Ghosts???? (ot)

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Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:16am PT
"Cosmic...Have you ever seen a piece of decroded crap you couldn't eat...? :/ "








Yes!

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Missing photo ID#259495




I prefer




















































FRESH FLESH!!!

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Missing photo ID#276680

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 11:17am PT
locker , at this point the truths are that a lady has been to the ER three times with the same bruising and lumps on the head after she "found herself" on the kitchen floor. The lumps and bruises are real. The children being scared shitless is also real.

So far every one spending a night there since the Uncle died has had some experience. Those are the knowns here.
locker

Social climber
Douchebag Central
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:19am PT
I find this interesting read:

"What is it about the thought of supernatural things that intrigues people so much? I should say alleged supernatural things. Maybe it’s not intrigue. Maybe it’s something else…

People are intellectually lazy! Why do people believe in the supernatural? ESP, psychics, Astrology, ghosts, etc? Because it’s easy to just say that something is caused by supernatural forces, rather than to actually think about things, to do a little research or even perform an experiment… to actually find out what the cause of something is. It’s really not that hard.

I want to talk about ghosts for now. What are ghosts? Or, what do people purport ghosts to be? Basically, what survives of our soul or spirit (whatever you want to call it) after we die. Okay. Let’s take a look at just what this would imply.

In order for something to exist, it has to consist of something. To start with, everything consists of atoms. From there, we know that atoms emit energy. And energy has certain limits, as does matter, or atoms. The first thing we know for certain is that one object cannot pass through another object and retain its original form. There is a certain topic in quantum mechanics called “quantum tunneling” which deals with this very topic. The quantum tunneling principle basically says that it may be possible for the energy from an object, namely on the atomic level – not automobiles or people, may pass through another object.

It follows that if ghosts are real, in that they consist of matter, then they cannot pass through walls. It is physically impossible.

The next topic to deal with are the claims that people make that ghosts throw objects, move chairs, open and close doors, etc. These claims make believers chose one or the other. Either ghosts are physical beings, or they are not. Either they consist of atoms, or they don’t. We know this is true because in order for a ghost to move or throw anything, or to turn a door handle, friction is required. And friction is caused by two surfaces working against each other. Simple physics… not to be confused with psychics.

Because friction is required, then any claim that a ghost caused some object to move locks one into saying that a ghost is a solid object, or that at least it is atomic in structure and is in some phase of matter, i.e. solid, liquid or gas… probably not plasma. And if this is the case, then the ghost could not “become invisible” unless it was bound by specific temperatures. Meaning, whatever material the ghost consisted of has a particular temperature at which it changes states of matter – boils, melts, evaporates, etc. And the way to make the ghost visible is to simply change its form from a gas to a solid… to simply lower the temperature to make its material “solid.” And with everything we know about matter, if you were to bring an actual human being to its boiling point… well, you know what would happen.

To say that the ghost is not a solid or physical object totally goes against everything that we know about science. If one claims that a ghost is not made of matter, or atoms, then it totally throws out the possibility of its existence. Everything we know about energy and matter totally contradicts this theory. In order to interact with reality, it has to consist of something. And if these alleged ghosts do consist of something other than any kind of matter or energy that we know of, then they do not even enter into our reality. They cannot interact with us on any possible level and are outside the realm of science. The most one could say, in this situation, is that they were agnostic in terms of belief in ghosts, because they would be neither visible, nor noticeable in any circumstance. They could neither show themselves to us, nor could they interact with any object in order to “show us a sign.” They would be likened to the pink Unicorn on the dark side of the Moon. No one is there to see it, and it doesn’t effect us in any way, so whether or not there is a pink Unicorn on the dark side of the Moon means nothing to us.

So what do we do? Do we rewrite every book on science, physics and biology to support the wild claims of a few people who have never actually proven any in any scientific way? Or, do we simply disregard these claims as the result of the inner workings of these people’s imaginations, and rely on thousands of years of human observation, and hundreds of years of compounded, unrefuted scientific knowledge? You tell me.

Then we come to these “Ghost Hunter” shows on television. These people are, to start with, not scientists. They say so themselves. They have an agenda. To prove that ghosts do, in fact, exist. Any evidence that points in any other direction is disregarded. And look at the equipment they bring to these sites: Geiger counters, Infrared surface thermometers. Are they looking for nuclear fallout? They wave that stupid Infrared surface thermometer around wildly and say, “Look, the temperature is constantly changing.” Yeah, no kidding. You don’t know how to use that thing. It’s for measuring the temperature of a solid surface, not for waving around the room like a magic wand. Of course you’re going to get odd readings.

