9, 2012 - 08:42pm PT
Sounds similar to the situation in Joe's Valley or Indian Creek. Once those two locations obtained local support for sanitation people got wise, and started using them out of respect for the location as well as one another.
Brian

climber
California
Dec 9, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
The wife and I used to camp around the Buttermilks all the time back in the 80s and early 90s, then the big boom in bouldering hit and things got crazy pretty quick. After moving away for a couple of years and then moving back, we returned to the Eastside and hit up the Buttermilks again. The enormous amount of human sh#t on the ground, not even an attempt at a burial, as well as the used TP blown into nearby bushes just floored me. Gutted. Seriously, multiple instances of human sh#t and TP sitting on the ground within a couple of feet of boulders (generally ones with easier routes or aspects that my wife would have climbed). I know I sound like every other middle aged curmudgeon, but the magic of that place has been seriously altered for me. The climbing is still great, the views are still great, but something of the spirit has died, at least for me. Very sad.

Best of luck to everyone fighting the good fight and trying to clean things up or at least keep them under control. Though I'm pessimistic, I appreciate it. We need more good folks like that.

Brian
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 12:17am PT
My dog ate more than his body weight in human sh#t every day when he was growing up in Maple Canyon. If you left a turd in the woods between 2002 and 2007, he most likely ate it. Plus a handful of winners in Rifle, Joes, Ibex, Fagstuff, and yes Bishop.



We are adding over 70 million people a year to this planet. Crowds are only going to get bigger. The place is only going to get shittier. And the numb nuts on stupidtaco think shitting in a plastic bag is the answer. Unfukingbelievable.

Oh, and education?!? Yeah, we have a hard enough time teaching kids to do simple percentages and fractions by the time they get to college. Good luck with that.
Steve's sister

Social climber
Las Vegas, NV
Dec 10, 2012 - 12:26am PT
Wow, what happened to Leave No Trace??
damo62

Social climber
Brisbane
Dec 10, 2012 - 12:38am PT
HA Ha MesChrist is getting warmed up, it's gonna be good...

Seriously though, anybody got a vacuum, maybe a dyson...instead of posting...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 10, 2012 - 12:52am PT
HA Ha MesChrist is getting warmed up, it's gonna be good...

His flair for a rant is undeniable.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 10, 2012 - 01:54am PT
How might the land owner/manager (BLM?) and other users see this? As a problem? How about county sanitation people?

It sounds like a well-placed and well-maintained composting toilet there is overdue, assuming that it's warm enough there at the right times to work properly.
Silver

Gym climber
Dec 10, 2012 - 01:58am PT
They make kick ass sit down 5 gallon bucket shitters for cheap. Take one use it.

Open your car door set that thing down with a nice view of Mt. Tom and ....... What's so hard about this concept.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:25am PT
Its likely to end up just getting dumped in the bush afterwards anyhow....or thrown in manor marts dumpster.....any number of other inappropriate options.....if folks could behave, we, ahem, they, wouldnt have an issue.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:27am PT
In my opinion, whoever makes the breakthrough guide or whatnot for an area should also be obligated to participate in solving/forseeing issues like this. If youre going to draw a shitload of people to an area by writing a mega-guidebook, you are, in essence, contributing to the problem.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:48am PT
please,, in this age of forums and the intarweb,,you can hardly blame the guides.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 10, 2012 - 03:04am PT
I still think it's a matter of what's going to actually work. All the methods of proper self disposal are out there already and the place is still a litter box.

Get one of those nice Access Fund pit toilets going and I think you'll actually see some change. Place a donation box nearby to help pay ongoing expenses, maybe hold some poo parties as a benefit to raise the initial funds. Maybe Chinchen's band laying down some music, Mammoth brew kicking down some drink, the local climbing shops getting involved, etc., etc.?

People are creatures of convenience, so make it convenient.

