Gates in or gates out?? Racking up inquiry.

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RyanD

climber
Squamish
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 12, 2012 - 08:54pm PT
Just curious how most ppl do it & if there is any logic behind either way? I rack up with the biner gates facing in, towards my harness. Always have, & for no particular reason other than that is how i was taught. I notice a few of my friends & some others rack up with biner gates facing outwards, anyone here do that? If so, what is the benefit?
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 12, 2012 - 09:00pm PT
If I have one cam on each biner I do up and in. but for wireds I do down and out.
nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Oct 12, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
whatever floats your boat!
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2012 - 09:50pm PT
That's kind of what I thought nutjob. Only pro/con I can think of is that it may be easier for a biner to come off your harness if the gate was facing outwards as it could get opened easier & potentially hooked on something? I guess I should rephrase the OP to- "what do you do & what is cooler- looking?"
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Oct 12, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
I rack mine facing in too Ryan. I've never had anything pop off of my harness... Kieran faces his outward and dropped my 1.75 friend and had to trade me it for his .75 Camalot...
treez

Trad climber
99827
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:07pm PT
Is this like the toilet paper thing?

Which answer gets me laid?
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:10pm PT
The occurrence of unclipping/dropping is probably about the same, but I've had more droppage occur with gates in than gates out. I think.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
However I damn well please...











Your







Gonna










Die
Fish Boy

Trad climber
Vancouver
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
What did you do with your cam Mike? Throw it away? So you wouldn't climb with me on that #3 cam that had fallen of Rock On that day you and I were there? Farking bomber I reckon!

Gates out, I drop a lot of gear, but I also find a lot. Seems a fair trade off to me.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:40pm PT
I rack in but out is definitely sexier. I've been thinking of switching teams. Whaddaya think?

DMT
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:45pm PT
REAL men use 1" webbing....
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:54pm PT
Fish, kieran is still using it.. It's one thing if I drop my gear, something else entirely to have your partner do it.. I'm pretty sure we used that 3 didn't we?
Onewhowalksonrocks

Mountain climber
portland, Maine
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:55pm PT
For those of us who climbed before gear loops. We used gears slings only.

How many us only gear slings?
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Oct 12, 2012 - 10:58pm PT
I use whatever I can. Seriously, when I am trying to get out of a tight spot, I am tripping... I really hate chimney's. Totally suck at them and it makes racking a nightmare.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Oct 12, 2012 - 11:03pm PT
If you have to ask, you won't understand the answer.
How many us only gear slings?
Harness loops only for quick draws and my personal stuff, lockers, nut tool, cord for an ascender knot, rapp ring.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
the crowd MUST BE MOCKED...Mocked I tell you.
Oct 12, 2012 - 11:20pm PT
over left shoulder

gates in


everything else is heresy
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Oct 12, 2012 - 11:30pm PT
^^^
Now that that's solved,
boxers or briefs?
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2012 - 11:53pm PT
Thanks for the replies everyone, still no consensus but some interesting replies. If u read the OP you would understand that the query wasn't whether u use a gear sling or not or what you carry with you when you climb. My question is still not clear I guess- "when putting carabiners on the gear loops of your harness do you face the gates towards or away from your body & more importantly why do you orient them in that particular direction?"

if you use a gear sling or not I don't care, they are impractical & useless for hard freeclimbing & more or less a leftover relic from a bygone era before harnesses with gear loops were around IMO. On a 2000' wall or for aid climbing sure, but lets say your about to get on a single pitch that only requires 6 quickdraws for gear??? Can we all put ourselves in this position for a moment?? If your carrying a sling still then maybe we need to start a seperate thread.


What I want to know is if there's a good reason or not to face the gates In a certain direction, besides looking cool & getting chicks as it would appear from the field research done here!
Captain...or Skully

climber
Oct 12, 2012 - 11:58pm PT
Gates in, rope end down on draws. Gear is how it ends up, but I like gates in on everything. handier clipping? Maybe.
You're definitely gonna die. Just don't do it blowing the clip.
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 12, 2012 - 11:58pm PT


I alternate them...



EDITED:

On my gear sling...



apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:00am PT
"Can we all put ourselves in this position for a moment?? If your carrying a sling still then maybe we need to start a seperate thread."

Well, aren't you special.
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:01am PT
My gates always face out. It saves a major wrist twist and is a much more fluid gear placement and removal. I always rack on my harness and never use a gear sling.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2012 - 12:01am PT
Haha ok ur right apogee sorry I was trolling a bit too hard there!