The main problem is that they never actually do any real scientific research. The first main component in scientific research is hypothesis testing. Say, for example, you believe there might be ghosts in a certain location. Ok. So what are these ghosts purportedly doing? Moving an object around the room? Making the temperature change? Well, design an experiment that aims to disprove that theory. That’s how the Scientific Method works. You don’t start with a conclusion and look for every bit of evidence that supports that claim, then disregard anything that doesn’t support it. It’s the same thing with “Creation Scientists.” They want to prove that God created everything, so that’s the only evidence they look for. When they see that biology and genetics prove that people evolved from other forms of life, they throw that evidence away because they aren’t interested in the truth. They want to prove that “God did it.”

In this way, the Scientific Method doesn’t work for ghost hunters. These guys go in there with a whole bunch of crap they bought at Radio Shack, stuff that isn’t designed to “detect ghosts.” Then they go through looking for things they can’t explain. Like why they get electromagnetic readings when they’re in a room with an electrical panel. Hmmm… I wonder why? Could it be that there is electricity in the room? Then, in the true scientific spirit, instead of trying to figure out what caused the strange occurrence (say, for example, having the electric company shut off the power to the house, and then performing another reading), they simply assume it was a ghost causing these readings. How intellectually lazy these people are. It’s nonsense.

Then there are people who claim to have had very real experiences which include things such as a ghost attacking them, accompanied by the feeling of paralysis, being unable to breathe, etc. These experiences are very vivid to those who have them.

These experiences are easily explained. Here is a link to a study on the topic, although this study was done on those who claimed to be abducted by UFOs. But the situations are similar enough to note this study. Both are relatively similar experiences.

Basically, what happens is when one falls asleep, there is a part of the brain stem that paralyzes the body once you enter REM sleep. This happens so that you don’t act out your dreams. The frightening thing that can happen is that the sleeping person wakes up, but this part of the brain stem fails to release its paralyzing effect on the body. The person cannot move, possibly has a very difficult time breathing, and also possibly is still experiencing the dream they were having. It’s called a waking dream, and the person experiencing it is totally convinced that what is happening in their mind is happening in reality.

The basic point that I want to make is that instead of immediately jumping to the supernatural conclusion, try doing some experimentation to actually discover what really caused what you claim to be ghost activity. You’ll be surprised at what a little research will reveal.

Do some research and read a book."
...

locker

Social climber
Douchebag Central
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:21am PT


"locker , at this point the truths are that a lady has been to the ER three times with the same bruising and lumps on the head after she "found herself" on the kitchen floor"...



Be interesting to see what would happen if she wore a helmet...

locker

Social climber
Douchebag Central
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:22am PT


ANY chance this is her son???...




Cosmiccragsman

Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:27am PT
^^^^
DAM!
He missed the Beer bottle he was trying to NAIL into the wall!
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 11:27am PT
Yes,Locker, that is exaclty how i think USUALLY!


Ive always been a simple guy- if it lives, it makes tracks, if it makes tracks then i can find it.


I have OFTEN really wanted to converse to my relatives and friends whom have passed, but its always been pretty much a one sided conversation in factual content. I have NO proof positive of the un explained. I was on the phone yesterday with someone who does practice energy healing
and eastern medicines and learned quite a bit about something i knew nothing of.


Am i saying i believe this 100%,, no im not there yet. But this is a strange happening for the half moon climbing team...
John M

climber
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:39am PT
There is so much bullshit tied on with 9/11 that anyone who questions anything is now smeared with that entire brush. The same things happens with things like spirits. There is so much misinformation out there, plus they aren't exactly easy things to define, and like people, there is a very broad range of them. Some are extremely evil, but most are benign. The extremely evil ones are the cagiest.

The police believe that there are mass murders that never get caught. They are real. They exist. We spend huge amounts of money trying to catch them. Yet some don't get caught. That is not a great simile to what is happening with spirits, but its the best I can do this morning. I believe that the people who start these "ghost hunter" shows have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. These people are more addicted to the limelight then the truth, and they attract those people with stories who are also attracted to the limelight and between the two of them, they start to believe that they actually know something. Most people I know who have had to deal with more then simply benign spirits wish like hell they never had these experiences and wish like hell that they did not believe in them.

Jim. If I misread you last night, then i apologize. I'm sure I was on the prod, so likely I jumped a bit too hard. I hope that you won't hold any hard feelings against me.

T bird. That list you give doesn't begin to cover the more nasty things out there.