I have to admit, I've taken my crappy shits out there. If we're being honest, a lot of us have not been the best at taking care of our sh#t. 99% of times I've done my dirty doo it's in areas that have not been impacted much, not nearly as trafficked as The Buttermilks, but I vow to do a better job for my part. But even behaving better, I'm not going to sit around railing on over the completely predictable fact people take the easy, irresponsible way out. What does that get anybody? Jack sh#t.

Keep preaching on though, brother Wes! I love the smell of napalm in the morning, that fire and brimstone you deliver so well.
Relic

Social climber
Vancouver, BC
Dec 10, 2012 - 03:30am PT
It ain't that bad in the milks.
No buddies gonna sh#t in a bag cept some weirdos.
Most sensible people will sh#t in town before heading there.
Campers near the milks generally sh#t far away from the boulders in the shitfields across the road. It's good poopin over there.
Ryan Tetz

Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
Dec 10, 2012 - 07:39am PT
I have a growing dislike for the birthday boulder in particular the longer I'm living in Bishop. We should air lift that thing out of there! Most overclimbed boulder ever eva!

The lower turn off is a bad place for the toilet. Everyone camps up top and it would be out of walking range for a lot of folks in the top lot/climbing at the birthday boulders. No not impossible range, but I think a lot of folks would not walk all the way down there if they are climbing out of the upper lot/camping.

Is there only those 2 spots that we can come up with? What about along the road in between the 2 parking areas somewhere? That seems like it would be ideal for everybody. What about at the birthdays but further back somewhere around the cattle guard off to the left there?

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:40am PT
Why not build a giant kitty litter box with deodorized litter...This way several boulderers could squat at the same time...There would have to be several rakes though...?
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:51am PT
We should just relocate the buttermilks to temecula or something
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Dec 10, 2012 - 11:20am PT
It's hard to proj Iron Man Traverse when you have 1.5lbs of poo in your butt
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Dec 10, 2012 - 12:18pm PT
I just saw this and didn't read all the posts so this may have already been said. As "Hippies" in the 70's we lived with a outhouse. I dug the hole over 6' deep and a bit wider at the bottom. It worked for the 4 of us and all our friends for over 5 years, and was still several feet deep when we left. I think we had a bucket of lime and a cup for sprinkling it over the "deposit". I built it on skids so it could be moved to another hole. If you ask, they will never let you do it. Just do it and do quality work. They will be pissed, but I bet it will stay. To work, it has to be special. No nali gun slam bang stuff. Hand built, quality workmanship, a one of a kind thing. Just a 1 seater but heavy and stout so it is really hard to steal. Build it somewhere else, and place it at night if necessary. Just my thoughts on this fine morning.
Roger
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 10, 2012 - 12:20pm PT
RJ, rakes, such as yerself, don't squat.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 10, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
*sigh* Another overcrowded area with issues....

Too much stone in the world to pack together like lemmings.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
in this age of forums and the intarweb

Totally not true. The bouldering here in Tahoe is pretty much exploding. There are a few groups of motivated folks putting up fuktons of new stuff. This summer was the first time I saw "the hordes" at one of the new areas, but that was one weekend and one area. 99% of the time the areas on the SoShore are empty.

I guarantee that will change as soon as the guide comes out next summer.


I dug the hole over 6' deep and a bit wider at the bottom. It worked for the 4 of us and all our friends for over 5 years

Assuming 1 sh#t per day per person, your hole would hold 7,300 shits total, less any volume lost due to decomposition.

60 cars at the Buttmilks is moderately crowded (way too crowded for me, but not unheard of by any means). Assuming 3 people per car and only half of them sh#t up there, that's 90 shits a day on a moderate day. Assume a month of ubercrowds per year (120 poops a day), a month of moderate crowds per year (90 poops a day), and a month of dwindling crowds per year (60 poops per day). A very conservative estimate is over 8,000 shits per year.