Edit- mtnmum has a reason! Yes, thank you. I thought about the twisting of the wrist as a possible reason. Still gonna keep mine facing in.
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:07am PT
Try them out and you will never go back. Just sayin.
cintune

climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:18am PT
Alternating. Best of both worlds and keeps the short-term memory sharp.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:27am PT
All my gates in except the biners I rack my nuts on.

Those hurt my nuts either way.
briham89

Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:44am PT
Munge covered it. Gates in, gear sling on the left shoulder....
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Oct 13, 2012 - 01:11am PT
My gates always face out. It saves a major wrist twist and is a much more fluid gear placement and removal.

Me too.

I rack all on my harness when it's hot or I don't need a lot of gear. All on a gear sling when there's chimneys. Often slings / biners on harness and the rack on a gear sling when swapping leads.

jstan

climber
Oct 13, 2012 - 01:29am PT
The bigger existential question is whether to rack on one's harness, or like real men to rack on a gear sling. Should be good for a couple hundred posts easy. Whether to have the carabiners face in or out is a trifle compared to this question.

When you have all that shyte on your harness what do you do when you have to move into an offwidth or a chimney? That would be interesting to see.
snowhazed

Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
Oct 13, 2012 - 02:11am PT
I second mtnmun
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Oct 13, 2012 - 02:25am PT
All gear should be racked on locking 'biners that are fully locked. The gear sling should be long enough so the gear hangs just out of reach.

That's how you learn to run it out.
wallyvirginia

Trad climber
Stockholm, Sweden
Oct 13, 2012 - 03:45am PT
Harness loops only for quick draws and my personal stuff, lockers, nut tool, cord for an ascender knot, rapp ring.

^^^
+1

Sling over shoulder holding cams and nuts so I can swing them behind my back and out of the way when I need to. I keep em racked like that and just throw them in the bag when i'm done. Single or multipitch. Makes transfers easier when you're swinging leads too.

The qd's, I clip them gates out, out of habit. I think it has to do with the fact that my first harness had soft gear loops that didn't stand out and you had to clip from below. Otherwise you'd press the loop into your waist and had to fiddle around using your thumbs.. And it looks sexier!
Prod

Trad climber
Oct 13, 2012 - 09:36am PT
Interesting question. I start out gates in, but I find that if I fiddle with gear, and put it back on my harness for a different piece, it usually ends up gate out when I put it back.

I've tried racking on my harness and just don't like it.

For me quick draws, personal gear, and small nuts are on the harness, gates in. The rest is on a sling gates in.

Prod.
scooter

climber
fist clamp
Oct 13, 2012 - 09:59am PT
gates in. few movements to get the gear off harness. In 22 yrs of climbing never had anything fall off my harness.
whitemeat

Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
Oct 13, 2012 - 10:05am PT
for people who use gear slings, how do you deal with the distraction of your gear swinging around when you free climb. and by the way i clip gates out because your thumb can clip the gate faster.
Borut

climber
french
Oct 13, 2012 - 10:27am PT
i'll find myself naturally clipping gear into the harness gates in, but i prefer unclipping from the harness if they're gates out, so it really depends on the situation.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Oct 13, 2012 - 10:41am PT
Gates in, sling over left shoulder, big in back small to the front.Nuts to front cams in back. Iron in front of all, camhooks in front of Iron. Ice screws in front also. Nuts Iron screws and hooks gate out since biner caries multiples. Free biners and draws between nuts and cams.

Filterless cigarettes, and lighter go in chalkbag. Chalk optional

Important!.. keyhole biners on cams!

Have been known to rack a specific cam that I am going to need on my shirt collar.

Briefs or commando

to the left

brunettes

blue

Any other questions?
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Oct 13, 2012 - 10:56am PT
I always rack the gates out, because the gear sits more flush to your body with the flat spine of the carabiner in.

Also, look at the position you must contort you wrist into when unclipping a biner from your harness that has the gate facing in. I'm all about ergonomics, and unclipping biners with the gate facing out is just a more natural motion.

It makes much less difference on a gear sling.
Banquo

climber
Amerricka
Oct 13, 2012 - 11:17am PT
Racking gates in is the result of creeping socialism.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:06pm PT
If you have to ask, I recommend cross-stitch or cooking for a hobby.
tornado

climber
lawrence kansas
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:27pm PT
maybe someone can figure it on the mountain project forum. always some nerds over there who can't agree how to fit everything in the world on their harness. yawn.
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:35pm PT

Do it however you want because it really doesn't make a fuking difference to anyone, but you...