John
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:40am PT
rottingjohnny - Splitter....Reilly has me on speed dial and will send me down there to fix your issues...You have to pick up the bar tab and the surf board rentals...RJ
I new I could count on you for back up, bro! thnx!

Agreed, bar tab and board rental are on me, actually I have a great longboard (& wetsuit) you could use!

BTW, Should it go down, try and locate that Simms skateboard that I sold Joe, bitd! And bring it with ya, b'cuz it could come in handy should things get REALLY sketchy (for an example, maybe check out the Exorcist one more time, lol) and in just case ya have a sudden urge to get the hell outta here! ...Nahmean? ;)
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 11:45am PT
" Most people I know who have had to deal with more then simply benign spirits wish like hell they never had these experiences and wish like hell that they did not believe in them"--JohnM





That is EXACLTY what my friend in MRKL said about her abilities. Word for word.
locker

Social climber
Douchebag Central
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:46am PT


" Most people I know who have had to deal with more then simply benign spirits wish like hell they never had these experiences and wish like hell that they did not believe in them"--JohnM...


MOST mentally ill people wish they weren't...

Just saying...

;-)

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 11:52am PT
you beady eyed bud chomper!;-)


Hey,, dont think i didnt know what to expect here ! But like i said- ive done far more embarrassing shyt than this.

I once got snookered into doing a TOTALLY naked stage dance for a certain bartendress that was leaving for a new job...In the bar, stuffed FULL of her friends, while it was showed live over the internet. right down to and including da socks. I had no g-string,, found some dollar bills stuffed in my crack though...

So shame,,,, is for wussies lol!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:57am PT
In order for something to exist, it has to consist of something. To start with, everything consists of atoms. From there, we know that atoms emit energy. And energy has certain limits, as does matter, or atoms. The first thing we know for certain is that one object cannot pass through another object and retain its original form......

It follows that if ghosts are real, in that they consist of matter, then they cannot pass through walls. It is physically impossible.

This is all based on false assumptions and pretends that science knows anything about the spiritual world, which it does not. (but may in time) Right now Gamma rays and other radiation, not to mention cell phone conversations, TV Channels and other radiowave stuff are passing right through your body every minute.

and it's also known that invisible stuff that's real, like radiation can also affect us, even kill us.

So I don't know if Ghosts can rattle things or not or how they do it, but it's time we admit we don't have such a complete handle on everything in the world that we would like

I'm sure the dudes 1000 years ago, when confronted with things we know to be true from our science today, would cluck their tongues and call us crazy

Peace

karl
John M

climber
Dec 3, 2012 - 11:57am PT
It follows that if ghosts are real, in that they consist of matter, then they cannot pass through walls. It is physically impossible.

An ex ray is defined as being made up of photons which have no mass, and yet they exist and they pass through matter.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 11:59am PT
in 1969,, hand held communicators were only on startrek , now they are common - even hand held computers.

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Dec 3, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
Splitter....I forgot about the skate board..I saw Joe at our daughters tennis matches one saturday...Forgot to ask him about the Simms....Knowing Joe , it's probably buried under 3 feet of dried llama dung...RJ
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
honestly, i have some concern myself of going out there. A grown man,, sheeeesh.


I offer myself a ball cupping,,,,,


Credit: Ron Anderson
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Dec 3, 2012 - 01:50pm PT
That's not ball cupping, it's pocket pool !
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 3, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
we once ran into a group whom had been fooling us for days, in the USFS in DOg Valley CA. For two nights in a row, we spotted a large fire near crystal peak mine area, that we responded to after calling it in and twice we were foiled in FINDING it.
We were even reprimanded by the FMO for faking reports. The third night, we snuck in, no lights , no sirens, not even headlights.


We solved our mystery with five people whom sat around a burning sheep carcass hung by a large tripod in strange robes chanting away. they were using gas to soak the carcass in. They had seen us coming the two previous nights. We tooled em good...


what a pleasure of a call that was: " Sierra dispatch,, 7202, we are at the scene of the fire reported and not found the previous two nights! Please notify Sierra county we need a response to our location.." The next day, an apology from the FMO , and life was back to whacky normal.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Dec 3, 2012 - 03:55pm PT
I grew up in a genuine haunted house. From ages 4 to 12.

Not Demons and bleeding walls stuff but haunted nonetheless.

When my family finally moved away to a brand new house when I was 12 I finally realized how horrible and stressful it was.

Lost Souls? Devils? I have my doubts about that. I have no idea but certainly there are things beyond our current understanding.

And no... no meds... then or now... hehe.

When I watch my own son sleeping blissfully in his bed these days, I remember how foreign that was to me at that age.



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