Discussion Topic |
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Sep 26, 2012 - 04:51pm PT
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Has Paul Ryan been around? You'd think he could afford his own rope.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 26, 2012 - 05:09pm PT
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Jeremy lad, Jeremy...what's wrong with that?
When does a fixed rope become booty?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Sep 26, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
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^^^
Actually, it WAS on a project. The dude who's rope was ganked is a local with a giant, proud ticklist there. How hard is it to not f*#k with other people's stuff? You go to a place where you are almost guaranteed to see other climbers on the walls around you, but take offense to seeing a rope? Seems passive aggressive and ridiculous to me.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 26, 2012 - 05:20pm PT
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Fixed-rope-debate/dude's-maco-ticklist/Boulder-sucks-big-hairy-balls aside....
a climber went up there, got to the top of the pitch and took something that belonged to someone else. That is stealing.
It was at the top of a 5.11 pitch. Probly not a noob.
My friend has no problem; just wants his rope back.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 26, 2012 - 05:28pm PT
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Actually, it WAS on a project. He was "projecting" an established line, with his rope sitting over a top 10 moderate people line up for, 200 yds from the parking lot.
I'm surprised it lasted more than an afternoon there before being taken.
EDIT - new detail - so this rope was "at the top of a 5.11 pitch" - ie, on the Genesis p1 (5.11a, PG) anchors for over a week? This is possibly the most climbed pitch of 11- in all of Eldo, if not the Front Range? What a dumb-ass!
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 26, 2012 - 05:41pm PT
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I actually don't know exactly where the rope was; point is someone had to actually climb to get to it. And by the threads on MP, it appears that this someone did so knowing who's rope it was.
So JLP, could you explain what exactly justifies thieft?
Maybe you should give the guy a call and talk to him about his ethics or how wise or unwise he was. I don't really care. I think it's wrong to steal and I would like to see him get his rope back.
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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Sep 26, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
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Leaving a rope on the first pitch of genesis is like leaving a rope on outer limits or something else at the cookie. Its a super busy area and that pitch gets done all the time. I wouldn't have taken it but if it was up there for a week the rangers might well have removed it. Its clearly in sight of the road and they don't like that kind of thing.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 26, 2012 - 05:50pm PT
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So Chief, I will ask you as well:
"What justifies thieft?!
edit: same question to spanky
Really folks, why is it OK to steal something?
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 26, 2012 - 05:52pm PT
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"What justifies thieft?! How about getting on the internet and basically telling the people complaining about it to fuk off?
We know nothing of the actual circumstances and motivation for the removal, but I'm 100% certain this did not help.
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:03pm PT
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I didn't really suggest that it was stolen. You can't justify the theft. I said that it was likely that rangers had removed it. Eldo's a touchy place though and there are definitely some locals who see it as their local area to look after so who knows.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:12pm PT
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Frank Zappa is still alive and climbing? Wow! It's not right to steal others sh#t, even if you feel that they are inconveniencing you with leaving their draws on the bolts or the rope on a route. If you know who it is and it disturbs you, say something.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:21pm PT
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Remember when Steph Davis cluttered up the Salathe Headwall with ropes so that she could proj (that term gives me shivers) it.?
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:26pm PT
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Genesis p1 (5.11a, PG) anchors for over a week? This is possibly the most climbed pitch of 11- in all of Eldo,
Thanks for the beta! sounds like my speeeeeed!
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Prod
Trad climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
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Eldo isn't about fixed lines hanging around for weeks. What does he think he is a Yosemite Elite?
Hey Locker, Were my shoes there by chance?
Prod.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:28pm PT
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Jump on it Nature, it's sweet....great pro and short crux.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
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Yosemite effete did you say?
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Prod
Trad climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
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Yosemite effete did you say?
^^^ Yes in a round about way. Nice word usage Jim.
Prod.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:33pm PT
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Wow, so JLP thinks it's ok to steal.
Chief seems to think it's ok as well.
He took the hint from some internet people, went up there the next morning to remove it, and it had been stolen. So it sounds like if you mouth off to anonymous interneters you deserve to have your rope ripped off.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 26, 2012 - 06:49pm PT
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After 24 hrs, it's considered abandon.