So really...

who gives a fuk???...

LOL!!!...



EDITED:

and since racking biners is so important...

let me add that I prefer to seat my weiner to the left side...





Post script:

If this isn't an RC.n00b thread...

what is???...

Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
I rack my wiener to the right, but that's because I always use my right hand . . .
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
Locker! This could mean the difference between a send and a fail.

Of course it matters, especially on the Grit!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 13, 2012 - 12:44pm PT
How a real man racks:

RyanD

climber
Squamish
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2012 - 01:51pm PT
Haha ok now were getting somewhere. Seems like more ppl have a reason why to rack gates out than in. That is what i was wondering & that is why i posted it on a Climbing forum where i figured a few climbers might have pondered the same. A few ppl had some good logic as to the question, id like to know the benefit to gates in besides the alleged "dropping" factor. I ask because i'm always looking for ways to be more efficient on the rock & am interested in what others do & why they do it.


I like how many get all antsy & aggro when someone wants an opinion about Climbing on here. Im not asking for online belay directions or how to rappel, just looking for insights that might help me be better or learn something new- which I have .

If u think it's a noob ? your probably sitting at your computer wearing a gear sling over each shoulder with a bunch of #12 hexes clanging around with gates facing every which way & your wiener in your left hand.


Edit-^^^ oops not making fun of your hexes Reilly haha cool photo!
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Oct 13, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
Rackalicious.
Credit: philo
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 13, 2012 - 01:55pm PT

"& your wiener in your left hand."...

Always a nice fit!!!...

locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 13, 2012 - 01:56pm PT



Bottom line...

THIS belongs on...

RC.n00b...


LOL!!!...

RyanD

climber
Squamish
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
Point taken locker, I'll stick to TRs, squamish threads, sarcastic comments, & making fun of Farook in the future. Oh & maybe I should get onside with one of your fine American political parties, any recommends?
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 13, 2012 - 02:00pm PT


Ryan...

dude...

I am totally JUST fuking around...

There is NOTHING wrong with your thread or it being here on ST...

LOL!!!...

RyanD

climber
Squamish
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2012 - 02:02pm PT
But seriously tho..................




























What way does sharma face his gates??
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Oct 13, 2012 - 02:06pm PT
Towards Mecca.
BruceAnderson

Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
Oct 13, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
Always gates out!!!
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 13, 2012 - 02:23pm PT


For the record...

I'm a "Gates in" sort and have zero problem removing them in that position...

But then on a 3.1- ...

there's plenty of time to fiddle around...

Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Oct 13, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
You're hopeless, Locker

Have you ever even tried the other way?

If you try racking gates out, I'll use my left hand . . .
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Oct 13, 2012 - 04:02pm PT
I've run through an entire Kama Sutra of gate positions and gear locations. Of course, as many have pointed out, what floats yer boat is the answer for you. My answers:

1. I carry cams and nuts on a sling. Over the left shoulder, because that's how we racked pitons when your hammer and hammer sling were on the right. It worked then, it still works now even without a hammer. Quickdraws and free biners go on the right front harness loop, belay device and other belay stuff on the right rear harness loop. I generally keep the left rear harness loop free, because I like to stuff a windbreaker/rain jacket/ light insulated jacket through that. In the summer (I'm a big sweater), a small towel often goes back there.

2. "Wrist twist" Part 1: On the front harness loops, gate-in is less awkward for the hand position, especially when you have to reach across to a loop on the opposite side from your hand. But on the rear loops, the opposite is true. So I clip gate-in in front and gate-out in back.

3. "Wrist twist" Part 2: Gate-out is, in my opinion, a bad option for a biner laden with wired nuts. If you don't manage to trap all the nuts behind the unclipping hand, then the unclipping motion, which inverts the biner, will dump everything else. If you have but a single cam on the biner, then the gate orientation is less critical because you are likely, if not guaranteed, to trap the cam during the unclipping process.
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 13, 2012 - 04:12pm PT


^^^

I like that take...

Slinky00

Trad climber
Carson City, NV
Oct 13, 2012 - 04:28pm PT
I like to face the gates out because I feel its easier use my thumb to open the gate. I also like that the gear sits cleaner with the spine against your body.
paganmonkeyboy

climber
mars...it's near nevada...
Oct 13, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
why not split your rack half of each and see which one you like best ?
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 13, 2012 - 04:50pm PT


and for the record...















































"Yer GONNA die!!!"...

