Columbus Day-of-Mourning

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TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 9, 2012 - 02:35am PT
Credit: TomCochrane
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
Oct 9, 2012 - 02:43am PT
What specific day should that be? There are many, many days when Native Americans here in the US got f*#ked over. But then, that and they were the cost of progress. It's all about one's perspective.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 9, 2012 - 02:45am PT
May well be a good new holiday, no objection here.
But how about a picture without horses, as they were exterminated by the early Indians over 10,000 years ago, and only reintroduced after the white man "discovered" America.
(Perhaps the Indians didn't exterminate the horses, it was along time ago so hard to be sure, but horses sure weren't in America for the "modern" Indians to enjoy until the white man brought them.)
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2012 - 03:04am PT
the Spanish showed up in the southwest with some of the best horses in the world

however they had very little contact with the local Apaches

as they couldn't get close enough to catch them

native people can outrun horses over long distances

and that's how the natives got their horses

instead of eating the horses, the Spanish demonstrated how to ride the horses as a status symbol and pack animal

Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Oct 9, 2012 - 07:44am PT
All you whities, go back where you came from!
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2012 - 01:38am PT
Credit: TomCochrane
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Oct 18, 2012 - 10:16am PT
This thread brings to mind the remarks of Cadete, chief of the Mescalero Apache, made to his captors at Bosque Redondo. From Blood and Thunder by Hampton Sides:

The four hundred Mescalero Apaches sharing the reservation with the Navajos had come to the end of their patience. Outnumbered by the Navajos twenty to one, they were especially miserable at the bosque. They had refused to send their children to Carleton's school and had completely given up trying to plant corn. Unlike the Diné, the Mescaleros had no tradition of agriculture and had come to view the work required to grow crops--while an interesting novelty at first--as beneath their dignity. At the most basic level, they did not understand the life Carleton wanted them to live; and to the extent that they did, they abhorred it.

One day at Bosque Redondo, Cadete, the great Mescalero chief, fell into conversation with Capt. John Cremony about the Mescalero's view of work. With frank eloquence, Cadete explained his people's disdain for the white man's mode of existence:

"You desire our children to learn from books, and say, that because you have done so, you are able to build all those big houses and sail over the sea, and talk with each other at any distance, and do many wonderful things...

"Let me tell you what we think. You begin when you are little to work hard. After you get to be men, you build big houses, big towns, and everything else in proportion. Then, after you have got them all, you die and leave them behind. Now, we call that slavery. You are slaves from the time you begin to talk until you die; but we are free as air. The Mexicans and others work for us. Our wants are few and easily supplied. The river, the wood and the plain yield all we require. We will not be slaves; nor will we send our children to your schools, where they only learn to become like yourselves."

When Cremony tried to debate some of Cadete's points, he found it "utterly impossible to make him comprehend the other side of his specious argument." The Mescaleros hatred of the bosque was so palpable, and their rejection of its day-to-day life so complete, that he thought they were unteachable.

One morning in early November 1965, the soldiers at Fort Sumner awoke to find that the entire tribe of Mescaleros had bolted from the reservation. The Indians had carefully planned their nighttime breakout, scattering in all directions of the compass, then reconvening in the mountains of their homeland. To effect their escape--and also pay a parting insult to their hated fellow tenants--the Mescaleros absconded with some two hundred horses owned by the Navajos. The army picket guards scarcely bothered to pursue them, and though embarrassed by the episide, General Carleton didn't press the matter. The Mescalero Apaches never returned to the Round Forest.

A new holiday? If you can celebrate the destruction of freedom by an enslaved society which glories in kidding itself that it's "free".
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Oct 18, 2012 - 10:30am PT
The Apache's had it right. They were free, and that old chief knew what he was saying. We are the slaves to this artificial world we have made.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 18, 2012 - 10:32am PT
"My god! The women here are the most beautiful in the world?" I remarked to my Bogota colleagues during a trip to Colombia a few years back.

"You think so?" Replied Hector, who was driving though the clogged streets where no one seemed to mind the lane lines. "Man, I think they're kinda homely. In Medellin, now THEY are the most beautiful women in the world."