... and was still several feet deep when we left...

fukin hippies.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Trad climber
SLO, Ca
Dec 10, 2012 - 12:41pm PT
One thing for sure is that the majority of people are just not going to crap in wag or shopping bags or a bucket. Truth be told, I don't really like carrying poop around in my pack.
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Dec 10, 2012 - 01:42pm PT
Hi
I am in the poop permit assistance business. I help people get permits to sh#t on their land (ie septic systems). It is a very strictly regulated area and it is expensive to do it the ways that are required. For instance if you have a pump out shitter like the ones at JT They cost money at all ends for permiting to install to pump outs. Composting toilets are good for small uses and for people that really like play with their sh#t. They rarely work well when it is other peoples shit; they require some one that wants to take responsibility of other peoples sh#t and you have to be able to take it some where when it is composted and permits only allow you to take it to a dump and even they don't want it. you can't have a septic system unless you have a water supply . SO , I suggest you have a information kiosk with the sh#t in a bag supplies with an iron post for donations and several facelifts a year you could call them shitlifts.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 01:56pm PT
Me thinks you should retire, cuz you don't know sh#t.

"A composting toilet is a dry toilet that uses a predominantly aerobic processing system that treats excreta, typically with no water or small volumes of flush water, via composting or managed aerobic decomposition. Composting toilets may be used as an alternative to flush toilets in situations where there is no suitable water supply or waste treatment facility available or to capture nutrients in human excreta as humanure. They are in use in many of the roadside facilities in Sweden and in national parks in both the United States and the United Kingdom."

"Frequency of emptying will depend on the speed of the decomposition process and capacity, from a few months (active hot composting, [easily achieved during the Bishop summers) to years (passive, cold composting). With a properly sized and managed unit, a very small volume (about 10% of inputs) of a humus-like material results, which can be suitable as soil amendment for agriculture, depending on local public health regulations."

See also:
http://www.compostingtoilet.com/
http://www.compostingtoilet.com/LITRACK/ap_guide.pdf
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
whats really needed is a quick-mart, or PDQ near the parking area which should then be paved.. Lets get all metro !
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
Locker would prefer a Circle K.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 02:14pm PT
And a Starbucks, with little hotties hand delivering lattes to the base of your proj!

Hey Ron, are you one of "those" who believe allowing marriage equality for two consenting adult homosexuals will lead to people marrying their dogs 'n sh#t? The only slippery slope we have to worry about at the Buttmilks is the one caused by 1,000's of sh#t piles.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:15pm PT

"Locker would prefer a Circle K."...


^^^

AMEN!!!...



EDITED:

"with little hotties hand delivering lattes to the base of your proj"...

Little hotties and HAND go well together...

But delivering COFFEE???...

THAT's what you come up with???...

LOL!!!...

;-)


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
Im one who believes marriage is a black hole in which to fall dizzily to you demise. Dont give a rip who/what/ is getting married....They are delusional at best..

And i think its high time for a CIRCLE K at the milks, with entrance fees, and security patrols checking for rouge poopers and such.

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
"Would you like cream with that?"
Dickly

Trad climber
branford, ct
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:34pm PT
I was walking around the Buttermilks once, possibly looking for a place to sh#t, and came across a chick literally taking a sh#t right in front of me. The f*#ked up thing about it was that she was facing the other way so all I could see was the GIANT log coming out. It was the size of a loaf of french bread, I still have nightmares.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
prolly some around here that would pay good money to see that ROFLMAO!!!
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:45pm PT


"Would you like cream with that?"...


The train is on track and on time!!!...