;-)

Ol' Skool

Trad climber
Oakhurst, CA
Oct 13, 2012 - 07:06pm PT
While we're on subjects ergonomic, don't forget to use shoulder slings on the wrong side while doing liebacks, etc- you'll get a better pump out of the deal.
Batrock

Trad climber
Burbank
Oct 13, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
Gates out, Bill Gates is the antichrist.
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Oct 14, 2012 - 10:53pm PT
Gates out on belt. Gates in on the rack.
Gates out on belt. Gates in on the rack.
Credit: Spider Savage
Captain...or Skully

climber
Oct 14, 2012 - 10:57pm PT
The only time a "dropping factor" should weigh in is if you're a doofus.
Gates in, I maintain, is the simplest route from sketched to clipped.
Mark Force

Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
Oct 15, 2012 - 01:29am PT
Was really tempted to skip, but I can't help myself.

If you want to get whatever you have clipped to that biner attached to the rock and clipped into your rope as efficiently as possible, put the gate in. Gate in is faster to rack, too.

Oh, you're asking about racking for sport climbing. Yeah, OK. If you were climbing and placing pro, you'd want the gate out and down if you had more than one piece on the biner so that you could get it off the biner ASAP and with the least clusterf#%k, but then clusterf#%k is really "in" these days.

As for gear slings being impractical and useless - only if you never climb any cracks bigger than your fist or any corners that require "body English" to stay on. But, then, climbing cracks and placing pro are just leftover relics of a bygone era.

Mark Chapman jammin'
Mark Chapman jammin'
Captain...or Skully

climber
Oct 15, 2012 - 01:32am PT
Sweet.
Degaine

climber
Oct 15, 2012 - 03:05am PT
Hi RyanD,

I have the answer (seriously).

Those who rack gates out use their thumb to unclip the biner on the gear loop, those who rack gates in use their forefinger to unclip.

It's as simple as that and probably so unconscious for most that they don't realize it.

But no need to take my word for it, just try it and you'll see.

Cheers.
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2012 - 03:32am PT
Some good replies and logic by Rgold, skully, mark, & Degaine. Thanks, if it ever stops raining I'll check it out. With cams or nuts racking gates out seems like it would be easier for the gear to slip off since u kind of turn it upside down with your thumb when taking it off the gear loop.

Not meaning to offend anyone who uses gear slings. Around here off- widths are not often encountered. I guess if I climbed somewhere with more of that style my opinion might be different.

It seems like for sport routes gates out could be quicker but if your already sport climbing you might as well just hang the draws with a stick clip :-) Haha how many ppl who use gear slings also use stick clips??
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Oct 15, 2012 - 09:23am PT
IMO,

Free climbing with one or two pieces per biner... gates in, opening high.

Aid climbing... gates out, opening low.

YMMV.
Jeremy Ross

Gym climber
Oct 15, 2012 - 09:51am PT
The only true ethical debate in climbing.

Gate in.



-JR
Jstod

Trad climber
North Vancouver
Oct 15, 2012 - 10:23am PT
This appears to have been discussed elsewhere on the interweb before:

http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2396329;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;

The Nose has only ever been freed Gates Out ;)
locker

Gym climber
DUH!!!...
Oct 15, 2012 - 10:29am PT


"The Nose has only ever been freed Gates Out"...



Not to be a dick...

but...

so what!!!...


;-)

Hannes

climber
Oct 15, 2012 - 10:29am PT
I prefer gates in as I find it to be less faff to get the gear off the harness. If I put something back mid route it tends to be with gates out as it is easier to clip on
Jstod

Trad climber
North Vancouver
Oct 15, 2012 - 10:38am PT
Not to be a dick...

but...

so what!!!...

Well it's obviously VERY important... :)
Capt.

climber
some eastside hovel
Oct 15, 2012 - 11:00am PT
I have a certain partner who(when we swap leads)just grabs the sh#t and throws it on his harness any which way.No thought to it,doesn't care,"Whatever,just give me the gear" type guy.He's climbed all over the globe and has a lot of impressive ticks under his belt.He's still above ground and still climbs this way.It's actually quite funny to watch('til someone loses an eye). :-0
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Oct 15, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
Inny or outty.


I'm surprised we don't yet have close-up pics....
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