Sh#t, I missed it by that much. Oh well, I was close. Anyway, Phillipe, the passenger, twists in his seat to say,

"You know WHY Colombian women are the most beautiful in the world?" There was a glint in Phillippe's black eyes. He is French Colombian, dual citizenship, his parents emigrated back in the day. He explained that many Colombians of European descent retain dual citizenship. His boss is of Spanish descent and holds a Spanish passport as well. We'd already had that conversation. I asked Phillippe to explain, knowing it would be a good one.

"Let me explain," he began in his curiously accented English (very different than Mexican-accented English, these South Americans). "The English and the Spanish have very different plan for the New World. The English? They come in and kill everyone, start over. That is why you have so many ugly women in the United States. Its the English!"

He smiled his razor thin smile, the one that always had me wondering which cartel he worked for and made me reluctant to say 'no' to this man.

"The Spanish, however..." He paused, smile hanging over the front seat. "The Spanish, they kill all the men and rape all the women. And this is why Colombian women are the most beautiful in the world."

Just then a whole passel of office workers crossed the street in front of us, mostly women. Dressed impeccably, high heels, fit, beautiful women of every skin hue and hairstyle.

"Mmmm hmmmm" I replied to Phillippe."How long does it take to drive to Medellin?" I wondered. Phillippe jumped on it.

"4 hours or 6 weeks." Again with the smile.

"Four hours to six weeks, what does a bridge wash out or something?"

"I said four hours OR six weeks. If your journey goes well, about 4 hours drive. If you get kidnapped crossing the mountains? It will take us about six weeks to ransom you out."

Harhar, those Colombians. Especially the French ones.

DMT
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Oct 18, 2012 - 10:40am PT
From the Naval Museum in Ushuaia, Argentina:

Credit: Reilly
Credit: Reilly
Credit: Reilly
Credit: Reilly
Credit: Reilly
Credit: Reilly
MisterE

climber
Oct 10, 2013 - 12:03am PT
Columbus Day: Celebrating 500 years of racism and oppression

Credit: MisterE

The Oatmeal nails it:

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/columbus_day

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Oct 10, 2013 - 12:24am PT
Good find Tony Bird!

Columbus didn't "discover" America!

And neither did the "Native Americans"

They are all egomaniacs!

But possession is 99 tenths of the law
10b4me

Ice climber
Bishop/Flagstaff
Oct 10, 2013 - 01:22am PT
I am all for it.
L

climber
California dreamin' on the farside of the world..
Oct 10, 2013 - 10:38am PT
"But how about a picture without horses, as they were exterminated by the early Indians over 10,000 years ago, and only reintroduced after the white man "discovered" America."

We're talking about making reparations for Genocide and someone complains about a photo of Native Americans on horses???? Are you kiddin' me?

I am all for making Columbus Day a Day of Mourning. My forefathers walked the Trail of Tears, blahblah...they walked, they did not ride. My family's history on my father's side is one of being imprisoned or massacred. Sometimes both.

By all means, write it down to "progress". We went to war in foreign countries to stop their progress, conveniently ignoring our own brutality. The least we can do is give it a day of remembrance.
10b4me

Ice climber
Bishop/Flagstaff
Oct 10, 2013 - 10:46am PT
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/10/government-seeks-end-claims-1864s-sand-creek-massacre-151673

Somebody gets f*#ked again.


L, my forefathers also walked the Trail of Terrors
ron gomez

Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
Oct 10, 2013 - 11:02am PT
My Grandmother(Fathers side)is Mescalero, one of the wisest people I ever knew who taught me simple but solid lessons from very early years in my life. She, up until her passing in the 70's refused to modernize her way of living. She passed in a home made of adobe, no electricity, no running water and floors of dirt. It was the happiest and most peaceful place I could visit, I miss the simplicity and acceptance she tried to pass on to me.
What happened in the pass happened, for good or bad....perhaps the best way to atone for this is to remember it happened, learn from it and try the best we can to not let it continue to happen as it does.
Peace
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Oct 10, 2013 - 11:13am PT
All you whities, go back where you came from!