The "thief" could not be charged.
You could argue "climber code", but your boy completely f'd that up too.
ABANDONED PROPERTY
F It shall be unlawful to leave any personal property unattended
on land or water under the control of the Division of Parks and
Outdoor Recreation for more than twenty-four (24) hours.
1. If such property is left unattended for more than twenty-four
(24) hours, it will be considered abandoned.
2. Removal and storage will be at the expense of the owner.
3. All abandoned personal property, other than motor vehicles,
which is not claimed within six months shall be sold for
cash to the highest bidder at a public auction [....]
http://www.parks.state.co.us/SiteCollectionImages/parks/Programs/BoatingProgram/2012_LandWater_Regs.pdf
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kennyt
climber
Woodfords,California
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
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Buy a new rope pussies!
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
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So the rope was hanging on Leviticus, a route that has had no known second ascent in over 25 years. He had gone to extra effort to make sure the rope was not hanging in the way of Genesis. The thief either had to mini-traxion up 13a or jumar the rope the anchor. "My boy" reported it to the park.
Bottom line is someone didn't like his ethics/internet attitude and decided to steal his rope and draws.
Lame.
Sounds like JLP and Chief have a promising career in law enforcement.
Cosmic, make yourself at home!
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
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Jump on it Nature, it's sweet....great pro and short crux.
who can climb with me saturday?
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Prod
Trad climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:20pm PT
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Yo Nature,
I'll be in frickin Michigan, but Angelo is always looking for partners and he lives in Eldo.
Prod.
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Roadie
Trad climber
Bishop, Ca
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:28pm PT
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So JLP's from Boulder. Thank God! One Chief in Bishop is one too many. Dicks!
Mr. Zappa, its been too long, you should come visit. R
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:30pm PT
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Was Lindsay Lohan in Eldo recently?
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labrat
Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
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"Lame." Agreed
"Sounds like JLP and Chief have a promising career in law enforcement." x2
Hope he gets his rope and draws back.
Erik
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nature
climber
Boulder, CO
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
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We had dinner after the photo shoot.
she doesn't understand tallent.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:35pm PT
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pretty silly to see a community hating on itself like this...
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hb81
climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:37pm PT
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Was Lindsay Lohan in Eldo recently?
Stolen rope, not stolen dope.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:45pm PT
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Have checked with Paul Ryan. He does not have it.
He says to please post a picture of what the missing rope looks like, he's out and about a lot and will keep an eye peeled.
He also suggested that the owner just borrow the money from his (not Ryan's, they're dead) parents for a brand new rope.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 26, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
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It's a mirical that the govt lets us climb their rocks and put bolts in their rocks. leaveing fixed draws and ropes is incredibly short sighted. It draws attention to our impact on the area. Anyone that leaves fixed draws and ropes is endangering the access for everyone.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Sep 26, 2012 - 08:15pm PT
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3. All abandoned personal property, other than motor vehicles,
which is not claimed within six months shall be sold for
cash to the highest bidder at a public auction [....]
Hmmm, the above language suggests that abandoned property is not necessarily "finders keepers"; rather, it can be claimed for six months, and if it isn't it gets sold. Admittedly, this could be ambiguous when the "abandoned" property is picked up by a third party rather than by the park. But I'm not so sure that the "thief" is legally in the clear.
Since I wasted time posting, for whatever reason, I'll put in my $.02. (1) The "thief" should give the rope back, (2) the owner's "f*#k you" attitude when engaging in an activity that is both prohibited by park rules and at least questionable by standard climber ethics didn't seem too bright.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Sep 26, 2012 - 08:55pm PT
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It wasn't stolen, it was abandoned.
After 24 hrs it's considered booty, doesn't matter who you are or what the project might be.
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crasic
climber
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Sep 26, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
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After 24 hours of leaving it unattended,
I'm assuming, if he's projecting it, that he's there daily?
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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Sep 26, 2012 - 09:15pm PT
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Have checked with Paul Ryan. He does not have it.