Toot, toot!!!...
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Dec 10, 2012 - 02:56pm PT
One of the big problems with composting toilets is that a few people put their garbage in them. They don't work with anything but faeces, urine, and toilet paper. Ideally, a toilet would also include a place for garbage disposal, but then you have to manage that also.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 10, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
Dickly that's the funniest image I can imagine! Did u see her smearing at iron man later on?! Hahahahaha!
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Dec 10, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
The reason why I suggested the info kiosk and sh#t supplies is because you can keep more control of the process. Once you get an official permitted shitter, there are official BLM costs and it can become a revenue generating place for BLM. Fees justified by costs. It is a slippery slope. If you are a local you end up paying day use fees and cops to enforce the fees are payed like Lovers leap. But maybe you could get cheap yearly access fees ( for locals) and it would be a possible good option to have an official shitter managed by BLM. Tourists pay a daily fee and locals pay a yearly fee. And the sh#t goes away.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Dec 10, 2012 - 03:52pm PT
First of all I carry my dog's poop out. I take care of it in the city, in the suburbs and the woods. Yes, we've been out and about in the Buttermilks. Please don't attack my dog and I because of another bad owner's actions. That is BS. Now I will accept your complaint if I and my dog actually are somehow disturbing you. Then I will correct that situation because I am responsible and considerate. It would not be the first time I left an area because someone was uncomfortable with Loki. There is enough space for everyone.

Plus I bet that is human stuff.

the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Dec 10, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
If you install a toilet you'd have to change the name from the BUTTermilks.

Can't we have Locker at a kiosk handing out blue butt plugs?

I like the idea of shoving the offenders noses in sh#t.

I used to work by the river in Reno, my dogs would eat the bum sh#t. Alcoholic's unhealthy sh#t is the worst smelling sh#t there is, and dogs will still eat it.

I'd say composting toilet and to avoid trash in it one of those bear proof trash cans with a door on top, like a mailbox. When it's full, it's full, a regular trash can just gets used until it's overflowing.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 10, 2012 - 04:26pm PT
I worked for the FS around Salt Lake in the early 90's. Millcreek Canyon was free back then. While on fire patrol we had to clean up the campgrounds... syringes, condoms, tampons, all kinds of nasty sh#t. Now that they charge $3 a car or $40 for a year pass, the place is WAY cleaner.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 10, 2012 - 04:33pm PT
Okay...Nobody likes the litter box idea..How bout diaper dispensers...? Just trying to help....RJ
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Dec 10, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
I Bring my own.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#277716

I have a portable one for longer trips.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 10, 2012 - 04:47pm PT
Cosmic...I'm guessing the truck mounted shitter is for the buttermilks...? And the portable one is for..? RJ
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Dec 10, 2012 - 04:55pm PT
Since Wes is the one bitchin,, i think it only fair HE do the doo doo patrols there. Seems right up his ally. Get him some baggies, and a long pooper scooper, a yellow shirt and hat and some nifty shorts with a little badge for a uniform.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Dec 10, 2012 - 04:57pm PT
"And the portable one is for..? RJ "







When I come over and CAMP in yer Backyard.

;-P
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Dec 10, 2012 - 05:01pm PT

"First of all I carry my dog's poop out. I take care of it in the city, in the suburbs and the woods. Yes, we've been out and about in the Buttermilks. Please don't attack my dog and I because of another bad owner's actions."...


But what about that time yer pooch sh!t on my rope???...

;-)

strangeday

Trad climber
Brea ca.
Dec 10, 2012 - 05:08pm PT
This weirdo for one, has no problem with using a WAG bag. I'd never even seen one until I stayed at the castleton campground out near Moab. It doesn't seen like people had an issue with using them there. The access fund (and possibly others, I'm not sure) put up a little kiosk, you drop a dollar in there, and take a bag. It's not that difficult.

I bought a big box of them, and I always have one with me. They come in quite handy in jtree, where even though they have toilets. you never know when that breakfast burrito will decide its next move.

If people blame the situation in bishop on "LA gym climbers", as some are apt to do, maybe someone needs to get a bunch of WAG bags, and hold a potluck/shitting party at rockreation, and give a lesson on how to use them.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 10, 2012 - 05:26pm PT
Cosmic...Does that portable unit come with a rope coiled underneath...? RJ
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Dec 10, 2012 - 06:07pm PT
Yeah, Locker's ROPE!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Dec 10, 2012 - 06:08pm PT
This thread needs the blue butt plug.
Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Dec 10, 2012 - 06:12pm PT
^^^^

Ha ha, BVB.
A built in human wag bag.