But I don't want to move back to the Bay Area.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 10, 2013 - 11:35am PT
passel

Nice.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 10, 2013 - 11:56am PT


From The Oatmeal.

The rest of the article can be found there.
John M

climber
Oct 10, 2013 - 12:01pm PT

What native american tribe ever mourned their enemies death?

I agree that genocide is abhorrent and I believe that Americans should acknowledge their own genocides, but then so should native americans. Indians were killing each other long before any white person ever showed up. Maybe the emphasis should be less on "those terrible white folks versus the noble native american" and more on seeing all forms of enslavery and genocide as wrong. Was it okay for Apaches to enslave and steal from mexicans? Was it okay for one native american tribe to wipe out another?

There are certainly grand and noble ideas and beliefs among the native americans, Just as there are grand and noble ideas among other nationalities and just as evil is found in all 4 corners of the earth. White people didn't do anything different then most native american tribes, they were just better at it.

I do agree that many americans think that their sh#t doesn't stink, but that includes native americans also believing that.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 10, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
I guess if you wrote more cognizantly and used better grammar, more people would listen to you Lance.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 10, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Dude you need a hug. This is a wee little thread on a wee little messageboard in a wee corner of the internet. Ain't nothin' gonna change, we're just jabbin' 'bout stuff.
Baggins

Boulder climber
Oct 10, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
"Native American Remembrance Day" - theyre not gone y'know! Not quite yet anyhow..
John M

climber
Oct 10, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
Do you really think my biggest problem with "getting people to listen" is my SPELLING????

Nope.. its your anger, impatience, superiority, bias and hatred that cause me to just scan your posts.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 10, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
I have typo's and mis-spelligns all the time - you can just ignore it when someone calls you out on it. No one here really cares.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 10, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
OH - and Columbus was a huge tw#t.

Back on topic!
Stimbo

Trad climber
Crowley Lake
Oct 10, 2013 - 01:41pm PT
Columbus Day, how we celebrate the "Birth of Tourism" in America.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 10, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
F'ing A, I want more Nutter around here. He may yell, but he makes a good point at times.

Stick around.

Edit: Sorry EKat, no offense meant to you, I just think Rox's ravings are a worthy counterpoint.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Oct 10, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
Hi eKat!!

and a first class prick with delusions of his proper place in the world.

Something ol' rok said about Columbus. Hmmmmm
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Oct 10, 2013 - 04:20pm PT
Go Redskins!


survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Oct 11, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
SWEET BABY JEEBUS!! He got dumped again?! And still goes on claiming that he's never been dumped?

Wow.

Like we say in AA Lance, keep coming back.....
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Oct 11, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
-has no opinion about Columbus Day-
Credit: command error

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 11, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
I dunno,, my family was partially here and partially arrivals shortly after Columbus. Always got along great with the Natives. My Irish side mixed with my choctaw side after the civil war . I personally have many Native friends who ive stuck up for with my career at stake. Never enslaved any one any where in my family that i know of. They werent southern plantation owners either. Most ran trade centers on trails west. So i have no regrets about what my family past and present have done in this country - they have all fought for it at one point or another. Im in no way going to assume guilt for every shytty thing done in history to any one any where.


I would add its the same blend of ideals and people that won world wars , invented the industrial revolution and sent man to the moon.


and yeah we slipped backwards the last 60 yrs or so.
10b4me

Ice climber
Bishop/Flagstaff
Oct 11, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#325059
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Oct 11, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
SWEET BABY JEEBUS!! He got dumped again?! And still goes on claiming that he's never been dumped?

Wow.

Like we say in AA Lance, keep coming back.....


C E R T I F I A B L E !
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 11, 2013 - 07:42pm PT
I love that Homeland Security poster even though the first violent confrontation was with vikings in AD 1000.
(also those Winchesters are 1873 or likely later)



So the Jews gave northern euros monotheism, public schools, representative democracy, the sabbath, and libraries, who then gave the Indians smallpox, who then gave the euros syphilis, who then gave the Jews the Holocaust.





Damn, did we get screwed in that exchange.
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