Paul Ryan solos all of his fourteeners . . . don't need no stinkin' rope!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 26, 2012 - 09:20pm PT
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The rope,whether you consider it stolen or not, is one issue; fixed ropes left at super popular climbing areas is another. Cigarette butts are another thing that I don't like to see where I climb. Did I mention unattended dogs?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Sep 26, 2012 - 10:22pm PT
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since when does cleaning up litter become stealing?
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Sep 26, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
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Is there any evidence that there was a rope?
If so, is there any evidence it belonged to the guy claiming it as his?
How old was the rope if it existed?
Was if fully depreciated?
Will his home-owners or renters insurance cover it?
Who is responsible for the phrase "hang myself if I get enough rope"?
Did Ali actually use a rope? I mean when he rope-a-doped?
If I leave my car at the airport lot, is it therefore unattended and eligible for "legitimate theft"?
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Sep 27, 2012 - 12:09am PT
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party on Garth!
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Sep 27, 2012 - 12:36am PT
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Just a minute, can we put you on speaker phone?
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 27, 2012 - 12:13pm PT
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A little more info, since some of the above did not read.
The rope was hanging on Leviticus and Trinity Cracks variation; both are seldom done. The route is 12+ or so.
The climber had been on the rope every day; the rope was not unattended for longer than 24 hours.
So someone jumared up his rope and stole it and his gear because they didn't like his attitude.
Who's the "dumb-ass", JLP?
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 27, 2012 - 12:33pm PT
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^^^Well since it was raining at the time it's the most logical assumption.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 27, 2012 - 12:45pm PT
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The climber had been on the rope every day; the rope was not unattended for longer than 24 hours. Wow - he can mini trax @ 12+ every day for a week with no rest days, but can't seem to actually lead it any day of the week - with nobody chiming in anywhere to say they saw the rope occupied, ever. That sounds like ... BS.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 12:57pm PT
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Just give him his fricken rope back and be done with it.
Why all this stupid bullsh!t here.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Sep 27, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
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You douchnozzle thief supporters seem to think it could be related to leaving it hanging. But the more likely scenario is that it was a piece of common low life sh#t as#@&%e who has previously broken into cars and tents and stolen backpacks, which were also left unattended at the base of climbs - dumbf*#ks, and he just stole it cause HE'S A F*#KING LOWLIFE PIECE OF SH#T THIEF. That's what thieves do. They steal. They are piece of sh#t low life criminals and are thieves. That and it was easier and safer to nab than busting into a car and stealing someones stuff.
Just give him his fricken rope back and be done with it.
Nice sediment and I agree but it won't happen if the thief was just a F*#KING LOWLIFE PIECE OF SH#T COMMON THIEF. I can only hope and pray that those who support such bullshit also find yourself on the receiving end of this. Oh, you left your tent unattended with your sleeping bag in it? Oh, you left your wallet unattended inside of your house? Oh, you left your tent in a meadow. Oh, you left a pack at a base of a route unattended? Tough titty.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Sep 27, 2012 - 01:30pm PT
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I bet it was greg from mountain project that stole it, trying to get some of us to join Mountain Project. Pretty sure.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 27, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
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FrankZ sounds like a good friend to have, getting on here and relaying all this information and defending it. Where's EDJ? He seemed to do such a marvelous job of presenting himself over on MP.com, why not here? Why are you here doing it for him?
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Sep 27, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
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Just give him his fricken rope back and be done with it.
Why all this stupid bullsh!t here.
America.
"Slack! Ya dipstick."
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o-man
Social climber
Paia,Maui,HI
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Sep 27, 2012 - 02:43pm PT
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This case is being argued in two different states.
This should go to the Super-Ream court for a ruling.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:02pm PT
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Wow, getting up toward 100 posts here.
It wasn't stolen, it was abandoned.
After 24 hrs it's considered booty, doesn't matter who you are or what the project might be.
1) I'm not for leaving ropes on things for months on end.
2) But I call bullshit on the statement above. 24 hrs of fixed rope has NEVER equaled booty in any place I've ever climbed.
3) Who you are, and what the project is has a ton to do with it. BITD, if Kauk or Bachar or many others had a rope on some project for a couple days, no one would dream of stealing it.