:)
dave

climber
Earth
Dec 10, 2012 - 09:57pm PT
We could do it like the Euros do do it.

Find a nice boulder that we can all just sh#t behind, it should have lots of good 'grabby' bushes around it too so we can hang our tp on it, not too far of a walk from say Iron Man traverse or the drifter. Just sh#t in a big pile everyone, concentrate the use.
Captain...or Skully

climber
Dec 10, 2012 - 10:17pm PT
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Dec 11, 2012 - 11:49am PT
Doug Robinson - I agree with the Buttermilk since you asked. Not a lot of accidents there as far as I know, though I broke my back there and it would have been handy then. A litter could hang on the new outhouse as soon as it actually gets built (that time is getting closer!).
This gave me an idea when I read it. That is, why not have an outhouse "built" out of stone, by a stone mason? That way it would blend into the environment and look a lot more natural. Or maybe that was already what is being considered?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2012 - 12:11pm PT
^ with at least one wall that overhangs ~25 degrees with big friendly jugs so we can warm up without ruining our skin.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Dec 11, 2012 - 02:54pm PT
^^^^sounds like a shitty warmup.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 11, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
Vpoo
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:17pm PT
Now that you mention it Locker, I'll start training her to do just that. I just need a sample from your rope...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Dec 12, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
Climb somewhere else.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 12, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
Why?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 28, 2012 - 11:58am PT
Any word on a shitter? The sooner a shitter gets put in there, the sooner I spend less time on the stupidtaco...
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Dec 28, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
There was some talk of this awhile ago, they even had a plan and a call for comments on it...
http://friendsoftheinyo.org/foiD7/node/946
ruppell

climber
Dec 28, 2012 - 08:40pm PT
How about a location C? Say somewhere on the road to the north of the letter B in Buttermilks? Not many people will walk to either location proposed if they are on the other end of the boulder field. As usual a middle ground needs to be found.
bishopeastsider

climber
Bishop, CA
Jan 2, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
For all of you not in-the-know:

The issue of getting a toilet in the Buttermilks has been one that has a long history. For years the American Alpine Club has worked with the Bishop community to raise funds to get a toilet implemented--around $5,000 not including conservation grant money from both the AAC and the Access Fund as well as local donations. The issue is with the land manager, the Forest Service (not the BLM) and a lack of funding for maintaining the toilet (which could run between $2,000-$5,000 annually). The Forest Service is getting pressure to decommission toilets, not build more.

That being said, there is DESPERATE need for this resource and the American Alpine Club has been in negotiations with the USFS since mid-summer. One stipulation to getting the toilet implemented, would have having a local climbing organization to help maintain it. As such, the Bishop community has recently joined together to create the Bishop Area Climber's Coalition, in part as a response to this need and in part to act as a unified voice of local climbers towards the non-climbing Bishop community and City Council.

There have been public comment periods and a lot of different folks have weighed in. The take home point is, we're on it. The local community in conjunction with the American Alpine Club, the Access Fund, and the US Forest Service are working together towards the eventuality of a toilet. If any of you have worked with a government agency before, you know that it can sometimes move at a glacial pace. Have patience.

Also: the location of the toilet would be in the Barrow Pit, a pre-disturbed area with ample parking, and out of the view-shed/stink-shed. (The Barrow Pit is the large pullout off of Buttermilk Rd. before your round the corner to lower parking area/peabody parking area)
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 2, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
Thanks for the info. Give a shout if you need any help or if there are any developments. "Can't wait"
WBraun

climber
Jan 2, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
Can you even believe this sh!t?

In America it cost thousands of dollars and a ton of red tape bureaucracy just for one simple outhouse sh!tter.

Unreal .....

prickle

Gym climber
globe,az
Jan 2, 2013 - 07:48pm PT
it always disgusted me to see sh#t piles all over climbing areas. We would get to the NRG visitors center as soon as it opened so we could use the bathroom while it was oh so fresh and clean.... the porto potty at rogers would always have a treasure island by saturday morning..
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