4) Who here has left fixed ropes before? I had lines on the bottom of Pacific Ocean wall for a week, and that was only a measly 9th ascent or something.
5)Harding and many contemporaries left fixed ropes for long periods.
Alan Watts and company left ropes draped all over Smith during "the revolution" Nobody stole their sh#t......
I think it has everything to do with local politics and egos, not a fixed line.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:08pm PT
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Survival, i beg to differ with you. Who you are and what project you are on should make ABSOLUTELY NO difference. The same standards should apply to everyone, and we wonder why elite climbers often end up with a sense of entiltlement.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
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Survival, Eldo is different than Yosemite.
It's a State Park that has already been regulated to death as far as climbing goes. Personally I really don't care just stating it's not wise to push the basic rules the State park has on such a highly visible crag.
If this was on SoBo or Micky Mouse Wall I doubt it would have resulted in this amount of butthurt and the rope would still be there.
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this just in
climber
north fork
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
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Right on que cosmic. HAHAHAHA
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
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The same standards should apply to everyone, and we wonder why elite climbers often end up with a sense of entiltlement.
Jim, I agree, but the key word in your post is "should". If a nasty rude loud mouth from New Jersey left a rope up, and you or Kauk left a rope up nearby, there would be a difference. That's the only point I was trying to make.
Actually, the real point had to do with the 24 hour red light. No one would expect their rope to be legal booty 24 hours later.
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:25pm PT
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You've been out in the boonies to long Survival where climbers are still nice to each other.
This is Boulder we're talking about where people barely even say hello to each other at the crags or boulders. If you leave anything, don't expect it to be there tomorrow.
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Dickbob
climber
Westminster Colorado
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:37pm PT
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My nine year old daughter went through a faze a while back where we had to teach her to not do things as mellow as plucking leaves of off the neighbors trees. Those leaves are not our leaves. That lawn is not our lawn, you should not walk on it. Sucks to live in that extreme of a world but I do. She is young but I am positive she would never touch anything that is not hers. Pretty basic really..
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
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Is this guy Greg@ serious? Really:
"Have you had enough of this ill-mannered and obnoxious treatment after sharing such an irksome and unsettling experience? "
His site sounds like the climbing forum equivalent of sharia law. No thanks.
Greg, are women allowed to post on your site?
Someone tell me he's joking.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
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This is Boulder we're talking about where people barely even say hello to each other at the crags or boulders.
Ooops, I forgot!
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Sep 27, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
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Thank gawd Jeremy didn't treat me like the old sh#t that I am.
He just gave me sh#t about the age of my gear and then put me on belay....
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Fish Boy
Trad climber
Vancouver
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Sep 27, 2012 - 05:51pm PT
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This "Greg @" alias was first used on Teton Gravity Forums. TGR is a highly unmoderated ski forum full of hilarious peeps and lots of porn. There is another ski forum called Alpinezone, which is heavily moderated and family friendly. Greg used to invite people to join Alpinezone all the time, this is just a send up of that.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
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The dude asked the park rangers if anyone had turned it in.
The rope was fixed on the Leviticus anchor/Genesis crux/Trinity cracks variation, and was well out of the way of Genesis pitch 1. Dude was up there every day the rope was fixed. It was clearly not abandoned. The anchor on Leviticus is not easy to get to. I've been climbing in Eldo for 20 years; never been there. Anyone done that route and been there?
The only "local politics" were those expressed on MP by people with Internet names. Nobody talked to him in person. He's climbed in Eldo for 25 years and probably done more routes there than anyone. He was just out having a good time on a route he had never done.
I just want him to get his rope back and am curious who stole it and what their story is.
I don't think he did anything wrong except answer to a thread on the Internet. Sure, he was a wise-ass, but he's a wise-ass, and who takes unnamed internet people seriously anyway?
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:05pm PT
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Some meat jerkers tried to steal shippoopi's TR rig placed at the ramp on right ski track in josh.
He popped around the corner, 3rd classing up to pull the anchor and was all like:
"WTF BRO?"
Oh sorry, thought it was abandon?
NO WAY BRO, now put my sh#t back!@!@
All while we were drinking beers 40 feet below.
Of note, If I ever found out who took ANY of my in-situ gear, I would make sure they were not able to leave the crag. Either driving or walking.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:13pm PT
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Maybe it's just me, but I think that leaving gear at crags is lame.
I can understand draws on a really steep route, but it bugs to see ropes hanging around. Yeah it takes time to hang 'em, and yeah in the winter, folks like to have the TR solo laps pre-rigged. But still, don't be upset if there are folks out there who don't buy into having litter at the crags. And stuff left around overnight is just that, IMO.
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tbones
Sport climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:50pm PT
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Uh oh this is quickly deteriorating into the same thing as Mountain Project. If any of you want to be entertained head over there and read up.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 27, 2012 - 06:57pm PT
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...and who takes unnamed internet people seriously anyway? That really is the beauty of all this.
I don't like thieves either. However, in this case, I believe the actions of whoever took the rope are "less bad" than EDJ's.
Given all the details, it doesn't seem the rope was taken out of pure greed, yet it was left there out of pure selfishness and EDJ has been unrepentant about it.
I'm not opposed to the $2-300 ding, to set an example for him and the community. It's pretty much the same money as a Wyoming I-80 20+ over speeding ticket.
If I was in possession of the rope (I'm not), I'd toss it in the used rope bin at the BRC. I have no use for other people's things, and I don't think he has an inherent right to know who did it or what happened to it - he abandon it, leaving no note or anything. A week's a week, no matter how you want to spin it. I don't think leaving your sh#t at the crags for a week, then feeling entitled about it, is acceptable.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Sep 27, 2012 - 09:13pm PT
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Hankster. When you were head pointing those scarefests did you leave fixed ropes up?
Just curious. And my money is on you for the fight.
Prod.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 27, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
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LADIES and gentlemen...announcing the world's most famous, make that infamous, and currently missing, rope....hold your breath (drum roll, angels serenading) THE Genesis Rope, right here (somewhere) in (climbing central) the Peoples Republic of Boulder.
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miwuksurfer
Social climber
Mi-Wuk
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Sep 27, 2012 - 10:07pm PT
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Jesus Christ, nobody in Boulder, CO has an old rope this dude can use to TR solo?
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Sep 27, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
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1st world prancer problem.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Sep 27, 2012 - 11:07pm PT
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Ol' Skool
Trad climber
Oakhurst, CA
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Sep 28, 2012 - 07:24am PT
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wbw, lemme get this straight-
they stole a sling, 2 biners and a nut... and left two cams?
Retail values and my mad Colombo skills tell me we're dealing with a noob here... It coulda been worse- be glad you weren't left hung out to dry on one cheap piece.
There's a special room in hell for gear thieves.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
80' from the Hankster
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Sep 28, 2012 - 11:28am PT
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Dude reports missing rope to Rangers.
Rangers have seen rope on climb.
Rangers see Dude up on climb.
Rangers know rope belongs to Dude and he is using it.
Dude has done nothing wrong.
He knows this. Rangers know this.
Everyone knows this (except Chief and JLP, who really, really, really want to believe Dude did something wrong...).
Rangers did not pull the rope.
They are not pleased that someone stole rope.
Thief has upset Dude.
Thief has upset Rangers.
People see things in Eldo.
People read forums.
People do not like thieves.
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Prod
Trad climber
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Sep 28, 2012 - 11:37am PT
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WBW,
Are you saying that you were climbing Blind Faith when this gear was stolen? Where were you on the route that you cound not see the anchor? Wow that is f*#ked up. Glad you are alive.
Hankster etal,
Has projecting on in-situ gear ever been acceptable behavior in Eldo?
Prod.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Sep 28, 2012 - 11:50am PT
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If he was so in the right, what not leave a note on the rope with a phone number?
How should the person who took it down be compensated for their time?
A ranger on your side means you now have 3 people in your camp. Everyone else including Donini is NOT in your camp - enough said there. Keep living the fantasy, though.
Keep leaving ropes out there as well. Maybe I'll score the next one. I prefer Sterling 9.4-9.8, though the BW ropes in the same size are okay, too. Be a dude and see if you can accommodate that.
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| Messages 1 - 74 of total 74 in this topic |
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